Floyd Mayweather vs Sugar Ray Robinson, P4P

[slystaff]

What happens here?

We all know that SRR is creditted as being the best fighter ever P4P, and we know that he'll have this title for all eternity.

But thinking minds know that the reason for this is merely because he was the first fighter with this designation. Therefore it seems to belong to him by default.

Robinson was hailed becase he was the first of his kind: a slick black fighter who moved (danced) and threw combinations with fast hands and power.

Doesn't mean he was unbeatable

If Jesse Owens wasn't timed, those who saw him run or watched tapes of him would maintain to this day that he would have beaten Mo Green, Justin Gatlin, Carl Lewis etc. But he WAS timed and we know as a result of this that he wouldn't have.

In any event...back to the matchup.

Floyd vs Ray.

Ray is more powerful than Floyd, higher workrate and throws better and more consistent combinations.

Floyd is smarter than Ray and more elusive, better mid fight adaptability and with quicker reflexes.

Tough fight for both fighters.


I like Floyd by close decision in a tough one.

[CleanYourClock]

Why P4P ?
Why not just match them up at Welter since you think Floyd is so great ...

I just find it funny that Floyd has not beaten an A-class fighter yet and you match him Vs Robinson ....
Anyway at Welter , since Flyd is hittable and Robinson hit like a freight train , I say Robinson KO's Floyd in 5 rounds or batters him like Hopkins did to Joppy ....

Also on a side note , Owens was timed with someone clicking a stop watch . The newer guys you mentioned are timed with chip timing or barcode ....

[whiskey]

Robinson was hailed becase he was the first of his kind: a slick black fighter who moved (danced) and threw combinations with fast hands and power.



Robinson wasn't hailed because he was a "slick black fighter who moved". He was hailed because he could do EVERYTHING. Robinson had great power, solid chin boxing ability, stamina, movement.... basically you name it. Nobody saw a fighter with all those qualities in one fighter.

[lb 4 lb]

Robinson wasn't hailed because he was a "slick black fighter who moved". He was hailed because he could do EVERYTHING. Robinson had great power, solid chin boxing ability, stamina, movement.... basically you name it. Nobody saw a fighter with all those qualities in one fighter.
Yeah, nobody saw that back then, but how great would he be in this day and age. Watching footage of him now, he doesn't look as impressive or even as fast as guys like RJJ.

By the way, why make a MM of a guy at p4p when there has never been any footage of him at his best? :nixweiss:

[Free Ike]

P4P doesn't exist so SRR by kayo. He was much bigger, faster, hit harder, etc. PBF is a great fighter, but this is a mismatch.

[Rubio MHS]

P4P doesn't exist so SRR by kayo. He was much bigger, faster, hit harder, etc. PBF is a great fighter, but this is a mismatch.You're acting like Robinson didn't have his weaknesses. Don't forget how afraid he was of Charley Burley. A straight up match at 135, 140 or 147 would be pretty interesting. I agree about this pound-for-pound nonsense.

[Free Ike]

You're acting like Robinson didn't have his weaknesses. Don't forget how afraid he was of Charley Burley. A straight up match at 135, 140 or 147 would be pretty interesting. I agree about this pound-for-pound nonsense.
Ok, then I guess P4P is true then. My mistake.

[puerto rock]

Robinson via UD. I think his infighting is the difference here. Mayweather could probably hold his own from the outside but Robby was just too good and infighter and thus he would go after Floyd. Robinson had a hand speed edge as well.

[CleanYourClock]

Robinson via UD. I think his infighting is the difference here. Mayweather could probably hold his own from the outside but Robby was just too good and infighter and thus he would go after Floyd. Robinson had a hand speed edge as well.

Robinson would hit Floyd so hard , Floyd would be running for dear life ...

[slystaff]

Robinson would hit Floyd so hard , Floyd would be running for dear life ...

Yep. Just like Turpin in Robinson's first fight...

[Free Ike]

Robinson would hit Floyd so hard , Floyd would be running for dear life ...
I think PBF is a great fighter, but he hasn't proven it yet. Beating Oscar would prove his greatness, but losing to Oscar doesn't disprove it. PBF is past his ideal weight. He beat the linear champion at WW, but Baldomir is very skilless, but I don't want to diminsh his shutout win. It was a good win, but still PBF has not fought a single WW who had any skill yet. Even at 135, he went life and death with a completely skilless bum in Jose Luis Castillo. I think SRR career at WW and Middleweight show us allot more than PBF has.

[CleanYourClock]

Yep. Just like Turpin in Robinson's first fight...

:jester: :jester: Robinson has more Knock Outs then Floyd & Oscar have had total fights and you want to bring up Turpin ...

So in other words you are estimating the winner of this fight on the assumption that Robinson would be having a bad day when he fought Floyd ...:jester:

[CleanYourClock]

I think PBF is a great fighter, but he hasn't proven it yet. Beating Oscar would prove his greatness, but losing to Oscar doesn't disprove it. PBF is past his ideal weight. He beat the linear champion at WW, but Baldomir is very skilless, but I don't want to diminsh his shutout win. It was a good win, but still PBF has not fought a single WW who had any skill yet. Even at 135, he went life and death with a completely skilless bum in Jose Luis Castillo. I think SRR career at WW and Middleweight show us allot more than PBF has.

Welter weight ??? How about also the fact he never fought an A-class fighter at any weight ..

[Free Ike]

Welter weight ??? How about also the fact he never fought an A-class fighter at any weight ..
That's a bit unfair. His win over Corrales was huge at the time. Many people thought this was a pick 'em and PBF didn't lose a single second of that fight. Who would you have liked him to fight who was in his division and he didn't, Hatton or Cotto. Are they "A" level fighters? Zu was injured and old when PBF was at 140. If PBF had beaten Zu many people would havve said oh he was oft-injured and old. Many people give him credit for Castillo, but to me that is the only blemish on his record. Castillo is a skilless bum and PBF should have stopped him twice

[CleanYourClock]

That's a bit unfair. His win over Corrales was huge at the time. Many people thought this was a pick 'em and PBF didn't lose a single second of that fight. Who would you have liked him to fight who was in his division and he didn't, Hatton or Cotto. Are they "A" level fighters? Zu was injured and old when PBF was at 140. If PBF had beaten Zu many people would havve said oh he was oft-injured and old. Many people give him credit for Castillo, but to me that is the only blemish on his record. Castillo is a skilless bum and PBF should have stopped him twice

Well , I never said it was HIS fault but , it is what it is ...
He beat a B-class fighter in Corrales that was going through personal difficulties at the time ... OK , good win but not a great or even a really good win ... Allot of people were calling the Lacy/Calzaghe a pick'em fight as well.

IMO Corrales and Castillo together made an A-CLASS fight but , that should not be mistaken as them being A-class fighters . They are B-class fighters and just like C-class fighters Gatti/Ward , they made an A-class fight between themselves ...

[jaws1216]

typical ridiculous Sly topic...

How about Rock Allen versus Jake Lamotta

Miguel Cotto versus Niccholino Locche?

wait ten years, then lets have this discussion

[Erratic]

What happens here?

We all know that SRR is creditted as being the best fighter ever P4P, and we know that he'll have this title for all eternity.

But thinking minds know that the reason for this is merely because he was the first fighter with this designation. Therefore it seems to belong to him by default.

Robinson was hailed becase he was the first of his kind: a slick black fighter who moved (danced) and threw combinations with fast hands and power.

Doesn't mean he was unbeatable

If Jesse Owens wasn't timed, those who saw him run or watched tapes of him would maintain to this day that he would have beaten Mo Green, Justin Gatlin, Carl Lewis etc. But he WAS timed and we know as a result of this that he wouldn't have.

In any event...back to the matchup.

Floyd vs Ray.

Ray is more powerful than Floyd, higher workrate and throws better and more consistent combinations.

Floyd is smarter than Ray and more elusive, better mid fight adaptability and with quicker reflexes.

Tough fight for both fighters.


I like Floyd by close decision in a tough one.

Who don't you pick Mayweather over?

[Neil]

i love all the mythical matchups involving ray robinson, a guy no one under the age of 70 ever really saw at his prime weight.

[Erratic]

i love all the mythical matchups involving ray robinson, a guy no one under the age of 70 ever really saw at his prime weight.

There's some footage of him at welter.

[Rubio MHS]

What happens here?

We all know that SRR is creditted as being the best fighter ever P4P, and we know that he'll have this title for all eternity.

But thinking minds know that the reason for this is merely because he was the first fighter with this designation. Therefore it seems to belong to him by default.Knowing minds are aware that he wasn't the first fighter with this designation. Tony Canzoneri was called the best fighter in the world, pound-for-pound, and before that, Tex Rickard said that Abe Attell was the greatest fighter ever, pound-for-pound.
There's some footage of him at welter.I have two of his amateur fights on my hard drive.

[slystaff]

typical ridiculous Sly topic...

How about Rock Allen versus Jake Lamotta

Miguel Cotto versus Niccholino Locche?

wait ten years, then lets have this discussion

Don't let me start on you again.

We don't have to wait ten fucking years to have this discussion. Floyd is in his prime now and we know what he's capable of. He doesn't have to retire first before being matched up with a legend you ignorant little boy...

[?H?L?QU?L?$]

Who don't you pick Mayweather over?
Roy Jones Jr and Ali, the best EVER! :2:

[slystaff]

Who don't you pick Mayweather over?

Roy Jones Jr and Ali, the best EVER! :2:

word

[Rubio MHS]

typical ridiculous Sly topic...

How about Rock Allen versus Jake Lamotta

Miguel Cotto versus Niccholino Locche?

wait ten years, then lets have this discussionIt won't take 10 years to figure out that Cotto would have to be really, really lucky to beat Loche. Cotto's predictable offense would be easy pickings for the indefatiguable Loche. It would look like Hopkins-Trinidad, and probably end the same way.

[jaws1216]

Don't let me start on you again.

We don't have to wait ten fucking years to have this discussion. Floyd is in his prime now and we know what he's capable of. He doesn't have to retire first before being matched up with a legend you ignorant little boy...

How do you think people talked about Mike Tyson in 1989 against anyone in history?

In 1979/1980 before the Duran/Leonard rematch Duran was listed as one of the greatest welterweights ever by Ring Magazine.

This is yet another stupid topic because Floyd's career isn't over, and there are aspects of his game that have never been tested. Of course you being blessed with the belief that Roy is one of the greatest ever has no respect for knowledge of time showing and proving greatness.

Robinson was never knocked out, in 345983 fights. At 40+ he wasn't getting KO'd, and in that he showed his ability to be durable. Mayweather has never had to fight someone that is a great fighter in their prime. He's never fought anyone that we would consider a great champion at any weight.

Comparing the two now shows an ineptitude and stupidity that is flagrant in every other stupid fucking thing you say on here.

[slystaff]

Comparing the two now shows an ineptitude and stupidity that is flagrant in every other stupid fucking thing you say on here.

Pot calling the kettle black.