Fantastic Fights of the Century (video)

[cupey alto]

enjoy

CLICK HERE TO WATCH (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid686960767/bclid686964172/bctid823491308)

[jaws1216]

when I said my technique was as good as people from the black and white era, I wasn't kidding.



And ive never been trained in my life, so that'll give u an idea of how pathetic these guys are

[slystaff]

when I said my technique was as good as people from the black and white era, I wasn't kidding.



And ive never been trained in my life, so that'll give u an idea of how pathetic these guys are

Shut up kid! Come back when you grow pubic hair on your genitals.

Nice job Cupey!

[jaws1216]

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/rduran1216/horse.jpg

[Free Ike]

Old timers suck. I love idiots like Rubio who have never and will never see thse slow skilless guys fight and say how great it was back when. Joe Louis wouldn't be in the top 25 today. He'd be a tuneup for a 2007 version of Tua.

[Haymaker]

when I said my technique was as good as people from the black and white era, I wasn't kidding.



And ive never been trained in my life, so that'll give u an idea of how pathetic these guys are

I would've loved to see you in the ring against carmen basilio and see you quit on the stool :lol:

[jaws1216]

I would've loved to see you in the ring against carmen basilio and see you quit on the stool :lol:

naw I'd fake a leg injury in the ringwalk:blobbox:

[Matchup_Analyzer]

:clap:























Fake a thumb in the eye, take a knee and count to 10 with the ref

[Rubio MHS]

naw I'd fake a leg injury in the ringwalk:blobbox:Works for Joe Calzaghe.

[Orthodox Crusader]

I would've loved to see you in the ring against carmen basilio and see you quit on the stool :lol:

He'd quit....in his own stool.

[3OG]

Old timers suck. I love idiots like Rubio who have never and will never see thse slow skilless guys fight and say how great it was back when. Joe Louis wouldn't be in the top 25 today. He'd be a tuneup for a 2007 version of Tua.

My friend as a fighter in this day and age I don't want to insult you, but inform you. The guys from the "Black&White Era" had great skill and ring generalship. The abilty to control pace for sometimes over 20rounds and be active! The lost art of inside fighting! Six Oz gloves etc.! The Brown Bomber could contend today also. Joe Louis had power in both hands and could break a mans ribs w/ an one intch punch; also he's always in punching position with his legs stable and planted. Today he would only have problems with ALi type fighters. As I scan the HW top 10 there are no fighters like this; except maybe WLAD. I'm sure Joe would find his glass jaw sooner or later.......:cool:

[cupey alto]

My friend as a fighter in this day and age I don't want to insult you, but inform you. The guys from the "Black&White Era" had great skill and ring generalship. The abilty to control pace for sometimes over 20rounds and be active! The lost art of inside fighting! Six Oz gloves etc.! The Brown Bomber could contend today also. Joe Louis had power in both hands and could break a mans ribs w/ an one intch punch; also he's always in punching position with his legs stable and planted. Today he would only have problems with ALi type fighters. As I scan the HW top 10 there are no fighters like this; except maybe WLAD. I'm sure Joe would find his glass jaw sooner or later.......:cool:

Thanks 30G, Please preach to clowns like Jaws who know nothing about boxing but has the gaul to declare these guys as limited bums. Geez.

[jaws1216]

Thanks 30G, Please preach to clowns like Jaws who know nothing about boxing but has the gaul to declare these guys as limited bums. Geez.

I'm not gonna talk crap to a professional boxer, but if you agree with statements like "As I scan the HW top 10 there are no fighters like this; except maybe WLAD. I'm sure Joe would find his glass jaw sooner or later"

When talking about Joe Louis then you are a clown. Louis was KD by several 175lbers, so to say Joe would find Wlad's chin is downright retarded. But what would I expect from a Mencia Lookalike who knows as much about boxing as the real Mencia knows about writing his own jokes

[cupey alto]

I'm not gonna talk crap to a professional boxer, but if you agree with statements like "As I scan the HW top 10 there are no fighters like this; except maybe WLAD. I'm sure Joe would find his glass jaw sooner or later"

When talking about Joe Louis then you are a clown. Louis was KD by several 175lbers, so to say Joe would find Wlad's chin is downright retarded. But what would I expect from a Mencia Lookalike who knows as much about boxing as the real Mencia knows about writing his own jokes

Are we talking about the Wlad that was KO'd by a golfer and KO'd by Lamon Hit me with everything Brewster?

And what does being KD have to do with anything? anybody can get knockdown, who of those actually KO'd him???? Learn something about boxing before you post.

Cupey

[jaws1216]

Are we talking about the Wlad that was KO'd by a golfer and KO'd by Lamon Hit me with everything Brewster?

And what does being KD have to do with anything? anybody can get knockdown, who of those actually KO'd him???? Learn something about boxing before you post.

Cupey

Joe Louis has been KD more times than any HW champion by far. If you're contending a chin is the ability to not get KO'd, then you are beyond help. You know who has a great chin? Marvin Hagler, Julio Cesar Chavez, Wayne McColough.

If you weigh over 200 lbs, and one punch from a 175lber puts you on your ass, you don't have a good chin. Is that so hard to understand?

[CleanYourClock]

Old timers suck. I love idiots like Rubio who have never and will never see thse slow skilless guys fight and say how great it was back when. Joe Louis wouldn't be in the top 25 today. He'd be a tuneup for a 2007 version of Tua.

Are you on crack ??

Go watch the Louis /Walcott fight ...
Just in that short clip they both showed more skill then I have seen a Heavyweight use in a long long time ....

Louis was over 6ft , 200/205 in his prime and went as high as 220 ...
Today he would be 220 at a prime weight and would box circles around these slobs today before KO'ing them....
Same with Walcott ....

[CleanYourClock]

Joe Louis has been KD more times than any HW champion by far. If you're contending a chin is the ability to not get KO'd, then you are beyond help. You know who has a great chin? Marvin Hagler, Julio Cesar Chavez, Wayne McColough.

If you weigh over 200 lbs, and one punch from a 175lber puts you on your ass, you don't have a good chin. Is that so hard to understand?

Are you taking into consideration of the old style gloves ???
Allot of guys would hit the canvas or hit the canvas more frequently if they were hit with those MMA/UFC style gloves ...

[Nobleart]

Joe Louis has been KD more times than any HW champion by far. If you're contending a chin is the ability to not get KO'd, then you are beyond help. You know who has a great chin? Marvin Hagler, Julio Cesar Chavez, Wayne McColough.

If you weigh over 200 lbs, and one punch from a 175lber puts you on your ass, you don't have a good chin. Is that so hard to understand?

Outside of old-ass Louis's retirement fight against Marciano he was KO'd once in 70 fights after a sustained beating. I don't think anybody ever claimed he had a Hagler chin but Louis set his feet and followed through on his punches. He was a very offensive fighter so every once in awhile he would get tagged and dropped on his ass. Then he'd get up and go back to business.

I hope you're not one of the fags who brag about Tyson having such a great chin even though he was never able to come back to win a fight after being dropped or hurt..............unlike Louis.

Oh, and please enlighten me on the improved techniques of todays Heavyweight over the Louis era Heavyweight besides being bigger, fatter and lazier. John Ruiz became a champion in this era for christ's sake. Is that due to the Revolutionary clutch, grab, hold and hump technique that yesterdays fighters weren't smart enough to master? :dunno:

May I remind you fat-ass James Toney who used to fight at 160 lbs. competes in todays Heavyweight division with his share of success.

[jaws1216]

"though he was never able to come back to win a fight after being dropped or hurt..............unlike Louis"

spare me the bullshit.

All this debate is about is Joe Louis ability to take a punch. This isn't some horseshit navigation down memory lane, or some bullshit reminiscience of how great guys used to be. People who think olden days guys were better than modern fighters are FUCKING IDIOTS. there isn't an ounce of sense in saying fighters have gotten worse over time. NONE. These bullshit tangents old time nut lickers always bring up are insulting.

Joe Louis did not have a good chin. Joe Louis was dropped more than any HW champion in history. If you can argue with those facts,you are simply not intelligent. That is this entire debate.

Perhaps you and others who like to throw out tangents can "Rubio-search" Fallacies of logic.

[CleanYourClock]

"though he was never able to come back to win a fight after being dropped or hurt..............unlike Louis"

spare me the bullshit.

All this debate is about is Joe Louis ability to take a punch. This isn't some horseshit navigation down memory lane, or some bullshit reminiscience of how great guys used to be. People who think olden days guys were better than modern fighters are FUCKING IDIOTS. there isn't an ounce of sense in saying fighters have gotten worse over time. NONE. These bullshit tangents old time nut lickers always bring up are insulting.

Joe Louis did not have a good chin. Joe Louis was dropped more than any HW champion in history. If you can argue with those facts,you are simply not intelligent. That is this entire debate.

Perhaps you and others who like to throw out tangents can "Rubio-search" Fallacies of logic.

Dropped with what kind of gloves .... Why the fuck do you ignor this FACT in the difference between the old gloves Vs. the new gloves ??

Also dropped , getting up and winning the fight is A HELL OF a difference from getting KTFO and losing the fight ...

[jaws1216]

Dropped with what kind of gloves .... Why the fuck do you ignor this FACT in the difference between the old gloves Vs. the new gloves ??

Also dropped , getting up and winning the fight is A HELL OF a difference from getting KTFO and losing the fight ...

The FACT is that Joe Louis was KD more times than any HW champion. Jack Johnson, Jeffries, Marciano, Baer, Carnera, etc... who fought with these same gloves that you think are an issue, weren't dropped 20 something times.

And again if you want to throw tangents out, feel free to take some kind of logic class. Getting up and winning or losing a fight that you have been KD has nothing to do with chin. "Chin" is the ability to take a punch, and getting dropped is the only issue. Not what color ballsweat dripped down Louis' or any fighters drunks after the fights

[Nobleart]

"though he was never able to come back to win a fight after being dropped or hurt..............unlike Louis"

spare me the bullshit.

All this debate is about is Joe Louis ability to take a punch. This isn't some horseshit navigation down memory lane, or some bullshit reminiscience of how great guys used to be. People who think olden days guys were better than modern fighters are FUCKING IDIOTS. there isn't an ounce of sense in saying fighters have gotten worse over time. NONE. These bullshit tangents old time nut lickers always bring up are insulting.

Joe Louis did not have a good chin. Joe Louis was dropped more than any HW champion in history. If you can argue with those facts,you are simply not intelligent. That is this entire debate.

Perhaps you and others who like to throw out tangents can "Rubio-search" Fallacies of logic.


Asshole answer this question.

What fucking techniques do Heavyweights of today do better then heavyweights of Joe Louis's era?

All of a sudden this is only about Louis's chin. Nobody said he had a chin of granite ya' fuck-wit.

Apparently you are one of the assholes that think Tyson has a chin of steel since you got so fucking offended.

Is this all about size? What? What makes them better.......................spell it out for this "Fucking Idiot!"

I'm not talking about Bare-knuckle era boxing here. Boxing is fucking boxing. I'm not saying every boxer from the past would kick every boxer from the presents ass. I think the absolute best could hang in any era. Floyd would have done well in the 40's-50's and Robinson would have kicked ass in the present.

I'm not discounting present day boxers....................but you're the asshole who thinks boxing was invented when Roy Jones was born and anybody who fought before Color TV was a skilless piece of shit riding on the coat-tails of skilled Champions like Ricardo Mayorga and Shannon Briggs.

Oh.............and Rubio is a cunt, so fuck you! :flip:

[CleanYourClock]

The FACT is that Joe Louis was KD more times than any HW champion. Jack Johnson, Jeffries, Marciano, Baer, Carnera, etc... who fought with these same gloves that you think are an issue, weren't dropped 20 something times.

And again if you want to throw tangents out, feel free to take some kind of logic class. Getting up and winning or losing a fight that you have been KD has nothing to do with chin. "Chin" is the ability to take a punch, and getting dropped is the only issue. Not what color ballsweat dripped down Louis' or any fighters drunks after the fights

WTF is your point then ? He had a bad chin ?

Bottom line is he got UP AND WON ... That is a win for him ....
Saying he has a bad chin even though he WON the fights is pointless since his so called bad chin did not cost him the fight ...

You better go watch the short clip of Louis /Walcott in this thread ...
If you think fighters like Ruiz , Fat Toney , Brewster , Byrd and other could beat them , you are sadly mistaken ...

I'm betting you didn't even watch Louis/Walcott ????

[Nobleart]

The FACT is that Joe Louis was KD more times than any HW champion. Jack Johnson, Jeffries, Marciano, Baer, Carnera, etc... who fought with these same gloves that you think are an issue, weren't dropped 20 something times.

And again if you want to throw tangents out, feel free to take some kind of logic class. Getting up and winning or losing a fight that you have been KD has nothing to do with chin. "Chin" is the ability to take a punch, and getting dropped is the only issue. Not what color ballsweat dripped down Louis' or any fighters drunks after the fights


He fought far more often then any of these guys you dimwit. And Carnera was dropped like 11 times in one fight alone.

What the fuck kind of logic is that. Getting KD is the same as getting KO'd?

Getting dropped isn't the only issue. Recovery is much more important then whether or not you got caught off balance or with a good shot because of your aggresive offensive style.

Trinidad was very similar. Could get dropped and come back and kick your ass with ease anyway.

[jaws1216]

Asshole answer this question.

What fucking techniques do Heavyweights of today do better then heavyweights of Joe Louis's era?

All of a sudden this is only about Louis's chin. Nobody said he had a chin of granite ya' fuck-wit.

Apparently you are one of the assholes that think Tyson has a chin of steel since you got so fucking offended.

Is this all about size? What? What makes them better.......................spell it out for this "Fucking Idiot!"

I'm not talking about Bare-knuckle era boxing here. Boxing is fucking boxing. I'm not saying every boxer from the past would kick every boxer from the presents ass. I think the absolute best could hang in any era. Floyd would have done well in the 40's-50's and Robinson would have kicked ass in the present.

I'm not discounting present day boxers....................but you're the asshole who thinks boxing was invented when Roy Jones was born and anybody who fought before Color TV was a skilless piece of shit riding on the coat-tails of skilled Champions like Ricardo Mayorga and Shannon Briggs.

Oh.............and Rubio is a cunt, so fuck you! :flip:

Yes I think boxing was invented when RJJ was born. I also said anybody who fought before Color TV was a skillless piece of shit. I also definitely brought up Mike Tyson and Bareknuckle boxing. I also brought up improved techniques and Floyd Mayweather.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

[jaws1216]

What the fuck kind of logic is that. Getting KD is the same as getting KO'd?

Getting dropped isn't the only issue. Recovery is much more important then whether or not you got caught off balance or with a good shot because of your aggresive offensive style.

Trinidad was very similar. Could get dropped and come back and kick your ass with ease anyway.

Lets begin class.

My original objection was to the characterization of Wlad Klitschko having a glass chin, in the same breath as praising Joe Louis.

That's alot like saying, the Arizona cardinals are a great franchise, but the LA clippers suck.

I continued to assert a claim that Joe Louis did not have a good chin, based on evidence regarding how many times he had been dropped etc...

So lets let A be a fighter getting dropped more times than any other HW champion, and B be some fighter does not have a good chin.

My argument is simple: If A then B. Common sense and analysis suggest that this argument is sound.

So how do the logic buffs of fightbeat respond?

by introducing a new claim "getting up from a KD and winning a fight" we can call it C.

This fallacious argument goes something like, If C then not B. Or at the very least, If C then my argument is unsound. However, the ability to recover from a KD has nothing at all to do with one's propensity for avoiding being KD in the first place. This is in fact an example of the Red Herring fallacy. Where a completely unrelated conclusion is drawn from evidence.

Joe Louis did not have a good chin. You can not bash Klitschko's ability to take a punch in response to such a claim.

[jaws1216]

WTF is your point then ? He had a bad chin ?

Bottom line is he got UP AND WON ... That is a win for him ....
Saying he has a bad chin even though he WON the fights is pointless since his so called bad chin did not cost him the fight ...

You better go watch the short clip of Louis /Walcott in this thread ...
If you think fighters like Ruiz , Fat Toney , Brewster , Byrd and other could beat them , you are sadly mistaken ...

I'm betting you didn't even watch Louis/Walcott ????

YES MY POINT IS THAT HE HAD A BAD CHIN.

Your response to that is that "Bottom line is he got UP AND WON ... That is a win for him"

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

seriously guys

[CleanYourClock]

YES MY POINT IS THAT HE HAD A BAD CHIN.

Your response to that is that "Bottom line is he got UP AND WON ... That is a win for him"

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

seriously guys

I thought you were bashing old time fighters as a whole and using Louis as some sort of example ....
Did I miss something here ? :dunno:

[Nobleart]

Lets begin class.

My original objection was to the characterization of Wlad Klitschko having a glass chin, in the same breath as praising Joe Louis.

That's alot like saying, the Arizona cardinals are a great franchise, but the LA clippers suck.

I continued to assert a claim that Joe Louis did not have a good chin, based on evidence regarding how many times he had been dropped etc...

So lets let A be a fighter getting dropped more times than any other HW champion, and B be some fighter does not have a good chin.

My argument is simple: If A then B. Common sense and analysis suggest that this argument is sound.

So how do the logic buffs of fightbeat respond?

by introducing a new claim "getting up from a KD and winning a fight" we can call it C.

This fallacious argument goes something like, If C then not B. Or at the very least, If C then my argument is unsound. However, the ability to recover from a KD has nothing at all to do with one's propensity for avoiding being KD in the first place. This is in fact an example of the Red Herring fallacy. Where a completely unrelated conclusion is drawn from evidence.

Joe Louis did not have a good chin. You can not bash Klitschko's ability to take a punch in response to such a claim.



This is your first quote in the thread.

when I said my technique was as good as people from the black and white era, I wasn't kidding.



And ive never been trained in my life, so that'll give u an idea of how pathetic these guys are


Are you telling me all this is about 30G making a crack about Klitschko?

[Nobleart]

I thought you were bashing old time fighters as a whole and using Louis as some sort of example ....
Did I miss something here ? :dunno:

That's what I got out of it. :dunno:

[jaws1216]

This is your first quote in the thread.




Are you telling me all this is about 30G making a crack about Klitschko?

No, this is about Mencia affirming 30G's claim.

[dsimon3387]

My friend as a fighter in this day and age I don't want to insult you, but inform you. The guys from the "Black&White Era" had great skill and ring generalship. The abilty to control pace for sometimes over 20rounds and be active! The lost art of inside fighting! Six Oz gloves etc.! The Brown Bomber could contend today also. Joe Louis had power in both hands and could break a mans ribs w/ an one intch punch; also he's always in punching position with his legs stable and planted. Today he would only have problems with ALi type fighters. As I scan the HW top 10 there are no fighters like this; except maybe WLAD. I'm sure Joe would find his glass jaw sooner or later.......:cool:

dsimon writes:

:bears: :bears:

I would say don't waste your breath. 3OG, but don't risk carple tunnel syndrome on the idiocy of Jawz and Strange love on this particular issue.

[dsimon3387]

Are we talking about the Wlad that was KO'd by a golfer and KO'd by Lamon Hit me with everything Brewster?

And what does being KD have to do with anything? anybody can get knockdown, who of those actually KO'd him???? Learn something about boxing before you post.

Cupey

dsimon writes:

Cupey to be fair Sanders is a pretty good Golfer. :lol:

[dsimon3387]

Asshole answer this question.

What fucking techniques do Heavyweights of today do better then heavyweights of Joe Louis's era?

All of a sudden this is only about Louis's chin. Nobody said he had a chin of granite ya' fuck-wit.

Apparently you are one of the assholes that think Tyson has a chin of steel since you got so fucking offended.

Is this all about size? What? What makes them better.......................spell it out for this "Fucking Idiot!"

I'm not talking about Bare-knuckle era boxing here. Boxing is fucking boxing. I'm not saying every boxer from the past would kick every boxer from the presents ass. I think the absolute best could hang in any era. Floyd would have done well in the 40's-50's and Robinson would have kicked ass in the present.

I'm not discounting present day boxers....................but you're the asshole who thinks boxing was invented when Roy Jones was born and anybody who fought before Color TV was a skilless piece of shit riding on the coat-tails of skilled Champions like Ricardo Mayorga and Shannon Briggs.

Oh.............and Rubio is a cunt, so fuck you! :flip:

dsimon writes:

Good luck getting Jawz to make sense on this issue! Many wiser than I have tried repeatedly to deconstruct the lack of logic Jawz applies to this issue and to no availe.

[winner by choke]

None of the punches that ever dropped Joe Louis would knock down Wladimir Klitschko.

Nobody ever said Joe Louis wasn't a great fighter, Jaws called you guys out for saying Wladimir Klitschko had a glass chin and JoeLouis would find it, when clearly Klitschko's ability to take a punch is much higher than Joe Louis.

You guys say how many times was Louis KOed, has Wladimir ever been knocked out?? No. If Joe fought in today's era he would've TKOed in many fights that were allowed to go on.

And Nobleart...

what does coming back to win have to do with chins?? Tyson clearly has a great chin, its mental toughness that he is lacking if anything.

While there is a small amount of guys from the 1940's who could compete in today's boxing it is almost certainly not the heavyweights. If you think Jack Johnson could defeat or come close to defeating David Tua you are a fool.

Jesse Owens could probably beat Maurice Greene in the 100M sprint too right??

[winner by choke]

Are we talking about the Wlad that was KO'd by a golfer and KO'd by Lamon Hit me with everything Brewster?

And what does being KD have to do with anything? anybody can get knockdown, who of those actually KO'd him???? Learn something about boxing before you post.

Cupey

1. How many skilled 220 LBS fighters did Joe Louis EVER fight? In fact I would say Joe Louis never fought a fight with comparable offensive abilities to Corrie Sanders...a 6'4 225 LBS lefty with one punch power. A rarity in boing history.

2. Neither Sanders nor Brewster knocked out Klitschko, both fights were TKOs. If Joe Louis fought in the modern era at least 2 of his fights wouldve been TKO losses for him.

[CleanYourClock]

None of the punches that ever dropped Joe Louis would knock down Wladimir Klitschko.

Nobody ever said Joe Louis wasn't a great fighter, Jaws called you guys out for saying Wladimir Klitschko had a glass chin and JoeLouis would find it, when clearly Klitschko's ability to take a punch is much higher than Joe Louis.

You guys say how many times was Louis KOed, has Wladimir ever been knocked out?? No. If Joe fought in today's era he would've TKOed in many fights that were allowed to go on.

And Nobleart...

what does coming back to win have to do with chins?? Tyson clearly has a great chin, its mental toughness that he is lacking if anything.

While there is a small amount of guys from the 1940's who could compete in today's boxing it is almost certainly not the heavyweights. If you think Jack Johnson could defeat or come close to defeating David Tua you are a fool.

Jesse Owens could probably beat Maurice Greene in the 100M sprint too right??

I was somewhat respecting the opinion of this post until I read - "If you think Jack Johnson could defeat or come close to defeating David Tua you are a fool."

WTF Johnson was a tremendous boxer , about 6'2 and over 210lbs ..
He had stamina out his ass ....
Why would you think he would not be able to handle Tua ?

[dsimon3387]

None of the punches that ever dropped Joe Louis would knock down Wladimir Klitschko.

Nobody ever said Joe Louis wasn't a great fighter, Jaws called you guys out for saying Wladimir Klitschko had a glass chin and JoeLouis would find it, when clearly Klitschko's ability to take a punch is much higher than Joe Louis.

You guys say how many times was Louis KOed, has Wladimir ever been knocked out?? No. If Joe fought in today's era he would've TKOed in many fights that were allowed to go on.

And Nobleart...

what does coming back to win have to do with chins?? Tyson clearly has a great chin, its mental toughness that he is lacking if anything.

While there is a small amount of guys from the 1940's who could compete in today's boxing it is almost certainly not the heavyweights. If you think Jack Johnson could defeat or come close to defeating David Tua you are a fool.

Jesse Owens could probably beat Maurice Greene in the 100M sprint too right??

dsimon writes:

This is the other big logical flaw in this argument: All sports evolve the same way, and boxers are therefore better today.

1) If we had been playing baseball since the stoneage then I doubt baseball players would be better today than 50 years ago. We have been fistfighting since the stone age at least... The anatomical points of how to throw a punch harder are not new to human beings.

2) The rules have changed so much in boxing that it is a different sport. More watered down if anything. Fighters today do not have to be nearly as good as fighters of old. So where is the evolution of the sport? In football guys are better know because the sport is more complicated. They have to be smarter, bigger and stronger. They are athletes, where as before they were bruisers. Boxers today have to fight less rounds with bigger gloves.... you see a problem here?

3) Not everything evolves. We had hydrocarbon engines in the 30's that could do everything a car engine (minus the other engineering factors) could do today and that was made so that it could be maintained indefinitely. Yes cars are better today, but for other reasons.

4) Boxing had better trainers and better apprenticeship programs. Fighters had to have more skills. Today's fighters are primarily athletes and only fighters second to that. The old fighters were fighters first, they thought like fighters and boxing was more related to real combat.

These are just a few things.

[Nobleart]

And Nobleart...

what does coming back to win have to do with chins?? Tyson clearly has a great chin, its mental toughness that he is lacking if anything.

While there is a small amount of guys from the 1940's who could compete in today's boxing it is almost certainly not the heavyweights. If you think Jack Johnson could defeat or come close to defeating David Tua you are a fool.



Let me get this straight. Louis would get knocked down, recuperate quickly, get back up and kick your ass = shitty chin

Tyson would get knocked down or hurt.............would never recover.....and always go on to lose, get KO'd or quit = great chin

Either I'm reading this wrong or Joe Louis had some amazing defensive abilities that Mike Tyson could only dream about.

Jack Johnson didn't fight in the 1940's. I'll ask you the same question I asked Jaws and didn't get an answer for. What do present Heavy's do that 40's era Heavyweights didn't do? :dunno:

[Rubio MHS]

I also said anybody who fought before Color TV was a skillless piece of shit. The first patent for a color television was awarded in 1904.

[Rubio MHS]

Jack Johnson didn't fight in the 1940's. Although he had his last professional bout in 1938, Johnson did have a number of exhibitions in the 1940s.

[winner by choke]

I was somewhat respecting the opinion of this post until I read - "If you think Jack Johnson could defeat or come close to defeating David Tua you are a fool."

WTF Johnson was a tremendous boxer , about 6'2 and over 210lbs ..
He had stamina out his ass ....
Why would you think he would not be able to handle Tua ?

Having just read Unforgivable Blackness I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

Johnson weighed no more than 208 LBS in his prime, and on top of that was not only nearly knocked out by Stanley Ketchel (a middleweight), but he was also knocked out by Joe Choynski (another middleweight) and refused a rematch for the rest of his career.

While Johnson had great defensive skills, alot of it involved imposing his "size" and clinching his opponent, and using his left hand to parry his weaker opponents blows and delivering his lethal right uppercut.

David Tua would bull right through Johnson and his punches would be twice as hard as any Johnson has/had felt before. And Johnson was not a mover either, he was a very physical fighter and sorry but that would absolutely not work against David Tua. Many a fighter stronger then Johnson (with better chins to boot) were annhialated trying to get tough with Tua.

[CleanYourClock]

Although he had his last professional bout in 1938, Johnson did have a number of exhibitions in the 1940s.

He was fuckin 60 years old in 1940 ... :lol:

[winner by choke]

Let me get this straight. Louis would get knocked down, recuperate quickly, get back up and kick your ass = shitty chin

Tyson would get knocked down or hurt.............would never recover.....and always go on to lose, get KO'd or quit = great chin

Either I'm reading this wrong or Joe Louis had some amazing defensive abilities that Mike Tyson could only dream about.

Jack Johnson didn't fight in the 1940's. I'll ask you the same question I asked Jaws and didn't get an answer for. What do present Heavy's do that 40's era Heavyweights didn't do? :dunno:

I think this is purely a semantics argument. Your definition of chin is different then that of mine or Jaws'.

Chin is the ability to TAKE a punch, and the punches that floored Joe Louis would hardly put a dent in Tyson. I am not arguing that Tyson was tougher or had better recouperative abilities, BUT punches that befelled Louis would not have dropped Tyson. Therefore Tyson's chin > Louis' chin. Sound good??

[CleanYourClock]

Having just read Unforgivable Blackness I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

Johnson weighed no more than 208 LBS in his prime, and on top of that was not only nearly knocked out by Stanley Ketchel (a middleweight), but he was also knocked out by Joe Choynski (another middleweight) and refused a rematch for the rest of his career.

While Johnson had great defensive skills, alot of it involved imposing his "size" and clinching his opponent, and using his left hand to parry his weaker opponents blows and delivering his lethal right uppercut.

David Tua would bull right through Johnson and his punches would be twice as hard as any Johnson has/had felt before. And Johnson was not a mover either, he was a very physical fighter and sorry but that would absolutely not work against David Tua. Many a fighter stronger then Johnson (with better chins to boot) were annhialated trying to get tough with Tua.

The guy had something like 130 fights... Most of which were under fucked up circumstances .. Shit happens the more times you roll the dice ...

[winner by choke]

I can assure you, if David Tua fought 100 middleweights he would not have a KO loss.

[cupey alto]

None of the punches that ever dropped Joe Louis would knock down Wladimir Klitschko.

Nobody ever said Joe Louis wasn't a great fighter, Jaws called you guys out for saying Wladimir Klitschko had a glass chin and JoeLouis would find it, when clearly Klitschko's ability to take a punch is much higher than Joe Louis.

You guys say how many times was Louis KOed, has Wladimir ever been knocked out?? No. If Joe fought in today's era he would've TKOed in many fights that were allowed to go on.

And Nobleart...

what does coming back to win have to do with chins?? Tyson clearly has a great chin, its mental toughness that he is lacking if anything.

While there is a small amount of guys from the 1940's who could compete in today's boxing it is almost certainly not the heavyweights. If you think Jack Johnson could defeat or come close to defeating David Tua you are a fool.

Jesse Owens could probably beat Maurice Greene in the 100M sprint too right??

Wladimir's could take better punches to the chin than Louis? Based on what? Being pummeled by Ross Purity? Being knockdown 100 times by Samuel Peter? This is speculation. All we do know is that Wladimir has been stopped and dropped by C level fighters.

Cupey

[Rubio MHS]

Johnson weighed no more than 208 LBS in his prime, and on top of that was not only nearly knocked out by Stanley Ketchel (a middleweight), but he was also knocked out by Joe Choynski (another middleweight) and refused a rematch for the rest of his career.Wrong. Johnson wasn't "nearly knocked out" against Ketchel. He was knocked down, and played 'possum, taking a nine-count to get Ketchel to open up. And the Choynski fight took place when Johnson was no more than an amateur. Johnson didn't give him a rematch because Choynski retired at about the same time Johnson hit his prime.

It's obvious you know little about the era. What more do you know about Johnson's career?
I can assure you, if David Tua fought 100 middleweights he would not have a KO loss.Based on what? His 0-1 record against middleweights?

Also, one big difference between Louis and Tua is that when Louis got hit, he didn't hide in his shell for the rest of the fight, the way Tua does. Louis wouldn't have fought like as big a bitch as Tua did against Louis.

[winner by choke]

Wladimir's could take better punches to the chin than Louis? Based on what? Being pummeled by Ross Purity? Being knockdown 100 times by Samuel Peter? This is speculation. All we do know is that Wladimir has been stopped and dropped by C level fighters.

Cupey

When Joe Louis got cracked on the chin by a 200+ LBS, it almost always meant he was going down.

Only after BOMBS from 230+ LBS fighter has Wladimir even seen the canvas(barring a very flash knockdown vs. Steve Pannell)

It is a matter of physics Cupey, nothing else. a 245 LBS in shape guy can generally take a better shot than a 195 LBS man...period. If Joe Louis was breathed on by Sam Peter he would be seeing stars.

When you are dropped and nearly stopped by Two Ton Tony Galento (the poorest Butterbean impression of the olden days) you do not have a chin as sturdy as Klitschko.

[Rubio MHS]

While Johnson had great defensive skills, alot of it involved imposing his "size" and clinching his opponent, and using his left hand to parry his weaker opponents blows and delivering his lethal right uppercut.Exposed!

90% of Johnson's defense was his hands. You've obviously never seen him fight.

[jaws1216]

i know stupidity is like race, it can't be wiped away, but my goodness there are some slanted and idiotic motherfuckers trollin this board.

[winner by choke]

Wrong. Johnson wasn't "nearly knocked out" against Ketchel. He was knocked down, and played 'possum, taking a nine-count to get Ketchel to open up. And the Choynski fight took place when Johnson was no more than an amateur. Johnson didn't give him a rematch because Choynski retired at about the same time Johnson hit his prime.

It's obvious you know little about the era. What more do you know about Johnson's career?
Based on what? His 0-1 record against middleweights?

Also, one big difference between Louis and Tua is that when Louis got hit, he didn't hide in his shell for the rest of the fight, the way Tua does. Louis wouldn't have fought like as big a bitch as Tua did against Louis.

This is not true. Choynski repeatedly challenged Johnson and was not given a rematch. Jack Johnson ALSO ducked Sam Langford. Against Ketchel he played possum?? Where do you get this bullshit?? Someone obviously has done some faulty editing to wikipedia. Against Johnson he agreed to let the fight go to a draw but was dropped hard and got up and KOed Ketchel.

When did David Tua fight a middleweight?? Certainly you don't mean Chris Byrd, a former heavyweight champion who weighed a solid 215 (bigger than Jack Johnson even, how bout that?)

Louis was never hit by near as big a puncher as Lennox Lewis so it is purely speculation what he would do if he got caught. My guess is be knocked the fuck out. You know, what usually happens when a 250 LBS man hits a 195 LBS one right on the chin.

I know just as much about the era as anybody else who wasn't around during the time. Anybody who thinks because they have read a book with a different account of what happened, or an article by Nat Fleischer, that they somehow know more than someone else who has read numerous books on the same subject is an idiot.

"His 0-1 record vs. 215 LBS solid middleweights"
ahahahaha stupidest thing I have ever read on these boards

[CleanYourClock]

I can assure you, if David Tua fought 100 middleweights he would not have a KO loss.

If Tua only weight 180lbs at the time , I think you might want to think again ...

[CleanYourClock]

When Joe Louis got cracked on the chin by a 200+ LBS, it almost always meant he was going down.

Only after BOMBS from 230+ LBS fighter has Wladimir even seen the canvas(barring a very flash knockdown vs. Steve Pannell)

It is a matter of physics Cupey, nothing else. a 245 LBS in shape guy can generally take a better shot than a 195 LBS man...period. If Joe Louis was breathed on by Sam Peter he would be seeing stars.

When you are dropped and nearly stopped by Two Ton Tony Galento (the poorest Butterbean impression of the olden days) you do not have a chin as sturdy as Klitschko.

Yeah , fighters that weight 230lbs that could have afforded to lose 20lbs if they were in peak condition .. :lol:

[cupey alto]

i know stupidity is like race, it can't be wiped away, but my goodness there are some slanted and idiotic motherfuckers trollin this board.

don't be so hard on yourself. You'll get wiser. just keep reading the boards :tease:

[winner by choke]

Exposed!

90% of Johnson's defense was his hands. You've obviously never seen him fight.

90%?? Is that a fact??

He was very popular for his ability to parry punches, but when in doubt clinched and pushed people around with his superior size (didn't get the nickname Galveston GIANT for nothing)

And even if this was true...how the fuck do you know?? You've seen as many Johnson fights in real-time speed, as you have seen pussy aka zero.

[winner by choke]

If Tua only weight 180lbs at the time , I think you might want to think again ...

And if he was 5'3 I would think again also. But the fact is he was over 225 when he was solid. And at his prime weight would NEVER lose to someone weighing 160 LBS like Johnson did...let alone by knockout.

[winner by choke]

Yeah , fighters that weight 230lbs that could have afforded to lose 20lbs if they were in peak condition .. :lol:

But 20 LBS lighter would not hit as hard. You think Lamon Brewster or Corrie Sanders could weigh 200 LBS?? That would be sacrificing their power for endurance. While it would help them become lesser fighters, it certainyl would hurt their ability to punch.

[Nobleart]

This is not true. Choynski repeatedly challenged Johnson and was not given a rematch. Jack Johnson ALSO ducked Sam Langford. Against Ketchel he played possum?? Where do you get this bullshit?? Someone obviously has done some faulty editing to wikipedia. Against Johnson he agreed to let the fight go to a draw but was dropped hard and got up and KOed Ketchel.

When did David Tua fight a middleweight?? Certainly you don't mean Chris Byrd, a former heavyweight champion who weighed a solid 215 (bigger than Jack Johnson even, how bout that?)

Louis was never hit by near as big a puncher as Lennox Lewis so it is purely speculation what he would do if he got caught. My guess is be knocked the fuck out. You know, what usually happens when a 250 LBS man hits a 195 LBS one right on the chin.

I know just as much about the era as anybody else who wasn't around during the time. Anybody who thinks because they have read a book with a different account of what happened, or an article by Nat Fleischer, that they somehow know more than someone else who has read numerous books on the same subject is an idiot.

"His 0-1 record vs. 215 LBS solid middleweights"
ahahahaha stupidest thing I have ever read on these boards


Did you just call Chris Byrd a "solid" 215 lber. Guy is softer then a cupcake. If Jack Johnson went on the Chris Byrd diet he'd be a 245 lb'er.

David Tua?

The guy had the lateral movement of a tree. Why is his name even being brought up.

Here's a couple names. Max and Buddy Baer. Why don't you guys go look up their sizes and whether they hit hard or not.

[CleanYourClock]

And if he was 5'3 I would think again also. But the fact is he was over 225 when he was solid. And at his prime weight would NEVER lose to someone weighing 160 LBS like Johnson did...let alone by knockout.

Yes , but Johnson was only 180 at the time ...

Maybe we could get Tua when he was young enough to be 180 and throw him in with experienced Middle weights and then put your theory to the test ....
If you want to go by your standards , Johnson was never KO'd by a Middle weight when he weighed well over 200lbs either ..

[winner by choke]

hahah Chris Byrd is softer than a cupcake?? I suppose Jack Johnson was a mountain of muscle compared to him right?? :dunno:

Max Baer hit hard as fuck...Too bad he put close to no power shots on Joe Louis and was brutalized. Same goes for a guy like Buddy Baer who apparently who have heard nothing of.

A 6'6 240 LBS (giant) who bullrushed his opponents and crushed them on pure size. No chin, no speed. Dropped Louis in their dubious first fight, was knocked out in the rematch in one round. The one flush punch in both fights combined he landed put Louis on his ass.

Neither of those guys hit nearly as hard, have nearly as good a chin, or are nearly as physically strong as David Tua.

Louis complained of how physically strong Rocky Marciano was...who think he could handle Tua??

[CleanYourClock]

But 20 LBS lighter would not hit as hard. You think Lamon Brewster or Corrie Sanders could weigh 200 LBS?? That would be sacrificing their power for endurance. While it would help them become lesser fighters, it certainyl would hurt their ability to punch.

Brewster is a 210 lb fighter fighting in the 230's ...

James Toney is a 200lb fighter fighting in the 230's ....

Your body is stronger when its pulling around extra worthless weight ?
I don't believe this to be true ....
IMO Ruiz was no weaker when he fought Jones. His overall muscle mass remained the same. Toney is still the 200lb version that fought Jirov - he is just fatter and slower because of his weight. His muscle mass is the same. He would have been better off fighting the guys he has been fighting if he still weighed 200lbs instead of having the burden of 35 extra pounds ..

[CleanYourClock]

Did you just call Chris Byrd a "solid" 215 lber. Guy is softer then a cupcake. If Jack Johnson went on the Chris Byrd diet he'd be a 245 lb'er.

David Tua?

The guy had the lateral movement of a tree. Why is his name even being brought up.

Here's a couple names. Max and Buddy Baer. Why don't you guys go look up their sizes and whether they hit hard or not.

Not to mention Bryd ALWAYS states he could easily still make Cruiser weight and even might move down ...
That is far from a solid 215lb fighter .... A solid 215lb fighter would only be able weight 203/205 dehydrated ..... Not 190 ....

[Alabama_Man]

Your body is stronger when its pulling around extra worthless weight ?
..

Isn't that based more on genetics or body type though?

I see these fighters like Fedor, or those guys on "Strongest Man" competitions and they always seem to carry "extra" weight but are strong as an ox. Some of the "chubbier" competitors seem to outmuscle the really cut guys in those competitions even though on paper they weigh almost the same.

Something about that body build... :dunno:

[jaws1216]

just keep reading the boards :tease:

Its only fitting that someone who knows nothing about boxing oversees this gang of retards.

Is anyone arguing that Joe Louis had a better chin than Klitschko, cause thats stupid. You know in keeping with that I think Arturo Gatti could beat Floyd Mayweather if they fought.

Wait, did someone actually say that in seriousness? I wonder who that was...the claims and arguments presented in this thread are proof that science will never cure retardation.

LOL at dsimon's drivel. Not an ounce of ur evolution nonsense is factually based. How bout facts like athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster.

How about facts like world records being shattered constantly. The oldest olympic record still in existence is Bob Beamon's long jump...from 1968. What about all the great marks from Owens and other fabulous athletes of the olden eras. Oh thats right, they pale in comparison.

Simon all you posted was drivel. "Boxing had better trainers and better apprenticeship programs. Fighters had to have more skills. Today's fighters are primarily athletes and only fighters second to that. The old fighters were fighters first, they thought like fighters and boxing was more related to real combat"

"If we had been playing baseball since the stoneage then I doubt baseball players would be better today than 50 years ago. We have been fistfighting since the stone age at least... The anatomical points of how to throw a punch harder are not new to human beings"

unsubstantiated and biased.

You old time loving faggots will serve the earth well when you die. That is all.

[Rubio MHS]

Against Ketchel he played possum?? Where do you get this bullshit?? Someone obviously has done some faulty editing to wikipedia. Against Johnson he agreed to let the fight go to a draw but was dropped hard and got up and KOed Ketchel.Exposed!

That story is a myth - one of many invented by Johnson that were exposed later on - and anyone who's seen the fight knows it's not true.
90%?? Is that a fact?? No. Something like that would be impossible to calculate. ANYONE who's seen him fight knows that most of Johnson's defense was blocks and parries.

He was very popular for his ability to parry punches, but when in doubt clinched and pushed people around with his superior size (didn't get the nickname Galveston GIANT for nothing) Most of his defense was based on blocking and parrying. ANYONE who's seen him fight knows that. You obviously haven't.

And actually, Johnson was famous for fighting larger men. He was only 6'0.25". Here are the heights of some of the people he faced who were taller than he was:

Victor McLagen: 6'3"
Peter Felix: 6'3.5"
Hank Griffin: 6'1"
Jack Jeffries: 6'1'
Joe Butler: 6'1"
Denver Ed Martin: 6'3.5"
Fred Russell: 6'4"
Joe Kennedy: 6'2"
Jim Jeffries: 6'2.5"
Jim Jeffords: 6'4"
"Bombadier" Billy Wells: 6'3"
Tom Cowler: 6'1.5"
"Big" Bill Hartwell: 6'3"
Bearcat Wright: 6'1"
Dynamite Jackson: 6'1"
Floyd Johnson: 6'1"
Jim Johnson: 6'3"
Jess Willard: 6'5" or moreCan you spell "exposed"? You watched some PBS documentary, and think you deserve to have an opinion on this? And even if this was true...how the fuck do you know?? You've seen as many Johnson fights in real-time speed, as you have seen pussy aka zero. I've been married for seven years. Save your childish insults for other pre-teens. There's considerable film of Johnson's career, and many of the fights have been re-sped to normal speed.
A 6'6 240 LBS (giant) who bullrushed his opponents and crushed them on pure size. No chin, no speed. Dropped Louis in their dubious first fight, was knocked out in the rematch in one round. The one flush punch in both fights combined he landed put Louis on his ass.Louis was opening up, you dumbass. Tua, on the other hand, hides in his shell once he gets hit. And calling Louis-B.Baer I dubious? Louis knocked him down four times and Baer's manager didn't want his fighter to suffer anymore, so he put up an act about complaining that the final knockdown was late, which it really wasn't. It was a little after the bell, but it wasn't blatant.
I see these fighters like Fedor, or those guys on "Strongest Man" competitions and they always seem to carry "extra" weight but are strong as an ox. Some of the "chubbier" competitors seem to outmuscle the really cut guys in those competitions even though on paper they weigh almost the same.Being strong is only a minor aspect of being a good boxer. You need speed, timing, defense, balance and a whole bunch of other things. Being overweight, you lose to much.

[Nobleart]

Its only fitting that someone who knows nothing about boxing oversees this gang of retards.

Is anyone arguing that Joe Louis had a better chin than Klitschko, cause thats stupid. You know in keeping with that I think Arturo Gatti could beat Floyd Mayweather if they fought.

Wait, did someone actually say that in seriousness? I wonder who that was...the claims and arguments presented in this thread are proof that science will never cure retardation.

LOL at dsimon's drivel. Not an ounce of ur evolution nonsense is factually based. How bout facts like athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster.

How about facts like world records being shattered constantly. The oldest olympic record still in existence is Bob Beamon's long jump...from 1968. What about all the great marks from Owens and other fabulous athletes of the olden eras. Oh thats right, they pale in comparison.

Simon all you posted was drivel. "Boxing had better trainers and better apprenticeship programs. Fighters had to have more skills. Today's fighters are primarily athletes and only fighters second to that. The old fighters were fighters first, they thought like fighters and boxing was more related to real combat"

"If we had been playing baseball since the stoneage then I doubt baseball players would be better today than 50 years ago. We have been fistfighting since the stone age at least... The anatomical points of how to throw a punch harder are not new to human beings"

unsubstantiated and biased.

You old time loving faggots will serve the earth well when you die. That is all.

Wow, that's some deep fuckin' analysis. Way to fall back on the ever useful bigger, faster, stronger argument with nothing to base it on other then insults.

I love the Jesse Owens vs. Carl Lewis, Maurice Greene arguments. Yeah, that would apply if they punched each others faces in for a living.

You my friend have just officially joined Rubio as part of the "cunt" club.

Now sit down at the buffet and you can smash each other over the head with rocks and such.


Oh, and as far as Joe Louis having a better chin then Wlad.....................I believe you're the only one who brought that up. 30G said that Louis would eventually get to Klit's chin.........he didn't say ones chin was better then the other. Maybe he's just saying Louis is "better" then Klit and would get to his chin before Klit got to Louis's.

Wlad is such a passive fighter when he feels somebody elses power I don't understand how this could be out of the realm of possibility. Louis knocked out lots of guys over 230 lbs..

[winner by choke]

Exposed!

That story is a myth - one of many invented by Johnson that were exposed later on - and anyone who's seen the fight knows it's not true.
No. Something like that would be impossible to calculate. ANYONE who's seen him fight knows that most of Johnson's defense was blocks and parries.

Most of his defense was based on blocking and parrying. ANYONE who's seen him fight knows that. You obviously haven't.

And actually, Johnson was famous for fighting larger men. He was only 6'0.25". Here are the heights of some of the people he faced who were taller than he was:

Victor McLagen: 6'3"
Peter Felix: 6'3.5"
Hank Griffin: 6'1"
Jack Jeffries: 6'1'
Joe Butler: 6'1"
Denver Ed Martin: 6'3.5"
Fred Russell: 6'4"
Joe Kennedy: 6'2"
Jim Jeffries: 6'2.5"
Jim Jeffords: 6'4"
"Bombadier" Billy Wells: 6'3"
Tom Cowler: 6'1.5"
"Big" Bill Hartwell: 6'3"
Bearcat Wright: 6'1"
Dynamite Jackson: 6'1"
Floyd Johnson: 6'1"
Jim Johnson: 6'3"
Jess Willard: 6'5" or moreCan you spell "exposed"? You watched some PBS documentary, and think you deserve to have an opinion on this? I've been married for seven years. Save your childish insults for other pre-teens. There's considerable film of Johnson's career, and many of the fights have been re-sped to normal speed.

Regardless of whether you claim these things are myths or not. They are in more than one book I have read about Jack Johnson. Taller does not equal bigger, and once again you don't the nickname GIANT because u are a small man fighting bigger ones.

Fights have been re-sped?? Source??

Does your mail order bride approve of you being online 24/7 making up multiple personalities?

I've seen all of the weird sped up fights that u have seen and have seen many many clinches. While I have read he was all about hand blocks and parries I take it as revisionist history and go with what I have seen.

Oh and haahahahhahaahhahah for the man who said stop using boxrec then came up with some obscure fighters heights...of the top of your head right?

[dsimon3387]

Wrong. Johnson wasn't "nearly knocked out" against Ketchel. He was knocked down, and played 'possum, taking a nine-count to get Ketchel to open up. And the Choynski fight took place when Johnson was no more than an amateur. Johnson didn't give him a rematch because Choynski retired at about the same time Johnson hit his prime.

It's obvious you know little about the era. What more do you know about Johnson's career?
Based on what? His 0-1 record against middleweights?

Also, one big difference between Louis and Tua is that when Louis got hit, he didn't hide in his shell for the rest of the fight, the way Tua does. Louis wouldn't have fought like as big a bitch as Tua did against Louis.

dsimon writes:

Exactly!:bears: :bears:

Ketchel knocked Johnson down and embarrassed him. That was the extent of it as witnessed by Johnson making a bracelet out of Ketchel's teeth subsequent to the flash knockdown.

Tua couldn't fight for five rounds, much less 15 rounds. I like Choke and all but what a load of crap comparing Tua to Louis.

One could perhaps make the case that Tua could knock Louis down with a hook under the best of circumstances. Louis... knockdowns and all protected his crown against all types of fighters. Incidentally Carnera was also not the dumb beast people make him out to be. I am not so sure he couldn't hurt Klitschko and if he did last past the 5th round with Klit klit would keel over from exhaustion... Canera had a fantastic work rate for a big man.

[dsimon3387]

90%?? Is that a fact??

He was very popular for his ability to parry punches, but when in doubt clinched and pushed people around with his superior size (didn't get the nickname Galveston GIANT for nothing)

And even if this was true...how the fuck do you know?? You've seen as many Johnson fights in real-time speed, as you have seen pussy aka zero.

dsimon writes:

People did a lot of grappling back then Choke. And it was done intelligently the same way it is done today in combatives... to neutralize and to get position on somoene. Fighters just don't know how to fight from the inside anymore. There are exceptions like Hopkins who is a throwback to that era.

[dsimon3387]

Its only fitting that someone who knows nothing about boxing oversees this gang of retards.

Is anyone arguing that Joe Louis had a better chin than Klitschko, cause thats stupid. You know in keeping with that I think Arturo Gatti could beat Floyd Mayweather if they fought.

Wait, did someone actually say that in seriousness? I wonder who that was...the claims and arguments presented in this thread are proof that science will never cure retardation.

LOL at dsimon's drivel. Not an ounce of ur evolution nonsense is factually based. How bout facts like athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster.

How about facts like world records being shattered constantly. The oldest olympic record still in existence is Bob Beamon's long jump...from 1968. What about all the great marks from Owens and other fabulous athletes of the olden eras. Oh thats right, they pale in comparison.

Simon all you posted was drivel. "Boxing had better trainers and better apprenticeship programs. Fighters had to have more skills. Today's fighters are primarily athletes and only fighters second to that. The old fighters were fighters first, they thought like fighters and boxing was more related to real combat"

"If we had been playing baseball since the stoneage then I doubt baseball players would be better today than 50 years ago. We have been fistfighting since the stone age at least... The anatomical points of how to throw a punch harder are not new to human beings"

unsubstantiated and biased.

You old time loving faggots will serve the earth well when you die. That is all.

dsimon writes:

too bad you can't refute it. If somoene were banned for stupidity on this thread you would be entitled to a long vacation in Tahiti:lol: :lol:.

[dsimon3387]

90%?? Is that a fact??

He was very popular for his ability to parry punches, but when in doubt clinched and pushed people around with his superior size (didn't get the nickname Galveston GIANT for nothing)

And even if this was true...how the fuck do you know?? You've seen as many Johnson fights in real-time speed, as you have seen pussy aka zero.

dsimon writes:

I have watched many of Johnson's fights and watched him grapple with people. I have never seen him pushing somoene around with brute force. Usually what I see is him moving his feet and controlling them using leverage in a way that when Helio Gracie used it he could actually neutralize Kimmura for a long time. And Kimmura was a lot stronger than Helio!

Choke watch his feet when he is pushing, his feet are moving and he is invariably setting up for a punch, or moving off a punching line of the opponent so he won't get tagged full force. This is subtlety at work.

What people fail to realize is the subtlety in how the old guys used leverage and infighting. Yes it looks like pushing just like the Gracies look like they are dry humping, but that type of pushing is what helped Evander beat Tyson: By pushing Tyson straight back on his heels (and an elbow or two) Holyfield totally neutralized Tyson's fearful punch. Sometimes you don't see all the things that a guy is doing. Hopkins did the same sort of things. His infighting allowed him to control and dominate and all people kept saying is he is a dirty fighter but there was nothing dirty about it.

[Rubio MHS]

Regardless of whether you claim these things are myths or not. They are in more than one book I have read about Jack Johnson. Taller does not equal bigger, and once again you don't the nickname GIANT because u are a small man fighting bigger ones.It's just a nickname. About 20 fighters of the era used the nickname "Giant." The point is, he did not mostly faced smaller fighters. Many of the fighters who were 5'10" outweighed him. You were wrong, and you were exposed.Fights have been re-sped?? Source??A good number of classic fights were re-sped when they were transfered to video-tape. Really, it's only a matter of changing the reel speed. Does your mail order bride approve of you being online 24/7 making up multiple personalities?You're confusing me with someone else. I've seen all of the weird sped up fights that u have seen and have seen many many clinches. While I have read he was all about hand blocks and parries I take it as revisionist history and go with what I have seen.Clinching was common in fights of the era - not the John Ruiz type of clinching, but getting inside to trade shots, like what Harry Greb, Fritzie Zivic and Jake LaMotta did. Johnson had EXCELLENT blocking abilities, and he didn't clinch any more than the average fighter of the era. Oh and haahahahhahaahhahah for the man who said stop using boxrec then came up with some obscure fighters heights...of the top of your head right? No, I knew that during the "White Hope" era, Johnson fought primarily against fighters who were bigger than he was. I used the Cyber Boxing Zone to quickly get their names; I could have easily named five or so off the top of my head, but it was more fun to completely expose you as the idiot you are by naming nearly 20. Really all you know about Johnson is that his more politically-correct nickname had "giant" in it. At the time, he was often called "Galveston Jack," or "Bad ******" Jack Johnson.

[jaws1216]

dsimon writes:

too bad you can't refute it. If somoene were banned for stupidity on this thread you would be entitled to a long vacation in Tahiti:lol: :lol:.

another great piece of logic.

The easter bunny is real. People had more facial hair in the 11th century than any other era.

prove me wrong

[winner by choke]

dsimon writes:

I have watched many of Johnson's fights and watched him grapple with people. I have never seen him pushing somoene around with brute force. Usually what I see is him moving his feet and controlling them using leverage in a way that when Helio Gracie used it he could actually neutralize Kimmura for a long time. And Kimmura was a lot stronger than Helio!

Choke watch his feet when he is pushing, his feet are moving and he is invariably setting up for a punch, or moving off a punching line of the opponent so he won't get tagged full force. This is subtlety at work.

What people fail to realize is the subtlety in how the old guys used leverage and infighting. Yes it looks like pushing just like the Gracies look like they are dry humping, but that type of pushing is what helped Evander beat Tyson: By pushing Tyson straight back on his heels (and an elbow or two) Holyfield totally neutralized Tyson's fearful punch. Sometimes you don't see all the things that a guy is doing. Hopkins did the same sort of things. His infighting allowed him to control and dominate and all people kept saying is he is a dirty fighter but there was nothing dirty about it.

The only thing that stopped Helio from getting thrown very early in his fight with Kimura was that he was stalling and using the gi...I have played many judo blackbelts my size and was able to stall for a minute or two before they got ippon due to me holding onto their gis much like Master Helio did against Kimura.

But besides that good post.

Although Hopkins was a dirty motherfucker hahaha

[3OG]

He fought far more often then any of these guys you dimwit. And Carnera was dropped like 11 times in one fight alone.

What the fuck kind of logic is that. Getting KD is the same as getting KO'd?

Getting dropped isn't the only issue. Recovery is much more important then whether or not you got caught off balance or with a good shot because of your aggresive offensive style.

Trinidad was very similar. Could get dropped and come back and kick your ass with ease anyway.

That's a very good point!!! I also noticed that alot people think that getting dropped = Chinny. No! Not getting up after flash knock downs = : chinny, bad conditioning, ect. Joe fought sometimes nine fights in less than 2 months. His chances of touching the canvas ratio/kd is skewed. Factor in 6oz gloves and longer fights (12rounds plus); oh and not to mention "Joe Louis came and sit right here one day. I said Joe how old was you when you fought Rock?.......... Joe said he was 131 yrs. old when he fought Rock!!!!" lol:laughing:

[dsimon3387]

The only thing that stopped Helio from getting thrown very early in his fight with Kimura was that he was stalling and using the gi...I have played many judo blackbelts my size and was able to stall for a minute or two before they got ippon due to me holding onto their gis much like Master Helio did against Kimura.

But besides that good post.

Although Hopkins was a dirty motherfucker hahaha

dsimon writes:

In truth that is pretty much all Helio did :lol:. When did Kimura break is arm? was that another fight?

[winner by choke]

dsimon writes:

In truth that is pretty much all Helio did :lol:. When did Kimura break is arm? was that another fight?

No it was the same fight. While Helio was much much weaker (135 LBS very skinny) vs Kimura (5'6" 180 with a bench press of over 400 LBS!) , he was still according the Kimura a blackbelt judo player. Kimura actually choked out Helio early in the fight but Helio didn't tap and went out, and woke up and continued to grapple. Before the fight Helio had told his brother Carlos that he would not tap out no matter what. But when Kimura broke his arm with an omoplata (now known as a kimura) Carlos threw in the towel.

Although it is the same principle of leverage...Without the gi, Helio wouldn't have been able to stand more than 10 seconds with Kimura IMO.

[dsimon3387]

another great piece of logic.

The easter bunny is real. People had more facial hair in the 11th century than any other era.

prove me wrong

dsimon writes:

We have enough evidence to look at older fighters Jaws we don't have enough evidence to know with certaintly who would win mythical match ups.

If you look for things that a fighter looks for you will definitely see things that are very subtle that the older guys did. Choke used a good example about holding the Gi for leverage against a stronger guy in Judo. You may see two guys that look like they are dancing with each other and not realize that one guy is not getting dominated because he has his thumb knuckle in the other guy's cateroid sinus because of a very particular grip on the guys Gi.

It looks like some guys are flailing away but sometimes their footwork, the use of the body in the clinch, etc is neutralizing the opponent. The silly looking stance in the infancy of boxing is another example. It makes it impossible for the guy to walk in and blitzkrieg you because your lead hand is right in his face and you just extend an inch and the jab is thrown. Tyson or Dempsey would have had a hell of a time walking in and crushing a guy who knew how to fight well in this era.

You have to have a fighter's eye to see some of the things going on but there is a lot more to viewing the classical fighters and comparing them on size and film speed.

[jaws1216]

dsimon writes:

We have enough evidence to look at older fighters Jaws we don't have enough evidence to know with certaintly who would win mythical match ups.

If you look for things that a fighter looks for you will definitely see things that are very subtle that the older guys did. Choke used a good example about holding the Gi for leverage against a stronger guy in Judo. You may see two guys that look like they are dancing with each other and not realize that one guy is not getting dominated because he has his thumb knuckle in the other guy's cateroid sinus because of a very particular grip on the guys Gi.

It looks like some guys are flailing away but sometimes their footwork, the use of the body in the clinch, etc is neutralizing the opponent. The silly looking stance in the infancy of boxing is another example. It makes it impossible for the guy to walk in and blitzkrieg you because your lead hand is right in his face and you just extend an inch and the jab is thrown. Tyson or Dempsey would have had a hell of a time walking in and crushing a guy who knew how to fight well in this era.

You have to have a fighter's eye to see some of the things going on but there is a lot more to viewing the classical fighters and comparing them on size and film speed.

idiotic. The easter bunny is real, you can't prove me wrong. How many people hide colored eggs each year?

You have to look at this like a squirrel

[dsimon3387]

No it was the same fight. While Helio was much much weaker (135 LBS very skinny) vs Kimura (5'6" 180 with a bench press of over 400 LBS!) , he was still according the Kimura a blackbelt judo player. Kimura actually choked out Helio early in the fight but Helio didn't tap and went out, and woke up and continued to grapple. Before the fight Helio had told his brother Carlos that he would not tap out no matter what. But when Kimura broke his arm with an omoplata (now known as a kimura) Carlos threw in the towel.

Although it is the same principle of leverage...Without the gi, Helio wouldn't have been able to stand more than 10 seconds with Kimura IMO.

dsimon writes:

Thats true.

[dsimon3387]

idiotic. The easter bunny is real, you can't prove me wrong. How many people hide colored eggs each year?

You have to look at this like a squirrel

dsimon writes:

Face it junior you don't know what to look for. Sly could teach you a thing about the square circle and the track for that matter:lol: :slap: .

There are a lot of silly tantrums you have on line. Nobody can logically refute the material that results from these tantrums, does that give you some measure of solace:lol:.

[jaws1216]

dsimon writes:

Face it junior you don't know what to look for. Sly could teach you a thing about the square circle and the track for that matter:lol: :slap: .

There are a lot of silly tantrums you have on line. Nobody can logically refute the material that results from these tantrums, does that give you some measure of solace:lol:.

I'm just trying to compare the claims you idiots have made with creations of my own. Face it, The easter bunny is real. After all, Tony the tiger said that the easter bunny was tough, obviously that makes it tougher than King Kong

[winner by choke]

dsimon writes:

Face it junior you don't know what to look for. Sly could teach you a thing about the square circle and the track for that matter:lol: :slap: .

There are a lot of silly tantrums you have on line. Nobody can logically refute the material that results from these tantrums, does that give you some measure of solace:lol:.

What kind of track are you talking about?? Del Mar?? Churchill Downs??

Surely you don't mean track and field? :lol:

[Rubio MHS]

I don't see why anyone would listen to Winner by Choke after his exposure in this thread.

[jaws1216]

I don't see why anyone would listen to Winner by Choke after his exposure in this thread.

Wolf! Wolf!

from now on you are a wolf

[Rubio MHS]

Wolf! Wolf!

from now on you are a wolfIs that a reference from Immortal Beloved?

[jaws1216]

Is that a reference from Immortal Beloved?

I don't speak wolf

[Rubio MHS]

I don't speak wolfYou're not so great with English, either.

[winner by choke]

I don't see why anyone would listen to Winner by Choke after his exposure in this thread.

hahahah easy there troll.

nobody was exposed here nearly as bad as you were exposed in ringside: srl.

just because you can look up facts on boxrec about 6'3 Bad Bill Barnes doesn't mean you "exposed" anybody.

especially a poster such as myself who knows many other posters who can verify my boxing knowledge unlike you and your precious search engine skills.

[jaws1216]

You're not so great with English, either.

is that some welfare wit?

[Rubio MHS]

is that some welfare wit?I could have stayed on drugs and disability for the rest of this year. I quit both as soon as possible. For six months, I was basically unable to do anything. I worked through almost half of that, becoming dependent on drugs in the process. In hindsight, I would've been better off being on disability for twice as long. And I taught piano lessons throughout all but the worst three weeks.

[dsimon3387]

What kind of track are you talking about?? Del Mar?? Churchill Downs??

Surely you don't mean track and field? :lol:

dsimon writes:

More like the Preakness:lol:

[Erratic]

Joe Louis has been KD more times than any HW champion by far. If you're contending a chin is the ability to not get KO'd, then you are beyond help. You know who has a great chin? Marvin Hagler, Julio Cesar Chavez, Wayne McColough.

If you weigh over 200 lbs, and one punch from a 175lber puts you on your ass, you don't have a good chin. Is that so hard to understand?

What about Floyd Patterson? Primo Carnera?

[Rubio MHS]

Jaws is obviously wrong on that one - like usual - he's an idiot. Patterson is the modern World Heavyweight Champion who's been knocked down the most. John L. Sullivan was knocked down more times in some of his fights than Louis was in his entire career.

I can't believe that idiot is a moderator in this shithole. I can't wait until he gets canned, so I can put him on my "ignore" list again. He's totally useless.