IF Floyd dominates Oscar....

[slystaff]

Would he deserve mention alongside the Leonards, Durans, Haglers, Robinsons, Alis...or would that not be enough?

Your thoughts?

[steve_dave]

Maybe the Durans and Haglers... but not the Leonards, Alis and Robinsons.

[Rubio MHS]

The only way this fight affects his legacy is if he loses. Oscar is shot.

[Erratic]

Would he deserve mention alongside the Leonards, Durans, Haglers, Robinsons, Alis...or would that not be enough?

Your thoughts?

No, I think he needs to beat some more guys first. Maybe guys like Mosley, Cotto, Hatton, etc..

[slystaff]

The only way this fight affects his legacy is if he loses. Oscar is shot.

Shot? Based on what....his drubbing of Mayorga in his most recent fight?

[Erratic]

Shot? Based on what....his drubbing of Mayorga in his most recent fight?

If Floyd dominates, then people will say "Oscar was shot" afterwards. Rubio is in the minority in thinking Oscar is shot now.

If Floyd wins a competitive fight, I tend to think he'll actually be given more credit for the most part because people will say Oscar was still dangerous. Some will say "Floyd was given problems with a shot Oscar", but for the most part, he'll be given more credit IMO.

[Matchup_Analyzer]

If Floyd KTFO DLH and not with some bodyshot, he will deserve merit..

A win over Mosley and or Cotto would enhance that further

[Rubio MHS]

Shot? Based on what....his drubbing of Mayorga in his most recent fight?Based on him not beating a quality fighter in nearly five years, based on him being easily beaten by Felix Sturm, and based on how even that candy-ass Ricardo Mayorga landing clean on him.

[CleanYourClock]

Oscar is past his best .... However I doubt he will be dominated ...

What if Oscar dominates Floyd ?

What does that do for his legacy ?

[Neil]

Would he deserve mention alongside the Leonards, Durans, Haglers, Robinsons, Alis...or would that not be enough?

Your thoughts?


No. Certainly not based on that victory.

[slystaff]

No. Certainly not based on that victory.

Obviously it wont be based on this victory alone...but this victory in addition to him winning the WBC belt at 130,135,140,147...

[Rubio MHS]

Obviously it wont be based on this victory alone...but this victory in addition to him winning the WBC belt at 130,135,140,147...If you can't already name him the equal of Duran, Ali, Leonard and the others, a win over a shot De la Hoya isn't going to help. This is like Lewis beating Mike Tyson.

[Hanzy]

Obviously it wont be based on this victory alone...but this victory in addition to him winning the WBC belt at 130,135,140,147...

Winning a crappy ass belt mean sh*t if you haven't fought and beaten the best. Beating Judah and Baldomir and claiming himself to be the man at 147....please!:rolleyes:

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

Winning a crappy ass belt mean sh*t if you haven't fought and beaten the best. Beating Judah and Baldomir and claiming himself to be the man at 147....please!:rolleyes:

They were ranked 1 and 2 at 147.

[ILLUMINATI]

IF Mayweather ko's/stops/makes DLH QUIT then yes..he deserve to be mention with those other guys........after all DLH is like 100 years old..and fight once every 2 or 3 years...it should be easy for Mayweather..if he is as good as he says he is..


but if he runs more than he fight like he did against Bumdomir...NOPE...

[*Z*]

You know that is what he's going to do. He can outbox Oscar, he isn't out fighting him though. Baldomir was too big for Floyd to open up on, Oscar is 100 times the fighter Baldomir is.

[ILLUMINATI]

You know that is what he's going to do. He can outbox Oscar, he isn't out fighting him though. Baldomir was too big for Floyd to open up on, Oscar is 100 times the fighter Baldomir is.

then he doesn't get mention amount the duran, leonard, hagler, hearns, whitaker, chavez of boxing...

[dymipepel]

They were ranked 1 and 2 at 147.

Incorrect.
One of them was former absolute, undisputed, true, linear, welterweight champion of the world.
The other one was reigning, defending, absolute, undisputed, true, linear, welterweight champion of the world.

[PetreTG]

If Floyd manages to dominate DLH then absolutely he deserves a great deal of respect as a BOXER.

As a human being Floyd is IMO an embarrassment.

[Father of Muzse]

Would he deserve mention alongside the Leonards, Durans, Haglers, Robinsons, Alis...or would that not be enough?

Your thoughts?

Fuck no.

Oscar's resume still shits on Floyd's.

[dymipepel]

Fuck no.

Oscar's resume still shits on Floyd's.

Oscar's resume shits on Hopkins', as well.
What's your point?

[slystaff]

Grrrtt..purrrnta..grrr..d..ilele...alela..elala..o rrrrnd...galllaa!:rolleyes:

Sorry dude...I don't understand Punjabi..

[Hanzy]

Sorry dude...I don't understand Punjabi..

that sounded more like Tamil

[jaws1216]

neeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiigh.

sorry I don't speak thoroughbred.

[Tam Tam]

Maybe the Durans and Haglers... but not the Leonards, Alis and Robinsons.
Ugh, ugh, ugh. Duran is a greater fighter than any of them.

Mayweather and Duran? Give me a break. This fight isn't even the biggest of Floyd's career. Oscar is a semi-retired, paper champ, with one victory in the past four years. Please stop selling.

[Anthony]

He needs to beat guys like Winky, Ouma, Spinks, etc. If he does well at 154, maybe he could try his hand at 160. Taylor, Sturm, Miranda. He has so many options, and he could win them all. I hope he does.

[KaukipRrr]

He's all hype, mixed in with 1 single 'nice' victory, a stinker to outpoint Castillo, in avenging what should have been a loss..only for the Mexican to be robbed by the Americans that sad day :crafty: . Fraud could perhaps beat Oscar if he runs on a level that should merit a disqualification,..hell,..he may beat Margarito fighting that way too,..it would just be tantamount to what he's been getting away with for years through his indulgence in illegal tactics. If he manages to hyper skitter around the ropes, landing 2 jabs to the tummy per round and 'win' a 'close' fight,..he won't have equalled even HALF, of just one of Mosely's accomplishments....Mosely beat a very PRIME Oscar, probably handing him his first ever 'real' defeat.

[Double L]

Maybe the Durans and Haglers... but not the Leonards, Alis and Robinsons.

Duran is a better fighter all time than Leonard.

[slystaff]

Fuck no.

Oscar's resume still shits on Floyd's.

NOT.....if Floyd beats Oscar.

Names on a fighter's resume are like bikinis:

What they reveal is suggestive but what they conceal is vital.

Oscar lost all of his biggest fights in the eyes of most with the exception of Vargas and Mayorga...who were damaged goods, after the tito beatings...and Chavez who was an old small man.

Oscar lost to or was arguably beaten by Whitaker, Quartey, Trinidad, Hopkins and Mosley...TWICE!!

Floyd has been DOMINANT!

He wiped the floor with the previously undefeated and highly toted Corrales (seen next to Floyd as the top 130lber at the time), beat the top Lightweight Castillo..TWICE (second time..pretty dominant), Genero Hernandez with ease, Gatti with consumate ease, Judah and Baldomir with ease.

Dominance, means more to me than names on a resume...especially when the said fighter has dominated NAMES as well...

[Double L]

NOT.....if Floyd beats Oscar.

Names on a fighter's resume are like bikinis:

What they reveal is suggestive but what they conceal is vital.

Oscar lost all of his biggest fights in the eyes of most with the exception of Vargas and Mayorga...who were damaged goods, after the tito beatings...and Chavez who was an old small man.

Oscar lost to or was arguably beaten by Whitaker, Quartey, Trinidad, Hopkins and Mosley...TWICE!!

Floyd has been DOMINANT!

He wiped the floor with the previously undefeated and highly toted Corrales (seen next to Floyd as the top 130lber at the time), beat the top Lightweight Castillo..TWICE (second time..pretty dominant), Genero Hernandez with ease, Gatti with consumate ease, Judah and Baldomir with ease.

Dominance, means more to me than names on a resume.

so Hernandez is a major win for PBF, but a minor one for ODH? that alone tells you what you need to know.

let me save everyone their time right now. PBF will NOT dominate ODH. shit, it's arguable whether he even dominated Baldomir. and he sure's hell didn't dominate Judah.

[slystaff]

so Hernandez is a major win for PBF, but a minor one for ODH? that alone tells you what you need to know.

let me save everyone their time right now. PBF will NOT dominate ODH. shit, it's arguable whether he even dominated Baldomir. and he sure's hell didn't dominate Judah.

My bad, re..Hernandez.

But...Floyd DEFINITELY dominated Baldomir. If that wasn't domination then I don't know what is?

[LOK]

Floyd is gonna stop him!

DLH will be making tacos soon

[mexican wedding shirt]

Maybe the Durans and Haglers... but not the Leonards, Alis and Robinsons.

Duran is better than all of them. When it really counted and they were both prime, game and well trained, Duran bashed Leonard up.

Clue yourself up on boxing steve dave, especially if you're going to be assigned "admin". Watch the whole of Duran's lightweight career, then his victories over palomino, leonard, moore, barkley etc.

[mikE]

They were ranked 1 and 2 at 147.

Not by anyone who had seen Margarito fight.

[Pascals Wager]

if he picks & pecks his way to a decision, it means very little to me.
If he gets in the trenches & takes DLH's heart I'd be impressed (and amazed).
The thing is, a close fight is good enough for both these guys. That's the problem

[slystaff]

Not by anyone who had seen Margarito fight.

Margarito, Smargarito!

Zab was the man who beat the man who beat the man who beat the man...etc

And Baldomir had beaten that man.

F*ck Margarito

[ILLUMINATI]

Floyd is gonna stop him!

DLH will be making tacos soon

Actually in a few years..the way Mayweather handles money..he will be the one making tacos...:cheer:

[slystaff]

I'm very surprised and disappointed that so many "fans" of the sport would be unwilling to give Floyd much credit if he were to dispose of Oscar on Saturday night.

This is a VERY ambitious move by Floyd: people seem to be underrating this. This is a guy who was a Superfeatherweight not too long ago (Pacquaio's, marquez's, barrera's current weight) and is now willing to fight at Junior Middleweight, against not just anyone...but Oscar De La Hoya...a great champion who recently KOed the iron chinned Mayorga.

This is no easy feat! What's wrong with you guys?:dunno:

[KaukipRrr]

Margarito, Smargarito!

Zab was the man who beat the man who beat the man who beat the man...etc

And Baldomir had beaten that man.

F*ck Margarito

When you look back on Fraud's career, it's plain to see that he doesn't like swarming Mexicans who pressure him relentlessly, and that was back in the days where he held significant size advantages over everyone barr Corrales. He was never, EVER going to realistically face Margarito,..that was definitely a BOLD 'X' marked on his route map to 154.

[slystaff]

When you look back on Fraud's career, it's plain to see that he doesn't like swarming Mexicans who pressure him relentlessly, and that was back in the days where he held significant size advantages over everyone barr Corrales. He was never, EVER going to realistically face Margarito,..that was definitely a BOLD 'X' marked on his route map to 154.

hahahaha!

So I guess Oscar is a much easier fight than Margarito....

[KaukipRrr]

hahahaha!

So I guess Oscar is a much easier fight than Margarito....

No, not much easier, they both have thier strengths,..it's just we've seen Fraud in with intense pressure styles before, and they always give him HELL,..even Augustus had him flustered with pressure,.. Oscar isn't a pressure fighter, but he has GOOD qualities of which Fraud has never dealt with before,..particularly Oscar's tactical skills, his accuracey and his HUGE POWER in that left hook..he's also got an iron-chin,..so basically I figure Oscar's just got this skittish pillow to beat on for 12 rounds, there's nothing much coming back.

[Double L]

I'm very surprised and disappointed that so many "fans" of the sport would be unwilling to give Floyd much credit if he were to dispose of Oscar on Saturday night.

This is a VERY ambitious move by Floyd: people seem to be underrating this. This is a guy who was a Superfeatherweight not too long ago (Pacquaio's, marquez's, barrera's current weight) and is now willing to fight at Junior Middleweight, against not just anyone...but Oscar De La Hoya...a great champion who recently KOed the iron chinned Mayorga.

This is no easy feat! What's wrong with you guys?:dunno:

ambitious? who wouldn't take a fight with ODH? it was either this or get his ass kicked by Margarito. which would you choose? what this is is PBF cashing in on his over-ratedness, before a guy like Paul Williams or Margarito knocks him off.

you'll see this Saturday why PBF refused to face Margarito, and why instead he fought Judah and Baldomir.

[steve_dave]

Ugh, ugh, ugh. Duran is a greater fighter than any of them.

Mayweather and Duran? Give me a break. This fight isn't even the biggest of Floyd's career. Oscar is a semi-retired, paper champ, with one victory in the past four years. Please stop selling.

That post was mostly for the reaction. I just don't like Duran.

[steve_dave]

Duran is better than all of them. When it really counted and they were both prime, game and well trained, Duran bashed Leonard up.

Clue yourself up on boxing steve dave, especially if you're going to be assigned "admin". Watch the whole of Duran's lightweight career, then his victories over palomino, leonard, moore, barkley etc.

I've seen all of those fights.

[Double L]

if he picks & pecks his way to a decision, it means very little to me.
If he gets in the trenches & takes DLH's heart I'd be impressed (and amazed).
The thing is, a close fight is good enough for both these guys. That's the problem

i agree. and basically, that's what he did against Baldomir after about 4 rounds when he couldn't keep Baldomir at bay. so i don't expect that he'll have any other choice if he insists on winning. if he goes in the trenches he will get hurt, no doubt.

[Rubio MHS]

Duran is better than all of them. When it really counted and they were both prime, game and well trained, Duran bashed Leonard up.

Clue yourself up on boxing steve dave, especially if you're going to be assigned "admin". Watch the whole of Duran's lightweight career, then his victories over palomino, leonard, moore, barkley etc.It isn't Ray Leonard's fault that Duran didn't show up 100% for the rematch, it's Roberto Duran's fault. You shouldn't give Duran a pass for that match, or for his other quit-job.

Remember, Roberto Duran quit the same number of times Acelino Freitas did.

[Double L]

nobody's giving Duran a pass. but when a fighter proved as much as he did, it's pretty hard to define him based on one or two quit jobs.

[Trplsec]

This isn't a Hagler-Hearns or Duran-Leonard type of defining moment, but it's close.

[Double L]

This isn't a Hagler-Hearns or Duran-Leonard type of defining moment, but it's close.

i think it's every bit the moment. and the extent that it isn't is strictly a function of boxing's decline in general, not because the fight in and of itself is any less significant.

[Rubio MHS]

nobody's giving Duran a pass. but when a fighter proved as much as he did, it's pretty hard to define him based on one or two quit jobs.You also can't ignore them. I rank Duran about #6 of all time, pound-for-pound, but if he hadn't quit, he'd have a good shot at being #1. Here's my current top 10:

1. Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Sam Langford
6. Roberto Duran
7. Joe Louis
8. Jimmy Wilde
9. Ezzard Charles
10. Benny Leonard

When did Ray Robinson ever quit? He fought until he couldn't stand up against Maxim. Armstrong in his prime was only stopped once, against over 100 knockouts. Ali never quit. Greb broke his arm in a fight once, and spent the rest of the round trying to knock the other guy out. That was one of two stoppages he suffered in his career, which lasted 400 fights. The other was when he was new to the sport. There was no quit in Sam Langford, or anyone besides Duran in my top 10. The only reason Duran's ranked so high is because he was that good.

[Tam Tam]

Shut up, Zac.

[LATIN KING]

Of course Floyd should be given props for dominating Oscar. Even for just beating him. But going into it I give Oscar credit for being a good fighter even if he is past his prime. He still offers a good challenge to anybody.

my problem is with people that only give a fighter props when it's convenient. Alot of people talk about how overrated and shitty Oscar is but when floyd beats him they put that aside and already want credit like he beat a legend.

The same shit happened with GAtti. Floyd beat a warrior but aside from tha fight Gatti is garbage. :rolleyes:

you can't have it both ways. I know alot of people don't like Oscar or Floyd for that matter but it doesn't help your case to digrade a fighter so much and later want to give your fighter credit for beating him. :notallthere:

[Fighter]

I'm going to give props to whoever wins. Here are the reasons why:

Oscar-

-Has been INACTIVE for a year and in prior to that fought close to 2 years prior.
-A win over the current best fighter in the world, who is technically undefeated.

Mayweather-

-Moving up in weight, first fight at 154. Has worked hard to fill frame of welter, jr middle.
-Never been involved in mega event before.
-Despite the inactivity, Oscar perhaps the BEST at 154 right now.

For those picking Oscar, it is known Floyd doesn't like PRESSURE from bigger guys. WHEN was the last time Oscar imposed his size, cutting the ring off on technical boxer?

Mayweather bulked up, who is to know, it will be Floyd doing the chasing? He BETTER for boxing sake. All those casual fans will be incredibly PISSED OFF if he wins a BORING decision.

[Der Tiger]

[QUOTE=Fighter]
-Despite the inactivity, Oscar perhaps the BEST at 154 right now.
QUOTE]

I don't see it, I don't even see an argument for it right now...there's a handful in the division I would give more than a decent chance at beating him including simms, dzinziruk, karmazin, spinks, maybe even ouma who I'm not high on...

[Fighter]

[quote=Fighter]
-Despite the inactivity, Oscar perhaps the BEST at 154 right now.
QUOTE]

I don't see it, I don't even see an argument for it right now...there's a handful in the division I would give more than a decent chance at beating him including simms, dzinziruk, karmazin, spinks, maybe even ouma who I'm not high on...

So you're saying Floyd is only beating the box office king, but no other than the 6th best fighter in the division?

[Tam Tam]

[quote=Der Tiger]

So you're saying Floyd is only beating the box office king, but no other than the 6th best fighter in the division?
Thats about right.

[Der Tiger]

[quote=Der Tiger]

So you're saying Floyd is only beating the box office king, but no other than the 6th best fighter in the division?

I'm saying he could be the 6th best fighter in the division. He hasn't actually beaten anyone of note there in several years. Hence the trinket means nothing, at the end of the day Floyd will end up beating a guy who is first and foremost box office gold, and secondly who used to be an elite fighter across several divisions-who knows what he is now...

[mexican wedding shirt]

That post was mostly for the reaction. I just don't like Duran.

How can you not like Duran? That's almost like not liking boxing.

[mexican wedding shirt]

You also can't ignore them. I rank Duran about #6 of all time, pound-for-pound, but if he hadn't quit, he'd have a good shot at being #1. Here's my current top 10:

1. Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Sam Langford
6. Roberto Duran
7. Joe Louis
8. Jimmy Wilde
9. Ezzard Charles
10. Benny Leonard

When did Ray Robinson ever quit? He fought until he couldn't stand up against Maxim. Armstrong in his prime was only stopped once, against over 100 knockouts. Ali never quit. Greb broke his arm in a fight once, and spent the rest of the round trying to knock the other guy out. That was one of two stoppages he suffered in his career, which lasted 400 fights. The other was when he was new to the sport. There was no quit in Sam Langford, or anyone besides Duran in my top 10. The only reason Duran's ranked so high is because he was that good.


The fact that you rank Ali above Duran just shows how absurd you really are. The only 2 that have an argument to be above him are Robinson and Armstrong.

[Hex-One]

The only way this fight affects his legacy is if he loses. Oscar is shot. How is Oscar shot?:nono:

[slystaff]

[quote=Fighter]
-Despite the inactivity, Oscar perhaps the BEST at 154 right now.
QUOTE]

I don't see it, I don't even see an argument for it right now...there's a handful in the division I would give more than a decent chance at beating him including simms, dzinziruk, karmazin, spinks, maybe even ouma who I'm not high on...

I just don't agree. Ouma, perhaps....but none of the others, and certainly not Spinks.

Oscar is the best at 154 right now.

[slystaff]

The fact that you rank Ali above Duran just shows how absurd you really are. The only 2 that have an argument to be above him are Robinson and Armstrong.

No, YOU are absurd for suggesting that it is absurd for Ali to rank higher than Duran. What's the matter with you?

P4P, Ali is about the fastest moving fighter in history (exceedingly light on his feet for a man over 200lbs)...only Jones, Pep, Mayweather and a handful of others shared his speed of reflexes and his quality of beaten opposition is largely unmatched. Not to mention his handspeed, chin, heart, smarts, adaptibility, stamina, ability to take punishment and dish it out.

This Ali denigrating has to stop!

He may be just above a vegetable nowadays...but don't forget that this man virtually ruled the SPORT for two decades!!

[Der Tiger]

[quote=Der Tiger]

I just don't agree. Ouma, perhaps....but none of the others, and certainly not Spinks.

Oscar is the best at 154 right now.

What gives you that impression?

You just don't want someone to piss on this parade methinks. Sorry old boy but it doesn't take much to undermine the legacy status of this event.

Fact is that Oscar has done zip to merit being called the best at 154, its about as valid as my calling Harry Simon the best at 154 if he was miraculously scheduled to fight floyd this weekend....

No doubt you will cream yourself after floyd's UD this weekend, but with perspective, most will see this fight for what it is..a spectacle but not a legacy-defining match-up

[Hut*Hut]

If you can't already name him the equal of Duran, Ali, Leonard and the others, a win over a shot De la Hoya isn't going to help. This is like Lewis beating Mike Tyson.

Rubio, I generally agree with you dude, but this is just bullshit. Oscar has shown ZERO signs of being shot.:notallthere:

[Hut*Hut]

[QUOTE=slystaff]

What gives you that impression?

You just don't want someone to piss on this parade methinks. Sorry old boy but it doesn't take much to undermine the legacy status of this event.

Fact is that Oscar has done zip to merit being called the best at 154, its about as valid as my calling Harry Simon the best at 154 if he was miraculously scheduled to fight floyd this weekend....

No doubt you will cream yourself after floyd's UD this weekend, but with perspective, most will see this fight for what it is..a spectacle but not a legacy-defining match-up

and who else would you rank?:dunno: Cory Stinks? Sergio Martinez? Oscar would wipe his cock clean with those scrubs.

[Der Tiger]

[QUOTE=Der Tiger]

and who else would you rank?:dunno: Cory Stinks? Sergio Martinez? Oscar would wipe his cock clean with those scrubs.

I've already listed a few who I would give more than a decent shot of beating De la Hoya. Unlike the latter, some of these guys have campaigned regularly at this weight since 2002 and have a handful of victories between them to indicate their present status at 154....I prefer to look at these indices rather than a tune-up against a shot welterweight 12 months ago...

[Double L]

there's no doubt ODH would beat Spinks and Karmazin.

Simms would be a tough fight but I think he'd beat him too.

The only guy I'd probably favor over ODH is Ouma.

Anyways, this is an indictment of PBF, not ODH. If ODH isn't anywhere near the best, why is PBF fighting him? And what does it mean if he wins?

[TKO]

there's no doubt ODH would beat Spinks and Karmazin.

Simms would be a tough fight but I think he'd beat him too.

The only guy I'd probably favor over ODH is Ouma.

Anyways, this is an indictment of PBF, not ODH. If ODH isn't anywhere near the best, why is PBF fighting him? And what does it mean if he wins?


camp fraud believe that shit..

[Der Tiger]

Anyways, this is an indictment of PBF, not ODH. If ODH isn't anywhere near the best, why is PBF fighting him? And what does it mean if he wins?

IMO, it means he fought a former p4p guy who was past his best but whose value in the marketplace predominantly kept him relevant in most people's divisional standings...if he stays and fights the likes of simms, ouma etc., great, otherwise its not a very meaningful stay at 154 IMO...

[Jake]

there's no doubt ODH would beat Spinks and Karmazin.

Simms would be a tough fight but I think he'd beat him too.

The only guy I'd probably favor over ODH is Ouma.
I don't think there's any guarantee that Oscar (today) beats any of them, to be honest. Yes, he's naturally better, but none are going to serve as human punching bags like Mayorga. Karmazin is basic, but tough as hell. Simms' only detterent is inactivity.

DLH-Spinks would be interesting, only because both have crappy stamina. It would basically come down to who's ahead after eight rounds.

Anyways, this is an indictment of PBF, not ODH. If ODH isn't anywhere near the best, why is PBF fighting him?
Um... for $12 million, or whatever he stands to make. His making $8 million against a guy like Baldomir was a one-time deal. Otherwise, he makes more than twice as much against Oscar than he would against anyone else in/near the division (except maybe Shane).

And what does it mean if he wins?
It means that he's still undefeated, still P4P best, and $12 million richer.

[Hut*Hut]

You also can't ignore them. I rank Duran about #6 of all time, pound-for-pound, but if he hadn't quit, he'd have a good shot at being #1. Here's my current top 10:

1. Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Sam Langford
6. Roberto Duran
7. Joe Louis
8. Jimmy Wilde
9. Ezzard Charles
10. Benny Leonard

When did Ray Robinson ever quit? He fought until he couldn't stand up against Maxim. Armstrong in his prime was only stopped once, against over 100 knockouts. Ali never quit. Greb broke his arm in a fight once, and spent the rest of the round trying to knock the other guy out. That was one of two stoppages he suffered in his career, which lasted 400 fights. The other was when he was new to the sport. There was no quit in Sam Langford, or anyone besides Duran in my top 10. The only reason Duran's ranked so high is because he was that good.


So if he had just taken his beating, knowing fine well he was in no shape mentally or physically to compete he would be number 1? Thats a power of Bullshit man. Listen, if Greb had a broken arm and knew fine well he couldn't possibly win it might well make him a greater & more admirable man (*maybe*), but it certainly doesn't make him a greater boxer; boxing I remind you being a sport where success is defined in the winning and losing of boxing matches.

The only argument that could possibly be made for penalizing Duran more for saying 'no mass' rather than sucking up his decision loss would be that we might infer some sort of cowardice or lack of fighting heart from it; cowardice which might reflect badly on the rest of his career. You can do that with Acelino Freitas, Mike Tyson or even Kostya Tszyu. To do it with Duran is just fucking absurd.

In reality your only holding it against him because it rankles a romantic notion of the boxer as noble gladiator, nothing to do with his ability to win or lose fights.

1. Robinson
2. Armstrong
3. Duran

[dsimon3387]

[quote=Jake]I don't think there's any guarantee that Oscar (today) beats any of them, to be honest. Yes, he's naturally better, but none are going to serve as human punching bags like Mayorga. Karmazin is basic, but tough as hell. Simms' only detterent is inactivity.

DLH-Spinks would be interesting, only because both have crappy stamina. It would basically come down to who's ahead after eight rounds.

dsimon writes:

Absolutely. I would bet on Spinks.:bears:

[Double L]

I don't think there's any guarantee that Oscar (today) beats any of them, to be honest. Yes, he's naturally better, but none are going to serve as human punching bags like Mayorga. Karmazin is basic, but tough as hell. Simms' only detterent is inactivity.

DLH-Spinks would be interesting, only because both have crappy stamina. It would basically come down to who's ahead after eight rounds.


Um... for $12 million, or whatever he stands to make. His making $8 million against a guy like Baldomir was a one-time deal. Otherwise, he makes more than twice as much against Oscar than he would against anyone else in/near the division (except maybe Shane).


It means that he's still undefeated, still P4P best, and $12 million richer.

Karmazin is no better than Castillejo. And ODH wiped his ass with him.

And Spinks? Come on. ODH would walk Spinks down and punish him.

Simms, it's tough to say.

There's no guarantee. I agree with you there. But you'd have to make him the favorite over those guys.

[mexican wedding shirt]

No, YOU are absurd for suggesting that it is absurd for Ali to rank higher than Duran. What's the matter with you?

P4P, Ali is about the fastest moving fighter in history (exceedingly light on his feet for a man over 200lbs)...only Jones, Pep, Mayweather and a handful of others shared his speed of reflexes and his quality of beaten opposition is largely unmatched. Not to mention his handspeed, chin, heart, smarts, adaptibility, stamina, ability to take punishment and dish it out.

This Ali denigrating has to stop!

He may be just above a vegetable nowadays...but don't forget that this man virtually ruled the SPORT for two decades!!


Duran accomplished a lot more and was better P4P. Did you see Ali's fights with Norton, Young etc? His only good win is Foreman, that was impressive. When they were both prime, frazier smoked him.

Ali is the most ridiculosly overrated fighter ever. He was as much personality and public figure as sportsman, and that fools casual boxing fans such as yourself.

[Der Tiger]

Karmazin is no better than Castillejo. And ODH wiped his ass with him.

.

Is that the same Castillejo who KO'ed and subsequently narrowly lost to
Felix Sturm, who in turn made De la look foolish for much of their bout ?

Doesn't work that way...I would slightly favor Spinks over de la if they were to fight this weekend, when's the last time de la hoya fought a guy with comparable movement? You can't just turn it on and off, saturday will illustrate that quite clearly IMO

[Double L]

Is that the same Castillejo who KO'ed and subsequently narrowly lost to
Felix Sturm, who in turn made De la look foolish for much of their bout ?

Doesn't work that way...I would slightly favor Spinks over de la if they were to fight this weekend, when's the last time de la hoya fought a guy with comparable movement? You can't just turn it on and off, saturday will illustrate that quite clearly IMO

doesn't work that way? i make no mention of the fact that Castillejo beat Karmazin. that wasn't my point. the point i am making is that he's no better than Castillejo (based on criteria other than the fact that he lost to him).

[Fighter]

So more MEANINGFUL fights would be Margarito, Mosley, Cotto at 147, Hatton, rematch with Castillo at 140?

Is that the reason he preannounced his retirement? Because he doen't want to lose that "O"?

Hopkins only fought the big money fights LATE in his career, but while waiting he CLEANED UP his division.

If at the end of the day, he fought EVERYBODY meaningful in multiple divisions, and has nobody LEFT, then it's ok to retire and be considered a GREAT.

But who aside from us, really knows who the heck Floyd Mayweather jr. is? They will get a glimpse this Saturday but the irony is he says he is GONE after this and his ONLY megafight...

[slystaff]

Duran accomplished a lot more and was better P4P. Did you see Ali's fights with Norton, Young etc? His only good win is Foreman, that was impressive. When they were both prime, frazier smoked him.

Ali is the most ridiculosly overrated fighter ever. He was as much personality and public figure as sportsman, and that fools casual boxing fans such as yourself.

Dude....

Duran beat Leonard..ONCE out of three times...his best ever win. However against the three greatest fighters in his era (Hagler, Hearns and Leonard) his record is 1-4 (stopped twice).

He lost to Benitez (the other great fighter of his era) and when he was still close to prime...lost to Kirkland Laing.

Ali had beaten everyone he ever fought until he was 38 and already had signs of Parkinson's and during this time beat...

Liston, Patterson, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers, Quarry, Ellis, Foster, Bugner, Cooper...basically ALL THE NAMES in the heavyweight division for the 60s and 70s.

[Jake]

Dude....

Duran beat Leonard..ONCE out of three times...his best ever win. However against the three greatest fighters in his era (Hagler, Hearns and Leonard) his record is 1-4 (stopped twice).

He lost to Benitez (the other great fighter of his era) and when he was still close to prime...lost to Kirkland Laing
Hearns' only win in Fab Four matchups came against a 154 lb. version of Duran - who incase you don't recall, spent a decade or so at lightweight before moving up to challenge the much younger Leonard and Hearns, at their natural/optimal weight classes.

Mind you, I'm not necessarily disagreeing that Ali should be considered greater. Just that you have a knack for offering simplistic views on... well, just about every topic, it seems

[slystaff]

Hearns' only win in Fab Four matchups came against a 154 lb. version of Duran - who incase you don't recall, spent a decade or so at lightweight before moving up to challenge the much younger Leonard and Hearns, at their natural/optimal weight classes.

Mind you, I'm not necessarily disagreeing that Ali should be considered greater. Just that you have a knack for offering simplistic views on... well, just about every topic, it seems

I don't always have the time to expand in depth...being at work most of the time. That's why it may appear "simplistic".

But in response:

We're not comparing Duran with Hearns....but Duran with Ali...so that first paragraph is completely irrelevant.

So I may have been simplistic...but you have just been not on point at all...

[Hanzy]

I don't always have the time to expand in depth...being at work most of the time. That's why it may appear "simplistic".

But in response:

We're not comparing Duran with Hearns....but Duran with Ali...so that first paragraph is completely irrelevant.

So I may have been simplistic...but you have just been not on point at all...

:lol: Pull the other one, staff. You're on this board 24/7, and yet you don't have time to 'expand'.:rolleyes:

[slystaff]

:lol: giiirrrddd, bundu...allalepalda, alalallelele.:rolleyes:

Save your nonsense for the early morning gurdwara chanting and leave the boxing discussion to me...:cool:

[Hanzy]

Save your nonsense for the early morning gurdwara chanting and leave the boxing discussion to me...:cool:

Isn't this a prejudice comment towards my race?:dunno:

[slystaff]

Isn't this a prejudice comment towards my race?:dunno:

No...just harmless fun

[Hanzy]

No...just harmless fun

:lol: cool. Now back to the discussion....

[Jake]

I don't always have the time to expand in depth...being at work most of the time. That's why it may appear "simplistic".

But in response:

We're not comparing Duran with Hearns....but Duran with Ali...so that first paragraph is completely irrelevant.

So I may have been simplistic...but you have just been not on point at all...
My point was that Duran was past his prime before he even had his first Fab Four matchup, to counter your citing his 1-4 record in the series as proof that he was inferior to Ali.

You rattle off everyone Ali beat at heavyweight, yet leave Duran's entire pre-Leonard career out of the mix.

[slystaff]

My point was that Duran was past his prime before he even had his first Fab Four matchup, to counter your citing his 1-4 record in the series as proof that he was inferior to Ali.

You rattle off everyone Ali beat at heavyweight, yet leave Duran's entire pre-Leonard career out of the mix.

Anyway...

My whole point...is that it is ludicrous for anyone to take issue with another person who claims that Ali is greater than Duran.

It's not as though it is crystal clear either way. Ya get me?

[Jake]

that's fine, I can agree with that.

[Double L]

...Just that you have a knack for offering simplistic views on... well, just about every topic, it seems....

this cracked me up!!!

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[steve_dave]

How can you not like Duran? That's almost like not liking boxing.

I'm more of a Leonard guy. It takes a certain kinda guy for me to dig the whole "asshole" thing. Duran just rubs me the wrong way. Don't get me wrong, he was great... probably top-10 all-time.

[Rubio MHS]

Of course Floyd should be given props for dominating Oscar. Even for just beating him. But going into it I give Oscar credit for being a good fighter even if he is past his prime. He still offers a good challenge to anybody. Oscar wasn't a good challenge for Felix Sturm, who handled him easily.
The fact that you rank Ali above Duran just shows how absurd you really are. The only 2 that have an argument to be above him are Robinson and Armstrong.Muhammad Ali never quit. Duran did.
Rubio, I generally agree with you dude, but this is just bullshit. Oscar has shown ZERO signs of being shot.:notallthere:Did you miss his fight with Felix Sturm? Javier Castillejo did better - in the rematch!
there's no doubt ODH would beat Spinks and Karmazin. So, De la Hoya beats Spinks three years after losing to Sturm, who's really just a shitty version of Cory Spinks?!?!?
Blah, blah, blah, blah... I want to orally copulate Roberto Duran... I'm a tool...Being a good boxer isn't just about what skills you have, or else Kevin Howard would be the #1 boxer of all time. Duran QUIT when he wasn't even hurt. He wasn't mentally prepared? Fuck him for being a douchebag, then. The ability to be mentally prepared separates the greats from the all-time greats.
Duran accomplished a lot more and was better P4P. Did you see Ali's fights with Norton, Young etc? His only good win is Foreman, that was impressive. When they were both prime, frazier smoked him.

Ali is the most ridiculosly overrated fighter ever. He was as much personality and public figure as sportsman, and that fools casual boxing fans such as yourself.You are gay. Ever hear of Sonny Liston? Joe Frazier? Floyd Patterson? Jimmy Ellis? Jerry Quarry? Oscar Bonavena? Cleveland Williams? Ernie Terrel? Ron Lyle? Earnie Shavers? Zora Folley? George Chuvalo? Bob Foster? Ken Norton? Every single one of them - except Williams who'd been shot and Folley who was old - was better than anyone that Duran beat outside of DeJesus (who beat him, and was dying of AIDS) and Leonard (who made him quit).

Prime-against-prime, Sugar Ray Leonard "smoked" Roberto Duran and made him quit. Ali-Frazier I was a two-round fight.
My point was that Duran was past his prime before he even had his first Fab Four matchup, to counter your citing his 1-4 record in the series as proof that he was inferior to Ali.

You rattle off everyone Ali beat at heavyweight, yet leave Duran's entire pre-Leonard career out of the mix.Jake, I've heard people argue that Duran wasn't in his prime for the first Leonard match, but I've never bought it. Duran's peak was from DeJesus III to Leonard II.

[Double L]

how in the hell is Sturm a shitty version of Spinks? Sturm is like six feet tall, and a middle-weight! Spinks is like, 5'9" and a welter-weight. And they don't fight like each other at all. And don't think because Taylor is fighting Spinks, that SPinks is a middle-weight. On the contrary, the fact that Taylor IS fighting him is virtually evidence that he's NOT a middle-weight.

[KaukipRrr]

how in the hell is Sturm a shitty version of Spinks? Sturm is like six feet tall, and a middle-weight! Spinks is like, 5'9" and a welter-weight. And they don't fight like each other at all. And don't think because Taylor is fighting Spinks, that SPinks is a middle-weight. On the contrary, the fact that Taylor IS fighting him is virtually evidence that he's NOT a middle-weight.

:nono: Well people squeal about Fraud's status as a 'multi division title holder' ..so basically Taylor's clearing out welterweight and junior-middleweight first, he already cleared out middleweight, and ofcourse his son beat the Lightheavyweight champion so that trumps supermiddleweight aswell. 5 Divisions undisputed baby. :cool:

[bigdawg]

Can I ask a quick question about Roberto Duran. WHy is it that when people say Duran lost to Benetiz, Hagler, Hearns, and Leonard 2xs they say well he shouldn't be judged on those fights and that he wasn't at his prime weight and he was old. But then in the very next sentence those same exact people will bring up the Iran Barkley victory and add that to his legacy. I find that when people talk about his career they only want to talk about his lightweight reign and nothing else but then claim that he is this great fighter but never want to do that with other fighters. Why is that? Can anyone provide clarification.

Also if PBF wins or dominates I will be shocked. I'll Holla 5000

[KaukipRrr]

Also if PBF wins or dominates I will be shocked. I'll Holla 5000

:crafty: Nervous?

[Free Ike]

On the contrary, the fact that Taylor IS fighting him is virtually evidence that he's NOT a middle-weight.
That might be the first post you have ever made which didn't make me want to call for your death. :lol: :lol:

[Rubio MHS]

Can I ask a quick question about Roberto Duran. WHy is it that when people say Duran lost to Benetiz, Hagler, Hearns, and Leonard 2xs they say well he shouldn't be judged on those fights and that he wasn't at his prime weight and he was old. But then in the very next sentence those same exact people will bring up the Iran Barkley victory and add that to his legacy. I find that when people talk about his career they only want to talk about his lightweight reign and nothing else but then claim that he is this great fighter but never want to do that with other fighters. Why is that? Can anyone provide clarification.

Also if PBF wins or dominates I will be shocked. I'll Holla 5000Duran didn't beat Barkley. The judges did.

[bigdawg]

:crafty: Nervous?

Hell yeah. WHat do you think. WHen was the last time a owned this many advantages over one of your favorite fighters. I'll Holla 5000

[bigdawg]

Duran didn't beat Barkley. The judges did.

Regardless people still give him credit for that victory. I'll Holla 5000

[KaukipRrr]

Hell yeah. WHat do you think. WHen was the last time a owned this many advantages over one of your favorite fighters. I'll Holla 5000

:dunno: Why's he the favourite to win then?..Overration perhaps?..

[mexican wedding shirt]

Rubio...Ali quit too. Have you not seen his fight against Larry Holmes?

[Hut*Hut]

Did you miss his fight with Felix Sturm? Javier Castillejo did better - in the rematch!


Your a tool. Oscar was carrying ROLLS of fat in that fight, in a weight class he didn't belong in. If Ali came in at a lardy 230lb against George Chuvalo and barely scraped a gift decision would it have marked the end of his prime?:rolleyes:

[mexican wedding shirt]

No, just the same as it didn't with the likes of norton and young. Btw Rubio probably hasn't even seen those fights, he's probably just seen of the many showings of rumble in the jungle and thriller in manilla, the rest are just results he's read on boxrec. He doesn't actually watch boxing, just goes by numbers and results.

If you notice, you'll never actually see him analyze fighters, styles, matchups etc, only talk about odds and results.

Rubio is a crippled sham.

[The Cuban Hawk]

Since every other Floyd/Oscar related thread is being bumped up, I thought this one should too.

:lol:

[The Cuban Hawk]

And to answer the question, YES, if Mayweather did dominate Oscar (even a badly faded one as this was), a case could probably be made that he's one of the greats.

But if he were to, say... oh, I don't know... run and stink his way to eek out a split decision... :lol:

[D MAN]

And to answer the question, YES, if Mayweather did dominate Oscar (even a badly faded one as this was), a case could probably be made that he's one of the greats.

But if he were to, say... oh, I don't know... run and stink his way to eek out a split decision... :lol:

:pray:

Floyd most certainly did not "dominate" Oscar. However, he obviously is a great fighter. Oscar is great too however... Oscar has never been truly dominated.

[TKO]

:pray:

Floyd most certainly did not "dominate" Oscar. However, he obviously is a great fighter. Oscar is great too however... Oscar has never been truly dominated.

Oscar is the man but he didnt fight his fight against little F. But he will the next time:crafty:

[Hex-One]

Would he deserve mention alongside the Leonards, Durans, Haglers, Robinsons, Alis...or would that not be enough?

Your thoughts?
:atu:Your fucking joking right?