You Would Imagine, With The Best Heavyweights, 175lbrs, 168lbrs, 140lbrs etc,

[Orthodox Crusader]

...That this sort of shit would actually be self evident.

Interesting then, that this Asiatic bloke, Steve Kim, is here to point the perfectly obvious out to what he thinks is an unsuspecting world.

http://www.maxboxing.com/Kim/Kim052207.asp

Kelly Pavlik - This White Guy Can Fight



For Pavlik and Co. this win was more than just about securing a title shot at Taylor - who would decision Spinks later that evening - it was about changing a stereotype/skepticism that exists with white fighters from the Midwest.

This white guy showed he can fight (a lot).

"I think I had to prove it," said the 25-year old native of Youngstown. "And I think that is behind us now. I think the world knows I'm legit." Pavlik would then point out that other world champions that have his complexion, like Wladimir Klitschko, Ricky Hatton, Joe Calzaghe and Mikkel Kessler. But what makes Pavlik unusual is that he hails from the United States. Which in the 21st century is a rarity.

And those who have handled his career have had to fight the perception that this wasn't just another built-up 'white hope' or a boxer to be used as cannon fodder.

"Well, forget Ohio, if you say you have a white fighter, they immediately say, 'He can't fight'. Doesn't matter if he's from New York City or Philadelphia, wouldn't matter. So you're always going to live with that. But y'know what? A lot of that's true and I'm not going to sit here and argue that it's not- because it is" says Dunkin (who, by the way, is
Caucasian himself), laughing at the subject. But Dunkin, who is one of the best bird-dogs in the industry, knew he signed a blue-chip prospect coming out of the amateurs. "BUT, BUT, a kid like this, he's special and you can see it. We saw it back at 'The Orleans' against Eric Olds (whom he brutally knocked out in 2002). So we knew years ago that the kid had something special."



Arum adds: "Let's be honest about it, white kids from the Midwest are not received as being really serious class-A fighters. They come in very often as road kill, to build up records and nobody takes them seriously. What I was saying is this kid is different and I couldn't convince anybody because he was white and from the Midwest."

But this snub was actually beneficial in the long-term development of Pavlik as a fledgling prospect. It gave Top Rank and Dunkin the free reign to pick and chose their bouts and to keep him as active as possible. Only chronic hand ailments have slowed his progress in the past.

[REEDsART]

Who's the Bloody Mouthed FAG N your Sig??...& Why is he Wearing a GOTdamn DUNCE Cap N the Other Pic??...

Just Asking


REED:dunno:

[Der Tiger]

The best 175Iber is either Dawson or Hopkins...

[Orthodox Crusader]

Who's the Bloody Mouthed FAG N your Sig??...& Why is he Wearing a GOTdamn DUNCE Cap N the Other Pic??...

Just Asking


REED:dunno:


Poor. Very poor. We rely heavily on two things in this Sport: Pageantry and Blood.

Arthur provides both. And wins.:nono:

[Orthodox Crusader]

The best 175Iber is either Dawson or Hopkins...


And?

I said 175lbrs....

Not best 175lbrs.

BEST refers to the Heavyweight div.

REED AGAIN!!:nono: :nono:

[*Z*]

It's as clear as day that Othodox Crusader is scared that his boy may have to face Pavlik in the future.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Who's the Bloody Mouthed FAG N your Sig??...& Why is he Wearing a GOTdamn DUNCE Cap N the Other Pic??...

Just Asking


REED:dunno:


Like a moth to a flame, eh reed???

You see a lampost, and you can't help lifting your leg to piss.

You're like an Octopus and a red cloth. You know its a trap, you just can't help yourself.

PS...would anyone like to answer the question at hand???

Thanks.

[*Z*]

Yes, it's true. The white man dominates the sport of boxing.

[Der Tiger]

And?

I said 175lbrs....

Not best 175lbrs.

BEST refers to the Heavyweight div.

REED AGAIN!!:nono: :nono:


So..what's you point? I could easily say non-whites make up a large part of the best 140Ibers and heavyweights without occupying the top spot..your observation is trivial, your motivation is dubious :nono:

[Orthodox Crusader]

Yes, it's true. The white man dominates the sport of boxing.


Steve Kim and the Ohio Boys Brigade think otherwise:dunno: :dunno:

[Orthodox Crusader]

So..what's you point? I could easily say non-whites make up a large part of the best 140Ibers and heavyweights without occupying the top spot..your observation is trivial, your motivation is dubious :nono:


Now we're getting somewhere........

...I think Kims motivation {Kim and his ilk being MY motivation} is to use the methaphor of the struggling white boxer, in particular, the metaphor of the struggling mid-western boxer, as a model for explaining Americas current woes in the Sport of boxing in General....without DIRECTLY alluding to America as a whole.

Its obvious, as you go down thru the divisions, that Whites are better represented now than they were, say 10 years ago. However, America is not anywhere near as well represented as used be: Divisions once dominated by America, Heavyweight and Light-Heavy, middleweight even, Welterweight too, have slipped somewhat. Not terminal by any means, but noticeably so nonetheless.

Rather than approach the argument as a whole, Kim seeks to use a more palatable format, one that the public can allude to more easily, that of the weak white fighter: an argument that has been rendered obsolete by the recent upward trend in White champions.

Yet Kim, unsurprisingly perhaps, persists with the "whiteboys can't fight" routine.:rolleyes:

[REEDsART]

Poor. Very poor. We rely heavily on two things in this Sport: Pageantry and Blood.

Arthur provides both. And wins.:nono:"Pageantry" ???...

R we Talking about a PRIZEFIGHTER or a MISS UNIVERSE CONTESTANT???...

Just Asking...

REED:dunno:

[REEDsART]

So..what's you point? I could easily say non-whites make up a large part of the best 140Ibers and heavyweights without occupying the top spot..your observation is trivial, your motivation is dubious :nono::bears:

The Only Thing Worse than an e-Troll is a Pissy,European e-Troll...


REED:lol:

[Orthodox Crusader]

"Pageantry" ???...

R we Talking about a PRIZEFIGHTER or a MISS UNIVERSE CONTESTANT???...

Just Asking...

REED:dunno:


Pageantry....

a rich and spectacular ceremony

an elaborate representation of scenes from history etc; usually involves a parade with rich costumes


You're thinking of a fucking PAGEANT...dunksi.

[Orthodox Crusader]

:bears:

The Only Thing Worse than an e-Troll is a Pissy,European e-Troll...


REED:lol:

Ha ha...Reed, like a tapeworm to dogshit, your presence in here is predictable.

Reed, how do you feel about your new found white friend Kelly Pavlik being deemed an exception to an outdated and osbolete rule of polite society??

[Der Tiger]

The article is a bit shitty though...I read Kim for boxing gossip and a few scoops, not for insightful commentary

[ElTerriblee]

Kim´s motivation is pretty simple. He hates Taylor like the rest of us. Sturm, Abraham, Miranda or now Pavlik. As long as he gets an opportunity to shit on Taylor, he´ll take it.

[Orthodox Crusader]

The article is a bit shitty though...I read Kim for boxing gossip and a few scoops, not for insightful commentary


IMHO he shouldn't be allowed to write at all.

Imagine if I said to you that Michael Essien was an exception to the rule, namely that Africans can't play soccer.

Imagine the outrcy.

Of course, there are some outstanding African soccer players

But there has never been an outstanding team.....perhaps Cameroon, 1990 or Senegal 2002. But thats it really.

Compare that to these "White Fighters"....who have been involved, successfully so, at the very highest levels, since day one.

You would imagine therefore, that Pavlik might be regarded as an extension of that lineage, that tradition, no??

Unfortunately, Kim tries to act as if no white yank ever won a belt in their lives.

And thats piss poor journalism, at best. At worst, its blatantly racist. Take your pick.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Kim´s motivation is pretty simple. He hates Taylor like the rest of us. Sturm, Abraham, Miranda or now Pavlik. As long as he gets an opportunity to shit on Taylor, he´ll take it.


Does he realise, that in promoting Pavlik, he's giving Pavlik the benefit of a doubt that, at least retrospectively, few were prepared to give Cooney when he beat Norton???

Pavlik has had one big win.

Thats it.

He is the epitome of the white-fighter stereotype...and Kim is ignoring that in order to take a swipe at Taylor??

Seems odd bro.

[REEDsART]

Ha ha...Reed, like a tapeworm to dogshit, your presence in here is predictable.

Reed, how do you feel about your new found white friend Kelly Pavlik being deemed an exception to an outdated and osbolete rule of polite society??Who CARES what Steve Kim Thinks???:dunno: ...

Your PASSION is Great,but U REALLY Should Channel your Angst ELSEWHERE...U're on FIGHTBEAT BITCHING about Something a MAXBoxing Writer Said???:dunno:

REVERSE the Whip on Kim,Write an Article about how "this Asian can Really Fight" & Email it to him...


REED:cool:

[Neil]

for the most part white americans CANT fight. the game of boxing has proven this recently with some exceptions. young white kids don't go to boxing gyms.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Who CARES what Steve Kim Thinks???:dunno: ...

Your PASSION is Great,but U REALLY Should Channel your Angst ELSEWHERE...U're on FIGHTBEAT BITCHING about Something a MAXBoxing Writer Said???:dunno:

REVERSE the Whip on Kim,Write an Article about how "this Asian can Really Fight" & Email it to him...


REED:cool:


He has access to webspace. Thats why I care what he thinks. If he was locked in a mental asylum, I wouldn't care. Instead, he's promulgating opinion.

PS...here is some pageantry...not everybody likes it, but it helps the game.

http://www.hbo.com/boxing/img/events/2006/1104_baldomir_mayweather/482x316/482x316%201.jpg

PS Floyd says to Arthur: Keep the helmet.

[Orthodox Crusader]

for the most part white americans CANT fight. the game of boxing has proven this recently with some exceptions. young white kids don't go to boxing gyms.

But they used to. There's an article in that alone.

[jarhead]

This article is stupid. If a guy can fight, he can fight. Has boxing been dominated by different ethnicities at certain weights? Sure. It isn't a skin issue, its and economic class issue. For the most part boxing has been a poor mans escape. This is why many immigrant Itallians and Irish boxed at the beginning of the century. And this is why you are seeing so many Eastern European fighters coming out since Communism fell apart there. As far as White fighters from the midwest, they are few and far between, because there are just not that many. The midwest focuses their young men on football and wrestling. Look in the MMA world. There are so many former wrestlers from the midwest as well if you look to the NFL.

Not everything is a race issue, although greedy ass promoters like Arum want you to believe that because it sells. You just have to do a little homework, which obviously this dumbass Kim didn't want to do.:nono:

[KaukipRrr]

Miranda and Pavlik have genetics similar to each other, just because Pavlik beat Miranda doesn't mean that I, as part of the white race, can get in there and beat him too, he'd fucken smash the shit out of my squealing white arse. This is why this kind've generalisation is just dumb irrational shit stirring. :nono:

[Orthodox Crusader]

You just have to do a little homework, which obviously this dumbass Kim didn't want to do.:nono:

Word. And not matter where the article comes from, it should be held up and derided as a POS for the mere sake of it.

Kim seems content, in one breath, to embrace Kim as 160's saviour, and then in the next breath he asks Kelly if he isn't the exception to a rule that really, when you get down to it, shouldn't have been made in the first place.

As I said...its poor journalism- at best. At worst....its something else.

[Neil]

actually-jarface- kim has said the same shit u just posted many times before in past articles.

[REEDsART]

He has access to webspace. Thats why I care what he thinks. If he was locked in a mental asylum, I wouldn't care. Instead, he's promulgating opinion.

PS...here is some pageantry...not everybody likes it, but it helps the game.

http://www.hbo.com/boxing/img/events/2006/1104_baldomir_mayweather/482x316/482x316%201.jpg

PS Floyd says to Arthur: Keep the helmet."Webspace" is like an Asshole...We ALL Have 1:lol: ...

REED Can Understand WHY Kim's Wording IRKED U...REED Doesn't Think Races should CROSS lines like that w/Each Other...Let a WHITE Writer Perpetuate the "Whites Can't Fight" Myth (like Neil is Doing)...

But the PROBLEM Is,U're Subjecting FIGHTBEAT Posters to YOUR Kim Fueled ANGST...U'd Probably Feel BETTER if U Lashed Out @ him on HIS Site,Don't U Think???:dunno: ...


REED:cool:

ps. Floyd has had some GOOD Ringwalks...The Baldomir Fight WASN'T 1 of them:nono: ...

[Orthodox Crusader]

actually kim has said the same shit u just posted many times before in past articles.


So our "Steve" has issues it seems.:notallthere:

What really sucks is if Taylor or someone else were to beat Pavlik, Kim would be the first to tell us that "Pavlik never beat anybody and we should know better than to think someone from Ohio can fight"....:cool: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Thats the reality of it.

[Orthodox Crusader]

"Webspace" is like an Asshole...We ALL Have 1:lol: ...

REED Can Understand WHY Kim's Wording IRKED U...REED Doesn't Think Races should CROSS lines like that w/Each Other...Let a WHITE Writer Perpetuate the "Whites Can't Fight" Myth (like Neil is Doing)...

But the PROBLEM Is,U're Subjecting FIGHTBEAT Posters to YOUR Kim Fueled ANGST...U'd Probably Feel BETTER if U Lashed Out @ him on HIS Site,Don't U Think???:dunno: ...


REED:cool:

ps. Floyd has had some GOOD Ringwalks...The Baldomir Fight WASN'T 1 of them:nono: ...


I wouldn't illuminate maxboxing with YOUR opinion, much less waste mine on it.:bears:

Kim, for me, is one of these "build them up then rip em down" types.

You mark my words: he will be the first to D-list Pavlik if/when the time comes.:nono:

PS Floyd was being carried. Not walking.

[REEDsART]

Miranda and Pavlik have genetics similar to each other, just because Pavlik beat Miranda doesn't mean that I, as part of the white race, can get in there and beat him too, he'd fucken smash the shit out of my squealing white arse. This is why this kind've generalisation is just dumb irrational shit stirring. :nono:"Fraud" would Make YOU his Girlfriend...


REED:tease:

[REEDsART]

I wouldn't illuminate maxboxing with YOUR opinion, much less waste mine on it.:bears:

Kim, for me, is one of these "build them up then rip em down" types.

You mark my words: he will be the first to D-list Pavlik if/when the time comes.:nono:

PS Floyd was being carried. Not walking.U must LIKE Being Upset or Something...

U KNOW AHEAD of Time that U'll Probably DISlike a Kim Article,yet U CONTINUE to REED his Shit???


REED:dunno:

[Neil]

So our "Steve" has issues it seems.:notallthere:

What really sucks is if Taylor or someone else were to beat Pavlik, Kim would be the first to tell us that "Pavlik never beat anybody and we should know better than to think someone from Ohio can fight"....:cool: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Thats the reality of it.

that is an assumption, a poor one, but I guess in your world that's reality.

[Orthodox Crusader]

U must LIKE Being Upset or Something...

U KNOW AHEAD of Time that U'll Probably DISlike a Kim Article,yet U CONTINUE to REED his Shit???


REED:dunno:


You give everybody a chance. Opinion is opinion, and its better to reed it and weep, than dislike it in ignorance. These writers have access to fighters, managers, promoters. Sometimes I reed it to see what THEY had to say....and not the "author". If it was me, the minute Kim started the "whites can/can't fight" routine, I'd have pulled the interview. :nono:

[KaukipRrr]

"Fraud" would Make YOU his Girlfriend...


REED:tease:

:crafty: Not if I'm between Margarito's legs, wearing his butterflies proboscus like a tapir trunk. Fraud aint comin' near..

[REEDsART]

:crafty: Not if I'm between Margarito's legs, wearing his butterflies proboscus like a tapir trunk. Fraud aint comin' near.."BETWEEN Margarito's Legs"...

BAD Visual...


REED:notallthere:

[Neil]

If it was me, the minute Kim started the "whites can/can't fight" routine, I'd have pulled the interview. :nono:

it wasn't you, because you can't fight.

does the trend disturb you, casper?

[Orthodox Crusader]

that is an assumption, a poor one, but I guess in your world that's reality.


It is an assumption......based more on reverse-reality than guesswork.

Case Study
When Vitali klitschko blew it against Chris Byrd, some of the invective was nothing short of foul. As he worked his way back into the division, the shit continued but became more subtle: to the effect that by the time he faced and beat Corrie Sanders, the likes of Kim were saying that the Sanders fight was not a fitting Heavyweight title bout, but was more suited to the undercard of a $10 dollar clubfight in the 1950's.

Its funny if you like that sort of thing:rolleyes:

Boxing doesn't benefit from that sort of horseshit. You better fucking belive the UFC gang appreciated that fight: and they {The UFC} are boxings main competitor.

[jarhead]

actually-jarface- kim has said the same shit u just posted many times before in past articles.

nice, name calling. :laughing: :laughing:

so you just made my point. He is a POS writer. If he wrote that in the past, then why change his mind now and write the opposite? Because he has no position whatsoever, just whatever might sound good at the passing moment? Maybe he should go into politics.

[jarhead]

that is an assumption, a poor one, but I guess in your world that's reality.

and it would be an assumption, and a poor one, for you to say Kim wouldn't write it. You already posted that he flip flops on this issue, now you actually think he won't do it again? :dunno:

[Orthodox Crusader]

it wasn't you, because you can't fight.

does the trend disturb you, casper?

I'm a half decent amateur.

PS..what trend???

[jarhead]

it wasn't you, because you can't fight.

does the trend disturb you, casper?

no he doesn't fight, do you?

What would you say if Orthodox made a remark about your skin color?:dunno: Would it be the same or would you be upset, screaming for him to be banned?:nono:

[Orthodox Crusader]

nice, name calling. :laughing: :laughing:

so you just made my point. He is a POS writer. If he wrote that in the past, then why change his mind now and write the opposite? Because he has no position whatsoever, just whatever might sound good at the passing moment? Maybe he should go into politics.


:bears: :bears:

You see how the likes of Floyd Mayweather react when they are challenged in the slightest fashion, a la with Merchant in the Baldomir fight aftermath. Perhaps thats the sentiment I am trying to capture. No matter who or where an attitude flos from, if you disagree with it, you should make it your business to oppose it. Thats all.

[Neil]

and it would be an assumption, and a poor one, for you to say Kim wouldn't write it. You already posted that he flip flops on this issue, now you actually think he won't do it again? :dunno:

flip flops? kim says that basically if you see a white guy from the midwest he typically can't fight. its true, either its a built up fraud like for instance m.vanda or a guy who falls over against jc chavez jr.

u merely pointed out reasons why this is true, which kim has done before in the past...why rehash the obvious in every article? you gringos are too sensitive

[Orthodox Crusader]

flip flops? kim says that basically if you see a white guy from the midwest he typically can't fight. its true, either its a built up fraud like for instance m.vanda or a guy who falls over against jc chavez jr.

u merely pointed out reasons why this is true, which kim has done before in the past...why rehash the obvious in every article? you gringos are too sensitive


:nono: :nono:

[REEDsART]

no he doesn't fight, do you?

What would you say if Orthodox made a remark about your skin color?:dunno: Would it be the same or would you be upset, screaming for him to be banned?:nono:F.Y.I.

NEIL is WHITE...

Seriously...


REED:lol:

[jarhead]

:bears: :bears:

You see how the likes of Floyd Mayweather react when they are challenged in the slightest fashion, a la with Merchant in the Baldomir fight aftermath. Perhaps thats the sentiment I am trying to capture. No matter who or where an attitude flos from, if you disagree with it, you should make it your business to oppose it. Thats all.

the name calling on this board actually drives me nuts. Maybe I'm getting old, it just seems so juvenile to me anymore. It isn't just Floyd's groupies, its anyone who sucks the tit of their favorite fighter. I have been a fan for far too long to do it anymore. You don't know these guys personally, they put on faces for the camera, they could be a worthless piece of shit for all you know. But if you suck the tit long enough, you won't allow anything they do to make you think anything else but the best of them. :rolleyes:

[Neil]

no he doesn't fight, do you?

What would you say if Orthodox made a remark about your skin color?:dunno: Would it be the same or would you be upset, screaming for him to be banned?:nono:

I wouldn't give a fuck. and I don't fight that shit aint lucrative.

[jarhead]

F.Y.I.

NEIL is WHITE...

Seriously...


REED:lol:

and I'm native American. Whats the point?:dunno:

[REEDsART]

and I'm native American. Whats the point?:dunno:REED Thought U were Taking OFFENSE to NEIL Calling O.C. "Casper"...

w/Out Knowing Neil is White,that WOULD B Offensive...

Just Clarying...


REED:cool:

[jarhead]

REED Thought U were Taking OFFENSE to NEIL Calling O.C. "Casper"...

w/Out Knowing Neil is White,that WOULD B Offensive...

Just Clarying...


REED:cool:

I got it.

I just get a little edgey to any name calling when it refers to skin color. Don't really care what the source is. I have dealt with my fare share of it. No harm no foul, I would say though.

[jarhead]

I wouldn't give a fuck. and I don't fight that shit aint lucrative.

just so you know, most people do care about racial undertones.

and you're right, fighting isn't lucrative, probably less that 5% get paid well. I just like the training, keeps me fit. Peace.:cool:

[winner by choke]

flip flops? kim says that basically if you see a white guy from the midwest he typically can't fight. its true, either its a built up fraud like for instance m.vanda or a guy who falls over against jc chavez jr.

u merely pointed out reasons why this is true, which kim has done before in the past...why rehash the obvious in every article? you gringos are too sensitive

saying white people from the midwest can't fight is retarded...i think you mean they can not box. because the american midwest produces some of the best wrestlers in the world.

[Orthodox Crusader]

saying white people from the midwest can't fight is retarded...i think you mean they can not box. because the american midwest produces some of the best wrestlers in the world.


I don't like the UFC...in fact I detest a lot of its aspects, and whilst I figure a good boxer would ice half of them, its dominated by crackers that I would want NOTHING to do with on a Saturday night.:nono:

[valdosta]

i think you mean they can not box.

It's a boxing board so yeah that's what he meant and for the most part 99.99999% of white americans in general suck.

[winner by choke]

thats not what is implied by the saying "white people cant fight" or that it is a stereotype.

sounded to me like whoever said it meant in general.

[Rubio MHS]

It's a boxing board so yeah that's what he meant and for the most part 99.99999% of white americans in general suck.Only poor people are good at boxing. Black Americans are poor, so they're good at boxing. White Eastern Europeans are even poorer, so they're good at boxing.

[Free Ike]

and I'm native American. Whats the point?:dunno:
Neil is not white.

[whiskey]

Only poor people are good at boxing. Black Americans are poor, so they're good at boxing. White Eastern Europeans are even poorer, so they're good at boxing.

Yep. There are only a small number of good/great fighters that came from something even remotely resembling a privileged background.