FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR VS THOMAS HEARNS AT 147 [Archive]

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03-30-2007, 12:17 PM

Who wins?

Erratic

03-30-2007, 12:37 PM

Tommy.

CleanYourClock

03-30-2007, 01:23 PM

Alabama_Man

03-30-2007, 01:39 PM

Hearns easy. Too big, too strong, and that right hand if it lands would put any welterweight to sleep.

steve_dave

03-30-2007, 03:47 PM

Hearns for sure... probably by KO.

Xplosive

03-30-2007, 04:34 PM

Love Floyd, but I have a hard time seeing him last the distance with Tommy at 147. Hearns would take him out mid-to-late IMO.

REEDsART

03-30-2007, 05:54 PM

Not even 1nce was Tommy Hearns OUTBOXED by an Opponent...Floyd's ONLY Chance would B to OUTBOX Hearns...

Hearns would TOWER over Floyd,he'd have about 2-3 MILES N Reach & He'd B the QUICKEST,HARDEST Punching Fighter Floyd's EVER Fought...

STYLES Make Fights & Hearns' Style is ALL WRONG for Floyd...

Either Floyd EVADES Punishment En Route to a Unanimous Decision LOSS or Floyd Gets STRETCHED N about 7 or 8 Rounds...

REED:blobbox:

Erratic

03-30-2007, 06:33 PM

CleanYourClock

03-30-2007, 06:38 PM

Floyd is in the top three at 130.

Arguello, Mayweather, and Chavez...Or you can put Nelson in there too.

I guess you are entitled to your opinion. However there have been allot of fighters that fought at or around 130 throughout history.
I think if you researched it a bit , you might change your mind ..

BTW , what elite fighters did Floyd beat at 130 to make you think this ?
I didn't see any on his record ..

Erratic

03-30-2007, 06:41 PM

I guess you are entitled to your opinion. However there have been allot of fighters that fought at or around 130 throughout history.
I think if you researched it a bit , you might change your mind ..

BTW , what elite fighters did Floyd beat at 130 to make you think this ?
I didn't see any on his record ..

What exactly do you consider elite?

If you're the best fighters around that weight class, you're elite, IMO. Genaro Hernanez was considered the top 130 lb fighter at the time. I don't know about The Ring, but I have the issues at home of KO magazine where Hernandez was ranked #11 on the p4p list in 1998 shortly before he fought PBF. Diego Corrales was ranked #5 p4p on the year end issue of The Ring with Felix Trinidad on the cover, winning Fighter of the Year for 2000, right before Corrales fought PBF.

I have researched it, tell me who should be ranked higher. Forget ten, name me five fighters who deserved to be ranked higher at junior lightweights. The top five 130 lb fighters are probably (in no order) PBF, Arguello, Nelson, JCC, and Serrano.

Ugotabe Kidding

03-30-2007, 06:48 PM

CleanYourClock

03-30-2007, 07:02 PM

What exactly do you consider elite?

If you're the best fighters around that weight class, you're elite, IMO. Genaro Hernanez was considered the top 130 lb fighter at the time. I don't know about The Ring, but I have the issues at home of KO magazine where Hernandez was ranked #11 on the p4p list in 1998 shortly before he fought PBF. Diego Corrales was ranked #5 p4p on the year end issue of The Ring with Felix Trinidad on the cover, winning Fighter of the Year for 2000, right before Corrales fought PBF.

I have researched it, tell me who should be ranked higher. Forget ten, name me five fighters who deserved to be ranked higher at junior lightweights. The top five 130 lb fighters are probably (in no order) PBF, Arguello, Nelson, JCC, and Serrano.

Just because you are the best in your division at the time does not make you elite. Baldomir , Gatti at one point , so on and so fourth. You can throw in most of the recent heavyweight champs as well ...

Being on top just doesn't make you elite ...
Hernandez and Corrales are both B-class fighters ...

Floyd had an impressive and great run at 130 but not enough to even come close to being in the top 3 all time list.
It might not be his fault. He was there at a point in time where there were no fellow greats for him to fight ....
However , it is what it is ... Also if Floyd does not fight fellow greats , how can we consider him great ? Allot of fighters look the part when they aren't fighting elite fighters.
The up coming Oscar fight will be the first time Floyd is stepping into the ring with an elite fighter ...
Even if he loses , if he gives a good account of himself and continues to fight the same caliber of opponent after Oscar , then he can be considered for greatness ...

Erratic

03-30-2007, 07:10 PM

Just because you are the best in your division at the time does not make you elite. Baldomir , Gatti at one point , so on and so fourth. You can throw in most of the recent heavyweight champs as well ...

Being on top just doesn't make you elite ...
Hernandez and Corrales are both B-class fighters ...

Floyd had an impressive and great run at 130 but not enough to even come close to being in the top 3 all time list.
It might not be his fault. He was there at a point in time where there were no fellow greats for him to fight ....
However , it is what it is ... Also if Floyd does not fight fellow greats , how can we consider him great ? Allot of fighters look the part when they aren't fighting elite fighters.
The up coming Oscar fight will be the first time Floyd is stepping into the ring with an elite fighter ...
Even if he loses , if he gives a good account of himself and continues to fight the same caliber of opponent after Oscar , then he can be considered for greatness ...

What fellow greats did the other great 130 lb fighters beat?

Julio Cesar Chavez beat Mario Martinez for a vacant 130 lb. belt. He squeaked by Juan Laporte and win another close fight over Rocky Lockridge. He beat some other contenders like PBF"s uncle and Ruben Castillo. What great did Chavez beat?

What great did Alexis Arguello beat at 130? The best guy he beat at 130 was probably Alfredo Escalera, who shouldn't have even been a champion at the time since Tyrone Everett got bended over on a table (he was used to doing that) by the judges. Ruben Castillo was a very good fighter, but no great. Same goes for the tough Bazooka Limon and Bobby Chacon.

What great did Azumah Nelson beat at 130? He won the vacant belt against Mario Martinez in a controversial decision, was given hell by Suarez before hitting him after the bell. What, J.J. Leija and Gabe Ruelas were great fighters? Jeff Fenech was trying to win in his fourth weight class and should have gotten it the first time if the judges weren't blind or corrupt.

Furthermore, the whole logic of having to beat a great to be one makes no sense because you have to start somewhere. For instance, all you do is go on and on and say "who did he beat?". Felix Trinidad's best opponents before fighting Oscar were Oba Carr, Yori Boy Campas, and a shot coked-out Pea. But does anyone say that Tito was not a great fighter at that time? Or in his career? There's not many great fighters around. There's plenty of good and very good ones, and guys who beat them for a consistent period become great. Look at J.C. Chavez. His best wins were probably Rosario and Taylor. Who did they beat to become great? Ramirez, Bramble, McGirt? Look at Pernell Whitaker. He was great even before "drawing" with Chavez. He had beat mainly "good" but not "great" fighters except for Nelson who was above his best weight and on the downside anyway.

Again, name me these ten guys who should rank ahead of Floyd at 130. Or name me five.

Tam Tam

03-30-2007, 07:23 PM

1. Alexis Arguello
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Azumah Nelson
4. Kid Chocolate
5. Floyd Mayweather
6. Sandy Saddler
7. Flash Elorde
8. Johnny Dundee
9. Alfredo Escelara
10. Sam Serrano
11. Hector Camacho
12. Brian Mitchell
13. Todd Morgan
14. Benny Bass
15. Bobby Chacon
16. Rocky Lockridge
17. Cornelius-Boza Edwards
18. Diego Corrales
19. Genaro Hernandez
20. Tyrone Everett

cdogg187

03-30-2007, 08:51 PM

REEDsART

03-31-2007, 12:56 AM

CleanYourClock

04-02-2007, 12:49 PM

What fellow greats did the other great 130 lb fighters beat?

Julio Cesar Chavez beat Mario Martinez for a vacant 130 lb. belt. He squeaked by Juan Laporte and win another close fight over Rocky Lockridge. He beat some other contenders like PBF"s uncle and Ruben Castillo. What great did Chavez beat?

What great did Alexis Arguello beat at 130? The best guy he beat at 130 was probably Alfredo Escalera, who shouldn't have even been a champion at the time since Tyrone Everett got bended over on a table (he was used to doing that) by the judges. Ruben Castillo was a very good fighter, but no great. Same goes for the tough Bazooka Limon and Bobby Chacon.

What great did Azumah Nelson beat at 130? He won the vacant belt against Mario Martinez in a controversial decision, was given hell by Suarez before hitting him after the bell. What, J.J. Leija and Gabe Ruelas were great fighters? Jeff Fenech was trying to win in his fourth weight class and should have gotten it the first time if the judges weren't blind or corrupt.

Furthermore, the whole logic of having to beat a great to be one makes no sense because you have to start somewhere. For instance, all you do is go on and on and say "who did he beat?". Felix Trinidad's best opponents before fighting Oscar were Oba Carr, Yori Boy Campas, and a shot coked-out Pea. But does anyone say that Tito was not a great fighter at that time? Or in his career? There's not many great fighters around. There's plenty of good and very good ones, and guys who beat them for a consistent period become great. Look at J.C. Chavez. His best wins were probably Rosario and Taylor. Who did they beat to become great? Ramirez, Bramble, McGirt? Look at Pernell Whitaker. He was great even before "drawing" with Chavez. He had beat mainly "good" but not "great" fighters except for Nelson who was above his best weight and on the downside anyway.

Again, name me these ten guys who should rank ahead of Floyd at 130. Or name me five.

Yeah but , I never propped any of those fighters up at 130 ...
Also , they have all fought fellow greats . Maybe not at 130 but , they have atleast fought them.
Floyd has not done that as of this moment ...

Erratic

04-02-2007, 01:23 PM

Yeah but , I never propped any of those fighters up at 130 ...
Also , they have all fought fellow greats . Maybe not at 130 but , they have atleast fought them.
Floyd has not done that as of this moment ...

Huh?

You said Floyd was not top ten at any weight class he's fought in. I'm asking you to name these ten guys who rank higher at 130 lbs.

CleanYourClock

04-02-2007, 02:15 PM

Huh?

You said Floyd was not top ten at any weight class he's fought in. I'm asking you to name these ten guys who rank higher at 130 lbs.

My point was that the other fighters you mentioned that were great that did not fight other greats at 130 atleast went on to fight other greats even if it wasn't at 130.
In other words , maybe they didn't fight the best at 130 but , they went on to fight some of the best at higher weight classes.
In turn this might bump them up in the rankings because even though they may have only beaten B-class fighters at 130 , you know they are capable of winning or having a good fights against elite fighters.
For example , If a fighter beats several b-class fighters for a belt at 130 , then moves up to say 135 and fights several elite fighters , you can use good "judement" to know that they would have ranked high at 130 if given the oportunity fight other greats.

An even better example would be Roberto Duran ... He did shit at 140 ... However knowing what he did at 135 & 147 , I'd say its a fair bet he would have been a great 140lber if he stayed there or had the opportunity to fight other elite fighters..

Floyd fought some B-class fighters and has yet to step in the ring with an elite fighter ...

I'm not sure if you can see the point I'm making here ?

Erratic

04-02-2007, 03:37 PM

My point was that the other fighters you mentioned that were great that did not fight other greats at 130 atleast went on to fight other greats even if it wasn't at 130.
In other words , maybe they didn't fight the best at 130 but , they went on to fight some of the best at higher weight classes.
In turn this might bump them up in the rankings because even though they may have only beaten B-class fighters at 130 , you know they are capable of winning or having a good fights against elite fighters.
For example , If a fighter beats several b-class fighters for a belt at 130 , then moves up to say 135 and fights several elite fighters , you can use good "judement" to know that they would have ranked high at 130 if given the oportunity fight other greats.

An even better example would be Roberto Duran ... He did shit at 140 ... However knowing what he did at 135 & 147 , I'd say its a fair bet he would have been a great 140lber if he stayed there or had the opportunity to fight other elite fighters..

Floyd fought some B-class fighters and has yet to step in the ring with an elite fighter ...

I'm not sure if you can see the point I'm making here ?

What a fighter does at a higher weight class shouldn't matter when ranking them at another. Some fighters are better when they move up, some fighters aren't as good when they move up.

A fighter winning or losing a fight at 140 lbs or whatever has nothing to do with his ranking at 130. Manny Pacquiao has done great things at 126 and 130, but that has no bearing on his flyweight rankings all-time. It only matters when ranking him at 126, 130, and all-time, but not at flyweight.

Besides, Chavez's performances against "greats" aren't impressive, unless you consider Rosario and Taylor as "greats", but he's still one of the greatest ever at 130.

What ten guys rank higher all-time than PBF at 130?

slystaff

04-02-2007, 04:01 PM

Hearns KO early rounds ...

This Floyd shit in MM needs to stop .... Floyd beat a couple of B-class fighters and people are on his nuts ...
I hope these people understand that if Floyd was to retire right now , he would NOT be considered a great and would not even make a top ten list for all timers for ANY of the divisions he fought in ...

You don't make all time top 10 lists for beating Corrales , Castillo , and Baldomir ...

I go away for a few months and people are still coming up with this type of shit.

Joe Louis wouldn't be an all time great with your logic because, with the exception of Joe Walcott, his reign consisted of hasbeens and never weres.

Floyd wouldn't be a top ten in any division he's been in? When he's undefeated and defeated top contemporaries in Castillo, Corrales, Hernandez etc.

Which great Heavyweight did Larry Holmes ever beat?

This logic is so juvenile it hurts..

CleanYourClock

04-02-2007, 04:16 PM

I go away for a few months and people are still coming up with this type of shit.

Joe Louis wouldn't be an all time great with your logic because, with the exception of Joe Walcott, his reign consisted of hasbeens and never weres.

Floyd wouldn't be a top ten in any division he's been in? When he's undefeated and defeated top contemporaries in Castillo, Corrales, Hernandez etc.

Which great Heavyweight did Larry Holmes ever beat?

This logic is so juvenile it hurts..

:laughing: :laughing:
Whats up Stafford .... I'll give you a pass this time cause you have been gone awhile ....

Welcome back ! :clap:

Roll With The Punches

05-03-2010, 12:09 PM

in round 2:

old man Mosley - jab to the body, tap upstairs put Floyd on queer street

Thomas Hearns - jab to the body, right upstairs KO's iron chinned Duran

:popcorn:

steve_dave

05-03-2010, 12:36 PM

Jesus, I hope CleanYourClock stays away. What a fence post that guy was.

puerto rock

05-03-2010, 04:42 PM

I say Hearns via 15 round UD.

Mayweather is slippery and precise with counters so he'll get in some shots and make it competitive. But Hearns' size, speed, jab, and right hand is too much of a package for even Mayweather to deal with.

I think Hearns hurts Mayweather late in the fight but Mayweather's skill will allow him to last the full 15. But he'll come out on the wrong end of the decision.

TLC

05-03-2010, 05:35 PM

Mayweather by UD

Ramonza Soliloquies

05-03-2010, 06:36 PM

It's a pretty horrible style match-up for Mayweather. Like Whitaker, I don't think he has the answers for this particular challenge. I have to side with Hearns.

V10

05-04-2010, 02:14 AM

It's a pretty horrible style match-up for Mayweather. Like Whitaker, I don't think he has the answers for this particular challenge. I have to side with Hearns.

No fighter unable to hurt Hearns could beat him IMO.

So yeah, Floyd and Pernell would fit in there. The fact that they come from 130-135 to face a freaking huge Welterweight doesn't help either.

broadwayjoe

05-04-2010, 07:17 AM

Mayweather by UD

Mayweather has no chance here, none.

slystaff

05-04-2010, 08:26 AM

Mayweather has no chance here, none.
I agree that Hearns would be favoured (height, speed, power, boxing ability) but to say that Mayweather has no chance is asinine.

Floyd's left hook can certainly put Hearns on queer street...and Floyd has better stamina and defense.

slystaff

05-04-2010, 08:27 AM

No fighter unable to hurt Hearns could beat him IMO.

So yeah, Floyd and Pernell would fit in there. The fact that they come from 130-135 to face a freaking huge Welterweight doesn't help either.
Floyd was hurting Shane...Shane walked through Margarito's punches. People still underestimate Floyd's power.

broadwayjoe

05-04-2010, 10:13 AM

I agree that Hearns would be favoured (height, speed, power, boxing ability) but to say that Mayweather has no chance is asinine.

Floyd's left hook can certainly put Hearns on queer street...and Floyd has better stamina and defense.

First of all, you can stick your asinine comment somewhere painful.

Hearns is a much better Welter than Mayweather and only a Mayweather groupie like you would think otherwise. Mayweather is nowhere as much of a puncher at Welter (beating up old and inactive Shane Mosley means nothing here) as you would like him to be. The Mosley we saw this past weekend would have been in for a world of hurt against Leonard or Hearns.

Mayweather will not be able to potshot his way to a win and he doesn't have the offensive to get to Hearns the way Leonard did. The best he can hope for is a convincing decision loss.

TLC

05-04-2010, 12:11 PM

Mayweather 115-113, 116-112, 115-114

broadwayjoe

05-04-2010, 01:24 PM

Mayweather 115-113, 116-112, 115-114

:atu:

Dog Jones

05-04-2010, 03:24 PM

Hearns in a lopsided decision victory, maybe even a late TKO where Uncle Roger pulls him out

TLC

05-04-2010, 08:37 PM

Ah, MM, where fighters are better than they actually are..

Hut*Hut

05-04-2010, 09:23 PM

Floyd was hurting Shane...Shane walked through Margarito's punches. People still underestimate Floyd's power.

There's a tipping point when you just don't take shots as well as you did, and 16 months out at 38 is a perfect way to tip you over that edge. Shane was uncoordinated from the first bell.

Agree Floyd's power is a bit underrated though. He's by NO means feather fisted.

Hut*Hut

05-04-2010, 09:31 PM

Ah, MM, where fighters are better than they actually are..

Ah, TLC, who doesn't have the first clue of how good fighters actually are today let alone from 30 years ago.

Pascals Wager

05-05-2010, 04:43 AM

PBF would be very lucky to see the final bell in this one.
Hearns by K.O or comfortable dec.
PBF will not be able to bridge the distance, will not have the workrate, & will be in such a defensive shell after a while that any kind of offense would be the furthest thing from his mind.

broadwayjoe

05-05-2010, 09:09 AM

Ah, MM, where fighters are better than they actually are..

Yep. Especially Mayweather to his groupies.

TLC

05-05-2010, 03:50 PM

41-0 speaks for itself, Hearns got KO'd by Leonard. :lol:

broadwayjoe

05-05-2010, 04:33 PM

41-0 speaks for itself, Hearns got KO'd by Leonard. :lol:

When someone likes to hide their favorite fighter behind only numbers or stats, that is more often than not a sign that a resume is nothing special. Floyd's resume at 147 is nothing special and not one fighter he has faced in this class is anywhere close to as good as either Hearns OR Leonard.

So 41-0 does NOT speak for itself. The opposition behind that number is what matters...or it matters to folks who actually know something.

So :lol: all you want, but the real joke is thinking Mayweather would win this matchup...or even that he would take this fight against a prime Hearns.

who?

05-05-2010, 04:35 PM

41-0 speaks for itself, Hearns got KO'd by Leonard. :lol:
how many rounds do you think it would take leonard to knockout floyd? 3? 4?

slystaff

05-05-2010, 04:49 PM

When someone likes to hide their favorite fighter behind only numbers or stats, that is more often than not a sign that a resume is nothing special. Floyd's resume at 147 is nothing special and not one fighter he has faced in this class is anywhere close to as good as either Hearns OR Leonard.

So 41-0 does NOT speak for itself. The opposition behind that number is what matters...or it matters to folks who actually know something.

So :lol: all you want, but the real joke is thinking Mayweather would win this matchup...or even that he would take this fight against a prime Hearns.
Yup..Floyd is scared to fight anyone that's a threat. :rolleyes:

Beyond the Grave

05-05-2010, 05:03 PM

Floyd won't fight Paul Williams,so there's no way in hell he'll fight Hearns.

TLC

05-05-2010, 05:41 PM

how many rounds do you think it would take leonard to knockout floyd? 3? 4?

N/A

TLC

05-05-2010, 05:45 PM

When someone likes to hide their favorite fighter behind only numbers or stats, that is more often than not a sign that a resume is nothing special. Floyd's resume at 147 is nothing special and not one fighter he has faced in this class is anywhere close to as good as either Hearns OR Leonard.

So 41-0 does NOT speak for itself. The opposition behind that number is what matters...or it matters to folks who actually know something.

So :lol: all you want, but the real joke is thinking Mayweather would win this matchup...or even that he would take this fight against a prime Hearns.

Bullshit, Hearns got KO'd by a non puncher, and made his career out of getting knocked out. Leonard lost to a blown up lightweight and didn't even destroy Floyd's bummy dad, who Floyd is 10x better than. :atu:

slystaff

05-05-2010, 05:50 PM

Floyd won't fight Paul Williams,so there's no way in hell he'll fight Hearns.
There;s no "talk" surrounding Paul Williams and that's why he's not a particularly attractive option.

There's talk around Pacquiao and that's why Floyd tried to make that fight.

broadwayjoe

05-05-2010, 09:53 PM

Bullshit, Hearns got KO'd by a non puncher, and made his career out of getting knocked out. Leonard lost to a blown up lightweight and didn't even destroy Floyd's bummy dad, who Floyd is 10x better than. :atu:

Wow. You don't have a clue about anything do you? I mean really...that's gotta be one of the worst posts I've ever read. What is it with Mayweather groupies and no grip on reality.

Let me guess...you just started watching boxing a very short time ago. And THEN you discovered BoxRec.....

TLC

05-05-2010, 09:55 PM

Hearns lost 3 times. :lol:

broadwayjoe

05-05-2010, 09:56 PM

Yup..Floyd is scared to fight anyone that's a threat. :rolleyes:

Oh, that's right....he bravely faced a 38 year old & inactive Mosley at 147.

Mayweather would never, ever fight Hearns.

broadwayjoe

05-05-2010, 09:57 PM

Floyd won't fight Paul Williams,so there's no way in hell he'll fight Hearns.

Absolutely.

Beyond the Grave

05-06-2010, 12:32 AM

There;s no "talk" surrounding Paul Williams and that's why he's not a particularly attractive option.

There's talk around Pacquiao and that's why Floyd tried to make that fight.

Paul Williams will beat Floyd Mayweathers ass

slystaff

05-06-2010, 11:23 AM

Oh, that's right....he bravely faced a 38 year old & inactive Mosley at 147.

Mayweather would never, ever fight Hearns.
Based on what?

slystaff

05-06-2010, 11:23 AM

Paul Williams will beat Floyd Mayweathers ass
Not necessarily.

Hut*Hut

05-06-2010, 12:06 PM

This is an interesting fight.....Tommy was somewhat vulnerable to the left hook and I can see Floyd keeping him honest with that, and Floyd's smart enough to know he'd need to establish some respect early to keep Hearns from unleashing a hell storm on him. So I think he'd come out more assertively than some might envision. But in the end Tommy's got far too much firepower for Floyd to gain much of a foothold in this. He also has an unpredictable offence which i think is an important ingredient against Floyd, who's exceptionally good at gauging & anticipating a guys patterns in terms of how they set to throw.

Low output fight, Hearns wins pretty clearly on all the cards.