The IBF: Broken or Broken beyond repair?

[mikE]

The IBF doesn't even try to act like they care about the sport.

It seems like they have stripped more champions than they have crowned, recently.

Their champions are the apparent weakest in several weight classes...Berrio, Molitor, Guerrero, Fana, N'Dou, Cintron, and a few others might be.

Their rankings system is ridiculous to the point of glaring stupidity. Why? Well, if you feel there should be 10, 12, or 15 people eligible to automatically fight for your title, at least for voluntary defenses(afaik, the main 4 are all at 15), then shouldn't there be 15 people ranked? Of course, but what does the IBF do? They blackmail fighters...making them fight eliminators, instead of just 'earning' a ranking by beating other fighters...to what result?

Well, if you look at their rankings...http://www.fightnews.com/rankings2.htm
as of May 20th...

you will see that the IBF has vacancies at the top of a few of the weight classes. How few? How about every single fucking weight class has at least one vacancy (17). Eleven weight classes have at leat 2 vacancies in the rankings. Two weight classes (JB and B) even have 3 vacancies...no champ, no #1, and no #2.

[Rubio MHS]

Still better than the WBO.

[mikE]

Still better than the WBO.

Great argument.

[Rubio MHS]

At least the IBF enforces mandatories. The WBO throws belts at random assholes, hopes someone good will beat them, and let's its fighters take on even more random assholes. Prince Naseem Hamed's still the best champion they ever had.

[mikE]

At least the IBF enforces mandatories. The WBO throws belts at random assholes, hopes someone good will beat them, and let's its fighters take on even more random assholes. Prince Naseem Hamed's still the best champion they ever had.

The IBF 'enforces' mandatories to a fault..hence, strip strip strip the champ. And the WBO's champs look noticeably better than the IBF's right now, especially their champs who might be worse than the IBF's.

[Rubio MHS]

Let's take a look at the respective champions


Heavyweight: Wlad (IBF) is better than Shannon Briggs (WBO)
Cruiserweight: Wlod (IBF) is better than Macaroni (WBO)
Light Heavyweight: Clinton Woods (IBF) and Edrei (WBO) are equally sucky Eurobums
Super Middleweight: Calzaghe (WBO) is better than whoever the IBF has now.
Middleweight: While some might argue for Abraham at this point, Taylor (WBO) is better than Abraham.
Jr. Middleweight: Corey Spinks (IBF) is better than Dzasseiwelkj (WBO)
Welterweight: Margarito (WBO) is better than Cintron (IBF), although they both suck.
Jr. Welterweight: Torres (WBO) is better than N'Dou (IBF).
Lightweight: Diaz (WBO) is better than Diaz (IBF).
Jr. Lightweight: Klassen (IBF) is better than Guzman (WBO), but they are both far from the elite of the division.
Featherweight: Roberto Guerrero (IBF) is better than nobody (WBO)
Jr. Featherweight: Steve Molitor (IBF) is better than De Leon (WBO)
Bantamweight: Jhonny Gonzales (WBO) is better than nobody (IBF)
Jr. Bantamweight: Fernando Montiel (WBO) is better than nobody.
Flyweight: Darchinyan (IBF) is better than Navaez (WBO)
Jr. Flyweight: Solis (IBF) is better than Sazares (WBO)
Strawweight: Rachman (IBF) and Caldaron (WBO) are about even. I felt like giving Rachman the edge, but I was afraid I might be picking him simply because he's IBF.

I have it 8-7-2 in favor of the IBF, but it is fairly close. Point taken, although a lot of the best WBO titlists also held the IBF title, but stayed with the WBO because it doesn't enforce mandatory defenses. It's simply easier to be a WBO titlist, and I don't like that. I mean, you only have one mandatory a year. How hard is that? The IBF does let its champions defend the title, knowing that no matter who wins, he'll be stripped. In Michaelczewski-Hill and Hopkins-Taylor I, to cite the two biggest cases, the defending champions were 11 months late for defending against their mandatories, and it is unfair to make the mandatory wait another 12 months.

[Tam Tam]

Let's take a look at the respective champions


Heavyweight: Wlad (IBF) is better than Shannon Briggs (WBO) RIGHT
Cruiserweight: Wlod (IBF) is better than Macaroni (WBO) Debatable
Light Heavyweight: Clinton Woods (IBF) and Edrei (WBO) are equally sucky Eurobums Woods is better
Super Middleweight: Calzaghe (WBO) is better than whoever the IBF has now. Right
Middleweight: While some might argue for Abraham at this point, Taylor (WBO) is better than Abraham. Right
Jr. Middleweight: Corey Spinks (IBF) is better than Dzasseiwelkj (WBO) Don't agree at all
Welterweight: Margarito (WBO) is better than Cintron (IBF), although they both suck. Don't matter. Margarito is clearly better
Jr. Welterweight: Torres (WBO) is better than N'Dou (IBF). Disagree
Lightweight: Diaz (WBO) is better than Diaz (IBF). True
Jr. Lightweight: Klassen (IBF) is better than Guzman (WBO), but they are both far from the elite of the division. LOL fucking retard. Guzman is no worse than #3-4. Klassen is possibly the worst champion in the sport
Featherweight: Roberto Guerrero (IBF) is better than nobody (WBO)
Jr. Featherweight: Steve Molitor (IBF) is better than De Leon (WBO) Ah, no and ther eis nothing at all to base it on either
Bantamweight: Jhonny Gonzales (WBO) is better than nobody (IBF)
Jr. Bantamweight: Fernando Montiel (WBO) is better than nobody.
Flyweight: Darchinyan (IBF) is better than Navaez (WBO) True
Jr. Flyweight: Solis (IBF) is better than Sazares (WBO) WRONG
Strawweight: Rachman (IBF) and Caldaron (WBO) are about even. I felt like giving Rachman the edge, but I was afraid I might be picking him simply because he's IBF. Calderon clearly is more deserving of a higher ranking and is better


I have it 8-7-2 in favor of the IBF, but it is fairly close. Point taken, although a lot of the best WBO titlists also held the IBF title, but stayed with the WBO because it doesn't enforce mandatory defenses. It's simply easier to be a WBO titlist, and I don't like that. I mean, you only have one mandatory a year. How hard is that? The IBF does let its champions defend the title, knowing that no matter who wins, he'll be stripped. In Michaelczewski-Hill and Hopkins-Taylor I, to cite the two biggest cases, the defending champions were 11 months late for defending against their mandatories, and it is unfair to make the mandatory wait another 12 months.

WBO is clearly better.

[Rubio MHS]

Your sig doesn't work, and N'Dou will lose his next fight .

[Tam Tam]

N'Dou is fighting someone half decent, in his hometown, on his promoters card, in a fight thats almost guaranteed to go 12. Big suprise.

And whats my sig?

[Rubio MHS]

Hmm... It wasn't working a second ago, and you're just picking N'Dou because you like him.

[Der Tiger]

Dzinziruk is a better JMW than spinks. Agreed with FTA about wlodarcyzk, as much as a bum maccarinelli is, I wouldn't be too sure the pole is a class above him.

[valdosta]

Klassen isn't even a titleist anymore. Fana is and no, Guzman is not worse than that guy.

[valdosta]

Dzinziruk is a better JMW than spinks.

I agree

[Alabama_Man]

All of the major sanctioning bodies are broken. The IBF intentionally leaves vacancies for the top spots to collect more sanctioning fees, the WBA has 3 champions at cruiserweight to collect sanctioning fees, and the WBC recently got into a big problem involving their granting of a champion "emeritus" title to Shitali Quitschko.

Sanctioning bodies are stupid and broken, it's been this way for years. Are you guys seriously just realizing this now? :lol:

[jarhead]

What's rediculous is we are argueing who is worse, the IBF or the WBO:laughing:

Its an endless arguement, because they both suck. But then again, so does the WBA and the WBC. These are so called the 4 legit titles in boxing and they are all corrupt. I have never been a guy to like government intervention, but boxing is just about there. We need a real system. One, possibly two organizations with commissioners who make fights rather than greedy promoters. Boxing is stuck in the dark ages, and unless we are willing to think outside the box, we will stay there.

[mikE]

I'm still hoping for someone to step up and defend the IBF policies I've criticized. So far, Alabama Man's rather obvious 'they do it for the sanctioning fees' and Rubio's 'at least the IBF enforces mandatories' are the only attempts.

Well, there are better ways to collect sanctioning fees (the minor titles, eliminators to achieve mandatory status without leaving the spot blank) and enforcing mandatories needs some common sense...i.e. why the fuck would Hatton get stripped after winning back his title and wishing to fight Castillo before facing the winner of an eliminator that hadn't even occurred, yet?

The IBF's system is fucked up. Even if their vacancy bullshit had logical sense, the fact that vacancies exist in all 17 weight classes pretty much proves that it ain't working.

As far as mandatories...I think their enforcement is one of the most important reasons for sanctioning bodies to exist...but the IBF has taken the concept so far that they not only cut off their nose to spite their face, but cut out their eyes and rip off their ears.

[jarhead]

I'm still hoping for someone to step up and defend the IBF policies I've criticized. So far, Alabama Man's rather obvious 'they do it for the sanctioning fees' and Rubio's 'at least the IBF enforces mandatories' are the only attempts.

Well, there are better ways to collect sanctioning fees (the minor titles, eliminators to achieve mandatory status without leaving the spot blank) and enforcing mandatories needs some common sense...i.e. why the fuck would Hatton get stripped after winning back his title and wishing to fight Castillo before facing the winner of an eliminator that hadn't even occurred, yet?

The IBF's system is fucked up. Even if their vacancy bullshit had logical sense, the fact that vacancies exist in all 17 weight classes pretty much proves that it ain't working.

As far as mandatories...I think their enforcement is one of the most important reasons for sanctioning bodies to exist...but the IBF has taken the concept so far that they not only cut off their nose to spite their face, but cut out their eyes and rip off their ears.

Their shitty ranking system along with their crappy mandatory defense policy that is enforced when they want it to be is two of the biggest reasons why we don't have the best fighters facing each other in every weight.:flip: Throw in greedy ass promoters and its a miracle we ever have title unification.:doh:

[Alabama_Man]

So you started this thread to find a defense for why the IBF is fucked up? :dunno:

I thought it was to discuss whether the IBF is broken or "beyond repair?

btw, I don't know where you got that I was "defending" anything in this thread. I pretty much called all the sanctioning bodies shitty.

miKE acts as if the IBF is all that important or something in their policies is different than the "other" sanctioning bodies. It's the same shit with a different recipe and they all want more money. That's the problem when you have 3-4 profit seeking entities in one sport seeking legitimacy. Boxing will never be as big as Basketball, Baseball, or Football because of this lack of a single entity to set forth the rules and guidelines. You want to fix boxing? Get a billion dollars, buy out all the sanctioning bodies, and make a boxing version of the NBA, NFL, etc.

As it is this thread really makes no sense because it's attempting to critisize boxing through the guise of a shitty sanctioning body. It's totally irrelevant.

Maybe I should start a few threads myself.

"The WBA: The merits of a Super Champion!"

"The WBC: To steal or not steal a title"

"The WBO: The 2 year mandatory song and dance!"

"The WBF: Computers make us legitimate!"

I think all of those topics would be just as relevant as this one.

[mikE]

So you started this thread to find a defense for why the IBF is fucked up? :dunno:

I thought it was to discuss whether the IBF is broken or "beyond repair?

btw, I don't know where you got that I was "defending" anything in this thread. I pretty much called all the sanctioning bodies shitty.

miKE acts as if the IBF is all that important or something in their policies is different than the "other" sanctioning bodies. It's the same shit with a different recipe and they all want more money. That's the problem when you have 3-4 profit seeking entities in one sport seeking legitimacy. Boxing will never be as big as Basketball, Baseball, or Football because of this lack of a single entity to set forth the rules and guidelines. You want to fix boxing? Get a billion dollars, buy out all the sanctioning bodies, and make a boxing version of the NBA, NFL, etc.

As it is this thread really makes no sense because it's attempting to critisize boxing through the guise of a shitty sanctioning body. It's totally irrelevant.

Maybe I should start a few threads myself.

"The WBA: The merits of a Super Champion!"

"The WBC: To steal or not steal a title"

"The WBO: The 2 year mandatory song and dance!"

"The WBF: Computers make us legitimate!"

I think all of those topics would be just as relevant as this one.

Much better.

I am not attempting to criticize boxing through any guise, however. I stick up for boxing as much as anyone. This thread is about an attack on the one sanctioning body (of the four that matter) that is based in the usa, has some oversight, and has ended up with some really ridiculous policies.

Your potential threads are not as harmful and/or ridiculous, imo, as the IBF stuff.

I would have gone with IBO and not WBF for the computers, btw. If the WBF still exists, it is far, far down the ladder, even compared to the IBO.

The IBF's policies are different than the other sanctioning bodies which is why i've singled them out. And, I'm pretty sure they are still a non-profit company which actually might have something to do with their stupid policies if you think about it.

The main 4 organizations really don't 'compete' with each other in the same way that corporations compete. As long as a fighter is indifferent to the title, and I believe they almost always are, it comes down to other factors. The IBF's bullshit directly corrupts these 'other factors.'

[Alabama_Man]

I don't know why you think the IBF is non-profit, maybe because it was initially formed as a non-profit org? That probably had to do with no one knowing who the fuck Bob Lee and his shitty org was at the time, but maybe that's just me.

All of the major sanctioning bodies are profit seeking entities. The IBF basically said fuck you Carlos Baldomir, we don't care if you beat our champion Zab Judah, you didn't pay us so you're not champion.

I know you probably put a lot of thought into this thread, and maybe wished that it might lead to something constructive about saving boxing, but this thread is shit.

Now excuse me, it's gym/lunch time. :cool:

[jarhead]

If every other year, boxings 4 big abc's made their champions fight, it would create a "superbowl" like atmosphere for boxing, especially at HW. The PPV numbers would be huge and the PPV's would be stacked with great fights. But these abc dumbasses are two narrow minded to even think of this. They could spend the next year having the top ten duke it out for a chance at the superbowl, it would be great:bears: :cheer:

[mikE]

I don't know why you think the IBF is non-profit, maybe because it was initially formed as a non-profit org? That probably had to do with no one knowing who the fuck Bob Lee and his shitty org was at the time, but maybe that's just me.

All of the major sanctioning bodies are profit seeking entities. The IBF basically said fuck you Carlos Baldomir, we don't care if you beat our champion Zab Judah, you didn't pay us so you're not champion.

I know you probably put a lot of thought into this thread, and maybe wished that it might lead to something constructive about saving boxing, but this thread is shit.

Now excuse me, it's gym/lunch time. :cool:

Perhaps I believe the IBF is a nonprofit because it is a nonprofit. Good luck proving it's not.

[mikE]

If every other year, boxings 4 big abc's made their champions fight, it would create a "superbowl" like atmosphere for boxing, especially at HW. The PPV numbers would be huge and the PPV's would be stacked with great fights. But these abc dumbasses are two narrow minded to even think of this. They could spend the next year having the top ten duke it out for a chance at the superbowl, it would be great:bears: :cheer:

There are more unifications now than there were in the past. The sanctioning bodies aren't set up to encourage unification bouts. While I said they don't compete in the typical sense, they are separate entities. The best we can hope for is that they permit and perhaps accomodate their champions who wish to fight other champtions. The IBF is the worst about this, imo....another criticism that could have been in the OP.

[Alabama_Man]

Perhaps I believe the IBF is a nonprofit because it is a nonprofit. Good luck proving it's not.

I saw a unicorn made out of choclate. Good luck proving it's not.

[mikE]

I saw a unicorn made out of choclate. Good luck proving it's not.

You aren't the brightest bulb. This isn't about proving a negative, it's about backing up your claim that the IBF is not a nonprofit. Good luck.

[Alabama_Man]

So you can't prove it's not made out of choclate? That's what I thought.

[mikE]

So you can't prove it's not made out of choclate? That's what I thought.

As a matter of fact, I can prove that:


I saw a unicorn made out of choclate.

[Alabama_Man]

As a matter of fact, I can prove that:

Circular logic? That's what I thought. I knew this thread was shit.

[Rubio MHS]

This is the shittiest topic I've seen in five months.

[mikE]

Circular logic? That's what I thought. I knew this thread was shit.

Too bad you don't know what circular logic is. Or would that be 'circlar' to you, like your 'choclate' unicorn?

[Rubio MHS]

Too bad you don't know what circular logic is. Or would that be 'circlar' to you, like your 'choclate' unicorn?Shit, his stupid post about the chocolate unicorn simply shows that you state something, and instead of offering proof, you ask others to disprove it. That's fucking dumb. Any high-school freshman could've figured it out.

[Alabama_Man]

This topic deserves to be stickied. It should be an example of how a shitty thread topic looks.

[Rubio MHS]

This topic deserves to be stickied. It should be an example of how a shitty thread topic looks.In that case, 9/10 of the topics in this shithole should be stickied.

[mikE]

Shit, his stupid post about the chocolate unicorn simply shows that you state something, and instead of offering proof, you ask others to disprove it. That's fucking dumb. Any high-school freshman could've figured it out.

I claimed the IBF was a nonprofit believing it was. He claimed it wasn't acting like he KNEW it wasn't.

He's wrong. And if he tries to prove it, he'll find that out.

The unicorn comment is about trying to prove a negative, not circular logic. I wasn't asking him to prove a negative so the unicorn comment was a non sequitur as any high school sophomore would know.

Circular logic, however, works just fine when you quote Alabama_Man as proof that something isn't true because of his uncanny knack of being wrong.

[Alabama_Man]

In that case, 9/10 of the topics in this shithole should be stickied.

That's true, I thought the Corey Spinks was robbed thread had potential but then Xplosive and Double L posted in it, now it's considered shit.

[Rubio MHS]

I claimed the IBF was a nonprofit believing it was. He claimed it wasn't acting like he KNEW it wasn't.

He's wrong. And if he tries to prove it, he'll find that out.

The unicorn comment is about trying to prove a negative, not circular logic. I wasn't asking him to prove a negative so the unicorn comment was a non sequitur as any high school sophomore would know.He's simply asking you for proof of the IBF. If you'd simply shown the IBF's status as a non-profit organization, you would have shut him up. Do so.

[Alabama_Man]

The IBF is non-profit, just not the boxing org.

http://www.ibf-booksellers.org/

[mikE]

He's simply asking you for proof of the IBF. If you'd simply shown the IBF's status as a non-profit organization, you would have shut him up. Do so.

As if this will shut him up:

http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userfiles/File/IBF%20Bylaws.pdf

[Alabama_Man]

That says it was the successor to a non-profit org like I originally stated.

Also being an NPO doesn't necessarily mean that an organization cannot seek or make profit. They are still allowed to generate profit under certain guidelines. Many non-profits are exposed each year as being very profitable. You should do research once in a while.

As it is, this topic gets shittier by the minute.

[Rubio MHS]

The IBF is non-profit, just not the boxing org.

http://www.ibf-booksellers.org/ That's stupid. Every museum in the nation sells books, but almost all of them are non-profit. PBS, National Geographic and lots of other organizations make money by selling tours, etc...

You're full of shit.

[Alabama_Man]

That's stupid. Every museum in the nation sells books, but almost all of them are non-profit. PBS, National Geographic and lots of other organizations make money by selling tours, etc...

You're full of shit.

The IBF Book Sellers Org is truly non-profit. They don't trade at a profit or make any money except through donations and gov't subsidies.

The IBF Boxing Org makes a healthy profit everytime they slap a plastic belt on someone's waist.

But you're right this topic is full of shit.

[mikE]

That says it was the successor to a non-profit org like I originally stated.

Also being an NPO doesn't necessarily mean that an organization cannot seek or make profit. They are still allowed to generate profit under certain guidelines. Many non-profits are exposed each year as being very profitable. You should do research once in a while.

As it is, this topic gets shittier by the minute.
It also states that the current organization is as a non-profit.

Quit being a douchebag and admit you're wrong or come up with some 'profit.'

Let mE rephrase that last sentence...quit being a douchebag on this point and admit you're wrong or come up with some 'profit.'

[Rubio MHS]

The IBF Book Sellers Org is truly non-profit. They don't trade at a profit or make any money except through donations and gov't subsidies.

The IBF Boxing Org makes a healthy profit everytime they slap a plastic belt on someone's waist.

But you're right this topic is full of shit.Actually, this topic's getting a little better. You're full of shit. ALL non-profit organizations make money through vehicles other than donations and government subsidies.

Any high schooler would know this.

[Alabama_Man]

Generalizing an NPO as something that cannot make profit is ridiculous. There is a lot of profit in many NPOs. The IBF is one of them.

[Alabama_Man]

Actually, this topic's getting a little better. You're full of shit. ALL non-profit organizations make money through vehicles other than donations and government subsidies.

Any high schooler would know this.

Really? I just posted this question on another messageboard and this 15 year old kid didn't know anything about NPOs.

Exposed.

[mikE]

Generalizing an NPO as something that cannot make profit is ridiculous. There is a lot of profit in many NPOs. The IBF is one of them.
I said "And, I'm pretty sure they are still a non-profit company which actually might have something to do with their stupid policies if you think about it."

You replied "I don't know why you think the IBF is non-profit, maybe because it was initially formed as a non-profit org?"

<!-- / message --><!-- controls -->I replied, " Perhaps I believe the IBF is a nonprofit because it is a nonprofit. Good luck proving it's not. "

You're a worthless poster. Combined with the fact that you are a prolific poster, fightbeat.com suffers.

I don't expect to reply to any more of your stupidity in this thread, but I suppose it's possible.

[Alabama_Man]

I said
"I don't know why you think the IBF is non-profit, maybe because it was initially formed as a non-profit org?"

because I knew you didn't know shit about NPOs. Now you've only confirmed it.

Prove to me that the IBF doesn't have any internalized profit.

[Rubio MHS]

Generalizing an NPO as something that cannot make profit is ridiculous. There is a lot of profit in many NPOs. The IBF is one of them.The IBF pays wages. The IBF makes no profit. One could argue that the men working for the IBF make profit, but the IBF - as a whole - doesn't. LOTS of people abuse NPOs, but the NPOs themselves don't make money. In short:

Bob Lee takes all sorts of bribes, and makes all sorts of illegal profits.
The IBF doesn't make a profit as an organization.
Bob Lee (along with others) makes a profit.
The IBF doesn't.You are an idiot for continuing this "argument."

[Rubio MHS]

I said

because I knew you didn't know shit about NPOs. Now you've only confirmed it.

Prove to me that the IBF doesn't have any internalized profit.The IBF was audited the year Bob Lee was prosecuted, shithead.

[Alabama_Man]

The IBF stopped being under federal observation 3 years ago. There are many accusations towards Marian Muhammad about foul practices. To say that their decision making process for mandatories and title fights isn't profit motivated is purposely blinding yourself.

But I don't expect anything "less" from the shitheads on this board.

You guys can continue discussing how the IBF is broken and going in circles in the dark. I already know the answer as to why the IBF is shitty.

Like I said, prove to me that the IBF doesn't make any internalized profit.

[Rubio MHS]

The IBF stopped being under federal observation 3 years ago. There are many accusations towards Marian Muhammad about foul practices. To say that their decision making process for mandatories and title fights isn't profit motivated is purposely blinding yourself.

But I don't expect anything "less" from the shitheads on this board.

You guys can continue discussing how the IBF is broken and going in circles in the dark. I already know the answer as to why the IBF is shitty.

Like I said, prove to me that the IBF doesn't make any internalized profit.Prove that the IBF hasn't been audited in the past three years.

[Alabama_Man]

Prove that the IBF hasn't been audited in the past three years.

Exposed.

[Tam Tam]

Thread. Ruined.

[Rubio MHS]

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x2/kingkrs/funny%20pics/pumpkin-butt.jpg