Steve Smoger should be "Pistol Whipped"

[slystaff]

To coin a Larry Merchant phrase (Jones vs Hall...for you idiots that don't know).

Did he want Miranda killed or something? And what's with Miranda's corner sending him back out to fight another round when it was obvious he was done? Don't people try to protect fighters any more?

I really thought i was about to see another ring fatality.

The man got "EF'd" up!!

[Arben]

Since when did Smoger become a referee that stopped fights too late? I thought that was a stupid comment by the HBO guys.

I thought he did a fine job in the fight. He let the guy rest, he obviously saw Miranda's corner ready to throw in the towel, and waited for the right moment.

[Azazel]

Nah, he stopped it a the perfect time. No doubt Miranda was hurt after the 1st and 2nd kd, but he still had his senses, was firing back and held his hands up. Of course he was hurt, but it's boxing, not figure skating.

[KaukipRrr]

If nothing else, Pavlik has brutal, brutal power, Chico Corrales type of power actually, those ganguly frames seem to generate some serious snap. Maybe some people are right, all of America's great heavyweights ARE playing basketball.

[Ugotabe Kidding]

If nothing else, Pavlik has brutal, brutal power, Chico Corrales type of power actually, those ganguly frames seem to generate some serious snap. Maybe some people are right, all of America's great heavyweights ARE playing basketball.

Pavlik didn't remind me of Chico there. Miranda did, spitting out his mouthpiece on purpose

[Mitchell Kane]

Watching the fight live, it did look like Miranda spit his mouthpiece out after Smoger finished his count of the knockdown (in the sixth round).

If that's the case, I think Smoger really mishandled that situation.

Regardless, I think he could have handled the sixth round better...he seemed to allow Miranda too much time to recover, which might have kept Pantera from being knocked out in the sixth. As it turned out, it didn't matter much as Miranda was all but finished by that point and Pavlik had enough left to finish the job the following round.

[cpa5oh]

Referees are always in a tough position when a guy keeps getting up. I would have taken Miranda spitting his mouthpiece out as a sign that he was done...he did it right in Smoger's face and right when it was time to continue (or make the decision to continue or not.)

[Orthodox Crusader]

If nothing else, Pavlik has brutal, brutal power, Chico Corrales type of power actually, those ganguly frames seem to generate some serious snap. Maybe some people are right, all of America's great heavyweights ARE playing basketball.


I thought it was football. Americas great heavyweights are playing at having the shit knocked out of them. Abraham Ko 11 Kelly Holmes Pavlik.

[dymipepel]

I thought it was football. Americas great heavyweights are playing at having the shit knocked out of them. Abraham Ko 11 Kelly Holmes Pavlik.

You mean, Abraham KOes Pavlik faster than you told us Quitali KOes Maskaev?

[KaukipRrr]

I thought it was football. Americas great heavyweights are playing at having the shit knocked out of them. Abraham Ko 11 Kelly Holmes Pavlik.

Bit of a mixture really, I used to scoff at the basketball reference, now I'm not so sure, those wide and skinny frames are lethal. But oiy, you listen up, Americans are becoming more intelligent, there's a fortune to be made in football and basketball, coz why have ya head punched in for less money?..whereas boxing is the only sport Europeans tend ta play, except for soccer, and w'all know dat therez no money ta be mayde dere...:stir: none at all, so basically it's the entirety of Eutopia against our shadow reserve bench.

[Xplosive]

To coin a Larry Merchant phrase (Jones vs Hall...for you idiots that don't know).

Did he want Miranda killed or something? And what's with Miranda's corner sending him back out to fight another round when it was obvious he was done? Don't people try to protect fighters any more?

I really thought i was about to see another ring fatality.

The man got "EF'd" up!!

The Jones-Hall stoppage was worse, cause Hall had taken a sustained ass whuppin for 10 rounds and not been competitve at all.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Bit of a mixture really, I used to scoff at the basketball reference, now I'm not so sure, those wide and skinny frames are lethal. But oiy, you listen up, Americans are becoming more intelligent, there's a fortune to be made in football and basketball, coz why have ya head punched in for less money?..whereas boxing is the only sport Europeans tend ta play, except for soccer, and w'all know dat therez no money ta be mayde dere...:stir: none at all, so basically it's the entirety of Eutopia against our shadow reserve bench.


:notallthere: :notallthere: :notallthere:

[KaukipRrr]

:notallthere: :notallthere: :notallthere:


:nono: Speaking of soccer that reminds me, you've got an English badge in your avatar, what happenned to the white and green?.....what's the Irish equivalent of an uncle tom?..":notallthere: " ...SUSPICIOUS face, that is..

[Orthodox Crusader]

:nono: Speaking of soccer that reminds me, you've got an English badge in your avatar, what happenned to the white and green?.....what's the Irish equivalent of an uncle tom?..":notallthere: " ...SUSPICIOUS face, that is..



ATHENS BABY. ATHENS. Thats what.

[Nobleart]

I thought the timing of the stoppage was fine. Miranda was still a live dog and Pavlik is open enough defensively that Miranda still had an outside chance to turn it around....................especially after those rights Miranda landed on Pavlik the round before.

It was a brutal beating but I believe you need to give a fighter like Miranda the benefit of the doubt. Smoger also took a point away when he spit out his mouthpiece which was sufficient IMO.

Pavlik didn't complain about the job Smoger did after the fight even when Merchant was goading him into saying do so.

[cpa5oh]

Pavlik didn't complain about the job Smoger did after the fight even when Merchant was goading him into saying do so.

Wonder what he'd have said if he'd have lost?

[Free Ike]

Yeah, he stopped it too soon. I hope that loud mouthed peasant never fights again.

[ArturoGatti]

Since when did Smoger become a referee that stopped fights too late? I thought that was a stupid comment by the HBO guys.

I thought he did a fine job in the fight. He let the guy rest, he obviously saw Miranda's corner ready to throw in the towel, and waited for the right moment.:bears:

Larry Merchant should be pistol-whipped for overreacting like that. Even Pavlik said that he did a good job.

[Arben]

:bears:

Larry Merchant should be pistol-whipped for overreacting like that. Even Pavlik said that he did a good job.
Exactly.

He did not take any extra time away to parade Miranda around the ring and take a point away. He told the judges after the round was over.

He walked Miranda over to get his mouthpiece back in as quickly as he could.


My only beef was that he didn't take 2 peoints away for a foul committed on purpose.



But since when has he become a referee known for late stoppages? Total bullshit.

[Rubio MHS]

To coin a Larry Merchant phrase (Jones vs Hall...for you idiots that don't know).That's not "coining" a phrase; that's "using" a phrase (for you idiots that don't know).

[ILLUMINATI]

Smogger is a GOOD REF one of the best....HE musta said something to the HBO crew...or said something negative about hbo...

Merchant and Lampley were saying some LIES about Smogger...

[Orthodox Crusader]

There was one moment when Smoger's performance did raise a few eyebrows. On March 6, 1999, Lou Savarese fought Lance Whitaker in Atlantic City. Savarese hit the canvas twice. The second time, discretion being the better part of valour, he showed little inclination to rise. Smoger gave him a bit more time and a bit more encouragement than some onlookers thought appropriate. Savarese rose at what seemed to be the count of nine-and-three-quarters and went on to win the fight.


From a Thomas Hauser "article"...
http://www.secondsout.com/usa/colhauser.cfm?ccs=208&cs=12139

[Arben]

Smogger is a GOOD REF one of the best....HE musta said something to the HBO crew...or said something negative about hbo...

Merchant and Lampley were saying some LIES about Smogger...
I think it was a case of keeping fans tuned in. Remember, the average boxing fan is really a fan of violence; not boxing.

[Nobleart]

But since when has he become a referee known for late stoppages? Total bullshit.


Maybe they were mistaking him for Frank Cuppacoffee.

[IMDAZED]

That's not "coining" a phrase; that's "using" a phrase (for you idiots that don't know).

You, my friend, need to go out and get laid.

[Arben]

There was one moment when Smoger's performance did raise a few eyebrows. On March 6, 1999, Lou Savarese fought Lance Whitaker in Atlantic City. Savarese hit the canvas twice. The second time, discretion being the better part of valour, he showed little inclination to rise. Smoger gave him a bit more time and a bit more encouragement than some onlookers thought appropriate. Savarese rose at what seemed to be the count of nine-and-three-quarters and went on to win the fight.


From a Thomas Hauser "article"...
http://www.secondsout.com/usa/colhauser.cfm?ccs=208&cs=12139
So one fight?

[Orthodox Crusader]

Maybe they were mistaking him for Frank Cuppacoffee.


Lampley:" Frank Cappucino, you can stop it anytime"

Frank: "Nah fuck that, think I'll stand here and watch"

[Orthodox Crusader]

So one fight?


I just posted that for people to read:dunno: :dunno:

[Arben]

I just posted that for people to read:dunno: :dunno:
It's actually a good read.

[Rubio MHS]

You, my friend, need to go out and get laid.As a matter of fact, I just did.

[Orthodox Crusader]

As a matter of fact, I just did.

What was his name?

[Rubio MHS]

My wife.

[Orthodox Crusader]

My wife.

Yeah, your wife, whats his name??

[ILLUMINATI]

:lol::lol:

[Rubio MHS]

You wouldn't be so happy if I told you her name. She's not white. I'm a race mixer. We even have a child.

[Orthodox Crusader]

You wouldn't be so happy if I told you her name. She's not white. I'm a race mixer. We even have a child.


http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n0/n809.jpg

DOES HE LOOK LIKE THIS??

[Rubio MHS]

This is getting boring. Come up with something new for once.

[Orthodox Crusader]

This is getting boring. Come up with something new for once.

Dude....your sig is disgusting.

[Rubio MHS]

I know. Isn't it great?

[StingerKarl]

I watched it again, and I thought Steve did a good job controlling the rough action in there.
I thought it was stopped at just the right time, but I can see how some folks thought he let it go on longer than it should have.
If Miranda was my guy, I would have stopped it in the corner after he was decked twice as there is no need to ruin a fighter.
He shot his mouth off and couldn't back it up, a lot like Tyson did vs. Lewis, but Miranda took his ass kicking like a man and didn't quit unlike some others have the past several years when the going got tough.

[mikE]

I thought the timing of the stoppage was fine. Miranda was still a live dog and Pavlik is open enough defensively that Miranda still had an outside chance to turn it around....................especially after those rights Miranda landed on Pavlik the round before.

It was a brutal beating but I believe you need to give a fighter like Miranda the benefit of the doubt. Smoger also took a point away when he spit out his mouthpiece which was sufficient IMO.

Pavlik didn't complain about the job Smoger did after the fight even when Merchant was goading him into saying do so.

1st paragraph agree.

3rd paragraph agree.

2nd paragraph...I think he should have taken away 2 points. One point, imo, is more like what you 'think' is intentional, but happens when the guy is on the canvas, not when he stands up, listens to you count, and this spits it out in your face. Yeah, Smoger could have ended the fight when Miranda did that, but I like the 2 pt option better.

[Rubio MHS]

2nd paragraph...I think he should have taken away 2 points. One point, imo, is more like what you 'think' is intentional, but happens when the guy is on the canvas, not when he stands up, listens to you count, and this spits it out in your face. Yeah, Smoger could have ended the fight when Miranda did that, but I like the 2 pt option better.That's right. It was a WBC fight. Smoger should've taken away two points.

[Mitchell Kane]

1st paragraph agree.

3rd paragraph agree.

2nd paragraph...I think he should have taken away 2 points. One point, imo, is more like what you 'think' is intentional, but happens when the guy is on the canvas, not when he stands up, listens to you count, and this spits it out in your face. Yeah, Smoger could have ended the fight when Miranda did that, but I like the 2 pt option better.

Part of me thinks he should have just taken it as a sign of resignation and called the fight.

It's bs that fighters can spit out their mouthpiece after a knockdown and buy time to recover.

I almost think the fighter should have to fight without the mouthpiece the remainder of the round.

[Rubio MHS]

Part of me thinks he should have just taken it as a sign of resignation and called the fight.I'm glad you're not a referee.

[Mitchell Kane]

I'm glad you're not a referee.

He spit the mouthpiece out after he finished the count.

That's a sign Miranda certainly didn't want to fight without more time to rest.

Miranda wasn't going to win a decision by that point...what does a one or two point deduction matter to him?

It's becoming too easy for fighters to buy time they shouldn't be allowed following knockdowns and I don't think point deductions are enough of a penalty for it.

[mikE]

I almost think the fighter should have to fight without the mouthpiece the remainder of the round.

Well, it would certainly be fair to make the guy fight until there is a lull in the boxing, but...

sometimes a guy seems like he is okay, but he gets friggin clocked with the next punch the guy throws. Now imagine that the guy's teeth go through his lips and cheeks...so even if it is 'more fair', it's too risky for the sport.

[mikE]

He spit the mouthpiece out after he finished the count.

That's a sign Miranda certainly didn't want to fight without more time to rest.

Miranda wasn't going to win a decision by that point...what does a one or two point deduction matter to him?

It's becoming too easy for fighters to buy time they shouldn't be allowed following knockdowns and I don't think point deductions are enough of a penalty for it.

It's not 'becoming too easy', it's been this way as long as I can remember.

When a guy tackles his opponent trying to buy time, it is often called a knockdown pretty much meaning that the guy loses a point, similar to the penalty for spitting out a mouthpiece. Likewise, when you do either, you put yourself at risk of the ref stopping it.

While I agree with much of what you are saying, I don't see a better alternative. And with the way fights are scored, a guy can almost never be sure that he isn't in the fight...for instance, spinks could have been knocked down twice in the last round and still one the fight on one card.

[Mitchell Kane]

Well, it would certainly be fair to make the guy fight until there is a lull in the boxing, but...

sometimes a guy seems like he is okay, but he gets friggin clocked with the next punch the guy throws. Now imagine that the guy's teeth go through his lips and cheeks...so even if it is 'more fair', it's too risky for the sport.

I wouldn't actually support making a fighter fight the rest of a round without his mouthpiece. I was just writing that for effect, it's not practical.

[Free Ike]

Smoger was 100 percent correct and Merchant should apologize over the air for being clearly wrong. He had to wash out the mouthpiece and put it back in. He also took the point after the round not pausing and pointing to the judges.

[Nobleart]

It's not 'becoming too easy', it's been this way as long as I can remember.

When a guy tackles his opponent trying to buy time, it is often called a knockdown pretty much meaning that the guy loses a point, similar to the penalty for spitting out a mouthpiece. Likewise, when you do either, you put yourself at risk of the ref stopping it.

While I agree with much of what you are saying, I don't see a better alternative. And with the way fights are scored, a guy can almost never be sure that he isn't in the fight...for instance, spinks could have been knocked down twice in the last round and still one the fight on one card.


Agree, you can nut a guy in the balls to. Shit's going to happen sometimes and a smart fighter is going to take advantage of every loophole he can to buy time sometimes.

People act pissed off over what Coralles and Miranda did and then the same people get pissed when another fighter quits in the ring. Coralles and Miranda were doing everything they could do to stay in a fight during times when they were obviously very hurt.

Penalize them if you have to but I think it would be stupid to DQ them. If they keep getting knocked down and doing it over and over it's going to get stopped eventually anyways.

[dsimon3387]

You wouldn't be so happy if I told you her name. She's not white. I'm a race mixer. We even have a child.

dsimon writes:

:lol: :lol: Ouuuuchchchcch!

[dsimon3387]

dsimon writes:

Steve is a great ref. Boxing is a sport and athletes do find loopholes, part of the game.

[Matchup_Analyzer]

Smoger is one of the better refs, we've seen too many fights get stopped too early recently and that probably prompted him to let this one go on, though I admit a little too long, as much as I dislike Miranda I hope he's OK

[Azazel]

I don't get the "he should have called off the fight since it was obvious Miranda was trying to buy time to recuperate", of course he was, but, if he had taken a knee soon after rising, it would have been basically the same ( in fact, Miranda would have had more time to recuperate, don't know if there's the 3 kd rules was in effect thougt ), so to take 1 point after intentionnaly spitting your mouthpiece was the appropriate move to make. Good call as usual by Smoger, one of the few good ref in the game.

[Mitchell Kane]

I don't get the "he should have called off the fight since it was obvious Miranda was trying to buy time to recuperate", of course he was, but, if he had taken a knee soon after rising, it would have been basically the same ( in fact, Miranda would have had more time to recuperate, don't know if there's the 3 kd rules was in effect thougt ), so to take 1 point after intentionnaly spitting your mouthpiece was the appropriate move to make. Good call as usual by Smoger, one of the few good ref in the game.

I said it because he spit the mouthpiece out after Smoger's count of the knockdown, when he was on his feet being asked if he was ok/wanted to continue.

He didn't spit it out as soon as he hit the canvas, he did it when he was standing up...just as Smoger appeared ready to restart the fight.

Smoger had his gloves and appeared to be wiping them off and about to signal the fight to resume...Miranda obviously knew that, which is why he waited until then to spit his mouthpiece out.

[Rubio MHS]

Actually, that'd be a cool new rule: Fuck with me by spitting out the mouthpiece and making me pick it up and rinse it off, and I get to let the other guy beat you to death.

[Mitchell Kane]

Actually, that'd be a cool new rule: Fuck with me by spitting out the mouthpiece and making me pick it up and rinse it off, and I get to let the other guy beat you to death.

Miranda's actions were not those of a fighter who wanted to continue, IMO, and I think Smoger would have been well within his right to call the fight at that point.

I wasn't being serious about the comments of making a fighter - who spits out his mouthpiece on purpose following a knockdown - to fight the rest of the round without it.

However, it's quite ridiculous to act as though fighters haven't fought for significant stretches without a mouhtpiece. There's plenty of examples of fights where a mouthpiece becomes dislodged during a fight and a referee waits until a lull in the action to replace it.

But I'm sure the referees were just waiting around to allow "the other guy beat you to death".:rolleyes:

[Rubio MHS]

However, it's quite ridiculous to act as though fighters haven't fought for significant stretches without a mouhtpiece. There's plenty of examples of fights where a mouthpiece becomes dislodged during a fight and a referee waits until a lull in the action to replace it.Yeah, but by definition, there's a lull in the action when the knockdown occurs. What's he supposed to do? Wait until there's another lull in the action? Miranda spit out his mouthpiece as a survival tactic. Yes, it was blatant, but so was Corrales against Castillo.

[Neil]

merchant got so upset because with age he has more trouble disguising his biases. he strongly desired a victory for the humble white kid.

[Arben]

A mouthpiece does alot more than just protect a fighter's teeth. Letting Miranda continue without it would be far worse than letting him take more of a beating.

[Jake]

merchant got so upset because with age he has more trouble disguising his biases. he strongly desired a victory for the humble white kid.
perhaps, but even if so, it was necessary for the sake of balance, as Lampley spent every free moment prior to Berto's fight gushing about Miranda to anyone within earshot.

I agree with Mitchell Kane in that the only way Smoger could've handed the situation w/ the mouthpiece any better was by taking it as a sign that Miranda didn't want to continue. And to make it clear, I'm not suggesting that Smoger SHOULD HAVE stopped the fight - just that if he did it strictly by the rulebook, he could have.

Otherwise, as mentioned earlier in the thread (I think it was Arben), Smoger handled it as well as you could have. He immediately ushered Miranda to his corner, and while they rinsed off and re-inserted the mouthpiece, Smoger yelled out to all three judges that he was docking a point.

At the end of the round, he by himself walked over to each judge to remind them that a point was being docked. He didn't call time and escort Miranda from corner to corner as most other refs do - THAT would've granted Miranda extra rest time.

The only thing Smoger could've done different (without actually stopping the fight) was stick his hand up and shove the m/p back in Miranda's mouth the moment Edison attempted to spit it out.

I thought the stoppage was fine as well. He could've stopped it after the 2nd knockdown in the 6th, but from my recollection there wasn't much longer left in the round. In the corner, Bonilla yelled at Miranda that if he didn't show him something, he himself was stopping the fight. He spent the entire 7th round (however long it lasted), on the corner steps, ready to climb up one more step to stop it. Smoger stepped in as soon as Miranda collapsed.

I thought he used his discretion well. Far less experienced refs would've had a panic attack probably beginning with the mouthpiece issue.

[IMDAZED]

perhaps, but even if so, it was necessary for the sake of balance, as Lampley spent every free moment prior to Berto's fight gushing about Miranda to anyone within earshot.

I agree with Mitchell Kane in that the only way Smoger could've handed the situation w/ the mouthpiece any better was by taking it as a sign that Miranda didn't want to continue. And to make it clear, I'm not suggesting that Smoger SHOULD HAVE stopped the fight - just that if he did it strictly by the rulebook, he could have.

Otherwise, as mentioned earlier in the thread (I think it was Arben), Smoger handled it as well as you could have. He immediately ushered Miranda to his corner, and while they rinsed off and re-inserted the mouthpiece, Smoger yelled out to all three judges that he was docking a point.

At the end of the round, he by himself walked over to each judge to remind them that a point was being docked. He didn't call time and escort Miranda from corner to corner as most other refs do - THAT would've granted Miranda extra rest time.

The only thing Smoger could've done different (without actually stopping the fight) was stick his hand up and shove the m/p back in Miranda's mouth the moment Edison attempted to spit it out.

I thought the stoppage was fine as well. He could've stopped it after the 2nd knockdown in the 6th, but from my recollection there wasn't much longer left in the round. In the corner, Bonilla yelled at Miranda that if he didn't show him something, he himself was stopping the fight. He spent the entire 7th round (however long it lasted), on the corner steps, ready to climb up one more step to stop it. Smoger stepped in as soon as Miranda collapsed.

I thought he used his discretion well. Far less experienced refs would've had a panic attack probably beginning with the mouthpiece issue.

Exactly. Plus, he spared us any excuses from the Miranda camp about an early stoppage by letting it go until the brutal end.

[Arben]

Exactly. Plus, he spared us any excuses from the Miranda camp about an early stoppage by letting it go until the brutal end.
...and press releases.

[Jake]

...and press releases.
Their "best" was the Friday morning edition, where they claimed Miranda stole the show at the pre-fight presser. I didn't check my e-mails until after the weigh-in, at which point my response was "Amidst all that gabbing, Pantera accidentally swallowed an extra pound." :lol:

To his credit, though, Miranda took the beating like a man, both in the ring and after the fight. He didn't have much to say to the media, other than a random quote to a Florida newspaper writer that he got his ass-whipped, and that great fighters always come back.

[dsimon3387]

merchant got so upset because with age he has more trouble disguising his biases. he strongly desired a victory for the humble white kid.

dsimon writes:

You don't read Merchant right Neil. Merchant is cantenkerious but he is not a Jack London journalist (white hope). He was wrong about Smoger but lets not go off the opposite end here.

[Jake]

In just watching the replay, the only part where Smoger did mess up is in not calling time out. He himself allowed little time to be wasted in the process and not giving Miranda any more recovery time, but the process denied Pavlik an extra :13 to possibly finish him off in that round.

Miranda went down again about :15 after action resumed, which means Kelly would've possibly had close to :20 left in the round by the time action once again resumed following the second knockdown.

[Erratic]

Smoger, one of the best refs in the sport, did a good job as usual. Larry was probably just drunk again or something.

[Rubio MHS]

Don't be too hard on Sly. All he can really do is repeat what he's heard other people say.

[slystaff]

Don't be too hard on Sly. All he can really do is repeat what he's heard other people say.

Actually, my complaint with Steve Smoger is a different one to which Larry Merchant was complaining about... (if you short term memory would allow you to remember the first post of the thread)

I'm not talking about the whole spitting out of the mouthpiece and the way that was handled. I don't care about that to be honest.

My complaint is that he didn't stop the fight sooner. Mirander could have been badly hurt. He was DONE two rounds before the stoppage and really didn't want to fight...but with too much pride to quit he kept plodding back and trying to throw punches although his expression oozed discouragement as he knew he was outgunned.

His head was just a punching bag at the end and Smoger should have realized this and not wait for a third (or was it fourth) knowdown before jumping in like the hero....

[valdosta]

2 rounds before Miranda was KO'ed he had a decent round 5. Then he was doing OK in round 6 when he got bashed and dropped 2 times. if you think it should have been stopped in round 6 then that is fine. Not round 5 though which was arguably Miranda's best round of the whole fight. :lol:

[Free Ike]

I read one of the judges still had Mierda ahead after the 10-6 rounds. It was a thread at another forum. Any proof to this? At best, Mierda won two of the 7 rounds. I think 2 and 5. He got straight up assraped in 1,3,4,6 and 7.

[ElTerriblee]

Are American rings very dirty??? I always wonder why you have to clean up the mouthpiece. Don´t want it to get dirty, don´t spit it on the ground. :dunno:

[slystaff]

2 rounds before Miranda was KO'ed he had a decent round 5. Then he was doing OK in round 6 when he got bashed and dropped 2 times. if you think it should have been stopped in round 6 then that is fine. Not round 5 though which was arguably Miranda's best round of the whole fight. :lol:

Correct. My bad....one round before. :doh:

[Rubio MHS]

Actually, my complaint with Steve Smoger is a different one to which Larry Merchant was complaining about... (if you short term memory would allow you to remember the first post of the thread)I didn't read the first post of this thread. I usually pay little mind to your mindless threads. In fact, I didn't read the rest of your post.

[Jake]

I read one of the judges still had Mierda ahead after the 10-6 rounds. It was a thread at another forum. Any proof to this? At best, Mierda won two of the 7 rounds. I think 2 and 5. He got straight up assraped in 1,3,4,6 and 7.
no, that's absolute bullshit. Whoever claimed that is full of shit. Pavlik was up 58-53 on two cards (4 rounds to 2 - as you said, the 2nd and 5th going to Mierda). A third judge somehow had it 3-3 in rounds, but 57-54 due to the 2 kd's and point deduction.

[Free Ike]

no, that's absolute bullshit. Whoever claimed that is full of shit. Pavlik was up 58-53 on two cards (4 rounds to 2 - as you said, the 2nd and 5th going to Mierda). A third judge somehow had it 3-3 in rounds, but 57-54 due to the 2 kd's and point deduction.
Thanks. I was having trouble finding proof. I figured had it been true, it would be a big deal. Still, even in rounds. That is tough. I like to score even rounds as everybody knows, but worst case for Pavlik, imo, is 4-2. I thought the two close rounds were pretty even. Mierda landed some great sharp rights hands in the 5th but was losing the round until then and it was toward the end.

[valdosta]

no, that's absolute bullshit. Whoever claimed that is full of shit. Pavlik was up 58-53 on two cards (4 rounds to 2 - as you said, the 2nd and 5th going to Mierda). A third judge somehow had it 3-3 in rounds, but 57-54 due to the 2 kd's and point deduction.
Boxingtalk said they had it as a draw after 5 .

[Jake]

Well, George almost got it right. Pavlik was up 3-2 on two of the cards after five, and Miranda up by the same score on the third card.

After round 6, which Pavik won 10-6, he was up 58-53 on two cards (as well as mine and almost everyone else's) and 57-54 on the third card.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Well, George almost got it right. Pavlik was up 3-2 on two of the cards after five, and Miranda up by the same score on the third card.

After round 6, which Pavik won 10-6, he was up 58-53 on two cards (as well as mine and almost everyone else's) and 57-54 on the third card.

Interesting....I never made anything of the point deduction, so when I saw your 10-6 round, I was trying to figure out where you got it from. Then I remembered:-Miranda was up to his bullshit again. This time it was gum shield spitting.

But when he was in Germany, it was headbutts and low blows.

When points came off for that, people questioned it...even though Randy Neumann was doing the deducting.

But in the Pavlik fight, nobody questioned the deductions.

Go figga.