So tell me again how the UFC isn't aligning itself with boxing

[Jake]

Tired of paying your hard-earned cash for events packed with hype and little else? Sick of sitting down for a pay-per-view event and finding out that you’re paying over $50 for just three fights that include a showcase and a mismatch? UFC 71: LIDDELL vs. JACKSON is the cure for what is ailing fight fans!

The lead in to the press release hyping up UFC71.

The sport that sells itself :rolleyes:

[Orthodox Crusader]

Tired of paying your hard-earned cash for events packed with hype and little else? Sick of sitting down for a pay-per-view event and finding out that you’re paying over $50 for just three fights that include a showcase and a mismatch? UFC 71: LIDDELL vs. JACKSON is the cure for what is ailing fight fans!

The lead in to the press release hyping up UFC71.

The sport that sells itself :rolleyes:


Damn right....the UFC ain't shit and it never will be. I can't stand that Dana White "ohhh I used to be an amateur boxer I love boxing etc"...what a stooge.

I can't wait for an elite boxer to take on some of this riff-raff and just beat the shit out of them.

[ILLUMINATI]

Tired of paying your hard-earned cash for events packed with hype and little else? Sick of sitting down for a pay-per-view event and finding out that you’re paying over $50 for just three fights that include a showcase and a mismatch? UFC 71: LIDDELL vs. JACKSON is the cure for what is ailing fight fans!

The lead in to the press release hyping up UFC71.

The sport that sells itself :rolleyes:

:lol::lol: DLH vs. Mayweathe was competitive MAIN EVENT...Liddell vs. Jackson II was a SHOWCASE and a MISMATCH all in one....:eeeek::laughing:

whats next Jackson vs. Liddell III..."this time it's for real"

[His_Royness]

:lol::lol: DLH vs. Mayweathe was competitive MAIN EVENT...Liddell vs. Jackson II was a SHOWCASE and a MISMATCH all in one....:eeeek::laughing:

whats next Jackson vs. Liddell III..."this time it's for real"



oh pleaaaase... maybe this time u will get even odds at the bookies... :laughing: :laughing:

[Bob N Weave]

Tired of paying your hard-earned cash for events packed with hype and little else? Sick of sitting down for a pay-per-view event and finding out that you’re paying over $50 for just three fights that include a showcase and a mismatch? UFC 71: LIDDELL vs. JACKSON is the cure for what is ailing fight fans!

The lead in to the press release hyping up UFC71.

The sport that sells itself :rolleyes:
Yeah, all the while the UFC PPV's get worse and worse. At least in the beginning, the cards wer epacked. Now they are shit.

[Orthodox Crusader]

I'd love to see BJ Penn Jab the shit out of Matt Hughes some more, before running out of gas after 4 minutes and being grounded and pounded in the next "round".

The reason their rounds are so long is so that they can stand there and posture while they get their breath back and figure out complex take downs.

A half decent boxer would have taken them to pieces by that stage.

:rolleyes:

:flip: THE UFC

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

Tired of paying your hard-earned cash for events packed with hype and little else? Sick of sitting down for a pay-per-view event and finding out that you’re paying over $50 for just three fights that include a showcase and a mismatch? UFC 71: LIDDELL vs. JACKSON is the cure for what is ailing fight fans!

The lead in to the press release hyping up UFC71.

The sport that sells itself :rolleyes:
3 fights on the last PPV was a total of 118 minutes of action. They had 5 fights tonight 2 went the distance 15 minutes. 2 ended in round 1 and 1 ended in round 2. Thats like a total of around 40 minutes.

[ILLUMINATI]

3 fights on the last PPV was a total of 118 minutes of action. They had 5 fights tonight 2 went the distance 15 minutes. 2 ended in round 1 and 1 ended in round 2. Thats like a total of around 40 minutes.

However sometimes short fights are better...esp. when Rocky Juarez is fighting...

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

However sometimes short fights are better...esp. when Rocky Juarez is fighting...Yeah sure. All im saying is boxing has less fights because the fights last longer. UFC would need a card with 20 fights to get the amount of fight time Boxing gets in 2 bouts.

[Kenny]

I might be the minority but UFC looks better since the last time I've seen it. The last time I saw UFC was its humping day. Now, seem like they strike more. Boxing on the other hand, mandated havier goves, experimented with open scoring kind of moving backwords. I still rather watch boxing unless Rocky, Guinn, Rahem or spinks is fighting, but UFC not that bad.

[Azazel]

I love MMA, but UFC is mainly shit with all those sucky PPV they put on ( and boxing suck too now btw ). Incredible how people say boxing should follow the UFC route, they already done it 20 years ago.

[Tam Tam]

PPV results speak for themselves. You all wouldn't be crying so much if you didn't feel threatened. Its a fact.

[3OG]

Damn right....the UFC ain't shit and it never will be. I can't stand that Dana White "ohhh I used to be an amateur boxer I love boxing etc"...what a stooge.

I can't wait for an elite boxer to take on some of this riff-raff and just beat the shit out of them.

You don't have to wait for an elite boxer to get in the cage. Butter Bean has moved to MMA and is whipin ass!!! Goto youtube.com and type Butter Bean MMA. He's stoping guys in Pride and in the cage with just clean punching. In one of the fights he even taps a guy!!!! lol:laughing: So they should continue to out law skilled fighters. Tonight Rampage prove Chuck is not a top skill striker. Just think if he would have taken the Tommy Morrison fight.:eek:

[ILLUMINATI]

PPV results speak for themselves. You all wouldn't be crying so much if you didn't feel threatened. Its a fact.

The UFC has gain alot of middle class fanboys over the last 2 years.....:dunno:

[Tam Tam]

You don't have to wait for an elite boxer to get in the cage. Butter Bean has moved to MMA and is whipin ass!!! Goto youtube.com and type Butter Bean MMA. He's stoping guys in Pride and in the cage with just clean punching. In one of the fights he even taps a guy!!!! lol:laughing: So they should continue to out law skilled fighters. Tonight Rampage prove Chuck is not a top skill striker. Just think if he would have taken the Tommy Morrison fight.:eek:
Bean is a joke in MMA. His fights are worked, just like they were in boxing FOR YEARS as he filled up PPV spots which could have gone to credible athletes.

You mention Butterbean as if its a slur on MMA. He made his name, his money and his career, in boxing.

[Mitchell Kane]

PPV results speak for themselves. You all wouldn't be crying so much if you didn't feel threatened. Its a fact.

It's a bit misleading to only point to ppv numbers when one sport is almost entirely shown on ppv, while the other isn't.

The UFC rarely has quality fights on free tv...because it doesn't have the depth of talent or recognizable competitors to do it and still draw a crowd and a television audience.

In contrast, the vast majority of boxing events are not on ppv.

If you're just going to selectively comparing the two, why not compare the annual live gate and attendance figures for all boxing events and MMA events both in the US and worldwide?

[Tam Tam]

The UFC has gain alot of middle class fanboys over the last 2 years.....:dunno:
Get used to it, Spicamus, cos there will be a lot more coming in the next few years.

[Tam Tam]

It's a bit misleading to only point to ppv numbers when one sport is almost entirely shown on ppv, while the other isn't.

The UFC rarely has quality fights on free tv...because it doesn't have the depth of talent or recognizable competitors to do it and still draw a crowd and a television audience.

In contrast, the vast majority of boxing events are not on ppv.

If you're just going to selectively comparing the two, why not compare the annual live gate and attendance figures for all boxing events and MMA events both in the US and worldwide?
I would gladly compare the average number of fans in attendance in the states.

And on the subject of Jakes comment: how is this aligning WITH boxing? Seems to me they're doing the exact opposite here and using boxing's negative media representation and fan reaction and oppose themselves to it. An alternative.

Thats not what you do when you align yourself with another.

[ILLUMINATI]

Get used to it, Spicamus, cos there will be a lot more coming in the next few years.

NOT if "the" Quinton Jackson keep dominating the billy bob..i mean the Chuck Liddell of the UFC...:popcorn:...they might be more coming but not middle class midwest..

[Mitchell Kane]

I would gladly compare the average number of fans in attendance in the states.

And on the subject of Jakes comment: how is this aligning WITH boxing? Seems to me they're doing the exact opposite here and using boxing's negative media representation and fan reaction and oppose themselves to it. An alternative.

Thats not what you do when you align yourself with another.

It's not the averages I'm talking about.

Nice try.

[Tam Tam]

Ugh, why even bother. You stick to what you know and keep slagging off the competition every chance you get. You're not better than the scum you are fighting against.

Every thread on here HAS to have some jerk badmouthing the sport. Why? Don't like it, ignore it? Thats what the sport itself has chosen to do for so many years and look where its got them? Which way do you think the numbers are trending?

Yeah, you stick to your totals and nice figures right now. They won't be that way in 5 years time and with such a negative attitude towards it and a reluctance to adapt, you'll have nowhere to turn to when it finally happens.

Enjoy your ignorance, I'm watching the football.

[Tam Tam]

NOT if "the" Quinton Jackson keep dominating the billy bob..i mean the Chuck Liddell of the UFC...:popcorn:...they might be more coming but not middle class midwest..
Yeah, you do what you do best; introduce race into every argument. :shit:

[ILLUMINATI]

Yeah, you do what you do best; introduce race into every argument. :shit:

It fits...look at the UFC crowd it usually...90-95 % what..? :shit:

[ILLUMINATI]

UFC has been doing waht the WWF did back in the 80's buy off smaller companies, eliminating the competition and taking their biggest stars...it will have a run for a few years....then slow down. Tonight it might have taken a big hit their most popular fighter with teh newer fanboy fanbase got destroyed...

[Mitchell Kane]

Ugh, why even bother. You stick to what you know and keep slagging off the competition every chance you get. You're not better than the scum you are fighting against.

Every thread on here HAS to have some jerk badmouthing the sport. Why? Don't like it, ignore it? Thats what the sport itself has chosen to do for so many years and look where its got them? Which way do you think the numbers are trending?

Yeah, you stick to your totals and nice figures right now. They won't be that way in 5 years time and with such a negative attitude towards it and a reluctance to adapt, you'll have nowhere to turn to when it finally happens.

Enjoy your ignorance, I'm watching the football.

Badmouthing the sport?

Show me where I did anything of the sort.

You said the "PPV results speak for themselves. You all wouldn't be crying so much if you didn't feel threatened. Its a fact."

I simply responded by saying that it's a rather selective comparison.

Boxing is still a much bigger sport both nationally and worldwide, which is why there is still a far greater number of boxing events than MMA events.

The amount of people that go to boxing events is still far great than the number of people went to MMA events, and the same with the amount of money generated by the two.

But stick to the ppv numbers, because they're better for your argument.

[Haymaker]

I would gladly compare the average number of fans in attendance in the states.

You got asked about the fans in attendance IN THE WORLD

[ILLUMINATI]

:lol:

[ElTerriblee]

Liddell is a bum. Always said it, thank you. :cheer: :cheer:

[Azazel]

Bean is a joke in MMA. His fights are worked, just like they were in boxing FOR YEARS as he filled up PPV spots which could have gone to credible athletes.

You mention Butterbean as if its a slur on MMA. He made his name, his money and his career, in boxing.
Butterbean, older,fatter anda lot worse, is far more accomplished in MMA than in boxing, not even close.

[Ron King 702]

Why all the hate for UFC?!??!

It is what it is. A sport different from boxing altogether. I was highly entertained tonight- I was at the fight. Its a different type of entertainment than boxing is. I enjoyed the DLH fight MUCH more because it feels like a sporting event. UFC feels mor eto me like a concert or performance.

[Jake]

I would gladly compare the average number of fans in attendance in the states.

And on the subject of Jakes comment: how is this aligning WITH boxing? Seems to me they're doing the exact opposite here and using boxing's negative media representation and fan reaction and oppose themselves to it. An alternative.

Thats not what you do when you align yourself with another.
Point taken, wrong choice of words. I was looking to point out that the UFC does in fact use boxing to promote itself, to dispute claims to the contrary, often made by UFC apologists on this very board.

To your earlier claim - I didn't post this thread because I feel "threatened" by UFC's success. I posted it because that press release caught my eye. It was an obvious dig at boxing. Only the irony being the one cat they've been hyping up forever winds up fighting tentatively (to put it kindly) and gets put down with the first real punch Rampage landed.
You all wouldn't be crying so much if you didn't feel threatened. Its a fact.

[Trplsec]

Point taken, wrong choice of words. I was looking to point out that the UFC does in fact use boxing to promote itself, to dispute claims to the contrary, often made by UFC apologists on this very board.

To your earlier claim - I didn't post this thread because I feel "threatened" by UFC's success. I posted it because that press release caught my eye. It was an obvious dig at boxing. Only the irony being the one cat they've been hyping up forever winds up fighting tentatively (to put it kindly) and gets put down with the first real punch Rampage landed.


No doubt. If I want to watch a guy dance around and afraid to mix it up, I'll watch the Floyd-Oscar fight tape.. At least Floyd does it with style.

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

No doubt. If I want to watch a guy dance around and afraid to mix it up, I'll watch the Floyd-Oscar fight tape.. At least Floyd does it with style.Floyd is a legend. None of these MMA bums can hold Floyds jockstrap.

[ILLUMINATI]

No doubt. If I want to watch a guy dance around and afraid to mix it up, I'll watch the Floyd-Oscar fight tape.. At least Floyd does it with style.

Liddell doesn't have the skills to move like Mayweather...and Floyd did mix it up, but just wasn't KOTFO like we thought he woud be if he did.

[Orthodox Crusader]

It fits...look at the UFC crowd it usually...90-95 % what..? :shit:


You could say the same about boxing.....what % of the crowd at the Ali fights were white? Shit...even at the Foreman-Ali fight, the crowd was STILL white.

[ILLUMINATI]

You could say the same about boxing.....what % of the crowd at the Ali fights were white? Shit...even at the Foreman-Ali fight, the crowd was STILL white.

What about Sanche vs. Gomez, Duran vs. De Jesus, etc,etc....of course whites are going to be the majority of fans on all/any sports..basketball, football the fans would be 60-70% white..they are the majority of the population in the country. The problem with the ufc fans at least the recent ones is that they are not a fan of mma, but fans of ufc and ufc fightrs like Liddell, Couture, Hughes, Ortiz, let see how the react to the NON american fighters coming over from Pride...that will surely dominate all the establish UFC champions.

[Orthodox Crusader]

What about Sanche vs. Gomez, Duran vs. De Jesus, etc,etc....of course whites are going to be the majority of fans on all/any sports..basketball, football the fans would be 60-70% white..they are the majority of the population in the country. The problem with the ufc fans at least the recent ones is that they are not a fan of mma, but fans of ufc and ufc fightrs like Liddell, Couture, Hughes, Ortiz, let see how the react to the NON american fighters coming over from Pride...that will surely dominate all the establish UFC champions.


Of course they will...and hey...I always disagreed with the cracker mentality of the UFC....its glorified youtube bullshit. Thats all. I never liked it. I think guys from Pride are waaaaay better.

[Mitchell Kane]

You could say the same about boxing.....what % of the crowd at the Ali fights were white? Shit...even at the Foreman-Ali fight, the crowd was STILL white.

I'm not sure you can say the same thing about boxing.

Depending on the location and fighters involved, you might see an American crowd with vast numbers of Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Filipinos, etc.

[LATIN KING]

I'm not into MMA like before. But all I've heard and saw on the sports networks was that Chuck Lidell was the face of UFC, basically their biggest star. Well him getting Owned in one minuted ended all that last night. :laughing:

[Jake]

No doubt. If I want to watch a guy dance around and afraid to mix it up, I'll watch the Floyd-Oscar fight tape.. At least Floyd does it with style.
And even at that, boxing fans knew what to expect up front. Maybe true-blue UFC fans expected a 2 minute fight, but certainly not the 100's or so that personally demanded I order this fight last night (which I didn't, but watched online for free moments later).

That's why I never went along with the tagline that it was our 'duty' as boxing fans to ensure that everyone ordered Floyd-Oscar. I didn't want to recommend a fight that I thought should sell itself anyway.

All that said, boxing isn't big around this way; MMA (and UFC in particular) is, though to be expected in NASCAR country. There are more and more shows popping up in Kentucky and Mississippi (Tennessee still classifies it as toughman, which is banned in the state).

The Showtime MMA show in Mississippi earlier in the year drew 7,500 fans; the ShoBox super middleweight finals held in the same arena a month prior had an announced paid attendance of 82 :lol: (about 400 people in the arena in total, including the Showtime staff and Gary Shaw Productions). So there definitely is a market for the sport that boxing clearly isn't capturing. But the crowd it attracts is along the lines of the suggestions within this thread.

Anyway, all that said, was curious to see the PPV turnout for this one. In and around Nashville, I'd say that 1 out of 10 had a Floyd-Oscar poster in the front window. No fewer than 8 out of 10 had a poster up for this fight, and almost every bar was showing the fight.

[Free Ike]

ufc>boxing. Deal with it.

[steve_dave]

ufc>boxing. Deal with it.

You like it more or it's more popular?

[Free Ike]

You like it more or it's more popular?
I like watching the 6 good boxing fights there are per year more, but the UFC IS VASTLY SUPERIOR IN TERMS of marketability and boxing could learn a lot from it. I would much rather pay for a UFC ppv than a boxing PPV with one fight which sucks like Oscar/Floyd.

[KaukipRrr]

Fuck Chuck Liddel, watch fighters like Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera, or recently Fedor Emelianenko, these guys have truelly raised the bar, Chuck Liddel on the otherhand is just part of the old bar room brawling prototype, he's never distinguished himself as a standout, maybe in the UFC as they were reshuffling him around with Tito Ortiz or a 50 year old ex-wrestler in Randy Courture,..but the UFC has always seriously sucked in comparison to Pride.

[ILLUMINATI]

And even at that, boxing fans knew what to expect up front. Maybe true-blue UFC fans expected a 2 minute fight, but certainly not the 100's or so that personally demanded I order this fight last night (which I didn't, but watched online for free moments later).

That's why I never went along with the tagline that it was our 'duty' as boxing fans to ensure that everyone ordered Floyd-Oscar. I didn't want to recommend a fight that I thought should sell itself anyway.

All that said, boxing isn't big around this way; MMA (and UFC in particular) is, though to be expected in NASCAR country. There are more and more shows popping up in Kentucky and Mississippi (Tennessee still classifies it as toughman, which is banned in the state).

The Showtime MMA show in Mississippi earlier in the year drew 7,500 fans; the ShoBox super middleweight finals held in the same arena a month prior had an announced paid attendance of 82 :lol: (about 400 people in the arena in total, including the Showtime staff and Gary Shaw Productions). So there definitely is a market for the sport that boxing clearly isn't capturing. But the crowd it attracts is along the lines of the suggestions within this thread.

Anyway, all that said, was curious to see the PPV turnout for this one. In and around Nashville, I'd say that 1 out of 10 had a Floyd-Oscar poster in the front window. No fewer than 8 out of 10 had a poster up for this fight, and almost every bar was showing the fight.

so i'm not a racist..?
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3714/11hiphopcartmanll1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Matchup_Analyzer]

I like Boxing and I like MMA

I heard most of the fights last night ended up being KTFO's or submissions. :clap:

[pug]

I think that the UFC is basicially the WWF-WWE, WCW Whatever but with real contact.
Even Dana White (That fake ass boxing hater) reminds me of Vince McMahon:lol:

Wrestling never overcame boxing and neither will the extreme humperama that be, UFC.

[Mitchell Kane]

I think that the UFC is basicially the WWF-WWE, WCW Whatever but with real contact.
Even Dana White (That fake ass boxing hater) reminds me of Vince McMahon:lol:

Wrestling never overcame boxing and neither will the extreme humperama that be, UFC.

It's no secret that the UFC's marketing approach borrowed heavily from pro wrestling (and boxing) - including it's reality tv series - and draws heavily from the fan base that was built by Vince McMahon and the WWF.

[winner by choke]

You don't have to wait for an elite boxer to get in the cage. Butter Bean has moved to MMA and is whipin ass!!! Goto youtube.com and type Butter Bean MMA. He's stoping guys in Pride and in the cage with just clean punching. In one of the fights he even taps a guy!!!! lol:laughing: So they should continue to out law skilled fighters. Tonight Rampage prove Chuck is not a top skill striker. Just think if he would have taken the Tommy Morrison fight.:eek:

You do realize they are fighting with 4 OZ gloves, right?

Liddell would brutalize Tommy Morrison.

He fought an accomplished golden gloves boxer in Noe Hernandez and took him down and lay and prayed his way to an easy decision. He also has knocked out Guy Metzger, Alistair Overeem and nearly knocked out Vitor Belfort. All of those guys are very solid strikers.

What about Nishijima who was a cruiserweight champ 0-3 in PRIDE??

Or Melton Bowen who was a solid fighter lost to a "ninja" cop, Steve Jennum.
Or Joe Louis, who said if Helio Gracie (135 LBS) got a hold of him he would be done for (even before MMA existed)

Two guys won last night simply utitlizing boxing techniques, but these guys have other skill sets as well and saying it is a skilless brawl is equivalent to saying boxing is a pillow fight.

hahaha maybe you should join the UFC 3OG, you'd brutalize all those guys im sure :rolleyes:

[ILLUMINATI]

You do realize they are fighting with 4 OZ gloves, right?

Liddell would brutalize Tommy Morrison.



:dunno: really...Morrison would kill Liddell in the octagon or a ring....unless Morrison gassed out...but i think he has the stamina it take for the ko...what 30-40 seconds..?

[winner by choke]

:dunno: really...Morrison would kill Liddell in the octagon or a ring....unless Morrison gassed out...but i think he has the stamina it take for the ko...what 30-40 seconds..?

Morrison in his prime I'd give a good 25% chance at beating Liddell in the octagon but not anymore.

Despite what happened last night Chuck has a proven chin, and with his leg kicks and wrestling background Tommy Morrison would never be in position to land any shots like the ones Rampage landed last night.

Liddell has taken heavy shots from Vitor Belfort, Alistair Overeem, Pele, Rampage in the first fight, Guy Metzger and never been KOed...last night he took a big shot right on the chin when he was out of position.

A boxer that could possibly succeed in MMA is someone like Oneil Bell or Kermit Cintron who already have extensive wrestling backgrounds.

[Mitchell Kane]

You do realize they are fighting with 4 OZ gloves, right?

Liddell would brutalize Tommy Morrison.

He fought an accomplished golden gloves boxer in Noe Hernandez and took him down and lay and prayed his way to an easy decision. He also has knocked out Guy Metzger, Alistair Overeem and nearly knocked out Vitor Belfort. All of those guys are very solid strikers.

What about Nishijima who was a cruiserweight champ 0-3 in PRIDE??

Or Melton Bowen who was a solid fighter lost to a "ninja" cop, Steve Jennum.
Or Joe Louis, who said if Helio Gracie (135 LBS) got a hold of him he would be done for (even before MMA existed)

Two guys won last night simply utitlizing boxing techniques, but these guys have other skill sets as well and saying it is a skilless brawl is equivalent to saying boxing is a pillow fight.

hahaha maybe you should join the UFC 3OG, you'd brutalize all those guys im sure :rolleyes:

Are you going to bring up Jens Pulver and Chris Lytle, next?

I was actually at the fight Nishjima was flattened by McKenzie...not sure what made him a champion (despite what the WBF says). Calling him a champ may cut it on an MMA board, but not a boxing one.

The same with calling Melton Bowen a solid fighter. Most fans who have followed the sport long enough can probably still remember his 30 seconds against Shannon Briggs on TNF.

Last night amounted to a boxing match between two amateur boxers...one of whom (Liddell) looked completely intimated by the striking ability of the other. He was on his bike the entire fight, and threw most of the few punches he did throw like he didn't even want to land...and got caught after throwing an atrocious left to the body. (BTW, just thought I'd say it amazes me what passes for "footwork" in MMA - according to Randy Couture).

I have respect for the sport of MMA. I've seen several events in person and follow it on tv and the internet to some degree, but fans like you who come on boxing message boards and start making posts like yours are part of the reason why some boxing fans aren't more receptive to the sport.

[Hanzy]

Morrison in his prime I'd give a good 25% chance at beating Liddell in the octagon but not anymore.

Despite what happened last night Chuck has a proven chin, and with his leg kicks and wrestling background Tommy Morrison would never be in position to land any shots like the ones Rampage landed last night.

Liddell has taken heavy shots from Vitor Belfort, Alistair Overeem, Pele, Rampage in the first fight, Guy Metzger and never been KOed...last night he took a big shot right on the chin when he was out of position.

A boxer that could possibly succeed in MMA is someone like Oneil Bell or Kermit Cintron who already have extensive wrestling backgrounds.

Chuck's garbage!:lol:Anybody who knew anything about MMA knew that Chuck was getting victories over 'wrestlers' with no idea how to throw hands. Rampage is just too good for him in every way. Rampage actually has a clue how to throw and how to slip. Chuck can't deal with somebody who shows a little upper body movement. That's the difference between KOing wrestlers compared to strikers. Chuck is a sorry-ass striker, dude has so many flaws in his game, it's laughable.

[winner by choke]

Are you going to bring up Jens Pulver and Chris Lytle, next?

I was actually at the fight Nishjima was flattened by McKenzie...not sure what made him a champion (despite what the WBF says). Calling him a champ may cut it on an MMA board, but not a boxing one.

The same with calling Melton Bowen a solid fighter. Most fans who have followed the sport long enough can probably still remember his 30 seconds against Shannon Briggs on TNF.

Last night amounted to a boxing match between two amateur boxers...one of whom (Liddell) looked completely intimated by the striking ability of the other. He was on his bike the entire fight, and threw most of the few punches he did throw like he didn't even want to land...and got caught after throwing an atrocious left to the body. (BTW, just thought I'd say it amazes me what passes for "footwork" in MMA - according to Randy Couture).

I have respect for the sport of MMA. I've seen several events in person and follow it on tv and the internet to some degree, but fans like you who come on boxing message boards and start making posts like yours are part of the reason why some boxing fans aren't more receptive to the sport.

you do realize i've been a boxing fan much longer than an MMA fan and am currently battling the sherdog retards who claim any MMA fighter could beat any elite boxer. ask anyone from boxingtime, boxingtalk, or even back at boxing.com.

shane mosely came into gracie barra and was getting submitted by white belts, and in an interview said he would never fight a jiu-jitsu guy cuz theyd just break his arm. winky wright who also has trained with some jiu-jitsu players is always quick to say he is a boxer and not a fighter. or how bout vitali klitschko. he said in a kickboxing or MMA fight he would get killed by mirko cro cop after one training session with him.

even mike tyson on howard stern was quick to point out he had wrestled with tito ortiz and would get brutalized in the octagon by him.

noone is saying yousuke or melton are good boxers, but bowen is a better boxer than jennum is a ninjitsu fighter and he lost despite having a huge strength and weight disadvantage.

i was on the boxing bandwagon even harder than illuminati until i started training and competing in jiu-jitsu.

"fans like you" im a fan of common sense, and for someone to say Tommy Morrison would defeat Chuck Liddell in mixed martial arts is an idiot.

"what passes as footwork"...you would think youd realize being quite the MMA expert appparently you cant use boxing footwork efficiently in a real fight situation against someone throwing leg kicks and when the fight doesnt stop once you enter the clinch.

calling rampage and liddell amateur boxers shows how much respect you really have for the sport (zero) because both guys are top caliber athletes, and with zero boxing skills would STILL be able to defeat 95% of professional boxers in the octagon.

its funny because i box and do jiu jitsu and whenever im boxing, im telling the scrubs there who say UFC sucks how theyd get their ass kicked...and when im doing jiu-jitsu im always defending boxing against the "high school wrestlers could beat up bernard hopkins"

boxing fans are not receptive to the sport the same way MMA fans are not receptive to boxing. they are ignorant and have no experience or appreciation for two sports that for some reason are always battling for supremacy, instead of co-existing.

[Hanzy]

What about Sanche vs. Gomez, Duran vs. De Jesus, etc,etc....of course whites are going to be the majority of fans on all/any sports..basketball, football the fans would be 60-70% white..they are the majority of the population in the country. The problem with the ufc fans at least the recent ones is that they are not a fan of mma, but fans of ufc and ufc fightrs like Liddell, Couture, Hughes, Ortiz, let see how the react to the NON american fighters coming over from Pride...that will surely dominate all the establish UFC champions.

Agreed, I really want to see the landscape for the UFC a year from now. How will the new UFC fanatics react now that their brash american fighters like Ortiz and Liddell have taken a backseat? Now there's an influx of foreign fighters whom none of these new UFC fans have heard of. It all began on that dreadful night when non-english speaking Anderson Silva murdered the Dana White's boy Rich Franklin. Now Chuck has just gotten butchered by Rampage Jackson. What's even funnier is that now we're going to have Jackson vs Henderson, 2 Pride fighters competing in a UFC title fight inside the UFC cage. I don't think that's going to interest the young UFC fanatics as much as Ortiz vs Liddell did.:lol: Seeing that they don't even know who Henderson is. Well they better accept it, because Pride is taking over!:clap:
You're right about the UFC fans. They're not MMA fans, they're strictly UFC fans and the homegrown talent is getting taken down one by one!:cool:
I wonder if the UFC fans will maintain their interest with the foreign fighters invading the octagon.

[Free Ike]

you do realize i've been a boxing fan much longer than an MMA fan and am currently battling the sherdog retards who claim any MMA fighter could beat any elite boxer. ask anyone from boxingtime, boxingtalk, or even back at boxing.com.

shane mosely came into gracie barra and was getting submitted by white belts, and in an interview said he would never fight a jiu-jitsu guy cuz theyd just break his arm. winky wright who also has trained with some jiu-jitsu players is always quick to say he is a boxer and not a fighter. or how bout vitali klitschko. he said in a kickboxing or MMA fight he would get killed by mirko cro cop after one training session with him.

even mike tyson on howard stern was quick to point out he had wrestled with tito ortiz and would get brutalized in the octagon by him.

noone is saying yousuke or melton are good boxers, but bowen is a better boxer than jennum is a ninjitsu fighter and he lost despite having a huge strength and weight disadvantage.

i was on the boxing bandwagon even harder than illuminati until i started training and competing in jiu-jitsu.

"fans like you" im a fan of common sense, and for someone to say Tommy Morrison would defeat Chuck Liddell in mixed martial arts is an idiot.

"what passes as footwork"...you would think youd realize being quite the MMA expert appparently you cant use boxing footwork efficiently in a real fight situation against someone throwing leg kicks and when the fight doesnt stop once you enter the clinch.

calling rampage and liddell amateur boxers shows how much respect you really have for the sport (zero) because both guys are top caliber athletes, and with zero boxing skills would STILL be able to defeat 95% of professional boxers in the octagon.

its funny because i box and do jiu jitsu and whenever im boxing, im telling the scrubs there who say UFC sucks how theyd get their ass kicked...and when im doing jiu-jitsu im always defending boxing against the "high school wrestlers could beat up bernard hopkins"

boxing fans are not receptive to the sport the same way MMA fans are not receptive to boxing. they are ignorant and have no experience or appreciation for two sports that for some reason are always battling for supremacy, instead of co-existing.
:bears: :bears:

This is one of the lamest divisions in message board history. Does Lennox Lewis suck because he has no ground game? No, he is a boxer. Does Chuck Lidell suck because he'd get ktfo by Tarver in a boxing match, no. Two different sports. It is like saying Lawrence Taylor sucks because he is a garbage boxer(which he is, I have seen him box). Ok, he was a great football player and luckly he made his living in the NFL.

[Hanzy]

you do realize i've been a boxing fan much longer than an MMA fan and am currently battling the sherdog retards who claim any MMA fighter could beat any elite boxer. ask anyone from boxingtime, boxingtalk, or even back at boxing.com.

shane mosely came into gracie barra and was getting submitted by white belts, and in an interview said he would never fight a jiu-jitsu guy cuz theyd just break his arm. winky wright who also has trained with some jiu-jitsu players is always quick to say he is a boxer and not a fighter. or how bout vitali klitschko. he said in a kickboxing or MMA fight he would get killed by mirko cro cop after one training session with him.

even mike tyson on howard stern was quick to point out he had wrestled with tito ortiz and would get brutalized in the octagon by him.

noone is saying yousuke or melton are good boxers, but bowen is a better boxer than jennum is a ninjitsu fighter and he lost despite having a huge strength and weight disadvantage.

i was on the boxing bandwagon even harder than illuminati until i started training and competing in jiu-jitsu.

"fans like you" im a fan of common sense, and for someone to say Tommy Morrison would defeat Chuck Liddell in mixed martial arts is an idiot.

"what passes as footwork"...you would think youd realize being quite the MMA expert appparently you cant use boxing footwork efficiently in a real fight situation against someone throwing leg kicks and when the fight doesnt stop once you enter the clinch.

calling rampage and liddell amateur boxers shows how much respect you really have for the sport (zero) because both guys are top caliber athletes, and with zero boxing skills would STILL be able to defeat 95% of professional boxers in the octagon.

its funny because i box and do jiu jitsu and whenever im boxing, im telling the scrubs there who say UFC sucks how theyd get their ass kicked...and when im doing jiu-jitsu im always defending boxing against the "high school wrestlers could beat up bernard hopkins"

boxing fans are not receptive to the sport the same way MMA fans are not receptive to boxing. they are ignorant and have no experience or appreciation for two sports that for some reason are always battling for supremacy, instead of co-existing.

:clap: That's a good post. Although I don't ever recall hearing Tyson or Vitali ever talk about getting killed by the likes of CroCop or Ortiz.

[winner by choke]

Chuck's garbage!:lol:Anybody who knew anything about MMA knew that Chuck was getting victories over 'wrestlers' with no idea how to throw hands. Rampage is just too good for him in every way. Rampage actually has a clue how to throw and how to slip. Chuck can't deal with somebody who shows a little upper body movement. That's the difference between KOing wrestlers compared to strikers. Chuck is a sorry-ass striker, dude has so many flaws in his game, it's laughable.

C'mon Hanz, I know you don't know that much about MMA but come on dude.

Are you seriously arguing Rampage is a better striker than Alistair Overeem or Vitor Belfort??

Chuck has beaten Pele Landi-Jons who is a lethal striker. Kevin Randleman who knocked out a kickboxing world champion. Vitor Belfort who has great hands and knees.

He's also beaten world class fighters such as Renato "Babalu" Sobral (only man who really has beaten Mauricio Rua), Randy Couture, Jeremy Horn, Tito Ortiz, and Guy Metzger (former kickboxing champion as well) by knockout.

Not to mention decision wins over Murilo Bustamante (who nearly beat a prime Rampage) and Jeff Monson.

Chuck has many flaws in his game. But all of those fighters I just listed are definitely elite and Chuck beat them all...without controversy. His "flaws" are also strong points, and he has exploited them to his advantage for years against a who-is-who of the MMA elite.

In other posts you definitely seemed to know some shit about MMA...what's the deal? :dunno:

[Hanzy]

C'mon Hanz, I know you don't know that much about MMA but come on dude.

Are you seriously arguing Rampage is a better striker than Alistair Overeem or Vitor Belfort??

Chuck has beaten Pele Landi-Jons who is a lethal striker. Kevin Randleman who knocked out a kickboxing world champion. Vitor Belfort who has great hands and knees.

He's also beaten world class fighters such as Renato "Babalu" Sobral (only man who really has beaten Mauricio Rua), Randy Couture, Jeremy Horn, Tito Ortiz, and Guy Metzger (former kickboxing champion as well) by knockout.

Not to mention decision wins over Murilo Bustamante (who nearly beat a prime Rampage) and Jeff Monson.

Chuck has many flaws in his game. But all of those fighters I just listed are definitely elite and Chuck beat them all...without controversy. His "flaws" are also strong points, and he has exploited them to his advantage for years against a who-is-who of the MMA elite.

In other posts you definitely seemed to know some shit about MMA...what's the deal? :dunno:

I don't care about Chuck Liddell or his style of fighting. And I'm not the only one saying it. Even the most hardcore followers of MMA on the Dogpound or MMAfighting or MMAnews will tell you the same. Chuck's success lately has been the result of beating on 'pretend strikers'. I don't have a problem with Chuck winning fights but that style of his just looked too awkward for me to really take him seriously. I always felt, as did millions of others, that he'd be put to the test by somebody who had some striking skills. Remember, it was the great Fedor Emelianenko who said recently that in order to have the best chances of competing in MMA, wrestling and boxing would be the 2 ideal styles. One would not be a complete fighter without knowledge of both styles.
It so happens, Jackson can do both alot better than Chuck plus he's physically stronger, faster and more fluid.

[ILLUMINATI]

Agreed, I really want to see the landscape for the UFC a year from now. How will the new UFC fanatics react now that their brash american fighters like Ortiz and Liddell have taken a backseat? Now there's an influx of foreign fighters whom none of these new UFC fans have heard of. It all began on that dreadful night when non-english speaking Anderson Silva murdered the Dana White's boy Rich Franklin. Now Chuck has just gotten butchered by Rampage Jackson. What's even funnier is that now we're going to have Jackson vs Henderson, 2 Pride fighters competing in a UFC title fight inside the UFC cage. I don't think that's going to interest the young UFC fanatics as much as Ortiz vs Liddell did.:lol: Seeing that they don't even know who Henderson is. Well they better accept it, because Pride is taking over!:clap:
You're right about the UFC fans. They're not MMA fans, they're strictly UFC fans and the homegrown talent is getting taken down one by one!:cool:
I wonder if the UFC fans will maintain their interest with the foreign fighters invading the octagon.

Hardcore fans of MMA...love what will be the UFC in a few months/years..the best from around the world all under one company. The fanbase UFC has acquired the last 2-3 years will probably be piss cause few of the top guys are american. thats all i'm saying...now if they stay as fans of the sport..then UFC will keep growing...if not then it will come back down to earth..still sell a ton of ppv..but not as much as they been doing in the last year or 2...

[winner by choke]

I don't care about Chuck Liddell or his style of fighting. And I'm not the only one saying it. Even the most hardcore followers of MMA on the Dogpound or MMAfighting or MMAnews will tell you the same. Chuck's success lately has been the result of beating on 'pretend strikers'. I don't have a problem with Chuck winning fights but that style of his just looked too awkward for me to really take him seriously. I always felt, as did millions of others, that he'd be put to the test by somebody who had some striking skills. Remember, it was the great Fedor Emelianenko who said recently that in order to have the best chances of competing in MMA, wrestling and boxing would be the 2 ideal styles. One would not be a complete fighter without knowledge of both styles.
It so happens, Jackson can do both alot better than Chuck plus he's physically stronger, faster and more fluid.

The most hardcore MMA fans are the same ones who would tell you that me being a jiu-jitsu player would be able to beat the world champion of boxing in my weight class.

He has fought elite strikers, and won...by knockout.

And Fedor said boxing and ground fighting..which is definitely different then just wrestling.

Rampage does both better than Wanderlei Silva and was aborted by him twice. I agree Chuck's recent run was a bunch of KO victories of guys with sub-par stand-up...but that doesnt mean his whole career he has been fighting guys with bad stand-up, because that is clearly not the case.

To suggest that Liddell was in some way exposed, is like suggesting Roy Jones was "exposed" against Antonio Tarver. Proven great fighter, one guy just matches up very well with him.

[Hanzy]

Hardcore fans of MMA...love what will be the UFC in a few months/years..the best from around the world all under one company. The fanbase UFC has acquired the last 2-3 years will probably be piss cause few of the top guys are american. thats all i'm saying...now if they stay as fans of the sport..then UFC will keep growing...if not then it will come back down to earth..still sell a ton of ppv..but not as much as they been doing in the last year or 2...

I fit into the UFC's target demographic, age-wise. I've been following martial arts before the UFC was even born, all the way up to the old days of basic shoot wrestling with Gary Albright which I used to rip from ppv on an old descrambler.
I just wonder if these new fans are going to embrace Pride fighters with open arms. It's pretty sad for a fan who is led to believe that Chuck Liddell is the most ruthless and dangerous man walking the earth, and then all of a sudden some black guy nobody's ever heard of just walks in there and kills that ass in less than 2 minutes.:lol: I'm just trying to think from the perspective of the TUF fan. They've never heard of fighters like Fedor, Noguira, Henderson, Shogun, etc.

[Hanzy]

The most hardcore MMA fans are the same ones who would tell you that me being a jiu-jitsu player would be able to beat the world champion of boxing in my weight class.

He has fought elite strikers, and won...by knockout.

And Fedor said boxing and ground fighting..which is definitely different then just wrestling.

Rampage does both better than Wanderlei Silva and was aborted by him twice. I agree Chuck's recent run was a bunch of KO victories of guys with sub-par stand-up...but that doesnt mean his whole career he has been fighting guys with bad stand-up, because that is clearly not the case.

To suggest that Liddell was in some way exposed, is like suggesting Roy Jones was "exposed" against Antonio Tarver. Proven great fighter, one guy just matches up very well with him.

No, I'm pretty sure Fedor said 'boxing and wrestling'. I'll have to go find the quote. As for Chuck, he's alright but I never bought into Dana White's attempts at brainwashing me into believing he was all that. I just never bought into the mystique. Not saying he's not a good fighter, he's done very well for himself and will get a spot in the UFC's Hall of Fame.
The only time I ever cheered for Liddell was against Ortiz. I cheer for everybody to kill Ortiz. Rashad Evans hopefully takes him out.

[Free Ike]

I fit into the UFC's target demographic, age-wise. I've been following martial arts before the UFC was even born, all the way up to the old days of basic shoot wrestling with Gary Albright which I used to rip from ppv on an old descrambler.
I just wonder if these new fans are going to embrace Pride fighters with open arms. It's pretty sad for a fan who is led to believe that Chuck Liddell is the most ruthless and dangerous man walking the earth, and then all of a sudden some black guy nobody's ever heard of just walks in there and kills that ass in less than 2 minutes.:lol: I'm just trying to think from the perspective of the TUF fan. They've never heard of fighters like Fedor, Noguira, Henderson, Shogun, etc.
WTF are you talking about? Everyone knew who Rampage was and most people who know anything knew he'd fuck Chuck up. AGAIN. It's a style's thing. Shogun Rua could bend Jackson over tomorrow and make him his bitch AGAIN.

[ILLUMINATI]

WTF are you talking about? Everyone knew who Rampage was and most people who know anything knew he'd fuck Chuck up. AGAIN.

Thats the problem most of the newer UFC fans you know the ones buying up the ppv's..don't know shit about MMA. They just follow UFC an their Tito Ortiz, Liddell, Couture, etc..and actually believe that Liddell was the best FIGHTER IN THE WORLD. Thats why the next few months/years will be interesting for the UFC, see how those groupy fans that jsut got onboard in the last 2 years will react to see non american, non english speaking fighters dominating.

[winner by choke]

No, I'm pretty sure Fedor said 'boxing and wrestling'. I'll have to go find the quote. As for Chuck, he's alright but I never bought into Dana White's attempts at brainwashing me into believing he was all that. I just never bought into the mystique. Not saying he's not a good fighter, he's done very well for himself and will get a spot in the UFC's Hall of Fame.
The only time I ever cheered for Liddell was against Ortiz. I cheer for everybody to kill Ortiz. Rashad Evans hopefully takes him out.

Chuck showed big succeptablitily (if that is even a word) to basic boxing in the first fight with Randy Couture.

Chuck is one of the best fighters ever in this young sport, and his resume proves that. I however think someone like Dan Henderson, Mauricio Rua, or maybe even Wanderlei Silva (depending on how past it he is) would beat him. Possibly Sokoudjou and Little Noguiera as well.

I do however think he would knock out Ricardo Arona, who gave Emelianenko Fedor a run for his money, and defeated Wandy (twice IMO) and Alistair Overeem.

Anyone who thought Chuck was without a doubt the best 205 LBSer alive was an idiot anyways.

[ArturoGatti]

Chuck showed big succeptablitily (if that is even a word) to basic boxing in the first fight with Randy Couture.

Chuck is one of the best fighters ever in this young sport, and his resume proves that. I however think someone like Dan Henderson, Mauricio Rua, or maybe even Wanderlei Silva (depending on how past it he is) would beat him. Possibly Sokoudjou and Little Noguiera as well.

I do however think he would knock out Ricardo Arona, who gave Emelianenko Fedor a run for his money, and defeated Wandy (twice IMO) and Alistair Overeem.

Anyone who thought Chuck was without a doubt the best 205 LBSer alive was an idiot anyways.:laughing:

[Free Ike]

Thats the problem most of the newer UFC fans you know the ones buying up the ppv's..don't know shit about MMA. They just follow UFC an their Tito Ortiz, Liddell, Couture, etc..and actually believe that Liddell was the best FIGHTER IN THE WORLD. Thats why the next few months/years will be interesting for the UFC, see how those groupy fans that jsut got onboard in the last 2 years will react to see non american, non english speaking fighters dominating.
i HATE TO SHIT IN YOUR CHEERIOUS but Rampage Jackson is an American, and English speaking. In fact, the guy has a great personality.

[winner by choke]

WTF are you talking about? Everyone knew who Rampage was and most people who know anything knew he'd fuck Chuck up. AGAIN. It's a style's thing. Shogun Rua could bend Jackson over tomorrow and make him his bitch AGAIN.

agREED

Shogun is soo good at pretty much everything. That kneebar on Kevin Randleman looked extremely painful. Not to mention devestating beatings of Rampage, Overeem and Arona.

Dude is a straight up killer. Him and his brother had a seminar here is SD,but unfortunately I was working at it was like 150 dollars.

[winner by choke]

:laughing:

hahahah i looked at it and was just like that cant be right.

[boxingnotboxers]

WTF are you talking about? Everyone knew who Rampage was and most people who know anything knew he'd fuck Chuck up. AGAIN. It's a style's thing. Shogun Rua could bend Jackson over tomorrow and make him his bitch AGAIN.

True, I wonder if anyone actually SAW the first fight. It wasn't a single punch KO; he worked him over in EVERY WAY POSSIBLE. I thought it was going to be more of the same but Liddell obviously thought ahead and wanted to take his chances on the outside. After all, it's not like Jackson is invincible and he caught him coming in he could have had a victory istead. It didn't work, but it showed that he wanted to give it a shot (no pun intended).

[ILLUMINATI]

i HATE TO SHIT IN YOUR CHEERIOUS but Rampage Jackson is an American, and English speaking. In fact, the guy has a great personality.

Agree...but will the ufc fan like him? But most Pride imports will be non american...:popcorn:..and the recent ufc fans are not fans off mma but of Ufc and liddell, tito,etc...

[winner by choke]

True, I wonder if anyone actually SAW the first fight. It wasn't a single punch KO; he worked him over in EVERY WAY POSSIBLE. I thought it was going to be more of the same but Liddell obviously thought ahead and wanted to take his chances on the outside. After all, it's not like Jackson is invincible and he caught him coming in he could have had a victory istead. It didn't work, but it showed that he wanted to give it a shot (no pun intended).

Too be fair they fought the first fight right after Chuck's war with Alistair Overeem. And Chuck pulled his hamstring in that fight.

But it's true...I thought Rampage was shot and over with...guess not.

[boxingnotboxers]

Agree...but will the ufc fan like him? But most Pride imports will be non american...:popcorn:..and the recent ufc fans are not fans off mma but of Ufc and liddell, tito,etc...
Dude, did you hear/see his interviews? I'd be amazed if UFC fans didn't eat that stuff up. From that perspective the man is absoultely a GOLDMINE for UFC. He may not have lasting power however, b/c he's probably on the downswing of his career.

[ILLUMINATI]

Dude, did you hear/see his interviews? I'd be amazed if UFC fans didn't eat that stuff up. From that perspective the man is absoultely a GOLDMINE for UFC. He may not have lasting power however, b/c he's probably on the downswing of his career.

I have heard his interviews the guy is great...if the UFC is smart they keep matching him against other recognize longstanding ufc fighters.

[Rubio MHS]

PPV results speak for themselves. You all wouldn't be crying so much if you didn't feel threatened. Its a fact.:bears:

[Mitchell Kane]

you do realize i've been a boxing fan much longer than an MMA fan and am currently battling the sherdog retards who claim any MMA fighter could beat any elite boxer. ask anyone from boxingtime, boxingtalk, or even back at boxing.com.

shane mosely came into gracie barra and was getting submitted by white belts, and in an interview said he would never fight a jiu-jitsu guy cuz theyd just break his arm. winky wright who also has trained with some jiu-jitsu players is always quick to say he is a boxer and not a fighter. or how bout vitali klitschko. he said in a kickboxing or MMA fight he would get killed by mirko cro cop after one training session with him.

even mike tyson on howard stern was quick to point out he had wrestled with tito ortiz and would get brutalized in the octagon by him.

noone is saying yousuke or melton are good boxers, but bowen is a better boxer than jennum is a ninjitsu fighter and he lost despite having a huge strength and weight disadvantage.

i was on the boxing bandwagon even harder than illuminati until i started training and competing in jiu-jitsu.

"fans like you" im a fan of common sense, and for someone to say Tommy Morrison would defeat Chuck Liddell in mixed martial arts is an idiot.

"what passes as footwork"...you would think youd realize being quite the MMA expert appparently you cant use boxing footwork efficiently in a real fight situation against someone throwing leg kicks and when the fight doesnt stop once you enter the clinch.

calling rampage and liddell amateur boxers shows how much respect you really have for the sport (zero) because both guys are top caliber athletes, and with zero boxing skills would STILL be able to defeat 95% of professional boxers in the octagon.

its funny because i box and do jiu jitsu and whenever im boxing, im telling the scrubs there who say UFC sucks how theyd get their ass kicked...and when im doing jiu-jitsu im always defending boxing against the "high school wrestlers could beat up bernard hopkins"

boxing fans are not receptive to the sport the same way MMA fans are not receptive to boxing. they are ignorant and have no experience or appreciation for two sports that for some reason are always battling for supremacy, instead of co-existing.

You called Nishjima a champ, but now say noones saying they're good boxers.

He accomplished very little in boxing, yet you call him a champ and mention his name like it was something of major significance that he doesn't have a good record in MMA.

I wasn't calling Liddell or Jackson amateur boxers. Read the line again.

As for the comments of boxers, verified or not, it has to do with training. They are trained in boxing, not other disciplines, so they obviously couldn't just go into a gym and compete under that format. It would obviously take an athlete a long time to learn how to compete under MMA rules and be successful for any significant period of time.

[Haymaker]

And even at that, boxing fans knew what to expect up front. Maybe true-blue UFC fans expected a 2 minute fight, but certainly not the 100's or so that personally demanded I order this fight last night (which I didn't, but watched online for free moments later).

That's why I never went along with the tagline that it was our 'duty' as boxing fans to ensure that everyone ordered Floyd-Oscar. I didn't want to recommend a fight that I thought should sell itself anyway.

All that said, boxing isn't big around this way; MMA (and UFC in particular) is, though to be expected in NASCAR country. There are more and more shows popping up in Kentucky and Mississippi (Tennessee still classifies it as toughman, which is banned in the state).

The Showtime MMA show in Mississippi earlier in the year drew 7,500 fans; the ShoBox super middleweight finals held in the same arena a month prior had an announced paid attendance of 82 :lol: (about 400 people in the arena in total, including the Showtime staff and Gary Shaw Productions). So there definitely is a market for the sport that boxing clearly isn't capturing. But the crowd it attracts is along the lines of the suggestions within this thread.

Anyway, all that said, was curious to see the PPV turnout for this one. In and around Nashville, I'd say that 1 out of 10 had a Floyd-Oscar poster in the front window. No fewer than 8 out of 10 had a poster up for this fight, and almost every bar was showing the fight.

Right, but you can't compare the names. The MMA event had Frank Shamrock and Renzo Gracie. That's the equivalent in boxing to a Joel Casamayor and Jose Luis Castillo, just to throw out some names. The super middleweight tourney was a disaster from day one.

[slystaff]

Boxing will always be superior to UFC because it's more of a science.

TRUE...boxing can be unpredictable as well...but for the most part, you know that a Pernell Whitaker isn't going to KO a Marvin hagler...You know that Benn Barkley MUST end in a KO...you know enough to properly analyze a fight and have a good discussion.

UFC is just RANDOM. Know wasy of predicting a fight at all. One kick and it can be all over (because a kick from ANYONE is virtually UNTAKABLE...by anyone). Every fighter is CHINNY, relatively speaking, because they are not trained to take punches the way boxers are and so one big punch from anyone can end a fight there and then. Anyone can be a victim of the "ground and pound"...because anyone can be put down at any given moment and anyone once down...finds themselves in a very precarious predicament.

UFC is exciting but it is not as scientific as boxing is...the best UFC fight would never have the action and drama of a Hagler hearns, Corrales-Castillo, Eubank Watson....by nature of the dynamics of the craft.

It is too random, too unpredictable and therefore an inferior sport.

[Rubio MHS]

Boxing will always be superior to UFC because it's more of a science.Does that mean that curling is superior to boxing?

[valdosta]

MMA's advantages over boxing are not single fights. MMA's advantages are marketing,promoting, they put together better cards from top to bottom and show more fights.

[Free Ike]

MMA's advantages over boxing are not single fights. MMA's advantages are marketing,promoting, they put together better cards from top to bottom and show more fights.
Simon, ese!!

[Bob N Weave]

Boxing will always be superior to UFC because it's more of a science.

TRUE...boxing can be unpredictable as well...but for the most part, you know that a Pernell Whitaker isn't going to KO a Marvin hagler...You know that Benn Barkley MUST end in a KO...you know enough to properly analyze a fight and have a good discussion.

UFC is just RANDOM. Know wasy of predicting a fight at all. One kick and it can be all over (because a kick from ANYONE is virtually UNTAKABLE...by anyone). Every fighter is CHINNY, relatively speaking, because they are not trained to take punches the way boxers are and so one big punch from anyone can end a fight there and then. Anyone can be a victim of the "ground and pound"...because anyone can be put down at any given moment and anyone once down...finds themselves in a very precarious predicament.

UFC is exciting but it is not as scientific as boxing is...the best UFC fight would never have the action and drama of a Hagler hearns, Corrales-Castillo, Eubank Watson....by nature of the dynamics of the craft.

It is too random, too unpredictable and therefore an inferior sport.

Amen!:bears:

[Bob N Weave]

Does that mean that curling is superior to boxing?

:notallthere:

[ILLUMINATI]

Right, but you can't compare the names. The MMA event had Frank Shamrock and Renzo Gracie. That's the equivalent in boxing to a Joel Casamayor and Jose Luis Castillo, just to throw out some names. The super middleweight tourney was a disaster from day one.

It's also about location ufc put on show where they know people will come to watch...boxing likes to do shit backwards sometimes they pick the worst locations sometimes. Judah vs. Cotto perfect location...Pavlik vs. Taylor should either Ohio...Castillo vs. Hatton should not be taking place in LAS VEGAS...imo....

[Rubio MHS]

It's also about location ufc put on show where they know people will come to watch...boxing likes to do shit backwards sometimes they pick the worst locations sometimes. Judah vs. Cotto perfect location...Pavlik vs. Taylor should either Ohio...Castillo vs. Hatton should not be taking place in LAS VEGAS...imo....You simply don't understand the sport. Ohio simply isn't a good place to make money. Castillo is HUGELY popular in Las Vegas, and there's no place outside of England where that fight could make more money.

[valdosta]

You simply don't understand the sport. Ohio simply isn't a good place to make money. Castillo is HUGELY popular in Las Vegas, and there's no place outside of England where that fight could make more money.

Castillo isn't hugely popular anywhere. Illuminatti is correct that fight shouldn't be in Vegas. it should be in Britain.

[Hanzy]

WTF are you talking about? Everyone knew who Rampage was and most people who know anything knew he'd fuck Chuck up. AGAIN. It's a style's thing. Shogun Rua could bend Jackson over tomorrow and make him his bitch AGAIN.

That's just the point I'm trying to make. Most people know NOTHING. They only know what the UFC wanted them to know. They weren't exposed to the fights of Rampage Jackson in Pride. These TUF fans were clueless about Jackson just like they're clueless about Pride and fighters like Shogun, Henderson, and Fedor to name a few.

[Rubio MHS]

Castillo isn't hugely popular anywhere. Illuminatti is correct that fight shouldn't be in Vegas. it should be in Britain.In his first fight with Mayweather, 9/10 of the crowd was there to see him. He's been a consistent draw in Las Vegas. "Hugely popular," is a relative term. He's more popular in Vegas than in Mexico, and there aren't more than 50 or so fighters more popular than he is, even though he's on a downstretch.

Bear in mind, internet morons rarely constitute the general consensus of the boxing world. Most boxing fans buy fights, and enjoy them. Internet fans don't, and whine about them.

[Bob N Weave]

In his first fight with Mayweather, 9/10 of the crowd was there to see him.

Where is your evidence to substantiate this?

[valdosta]

In his first fight with Mayweather, 9/10 of the crowd was there to see him. He's been a consistent draw in Las Vegas. "Hugely popular," is a relative term. He's more popular in Vegas than in Mexico, and there aren't more than 50 or so fighters more popular than he is, even though he's on a downstretch.

Bear in mind, internet morons rarely constitute the general consensus of the boxing world. Most boxing fans buy fights, and enjoy them. Internet fans don't, and whine about them.

His rematch with Corrales absolutely bombed. Castillo is not a draw at all.

[valdosta]

Where is your evidence to substantiate this?

Sounds better to make stuff up sometimes.

[Bob N Weave]

Sounds better to make stuff up sometimes.

Or to pull it off of Wikpedia. :dunno:

[Rubio MHS]

Where is your evidence to substantiate this?I was there, listening to all of them.

[Bob N Weave]

I was there, listening to all of them.

Yeah, that's legitimate. :laughing:

[Hanzy]

Where is your evidence to substantiate this?

His evidence is me. I told him that.:cool:

[Bob N Weave]

His evidence is me. I told him that.:cool:

ohh so he does lie then. :shit:

[Rubio MHS]

His evidence is me. I told him that.:cool:I think this is the first time I've read one of your posts that wasn't about MMA. Do you actually watch boxing?

[winner by choke]

Boxing will always be superior to UFC because it's more of a science.

TRUE...boxing can be unpredictable as well...but for the most part, you know that a Pernell Whitaker isn't going to KO a Marvin hagler...You know that Benn Barkley MUST end in a KO...you know enough to properly analyze a fight and have a good discussion.

UFC is just RANDOM. Know wasy of predicting a fight at all. One kick and it can be all over (because a kick from ANYONE is virtually UNTAKABLE...by anyone). Every fighter is CHINNY, relatively speaking, because they are not trained to take punches the way boxers are and so one big punch from anyone can end a fight there and then. Anyone can be a victim of the "ground and pound"...because anyone can be put down at any given moment and anyone once down...finds themselves in a very precarious predicament.

UFC is exciting but it is not as scientific as boxing is...the best UFC fight would never have the action and drama of a Hagler hearns, Corrales-Castillo, Eubank Watson....by nature of the dynamics of the craft.

It is too random, too unpredictable and therefore an inferior sport.

you think it is random because you have a very small amount of knowledge when it comes to things like jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, and wrestling.

you can analyze MMA even more so then boxing, but naturally the outcomes will be of a greater span because instead of just hands, you can use hands, feet, elbows, knees and wrestling.

how does that make it an inferior sport?

on any given day any NFL team or NBA team can lose to any other,how is this any different.

[Hanzy]

I think this is the first time I've read one of your posts that wasn't about MMA. Do you actually watch boxing?

What is boxing?

[Hanzy]

you think it is random because you have a very small amount of knowledge when it comes to things like jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, and wrestling.

you can analyze MMA even more so then boxing, but naturally the outcomes will be of a greater span because instead of just hands, you can use hands, feet, elbows, knees and wrestling.

how does that make it an inferior sport?

on any given day any NFL team or NBA team can lose to any other,how is this any different.

True.

[boxingnotboxers]

you think it is random because you have a very small amount of knowledge when it comes to things like jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, and wrestling.

you can analyze MMA even more so then boxing, but naturally the outcomes will be of a greater span because instead of just hands, you can use hands, feet, elbows, knees and wrestling.

how does that make it an inferior sport?

on any given day any NFL team or NBA team can lose to any other,how is this any different.

In fact, part of the reason UFC has improved is because it was able to shed it's birth: a showcase for Royce Gracie and his various submissions. His fights were predictable on his end, because you knew the fight wasn't goinng to end on a Grace KO. How is that better?

Once the competition went up, so did the random nature of the fights. I don't see improved competition as a bad thing, and based on the egregious opponent cherrypicking in boxing, maybe they could learn a lesson or two from MMA.

[Rubio MHS]

In fact, part of the reason UFC has improved is because it was able to shed it's birth: a showcase for Royce Gracie and his various submissions. His fights were predictable on his end, because you knew the fight wasn't goinng to end on a Grace KO. How is that better?

Once the competition went up, so did the random nature of the fights. I don't see improved competition as a bad thing, and based on the egregious opponent cherrypicking in boxing, maybe they could learn a lesson or two from MMA.Patrick Smith didn't "know" that. Now he does.

[MAXWELL]

C'mon Hanz, I know you don't know that much about MMA but come on dude.

Are you seriously arguing Rampage is a better striker than Alistair Overeem or Vitor Belfort??

Chuck has beaten Pele Landi-Jons who is a lethal striker. Kevin Randleman who knocked out a kickboxing world champion. Vitor Belfort who has great hands and knees.

He's also beaten world class fighters such as Renato "Babalu" Sobral (only man who really has beaten Mauricio Rua), Randy Couture, Jeremy Horn, Tito Ortiz, and Guy Metzger (former kickboxing champion as well) by knockout.

Not to mention decision wins over Murilo Bustamante (who nearly beat a prime Rampage) and Jeff Monson.

Chuck has many flaws in his game. But all of those fighters I just listed are definitely elite and Chuck beat them all...without controversy. His "flaws" are also strong points, and he has exploited them to his advantage for years against a who-is-who of the MMA elite.

In other posts you definitely seemed to know some shit about MMA...what's the deal? :dunno:

I think Rampage is a better striker than belfort. chucks fight w/ bustamante is closed, you can even argue that murillo won that fight by utilizing his jab more .

Btw are u referring to crocop when u mentioned randleman koing a kick boxing champ?

[winner by choke]

yes

[Rubio MHS]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by winner by choke
C'mon Hanz, I know you don't know that much about MMA but come on dude.

Are you seriously arguing Rampage is a better striker than Alistair Overeem or Vitor Belfort??

Chuck has beaten Pele Landi-Jons who is a lethal striker. Kevin Randleman who knocked out a kickboxing world champion. Vitor Belfort who has great hands and knees.

He's also beaten world class fighters such as Renato "Babalu" Sobral (only man who really has beaten Mauricio Rua), Randy Couture, Jeremy Horn, Tito Ortiz, and Guy Metzger (former kickboxing champion as well) by knockout.

Not to mention decision wins over Murilo Bustamante (who nearly beat a prime Rampage) and Jeff Monson.

Chuck has many flaws in his game. But all of those fighters I just listed are definitely elite and Chuck beat them all...without controversy. His "flaws" are also strong points, and he has exploited them to his advantage for years against a who-is-who of the MMA elite.

In other posts you definitely seemed to know some shit about MMA...what's the deal? :dunno:


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Just because Randleman faked the takedown and punched CroCop in the jaw doesn't make him a top standup fighter. Look at how his "standup" did against Rampage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA31_MtSdEA

I'm starting to smell a little fight-finder ranging.

[REEDsART]

Clearly,UFC/MMA has a "Little Brother" Complex,as it Pertains to Boxing...


REED:cool:

[Rubio MHS]

Clearly,UFC/MMA has a "Little Brother" Complex,as it Pertains to Boxing...


REED:cool:Not MMA, just idiot internet fans. The idiot internet boxing fans have an "I'm not as cute as the new girl" complex.

[Tam Tam]

I think its quite obvious that the UFC has been playing off of the weaknesses that boxing in general has shown over the past 10 years or so. They've looked for a gap in the market and tried to exploit it. Thats common practice in the business world.

I also agree that the UFC has "little brother syndrome". But what needs to be taken notice of, is that the little brother is growing at an exponential rate and sooner or later, bigger brother is going to need to not just acknowledge his presence, but make some changes to stay on top.

MMA is here to stay and its up to boxing to either evolve, or prepare to take it in the pocket. Boxing will never die. I don't know if anyone actually thinks it will. But boxing in its current environment is under threat like never before.

[Baron]

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;">Originally Posted by winner by choke
C'mon Hanz, I know you don't know that much about MMA but come on dude.

Are you seriously arguing Rampage is a better striker than Alistair Overeem or Vitor Belfort??

Chuck has beaten Pele Landi-Jons who is a lethal striker. Kevin Randleman who knocked out a kickboxing world champion. Vitor Belfort who has great hands and knees.

He's also beaten world class fighters such as Renato "Babalu" Sobral (only man who really has beaten Mauricio Rua), Randy Couture, Jeremy Horn, Tito Ortiz, and Guy Metzger (former kickboxing champion as well) by knockout.

Not to mention decision wins over Murilo Bustamante (who nearly beat a prime Rampage) and Jeff Monson.

Chuck has many flaws in his game. But all of those fighters I just listed are definitely elite and Chuck beat them all...without controversy. His "flaws" are also strong points, and he has exploited them to his advantage for years against a who-is-who of the MMA elite.

In other posts you definitely seemed to know some shit about MMA...what's the deal? :dunno:


</td></tr></tbody></table>
Just because Randleman faked the takedown and punched CroCop in the jaw doesn't make him a top standup fighter. Look at how his "standup" did against Rampage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA31_MtSdEA

I'm starting to smell a little fight-finder ranging.I loved the ko. Brutal.

[Azazel]

You do realize they are fighting with 4 OZ gloves, right?

Liddell would brutalize Tommy Morrison.

He fought an accomplished golden gloves boxer in Noe Hernandez and took him down and lay and prayed his way to an easy decision. He also has knocked out Guy Metzger, Alistair Overeem and nearly knocked out Vitor Belfort. All of those guys are very solid strikers.

What about Nishijima who was a cruiserweight champ 0-3 in PRIDE??

Or Melton Bowen who was a solid fighter lost to a "ninja" cop, Steve Jennum.
Or Joe Louis, who said if Helio Gracie (135 LBS) got a hold of him he would be done for (even before MMA existed)

Two guys won last night simply utitlizing boxing techniques, but these guys have other skill sets as well and saying it is a skilless brawl is equivalent to saying boxing is a pillow fight.

hahaha maybe you should join the UFC 3OG, you'd brutalize all those guys im sure :rolleyes:

Morrison,in his prime, would have murdered Liddell and quite easilly IMO. Not surprising, from someone who belive a mediocrity like Ortiz would beat Tyson, that you think person believing this are idiot. And you have the nerve to blast sherdogers, you fit very well with the best of them.

[Azazel]

Are you going to bring up Jens Pulver and Chris Lytle, next?

I was actually at the fight Nishjima was flattened by McKenzie...not sure what made him a champion (despite what the WBF says). Calling him a champ may cut it on an MMA board, but not a boxing one.

The same with calling Melton Bowen a solid fighter. Most fans who have followed the sport long enough can probably still remember his 30 seconds against Shannon Briggs on TNF.

Last night amounted to a boxing match between two amateur boxers...one of whom (Liddell) looked completely intimated by the striking ability of the other. He was on his bike the entire fight, and threw most of the few punches he did throw like he didn't even want to land...and got caught after throwing an atrocious left to the body. (BTW, just thought I'd say it amazes me what passes for "footwork" in MMA - according to Randy Couture).

I have respect for the sport of MMA. I've seen several events in person and follow it on tv and the internet to some degree, but fans like you who come on boxing message boards and start making posts like yours are part of the reason why some boxing fans aren't more receptive to the sport.:bears: :bears: Exactly, I love MMA but it's idiots fans piss me off. They'll give no chance to a phenomenal athlete like PBF but completely disregard strikers with far less talent and skills ( Hunt for example ) who made the transition sucefully and quickly too. On Sherdog board you see shit like : " Sherk would PROBABLY lose to PBF in boxing but would rape him in the octogon ":rolleyes:

[bigdawg]

For some reason I see MMA/Pride and other fighters as boxer wonnabes that don't have the talent to box on at the highest level so they have to be able to mix in the street fighting aspect. Because what I see are poor boxers and then once they take it to the ground they become wrestlers. That's the way cats scrap on the street. The dude that is on the bottom usually ends up losing. All I know is that none of those dudes could ever lay hands with an elite fighter. Especially with those lil ass gloves. Just my opinion. I'll Holla 5000

[Bob N Weave]

For some reason I see MMA/Pride and other fighters as boxer wonnabes that don't have the talent to box on at the highest level so they have to be able to mix in the street fighting aspect. Because what I see are poor boxers and then once they take it to the ground they become wrestlers. That's the way cats scrap on the street. The dude that is on the bottom usually ends up losing. All I know is that none of those dudes could ever lay hands with an elite fighter. Especially with those lil ass gloves. Just my opinion. I'll Holla 5000

Most of the boxers that tried a crack in MMA got ruined.

And most of these fighters don't even originate from the sport of boxing. They come from wrestling and martial arts backgrounds. The reason why you see some poor boxers is that there are very few "boxers turned MMA" in the sport. Some good strikers have backgrounds in boxing.

[Tam Tam]

For some reason I see MMA/Pride and other fighters as boxer wonnabes that don't have the talent to box on at the highest level so they have to be able to mix in the street fighting aspect. Because what I see are poor boxers and then once they take it to the ground they become wrestlers. That's the way cats scrap on the street. The dude that is on the bottom usually ends up losing. All I know is that none of those dudes could ever lay hands with an elite fighter. Especially with those lil ass gloves. Just my opinion. I'll Holla 5000
Stick to hollaring.

[dsimon3387]

For some reason I see MMA/Pride and other fighters as boxer wonnabes that don't have the talent to box on at the highest level so they have to be able to mix in the street fighting aspect. Because what I see are poor boxers and then once they take it to the ground they become wrestlers. That's the way cats scrap on the street. The dude that is on the bottom usually ends up losing. All I know is that none of those dudes could ever lay hands with an elite fighter. Especially with those lil ass gloves. Just my opinion. I'll Holla 5000

dsimon writes:

Yeah you make a good point. I am not saying that it is "bad" or "good" fighting per se but untrained guys do fight in only two ranges boxing and wrestling. There is no sense of distance or footwork between these two gross ranges of fighting.

Funny thing is if you took a bare knuckles guy with good footwork from that era and put him in against an MMA guy I think he would have the grappling skills to deal effectively. To me a lot of MMA looks like Johnson era boxing with no footwork.

I know a lot of people will disagree so let me say this in closing this post. When Helio Gracie fought Kimura you can see how good footwork made it very hard for either guy to rush in and do anything to the other guy. Point being that good movement skills potentially neutralize a lot of stuff that happens in the interm between striking and wrestling.

[dsimon3387]

Stick to hollaring.

dsimon writes:

There is a rumor going round that you and Mex are twigs is this true? :lol:

[crold1]

LOL...I have the first Ring magazine where they published a lettrer to the editor before I ever got to do this for extra change. :)

[MassaCure]

WTF are you talking about? Everyone knew who Rampage was and most people who know anything knew he'd fuck Chuck up. AGAIN. It's a style's thing. Shogun Rua could bend Jackson over tomorrow and make him his bitch AGAIN.

ehhhhh i wouldnt go that far, alot of people who watch ufc dont even know what pride is, nor have they seen a pride fight, if you go to youtube and look at some of the comments on the first chuck and jackson fight they have no idea this fight even happen, or who the guy is, and they say shit like chuck will get him back he always does

alot of ufc fans are 2 years, or maybe 1 year fans, and all they know is chuck llidel, ufc did great promotions making this guy the face of the company, and he got his ass whipped

[MassaCure]

For some reason I see MMA/Pride and other fighters as boxer wonnabes that don't have the talent to box on at the highest level so they have to be able to mix in the street fighting aspect. Because what I see are poor boxers and then once they take it to the ground they become wrestlers. That's the way cats scrap on the street. The dude that is on the bottom usually ends up losing. All I know is that none of those dudes could ever lay hands with an elite fighter. Especially with those lil ass gloves. Just my opinion. I'll Holla 5000

what about people who grew up taking martial arts and wrestling in school, never had the premonition to even become a boxer? thats what most of these guys are, not boxers who couldnt make it, im sure most of them couldnt make it in boxing, just like most basketball players couldnt make it in football

[mikE]

For some reason I see MMA/Pride and other fighters as boxer wonnabes that don't have the talent to box on at the highest level so they have to be able to mix in the street fighting aspect. Because what I see are poor boxers and then once they take it to the ground they become wrestlers. That's the way cats scrap on the street. The dude that is on the bottom usually ends up losing. All I know is that none of those dudes could ever lay hands with an elite fighter. Especially with those lil ass gloves. Just my opinion. I'll Holla 5000

Are you making fun of people who think like this? If so, congrats on a brilliant satire.

[Azazel]

Are you making fun of people who think like this? If so, congrats on a brilliant satire.

I don't agree with Bigdawg view, but now, the average top MMA fighter is less skilled, gifted that the average top boxer. MMA is far easier to pierce. It's still a new developping sport and far less train at it, at a serious level, than people train boxing. As it continues to grow ( and has it start to pay more $$ ), it'll close the gap. Not so long ago, guy's like Paul Vareland were top fighters.

[Buddy Rydell]

I would gladly compare the average number of fans in attendance in the states.

And on the subject of Jakes comment: how is this aligning WITH boxing? Seems to me they're doing the exact opposite here and using boxing's negative media representation and fan reaction and oppose themselves to it. An alternative.

Thats not what you do when you align yourself with another.

I think that perhaps Jake was talking about how they have claimed they are not competing with boxing, and yet they publish releases in the manner he quoted.

[Tam Tam]

I think that perhaps Jake was talking about how they have claimed they are not competing with boxing, and yet they publish releases in the manner he quoted.
I've got no issue with that, then. I've stated a few times in this very thread that its exactly what they are doing. But then again, I don't have an issue with them doing it either...and just quietly, I think it's a bit weak of boxing fan's to cry about that too, considering boxing has survived for so long on simply being the only real commercial combat sport around.

As soon as we've become threatened, look at the reaction. It's certainly not a positive one. It's one of negativity, IMO drawn completely from fear.

[bigdawg]

what about people who grew up taking martial arts and wrestling in school, never had the premonition to even become a boxer? thats what most of these guys are, not boxers who couldnt make it, im sure most of them couldnt make it in boxing, just like most basketball players couldnt make it in football


This is true. Most basketball players are talented enough to compete on the gridiron. As a matter of fact there are not alot of people around that like to get smacked by 250lb linebackers. Alot of people cant handle the physcial nature of the sport. Takes a very special person to wonna go across the middle. But yeah I agree about he promotion part regarding the martial arts and wrestling. However, to me they all start off boxing and then they all pretty much wide up on the ground. To me the fighter that has the better boxing skills mixed in with some street fighting skills which is when a cat gets on the ground usually wins. But hey this is my opinion. Like I said before all these fights are dudes that are skilless boxers take it to the ground. I'll Holla 5000

[bigdawg]

Are you making fun of people who think like this? If so, congrats on a brilliant satire.

Nope not making fun of anything. Just stating my opinion. I'll Holla 5000

[winner by choke]

This is true. Most basketball players are talented enough to compete on the gridiron. As a matter of fact there are not alot of people around that like to get smacked by 250lb linebackers. Alot of people cant handle the physcial nature of the sport. Takes a very special person to wonna go across the middle. But yeah I agree about he promotion part regarding the martial arts and wrestling. However, to me they all start off boxing and then they all pretty much wide up on the ground. To me the fighter that has the better boxing skills mixed in with some street fighting skills which is when a cat gets on the ground usually wins. But hey this is my opinion. Like I said before all these fights are dudes that are skilless boxers take it to the ground. I'll Holla 5000

street fighting skills on the ground??

what about freestyle wrestling, greco-roman wrestling, or brazilian jiu jitsu??

while boxing skills are definitely very important...MMA usually comes down to fighters imposing their game plans and getting the fight where they want it either standing or on the mat.

top wrestlers are equally skilled at "street fighting moves" as boxers are at using their hands.