HERE AND NOW....RIGHT HERE AND NOW...ABRAHAM BEATS BOTH PAVLIK AND TAYLOR.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Y'all musta 4 got....Abraham fought Miranda with a broken jaw for 8 rounds and still whipped his ass. He popped Edisons cherry that night, read him is rights, so to speak. You can't just come along now and say that this Pavlik kid has done it all and that he is the man etc. Of course, you Americans will dress it up for your own benefit to have the big deciding fight between the hopeless Germaine Failure and Kelly "Holmes" Pavlik but the simple unpalatable truth is that Abraham has done it all before them........

[dymipepel]

I thought Abraham quit (like European fighters love to do) in his fight against Miranda, no?

[IHATEJONES]

What are you suggesting, that Abraham ruined Miranda? He won on point deductions, he didn't win more rounds, and he got his jaw destroyed. Miranda ruined him. Pavlik wipes the floor with Abraham.

[ElTerriblee]

What are you suggesting, that Abraham ruined Miranda? He won on point deductions, he didn't win more rounds, and he got his jaw destroyed. Miranda ruined him. Pavlik wipes the floor with Abraham.

We´ll see about that, hopefully.

How do you know he ruined Abraham, who´ll fight next week for the first time.

How often was Miranda warned for low-blows yesterday? http://www.sportforen.de/images/smilies/licht.gif

Other fighters actually have something known as defense and counterpunching skills.

[Orthodox Crusader]

I thought Abraham quit (like European fighters love to do) in his fight against Miranda, no?


No.

Abraham W 12 Miranda.

www.boxrec.com mutherfucker.:bears:

[Orthodox Crusader]

What are you suggesting, that Abraham ruined Miranda? He won on point deductions, he didn't win more rounds, and he got his jaw destroyed. Miranda ruined him. Pavlik wipes the floor with Abraham.


FALSE.

Official Scores:

114-109 ABRAHAM

115-109 ABRAHAM {LARRY HAZARDS CARD}

116-109 ABRAHAM

NOW...for those of you who can't add/subtract.

114-5= 109 = DRAW

115-5= 110 = WIN for AA

116-5= 111 = WIN FOR AA

So..even without the points, Arthur had him by a Maj Dec

[KaukipRrr]

No.

Abraham W 12 Miranda.

www.boxrec.com mutherfucker.:bears:

:bears: Nice to see a bit of ethnic diversity on your shortlist for once,...just out of interest, have you ever ridden a carpet before?...:crafty:

[Orthodox Crusader]

:bears: Nice to see a bit of ethnic diversity on your shortlist for once,...just out of interest, have you ever ridden a carpet before?...:crafty:


No, the carpet is pulled out from under me, I never have the chance to ride it.

I march with the Swarthy Abraham.....an Orthodox Phalanx swings West to face the Hussite Pavlik.

[dymipepel]

No.

Abraham W 12 Miranda.

www.boxrec.com (http://www.boxrec.com) mutherfucker.:bears:


I will, of course, check out this boxrec link you supplied when I have some time. But I clearly remember watching Miranda-Abraham fight on TV, and Abraham was asked whether he wanted to continue to fight. And Abraham clearly said "No", he wanted the fight to be stopped. At that time I switched the channel on my TV, because when a fighter quits in the ring, he loses by TKO (you should be well acquanted with that boxing rule, being a fan of Vitaly). And you're saying to me now that Abraham somehow won that fight, despite losing by TKO?? :dunno:

[IHATEJONES]

If you take away the point deductions, Miranda and Abraham fought on mostly even terms. That fight obviously took more out of Abraham than Miranda. And Pavlik just destroyed Miranda. So based on those premises, I don't see how anybody can come to the conclusion that Abraham beats Pavlik.

[Trplsec]

I will, of course, check out this boxrec link you supplied when I have some time. But I clearly remember watching Miranda-Abraham fight on TV, and Abraham was asked whether he wanted to continue to fight. And Abraham clearly said "No", he wanted the fight to be stopped. At that time I switched the channel on my TV, because when a fighter quits in the ring, he loses by TKO (you should be well acquanted with that boxing rule, being a fan of Vitaly). And you're saying to me now that Abraham somehow won that fight, despite losing by TKO?? :dunno:


You must be thinking of a different fight. Abraham endured hell to outpoint Miranda although I thought Miranda won if not for the point deductions. I thought he out-landed AA and landed some monster bombs.

Abraham showed balls of steel and an amazing will.. I would love to see Abraham-Pavlik.. It would be a great matchup..

[Orthodox Crusader]

I will, of course, check out this boxrec link you supplied when I have some time. But I clearly remember watching Miranda-Abraham fight on TV, and Abraham was asked whether he wanted to continue to fight. And Abraham clearly said "No", he wanted the fight to be stopped. At that time I switched the channel on my TV, because when a fighter quits in the ring, he loses by TKO (you should be well acquanted with that boxing rule, being a fan of Vitaly). And you're saying to me now that Abraham somehow won that fight, despite losing by TKO?? :dunno:


I am no Maths swiz, but, mathematically, the equation Abraham w12 Miranda suggests that somebody called ABRAHAM won a 12 round fight with somebody called Miranda.

Outside of that, you may have a point.

:notallthere:

[dymipepel]

You must be thinking of a different fight. ..

No, I'm quite sure that during the fight Abraham was asked whether he wanted to continue. He said "No", he wanted the fight to be stopped. At that point, I assumed that TKO loss is in order and switched the channel on my TV. (and, as always, I was quite disgusted to see another Euro-fighter quit)
I just don't see any way a fighter who quit could have been declared a winner. Not even Germans would go THAT far........or would they??

[Orthodox Crusader]

You must be thinking of a different fight. Abraham endured hell to outpoint Miranda although I thought Miranda won if not for the point deductions. I thought he out-landed AA and landed some monster bombs.

Abraham showed balls of steel and an amazing will.. I would love to see Abraham-Pavlik.. It would be a great matchup..

Unfortunately, as pertinent as your points are, it seems that Miranda, a guy who has now lost twice to upper-tier comp, is getting more attention than the guys that have beaten him.

As far as I can see, if you want your career to last forever, you can go to Germany, lose, and tell everybody you won. That way even when you lose again, you can serenade people with tales of how you won. In Germany. In a fight you actually lost.

Abraham and Pavlik are the men of the moment.

Taylor...is there. Barely.

Miranda....needs some major wins to relaunch his career.

[Orthodox Crusader]

No, I'm quite sure that during the fight Abraham was asked whether he wanted to continue. He said "No", he wanted the fight to be stopped. At that point, I assumed that TKO loss is in order and switched the channel on my TV. (and, as always, I was quite disgusted to see another Euro-fighter quit)
I just don't see any way a fighter who quit could have been declared a winner. Not even Germans would go THAT far........or would they??


If a fighter is standing against the ropes, and is getting beat on, and he screams at the top of his voice "I WANT THIS FIGHT TO BE STOPPED" and then he KO's his man, did he win by KO or lose by quitting??

This "quit job" by AA had to be the most spin-doctored event of all time.

He wanted to retire within the rules. When he realised the rules did not permit his retiring and winning by DQ, he wanted to fight on.

Which he did. For 7 hard rounds, during which time he showed no sign of quitting. Surely 21 minutes of combat afforded his qutting tendency an opportunity to resurface? Obviusly he is not a qutter.

Try not to be such a trolling scumbag.

When the error of his understanding was alluded to, AA fought on.

Case closed.

BTW...Miranda is toast.

[dymipepel]

He wanted to retire within the rules. When he realised the rules did not permit his retiring and winning by DQ, he wanted to fight on.


Did Abraham say he did not want to continue fighting? Yes or no?

[Orthodox Crusader]

Did Abraham say he did not want to continue fighting? Yes or no?

No.

[dymipepel]

No.

Well, then obviously we watched different fights... :dunno:

[Orthodox Crusader]

Well, then obviously we watched different fights... :dunno:

Or listened to different conversations.

How good is your German?

[dymipepel]

Or listened to different conversations.

How good is your German?

Good enough to understand when a German fighter (be it Quitaly or otherwise) quits :dunno:
I mean, Vitaly quit against Byrd, right? Did I understand that correctly or was Vitaly declared W12 winner as well against the hard-punching Byrd?

[Orthodox Crusader]

Good enough to understand when a German fighter (be it Quitaly or otherwise) quits :dunno:
I mean, Vitaly quit against Byrd, right? Did I understand that correctly or was Vitaly declared W12 winner as well against the hard-punching Byrd?


Glad you brought it up.

Vitali quit....no decision win for Vitali.

Abraham didn't....decision win for Abraham.

It should be clear now.

[dymipepel]

Glad you brought it up.

Vitali quit....no decision win for Vitali.

Abraham didn't....decision win for Abraham.

It should be clear now.

But how can that be? I followed the same pattern when I watched these two fights....As soon as the white guy indicated his desire to quit, I switched the channel (because, frankly, I am quite disgusted by quitting white guys)...and now you're saying that in one scenario a guy was declared a winner and in another one he wasn't? :dunno:

[Orthodox Crusader]

But how can that be? I followed the same pattern when I watched these two fights....As soon as the white guy indicated his desire to quit, I switched the channel (because, frankly, I am quite disgusted by quitting white guys)...and now you're saying that in one scenario a guy was declared a winner and in another one he wasn't? :dunno:


No....one guy quit. And lost.

The other guy didn't...and won!!:cheer: :cheer:

BTW...every post from here on in from you gets reported. Fuck off and troll elsewhere.

[dymipepel]

No....one guy quit. And lost.

The other guy didn't...and won!!:cheer: :cheer:

BTW...every post from here on in from you gets reported. Fuck off and troll elsewhere.

I'm totally confused and bewildered right now :dunno: :dunno:
Sometimes,a Euro quits and he's a winner, sometimes he quits and he's a loser :dunno: :dunno:
Orthodox, since you seem to be an expert on European fighters quitting, would you mind if, from now on, whenever another Euro quits (should be quite often, once about every fight or so), I will ask you on what really happened, so you could clarify it for me?

[mexican wedding shirt]

Orth you're off your nut. Abraham struggled badly in that fight, got his jaw broken, and barely won.

Pavlik just beat the fuck out of Miranda last night, I saw it.

You haven't even seen the fight man.

If Pavlik does fight Abraham, I'll bet on it - are you game? Pavlik would fuck him up too, not a doubt in my mind.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Orth you're off your nut. Abraham struggled badly in that fight, got his jaw broken, and barely won.

Pavlik just beat the fuck out of Miranda last night, I saw it.

You haven't even seen the fight man.

If Pavlik does fight Abraham, I'll bet on it - are you game? Pavlik would fuck him up too, not a doubt in my mind.

Now we're talking....


Abraham got badly hurt and won. He was winning handily up until he got his jaw busted...and he said afterwards that if he hadn't been injured thus he felt he could have KO'd Miranda.

Pavlik has ONE decent win...over a guy Abraham beat.

Miranda was on his ass in his last fight. Maybe Miranda was there for the taking.

For my money...Miranda punched with a puncher and seems to have come off worse.

For sure, look at Abraham..he is no limited puncher.

He is a competent sound boxer. If he was a puncher, he would have been KO'd eventually by Miranda. Instead he boxed to victoire. An impossibility if he was a limited puncher: like Miranda is.

Do not dress Abraham and Miranda up as being the same style of fighter: they are not.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Orth you're off your nut. Abraham struggled badly in that fight, got his jaw broken, and barely won.

Pavlik just beat the fuck out of Miranda last night, I saw it.

You haven't even seen the fight man.

If Pavlik does fight Abraham, I'll bet on it - are you game? Pavlik would fuck him up too, not a doubt in my mind.


Ali struggled badly with Norton, got his jaw bust...and barely lost.

Foreman walked thru Norton.

Finish the sentence......:nono:

Norton fought the wrong fight against foreman. Ali fought the right one.

Anybody who thinks Abraham is going to just go toe2toe with Pavlik...:nono:

Abraham has fought these tall guys before too.

Abrahams resume, to use Reeds parlance, shits on Pavliks.

Yes I will sig bet you if they fight.

[dymipepel]

Well, Orthodox did predict that Vitaly will become 3-times world champion by knocking out Maskaev.....so, I see no reason not to belive him now, when he predicts Abraham's victory :clap:

[mexican wedding shirt]

Of course they're not, but the fact remains Miranda managed to bust abraham's jaw and have an even fight with him. I give credit to abraham for having the guts to fight on, but in the same vein you have to credit Miranda for breaking his jaw in the first place.

He is a puncher, and his punching power broke abraham's jaw, there is no "what if his jaw didn't break" his jaw DID break :) He fought a pretty big puncher, and got his jaw broken, punching is miranda's only strength so you can't take that away from him.

I am not an abraham hater, I guess quite simply I don't see what the fuss is about. I don't think he's anything special. I think he'd get the shit beaten out of him by Pavlik and Calzaghe, and would have an even fight with Taylor, as Taylor does with everyone.

I don't bet wrecklessly on boxing, only when I am pretty damn sure. I would bet money on Pavlik over Abraham.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Of course they're not, but the fact remains Miranda managed to bust abraham's jaw and have an even fight with him. I give credit to abraham for having the guts to fight on, but in the same vein you have to credit Miranda for breaking his jaw in the first place.

He is a puncher, and his punching power broke abraham's jaw, there is no "what if his jaw didn't break" his jaw DID break :) He fought a pretty big puncher, and got his jaw broken, punching is miranda's only strength so you can't take that away from him.

I am not an abraham hater, I guess quite simply I don't see what the fuss is about. I don't think he's anything special. I think he'd get the shit beaten out of him by Pavlik and Calzaghe, and would have an even fight with Taylor, as Taylor does with everyone.

I don't bet wrecklessly on boxing, only when I am pretty damn sure. I would bet money on Pavlik over Abraham.


The "fuss" over Abraham is a response to the "fuss" over Pavlik who has managed to beat a guy that Abraham beat.....9 months ago.

Broken jaws are a rare phenomenon..you can hit a guy 50 times in the mouth and never break his jaw. You can kill a guy and never leave a mark on him.

Yes, we always knew Miranda was a puncher. He broke Arthurs jaw...yawn. Arthur still won. Will Pavlik break Arthurs jaw? What if he doesn't. Try and remember that Arthur has beaten all styles....Pavlik has this ONE WIN. And he has been FORVER getting there.

Question#: Could Pavlik fight 10 rounds and win against Miranda, with a broken jaw? No.

Why: His style. His style wouldn't permit it.

Fuck it...I root for whitey all the time. As soon as I don't, I'm being unreasonable.:notallthere:

Interestingly.....nobody has questioned Abraham beating Taylor:dunno:

[mexican wedding shirt]

Who has abraham beaten? Where are all these different styles? He has never had a spectacular win, he has never looked great.

I think Pavlik is the better fighter overall. He is tough, he is big, he punches like a beast, and he has enough skills too. He would batter smurf boy.

Pavlik beat the same guy that abraham beat, the only difference is it was not a close fight where he got busted up and it went the distance.

The amount of damage that abes inflicted on abraham was minimal, there is no fucking argument at all for abes "ruining" miranda.

The same guy that abraham struggled to beat, pavlik just walked down and DESTROYED. He didn't even care about getting hit.

I just don't see how abraham beats him. He doesn't hit hard enough to really deter pavlik or KO him, and he is not slick enough, fast enough, or enough of a master boxer to beat pavlik.

Your boy Slappy Joe in all likelyhood would beat Pavlik, certainly right now, before Joe gets any worse and before Kelly gets any bigger and better, but stop overrating the smurf.

[mexican wedding shirt]

I still remember his fight against eastman, I was not remotely impressed. That was a very close fight and eastman is SHIT and much slower than pavlik. Eastman was shot too.

And he couldn't even stop Shannan Taylor? I mean come on, have you seen welterweight mosley against Taylor? He beat the fuck out of him. "He didn't knock me daaaaan!"

And again with Jantuah, abraham has never impressed me.

I am as sure as sure can be, the fight might not even happen, but if it does pavlik walks abraham down and beats the shit out of him and stops him. Name your bet in £££ and I'll take it.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Eastman
Ikeke
Jantuah
Taylor
Miranda

I never said he looked spectacular...though he did bomb Ikeke out of there quite nicely.

Who has Pavlik fought?

Miranda.

Thats it.

Don't confuse a spectacular win with a win.

You're doing the George Foreman thing.

Has anybody seen Pavlik in a live fight beyond the 7th round?

We know Arthur can go there. Can Kelly?

I never said Miranda was ruined by Abraham. I said Miranda got decked in his last fight and, a la Tysons felling in sparring pre-Douglas, that might tell us something right there.

I'm not hyping the Smurf.

I'm just not believing the KP hype either.

[Free Ike]

I have told you guys for years Arthur Abraham is the worst title holder in boxing. For years. Edison Miranda with his overrated Power and total lack of skill nearly killed him. Pavlik took 100 flush shots and he is chinny and walked through him like he was nothing.

[mexican wedding shirt]

I have told you guys for years Arthur Abraham is the worst title holder in boxing. For years. Edison Miranda with his overrated Power and total lack of skill nearly killed him. Pavlik took 100 flush shots and he is chinny and walked through him like he was nothing.

:bears:

I have been saying the same thing for ages, well not the he is the absolute worst title holder in boxing, but that he sucks. He certainly does. He is not a good title holder, in fact I would probably pick Taylor to beat him.

[Orthodox Crusader]

I still remember his fight against eastman, I was not remotely impressed. That was a very close fight and eastman is SHIT and much slower than pavlik. Eastman was shot too.

And he couldn't even stop Shannan Taylor? I mean come on, have you seen welterweight mosley against Taylor? He beat the fuck out of him. "He didn't knock me daaaaan!"

And again with Jantuah, abraham has never impressed me.

I am as sure as sure can be, the fight might not even happen, but if it does pavlik walks abraham down and beats the shit out of him and stops him. Name your bet in £££ and I'll take it.

Abraham always does that. He fights DOWN to the level of opposition. Part of the reason he got his jaw broke versus Miranda was because he took the first 3 rounds easy and then got sloppy. Thats his weak point, for sure.

Nobody is going to walk Abraham down and beat the shit out of him.

I'll go £100 Sterling on it with you.

[Orthodox Crusader]

I have told you guys for years Arthur Abraham is the worst title holder in boxing. For years. Edison Miranda with his overrated Power and total lack of skill nearly killed him. Pavlik took 100 flush shots and he is chinny and walked through him like he was nothing.

When Abraham beat Eastman, Eastman is shot, Abraham barely won etc.

Then Miranda did Eastman, and Miranda was "devestating power, reflexes etc"

Then Abraham beats Miranda, and its "ohh..barely won, quit..busted" etc

Then Pavlik beat Miranda, and its "devestating puncher, next big thing..great fighter...Abraham is shit"

Go figure.

:dunno:

[Free Ike]

When Abraham beat Eastman, Eastman is shot, Abraham barely won etc.

Then Miranda did Eastman, and Miranda was "devestating power, reflexes etc"

Then Abraham beats Miranda, and its "ohh..barely won, quit..busted" etc

Then Pavlik beat Miranda, and its "devestating puncher, next big thing..great fighter...Abraham is shit"

Go figure.

:dunno:
My consistency on this issue has been easily followed. I have said and I still maintain that Abraham is the worst title holder in boxing and in the top of one of the worst title holders in boxing history. He gets too little shit because few Americans have seen him. I am a fight junky and I downloaded his fights and he is outright terrible.

[Bob N Weave]

When Abraham beat Eastman, Eastman is shot, Abraham barely won etc.

Then Miranda did Eastman, and Miranda was "devestating power, reflexes etc"

Then Abraham beats Miranda, and its "ohh..barely won, quit..busted" etc

Then Pavlik beat Miranda, and its "devestating puncher, next big thing..great fighter...Abraham is shit"

Go figure.

:dunno:

Dude, read the writing on the wall!! Miranda gave Abraham the fight of his life and got beat the shit out of him in the process. Yet Pavlik fucked Miranda in the ass then spit in his face. Get a clue!!!

[ElTerriblee]

Dude, read the writing on the wall!! Miranda gave Abraham the fight of his life and got beat the shit out of him in the process. Yet Pavlik fucked Miranda in the ass then spit in his face. Get a clue!!!

I did, it read: Styles make fights retard. :dunno: :dunno:

[Bob N Weave]

I did, it read: Styles make fights retard. :dunno: :dunno:

You seriously think that the Pavlik/Abraham fight would be any different than Pavlik/Miranda??

[ElTerriblee]

You seriously think that the Pavlik/Abraham fight would be any different than Pavlik/Miranda??

Are you fucking kidding me? :dunno: :dunno:

[Bob N Weave]

Im talking about the outcome

[Orthodox Crusader]

My consistency on this issue has been easily followed. I have said and I still maintain that Abraham is the worst title holder in boxing and in the top of one of the worst title holders in boxing history. He gets too little shit because few Americans have seen him. I am a fight junky and I downloaded his fights and he is outright terrible.


If he is outright terrible, then what does that make Miranda. How THE FUCK do you LOSE and almost FOUL OUT against a guy that

1. Is outright TERRIBLE

2. Has an outright terribly broken jaw

3. Has 7 outright terrible rounds left to fight

???:dunno: :dunno: :dunno: ???

Miranda must be 2{Outright Terrible}{Outright Terrible} X5

And if Miranda is THAT...what does that make Pavlik???

There's only so many strands of bullshit you can weave with the same piece of thread!

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

Abraham will HAVE TO come to the states to prove that he can beat Taylor and Pavlik.....HERE AND NOW>....

[steve_dave]

AA is terrible. Pavlik would knock him out for sure. Garbage.

[Matchup_Analyzer]

AA won't come to the states to defend his belt IMO
He can get a timeout in Germany and run for the rest but if he gets his jaw broken here he's getting stopped

[Orthodox Crusader]

Are you fucking kidding me? :dunno: :dunno:

They have to be.

If Miranda is this killer machine that people had him made out to be, then Arthur Abraham must have D that makes Winkys look decidely porous to survive 7 rounds with Meldrick-Taylor-esque injuries.

EITHERWAYS you can't have Pavlik beat Miranda and build KP up and NOT do the same for AA.

AA's win over Miranda has its own merits.

[Orthodox Crusader]

AA is terrible. Pavlik would knock him out for sure. Garbage.

To be expected I suppose from the likes of you........:rolleyes:

[steve_dave]

To be expected I suppose from the likes of you........:rolleyes:

I've seen all of his recent fights. I think he sucks... but Taylor does too so that could be an even money fight. Pavlik handled Miranda like any good middleweight should. AA couldn't do that.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Abraham will HAVE TO come to the states to prove that he can beat Taylor and Pavlik.....HERE AND NOW>....

Yeah, cos we all know Taylor and Pavlova ain't "fighting in Germany":laughing: :laughing: :flip:

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

Yeah, cos we all know Taylor and Pavlova ain't "fighting in Germany":laughing: :laughing: :flip:

Why would they have to go to Germany? :dunno:

[Orthodox Crusader]

I've seen all of his recent fights. I think he sucks... but Taylor does too so that could be an even money fight. Pavlik handled Miranda like any good middleweight should. AA couldn't do that.


Well Foreman handled Norton like any good Heavy should have. Ali couldn't do that.:notallthere: :dunno:

Pavlik:

Has shown what he can do against a PUNCHER that fights PAVLIKS fight.

Who's fight was AA fighting for the last 7 rounds of his fight with EM?

[Orthodox Crusader]

Why would they have to go to Germany? :dunno:

To get the IBF belt.:popcorn:

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

To get the IBF belt.:popcorn:


:lol::lol: right...

Pavlik most be thinking..go to Germany rip this guy head off..and still have the judges rob me of a decision...or FIGHT JERMAIN TAYLOR for the MIDDLEWEIGHT championship of the world for ALOT, ALOT more MONEY $$$$$$$$$..decisions...decisions...:crafty:


The best Abraham can do is hide out in Germany and wait as see how thing works out against the legit guys at MIddleweight....maybe if he waits long enough he becomes the legit guy at 160 by default....wait for the top guys to X each other out....

[mexican wedding shirt]

Ortho - if they fight outside of germany - I'll wager £1000 :)

[valdosta]

They have to be.

If Miranda is this killer machine that people had him made out to be, then Arthur Abraham must have D that makes Winkys look decidely porous to survive 7 rounds with Meldrick-Taylor-esque injuries.

EITHERWAYS you can't have Pavlik beat Miranda and build KP up and NOT do the same for AA.

AA's win over Miranda has its own merits.

Sure you can. Pavlik fucking destroyed Miranda, without a doubt. I like Abraham but I can't find more than 6 rounds in that fight to give him. He fought with tons of courage and won but sorry, that was nowhere near as impressive as what Pavlik did. :dunno:

[Orthodox Crusader]

:lol::lol: right...

Pavlik most be thinking..go to Germany rip this guy head off..and still have the judges rob me of a decision...or FIGHT JERMAIN TAYLOR for the MIDDLEWEIGHT championship of the world for ALOT, ALOT more MONEY $$$$$$$$$..decisions...decisions...:crafty:


The best Abraham can do is hide out in Germany and wait as see how thing works out against the legit guys at MIddleweight....maybe if he waits long enough he becomes the legit guy at 160 by default....wait for the top guys to X each other out....

Bullshit...he fought Miranda long before Pavlik OR Taylor did....and he fought Eastman and Ikeke before Pavlik did. And before Miranda did...he didn't have to take the Miranda fight, did he???

So the notion of Arthur "hiding" from anyone is silly. He fought the bad ass demon from Columbia whilst Kelly Pavlova was doing the "Zerthuche" routine.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Orthodox Crusader]

Sure you can. Pavlik fucking destroyed Miranda, without a doubt. I like Abraham but I can't find more than 6 rounds in that fight to give him. He fought with tons of courage and won but sorry, that was nowhere near as impressive as what Pavlik did. :dunno:


????????????????????????

Who cares about fucking impressive?

Foreman looked hella good vs Frazier....Ali didn't.

Abraham ain't going to be standing there toe 2 toe.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: waste of time even trying with you people....

[IMDAZED]

Bullshit...he fought Miranda long before Pavlik OR Taylor did....and he fought Eastman and Ikeke before Pavlik did. And before Miranda did...he didn't have to take the Miranda fight, did he???

So the notion of Arthur "hiding" from anyone is silly. He fought the bad ass demon from Columbia whilst Kelly Pavlova was doing the "Zerthuche" routine.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Stop hating on Zertuche. His performance was good as Miranda's.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Stop hating on Zertuche. His performance was good as Miranda's.

That would be significant IF ZERTUCHE WASN'T SUCH A FUCKING NOBODY

[IMDAZED]

That would be significant IF ZERTUCHE WASN'T SUCH A FUCKING NOBODY

Orthodox, shame on you. According to Roy Jones, Nobody is Somebody.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Orthodox, shame on you. According to Roy Jones, Nobody is Somebody.


And that somebody was ROY himself.

A nobody, in other words.

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

Bullshit...he fought Miranda long before Pavlik OR Taylor did....and he fought Eastman and Ikeke before Pavlik did. And before Miranda did...he didn't have to take the Miranda fight, did he???

So the notion of Arthur "hiding" from anyone is silly. He fought the bad ass demon from Columbia whilst Kelly Pavlova was doing the "Zerthuche" routine.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yeah but Pavlik completely annihilated his demon(Miranda) while Abraham just held on for a bogus decision after 2 or 3,4 point deductions to Miranda....and was put on the shelf for a few months with a wired jaw.

[valdosta]

????????????????????????

Who cares about fucking impressive?

Foreman looked hella good vs Frazier....Ali didn't.

Abraham ain't going to be standing there toe 2 toe.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: waste of time even trying with you people....

Yeah because Abraham is such a master boxer? While he beat guys like Kofi Jantuah he found himself exchanging and on the ropes a lot. yeah, the great Kofi jantuah was roughing him up at times of course being impressive matters. Pavlik fucking wrecked a guy that Abraham struggled like hell with. Pavlik would murder Abraham.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Yeah but Pavlik completely annihilated his demon(Miranda) while Abraham just held on for a bogus decision after 2 or 3,4 point deductions to Miranda....and was put on the shelf for a few months with a wired jaw.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

WHO POPPED MIRANDAS CHERRY???

WHO TOOK IS "O"??

I guess Wlads KO of Mercer means a lot more than Lennys stumbling disputed decision win???

I guess Lyakhovich can beat the shit out of Wlad, seeing as Wlad lost to Brewster but Segei didn't???

Please.......

[Orthodox Crusader]

Yeah because Abraham is such a master boxer? While he beat guys like Kofi Jantuah he found himself exchanging and on the ropes a lot. yeah, the great Kofi jantuah was roughing him up at times of course being impressive matters. Pavlik fucking wrecked a guy that Abraham struggled like hell with. Pavlik would murder Abraham.


We'll see.:rolleyes:

My guess is that Pavlik finds out what the rough end of an 12 round fight feels like...and then his big ass frame regrets fighting as low as 160....lets see how much Power Kelly has beyond the 7th. We already know he's slow as treacle and that he's there to be hit.

Question: How many body shots did Miranda land on Pavlik last night?

[valdosta]

Pavlik by MURDER:clap:

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

WHO POPPED MIRANDAS CHERRY???

WHO TOOK IS "O"??

I guess Wlads KO of Mercer means a lot more than Lennys stumbling disputed decision win???

I guess Lyakhovich can beat the shit out of Wlad, seeing as Wlad lost to Brewster but Segei didn't???

Please.......

With the extreme help of the REF....and the judges...the only thing popped in that fight was Abrahams jaw..

Wlad was always better than Lyakovich, there was never any doubt. Who is better between Pavlik and Abraham is still up in the air...and Abraham fighting protected in Germany by the ref and judges will not change that....Pavlik will move on to fight for the LEGIT WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP..while Abraham defends his IBF title...:notallthere:

Abraham will just stay in germany and wait out the division.....hope for everyone to cancel each other out...and he will be left standing....

[Orthodox Crusader]

Pavlik by MURDER:clap:


Damn.......IS PAVLIK THE LATEST GREAT WHITE HYPE or what???

[Tam Tam]

OC is such a cock, he makes you want to hate Abraham. I wish the faggot was in love with a guy who can't fight, instead.

Abraham would beat Pavlik, IMO.

[Orthodox Crusader]

With the extreme help of the REF....and the judges...the only thing popped in that fight was Abrahams jaw..

Wlad was always better than Lyakovich, there was never any doubt. Who is better between Pavlik and Abraham is still up in the air...and Abraham fighting protected in Germany by the ref and judges will not change that....Pavlik will move on to fight for the LEGIT WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP..while Abraham defends his IBF title...:notallthere:

Abraham will just stay in germany and wait out the division.....hope for everyone to cancel each other out...and he will be left standing....

He doesn't have a history of that. So please, STFU already with that mantra. He was the first guy to stand up to Miranda and he PASSED that test. Maybe if he had the benefit of 3 more tapes worth of Miranda fights he could have done better. All in all you are being unfairly biased.

[valdosta]

Damn.......IS PAVLIK THE LATEST GREAT WHITE HYPE or what???

I don't know about white hypes but I know Pavlik would fuck Abraham up. :popcorn:

[Orthodox Crusader]

OC is such a cock, he makes you want to hate Abraham. I wish the faggot was in love with a guy who can't fight, instead.

Abraham would beat Pavlik, IMO.


OC roots for the white man, he's a racist.

OC roots against the white man, he's a cock.

General Custer has a better chance of a fair hearing than me.

That said, :bears: on your insight.

[Orthodox Crusader]

I don't know about white hypes but I know Pavlik would fuck Abraham up. :popcorn:

You can't know Pavlik and NOT KNOW about White Hypes.

Pavlik is a skinny tall skinhead.

[mexican wedding shirt]

OC is such a cock, he makes you want to hate Abraham. I wish the faggot was in love with a guy who can't fight, instead.

Abraham would beat Pavlik, IMO.


Tam what on earth do you see in him? He doesn't do anything that well. He is not that fast, he is not a master boxer, and he can't even punch that hard, and his workrate is not phenominal either.

What's good about him? The only thing I can see about him is he is a half decent all rounder, and he's tough and clearly has some heart.

Still he'd get his face bashed in against pavlik, there's just no 2 ways about it. He is not outboxing pavlik, and he couldn't hurt him either. Didn't you say the way pavlik simply walked miranda down? Even when he was getting whacked flush in round 5 I was thinking "shit, what's gonna happen now?". But nothing. He was in no trouble at all.

[valdosta]

You can't know Pavlik and NOT KNOW about White Hypes.

Pavlik is a skinny tall skinhead.

He didn't look like a hype to me as he was beating the living hell out of the guy who broke Abrahams jaw and gave him hell.

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

He doesn't have a history of that. So please, STFU already with that mantra. He was the first guy to stand up to Miranda and he PASSED that test. Maybe if he had the benefit of 3 more tapes worth of Miranda fights he could have done better. All in all you are being unfairly biased.

the only good fighter he beat impresively and without much help was IKEKE and Eastman...Mosley destroyed Taylor...Ouma spanked Jantuah...and he got alot of help from the ref in the Miranda fight...but he showed HEART....

[valdosta]

the only good fighter he beat impresively and without much help was IKEKE and Eastman...Mosley destroyed Taylor...Ouma spanked Jantuah...and he got alot of help from the ref in the Miranda fight...but he showed HEART....

Abraham was hurt and struggled like hell with Eastman. He did demolish Ikeke though.

[Tam Tam]

Tam what on earth do you see in him? He doesn't do anything that well. He is not that fast, he is not a master boxer, and he can't even punch that hard, and his workrate is not phenominal either.
Are you describing Arthur Abraham or Bernard Hopkins? :dunno:


What's good about him? The only thing I can see about him is he is a half decent all rounder, and he's tough and clearly has some heart.

Still he'd get his face bashed in against pavlik, there's just no 2 ways about it. He is not outboxing pavlik, and he couldn't hurt him either. Didn't you say the way pavlik simply walked miranda down? Even when he was getting whacked flush in round 5 I was thinking "shit, what's gonna happen now?". But nothing. He was in no trouble at all.
Thats all your opinion, mate and you're entitled to it. I have my doubts about how Pavlik will hold up over a long fight, with a quality fighter.

One fight will never convince me that a fighter is 'for real'.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Abraham was hurt and struggled like hell with Eastman. He did demolish Ikeke though.


Now we're reaching new depths of revisionism.

[Tam Tam]

Now we're reaching new depths of revisionism.
He's partially right. Abraham had all sorts of trouble with Eastman. But Howard took a beating...I also don't think Abraham was in any real trouble in terms of being 'hurt'.

[ElTerriblee]

Well at least we are all in agreement about Taylor. :tease:

A broken jaw can happen to anybody, which makes the comparisons even less relevant. If it was so easy, Morales should have never fought Pacquiao, since Pacquiao destroyed Barrera, who Morales could only edge by close decision three times. :stir: :stir:

[Orthodox Crusader]

He's partially right. Abraham had all sorts of trouble with Eastman. But Howard took a beating...I also don't think Abraham was in any real trouble in terms of being 'hurt'.

Eastman is crafty...and Abraham was really untested at that point. Howard was hanging on in there. For me, Eastman vs AA was like PEa vs Oscar. Howards last combined reserves of skill and balls were used up in that fight. Arthur had some difficulty coming to terms with him, but that was it. Once he had him, he poured it on.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Are you describing Arthur Abraham or Bernard Hopkins? :dunno:


Thats all your opinion, mate and you're entitled to it. I have my doubts about how Pavlik will hold up over a long fight, with a quality fighter.

One fight will never convince me that a fighter is 'for real'.

YES. THATS IT IN A NUTSHELL.

[ElTerriblee]

Tam, gimme the link to the Boxing without Jermain forum again, I lost it. :old:

[Tam Tam]

Tam, gimme the link to the Boxing without Jermain forum again, I lost it. :old:
Suuuure you did. :nono:

***********************************

[ElTerriblee]

Suuuure you did. :nono:

***********************************

Yeah, sure I did, first time my computer went down I lost all bookmarks, second time I lost all cookies. :flip: :flip:

[Tam Tam]

Yeah, sure I did, first time my computer went down I lost all bookmarks, second time I lost all cookies. :flip: :flip:
:lol: Cupey has the site blocked form even being mentioned on here. Thats respect :blobbox:

I'll PM it to you.

[Orthodox Crusader]

:lol: Cupey has the site blocked form even being mentioned on here. Thats respect :blobbox:

I'll PM it to you.


Whats this??

[Orthodox Crusader]

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4XQOnkyGXqw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4XQOnkyGXqw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


Hilarious.

[Tam Tam]

Whats this??
Boxing Without Bullshit.

[Matchup_Analyzer]

<OBJECT height=350 width=425>

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4XQOnkyGXqw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></OBJECT></P>

Hilarious.

This clip reminds me of why I don't like Miranda :lol:

I didn't figure Pavlik would decimate him in a close quarters fight

[Orthodox Crusader]

Boxing Without Bullshit.

????

[Orthodox Crusader]

Speaking of Bullshit....listen to this for a magnificent piece of horseshit:

Give 'the Ghost' this, he has been more than willing and able to do anything to get a shot at the belt. Back in January, he would brutally stop Zertuche in what was thought to be a WBC eliminator.

"That's what it was supposed to be," said his manager Cameron Dunkin, chuckling, "but now of course we're fighting a second eliminator."

But beyond any recognition or mandate from any sanctioning organization, this was an opportunity to cool down the hot 'Pantera' and place Pavlik as America's top middleweight contender.

"When I talked to Kelly, he said, 'Look, I'll fight my way to the top and whoever I gotta fight, Zertuche, Miranda, I'll fight whoever. Whatever it takes, I'm willing to do.' Which I thought was pretty neat that he was willing to do it."

Actually, both Pavlik and Miranda should be commended for facing each other instead of just sitting on their lofty rankings.


WHat is this guy talking about...before facing Miranda, Pavlik had faced:

JL Zertuche
Lenord Pierre
Bronko McKart :doh: {Not even a fucking middlweight}
Zunniga
ROSS THOMPSON BY 8 ROUND DECISION {Ko'd at 154 by Vargas 6 years ago:eek: }

...and then to top it all off, having fought Pierre himself, Kelly signs off with:

"Personally, I don't see what the whole hype is. He stopped Willie Gibbs in the first round and ever since he did that on HBO, he's been boosted up into this unstoppable beast. Willie Gibbs is a guy who was getting beat by Lenord Pierre until he knocked him out in the 12th round.

Thats HARDLY a stunning resume: and whats more its hardly PROOF that Pavlik was prepared to do what was needed to get a shot at Taylor. Miranda was fighting and losing to Abraham 9 months ago.:rolleyes: ...and that was AFTER Abraham had something to lose.:rolleyes:

Abraham for his part has fought, outside of the common Miranda, Ikeke {Freddie Roach fighter} Jantuah and Eastman. He fought Shannon Taylor in a gimme first defence.

Yet here's Kim talking Pavlova up like Pavlova was some sort of a big risk taker. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:




here's the full link http://www.maxboxing.com/Kim/Kim051607.asp

[Tam Tam]

????
It's a private forum, mate. You're not allowed to discuss it here though.

[Orthodox Crusader]

It's a private forum, mate. You're not allowed to discuss it here though.


Then PM a nigga.:eek:

[mexican wedding shirt]

Well Tam, especially for a middleweight, after coming forward non stop, throwing a lot of punches and walking through everything a big puncher was offering - I am confident in his ability for a long, tough fight.

He looked surprisingly fresh when he was beating the fuck out of miranda in the 7th round, after a fast paced, action packed 6 rounds. I think he proved his toughness, chin, and to some extent his stamina.

It's a serious question though tam - what do you think is good about abraham?

I thought the eastman fight could have gone either way, and without the deductions - the miranda fight too.

[valdosta]

He's partially right. Abraham had all sorts of trouble with Eastman. But Howard took a beating...I also don't think Abraham was in any real trouble in terms of being 'hurt'.

He was visibly hurt. Eastman was just to big of a joke to do anything about it. I was all the way correct.

[valdosta]

Eastman is crafty...and Abraham was really untested at that point. Howard was hanging on in there. For me, Eastman vs AA was like PEa vs Oscar. Howards last combined reserves of skill and balls were used up in that fight. Arthur had some difficulty coming to terms with him, but that was it. Once he had him, he poured it on.

Poured what on? Abraham was breathing in the last 4 rounds like he was about to hyperventilate.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Well Tam, especially for a middleweight, after coming forward non stop, throwing a lot of punches and walking through everything a big puncher was offering - I am confident in his ability for a long, tough fight.

He looked surprisingly fresh when he was beating the fuck out of miranda in the 7th round, after a fast paced, action packed 6 rounds. I think he proved his toughness, chin, and to some extent his stamina.

It's a serious question though tam - what do you think is good about abraham?

I thought the eastman fight could have gone either way, and without the deductions - the miranda fight too.



you think too much


the maths suggests that the fight was Abrahams without the deductions anyways.


114-109
115-109
116-109

LESS 5 from all scores = 109-109, 110-109, 111-109

PS...the fouling was taking a lot out of AA, so that has to be considered too. Then again, you are big into thinking, so I'm sure you won't omit it. Thanks.

[valdosta]

I don't see what you are trying to debate here. Yeah without the deuctions Abraham deserved to lose in most peoples opinion. I See a draw at best. However, I think 4 of 5 Miranda's points taken were pretty legit so I didn't mind what happened. Let's not pretend like it wasn't a competitive fight though because that is BS.

[*Z*]

Abraham BARELY beat Miranda and many people feel it was a home town decision. Kelly Pavik beats the living shit out of Miranda and stops him in 7.

How this leads anyone to believe Abraham would beat Pavlik is beyond me. If all you're going by is their common opponent, Pavlik clearly has the edge here.

Pavlik KO 5 Abraham.

[His_Royness]

Abraham BARELY beat Miranda and many people feel it was a home town decision. Kelly Pavik beats the living shit out of Miranda and stops him in 7.

How this leads anyone to believe Abraham would beat Pavlik is beyond me. If all you're going by is their common opponent, Pavlik clearly has the edge here.

Pavlik KO 5 Abraham.


Trinidad beats the living shit out of Vargas Wright didn't even get a decision - how this lead to Winky school Tito is beyond me...

Foreman beats the living shit out of Frazier... Ali ... :popcorn:


i could continue over 100 pages with that shit...

[steve_dave]

Trinidad beats the living shit out of Vargas Wright didn't even get a decision - how this lead to Winky school Tito is beyond me...

Foreman beats the living shit out of Frazier... Ali ... :popcorn:


i could continue over 100 pages with that shit...

True, but Pavlik would still beat AA up something fierce.

[His_Royness]

if Tito hadn't been humiliated before by Bernard then i'm sure people would have picked him over Wright by demolition...

I dunno what the deal was when Ali fought Foreman but i think most people thought the same.

[steve_dave]

if Tito hadn't been humiliated before by Bernard then i'm sure people would have picked him over Wright by demolition...

I dunno what the deal was when Ali fought Foreman but i think most people thought the same.

Sure.

But I just think Pavlik is better. AA has never been impresive to me.

[Free Ike]

Sure.

But I just think Pavlik is better. AA has never been impresive to me.
Please note that I have for years stated that AA is the worst title holder in boxing. Pavlik would murder him as would JT. I would pick Pavlik in Germania.

[steve_dave]

Please note that I have for years stated that AA is the worst title holder in boxing. Pavlik would murder him as would JT. I would pick Pavlik in Germania.

Please note that I have been right there with you since day 1 of the Abraham bashing.

[ElTerriblee]

Abraham BARELY beat Miranda and many people feel it was a home town decision. Kelly Pavik beats the living shit out of Miranda and stops him in 7.

How this leads anyone to believe Abraham would beat Pavlik is beyond me. If all you're going by is their common opponent, Pavlik clearly has the edge here.

Pavlik KO 5 Abraham.

You never struck me as simple-minded. How long do you follow boxing? ADRIAN STONE stopped Thompson, Pavlik went the distance with him. Shall we conclude Stone would destroy Pavlik.

[Free Ike]

Please note that I have been right there with you since day 1 of the Abraham bashing.
So noted.

[His_Royness]

Sure.

But I just think Pavlik is better. AA has never been impresive to me.


Sure - maybe he would have been impressing if he didn't got his jaw broken in the Miranda fight. I don't like people to credit this as a big accomplishment for Miranda. People have been hit to the jaw harder and more often than that and nothing happened but some make it seem like Miranda planned this or sumthing. - That's just a freak accident and nothing more...


That being said i'm not very optimistic about Abraham's chances in that fight, as well but i would bet my house on him at least not getting toasted by Pavlik in 6 rounds like Miranda got.

He would give a much better account of himself i'm sure.

[His_Royness]

Please note that I have for years stated that AA is the worst title holder in boxing. Pavlik would murder him as would JT. I would pick Pavlik in Germania.


maybe of the champions u know... which are maybe half of the ones existing...

[Free Ike]

maybe of the champions u know... which are maybe half of the ones existing...
I am not a typical American. I download and follow the European and American scene. I could care less about Asian midgets so in that sense you are correct. AA is the worst title holder among weights that matter in the American/European scene. The worst BAR NONE.

[His_Royness]

I am not a typical American. I download and follow the European and American scene. I could care less about Asian midgets so in that sense you are correct. AA is the worst title holder among weights that matter in the American/European scene. The worst BAR NONE.


i would say he is not worse than Shannon Briggs, Krysztof Wlodarczyk, Valery Brudov, Enzo Maccarinelli, Clinton Woods, Alejandro Berrio, Felix Sturm, Kermit Cintron, Ricardo Torres, Mzonke Fana, Robert Guerrero and maybe Zsolt Erdei if u go by accomplishments alone... :lol:


and that's only til featherweight...

[Free Ike]

i would say he is not worse than Shannon Briggs, Krysztof Wlodarczyk, Valery Brudov, Enzo Maccarinelli, Clinton Woods, Alejandro Berrio, Felix Sturm, Kermit Cintron, Ricardo Torres, Mzonke Fana, Robert Guerrero and maybe Zsolt Erdei if u go by accomplishments alone... :lol:


and that's only til featherweight...
I would disagree furiously. I think Sturm would masturbate on AA. I really felt he lost to Jantuah and Eastman and Miranda. He is putrid.

[Alabama_Man]

This whole thread is about bums.

Pavlik, Taylor, and Abraham are all members of the bum club.

Pavlik is a bum with a right hand.

Taylor is a wild swinging bum.

Abraham is a euro bum.

I never saw so much conversation and debate about bums. :rolleyes:

[ElTerriblee]

I would disagree furiously. I think Sturm would masturbate on AA.

Let me guess your vast knowledge of European boxing led you to this conclusion. :lol: :lol:

[His_Royness]

I would disagree furiously. I think Sturm would masturbate on AA. I really felt he lost to Jantuah and Eastman and Miranda. He is putrid.


Sturm showed his vulnerability against Castillejo... it has to be seen if he could hang with Arthur in terms of skills u r right though. Jantuah i don't know Eastman no way u should really rescore the fights and be a little more objective since u know a part of u just wanted to bust our german asses with ur hatred.

Since u didn't argue with the rest of my list, do i have a small point that he's not the worst? :crafty:

[His_Royness]

This whole thread is about bums.

Pavlik, Taylor, and Abraham are all members of the bum club.

Pavlik is a bum with a right hand.

Taylor is a wild swinging bum.

Abraham is a euro bum.

I never saw so much conversation and debate about bums. :rolleyes:



Corey Spinks is a bum too who got knocked out by a bum who will get knocked out by a bum soon that almost got knocked out by that Torres bum.

And u even start threads about those people... shame on u Alabama... :lol:

[Free Ike]

Sturm showed his vulnerability against Castillejo... it has to be seen if he could hang with Arthur in terms of skills u r right though. Jantuah i don't know Eastman no way u should really rescore the fights and be a little more objective since u know a part of u just wanted to bust our german asses with ur hatred.

Since u didn't argue with the rest of my list, do i have a small point that he's not the worst? :crafty:
No, in fact, the best he could be is tied worst with 15 others. Again, I don't hate German/European fighters like most Americans. I am pretty objective. Ottke and Abraham are undefeated ONLY because they are protected. Abraham would lose on a level palying field pretty frequently. He went life and death with Eastman and Mierda two terrible fighters. JT may be a bum but he would castrate Abraham.

[Alabama_Man]

No, in fact, the best he could be is tied worst with 15 others. Again, I don't hate German/European fighters like most Americans. I am pretty objective. Ottke and Abraham are undefeated ONLY because they are protected. Abraham would lose on a level palying field pretty frequently. He went life and death with Eastman and Mierda two terrible fighters. JT may be a bum but he would castrate Abraham.

Ottke is truly a protected bum. He flat out had a losing bout turned into a winning bout based on a clash of heads.

Abraham is also another protected bum. He all but quit in the fight with Miranda but the officials wouldn't let him. In my mind Abraham has 1-2 losses on his record.

Taylor is a dancing queer, but he's not quite on Abraham's or Ottke's bum level.

[ElTerriblee]

No, in fact, the best he could be is tied worst with 15 others. Again, I don't hate German/European fighters like most Americans. I am pretty objective. Ottke and Abraham are undefeated ONLY because they are protected. Abraham would lose on a level palying field pretty frequently. He went life and death with Eastman and Mierda two terrible fighters. JT may be a bum but he would castrate Abraham.

..and as usual ten fights and five years later, when a fighter finally loses, you´ll be around and remind us, that you told us so. :lol: :lol:

[Hex-One]

This whole thread is about bums.

Pavlik, Taylor, and Abraham are all members of the bum club.

Pavlik is a bum with a right hand.

Taylor is a wild swinging bum.

Abraham is a euro bum.

I never saw so much conversation and debate about bums. :rolleyes::lol:

[Free Ike]

..and as usual ten fights and five years later, when a fighter finally loses, you´ll be around and remind us, that you told us so. :lol: :lol:
This is not giving me the proper credit. For years I maintained Joe Calzaghe and Winky Wright were tops in their respective divisions. I was mocked, degraded and finally proven right. I have never picked against Abraham yet because he is fighting a whose WHO THE FUCK IS THAT? Once he steps up, he will wish he was back in Turkey defending himself from deportation than the fighter in the riing with a real man.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Who has abraham beaten? Where are all these different styles? He has never had a spectacular win, he has never looked great.
I think Pavlik is the better fighter overall. He is tough, he is big, he punches like a beast, and he has enough skills too. He would batter smurf boy.

Pavlik beat the same guy that abraham beat, the only difference is it was not a close fight where he got busted up and it went the distance.
The amount of damage that abes inflicted on Abraham was minimal, there is no fucking argument at all for abes "ruining" Miranda.

The same guy that abraham struggled to beat, Pavlik just walked down and DESTROYED. He didn't even care about getting hit.

Not only that, but Pavlik must have some kevlar in his jaw cos I lost count how many times Miranda caught him flush.
Pavlik's a monster.
:bears:

BTW, OrthodoxC...SKY are showing Abraham v Demers this Friday night.

[ElTerriblee]

Who has abraham beaten? Where are all these different styles? He has never had a spectacular win, he has never looked great.


He looked pretty damn good against Kingsley Ikeke, and I´d argue Gardner, Jantuah, Eastman, Miranda, Ikeke, Hamdan, Velazco, and this week Demers offer more variety and quality than Miranda, Zertuche and Zuniga.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

I never even saw the Abraham - Miranda fight or even knew it was them in OC's avatar! :dunno: :lol:

However, Abraham doesn't say 'Nein' or 'No' when asked by the referee if he wants to fight on at the start of this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WlFAEPrBDw

He shrugs, grunts but doesn't suggest he wants to stop.

[*Z*]

Trinidad beats the living shit out of Vargas Wright didn't even get a decision - how this lead to Winky school Tito is beyond me...

Foreman beats the living shit out of Frazier... Ali ... :popcorn:


i could continue over 100 pages with that shit...

I said "If all we are going by is common opponents then Pavlik has the edge"

My prediction is a seperate statement entirely.

[*Z*]

So when is Abraham planning on giving Miranda his deserved rematch?

[jarhead]

He looked pretty damn good against Kingsley Ikeke, and I´d argue Gardner, Jantuah, Eastman, Miranda, Ikeke, Hamdan, Velazco, and this week Demers offer more variety and quality than Miranda, Zertuche and Zuniga.

ahh, but Abraham is a world Champion:nono: to compare the two is obsurd. Abraham is still fighting the Demers of the world, yet he holds the belt. Why isn't he fighting Sturm, they are practically fucking neighbors. But instead he fights another fringe contender. Hmmm. Abraham wouldn't be a love child from the calzaghe family would he?:dunno:

[ElTerriblee]

So when is Abraham planning on giving Miranda his deserved rematch?

When the IBF orders it? The question is whether Miranda can still make weight properly.

[*Z*]

When the IBF orders it? The question is whether Miranda can still make weight properly.

Of course. Who am I to assume AA is man enough to fight Miranda without being ordered to.

[jarhead]

When the IBF orders it? The question is whether Miranda can still make weight properly.


Hmmmm, why hasn't the IBF ordered it?.......:nono: because they are just as corrupt as any other abc belt if not the worst?

[ElTerriblee]

ahh, but Abraham is a world Champion:nono: to compare the two is obsurd. Abraham is still fighting the Demers of the world, yet he holds the belt. Why isn't he fighting Sturm, they are practically fucking neighbors. But instead he fights another fringe contender. Hmmm. Abraham wouldn't be a love child from the calzaghe family would he?:dunno:

....because Sturm denies Abraham´s existence? Politics? Money?

What´s wrong about Demers after a nine months injury lay-off? He´s undefeated and a decent boxer. A better pure boxer than anyone Pavlik has ever fought. :dunno:

[ElTerriblee]

Of course. Who am I to assume AA is man enough to fight Miranda without being ordered to.

Never suggested he won´t, it´s just the likely scenario, since Miranda is the mandatory and it is due by September. Don´t know why Abraham wouldn´t fight Miranda again, if he´s 100%. He controlled Miranda easily until he got caught with his mouth open.

It´s ridiculous Abraham is the one getting criticized for his competition or balls, after he became a world champion within two years as a professional and compiled a 22-0 record with solid wins over Miranda, Jantuah, Eastman, Gardner, Ikeke, Velazco and Hamdan.

[jarhead]

....because Sturm denies Abraham´s existence? Politics? Money?

What´s wrong about Demers after a nine months injury lay-off? He´s undefeated and a decent boxer. A better pure boxer than anyone Pavlik has ever fought. :dunno:

I never compared the two. Pavlik isn't a world title holder. AA is. :nono:

[*Z*]

Never suggested he won´t, it´s just the likely scenario, since Miranda is the mandatory and it is due by September. Don´t know why Abraham wouldn´t fight Miranda again, if he´s 100%. He controlled Miranda easily until he got caught with his mouth open.

It´s ridiculous Abraham is the one getting criticized for his competition or balls, after he became a world champion within two years as a professional and compiled a 22-0 record with solid wins over Miranda, Jantuah, Eastman, Gardner, Ikeke, Velazco and Hamdan.

I don't hate Abraham at all. I think he's one tough dude and I actually like him as a fighter.

This is one of those situations where a fan of a certain fighter, in this case Abraham comes out of the woodwork after a great win by a fellow MW, Pavlik, and makes me have hate for that fighter by running his mouth and attempting to discredit his very impressive win.

[Tam Tam]

When the IBF orders it? The question is whether Miranda can still make weight properly.
Did the link work? :dunno:

[Orthodox Crusader]

If you take away the point deductions, Miranda and Abraham fought on mostly even terms. That fight obviously took more out of Abraham than Miranda. And Pavlik just destroyed Miranda. So based on those premises, I don't see how anybody can come to the conclusion that Abraham beats Pavlik.


If you take away the points deficit, Ali and Norton fought on mostly even terms. That fight obviously tool more out of Ali than Norton. And Foreman just destroyed Norton. So based on those premises, I don't see how anybody can come to the conclusion that Ali beats Foreman.:rolleyes:

DID YOU KNOW:

Tito Trinidad was a 3-1 OUTSIDER to beat JOPPY:eek:

Tito Trinidad was a 3-1 Favourite to beat HOPKINS

Kostya Tszyu was a 2-1 UNDERDOG vs ZAB FREAKIN JUDAH.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Never suggested he won´t, it´s just the likely scenario, since Miranda is the mandatory and it is due by September. Don´t know why Abraham wouldn´t fight Miranda again, if he´s 100%. He controlled Miranda easily until he got caught with his mouth open.

It´s ridiculous Abraham is the one getting criticized for his competition or balls, after he became a world champion within two years as a professional and compiled a 22-0 record with solid wins over Miranda, Jantuah, Eastman, Gardner, Ikeke, Velazco and Hamdan.


Shit....Pavlik fights Bronco McKart. Beats him....and somehow they make the Zertuche fight an eliminator for the WBC title- despite the fact that Zertuche was coming off a LOSS to a guy that Pavlik already beat. Zuniga.

NOW....if it was an Eliminator for Pavlik, we can only assume that it was an eliminator for Zertuche too?

AND HOW THE FUCK do you get a crack at a WBC eliminator by LOSING to Zuniga???:dunno:

Shit, even in the light of Spinksgate, Winkygate and Oumagate, Zertuche vs Taylor still sounds WRONG. Even Taylor wouldn't fight Zertuche. Shit, I'd say even Zertuches POPS wouldn't bother to cane him.

Of course, Zertuche wasn't supposed to beat Pavlik to begin with.:nono:

Where the phock is Wally Matthews when you really need him.:dunno: :nono:

[Orthodox Crusader]

Not only that, but Pavlik must have some kevlar in his jaw cos I lost count how many times Miranda caught him flush.
Pavlik's a monster.
:bears:

BTW, OrthodoxC...SKY are showing Abraham v Demers this Friday night.


Too fucking bad I don't have Sky.

Anywhere I can get it for free.

Thanks for the heads up.

PS...If Abraham took flush shots on a broken jaw....:nono:

[Alabama_Man]

Are you guys still talking about this Abraham bum?

Didn't you guys see the fight with Miranda? He was begging his corner to quit. :lol:

[ElTerriblee]

Did the link work? :dunno:

Yes, I have nothing to say. :old:

[Orthodox Crusader]

I never even saw the Abraham - Miranda fight or even knew it was them in OC's avatar! :dunno: :lol:

However, Abraham doesn't say 'Nein' or 'No' when asked by the referee if he wants to fight on at the start of this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WlFAEPrBDw

He shrugs, grunts but doesn't suggest he wants to stop.


How could he have said anything??

HIS JAW WAS BROKEN!!!

Yet you hear the dumb shits say "I heard Abraham say he wanted to quit":laughing: :laughing:

Yeah, and I saw Jack Kennedy live at the Palladium in 1964.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Are you guys still talking about this Abraham bum?

Didn't you guys see the fight with Miranda? He was begging his corner to quit. :lol:


HOW???

With pen and paper?

email??

Written fucking invite??

Subpoena??

:dunno: :dunno:

[Orthodox Crusader]

if Tito hadn't been humiliated before by Bernard then i'm sure people would have picked him over Wright by demolition...

I dunno what the deal was when Ali fought Foreman but i think most people thought the same.
:bears: :bears:

Damn right.

For the record, most people had Tito by devestating KO over old ass Snaggletooth too.:nono: :eek:

People never learn.:nono:

[Orthodox Crusader]

Sure.

But I just think Pavlik is better. AA has never been impresive to me.


On the basis of what? A "better" performance over a Common opponent?

Thats not even a fools logic.

Its no logic.

In short, its illogical to the Nth degree.

Its made all the more illogical BY THE TOTAL ABSENCE of any other worthwhile name on Pavliks rep.

[Orthodox Crusader]

I would disagree furiously. I think Sturm would masturbate on AA. I really felt he lost to Jantuah and Eastman and Miranda. He is putrid.


Sturm couldn't even beat old ass and former 154lb also-ran Castillejo at the first time of asking.

At the second time of asking, he managed a slim points win.

And if you really want to think that AA lost to Eastman, Miranada and Jantuah, then fine, you really are lost.

[Orthodox Crusader]

This whole thread is about bums.

Pavlik, Taylor, and Abraham are all members of the bum club.

Pavlik is a bum with a right hand.

Taylor is a wild swinging bum.

Abraham is a euro bum.

I never saw so much conversation and debate about bums. :rolleyes:

Not since the last Manny Pacquaio thread anyways.

[Alabama_Man]

HOW???

With pen and paper?

email??

Written fucking invite??

Subpoena??

:dunno: :dunno:

By moping around in the corner with his fat mouth bleeding and his corner telling him "You better fight!"

Just by the look on his face you could tell he would've been happy if the towel was thrown. :lol:

[Tam Tam]

Yes, I have nothing to say. :old:
How cute. :slap:

[Orthodox Crusader]

True, but Pavlik would still beat AA up something fierce.


Damn. This is what happens when you bring affirmative action to Sasketchwan province. We have Unibomber as our Mod. Sad.:nono:

[Orthodox Crusader]

By moping around in the corner with his fat mouth bleeding and his corner telling him "You better fight!"

Just by the look on his face you could tell he would've been happy if the towel was thrown. :lol:


Ali looked real happy when Foreman molested him in rounds 2,3,4 in Zaire.

Get real man.

[Antwuan Maxx]

you think too much


the maths suggests that the fight was Abrahams without the deductions anyways.


114-109
115-109
116-109

LESS 5 from all scores = 109-109, 110-109, 111-109

PS...the fouling was taking a lot out of AA, so that has to be considered too. Then again, you are big into thinking, so I'm sure you won't omit it. Thanks.

:nono: I haven't ever seen the official scorecards, but I'm willing to bet those rounds that Abraham was clearly losing, were scored 10-8, rather than 9-9 after the point deductions. If that's the case, which I'm sure it is, your math isn't very accurate considering you'd be shorting Miranda a few points.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Interestingly, nobody has bothered to throw out the idea of watching Abraham this Friday and seeing how he does.

My guess is he coasts to a points win, a la Vitali K vs Timo Hoffmann. Just get the rounds in.

Of course...people will say "Oh...he lacked snap...no balance...he's shot".....

:doh: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Orthodox Crusader]

:nono: I haven't ever seen the official scorecards, but I'm willing to bet those rounds that Abraham was clearly losing, were scored 10-8, rather than 9-9 after the point deductions. If that's the case, which I'm sure it is, your math isn't very accurate considering you'd be shorting Miranda a few points.


Do you have a means of allowing me to send you a fight? I have it in Winamp video format.

[jarhead]

Interestingly, nobody has bothered to throw out the idea of watching Abraham this Friday and seeing how he does.

My guess is he coasts to a points win, a la Vitali K vs Timo Hoffmann. Just get the rounds in.

Of course...people will say "Oh...he lacked snap...no balance...he's shot".....

:doh: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Well, if he coasts to a points win, I will say the same thing I say about every champ who does this. He lacks intensity, a killer instinct. He can't put guys away.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Well, if he coasts to a points win, I will say the same thing I say about every champ who does this. He lacks intensity, a killer instinct. He can't put guys away.


He's coming off a layoff and an injury.:dunno:

[mexican wedding shirt]

I would also pick sperm over abe.

[Orthodox Crusader]

I would also pick sperm over abe.


Well, we all saw what happened when Sperm got HIS jaw broken. Marvellous balls he showed over the last, uh, 9 seconds of the fight or so.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VgC4VsVaX_U"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VgC4VsVaX_U" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[Antwuan Maxx]

Do you have a means of allowing me to send you a fight? I have it in Winamp video format.

What do you mean, your copy of the fight has the official round by round scoring? Or did you misread my post and think I haven't seen the fight, rather than the scorecards? I have the fight downloaded already, by the way.


Anyway, as far as a possible Pavlik-Abraham fight goes, I think it will be relatively even early with both men landing their share of punches. I seen a previous poster question whether Pavlik could go 12 full, hard rounds. Which is funny to me, considering Pavlik's workrate regularly picks up as the fight progresses, and knowing that Abraham is a spurt fighter, who clearly has stamina issues. If anyone's conditioning should be at questioning, it should be Abraham's. I can see a gassed Abraham being TKO'd late in the fight in that turtle shell defense with no head movement, leaving himself susceptible to Pavlik's long punches around the ears.

[Erratic]

Ali looked real happy when Foreman molested him in rounds 2,3,4 in Zaire.

Get real man.

Ali countered Foreman effectively off the ropes in every round.

He was far from being dominated despite what the revisionists may try to claim.

[ElTerriblee]

I would also pick sperm over abe.

It´s funny how everybody bases their opinion about Sturm on his win over De La Chubby at middleweight. He struggled with Castillejo, not only in the loss, but the rematch as well, which was very close. He had a very close call with Velazco, although it has to be said he took the fight on short notice. He is stationary far too often for a fighter with a bad chin and no power.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Ali countered Foreman effectively off the ropes in every round.

He was far from being dominated despite what the revisionists may try to claim.

:dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

I was alluding to Alis expression as Foreman pounded his ribs and liver.

WAS IT

{A}http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/KBQB_blog/ali.jpg


OR

{B}http://blog.blackbusinessradio.com/wp-content/cplphotos/16/i/ali-380x380o.jpg

I'm thinking B myself. I doubt he was enjoying himself.

[Orthodox Crusader]

What do you mean, your copy of the fight has the official round by round scoring? Or did you misread my post and think I haven't seen the fight, rather than the scorecards? I have the fight downloaded already, by the way.


Anyway, as far as a possible Pavlik-Abraham fight goes, I think it will be relatively even early with both men landing their share of punches. I seen a previous poster question whether Pavlik could go 12 full, hard rounds. Which is funny to me, considering Pavlik's workrate regularly picks up as the fight progresses, and knowing that Abraham is a spurt fighter, who clearly has stamina issues. If anyone's conditioning should be at questioning, it should be Abraham's. I can see a gassed Abraham being TKO'd late in the fight in that turtle shell defense with no head movement, leaving himself susceptible to Pavlik's long punches around the ears.


How many of Pavliks fights have you seen progress into the 11th/12th round????

Even against shitty opponents???

Boxrec say he's never gone to the 11th round.

The 9th is as far as he has ever gone.

[Antwuan Maxx]

[/i][/b]

How many of Pavliks fights have you seen progress into the 11th/12th round????

Even against shitty opponents???

Boxrec say he's never gone to the 11th round.

The 9th is as far as he has ever gone.

The fact of the matter is, when a fighter throws as many punches in the 7th or 8th round as he was doing in the first quarter of the fight, I'm pretty sure that's indicates he's well conditioned. I mean come on man, if Pavlik and Abraham fight this year...which fighter do you think will gas first? :rolleyes: I think me and you both know the answer to that, whether you're willing to admit it or not..

[Orthodox Crusader]

The fact of the matter is, when a fighter throws as many punches in the 7th or 8th round as he was doing in the first quarter of the fight, I'm pretty sure that's indicates he's well conditioned. I mean come on man, if Pavlik and Abraham fight this year...which fighter do you think will gas first? :rolleyes: I think me and you both know the answer to that, whether you're willing to admit it or not..


All I know is that Abraham kept moving and punching for 8 rounds with a busted jaw. He never gassed once. Pavlik, for that matter, hasn't even gone beyond the 9th with a live opponent, much less with a broken jaw.

[Antwuan Maxx]

All I know is that Abraham kept moving and punching for 8 rounds with a busted jaw. He never gassed once. Pavlik, for that matter, hasn't even gone beyond the 9th with a live opponent, much less with a broken jaw.

Err...he looked pretty damn tired to me against Jantuah, throwing wild, wide punches falling off balance breathing with his mouth open. :rolleyes:

[Orthodox Crusader]

Err...he looked pretty damn tired to me against Jantuah, throwing wild, wide punches falling off balance breathing with his mouth open. :rolleyes:


Scrappy end to the fight, yes....but gassed out? Not really.

[Alabama_Man]

Is this guy your favorite fighter or something Irish?

[Orthodox Crusader]

Is this guy your favorite fighter or something Irish?


No.

Close, but not favourite.

[Rubio MHS]

No.

Close, but not favourite.You fucking him? That's the only thing that could account for your massive nuthugging of him.

[Orthodox Crusader]

You fucking him? That's the only thing that could account for your massive nuthugging of him.


Au contraire, I desire to avert his being fucked. If you want the same for darling Kelly, keep Pavlova away from Abe.:tease:

[Rubio MHS]

Aaaah, so that's how it is? He's fucking you. You're the girl.

[Orthodox Crusader]

http://www.fightclub-wuppertal.de/galerie/010.jpg


At the very best...Pavlik dresses better.

Thats it though.