Foreman claims he was drugged vs. Ali

[Damien]

Not sure if a topic had been started about this yet or not...

http://msn.foxsports.com/boxing/story/6836424?MSNHPHMA&GT1=10035

[TKO]

I think hes on drugs now..

[Ugotabe Kidding]

I doubt it. However he probably as drugged during HBO telecasts

[lb 4 lb]

That isn't what he used to claim on the HBO telecasts whenever it was brought up. He always said, something like "Ali did the ropeadope, and I was the dope". The way he always said it and having a big smile he always seemed to me like he was just happy to have been part of that historical moment. It's a shame to hear him saying this now.

[Rubio MHS]

He's been saying this since 1974.

[steve_dave]

The result should be changed to a NC, IMO.

[dsimon3387]

He's been saying this since 1974.

dsimon writes:

It isn't outside the rhealm of possability. Also, what if George did think he had been drugged? what would be the best way to give an account?

[Roll With The Punches]

alot of thing went against Foreman in that fight


i thought he was finished making excuses for it long ago though :dunno:

[Ugotabe Kidding]

The result should be changed to a NC, IMO.

Agreed. That means Foreman retained his title which he lost in 1977 to Jimmy Young, who became the undisputed champ :bears: Ali was never the world champ after 1967

[Hanzy]

The result should be changed to a NC, IMO.

:lol: on what grounds? The dude got taken out by Ali, couldn't beat the 10 count. Result is KO.

[steve_dave]

:lol: on what grounds? The dude got taken out by Ali, couldn't beat the 10 count. Result is KO.

I don't know... if I were drugged like George I would want people to take my word for it too. I say give him the benifit of the doubt, and overturn one of the greatest sport moments of the 20th century. :dunno:

[Hanzy]

I don't know... if I were drugged like George I would want people to take my word for it too. I say give him the benifit of the doubt, and overturn one of the greatest sport moments of the 20th century. :dunno:

:clap: :lol:

[steve_dave]

Agreed. That means Foreman retained his title which he lost in 1977 to Jimmy Young, who became the undisputed champ :bears: Ali was never the world champ after 1967

TRUE HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE LINEAGE!!!

Foreman
Young
Ken Norton
Larry Holmes

After that it's the same. I was kind of hoping it would be crazier.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Foreman's such an arsehole - slack ropes, drugs, dodgy water.
He was claiming this since 1974 right up until the early-to-mid 90s when he then said he was wrong and he really was beaten by the better man - now he's claiming he was drugged again?
Twat should stick to BBQ grills - that's all he's good for.

The guy is a jerk - Ron Lyle owned his ass, too. :bears:

[whiskey]

The result should be changed to a NC, IMO.

:lol:

[Erratic]

For all the talk about how he "finally accepted the loss", he still in his autobiography (released in the 90s) talked a lot about the possibility of being drugged.

Still, my favorite excuse is when he said he was about to KO Ali but was distracted in the audience by seeing his friend betray him by rooting for Ali.

[dsimon3387]

Foreman's such an arsehole - slack ropes, drugs, dodgy water.
He was claiming this since 1974 right up until the early-to-mid 90s when he then said he was wrong and he really was beaten by the better man - now he's claiming he was drugged again?
Twat should stick to BBQ grills - that's all he's good for.

The guy is a jerk - Ron Lyle owned his ass, too. :bears:

dsimon writes:

Well the jerk, who is pathetically only good for a few things in his life seems to have done pretty good at those things. his grills are top notch, he has made millions on them. He is a HOffer heavyweight. We should all be such fuck ups!

George thinks he was tampered with. Maybe he was. Do you know he was not? Can you vouch for the water he was drinking? Maybe someone did fuck with the ropes, the water, etc. It is a possability.

[slystaff]

He's been saying this since 1974.

As well as....

The ropes were made loose deliberately
It was a short count
Ali was hypnotized
He (George) was overtrained
The cut affected him
He ate bad oysters

[Erratic]

As well as....

The ropes were made loose deliberately
It was a short count
Ali was hypnotized
He (George) was overtrained
The cut affected him
He ate bad oysters

Being distracted in the audience by a disloyal friend when he was ready to knock Ali out is the best one of all.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

dsimon writes:

Well the jerk, who is pathetically only good for a few things in his life seems to have done pretty good at those things. his grills are top notch, he has made millions on them. He is a HOffer heavyweight. We should all be such fuck ups!

George thinks he was tampered with. Maybe he was. Do you know he was not? Can you vouch for the water he was drinking? Maybe someone did fuck with the ropes, the water, etc. It is a possability.
George Foreman says stuff on-air that makes FightBeat Forum posters stuff pretty credible. :nono:

Now, if only I can find that thread....

[dsimon3387]

George Foreman says stuff on-air that makes FightBeat Forum posters stuff pretty credible. :nono:

Now, if only I can find that thread....

dsimon writes:

Ohh you guys!! please! George is being tongue in cheek half the time.

He probably feels like somoene tried to sabatoge him. When one listens to George's commentary it is a fine art figuring out when he is pulling your leg and when he is serious.

I am still trying to figure out if he truly believes he can reanimate Tyson.:lol:

Just don't forget bitches this is a guy who said he could win the championship at an advanced age and did it against a damn good fighter in spectacular fashion!!:nono: :clap: ... and nobody took him seriously then either. I am not capping on Sly when I say that George has what is known as horse sense.... a sort of folk wisdom combined with philosophy.

[Erratic]

I am not capping on Sly when I say that George has what is known as horse sense.... a sort of folk wisdom combined with philosophy.

Damn, you guys are relentless with this one.

[Double L]

well, this is certainly one way to sell more books.

[REEDsART]

WOW!!!:eek:

All this Time,REED Thought Foreman "Lost Because of the Ring"...


REED:notallthere:

[Mean Mr Mustard]

dsimon writes:

Ohh you guys!! please! George is being tongue in cheek half the time.

He probably feels like somoene tried to sabatoge him. When one listens to George's commentary it is a fine art figuring out when he is pulling your leg and when he is serious.

I am still trying to figure out if he truly believes he can reanimate Tyson.:lol:

Just don't forget bitches this is a guy who said he could win the championship at an advanced age and did it against a damn good fighter in spectacular fashion!!:nono: :clap: ... and nobody took him seriously then either. I am not capping on Sly when I say that George has what is known as horse sense.... a sort of folk wisdom combined with philosophy.
Which was the quote when he suggested Fighter A was intimidated by Fighter B cos he 'looked wider'...or something? :dunno:

[REEDsART]

Which was the quote when he suggested Fighter A was intimidated by Fighter B cos he 'looked wider'...or something? :dunno:REED Can't Recall the Fighter,but George was Referencing his "Intimidating SHOULDERS":laughing:

It Might've been DeLa

REED:cool:

[slystaff]

REED Can't Recall the Fighter,but George was Referencing his "Intimidating SHOULDERS":laughing:

It Might've been DeLa

REED:cool:

The best "Foremanism" was when he said no one is P4P#1 until they beat James Page. :eeeek:

[whiskey]

REED Can't Recall the Fighter,but George was Referencing his "Intimidating SHOULDERS":laughing:

It Might've been DeLa

REED:cool:

It was. During the Tito fight.

[Erratic]

During Shane Mosley-Adrian Stone:

"He's got those leopard trunks and it throws you right off and messes with your eye sight"

We all know body punches are important, but I'm still convinced that Foreman over-emphasizing it and going nuts over it is still him justifying his pitiful game plan in Zaire.

"Oh my god, Holyfield jabbed Lewis in the chest!! In a couple of rounds Lewis is gonna fall!"

[StingerKarl]

Foreman's such an arsehole - slack ropes, drugs, dodgy water.
He was claiming this since 1974 right up until the early-to-mid 90s when he then said he was wrong and he really was beaten by the better man - now he's claiming he was drugged again?
Twat should stick to BBQ grills - that's all he's good for.

The guy is a jerk - Ron Lyle owned his ass, too. :bears:

Exactly.

[dsimon3387]

Which was the quote when he suggested Fighter A was intimidated by Fighter B cos he 'looked wider'...or something? :dunno:

dsimon writes:

:lol: :lol:.

[dsimon3387]

Damn, you guys are relentless with this one.

dsimon writes:

No seriously it is the best term for George's way. I wasn't using it to cap on Sly at all. The term comes from somoene having the sense to pick a winning horse in a race by physical inspection.

George can be silly but he has been very succesful. He is the guy that pointed out that a richer Mexican can beat a poorer Mexican sometimes (De La Hoya Vargas) :lol: :lol:

[REEDsART]

dsimon writes:

No seriously it is the best term for George's way. I wasn't using it to cap on Sly at all. The term comes from somoene having the sense to pick a winning horse in a race by physical inspection.

George can be silly but he has been very succesful. He is the guy that pointed out that a richer Mexican can beat a poorer Mexican sometimes (De La Hoya Vargas) :lol: :lol:(Paraphrasing)

"I've Seen Plenty of Poor Guys Lose & the Guy Eating the Egg Sandwich is the 1 who Beat Them" - Big George


REED:lol:

[LOK]

Foreman's such an arsehole - slack ropes, drugs, dodgy water.
He was claiming this since 1974 right up until the early-to-mid 90s when he then said he was wrong and he really was beaten by the better man - now he's claiming he was drugged again?
Twat should stick to BBQ grills - that's all he's good for.

The guy is a jerk - Ron Lyle owned his ass, too. :bears:

I like George he is a funny clown but you are right.. I mean.. come on dude.. he said it back then, then admitted he was wrong, now it's back again? WTF?:lol:

[REEDsART]

I like George he is a funny clown but you are right.. I mean.. come on dude.. he said it back then, then admitted he was wrong, now it's back again? WTF?:lol:Perhaps George FORGOT that he Admitted he was Wrong???

George "Musta Forgot"


REED:lol:

[slystaff]

dsimon writes:

No seriously it is the best term for George's way. I wasn't using it to cap on Sly at all. The term comes from somoene having the sense to pick a winning horse in a race by physical inspection.

George can be silly but he has been very succesful. He is the guy that pointed out that a richer Mexican can beat a poorer Mexican sometimes (De La Hoya Vargas) :lol: :lol:

Then why mention me at all? :dunno:

[whiskey]

George can be silly but he has been very succesful. He is the guy that pointed out that a richer Mexican can beat a poorer Mexican sometimes (De La Hoya Vargas) :lol: :lol:

It was funny when him and Lamps were talking about whether guys who are as rich as De La Hoya can still put 100% effort into training. After Oscar knocked out Vargas he said "Stay aways from guys that eat caviar" :lol:

[Erratic]

It was funny when him and Lamps were talking about whether guys who are as rich as De La Hoya can still put 100% effort into training. After Oscar knocked out Vargas he said "Stay aways from guys that eat caviar" :lol:

I also thought it was funny during that fight when George kept ragging on Floyd Sr.

"Oscar is going to have to go back to the days when he had good trainers"

[Rocco]

I don't know how anybody can deny that Foreman was drugged, unless of course you believe Ali vs Liston was legit, or Ali vs Norton, or Ali vs Young, etc. etc. etc. etc.. Before all Ali lovers get too excited and start crying, I don't think Ali was involved, but someone had his back.

[steve_dave]

I don't know how anybody can deny that Foreman was drugged, unless of course you believe Ali vs Liston was legit, or Ali vs Norton, or Ali vs Young, etc. etc. etc. etc.. Before all Ali lovers get too excited and start crying, I don't think Ali was involved, but someone had his back.

"I don't know how anyone can deny Foreman was drugged"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[steve_dave]

I don't know how anybody can deny that Foreman was drugged, unless of course you believe Ali vs Liston was legit, or Ali vs Norton, or Ali vs Young, etc. etc. etc. etc.. Before all Ali lovers get too excited and start crying, I don't think Ali was involved, but someone had his back.

Yeah, George was big on saying that the shoulder roll that Floyd Snr was trying to teach Oscar was for old, shot fighters. He wanted Oscar up on his toes popping the jab.

[Rocco]

And that's related how exactly?

[steve_dave]

And that's related how exactly?


It's all George related. It didn't take long for his drugged claim to be dismissed as stupid, but we still gotta talk some George.

[LOK]

(Paraphrasing)

"I've Seen Plenty of Poor Guys Lose & the Guy Eating the Egg Sandwich is the 1 who Beat Them" - Big George


REED:lol:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[LOK]

It was funny when him and Lamps were talking about whether guys who are as rich as De La Hoya can still put 100% effort into training. After Oscar knocked out Vargas he said "Stay aways from guys that eat caviar" :lol:

:lol:

remember when Bowe whupped someone and he said "Lennox.. if you are out there.. Join me.. DONT MESS WITH BOWE" :lol: George if nothing else has the best quotes ever:lol:

[dsimon3387]

Then why mention me at all? :dunno:

dsimon writes:

I tried to PM you, your space is used up. Sorry Sly. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I fucked up like this with another poster, as I am going on precious little sleep right now, not using the best judgement due to having to be on the computer 24/7 with restaurant suppliers, realtors, menu refinements, etc.

I had just read a post of yours, I thought it was on the Foreman thread, and as said " ". Next time I commit a fo Pa like this I will post a picture of myself in my avator and I have not been able to train for the last six months, so I am sure the gang would have a few choice comments reserved for me.:lol:

[Rocco]

Dismissed mostly by Ali fans. Most fans I know who followed the career of both and are unbiased realize many Ali fights had strange written all around them. The phantom punch is the single most stupid ridiculous thing I've ever heard of in boxing. And then you got the rope a dope? Isnt' that illegal? If not then why do Ali fans complain about Young when he really beat the crap out of Ali but again "suspicously lost". I see a lot of Ali fights with suspicious all around them. Why would George lie about this fight only? I see George as telling the truth, and George doesn't seem to be bitching about getting his ass kicked by Young, just Ali. I don't dismiss this claim as stupid at all.

[dsimon3387]

Perhaps George FORGOT that he Admitted he was Wrong???

George "Musta Forgot"


REED:lol:

dsimon wroites:

Big George is one of those guys like my grandpa on my mama'a side. He was big, smart as shit and always drunk and everybody thought he was a dunce but the truth was he forgot more than a lot of us will ever know.:lol:

[steve_dave]

Dismissed mostly by Ali fans. Most fans I know who followed the career of both and are unbiased realize many Ali fights had strange written all around them. The phantom punch is the single most stupid ridiculous thing I've ever heard of in boxing. And then you got the rope a dope? Isnt' that illegal? If not then why do Ali fans complain about Young when he really beat the crap out of Ali but again "suspicously lost". I see a lot of Ali fights with suspicious all around them. Why would George lie about this fight only? I see George as telling the truth, and George doesn't seem to be bitching about getting his ass kicked by Young, just Ali. I don't dismiss this claim as stupid at all.

How is laying on the ropes illegal?

[Rocco]

That's how Young beat Ali, and all I hear about that fight is how Young cheated because he used the ropes, well Ali used the ropes (leaning waaaaaaaay back on them and holding onto them) and held behind the head, isn't that illegal?

[steve_dave]

That's how Young beat Ali, and all I hear about that fight is how Young cheated because he used the ropes, well Ali used the ropes (leaning waaaaaaaay back on them and holding onto them) and held behind the head, isn't that illegal?


Who says Young cheated? Never heard that one.

[Rocco]

Wow, that's all I've ever heard when someone claims that Ali beat Young because Young cheated by using the ropes.

[steve_dave]

Wow, that's all I've ever heard when someone claims that Ali beat Young because Young cheated by using the ropes.

New to me bro. Most consider that dicision rather controversial... but Young cheated? Never heard that one.

[Erratic]

Dismissed mostly by Ali fans. Most fans I know who followed the career of both and are unbiased realize many Ali fights had strange written all around them. The phantom punch is the single most stupid ridiculous thing I've ever heard of in boxing. And then you got the rope a dope? Isnt' that illegal? If not then why do Ali fans complain about Young when he really beat the crap out of Ali but again "suspicously lost". I see a lot of Ali fights with suspicious all around them. Why would George lie about this fight only? I see George as telling the truth, and George doesn't seem to be bitching about getting his ass kicked by Young, just Ali. I don't dismiss this claim as stupid at all.

Fighting off the ropes, or the "rope-a-dope", was not new. Other guys in the past had done it too.

One reason why people dismiss Foreman's claim is because he's been making so many excuses for Zaire. Drugs, short count, loose ropes, witch's spell or whatever, etc...For Christ's sake, he blamed his loss on being distracted in the audience by a disloyal friend!

And Foreman may not whine about losing to Young, but he also claims in his autobiography that he was robbed against Holyfield.

Ali-Shavers was more "suspicious" than Ali-Foreman. Shavers won 9 rounds.

The judge who scored it 9-5-1 for Ali was a disgrace. The 9-6 cards for Ali are only slightly less disgraceful.

[REEDsART]

I don't know how anybody can deny that Foreman was drugged, unless of course you believe Ali vs Liston was legit, or Ali vs Norton, or Ali vs Young, etc. etc. etc. etc.. Before all Ali lovers get too excited and start crying, I don't think Ali was involved, but someone had his back.Speaking of someone "Having his Back",how about the Subject of your Avatar???...


REED:cool:

[Rocco]

Gift decisions = 0
Contraversy = 0
Who had his back?

[Erratic]

Gift decisions = 0
Contraversy = 0
Who had his back?

He had a couple controversial decisions go his way.

They weren't filmed (were they?), so we don't know about whether or not the controversy was justified.

[REEDsART]

Gift decisions = 0
Contraversy = 0
Who had his back?

CAREFULLY Handpicked Opposition = 49

The MOB Had Marciano's Back...Can U DENY This???...

REED has even Heard Talk that some Actual LOSSES may have Disappeared from the Resume of Marciano...


REED:cool:

[Rainmaker]

PetreTG should investigate this. Were there powers that wanted Foreman to lose?

[Rocco]

Carefully handpicked opposition? Who should he have fought?

The only decision I can remotely see as being close to contraversial is LaStarza, but it pales in comparison to Ali's IMO.

What did the mob do for Rocky? Tell Walcott to get KO'd for half an hour? :lol:

My guess is the losses your referring to happened to him as an amateur, yes, he had one pro fight and then went back to amateurs in which he did lose, but he lost as an amateur, he never lost as a professional.

[Son of Payton]

Ali leaned against the ropes and let people pound on him.

Jimmy Young leaned through the ropes, with half his body hanging outside the ring & out of reach. The only thing you could do to him then was hit him in the cup.


For all of Foreman's excuses re: Zaire, you could make a bit of a case for a short count. Foreman was on his feet at 9, but Zack Clayton didn't check to see if he could continue he merely kept counting. It's all a moot point, regardless.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Marciano was a monster! :bears:

[slystaff]

I don't know how anybody can deny that Foreman was drugged, unless of course you believe Ali vs Liston was legit, or Ali vs Norton, or Ali vs Young, etc. etc. etc. etc.. Before all Ali lovers get too excited and start crying, I don't think Ali was involved, but someone had his back.

:laughing:

[REEDsART]

Carefully handpicked opposition? Who should he have fought?

The only decision I can remotely see as being close to contraversial is LaStarza, but it pales in comparison to Ali's IMO.

What did the mob do for Rocky? Tell Walcott to get KO'd for half an hour? :lol:

My guess is the losses your referring to happened to him as an amateur, yes, he had one pro fight and then went back to amateurs in which he did lose, but he lost as an amateur, he never lost as a professional.:dunno:

Someone OTHER than the OLDEST Heavyweight Champ N History (@ the Time)????...Someone OTHER than a 42 Year Former MIDDLEWEIGHT(& Reigning Lightheavy Champ)???...Someone OTHER than the GHOST of Joe Louis???:dunno: :dunno: ...

Hell,even Ezzard Charles is a Former MIDDLEWEIGHT...

The Mob CLEARLY CONTROLLED the Rankings & Consequently the Champions AND Title Shots...We Also Know the Mob CLEARLY CONTROLLED the OUTCOMES of Many Fights,but U're Gonna Honestly Sit Here,SPECULATING on Ali like a Private Detective,w/Out Acknowledging the VERY REAL Possibility that Marciano Could've BENEFITTED from HIS Liasons???...

It was N the BEST INTERESTs of EVERYONE Involved to KEEP Marciano UNdefeated & N WINNABLE Fights,Back Then...

& Sorry,Playing "Musical Chairs" w/your Pro/Ammy Career (to DISGUISE Losses) is SHADIER than Anything that Happened w/Ali IN the Ring...

What Triggered REED's Response was YOUR Assertion that You're "Unbiased" as it Pertains to Ali...REED Remembers DEBATING w/U on JAWS' Forum Back N the Day...U're NOT Unbiased when it Comes to Ali:nono: ...

The Allegations U Made N your Postings R EVIDENCE...

REED:cool:

ps. Ali's Resume DEFECATES on Marciano's...

[Erratic]

And then you got the rope a dope? Isnt' that illegal?


No, but the punch behind the head to Rocky used to stop Charles was.


The only decision I can remotely see as being close to contraversial is LaStarza


Ted Lowry.

[Rocco]

:dunno:

Someone OTHER than the OLDEST Heavyweight Champ N History (@ the Time)????...Someone OTHER than a 42 Year Former MIDDLEWEIGHT(& Reigning Lightheavy Champ)???...Someone OTHER than the GHOST of Joe Louis???:dunno: :dunno: ...

Hell,even Ezzard Charles is a Former MIDDLEWEIGHT...

The Mob CLEARLY CONTROLLED the Rankings & Consequently the Champions AND Title Shots...We Also Know the Mob CLEARLY CONTROLLED the OUTCOMES of Many Fights,but U're Gonna Honestly Sit Here,SPECULATING on Ali like a Private Detective,w/Out Acknowledging the VERY REAL Possibility that Marciano Could've BENEFITTED from HIS Liasons???...

It was N the BEST INTERESTs of EVERYONE Involved to KEEP Marciano UNdefeated & N WINNABLE Fights,Back Then...

& Sorry,Playing "Musical Chairs" w/your Pro/Ammy Career (to DISGUISE Losses) is SHADIER than Anything that Happened w/Ali IN the Ring...

What Triggered REED's Response was YOUR Assertion that You're "Unbiased" as it Pertains to Ali...REED Remembers DEBATING w/U on JAWS' Forum Back N the Day...U're NOT Unbiased when it Comes to Ali:nono: ...

The Allegations U Made N your Postings R EVIDENCE...

REED:cool:

ps. Ali's Resume DEFECATES on Marciano's...

Am totally unbiased about Ali, just not blind. Ali was a great heavy, at least #1 or 2 all time, but he had many contraversies if you can deny that then perhaps I'm not the biased one....

You still didn't answer who Rocky should've fought, was there better than Charles, Moore, Walcott, Louis out there at the time, if so name them.......

As for the Charles was a middleweight or whatever, we could do that all day long with any fighter and I personally find it a waste of energy...

[Erratic]

Am totally unbiased about Ali, just not blind. Ali was a great heavy, at least #1 or 2 all time, but he had many contraversies if you can deny that then perhaps I'm not the biased one....

You still didn't answer who Rocky should've fought, was there better than Charles, Moore, Walcott, Louis out there at the time, if so name them.......

As for the Charles was a middleweight or whatever, we could do that all day long with any fighter and I personally find it a waste of energy...


Valdez deserved the title shot over Charles.

[REEDsART]

Am totally unbiased about Ali, just not blind. Ali was a great heavy, at least #1 or 2 all time, but he had many contraversies if you can deny that then perhaps I'm not the biased one....

You still didn't answer who Rocky should've fought, was there better than Charles, Moore, Walcott, Louis out there at the time, if so name them.......

As for the Charles was a middleweight or whatever, we could do that all day long with any fighter and I personally find it a waste of energy...Perhaps the Fighters who BEAT him as he FLIP-FLOPPED from Pro & Ammy???...

Edit* By the Way,REED is Definitely NOT "Unbiased" as it Pertains to REED...REED Absolutely ADORES Muhammad Ali...w/Out EVER Meeting him,Ali is 1 of THE Most IMPORTANT People to REED's Existence...

But REED can READILY ADMIT that Ali Got Quite a Few GIFTS N his Career...No Doubt about it...

Ali is a LIGHTNING Rod...REED has YET to Meet even ONE Boxing Fan who's 100% "UNbiased" as it Pertains to the Man...

[Rocco]

Perhaps the Fighters who BEAT him as he FLIP-FLOPPED from Pro & Ammy???...


REED:dunno:

makes about as much sense as Ali taking on Kent Green

[Rocco]

Valdez deserved the title shot over Charles.

If your referring to his win over Charles in 53, then ok I can kinda see that although his confidence wasn't really there as he had lost 4 or 5 in a row previously. He did however get a chance at it a couple years later but lost to Moore who went on to fight Rock.

[Black Market Baby]

He's got a new book, he was talking about this very issue on Dan Patrick today.

[Son of Payton]

In defense of Marciano, it wasn't his fault that Walcott was the then-oldest Heavyweight champion. You want a shot at the title, Walcott happened to be the champ, etc.

Ezzard Charles as a heavyweight was past his prime, but he was still a worthy contender as he had recently completed a four-fight series with the guy Rocky went to hell and back with in their first fight, Jersey Joe Walcott.

You shouldn't hold Archie Moore's age against him when referencing his fight w/Marciano, because we all know that Moore was a freak of nature. Age meant nothing when he is concerned, plus he was the reigning Light Heavyweight champion. Moving up back then wasn't as drastic weight-wise as it is now, as it was only a 10-15 pound difference in weight (as opposed to a 25 pound increase just to hit the 200 minimum, not taking into account that the average heavyweight today weighs around 225-230, which is a 50 pound difference).

True, Marciano's opposition wasn't the greatest ever, but he fought the best available opposition (as did Larry Holmes in the 80's). Guys like Patterson and Liston were still a few years away and Marciano was already an aging fighter. Sure he could have fought other guys like Valdez, or maybe a Bob Satterfield if he were more active, but would it have made that much of a difference?

[mexican wedding shirt]

In defense of Marciano, it wasn't his fault that Walcott was the then-oldest Heavyweight champion. You want a shot at the title, Walcott happened to be the champ, etc.

Ezzard Charles as a heavyweight was past his prime, but he was still a worthy contender as he had recently completed a four-fight series with the guy Rocky went to hell and back with in their first fight, Jersey Joe Walcott.

You shouldn't hold Archie Moore's age against him when referencing his fight w/Marciano, because we all know that Moore was a freak of nature. Age meant nothing when he is concerned, plus he was the reigning Light Heavyweight champion. Moving up back then wasn't as drastic weight-wise as it is now, as it was only a 10-15 pound difference in weight (as opposed to a 25 pound increase just to hit the 200 minimum, not taking into account that the average heavyweight today weighs around 225-230, which is a 50 pound difference).

True, Marciano's opposition wasn't the greatest ever, but he fought the best available opposition (as did Larry Holmes in the 80's). Guys like Patterson and Liston were still a few years away and Marciano was already an aging fighter. Sure he could have fought other guys like Valdez, or maybe a Bob Satterfield if he were more active, but would it have made that much of a difference?

I am not marciano fan, but I agree with you. I feel that Marciano is overrated, but you can't really take a dig about opposition - he fought the guys that were around at the time.

[Erratic]

True, Marciano's opposition wasn't the greatest ever, but he fought the best available opposition (as did Larry Holmes in the 80's).


I would actually give Marciano more credit here than larry.

Holmes fought quite a few guys with like 15 or so pro fights (while none of the WBA titlists, probably on orders from King) and didn't rematch the guys who gave him tough fights, while Marciano rematched Lowry, Lastarza, Walcott, and Charles.