Why didn't Pernell Whitaker try to attack Chavez?

[jaws1216]

Chavez was old, pernell was supposedly great, so how come he didn't make more of an effort to hurt Julio

Thoughts?

[Erratic]

He used a lot of movement, lateral and on the backfoot, but at the same time, had occassions where he backed Chavez up, using the forearm and shoulder to push Chavez into the ropes, where he dug in with some nice shots.

The best punched landed in the whole fight was Whitaker's left in the 8th round. He followed up with some hard shots.

[jaws1216]

He used a lot of movement, lateral and on the backfoot, but at the same time, had occassions where he backed Chavez up, using the forearm and shoulder to push Chavez into the ropes, where he dug in with some nice shots.

The best punched landed in the whole fight was Whitaker's left in the 8th round. He followed up with some hard shots.

yeah but great fighters go for the KO, they don't get on their bikes.

Whitaker has a deep history of running, therefore he's not a great fighter.

[Double L]

Chavez was old, pernell was supposedly great, so how come he didn't make more of an effort to hurt Julio

Thoughts?

i don't know. but he's got a "D" on his record as a result.

[mikE]

Because it's easier to get hit when you are attacking.

[jaws1216]

i don't know. but he's got a "D" on his record as a result.

definitely well deserved. I'm tired of hearing about him being a great fighter. Great fighters fight like Gatti and Frazier, runners and scam artists like Whitaker and Mayweather don't deserve to be called great. Only by fooling people with bad eyesight, and taking advantage of their superior footspeed could they ever beat decent fighters

[IMDAZED]

Chavez old? He was considered the best fighter, pound for pound, in the world when they fought.

[Double L]

definitely well deserved. I'm tired of hearing about him being a great fighter. Great fighters fight like Gatti and Frazier, runners and scam artists like Whitaker and Mayweather don't deserve to be called great. Only by fooling people with bad eyesight, and taking advantage of their superior footspeed could they ever beat decent fighters

i see your point. there's more to boxing than face-first brawling. i agree. but don't pretend that everything Whitaker did was pure. the guy used a lot of questionable tactics in there just to avoid getting hit.

and nobody is saying that PBF sucks. i think all they're saying is, they don't like him, they don't like watching him, and they're disappointed in his performance. i don't see how you can debate that given that people are just voicing their personal opinions.

[jaws1216]

i see your point. there's more to boxing than face-first brawling. i agree. but don't pretend that everything Whitaker did was pure. the guy used a lot of questionable tactics in there just to avoid getting hit.

and nobody is saying that PBF sucks. i think all they're saying is, they don't like him, they don't like watching him, and they're disappointed in his performance. i don't see how you can debate that given that people are just voicing their personal opinions.

Whitaker was a cheater just like Floyd and his illegal shoulder roll. I hate watching people disgrace the sport with pure boxing. We need to bring back warriors like Ali and Pepp that always went for the kill, since they were tough.

[IMDAZED]

i see your point. there's more to boxing than face-first brawling. i agree. but don't pretend that everything Whitaker did was pure. the guy used a lot of questionable tactics in there just to avoid getting hit.

and nobody is saying that PBF sucks. i think all they're saying is, they don't like him, they don't like watching him, and they're disappointed in his performance. i don't see how you can debate that given that people are just voicing their personal opinions.

It's a terrible comparison though. DLH had fought once in two years and had lost as many as he won in the past few years as well.

Chavez was undefeated, the favorite, and considered to be the best fighter in the world, pound for pound. He was "supposedly" great.

Dumb, dumb comparison.

[jaws1216]

It's a terrible comparison though. DLH had fought once in two years and had lost as many as he won in the past few years as well.

Chavez was undefeated, the favorite, and considered to be the best fighter in the world, pound for pound. He was "supposedly" great.

Dumb, dumb comparison.

like predicting fights, sarcasm is not one of your strong suits

[IMDAZED]

Chavez was old, pernell was supposedly great

Intelligence isn't one of yours. How you can compare DLH to the CHavez fighting Whitaker shows it.

[KaukipRrr]

Fraud can run to his hearts content, it's when he's cornered and he starts twisting his back and turning his head which is the real problem,..:nono: ,..that style is illegal, your supposed to defend yourself with your hands, it takes 'defensive brilliance' to block 5 or 6 openings with your reflexes, but when Fraud turns his back all those openings dissapear :rolleyes: there's nothing his opponent can do......

[whiskey]

Whitaker wasn't a dumb fighter that's why. There's no way he was going to "go after" Chavez when he was having sucess with what he was doing already.

[Double L]

It's a terrible comparison though. DLH had fought once in two years and had lost as many as he won in the past few years as well.

Chavez was undefeated, the favorite, and considered to be the best fighter in the world, pound for pound. He was "supposedly" great.

Dumb, dumb comparison.

you mean dumb comparison on Jaw's part, right? i think it's kind of a bad comparison because a lot of people hate Whitaker just as they do PBF, and for the same reasons. so he's not really making a case here. in fact, when it comes to personal opinion, and who you enjoy watching fight and who you don't, there's really no case to be made at all.

[IMDAZED]

you mean dumb comparison on Jaw's part, right? i think it's kind of a bad comparison because a lot of people hate Whitaker just as they do PBF, and for the same reasons. so he's not really making a case here. in fact, when it comes to personal opinion, and who you enjoy watching fight and who you don't, there's really no case to be made at all.

Dumb comparison on Jaws part. I didn't enjoy watching Whitaker but I do enjoy watching Floyd, ironically.

[jaws1216]

Intelligence isn't one of yours. How you can compare DLH to the CHavez fighting Whitaker shows it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/facetious

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm

I know NYers love to butcher the english language, but at least in the written word, you can infer I wasn't being serious.

Although when I hear people say Floyd didn't win clear, I think they're being facetious.

[Free Ike]

:lol: :lol: Anyone who responds seriously to this is a dipfuck. Jaws is clearly making a joke.

[IMDAZED]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/facetious

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm

I know NYers love to butcher the english language, but at least in the written word, you can infer I wasn't being serious.

Although when I hear people say Floyd didn't win clear, I think they're being facetious.


Yeah, so getting back to the dumb comparison...

If you're making a style argument, I see your point - although it can be argued that Mayweather has far more pop than Pea.

[Free Ike]

Yeah, so getting back to the dumb comparison...

If you're making a style argument, I see your point - although it can be argued that Mayweather has far more pop than Pea.
Bro, you are smarter than this. He "taking the piss" as our rotten toothed brethran say. It is an obvious dig at Manny Steward.

[IMDAZED]

Bro, you are smarter than this. He "taking the piss" as our rotten toothed brethran say. It is an obvious dig at Manny Steward.

Manny Steward?

<sigh>


I fear for the future.

[jaws1216]

Yeah, so getting back to the dumb comparison...

If you're making a style argument, I see your point - although it can be argued that Mayweather has far more pop than Pea.

SERIOUSNESS ALERT: NOTICE THE LACK OF EXAGGERATION TO FOLLOW

Whitaker and Floyd are alot alike IMO. Neither guy is stunning to watch, although i think Floyd's offense is a little bit better. Floyd won the fight clearly; he controlled the pace, landed the much better punches, showed great defense.

I hate Floyd's persona like no other (besides Roy) but that doesn't cloud my judgeent when I watch him.

[mikE]

Dumb comparison on Jaws part. I didn't enjoy watching Whitaker but I do enjoy watching Floyd, ironically.

Floyd is far more offensive-minded than Whitaker and far more effective at putting hurt on his opponents.
It's not ironic to like one and not the other, imo.

[jaws1216]

Bro, you are smarter than this. He "taking the piss" as our rotten toothed brethran say. It is an obvious dig at Manny Steward.

Is this comprehension of inference. Wow.

See kids, not everyone is stupid

[CleanYourClock]

Floyd is far more offensive-minded than Whitaker and far more effective at putting hurt on his opponents.
It's not ironic to like one and not the other, imo.

WTF :laughing: :laughing:

[Erratic]

Floyd is far more offensive-minded than Whitaker and far more effective at putting hurt on his opponents.
It's not ironic to like one and not the other, imo.

I'm not sure about Mayweather being so much more offensive-minded.

Both guys adjusted their game plans to their opponents, but I've seen Whitaker do his share of trading up close or at mid-range or coming forward and being aggressive (Paez, McGirt, Trinidad, Hurtado).

[CleanYourClock]

SERIOUSNESS ALERT: NOTICE THE LACK OF EXAGGERATION TO FOLLOW

Whitaker and Floyd are alot alike IMO. Neither guy is stunning to watch, although i think Floyd's offense is a little bit better. Floyd won the fight clearly; he controlled the pace, landed the much better punches, showed great defense.

I hate Floyd's persona like no other (besides Roy) but that doesn't cloud my judgeent when I watch him.

Controlled the Pace :lol:

Bro with the exception of like 2 - 3 rounds the most , Oscar controlled the pace ..

[IMDAZED]

SERIOUSNESS ALERT: NOTICE THE LACK OF EXAGGERATION TO FOLLOW

Whitaker and Floyd are alot alike IMO. Neither guy is stunning to watch, although i think Floyd's offense is a little bit better. Floyd won the fight clearly; he controlled the pace, landed the much better punches, showed great defense.

I hate Floyd's persona like no other (besides Roy) but that doesn't cloud my judgeent when I watch him.

Agreed. I thought Floyd won 7-5, 8-4 perhaps. But that's the worst I've seen him in years. He got a lil lumped up too. In fact - I'm reminded of Jones-Ruiz (although Jones was FAR more dominant): Jones looked good but he had slipped a bit. Same with Floyd...

[jaws1216]

Controlled the Pace :lol:

Bro with the exception of like 2 - 3 rounds the most , Oscar controlled the pace ..

:laughing: :laughing:

maybe you shouldn't talk anymore

[jaws1216]

Agreed. I thought Floyd won 7-5, 8-4 perhaps. But that's the worst I've seen him in years. He got a lil lumped up too. In fact - I'm reminded of Jones-Ruiz (although Jones was FAR more dominant): Jones looked good but he had slipped a bit. Same with Floyd...

well I think that's part him fighting at 154, fighting DLH, and I do see a little bit of the hesitance Roy was criticized for.

If I were Floyd I'd run like hell from the Hatton/Ouma type fighters. He doesn't like to trade, and if he fights someone that can go hard 3 minutes of every round I think he's in trouble

[Free Ike]

Agreed. I thought Floyd won 7-5, 8-4 perhaps. But that's the worst I've seen him in years. He got a lil lumped up too. In fact - I'm reminded of Jones-Ruiz (although Jones was FAR more dominant): Jones looked good but he had slipped a bit. Same with Floyd...
I think Floyd got exposed at this weight. Oscar could have shut Floyd out with his jab. He wasn't worried about a counter right. Floyd went into a shell when Oscar jabbed. Oscar bought the hype. He thought, I am bigger, stronger, hit harder I am going to knock this punk out. Teddy Atlas and I were the few people who had the best strategy. Oscar's strength was his length and it worked. He is just a stupid Zombie and wanted to impersonate Micky Ward by walking in and taking shots. I don't think Oscar is a full level below Leonard and Hearns because of skill. He is just not an intelligent fighter.

[CleanYourClock]

:laughing: :laughing:

maybe you shouldn't talk anymore

Maybe you shouldn't ....

When you are in a constant retreat and not the fighter that dictates when an exchange of punches takes place, guess what ?

You are not controlling the pace .. Period , end of fucking story !

[Free Ike]

I think Oscar controlled the pace, undisputedly. Floyd won pretty clearly though. Oscar made the fight and got outlanded in damn near every exchange. Oscar de la Zombie walked in and made the fight though.

[IMDAZED]

well I think that's part him fighting at 154, fighting DLH, and I do see a little bit of the hesitance Roy was criticized for.

If I were Floyd I'd run like hell from the Hatton/Ouma type fighters. He doesn't like to trade, and if he fights someone that can go hard 3 minutes of every round I think he's in trouble

I tabbed Oscar to win a close one but he actually looked even worse than I thought. It wasn't like Floyd was moving up two divisions to fight a heavyweight who STILL outweighed him by 25lbs. He fought a guy who was shot. And while he looked great defensively, he was outworked.

What would have happened if Oscar actually had energy going into the championship rounds? I still would like to see Mr. Mayweather tangle with Antonio Margarito for that reason. And it's why he never will.

[jaws1216]

I think Oscar controlled the pace, undisputedly. Floyd won pretty clearly though. Oscar made the fight and got outlanded in damn near every exchange. Oscar de la Zombie walked in and made the fight though.

apart from a few rounds, were Oscar really pushed, DLH was slow and plodding. In a round where Floyd moves and Oscar simply follows and eats jabs, Floyd is the one making pace. Floyd's pace is the delibrate, 40 punches, minimal danger, etc.

Hatton controls pace with his aggression, Ouma controls pace with his aggression. Mayweather, Hopkins, Jones, control the fight by slowing it down, and in Mayweather/Jones case with feints and movement.

[CleanYourClock]

apart from a few rounds, were Oscar really pushed, DLH was slow and plodding. In a round where Floyd moves and Oscar simply follows and eats jabs, Floyd is the one making pace. Floyd's pace is the delibrate, 40 punches, minimal danger, etc.

Hatton controls pace with his aggression, Ouma controls pace with his aggression. Mayweather, Hopkins, Jones, control the fight by slowing it down, and in Mayweather/Jones case with feints and movement.

Eats jabs , You mean blocked jabs with his gloves - well those that even came close enough to do that ...

Just admit , most of all the exchanges were initiated by DLH ....

[jaws1216]

I tabbed Oscar to win a close one but he actually looked even worse than I thought. It wasn't like Floyd was moving up two divisions to fight a heavyweight who STILL outweighed him by 25lbs. He fought a guy who was shot. And while he looked great defensively, he was outworked.

What would have happened if Oscar actually had energy going into the championship rounds? I still would like to see Mr. Mayweather tangle with Antonio Margarito for that reason. And it's why he never will.

he'd beat Margarito 12-0. Speed kills, and whatever "shotness" Oscar has, he still has faster hands than 90% of guys. Nobody likes getting hit in the face, look at the Baldomir fight and contrast it with Baldomir/Judah. One guy can control the action (Floyd) and the other can't (Judah) And its not like Baldomir got worse overnight, it was the footspeed, the ring intelligence, etc.

[jaws1216]

Eats jabs , You mean blocked jabs with his gloves - well those that even came close enough to do that ...

Just admit , most of all the exchanges were initiated by DLH ....

you are clearly biased beyond reason.

[Free Ike]

apart from a few rounds, were Oscar really pushed, DLH was slow and plodding. In a round where Floyd moves and Oscar simply follows and eats jabs, Floyd is the one making pace. Floyd's pace is the delibrate, 40 punches, minimal danger, etc.

Hatton controls pace with his aggression, Ouma controls pace with his aggression. Mayweather, Hopkins, Jones, control the fight by slowing it down, and in Mayweather/Jones case with feints and movement.
Had Oscar stood there there would have been no fight. Oscar lost, but I don't understand your point. It is nonsense actually. Oscar made the fight. Controlling the pace doesn't mean anything really. Oscar landed nothing and looked like a retarded Zombie. Floyd landed something. Something wins over nothing. The pace that was Oscar.

[mikE]

WTF :laughing: :laughing:

Good luck making a counter argument.

[CleanYourClock]

you are clearly biased beyond reason.

Bro , go watch round 5 that Sly posted ...

You know Sly is a fellow Floyd fan. He posted that round because it was one of Floyds best rounds ..
Floyd did good that round and landed a few good punches....
I won't take that away from him ...

Now , go watch it a take a good long look at HOW MANY air punches he missed and glove punches he threw ...

Even in one of HIS BEST rounds , he missed 95% of all of his punches ..
In one part of the round he throws 5 air jabs in a row ...

[jaws1216]

Had Oscar stood there there would have been no fight. Oscar lost, but I don't understand your point. It is nonsense actually. Oscar made the fight. Controlling the pace doesn't mean anything really. Oscar landed nothing and looked like a retarded Zombie. Floyd landed something. Something wins over nothing. The pace that was Oscar.

Just cause a guy is moving forward doesn't mean he's controlling pace. Mayweather Corrales was fought at Mayweather's pace, even though he was retreating alot of the fight. Floyd made Oscar look like a retarded Zombie. He feinted, circled, threw jabs and repeated. Had Oscar controlled pace, more of the fight would've taken place in those flurries, with Floyd trapped against the ropes. It was alot like Tarver Jones 1 IMO. The five rounds that Tarver won, he did so by forcing the pace, trapping Roy on the ropes. When he was content to sit in the middle of the ring, he got beat handily. When Oscar threw his jab and pushed forward, he did have success. But those instances were few and far between

[mikE]

I'm not sure about Mayweather being so much more offensive-minded.

Both guys adjusted their game plans to their opponents, but I've seen Whitaker do his share of trading up close or at mid-range or coming forward and being aggressive (Paez, McGirt, Trinidad, Hurtado).

Floyd is way more offensive-minded. Look at their records, in particular the (##) part of ##-# (##). It's also a large part of why he gets hit a little more than Whitaker tended to. Just because Floyd went a safer route against the biggest, hardest-hitting opponent he's had to date, doesn't change the first 35 fights of their respective careers.

[Free Ike]

CYC, you really don't think Oscar won. Jaws, Choke, Matchup and myself were watching that fight. Everyone except Jaws was hoping Oscar would stop Floyd. Honestly, I can't see anything more than 8-4 for Floyd. We scored the rounds basically.
1. Who we would give the round to.
2. Who the judges probably liked.
3. What round could possibly go to either guy.


I think 8-4 is the best we could do, but we are just 4 knowledgabel guys and not corrupt.

[CleanYourClock]

Good luck making a counter argument.

There is no point ...

For the most part , younger guys think Floyd was more offensive then Pea .. Maybe when he is fighting bums ... Should we really count that though ?
However when is comes to fighting the higher level opposition , Pea is definetly more offensive ...

[CleanYourClock]

Just cause a guy is moving forward doesn't mean he's controlling pace. Mayweather Corrales was fought at Mayweather's pace, even though he was retreating alot of the fight. Floyd made Oscar look like a retarded Zombie. He feinted, circled, threw jabs and repeated. Had Oscar controlled pace, more of the fight would've taken place in those flurries, with Floyd trapped against the ropes. It was alot like Tarver Jones 1 IMO. The five rounds that Tarver won, he did so by forcing the pace, trapping Roy on the ropes. When he was content to sit in the middle of the ring, he got beat handily. When Oscar threw his jab and pushed forward, he did have success. But those instances were few and far between

Like he said , if Oscar just stood there , no punches would have ever gotten thrown ... End of story ..

[IMDAZED]

he'd beat Margarito 12-0. Speed kills, and whatever "shotness" Oscar has, he still has faster hands than 90% of guys. Nobody likes getting hit in the face, look at the Baldomir fight and contrast it with Baldomir/Judah. One guy can control the action (Floyd) and the other can't (Judah) And its not like Baldomir got worse overnight, it was the footspeed, the ring intelligence, etc.

Antonio Margarito is no Baldomir. Which is why Baldomir flat out REFUSED to fight him.

And Zab Judah would get f*cked in the a** by Margarito. Don't know what your basis is for that 12 rounds to 0 prediction but it shouldn't be based on Floyd's last few opponents because none of them are like Margarito.

[jaws1216]

"If I were a betting man, I'd lay some bread on Baldomir. Why not? A 5-1 favorite who out-sped and out-fought Arturo Gatti, the first true welterweight Mayweather's faced. Add on Uncle Roger's suspension (http://www.fightbeat.com/article_detail.php?AT=210#) (and the fact that his prison sentence kept him away from camp)...Tata's got a good shot. But Floyd is Floyd and he appears extremely focused for this one. I expect it to be a lil' closer than expected, perhaps with Mayweather having to pull out the last couple rounds to earn himself a unanimous decision"

I wonder who said that?...lets contrast that with my thoughts on Baldomir Mayweather...

"“This fight, will once again serve as a coming out party for Floyd Mayweather. It appears he's taking on a challenge this time, appears that he may run into something that he can't handle. The truth is he's a class above everyone else, and as much as I like Baldomir's style and approach to matchmaking, he doesn't have a realistic chance. This will be an easy decision win for Mayweather, who will use his feet to dominate."

Now Baldomir can't hold a candle to Margarito....cmon:nono:

[IMDAZED]

"If I were a betting man, I'd lay some bread on Baldomir. Why not? A 5-1 favorite who out-sped and out-fought Arturo Gatti, the first true welterweight Mayweather's faced. Add on Uncle Roger's suspension (http://www.fightbeat.com/article_detail.php?AT=210#) (and the fact that his prison sentence kept him away from camp)...Tata's got a good shot. But Floyd is Floyd and he appears extremely focused for this one. I expect it to be a lil' closer than expected, perhaps with Mayweather having to pull out the last couple rounds to earn himself a unanimous decision"

I wonder who said that?...lets contrast that with my thoughts on Baldomir Mayweather...

"“This fight, will once again serve as a coming out party for Floyd Mayweather. It appears he's taking on a challenge this time, appears that he may run into something that he can't handle. The truth is he's a class above everyone else, and as much as I like Baldomir's style and approach to matchmaking, he doesn't have a realistic chance. This will be an easy decision win for Mayweather, who will use his feet to dominate."


Now Baldomir can't hold a candle to Margarito....cmon:nono:

i don't understand what that has to do with Margarito??:dunno:

[IMDAZED]

Aaron Jones: Real quality stuff man, what would you think if Floyd took on Spinks rather than Margarito??

Remember that? After my article on Margarito??

[mikE]

There is no point ...

For the most part , younger guys think Floyd was more offensive then Pea .. Maybe when he is fighting bums ... Should we really count that though ?
However when is comes to fighting the higher level opposition , Pea is definetly more offensive ...
Even non-bums, Floyd beats the hell out of usually. He has ko'd title challengers, especially when he didn't hurt his hands.

Whitaker get a ko in a title fight? Lifelong lumberyard employees can count the number of times on one hand.

I'd say it is younger guys who don't think Floyd is more offensive than Pea...the guys who haven't seen Pea fight or haven't sat through his 12 rounds guaranteed performances many, many times.

[IMDAZED]

Even non-bums, Floyd beats the hell out of usually. He has ko'd title challengers, especially when he didn't hurt his hands.

Whitaker get a ko in a title fight? Lifelong lumberyard employees can count the number of times on one hand.

I'd say it is younger guys who don't think Floyd is more offensive than Pea...the guys who haven't seen Pea fight or haven't sat through his 12 rounds guaranteed performances many, many times.

Agreed. Sure Pea stood in the pocket and fought, but he wasn't knocking anyone out. Mayweather has.

[KaukipRrr]

Baldomir is old, small, one dimensional, featherfisted, inaccurate, staminaless, slow of hand and foot and skilless. That oughta have Margarito looking like a deer in headlights. :eeeek:

[steve_dave]

CYC obviously watched the first five or six rounds, saw Oscar was doing OK... and over the second half was too busy talking about how well Oscar was doing while Floyd was winning clearly.

[dymipepel]

Baldomir is old, small, one dimensional, featherfisted, inaccurate, staminaless, slow of hand and foot and skilless. That oughta have Margarito looking like a deer in headlights. :eeeek:

Yep, and with all that baggage, he was good enough to dispose of Clottey much easier then the Fraud did.

[jaws1216]

Aaron Jones: Real quality stuff man, what would you think if Floyd took on Spinks rather than Margarito??

Remember that? After my article on Margarito??

you are a good writer. I don't have to agree with you to appreciate your writing. My point is that you have historically underrated Floyd, and seem to continue in it despite him coming to 154 and beating DLH.

[IMDAZED]

Yep, and with all that baggage, he was good enough to dispose of Clottey much easier then the Fraud did.

Much easier eh? By losing every round and having a harder head?

[Father of Muzse]

Chavez was old, pernell was supposedly great, so how come he didn't make more of an effort to hurt Julio

Thoughts?

Is this a joke? Whitaker hurt Chavez.

Plus, Chavez took more steps backwards than Whitaker did. There were times Pea walked Chavez to the ropes.

Double L once counted the number of clinches in the fight...I asked him to count the number of steps backwards Chavez took vs those of Whitaker...

I've yet to see his findings. :cool:

[IMDAZED]

you are a good writer. I don't have to agree with you to appreciate your writing. My point is that you have historically underrated Floyd, and seem to continue in it despite him coming to 154 and beating DLH.

Historically? How do you figure? Because I picked him to beat Baldomir and picked Oscar to win by SPLIT DECISION?? How many predictions of mine have you seen?? Can you go any further than Baldomir?? Try this one for size:

http://15rounds.com/Columns/kbouhairie/040706.php

MY PREDICTION

Judah may be the naturally bigger, more powerful and, dare I say, faster fighter of the two. That, in itself, makes Saturday’s showdown a dangerous bout for Mayweather. Should Floyd have difficulty landing his jab against the southpaw Judah, he’ll be in for a long night, especially if he’s forced to leap in and out to land his punches. While that technique worked well against lefties like Corley and Sharmba Mitchell, Judah has the speed to catch him coming in and the power to take him out. That scenario could only occur when Mayweather is on the offensive. In order for that to happen, Judah must surprise Mayweather in the same manner Marco Antonio Barrera did Prince Naseem Hamed; box from the outside and force the counter-puncher to take the lead. If not, he’ll walk into Mayweather’s pinpoint shots and either lose the courage to come forward, or lose his focus.

Mayweather will have trouble early on—all fighters do against southpaws—but his superior technique will take over in the middle rounds and he’ll break Zab down, part by part. Mayweather TKO11.

[Free Ike]

Is this a joke? Whitaker hurt Chavez.

Plus, Chavez took more steps backwards than Whitaker did. There were times Pea walked Chavez to the ropes.

Double L once counted the number of clinches in the fight...I asked him to count the number of steps backwards Chavez took vs those of Whitaker...

I've yet to see his findings. :cool:
I want the numbers for clinches for a Ruiz fight and Whitaker. The next time one of you clowns says Pea isn't dull, I can pull them.

[jaws1216]

Historically? How do you figure? Because I picked him to beat Baldomir and picked Oscar to win by SPLIT DECISION?? How many predictions of mine have you seen?? Can you go any further than Baldomir?? Try this one for size:

http://15rounds.com/Columns/kbouhairie/040706.php

MY PREDICTION

Judah may be the naturally bigger, more powerful and, dare I say, faster fighter of the two. That, in itself, makes Saturday’s showdown a dangerous bout for Mayweather. Should Floyd have difficulty landing his jab against the southpaw Judah, he’ll be in for a long night, especially if he’s forced to leap in and out to land his punches. While that technique worked well against lefties like Corley and Sharmba Mitchell, Judah has the speed to catch him coming in and the power to take him out. That scenario could only occur when Mayweather is on the offensive. In order for that to happen, Judah must surprise Mayweather in the same manner Marco Antonio Barrera did Prince Naseem Hamed; box from the outside and force the counter-puncher to take the lead. If not, he’ll walk into Mayweather’s pinpoint shots and either lose the courage to come forward, or lose his focus.

Mayweather will have trouble early on—all fighters do against southpaws—but his superior technique will take over in the middle rounds and he’ll break Zab down, part by part. Mayweather TKO11.

And you picked Gatti to last against him, and you picked Baldomir to give him a good fight, and you picked Oscar to win.

Now you say Baldomir isn't on Margarito's level (based on nothing), that Oscar is shot, that Mayweather is fading...on and on. I'd be interested in seeing your takes on him fighting Corrales or Castillo prior to those fights...

[IMDAZED]

And you picked Gatti to last against him.

I did? Stop talking our of your ass.

[jaws1216]

I did? Stop talking our of your ass.

i thought u said that earlier in this thread, and i couldn't find the picks, if u didn't i take it back, ill stick to ur words about Margarito being alot better than Baldomir, and ur words that Baldomir hada good shot at Mayweather

[CleanYourClock]

Even non-bums, Floyd beats the hell out of usually. He has ko'd title challengers, especially when he didn't hurt his hands.

Whitaker get a ko in a title fight? Lifelong lumberyard employees can count the number of times on one hand.

I'd say it is younger guys who don't think Floyd is more offensive than Pea...the guys who haven't seen Pea fight or haven't sat through his 12 rounds guaranteed performances many, many times.

I disagree
Also KO power has nothing to do with offensive fighting ..
Another thing you left out , as proven time and time again , just because you challenge for a title , this does not quialify you as a "non bum" ...
I really don't think I need to explain that one ...

[CleanYourClock]

CYC obviously watched the first five or six rounds, saw Oscar was doing OK... and over the second half was too busy talking about how well Oscar was doing while Floyd was winning clearly.

:lol: More like the more beers you had , the closer PBF's punches were getting to DLH ....

[steve_dave]

:lol: More like the more beers you had , the closer PBF's punches were getting to DLH ....

Hey man, the guy I thought won got the decision. I have nothing to argue.

[CleanYourClock]

Hey man, the guy I thought won got the decision. I have nothing to argue.

One of the Judges and so far everyone I talked to thought the guy I thought won should have gotten the decision ..

[steve_dave]

One of the Judges and so far everyone I talked to thought the guy I thought won should have gotten the decision ..

Everyone you have talked to. :lol:

[CleanYourClock]

Everyone you have talked to. :lol:

Yes.

Sorry Steve , I like you and all but bro , you made need glasses to see how many missed punches Mayweather threw ..
How many glove to glove contact noise you heard that you mistakenly thought was a landed punch ...

[jaws1216]

Yes.

Sorry Steve , I like you and all but bro , you made need glasses to see how many missed punches Mayweather threw ..
How many glove to glove contact noise you heard that you mistakenly thought was a landed punch ...

u must live at the Wexler institute for the blind

[Free Ike]

:lol: More like the more beers you had , the closer PBF's punches were getting to DLH ....
Beers? Steve couldn't get drunk off of beers. You have NO idea what type of man you are talking about. Steve could have a Beer IV in his veins and still be sober. You have no idea. Chuck Norris wouldn't fuck with Steve and that is a fact!!

[cdogg187]

definitely well deserved. I'm tired of hearing about him being a great fighter. Great fighters fight like Gatti and Frazier, runners and scam artists like Whitaker and Mayweather don't deserve to be called great. Only by fooling people with bad eyesight, and taking advantage of their superior footspeed could they ever beat decent fighters:lol:

[CleanYourClock]

u must live at the Wexler institute for the blind

This coming from a man who initially typed "Whitaker institute" for the blind ... :lol: :lol:
At least you went back and edited the post ...

[CleanYourClock]

Beers? Steve couldn't get drunk off of beers. You have NO idea what type of man you are talking about. Steve could have a Beer IV in his veins and still be sober. You have no idea. Chuck Norris wouldn't fuck with Steve and that is a fact!!

:lol: :lol:

[joony]

why didnt Hagler KO Leonard in 4 rounds? Leonard was old, coming off a loooong layoff and looked like shit 3 years ago against some bum. I guess Hagler isn't great either. :dunno:

[jaws1216]

why didnt Hagler KO Leonard in 4 rounds? Leonard was old, coming off a loooong layoff and looked like shit 3 years ago against some bum. I guess Hagler isn't great either. :dunno:

great point.

Also Hearns didn't KO Wilfredo "glass chin" benitez, idk how Steward can call him great either.

I mean the only great fighter ever is Edwin Valero, and there's still time for him to fade

[ghoster]

For the record, there were times Pernell did. Times in the fight he backed up Chavez and times he hurt Chavez to the body.

[joony]

great point.

Also Hearns didn't KO Wilfredo "glass chin" benitez, idk how Steward can call him great either.

I mean the only great fighter ever is Edwin Valero, and there's still time for him to fade

oh the great historian strikes again! have u seen any of these guys fight live?

[steve_dave]

Beers? Steve couldn't get drunk off of beers. You have NO idea what type of man you are talking about. Steve could have a Beer IV in his veins and still be sober. You have no idea. Chuck Norris wouldn't fuck with Steve and that is a fact!!

Truth.

I can drink 50 beers and still out-score CYC any day of the week.

[jaws1216]

oh the great historian strikes again! have u seen any of these guys fight live?

are you that stupid?

Its good to see our contributors can't understand basic sarcasm

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Chavez was old, pernell was supposedly great, so how come he didn't make more of an effort to hurt Julio

Thoughts?
Whitaker hurting Chavez?
Isn't that like Winky Wright trying to hurt Ibeabuchi?

:dunno:

[Erratic]

Whitaker hurting Chavez?
Isn't that like Winky Wright trying to hurt Ibeabuchi?

:dunno:

Well Whitaker did hurt Chavez in round 8.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Well Whitaker did hurt Chavez in round 8.
Then Chavez is weak! :popcorn: