Rogan vs Dibella (espn)

[Black Market Baby]

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I thought Rogan was making a few good points although I am not a MMA fan (I'm not a hater either, just don't watch a lot of it).

I think the truth lands somewhere in the middle. I think boxing has currently plateau'd for a while. It may re-invigorate itself after a while but is currently suffering from a lull. On the other hand I don't agree that mma is like pitbull fighting, there are nuances that are not always easy to spot in submissions/grappling. Overall I though DiBella was a little defensive, but Rogan was a little eager to push UFC as swallowing boxing.

If this is old, then I'm sorry, I just saw it.

[REEDsART]

SURELY(Hopefully:dunno: ),there's a MIDDLE Ground where Both Sports can Co-Exist...

REED has ACCUSED MMA of having a "Little Brother Complex",which they Do...But the Boxing Heirarchy is Definitely THREATENED by MMA...Both Sides seem PETTY...

MMA Dudes HAVE to Respect the HAND Skills of Boxers & Boxers HAVE to Respect the Versatility & Diversity of MMA Guys...It's Not like there's 1 Dominant Style of Fighting,N MMA...

ULTIMATELY,it's about Good Fights & Good Cards,vs. Packaging a SHITTY PPV, just to Make Money...The Onus is on the Promoters & the Networks to MAKE Fans want to Watch their Sport,vs. EXPECTING them to...



REED:cool:

[Haymaker]

It's stupid man. Boxing is part of MMA, as is Karate, Judo, Tae Kwon Do, etc... it's another discipline that forms part of MMA. In fact, it's still the most exciting and effective discipline in it, as you can see that Saturday's fight was finished via "Boxing". But you can say that yes, MMA corporations have captured the attention of the north american market as boxing has failed to do so with the exception of notable fighters like oscar de la Hoya, Mike Tyson, Trinidad, etc. And that is thanks to UFC, which in fact is not the whole sport, but a corporation that have the most power in terms of marketing, publicity and attendance.

[Azazel]

2 idiots that don't know what the fuck they are talking about. Dibella is they typical Boxing fans who take an elitist attitude while Rogaine is the typical dumb sherdogers who thinks he's extreme cause he follow UFC. To say a shoulder roll or bobing and weaving doesn't work in real fighting is very ignorant, but overall, even thought I can't stand 30 something guy's acting like a teen, he got the better of Dibella who probably hasn't watch MMA once.

[Trplsec]

Boxing deserves to die the slow, painful death that Rogan describes. Greedy promoters, sanctioning bodies and fighters have ruined the sport by putting up roadblocks in the way of the best fighters facing each other.

Who's the Heavyweight Champion? Who's the Middleweight Champion? The various answers to those questions are the reasons that boxing is a fading sport. Fans want to see the best fight against the best so there is a clear picture as to 'who' the best is. We don't know the answer in most weight divisions.

The demise of boxing has nothing to do with MMA being more exciting or closer to real fighting. Boxing has never been about mimicing street fighting. It has always been a learned craft with power, skill and reflexes. Boxing has always been a pleasing blend of beauty and savagery. It has always provided just enough civility to remove us from our blood-lusting nature.

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

I don't agree with DiBella saying that it is human cock fighting. It is safer then boxing.

I also don't agree with Rogan saying that boxing won't make new stars. Bottom line is that boxing pays more money then MMA or any other martial arts sport. So guys know that boxing will pay more.

All that boxing has to do is market the sport better. MMA/UFC blew up because of the Ultimate fighter and De la Hoya Mayweather 24/7 helped to make the fight the biggest grossing fight in boxing history.

[Haymaker]

Boxing deserves to die the slow, painful death that Rogan describes. Greedy promoters, sanctioning bodies and fighters have ruined the sport by putting up roadblocks in the way of the best fighters facing each other.

Who's the Heavyweight Champion? Who's the Middleweight Champion? The various answers to those questions are the reasons that boxing is a fading sport. Fans want to see the best versus the best so there is a clear picture as to 'who' the best is. We don't know the answer in most weight division.



Well, what do you expect?? Do you really see ONE promotion corporation buying all the good boxers contracts and manage it all? We need, not a national commission, but a world boxing comission to rule over and mantain control on the whole sport. But with local ruling bodies, the sport will never get anywhere, since there are hundreds of them.

[valdosta]

I also don't agree with Rogan saying that boxing won't make new stars. Bottom line is that boxing pays more money then MMA or any other martial arts sport. So guys know that boxing will pay more.


Dibella was awfull, he had the perfect chance to bring that point up but he didn't.

[Hanzy]

Well, what do you expect?? Do you really see ONE promotion corporation buying all the good boxers contracts and manage it all? We need, not a national commission, but a world boxing comission to rule over and mantain control on the whole sport. But with local ruling bodies, the sport will never get anywhere, since there are hundreds of them.

Do you think the President of the United States could pass a law to govern boxing with a central commission?:cool:

[3OG]

ULTIMATELY,it's about Good Fights & Good Cards,vs. Packaging a SHITTY PPV, just to Make Money...The Onus is on the Promoters & the Networks to MAKE Fans want to Watch their Sport,vs. EXPECTING them to...



REED:cool:[/quote]
The statement above is the bottom line. It's up to promotors to do a better job of match making and puting cards together. Boxing isn't on the downside it's killing itself. The best fighters in each division running from each other and boring under cards for PPV fights. Rogan was very wrong about boxing not having any stars of the future. The AM and Olympic level feeds us. The UFC stars are mostly about 28 and above outside Nick Diaz and Dieago Sanchez; coupled with the UFC Fighter Show. Even Chuck is 37, and guys like Randy and Grace in their 40's. All the rest look like the same guy: Tats, colored hair, and from Fargo?????:kick:

[Haymaker]

The statement above is the bottom line. It's up to promotors to do a better job of match making and puting cards together. Boxing isn't on the downside it's killing itself. The best fighters in each division running from each other and boring under cards for PPV fights. Rogan was very wrong about boxing not having any stars of the future. The AM and Olympic level feeds us. The UFC stars are mostly about 28 and above outside Nick Diaz and Dieago Sanchez; coupled with the UFC Fighter Show. Even Chuck is 37, and guys like Randy and Grace in their 40's. All the rest look like the same guy: Tats, colored hair, and from Fargo?????:kick:

:lol: true. They are clones. Look at Matt Huges and Sean Sherk.

[cpa5oh]

Boxing has been shitting on its fans for years. Until the UFC starts doing that (and I believe they will at some point,) MMA is going to continue to rise.

[jarhead]

Boxing has been shitting on its fans for years. Until the UFC starts doing that (and I believe they will at some point,) MMA is going to continue to rise.

ahhh but they already do. MMA is a baby, just entering their adolescent years. They will soon be realizing they are getting hosed in the money department. Once that happens, the UFC will lose to the almighty dollar. Capitolism will ruin the UFC. :crafty:

[cpa5oh]

ahhh but they already do. MMA is a baby, just entering their adolescent years. They will soon be realizing they are getting hosed in the money department. Once that happens, the UFC will lose to the almighty dollar. Capitolism will ruin the UFC. :crafty:

Well we will see...I'm not seeing it yet...but expect to eventually...and that's when I'll stop paying for it like I stopped getting boxing PPV's.

[Hanzy]

Boxing has been shitting on its fans for years. Until the UFC starts doing that (and I believe they will at some point,) MMA is going to continue to rise.

You mean the UFC continuously jacking up the PPV prices is all fine and dandy? 12-14 ppvs per year, $40 each. They've shown only 1 free ppv event which was UFC 70 from Manchester, England. Boxing at least gives you free fights here and there. They're giving you Hatton/Castillo and Wlad/Brewster II coming up.

[KaukipRrr]

shoulder roll

This in particular should be BANNED from boxing..:nono:

[Azazel]

You mean the UFC continuously jacking up the PPV prices is all fine and dandy? 12-14 ppvs per year, $40 each. They've shown only 1 free ppv event which was UFC 70 from Manchester, England. Boxing at least gives you free fights here and there. They're giving you Hatton/Castillo and Wlad/Brewster II coming up.

Exactly, that's my biggest beef when comparing MMA ( mainly UFC, usually Pride putted on better show ) and boxing. Pretty much every event is on UFC, and look at the latest one, the overwehlming majority were garbage. Point, is, both MMA promoters and boxing promoters are crooks who try to take the most $$$ out of you while giving you the minimum.

[cpa5oh]

You mean the UFC continuously jacking up the PPV prices is all fine and dandy? 12-14 ppvs per year, $40 each. They've shown only 1 free ppv event which was UFC 70 from Manchester, England. Boxing at least gives you free fights here and there. They're giving you Hatton/Castillo and Wlad/Brewster II coming up.

You have a point. I wasn't happy about the prices going from $29 to $39 in what couldn't have been more than six months.

And with the PPV's coming once every month it does spread the talent out alot more...events aren't as stacked as they were before, at least IMO.

And my guess is that, with the buyout of Pride, we may end up getting to a point where the UFC tries to see how thin they can spread things out and still maximize revenue.

Yet I still feel that, at this point, I'm getting value for my money. I haven't felt that way with boxing in years. Matter of fact, many of boxing's "free" events (which are on premium channels that together cost $20 a month and which I have no interest in other than for the boxing events) aren't worth the time spent watching them (which has value.)

When it comes down to it, the UFC and MMA hasn't had as much time to rape the fan which might be the only reason why it hasn't happened to the degree that it has with boxing...with boxing it happened over a long period of time, a period of time that MMA simply hasn't had yet.

[Hanzy]

You have a point. I wasn't happy about the prices going from $29 to $39 in what couldn't have been more than six months.

And with the PPV's coming once every month it does spread the talent out alot more...events aren't as stacked as they were before, at least IMO.

And my guess is that, with the buyout of Pride, we may end up getting to a point where the UFC tries to see how thin they can spread things out and still maximize revenue.

Yet I still feel that, at this point, I'm getting value for my money. I haven't felt that way with boxing in years. Matter of fact, many of boxing's "free" events (which are on premium channels that together cost $20 a month and which I have no interest in other than for the boxing events) aren't worth the time spent watching them (which has value.)

When it comes down to it, the UFC and MMA hasn't had as much time to rape the fan which might be the only reason why it hasn't happened to the degree that it has with boxing...with boxing it happened over a long period of time, a period of time that MMA simply hasn't had yet.

True.

[TFK]

As time passes, you will see more MMA on free TV. UFC has thier Ultimate Fight Night on Spike, and are working on deals with HBO and ESPN. I think their current deal with Spike is 'exclusive', meaning UFC can't be shown on any other basic cable network, but when the contract expires (soon, I'm not sure when) UFC will have the leverage in negotiating a new contract, and I'm sure the next UFC\Spike contract will not be an exclusive one.

Also, Showtime is on board with Elite XC, IFL has a weekly show, Fox Sports used to show Pride reruns, Bodog is on the Ion Network, I believe WEC is gonna be on the Versus network, so there's more MMA on free (cable) TV then you think, because a lot of it is not UFC.

TFK

[*Z*]

As time passes, you will see more MMA on free TV. UFC has thier Ultimate Fight Night on Spike, and are working on deals with HBO and ESPN. I think their current deal with Spike is 'exclusive', meaning UFC can't be shown on any other basic cable network, but when the contract expires (soon, I'm not sure when) UFC will have the leverage in negotiating a new contract, and I'm sure the next UFC\Spike contract will not be an exclusive one.

Also, Showtime is on board with Elite XC, IFL has a weekly show, Fox Sports used to show Pride reruns, Bodog is on the Ion Network, I believe WEC is gonna be on the Versus network, so there's more MMA on free (cable) TV then you think, because a lot of it is not UFC.

TFK

Very true. Also lets not forget that most of what people refer to as "Free fights" are shown on premium cable channels which you have to PAY FOR. There is more MMA shown than boxing on regular cable channels. Which you also have to pay for but at least it's not on top of your standard cable bill.

[Hanzy]

Truth is, alot of the boxing and mma shown on tv is trash. Nobody watches Wednesday Night Fights or Friday Night Fights, nobody watches ION's Bodog, or Fox Sports' Pride, or IFL or KOTC or Showtime's Elite Fighting. MMA is still a specialty sport with a small market. It's the UFC with it's ppvs that are drawing in the bucks. All these little shows which are planned for HBO will be the equivalent of a Friday Night Fights with a bunch of TUF bums going at it.
Truth is, there are tons of bums in MMA being put on tv. And nobody cares to follow bums on free tv. The fans of the UFC aren't fans of MMA, they're strictly fans of the UFC and that's where it ends.
If you want proof, look at the ppv numbers and ratings for all the other MMA shows and events. Pride couldn't crack 50K in North America on ppv. KOTC is complete rubbish, and Gary Shaw is going to fail miserably with his 2nd Elite Fighting event which he's putting on ppv. Elite Fighting will be finished most likely before the end of the year.

[cpa5oh]

I think the Ultimate Fight Nights are good...but I've tried to watch Bodog and a few others and they are like watching Wednesday night fights, which I never did.

The only one that is mildly interesting to me is the IFL, mainly because it has alot of famous training camps going at it.

[*Z*]

Truth is, alot of the boxing and mma shown on tv is trash. Nobody watches Wednesday Night Fights or Friday Night Fights, nobody watches ION's Bodog, or Fox Sports' Pride, or IFL or KOTC or Showtime's Elite Fighting. MMA is still a specialty sport with a small market. It's the UFC with it's ppvs that are drawing in the bucks. All these little shows which are planned for HBO will be the equivalent of a Friday Night Fights with a bunch of TUF bums going at it.
Truth is, there are tons of bums in MMA being put on tv. And nobody cares to follow bums on free tv. The fans of the UFC aren't fans of MMA, they're strictly fans of the UFC and that's where it ends.
If you want proof, look at the ppv numbers and ratings for all the other MMA shows and events. Pride couldn't crack 50K in North America on ppv. KOTC is complete rubbish, and Gary Shaw is going to fail miserably with his 2nd Elite Fighting event which he's putting on ppv. Elite Fighting will be finished most likely before the end of the year.

I watch all of those shows. If there is fighting in any form on TV, I am watching it.

[Jake]

Truth is, alot of the boxing and mma shown on tv is trash. Nobody watches Wednesday Night Fights or Friday Night Fights, nobody watches ION's Bodog, or Fox Sports' Pride, or IFL or KOTC or Showtime's Elite Fighting. MMA is still a specialty sport with a small market. It's the UFC with it's ppvs that are drawing in the bucks. All these little shows which are planned for HBO will be the equivalent of a Friday Night Fights with a bunch of TUF bums going at it.
Truth is, there are tons of bums in MMA being put on tv. And nobody cares to follow bums on free tv. The fans of the UFC aren't fans of MMA, they're strictly fans of the UFC and that's where it ends.
If you want proof, look at the ppv numbers and ratings for all the other MMA shows and events. Pride couldn't crack 50K in North America on ppv. KOTC is complete rubbish, and Gary Shaw is going to fail miserably with his 2nd Elite Fighting event which he's putting on ppv. Elite Fighting will be finished most likely before the end of the year.
I won't comment on anything non-boxing. As far as FNF, people are still tuning in. If not, then they never would've come out with - and kept reviving - Wednesday Night Fights. The FNF series ratings are actually comparable with (and on more than a few occasions, superior to) NHL, and at a fraction of the cost.

I don't disagree that they've been airing a lot of "so what" type fights in recent years (on paper, anyway). But for what it's worth, the Terry Smith-Kelvin Davis fight a few weeks ago was one of the years best, and undoubtedly the best heavyweight fight of the year, to date.

It's the Fox Sports series (The Best Damn Fight Night, Period) that dried up and has become irrelevant.

ShoBox is still a better prospect-based series than any network can ever claim to air. This weekend, James Kirkland and Tim Bradley fight in separate bouts, both of whom figure to make some noise at 154 and 140/147, respectively.

[Jake]

As far as this debate went, I thought Joe Rogan pretty much wiped his ass with Lou.

I can appreciate Lou's stance since mine would be similar. Where we differ is I have the decency to admit that I hardly follow anything MMA-related, and that most of my opinions would be based on generalizations, whereas Lou tried (and falied miserably) to pass his off as facts.

I didn't agree with everything Rogan said, but more important is that his argument about anything boxing related came across as a more informed opinion than Lou's did about MMA.

[mikE]

Very true. Also lets not forget that most of what people refer to as "Free fights" are shown on premium cable channels which you have to PAY FOR. There is more MMA shown than boxing on regular cable channels. Which you also have to pay for but at least it's not on top of your standard cable bill.

Regular pay cable tv is free. It's part of the ordinary bill for everyone. Hell, a lot of people even have to pay an additional 5 bucks to get their local channels shown in digital...and they do.

There is not more mma shown on regular cable channels than boxing. Depending on how you slice it, it's not even close. Not even remotely close.

Telemundo, TyC, Galavision, Telefutura, Vs, FSE, Espn2, Espn, Espn Classic, and the multitudes of sports channels all have various regular boxing programming. If you argue that some of those are 'premium' cable channels...well, you're not being honest, imo. Premium means HBO, Showtime to me and everyone else.

[Hanzy]

As far as this debate went, I thought Joe Rogan pretty much wiped his ass with Lou.

I can appreciate Lou's stance since mine would be similar. Where we differ is I have the decency to admit that I hardly follow anything MMA-related, and that most of my opinions would be based on generalizations, whereas Lou tried (and falied miserably) to pass his off as facts.

I didn't agree with everything Rogan said, but more important is that his argument about anything boxing related came across as a more informed opinion than Lou's did about MMA.

Rogan's a stand up comic so he can talk sh*t for hours. Dibella knows nothing about MMA other than the negative articles he reads. All he did was regurgitate the same old same old "it's human cockfighting.... ":dunno:

[mikE]

I watch all of those shows. If there is fighting in any form on TV, I am watching it.

Same here, but he still has a point.

[Jake]

Rogan's a stand up comic so he can talk sh*t for hours. Dibella knows nothing about MMA other than the negative articles he reads. All he did was regurgitate the same old same old "it's human cockfighting.... ":dunno:
Is he the same guy that used to host... ah, fuck, some reality show. Fear Factor, maybe?

[Hanzy]

Is he the same guy that used to host... ah, fuck, some reality show. Fear Factor, maybe?

Yeah, he started up as a comedian and still does his club gigs here and there while hosting Fear Factor and doing UFC ppv commentary. A very busy man is Joe Rogan.

[*Z*]

Regular pay cable tv is free. It's part of the ordinary bill for everyone. Hell, a lot of people even have to pay an additional 5 bucks to get their local channels shown in digital...and they do.

There is not more mma shown on regular cable channels than boxing. Depending on how you slice it, it's not even close. Not even remotely close.

Telemundo, TyC, Galavision, Telefutura, Vs, FSE, Espn2, Espn, Espn Classic, and the multitudes of sports channels all have various regular boxing programming. If you argue that some of those are 'premium' cable channels...well, you're not being honest, imo. Premium means HBO, Showtime to me and everyone else.

Showtime and HBO are what I'm talking about when I say Premium Channels. I'm not arguing that at all. I see more MMA on TV than boxing in my area. ESPN, doesn't even show boxing, only ESPN 2, Fox Sports is basically done with boxing. Then there is Versus, how often do they have boxing shows? I just don't see a whole lot of boxing on TV here other than Friday night fights, Wednesday night fights, and weekend Sho and HBO cards. I see Pride, Bodog, IFL, UFC on a lot more lately.

[Erratic]

I don't agree with DiBella saying that it is human cock fighting. It is safer then boxing.

I also don't agree with Rogan saying that boxing won't make new stars. Bottom line is that boxing pays more money then MMA or any other martial arts sport. So guys know that boxing will pay more.


Exactly.

Instead of bringing up things like this, Lou just showed an elitist attitude with the whole argument. Regan wasn't necessarily on point all the time either, but he made his arguments better than Lou did.

[Jake]

Telefutura shows boxing every Friday. Their only issue is that it's not available in every area (like mine, for example :flip: ).

TyC - an Argentinean based channel, also shows fights every weekend, though most are garbage club shows. But they will air almost every world title fight featuring one of their own that isn't otherwise available on a major US network.

MSG also shows a lot of replays and tape-delayed broadcasts, particularly Lou DiBella's Broadway Boxing series.

There is plenty of boxing on TV. The problem is knowing where to find it, which explains why it will most likely never again have more than a cult following.

[mikE]

Showtime and HBO are what I'm talking about when I say Premium Channels. I'm not arguing that at all. I see more MMA on TV than boxing in my area. ESPN, doesn't even show boxing, only ESPN 2, Fox Sports is basically done with boxing. Then there is Versus, how often do they have boxing shows? I just don't see a whole lot of boxing on TV here other than Friday night fights, Wednesday night fights, and weekend Sho and HBO cards. I see Pride, Bodog, IFL, UFC on a lot more lately.

Espn was doing the contender uk vs usa thing recently which is why i included it. Versus used to be twice a month, but I'm not even sure they are doing it monthly lately? Don't know if their deal with arum still stands?

As far as what is televised...I know boxing is on a lot more, but that doesn't mean you run into it...especially since so much is on the hispanic channels I named.

The only program I don't get is Bodog on ion. How good are those shows? Is it about the same as the Sunshine mma or the REALFIGHTS stuff they have been showing lately or is it better?

[Jake]

Espn was doing the contender uk vs usa thing recently which is why i included it. Versus used to be twice a month, but I'm not even sure they are doing it monthly lately? Don't know if their deal with arum still stands?

As far as what is televised...I know boxing is on a lot more, but that doesn't mean you run into it...especially since so much is on the hispanic channels I named.

The only program I don't get is Bodog on ion. How good are those shows? Is it about the same as the Sunshine mma or the REALFIGHTS stuff they have been showing lately or is it better?
the next versus show is mid-June, I believe. Has-Been Rahman is headlining. Their series has been garbage, a huge disappointment, and this next show seems to fall right in line.

[Trplsec]

As far as this debate went, I thought Joe Rogan pretty much wiped his ass with Lou.

I can appreciate Lou's stance since mine would be similar. Where we differ is I have the decency to admit that I hardly follow anything MMA-related, and that most of my opinions would be based on generalizations, whereas Lou tried (and falied miserably) to pass his off as facts.

I didn't agree with everything Rogan said, but more important is that his argument about anything boxing related came across as a more informed opinion than Lou's did about MMA.


Problem is, who in the hell would nominate Lou to be the voice of boxing? This guy couldn't spot a good boxing matchup if his life depended on it..

[LATIN KING]

Yeah, he started up as a comedian and still does his club gigs here and there while hosting Fear Factor and doing UFC ppv commentary. A very busy man is Joe Rogan.Rogan is better off picking fights with Carlos Mencia :notallthere:


funny I used to like that show "news radio" even though he was in it. :popcorn: