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Double L
06-18-2007, 10:26 PM
What's your top 5 or top 10, as of now, at 147? Basically, if they all fought each other, who beats whom?

1. Margarito
2. Mosley
3. Clottey
4. Cotto
5. Cintron/Williams


I think Cotto/Clottey would be a savage fight. But I think it's one Clottey would win by close decision. And I think Cintron KO's Williams' leaky defense, and Cotto beats Cintron up, Margarito already beat Clottey , and I think he eeks out a decision against Williams.

Mosley/Clottey would be a scary fight too. Too close to call. I pick Mosley over Cotto though, because of his hand-speed and above average strength.

But man. This division is looking nice.

I don't know where to put Mosley though.

Godfather
06-18-2007, 10:28 PM
I cant believe Cintron is a belt holder.

Tam Tam
06-18-2007, 10:30 PM
What's your top 5 or top 10, as of now, at 147? Basically, if they all fought each other, who beats whom?

1. Margarito
2. Mosley
3. Clottey
4. Cotto
5. Cintron/Williams


I think Cotto/Clottey would be a savage fight. But I think it's one Clottey would win by close decision. And I think Cintron KO's Williams' leaky defense, and Cotto beats Cintron up, Margarito already beat Clottey , and I think he eeks out a decision against Williams.

Mosley/Clottey would be a scary fight too. Too close to call. I pick Mosley over Cotto though, because of his hand-speed and above average strength.

But man. This division is looking nice.

I don't know where to put Mosley though.

1. Cotto
2. Mosley
3. Margarito
4. Cintron
5. Baldomir
6. Williams
7. Clottey
8. Judah
9. Collazo
10. Quintana

Godfather
06-18-2007, 10:34 PM
1. Cotto
2. Mosley
3. Margarito
4. Cintron
5. Baldomir
6. Williams
7. Clottey
8. Judah
9. Collazo
10. QuintanaYou think Mosely, Cintron, Baldomir, Williams beat Clottey? I got Clottey right below miguel. A rematch with CLottey and MArgarito will be a win for Clottey.

Tam Tam
06-18-2007, 10:38 PM
You think Mosely, Cintron, Baldomir, Williams beat Clottey? I got Clottey right below miguel. A rematch with CLottey and MArgarito will be a win for Clottey.
Yes, I do. Clottey has shown no reason to think he could beat a top flight fighter, IMO. Nice, semi-aggressive fighter. Short, crisp shots. Easy to hit. No stamina. Quits fighting and fouls.

Margairot handled Clottey with ease last time. If you chose to believe the hand excuse, so be it. But Clottey has never been anything more than a 5-6 round fighter. Hell, even Corrales had success against him at times.

But thats why rankings are individualised. There's no right answer.

mexican wedding shirt
06-18-2007, 10:44 PM
A while ago I thought mosley was done, but after seeing the Vargas rematch and the collazo fight, no way. He looked almost as good as he ever has done at 147 in those fights.

I would be tempted to pick Mosley over Cotto.

For now though I would rank cotto #1.

1 - Cotto
2 - Mosley
3 - Margarito

No way cotto loses to clottey, or anyone else at welterweight other than mosley.

Godfather
06-18-2007, 10:46 PM
A while ago I thought mosley was done, but after seeing the Vargas rematch and the collazo fight, no way. He looked almost as good as he ever has done at 147 in those fights.

I would be tempted to pick Mosley over Cotto.

For now though I would rank cotto #1.

1 - Cotto
2 - Mosley
3 - Margarito

No way cotto loses to clottey, or anyone else at welterweight other than mosley.I dont give those wins over Vargas any credability. Vargas was shot. Anyone would have looked against thim. I think Mosely still has some proving to do. I see Margarito beating him similar to the way Forrest did. Maybe in a more devastating fashion.

Tam Tam
06-18-2007, 10:49 PM
I don't give those Vargas wins any credibility in the context of this thread, because they weren't welterweight fights. The Collazo one was though and he looked as good as he has in years.

mexican wedding shirt
06-18-2007, 10:51 PM
Vargas was shot, he looked shot in the second fight for sure, I agree. But still, if mosley had been shot too, he would not have wasted vargas like that, it would have been a more even fight :lol:

And I was impressed with the way he handled collazo too, he is no bum.

Forrest had the perfect style to neutralize mosley, anti mosley venom in his gloves as they say.

Margarito, no way. He is a basic pressure fighter, mosley is much better. And margarito is nothing like forrest, style wise.

I don't dislike margarito, he is quite fun to watch. I enjoyed his ass kicking of cintron, but to be honest I've always thought he was pretty overrated.

mexican wedding shirt
06-18-2007, 10:52 PM
I don't give those Vargas wins any credibility in the context of this thread, because they weren't welterweight fights. The Collazo one was though and he looked as good as he has in years.

Exactly. Why do you think mosley appeared to be past it, then suddenly fought through the shot-ness, and is now looking pretty good? :lol:

Double L
06-18-2007, 10:53 PM
Yes, I do. Clottey has shown no reason to think he could beat a top flight fighter, IMO. Nice, semi-aggressive fighter. Short, crisp shots. Easy to hit. No stamina. Quits fighting and fouls.

Margairot handled Clottey with ease last time. If you chose to believe the hand excuse, so be it. But Clottey has never been anything more than a 5-6 round fighter. Hell, even Corrales had success against him at times.

But thats why rankings are individualised. There's no right answer.

yeah. Clottey does fade now that you mention it. and Corrales wasn't exactly a proven quantity at 147. but Clottey's strong. and although he does go into lulls, he's good at getting the rest he needs. him against any of the guys at the top is gonna be a great fight whether he can beat em or not.

valdosta
06-18-2007, 10:57 PM
I wonder where Clottey's next fight will be at. I don't think he has much time left at 147 if any.

Mitchell Kane
06-18-2007, 11:12 PM
What's your top 5 or top 10, as of now, at 147? Basically, if they all fought each other, who beats whom?

1. Margarito
2. Mosley
3. Clottey
4. Cotto
5. Cintron/Williams


I think Cotto/Clottey would be a savage fight. But I think it's one Clottey would win by close decision. And I think Cintron KO's Williams' leaky defense, and Cotto beats Cintron up, Margarito already beat Clottey , and I think he eeks out a decision against Williams.

Mosley/Clottey would be a scary fight too. Too close to call. I pick Mosley over Cotto though, because of his hand-speed and above average strength.

But man. This division is looking nice.

I don't know where to put Mosley though.

I agree with your top two, and would move Cotto above Clottey. I think Williams is better than Cintron.

dymipepel
06-18-2007, 11:14 PM
Where is Mayweather? In his last 3 fights, he beat:

1) Former weltwerweight champion of the world
2) Reigning, undisputed, true, linear welterweight champion of the world
3) Former undisputed, true, linear welterweight champion of the world

Mayweather is by far the number one welterweight in the world, no one else even comes close.

Double L
06-18-2007, 11:16 PM
Where is Mayweather? In his last 3 fights, he beat:

1) Former weltwerweight champion of the world
2) Reigning, undisputed, true, linear welterweight champion of the world
3) Former undisputed, true, linear welterweight champion of the world

Mayweather is by far the number one welterweight in the world, no one else even comes close.

he's at 154. prolly no. 3 or 4.

dymipepel
06-18-2007, 11:21 PM
he's at 154. prolly no. 3 or 4.

:nono: Just like Whitaker's excursion to 154, it was one fight only and then back to ruling 147 with an iron fist. Mayweather is clearly the superior fighter at 147, due to his accomplishments.
Think about it, in his two or three fights at 147, Mayweather already beaten the better quality of opponents, than, say, a guy like Margarito (who spent his entire career at welterweight) will ever see in the ring.

Mitchell Kane
06-18-2007, 11:23 PM
:nono: Just like Whitaker's excursion to 154, it was one fight and then back to ruling 147 with an iron fist. Mayweather is clearly the superior fighter at 147, due to his accomplishments.
Think about it, in his two or three fights at 147, Mayweather already beaten the better quality of opponents, than, say, a guy like Margarito will ever see in the ring.

Well, Margarito has Williams and Cotto lined up.

Who does Mayweather have next?

dymipepel
06-18-2007, 11:26 PM
Well, Margarito has Williams and Cotto lined up.


He has them lined up? Wow! Call me when he actually beats them,.
Once again, think about it, Margarito, a career welterweight, has significant fights "lined up" (for the first time in his career), while Maywether ALREADY had more significant fights at 147, than Margarito has "lined up".
As to what Mayweather does next? He can stay retired, but probably he'll take a tune-up against loser of Cotto-Margarito (Margarito), before destroying Cotto or Mosley.

Double L
06-18-2007, 11:34 PM
He has them lined up? Wow! Call me when he actually beats them,.
Once again, think about it, Margarito, a career welterweight, has significant fights "lined up" (for the first time in his career), while Maywether ALREADY had more significant fights at 147, than Margarito has "lined up".
As to what Mayweather does next? He can stay retired, but probably he'll take a tune-up against loser of Cotto-Margarito (Margarito), before destroying Cotto or Mosley.

ok. but suppose Margarito beats Williams in July, and then Cotto in September. By that point, PBF will not have had another fight. What claim does he have then? Just hypothetically speaking?

Mitchell Kane
06-18-2007, 11:36 PM
He has them lined up? Wow! Call me when he actually beats them,.
Once again, think about it, Margarito, a career welterweight, has significant fights "lined up" (for the first time in his career), while Maywether ALREADY had more significant fights at 147, than Margarito has "lined up".
As to what Mayweather does next? He can stay retired, but probably he'll take a tune-up against loser of Cotto-Margarito (Margarito), before destroying Cotto or Mosley.

"Mayweather already beaten the better quality of opponents, than, say, a guy like Margarito will ever see in the ring."

So Baldomir and Judah are better than Williams and Cotto?

Cotto's the most highly regarded of the four, so I don't get your comment about who Margarito "will ever see in the ring"...which, btw, doesn't say anything about if he "beats them".

dymipepel
06-18-2007, 11:46 PM
ok. but suppose Margarito beats Williams in July, and then Cotto in September. By that point, PBF will not have had another fight. What claim does he have then? Just hypothetically speaking?

Suppose by that time Mayweather kicks the shit out of Taylor, and dominates Calzaghe. What then? Just hypothetically speaking?

dymipepel
06-18-2007, 11:48 PM
Cotto's the most highly regarded of the four, so I don't get your comment about who Margarito "will ever see in the ring"...which, btw, doesn't say anything about if he "beats them".

I like to live in the present. As of today, Margarito never fought a single fighter, on the level of Judah or Baldomir, and, of course, ODLH.
And I suspect, that a cowardly pussy might well pull out of his fight(s), just like he attempted to avoid Williams in the past.
"Who has Williams beaten? Why should I fight him?"--Antonio The Fag, speaking about Paul Williams, his alleged next opponent.

Double L
06-18-2007, 11:50 PM
Suppose by that time Mayweather kicks the shit out of Taylor, and dominates Calzaghe. What then? Just hypothetically speaking?

then he couldn't be ranked at 147. and he'd certainly have no claim as the champion there.

i'm happy to leave PBF out of the 147 rankings. why aren't you? he's basically said none of them are worth his while, so how can you justify ranking him there?

Mitchell Kane
06-18-2007, 11:52 PM
I like to live in the present. As of today, Margarito never fought a single fighter, on the level of Judah or Baldomir, and, of course, ODLH.
And I suspect, that a cowardly pussy might well pull out of his fight(s), just like he attempted to avoid Williams in the past.
"Who has Williams beaten? Why should I fight him?"--Antonio The Fag, speaking about Paul Williams, his alleged next opponent.

I'd put Clottey on Baldomir's level or above it. Probably the same with Santos.

valdosta
06-18-2007, 11:54 PM
1. Mayweather
2. Cotto
3. Margarito
4. Mosley
5. Baldomir

dymipepel
06-18-2007, 11:54 PM
then he couldn't be ranked at 147. and he'd certainly have no claim as the champion there.


I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that after beating Taylor and destroying Calzaghe, Floyd moves down to 147 and kicks the living hell out of whatever pretender claims to be "the champion" by that time there. What would you say then? Hypothetically speaking?

dymipepel
06-18-2007, 11:57 PM
I'd put Clottey on Baldomir's level or above it.

You would certainly do so. However, when these two met in the ring, Clottey couldn't handle Baldomir's pressure, broke down and fouled his way out. That certainly proves what level each fighter occupies.
Of course, you can pretend that fight never happened and still place "Clottey on Baldomir's level or above it" :lol: :lol:

Double L
06-19-2007, 12:00 AM
1. Mayweather
2. Cotto
3. Margarito
4. Mosley
5. Baldomir

you think Baldomir beats Williams and Cintron? Does Baldomir beat a guy like Mattyhse? He definitely loses a rematch to Clottey, no? And how the hell does Baldomir beat Collazo? You think he does?

Double L
06-19-2007, 12:03 AM
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that after beating Taylor and destroying Calzaghe, Floyd moves down to 147 and kicks the living hell out of whatever pretender claims to be "the champion" by that time there. What would you say then? Hypothetically speaking?

if he did that, then he'd be champ. but you and i both know he's not going to. do you see what i'm getting at though? theres no circumstance under which you would see PBF's accomplishments at 147 for what they are - minimal in the scheme of things. And if Margarito prevails, dwarfed to the max.

dymipepel
06-19-2007, 12:10 AM
if he did that, then he'd be champ. but you and i both know he's not going to. do you see what i'm getting at though? theres no circumstance under which you would see PBF's accomplishments at 147 for what they are - minimal in the scheme of things. And if Margarito prevails, dwarfed to the max.

Name me current fighter(s) at 147 who defeated:
1) former undisputed, true, linear weltwerweight champion of the world (ODLH)
2) reigning undisputed, true, linear weltwerweight champion of the world (Baldomir)
3) former undisputed, true, linear weltwerweight champion of the world (Judah)

Thank you.

Double L
06-19-2007, 12:13 AM
Name me current fighter(s) at 147 who defeated:
1) former undisputed, true, linear weltwerweight champion of the world
2) reigning undisputed, true, linear weltwerweight champion of the world

Thank you.

no. i'm saying, pretend Margarito beats Williams and Cotto. how does his claim at 147 then compare to PBF's? that's all i'm asking. i'm not even suggesting it's possible. or even likely. i'm just saying, suppose it happens, can you at least admit that it will be a bigger accomplishment than PBF's at 147? or is there nothing any fighter can do to top PBF's wins over Judah and Baldomir?

dymipepel
06-19-2007, 12:19 AM
no. i'm saying, pretend Margarito beats Williams and Cotto. how does his claim at 147 then compare to PBF's? that's all i'm asking. i'm not even suggesting it's possible. or even likely. i'm just saying, suppose it happens

Why waste my time supposing something that never will happen?
Dude, we're talking about Margarito here, a guy who spent his ENTIRE career at 147 and who has nothing to show for it.
I mean, Clottey is one of the biggest names on his resume, Baldomir's achieved more than that, for Chris' sakes.

Double L
06-19-2007, 12:23 AM
Why waste my time supposing something that never will happen?
Dude, we're talking about Margarito here, a guy who spent his ENTIRE career at 147 and who has nothing to show for it.
I mean, Clottey is one of the biggest names on his resume, Baldomir's achieved more than that, for Chris' sakes.

ok. then let me spell it out. forget about margarito. if a fighter, any fighter, manages to beat Cotto and Williams, will he have a bigger claim to the 147 title than PBF?

dymipepel
06-19-2007, 12:34 AM
ok. then let me spell it out. forget about margarito. if a fighter, any fighter, manages to beat Cotto and Williams, will he have a bigger claim to the 147 title than PBF?

Not if PBF beats the living hell out of this mythical "fighter".

Double L
06-19-2007, 12:38 AM
Not if PBF beats the living hell out of this mythical "fighter".

ok. so if PBF doesn't fight this mythical fighter, he certainly can't beat him. and thus, his claim to the 147 pound title will be no more.

Mitchell Kane
06-19-2007, 12:39 AM
You would certainly do so. However, when these two met in the ring, Clottey couldn't handle Baldomir's pressure, broke down and fouled his way out. That certainly proves what level each fighter occupies.
Of course, you can pretend that fight never happened and still place "Clottey on Baldomir's level or above it" :lol: :lol:

I wasn't pretending it never happened, but few people have seen the fight (which took place eight years ago) that it's hard to get solid accounts of a fight I've never seen.

What I do know is Clottey was something like 22 years old, much younger than Baldomir was at the time, and much less experienced, yet was winning the fight late and had points taken away because of headbutts and was ultimately disqualified.

Not sure how that "certainly proves what level each fighter occupies" eight years later.

dymipepel
06-19-2007, 12:42 AM
ok. so if PBF doesn't fight this mythical fighter, he certainly can't beat him. and thus, his claim to the 147 pound title will be no more.

but why PBF wouldn't fight this mythical fighther? PBF already fought the best at 147, why would he not fight the best there again?

dymipepel
06-19-2007, 12:43 AM
What I do know is Clottey was he was something like 22 years old, much younger than Baldomir was at the time, and much less experienced, yet was winning the fight late and had points taken away because of headbutts and was ultimately disqualified.



And what I know is that Baldomir proved (in the ring) to be a better fighter than Clottey.

Mitchell Kane
06-19-2007, 12:46 AM
And what I know is that Baldomir proved (in the ring) to be a better fighter than Clottey.

So you take a snapshot of two fighters career eight years ago and that proves what level they're at currently?

Baldomir was six years older and had fought in over twice as many fights.

Have you even seen the fight to be drawing the conclusions you do?

dymipepel
06-19-2007, 12:50 AM
So you take a snapshot of two fighters career eight years ago and that proves what level they're at currently?



I have no idea what level they're currently at.
The only hard fact I know is that Baldomir defeated Clottey.

Double L
06-19-2007, 12:54 AM
but why PBF wouldn't fight this mythical fighther? PBF already fought the best at 147, why would he not fight the best there again?

because he's already declared all parties involved not worth his while. that says to me that he has no intention of fighting any of them. he doesn't even consider Mosley worth his while, the guy who beat ODH twice, and more impressively than he himself did (figure that one out).

Mitchell Kane
06-19-2007, 12:54 AM
I have no idea what level they're currently at.
The only hard fact I know is that Baldomir defeated Clottey.

He won on a disqualification in a bout that Clottey was winning on the scorecars, despite the fact that he lost two points in the 10th round for an "intentional" headbutt.

That's some "hard fact" about who the better fighter was.

Wouldn't you even like to see the headbutt that was ruled "intentional" before drawing conclusions on the fight (let alone the rest of the fight)?

dymipepel
06-19-2007, 12:58 AM
He won on a disqualification in a bout that Clottey was winning on the scorecars, despite the fact that he lost two points in the 10th round for an "intentional" headbutt.

That's some "hard fact" about who the better fighter was.

Wouldn't you even like to see the headbutt that was ruled "intentional" before drawing conclusions on the fight (let alone the rest of the fight)?

Dude, I've seen the entire fight and will post screenshots tomorrow, when I get back from work......Baldomir methodically broke down Clottey, until the guy just fouled his way out.

Mitchell Kane
06-19-2007, 12:58 AM
Dude, I've seen the entire fight and will post screenshots tomorrow, when I get back from work......Baldomir methodically broke down Clottey, until the guy just fouled his way out.

Can you post screenshots of the headbutts, please?

?H?L?QU?L?$
06-19-2007, 01:06 AM
And if Margarito prevails, dwarfed to the max.
So Margarito ranks ahead based on what he MAY do and what Floyd MAY not do. :clap:

You're the first in line to call fraud fans when one dares to speculate Floyd will probably beat Adrian Stone but you rank Margarito as #1 because your biased 99% likely to be wrong ass thinks Margarito will beat Williams and Cotto.:rolleyes:

Mark my words, Castillo and Margarito are getting beat this year. With DLH already getting beat, you better start looking for a new mejicano. JC Chavez Jr to beat Mayweather anyone? :dunno:

Neil
06-19-2007, 01:38 AM
mayweather, margarito, cotto, mosley,clottey

Neil
06-19-2007, 01:41 AM
no. i'm saying, pretend Margarito beats Williams and Cotto. how does his claim at 147 then compare to PBF's? that's all i'm asking. i'm not even suggesting it's possible. or even likely. i'm just saying, suppose it happens, can you at least admit that it will be a bigger accomplishment than PBF's at 147? or is there nothing any fighter can do to top PBF's wins over Judah and Baldomir?

if margarito beats williams then the winner of him and cotto would certainly vault to the top and be 1 or 1a with mayweather

Double L
06-19-2007, 01:43 AM
So Margarito ranks ahead based on what he MAY do and what Floyd MAY not do. :clap:

You're the first in line to call fraud fans when one dares to speculate Floyd will probably beat Adrian Stone but you rank Margarito as #1 because your biased 99% likely to be wrong ass thinks Margarito will beat Williams and Cotto.:rolleyes:

Mark my words, Castillo and Margarito are getting beat this year. With DLH already getting beat, you better start looking for a new mejicano. JC Chavez Jr to beat Mayweather anyone? :dunno:

dude, you can't even see my point. i'm not even talking about margarito. you're just bustin in on a discussion with your usual PBF can do no wrong defense, and it's not even what we're talking about.

i'm simply pointing out a hypothetical scenario under which PBF would lose his "claim" as the 147 king that dympipiel seems to think he has.

why would i do this? i do this to make the point that dympipiel's nose is so far up PBF's ass that he can't even fathom a scenario in which somebody other than PBF would've earned the distinction as welter-weight champion. in other words, it needs to be acknowledged that when PBF cherry-picks his way through divisions, he inevitably runs the risk of losing a true claim as a champion of any division.

this has nothing to do with your PBF crusade, and the fact that my dislike for the guy seems to drive you nuts,

KaukipRrr
06-19-2007, 11:51 AM
1) Mosely / Margarito
2) Cotto
3) Clottey
4) Cintron

Baldomir is a fucking scrub who's got a connection with three of the most overrated fighters ever, no wonder why this genuine journeyman is still being mentioned. Thankfully Vernon Forrest will shut that shit out for good.

*Z*
06-19-2007, 01:47 PM
I like to live in the present. As of today, Margarito never fought a single fighter, on the level of Judah or Baldomir, and, of course, ODLH.
And I suspect, that a cowardly pussy might well pull out of his fight(s), just like he attempted to avoid Williams in the past.
"Who has Williams beaten? Why should I fight him?"--Antonio The Fag, speaking about Paul Williams, his alleged next opponent.

I like to live in the present too. Mayweather is retired. You can't rank a retired guy. If he announces he's going to fight on then by all means rank him any way you want. Until then he's retired and has no place in this thread. Take it to mythical matchups if you want to talk about retired fighters.

joony
06-19-2007, 02:07 PM
margarito
cotto
mosley
clottey
cintron

mikE
06-19-2007, 02:54 PM
betting:
floyd
cotto
margarito
mosley
williams

hope:
margarito
floyd
cotto
williams
mosley

possible:
every combination.
Their styles are so different that until they fight it's going to be bs guesswork.
Margarito williams is only the first step.
Yes, it's hard to imagine Floyd being the 5th best, but when I look at the others, yeah..they all bring different things that could trouble floyd, at least potentially.

dymipepel
06-19-2007, 10:24 PM
Well, here's a few promsided screenshots....
Clottey, unable to handle Baldomir's pressure, rams his head in Carlos' face

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w97/burunduk34/2.jpg


Referee, fed up with Clottey's persistent fouling, DQs him.


http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w97/burunduk34/1.jpg

dymipepel
06-19-2007, 10:25 PM
P.S. If anyone wants a DVD of the fight, PM me....