Does anyone stand a chance against a "prime" RJJ? Or was he invincible?

[Double L]

?

RJJ has now lost lop-sided fights to Tarver and Johnson, and looked less than stellar against Prince Abju and Tony the Tiger.

But some seem to suggest every weakness and vulnerability RJJ has shown is due strictly to his aging.

But my guess is some of those same vulnerabilities existed even in his prime - he just never fought anyone smart enough to exploit them.

Most seem to disagree.

So what is the consensus? Are we "really" comfortable with the claim that nobody in history could've beaten RJJ? And the other thing I keep hearing is that not only would a prime RJJ have beaten everyone, he would've done it easily and in impressive fashion. All B.S. if you ask me. The guy was over-rated as hell, even in his prime. It's time we admit it to ourselves.

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

Well nobody was invincible. Obviously a guy like Foster has a shot at beating Roy with his one punch punch power.

In Roys prime counter punchers gave Roy the most trouble im not sure what great counter punchers there were in the sport 20 years ago. Who knows if Tarver could have beat Roy in his prime, but he would have given him some problems style wise something i don't think Glen Johnson would have done.

[Ugotabe Kidding]

At 168 I don't see anybody beating Roid. At that weigh, he was the best fighter I have ever seen

[Hex-One]

At 168 I don't see anybody beating Roid. At that weigh, he was the best fighter I have ever seenI agree. No one is invincible but a prime RJ is close to that statement.

[Double L]

Well nobody was invincible. Obviously a guy like Foster has a shot at beating Roy with his one punch punch power.

In Roys prime counter punchers gave Roy the most trouble im not sure what great counter punchers there were in the sport 20 years ago. Who knows if Tarver could have beat Roy in his prime, but he would have given him some problems style wise something i don't think Glen Johnson would have done.

Johnson wasn't just an ordinary come forward guy. His success against RJJ was attributable to his staying close to RJJ, moving his head, and being durable enough mentally "and" physically to not be discouraged by RJJ's occasional sick counters to the belly or his blazing flurries to the top.

So while I'd have to favor a prime RJJ to beat Johnson, I still think RJJ would've had a lot of trouble with him - at least the Johnson that showed up that night.

[His_Royness]

Johnson wasn't just an ordinary come forward guy. His success against RJJ was attributable to his staying close to RJJ, moving his head, and being durable enough mentally "and" physically to not be discouraged by RJJ's occasional sick counters to the belly or his blazing flurries to the top.

So while I'd have to favor a prime RJJ to beat Johnson, I still think RJJ would've had a lot of trouble with him - at least the Johnson that showed up that night.


bullshit and you know it, RJJ-Sosa is the way Roy handled pressure fighters that were able to stay "close" to Roy...


And no way some overhyped oldtimer from 50 years ago beats Roy... :laughing:

[joony]

lets be real. the only reason why haters hated roy was because he was indeed unbeatable. it's really hard to argue that any fighter in history of boxing would've beaten roy at his best.

[Double L]

bullshit and you know it, RJJ-Sosa is the way Roy handled pressure fighters that were able to stay "close" to Roy...


And no way some overhyped oldtimer from 50 years ago beats Roy... :laughing:

you're comparing Sosa to Johnson? now "that's" stupid. especially when you're talking about the Johnson that showed up that night. Sosa is like a Iran Barkley (although not as good) - tough and strong but not particularly skilled. Johnson used careful pressure, good head movement, and steady pressure to beat RJJ. and short punching to the body and head.

i wouldn't even call Sosa a pressure fighter - that's giving him too much credit. pressure fighters are methodical and know how to handle themselves in close quarters. that's not Sosa at all.

[mikE]

I know someone who thought he was beatable.

Himself.

[Mitchell Kane]

bullshit and you know it, RJJ-Sosa is the way Roy handled pressure fighters that were able to stay "close" to Roy...


And no way some overhyped oldtimer from 50 years ago beats Roy... :laughing:

By handled you mean "got a quick stoppage"? :lol:

[Buddy Rydell]

Well nobody was invincible. Obviously a guy like Foster has a shot at beating Roy with his one punch punch power.

In Roys prime counter punchers gave Roy the most trouble im not sure what great counter punchers there were in the sport 20 years ago. Who knows if Tarver could have beat Roy in his prime, but he would have given him some problems style wise something i don't think Glen Johnson would have done.

Michael Moorer at 175 would have been a really tough fight. Moorer was pretty heavyhanded and fast at 175, but his footwork wasn't that great.

[slystaff]

?

RJJ has now lost lop-sided fights to Tarver and Johnson, and looked less than stellar against Prince Abju and Tony the Tiger.

But some seem to suggest every weakness and vulnerability RJJ has shown is due strictly to his aging.

But my guess is some of those same vulnerabilities existed even in his prime - he just never fought anyone smart enough to exploit them.

Most seem to disagree.

So what is the consensus? Are we "really" comfortable with the claim that nobody in history could've beaten RJJ? And the other thing I keep hearing is that not only would a prime RJJ have beaten everyone, he would've done it easily and in impressive fashion. All B.S. if you ask me. The guy was over-rated as hell, even in his prime. It's time we admit it to ourselves.No fighter is invincible..BUT...I'd pick a Prime RJJ over any other fighter in history, including Sugar Ray Robinson.

[Hex-One]

No fighter is invincible..BUT...I'd pick a Prime RJJ over any other fighter in history, including Sugar Ray Robinson. I agree!

[His_Royness]

By handled you mean "got a quick stoppage"? :lol:


so? funny guy... :rolleyes:

[Tyler Durden]

Johnson wasn't just an ordinary come forward guy. His success against RJJ was attributable to his staying close to RJJ, moving his head, and being durable enough mentally "and" physically to not be discouraged by RJJ's occasional sick counters to the belly or his blazing flurries to the top.

So while I'd have to favor a prime RJJ to beat Johnson, I still think RJJ would've had a lot of trouble with him - at least the Johnson that showed up that night.

The last guy before Johnson that tried that, guess what Roy's weight and speed was :nono:

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[Mean Mr Mustard]

Dariusz Michalczewski was the guy that everyone wanted to see fight a prime Roy Jones Jr.
In hindsight and given RJJ's shaky chin, that would've been a good fight.

[Mitchell Kane]

so? funny guy... :rolleyes:

Sosa wasn't that good of a fighter to begin with, so the use of him as an example to demonstrate how Jones handles pressure doesn't mean much...but even using him, the fight was stopped prematurely. If the point is how well Jones does against pressure fighters, less than two full rounds doesn't prove much (unless you think he gets quick stoppages over every pressure fighter in history).

[slystaff]

Dariusz Michalczewski was the guy that everyone wanted to see fight a prime Roy Jones Jr.
In hindsight and given RJJ's shaky chin, that would've been a good fight.I don't think Jones had shaky chin in his prime. I think the move back down from Heavyweight at his age destroyed him.

Consider Sugar Ray Leonard in his mid thirties. He moves back down to 154 after companing at 160 and 168 and gets dropped and hurt repeatedly by Terry Norris.

granted Norris could bang...but he certainly didn't hit as hard as tommy Hearns or even Hagler.

[Double L]

The last guy before Johnson that tried that, guess what Roy's weight and speed was :nono:



what's your point? and who is this "last guy before Johnson that tried that?"

[Tyler Durden]

what's your point? and who is this "last guy before Johnson that tried that?"

When a fighter tried that, they had too much hell to pay when he was prime @ 168, even in the Johnson fight, I think it was in the third round......just briefly Roy threw combos that had Johnson reeling away........then Roy tired out. Imagine doing that for 12 rounds, Johnson would be out or easily outpointed to a decision :dunno: Pressuring Roy always made him turn up the heat and make his opponent back off. Because he he is old now and it was effective at the end of his career, the myth was spawned that's all you had to do to beat him now :rolleyes:

[Double L]

When a fighter tried that, they had too much hell to pay when he was prime @ 168, even in the Johnson fight, I think it was in the third round......just briefly Roy threw combos that had Johnson reeling away........then Roy tired out. Imagine doing that for 12 rounds, Johnson would be out or easily outpointed to a decision :dunno: Pressuring Roy always made him turn up the heat and make his opponent back off. Because he he is old now and it was effective at the end of his career, the myth was spawned that's all you had to do to beat him now :rolleyes:

didn't answer my question. what fighter during RJJ's prime applied in close pressure with consistent head movement, a solid chin, a big heart and short punches? and a willingness to walk through some fire. can you answer me that question?

[Tyler Durden]

what's your point? and who is this "last guy before Johnson that tried that?"

I thought that was answered in the video :dunno:

[Tyler Durden]

didn't answer my question. what fighter during RJJ's prime applied in close pressure with consistent head movement, a solid chin, a big heart and short punches? and a willingness to walk through some fire. can you answer me that question?

I did with the video :doh:

[Double L]

I thought that was answered in the video :dunno:

your video failed to broadcast - at least in my browser. can you just name the fucking guy. oh, and he'd better have a short jab too.

[Tyler Durden]

didn't answer my question. what fighter during RJJ's prime applied in close pressure with consistent head movement, a solid chin, a big heart and short punches? and a willingness to walk through some fire. can you answer me that question?

James Toney had those attributes aswell :dunno:

[Tyler Durden]

your video failed to broadcast - at least in my browser. can you just name the fucking guy. oh, and he'd better have a short jab too.

Bryant Brannon applied pressure on Roy, Virgil Hill applied pressure on Roy, and I don't care if you disagree or not, it is a FACT Sosa applied pressure on Roy :dunno:

[Double L]

:laughing: Bryant Brannon applied pressure on Roy, Virgil Hill applied pressure on Roy, and I don't care if you disagree or not, it is a FACT Sosa applied pressure on Roy :dunno:

those are all B.S. examples. and not comparable at all. Virgil Hill applied pressure? :laughing: Virgil Hill has the heart of a lion like Johnson and head movement and is a good inside fighter? :laughing:

James Toney? Great fighter but stylistically couldn't be more different than Johnson.

I'm not saying prime RJJ doesn't beat a fighter like the Johnson that showed up that night, but I can't think of an example of when he did. and you haven't provided one.

Bryant Brannon? :laughing: Please.

[Tyler Durden]

:laughing:

those are all B.S. examples. and not comparable at all. Virgil Hill applied pressure? :laughing: Virgil Hill has the heart of a lion like Johnson and head movement and is a good inside fighter? :laughing:

James Toney? Great fighter but stylistically couldn't be more different than Johnson.

I'm not saying prime RJJ doesn't beat a fighter like the Johnson that showed up that night, but I can't think of an example of when he did. and you haven't provided one.

Bryant Brannon? :laughing: Please.

You asked who applied pressure, I told you. Of course Toney and the other are different fighters, ALL fighters are different fighters :notallthere:

So it's funny Toney has a chin, head movement and short punches on inside fighting? It's your list of attributes you are laughing at :dunno:

Hopkin's pressured Roy too, but I just went before prime :doh:

You are telling me to compare a pressure fighter and how he did against Roy when he was shot and MUCH slower :rolleyes: Laugh it up, but take a GOOD look in the mirror.....

[Tyler Durden]

Bryant Brannon applied pressure on Roy, Virgil Hill applied pressure on Roy, and I don't care if you disagree or not, it is a FACT Sosa applied pressure on Roy :dunno:

Who here disagrees with this statement enough to apply FOUR LMAO smilies? :lol:

[Mean Mr Mustard]

I don't think Jones had shaky chin in his prime. I think the move back down from Heavyweight at his age destroyed him.

Consider Sugar Ray Leonard in his mid thirties. He moves back down to 154 after companing at 160 and 168 and gets dropped and hurt repeatedly by Terry Norris.

granted Norris could bang...but he certainly didn't hit as hard as tommy Hearns or even Hagler.
DM had legit power though, yes?
Moreso than any of RJJ's oppo. at 1698-175lb from 1996-2001.

[Tyler Durden]

DM had legit power though, yes?
Moreso than any of RJJ's oppo. at 1698-175lb from 1996-2001.

Griffen hurt DM.

[Double L]

You asked who applied pressure, I told you. Of course Toney and the other are different fighters, ALL fighters are different fighters :notallthere:

So it's funny Toney has a chin, head movement and short punches on inside fighting? It's your list of attributes you are laughing at :dunno:

Hopkin's pressured Roy too, but I just went before prime :doh:

You are telling me to compare a pressure fighter and how he did against Roy when he was shot and MUCH slower :rolleyes: Laugh it up, but take a GOOD look in the mirror.....

dude, none of those guys listed executed a fight plan anywhere close to the one Johnson did. that's why i'm laughing. your examples prove nothing - not even a hint of proof - that RJJ would've done to Johnson in his prime what he managed to do to the likes of Toney, Hill and Brannon. that's why i'm laughing.

the question isn't whether or not a fighter like Johnson, with his gameplan, existed as of RJJ's prime - it's whether or not RJJ could've dealt easily with one if he did.

and Hopkins? he didn't apply any pressure when he faced RJJ. he stayed back and tried to counter and frankly fought like Telesco with a little better timing and defense. but comparable to Johnson? not in the slightest.

[Tyler Durden]

dude, none of those guys listed executed a fight plan anywhere close to the one Johnson did. that's why i'm laughing. your examples prove nothing - not even a hint of proof - that RJJ would've done to Johnson in his prime what he managed to do to the likes of Toney, Hill and Brannon. that's why i'm laughing.

the question isn't whether or not a fighter like Johnson, with his gameplan, existed as of RJJ's prime - it's whether or not RJJ could've dealt easily with one if he did.

and Hopkins? he didn't apply any pressure when he faced RJJ. he stayed back and tried to counter and frankly fought like Telesco with a little better timing and defense. but comparable to Johnson? not in the slightest.

Comparing Roy @ 175 in his late thirties after a couple months from a KO, to his prime @ 168, do I need to elaborate any further at Johnsons' "gameplan" :lol: If Roy fought Johnson like he was capable in his prime, he would have changed his gameplan.

So Roy and Hopkins stayed in the middle of the ring huh? Hopkins fought like Telesco :doh:

You see what I mean? Reserve those smilies for yourself :nono:

[ArturoGatti]

Nigel Benn would have fucked him up, but RJJr. ran like a scared girl.

[Double L]

Comparing Roy @ 175 in his late thirties after a couple months from a KO, to his prime @ 168, do I need to elaborate any further at Johnsons' "gameplan" :lol: If Roy fought Johnson like he was capable in his prime, he would have changed his gameplan.

So Roy and Hopkins stayed in the middle of the ring huh? Hopkins fought like Telesco :doh:

You see what I mean? Reserve those smilies for yourself :nono:

i don't know if it's me, or you, or the combination of the two, but i'm having a hard time communicating with you. from my viewpoint, it would seem you don't understand the argument i'm making one iota.

are you saying that against a 168 pound prime RJJ (the invincible one) that nobody could've executed the game-plan that Johnson did in their fight at 175? if so, i disagree. like i said, such a gameplan (the one Johnson executed) requires guts, skill, durability and endurance. i don't think it's reasonable to suggest that nobody at 168 in the mid-nineties could've possibly possessed those attributes. do you?

and you can make fun of my comparing hopkins to telesco - it is a bit silly considering that even a majorly green hopkins was a far superior fighter to telesco - but the point is still valid which is that hopkins was entirely intimidated by RJJ's speed and as a result applied little in the way of pressure (see Hopkins/Taylor for a repeat performance).

[Tyler Durden]

i don't know if it's me, or you, or the combination of the two, but i'm having a hard time communicating with you. from my viewpoint, it would seem you don't understand the argument i'm making one iota.

are you saying that against a 168 pound prime RJJ (the invincible one) that nobody could've executed the game-plan that Johnson did in their fight at 175? if so, i disagree. like i said, such a gameplan (the one Johnson executed) requires guts, skill, durability and endurance. i don't think it's reasonable to suggest that nobody at 168 in the mid-nineties could've possibly possessed those attributes. do you?

and you can make fun of my comparing hopkins to telesco - it is a bit silly considering that even a majorly green hopkins was a far superior fighter to telesco - but the point is still valid which is that hopkins was entirely intimidated by RJJ's speed and as a result applied little in the way of pressure (see Hopkins/Taylor for a repeat performance).

I am saying no one could execute the same game plan and expect the SAME results given Roy was not the same fighter :dunno:

I see your point is valid when argueing your point, but not valid when someone uses another fighter that is against your argument :dunno:

[uppercutz1]

Pointing to the Johnson fight is stupid given this thread's question. I can think of a bunch of fighters with various styles that would've given Roy fits on that particular night.


He was a dead man walking....zero energy, little resiliance and no legs whatsoever.

[uppercutz1]

With respect to the question, no one had Roy's aura.....yes Tyson was a monster for awhile but Jones performed at the highest level for 14 years....fricken unbelievable.

[Buddy Rydell]

Nigel Benn would have fucked him up, but RJJr. ran like a scared girl.

Benn himself said that he asked for too much money and was glad he didn't fight Roy. Of course, he said this about 10 or so years ago, so you were probably learning Grade 5. Roy never ran from Benn. Slap yourself for saying something this stupid. :lol:

While Benn was busy getting a loss and a draw with Chris Eubank, Roy was fighting Hopkins, Toney, and Thomas Tate, a much better fighter than people realized but one who Roy made look like shit. :dunno:

[Buddy Rydell]

i don't know if it's me, or you, or the combination of the two, but i'm having a hard time communicating with you. from my viewpoint, it would seem you don't understand the argument i'm making one iota.

are you saying that against a 168 pound prime RJJ (the invincible one) that nobody could've executed the game-plan that Johnson did in their fight at 175? if so, i disagree. like i said, such a gameplan (the one Johnson executed) requires guts, skill, durability and endurance. i don't think it's reasonable to suggest that nobody at 168 in the mid-nineties could've possibly possessed those attributes. do you?

and you can make fun of my comparing hopkins to telesco - it is a bit silly considering that even a majorly green hopkins was a far superior fighter to telesco - but the point is still valid which is that hopkins was entirely intimidated by RJJ's speed and as a result applied little in the way of pressure (see Hopkins/Taylor for a repeat performance).

Toney was the best of the crop at 168. He was better than Eubank and better than Benn. In fact, he called both of them out in an interview where he said that one guy's mama had 4 titties and the other guy's mama looked like Nessie - The Loch Ness Monster. Maybe you don't remember Don King's middleweight tournament? :lol:

[Double L]

Pointing to the Johnson fight is stupid given this thread's question. I can think of a bunch of fighters with various styles that would've given Roy fits on that particular night.


He was a dead man walking....zero energy, little resiliance and no legs whatsoever.

this is what irks me - the impression so many have that all Johnson did was storm forward throwing punches. he didn't. he did a lot of subtle things in that fight. he never crowded himself, yet he stayed close, he "bounced" on his feet side to side and moved his head even as he stood inches from RJJ, kept his punches short, went to the body with great discipline, and that's not to mention the toughness he showed in not relenting even in the face of some stinging counters and getting hit with some shots he didn't see.

people act like he won that fight with no particular plan. and the idea that RJJ was a dead man walking? only to go on and beat anthony thompson? an undefeated olympian who'd won a 168 tournament?

it's bull-shit.

Johnson employed a strategy that no fighter had ever before employed against RJJ and it worked - not only did he knock RJJ ouit, but he won round after round. this distinguishes it from Tarver's initial win over RJJ - and his first fight with RJJ in which he lost at least half the rounds.

i'm not saying Johnson beats a prime RJJ with that same strategy - but what I am saying is that past his prime or not, RJJ's inability to cope with Johnson's style suggests that even in his prime, RJJ would've had his hands full against such an opponent.

and this supposedly dead man walking, i'll also point out, still has blazing quick hands and combos, and obviously really good punching power. so the things that have diminished for RJJ wouldn't necessarily have been key anyways in combating a strategy like Johnson's. maybe he doesn't get knocked out. and maybe he gets off more. but he's still got a guy inches away, not crowding himself, throwing short punches high and low, moving his head, and stepping side to side. that will and always would've trouble RJJ big time. if RJJ couldn't initimidate youwith his speed, it becomes a battle of wills. not so sure he would've won all such battles. in fact, my bet would've been he would not.

[Buddy Rydell]

Sosa wasn't that good of a fighter to begin with, so the use of him as an example to demonstrate how Jones handles pressure doesn't mean much...but even using him, the fight was stopped prematurely. If the point is how well Jones does against pressure fighters, less than two full rounds doesn't prove much (unless you think he gets quick stoppages over every pressure fighter in history).

Prince Charles Williams found him to be a pretty decent fighter. Tough enough to get them both stopped in a hellacious battle.

[mikE]

Toney was the best of the crop at 168. He was better than Eubank and better than Benn. In fact, he called both of them out in an interview where he said that one guy's mama had 4 titties and the other guy's mama looked like Nessie - The Loch Ness Monster. Maybe you don't remember Don King's middleweight tournament? :lol:

Why should Toney have had to prove he was the best of the crop, he has your endorsement.

And glad you take Toney's drivel as gospel. You're probably the only one left.

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

Nigel Benn would have fucked him up, but RJJr. ran like a scared girl.Your boy was the one running.

[Double L]

Toney was the best of the crop at 168. He was better than Eubank and better than Benn. In fact, he called both of them out in an interview where he said that one guy's mama had 4 titties and the other guy's mama looked like Nessie - The Loch Ness Monster. Maybe you don't remember Don King's middleweight tournament? :lol:

wtf does this have to do with any of the points i'm making? styles make fights. not who HBO tells you is a better fighter.

[Buddy Rydell]

Why should Toney have had to prove he was the best of the crop, he has your endorsement.

And glad you take Toney's drivel as gospel. You're probably the only one left.

Who was better than Toney at 168 until Jones came along? Seriously. If you can't look at his resumé and realize it is as good as anybody's around that weight over the last 20 years, then I don't know what to say to you.

As for taking Toney's "drivel" as gospel, are you on crack? Toney was a showman, but he was willing to fight anybody and everybody.

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

this is what irks me - the impression so many have that all Johnson did was storm forward throwing punches. he didn't. he did a lot of subtle things in that fight. he never crowded himself, yet he stayed close, he "bounced" on his feet side to side and moved his head even as he stood inches from RJJ, kept his punches short, went to the body with great discipline, and that's not to mention the toughness he showed in not relenting even in the face of some stinging counters and getting hit with some shots he didn't see.

people act like he won that fight with no particular plan. and the idea that RJJ was a dead man walking? only to go on and beat anthony thompson? an undefeated olympian who'd won a 168 tournament?

it's bull-shit.

Johnson employed a strategy that no fighter had ever before employed against RJJ and it worked - not only did he knock RJJ ouit, but he won round after round. this distinguishes it from Tarver's initial win over RJJ - and his first fight with RJJ in which he lost at least half the rounds.

i'm not saying Johnson beats a prime RJJ with that same strategy - but what I am saying is that past his prime or not, RJJ's inability to cope with Johnson's style suggests that even in his prime, RJJ would've had his hands full against such an opponent.

and this supposedly dead man walking, i'll also point out, still has blazing quick hands and combos, and obviously really good punching power. so the things that have diminished for RJJ wouldn't necessarily have been key anyways in combating a strategy like Johnson's. maybe he doesn't get knocked out. and maybe he gets off more. but he's still got a guy inches away, not crowding himself, throwing short punches high and low, moving his head, and stepping side to side. that will and always would've trouble RJJ big time. if RJJ couldn't initimidate youwith his speed, it becomes a battle of wills. not so sure he would've won all such battles. in fact, my bet would've been he would not.
Coming off the brutal KO loss to Tarver just 4 Months earlier Roy was a dead man walking that night. In his prime he would have pot shotted Johnson from centre ring and showed up how slow Johnson is. Look how Tarver used speed and angles to beat Johnson in the rematch. Your hate really leaves you blinded.

[Double L]

Prince Charles Williams found him to be a pretty decent fighter. Tough enough to get them both stopped in a hellacious battle.

again - complete disregard for the reality that styles make fights. i know it's a cliche. but with posts like this looming about, i see that it can't be repeated too many times.

[Double L]

Julian Jackson out-boxed Tate. It was impressive though that RJJ was able to stop him - Tate had a good chin for sure.

[ElTerriblee]

Montell Griffin. :dunno:

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

again - complete disregard for the reality that styles make fights. i know it's a cliche. but with posts like this looming about, i see that it can't be repeated too many times.Yeah they make fights and Roys style ate up pressure fighters. He had trouble with counter punchers with good defence. Johnson isn't a counter puncher he has little defence and has average speed.

[mikE]

Who was better than Toney at 168 until Jones came along? Seriously. If you can't look at his resumé and realize it is as good as anybody's around that weight over the last 20 years, then I don't know what to say to you.

As for taking Toney's "drivel" as gospel, are you on crack? Toney was a showman, but he was willing to fight anybody and everybody.

Toney was always full of shit and anyone with your mentality on the guy must have been going A Clockwork Orange with the HBO Barkley commentary.

Toney may have been the best at 168, but I doubt it. Eubank, Benn, Liles, Collins, Calz all may have been better.

Funny how he blames weight for his Jones loss and yet at 175 became a loss machine. And at 160, he was far from unbeatable. You have to play an imaginary game to make Toney so great at 168. I don't.

[Buddy Rydell]

again - complete disregard for the reality that styles make fights. i know it's a cliche. but with posts like this looming about, i see that it can't be repeated too many times.

Sorry, DoubleL, but you think Hopkins fights like Telesco. You are not allowed to post in this topic any longer. :lol:

[Mitchell Kane]

Prince Charles Williams found him to be a pretty decent fighter. Tough enough to get them both stopped in a hellacious battle.

You've proven to be a regular ring historian in this thread.

Seriously, I wasn't aware they ever fought.

[Buddy Rydell]

Julian Jackson out-boxed Tate. It was impressive though that RJJ was able to stop him - Tate had a good chin for sure.

Did you see that fight? Tate's chin held up, but Jackson wasn't the type to outbox anyone. :eek:

[Double L]

Yeah they make fights and Roys style ate up pressure fighters. He had trouble with counter punchers with good defence. Johnson isn't a counter puncher he has little defence and has average speed.

not that you're obligated in any way to do so, or that i have any expectation that you would, but have you read any of my posts regarding the topic of pressure fighters?

in this very thread we've had people point to Sosa as evidence that RJJ eats up pressure fighters. do you think that's fair?

and besides that, do you think Johnson, especially the night of the RJJ fight, is nothing more than a pressure fighter? he beat RJJ with a lot more than pressure. that's my point.

and even if we concede that Johnson is nothing but a pressure fighter (which isn't true but for the sake of the argument let's say he is), your argument then implies that all pressure fighters are created equal. now we "know" this isn't true.

some of the best fighters in the world, some of the most dominant ones ever have been labelled as pressure fighters, and yet, as we all know, some of the worst fighters have also been labelled pressure fighters.

it's silly to say that a particular style, in and of itself, can beat RJJ. i never said that. what i did say is that a highly skilled application of pressure, with care taken in the areaa of head movement, punch selection, distance and side to side movement will give RJJ fits.

and as to your statement regarding counter punchers, i've never seen RJJ lose a battle of counters. counter punchers by nature will always make fights close and are rarely dominated. and few fighters don't struggle to shine against counter punchers (taylor/spinks anyone?). Taylor clearly won that fight, but he didn't dominate, didn't look good, and obviously had "trouble" with him.

[Buddy Rydell]

Toney was always full of shit and anyone with your mentality on the guy must have been going A Clockwork Orange with the HBO Barkley commentary.

Toney may have been the best at 168, but I doubt it. Eubank, Benn, Liles, Collins, Calz all may have been better.

Funny how he blames weight for his Jones loss and yet at 175 became a loss machine. And at 160, he was far from unbeatable. You have to play an imaginary game to make Toney so great at 168. I don't.

So for one, you think Eubank, Benn, and Liles were better? You'd be in an extreme minority on that one. Calzaghe NOW perhaps, and Collins maybe although that would be debateable. Regarding comparable opposition, Collins lost to McCallum and Reggie Johnson, but Toney beat them. Collins MIGHT have been as good as Toney, but he didn't show it in head to head competition at 160 or 168.

[Buddy Rydell]

You have to play an imaginary game to make Toney so great at 168. I don't.

Well, I guess the people at KO and Ring Magazine at that time were playing this imaginary game you speak of, dude. Good thing we have seasoned journalists like yourself keeping it real. :lol:

[Buddy Rydell]

You've proven to be a regular ring historian in this thread.

Seriously, I wasn't aware they ever fought.

They did. TWICE. If you didn't know that they had a couple of good bouts back over 10 years ago, then you weren't watching back then. I was.:dunno:

[Buddy Rydell]

wtf does this have to do with any of the points i'm making? styles make fights. not who HBO tells you is a better fighter.

It had everything to do with the points you were making.

You said "are you saying that against a 168 pound prime RJJ (the invincible one) that nobody could've executed the game-plan that Johnson did in their fight at 175? if so, i disagree. like i said, such a gameplan (the one Johnson executed) requires guts, skill, durability and endurance. i don't think it's reasonable to suggest that nobody at 168 in the mid-nineties could've possibly possessed those attributes. do you?"

In response I said that Toney was the cream of the crop. If you're having trouble understanding, then I will make it simpler for you: Toney was known as the most complete 168lber at that time. Out of anybody at that time, Toney had the best shot at executing a gameplan that required guts, skill, durability, and endurance. The second likeliest would have been Mike McCallum, but Toney and Jones were widely considered the best in and around middleweight/supermiddleweight.

That's why I referenced Don King's middleweight tourney. Those two, Jones and Toney, were the only two not in it and that is because they weren't going to stay under lock and key to Don King (who had long contracts which amounted to servitude at the time).

If you don't remember this stuff or you weren't watching at the time, then read a book or magazine from that era because it was referenced a number of times by people a lot more knowledgeable about boxing than either of us.

Back to the point, Toney was the likeliest to implement the gameplan you said had never been tried before. Jones boxed him silly. Jones literally toyed with Toney just before sending him flying across the ring, and then proceeding to win pretty much every round. There was NOBODY at 168 who could do that plan you mentioned any better than Toney.

[Punk]

If Roy had fought Kunga Kelly when Kelly was prime, he would have been in serious trouble.

[Tam Tam]

Toney was a plodder, who was never much good on the front foot. If you actually believe he was 'the guy' who oculd have best implemented a plan of aggression and front foot pressure, I would have to believe you've either never seen James fight before...OR, you have him confused with a versatile fighter, adept at all forms of offense.

Toney was MADE for Jones. It was apparent before, during and after and his time @ 168 (where he beat up how many other top 168 pounders by the way?) was a farce. He made his bones @ 160 and that hangover carried on for the next 7 or so years, where he won ZERO important fights, until he beat Jirov.

Supremely talented on the backfoot and could see everything coming. But is easily one of the most overrated fighters in history. Guys like him, who are bigger than life and show all the natural ability, almost always are.

[Double L]

It had everything to do with the points you were making.

You said "are you saying that against a 168 pound prime RJJ (the invincible one) that nobody could've executed the game-plan that Johnson did in their fight at 175? if so, i disagree. like i said, such a gameplan (the one Johnson executed) requires guts, skill, durability and endurance. i don't think it's reasonable to suggest that nobody at 168 in the mid-nineties could've possibly possessed those attributes. do you?"

In response I said that Toney was the cream of the crop. If you're having trouble understanding, then I will make it simpler for you: Toney was known as the most complete 168lber at that time. Out of anybody at that time, Toney had the best shot at executing a gameplan that required guts, skill, durability, and endurance. The second likeliest would have been Mike McCallum, but Toney and Jones were widely considered the best in and around middleweight/supermiddleweight.

That's why I referenced Don King's middleweight tourney. Those two, Jones and Toney, were the only two not in it and that is because they weren't going to stay under lock and key to Don King (who had long contracts which amounted to servitude at the time).

If you don't remember this stuff or you weren't watching at the time, then read a book or magazine from that era because it was referenced a number of times by people a lot more knowledgeable about boxing than either of us.

Back to the point, Toney was the likeliest to implement the gameplan you said had never been tried before. Jones boxed him silly. Jones literally toyed with Toney just before sending him flying across the ring, and then proceeding to win pretty much every round. There was NOBODY at 168 who could do that plan you mentioned any better than Toney.

Toney's never fought a fight in his life with the style that Johnson employed against RJJ. That's what you're failing to recognize whether you want to believe it or not.

[Double L]

Toney was a plodder, who was never much good on the front foot. If you actually believe he was 'the guy' who oculd have best implemented a plan of aggression and front foot pressure, I would have to believe you've either never seen James fight before...OR, you have him confused with a versatile fighter, adept at all forms of offense.

Toney was MADE for Jones. It was apparent before, during and after and his time @ 168 (where he beat up how many other top 168 pounders by the way?) was a farce. He made his bones @ 160 and that hangover carried on for the next 7 or so years, where he won ZERO important fights, until he beat Jirov.

Supremely talented on the backfoot and could see everything coming. But is easily one of the most overrated fighters in history. Guys like him, who are bigger than life and show all the natural ability, almost always are.

thank you. couldn't (didn't) say it better myself.

[StingerKarl]

Well nobody was invincible. Obviously a guy like Foster has a shot at beating Roy with his one punch punch power.

In Roys prime counter punchers gave Roy the most trouble im not sure what great counter punchers there were in the sport 20 years ago. Who knows if Tarver could have beat Roy in his prime, but he would have given him some problems style wise something i don't think Glen Johnson would have done.

As much as I admired Roy as a fighter, Bobby Foster would have murdered him, and it wouldn't have taken him very long, either.

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

not that you're obligated in any way to do so, or that i have any expectation that you would, but have you read any of my posts regarding the topic of pressure fighters?

in this very thread we've had people point to Sosa as evidence that RJJ eats up pressure fighters. do you think that's fair?

and besides that, do you think Johnson, especially the night of the RJJ fight, is nothing more than a pressure fighter? he beat RJJ with a lot more than pressure. that's my point.

and even if we concede that Johnson is nothing but a pressure fighter (which isn't true but for the sake of the argument let's say he is), your argument then implies that all pressure fighters are created equal. now we "know" this isn't true.

some of the best fighters in the world, some of the most dominant ones ever have been labelled as pressure fighters, and yet, as we all know, some of the worst fighters have also been labelled pressure fighters.

it's silly to say that a particular style, in and of itself, can beat RJJ. i never said that. what i did say is that a highly skilled application of pressure, with care taken in the areaa of head movement, punch selection, distance and side to side movement will give RJJ fits.

and as to your statement regarding counter punchers, i've never seen RJJ lose a battle of counters. counter punchers by nature will always make fights close and are rarely dominated. and few fighters don't struggle to shine against counter punchers (taylor/spinks anyone?). Taylor clearly won that fight, but he didn't dominate, didn't look good, and obviously had "trouble" with him.In Roys prime his toughest fights were with Griffen and Harding. Guess what they are counter punchers with good defence. No pressure fighter gave Roy problems they got straight up beatdown.

[Buddy Rydell]

Toney was a plodder, who was never much good on the front foot. If you actually believe he was 'the guy' who oculd have best implemented a plan of aggression and front foot pressure, I would have to believe you've either never seen James fight before...OR, you have him confused with a versatile fighter, adept at all forms of offense.

Toney was MADE for Jones. It was apparent before, during and after and his time @ 168 (where he beat up how many other top 168 pounders by the way?) was a farce. He made his bones @ 160 and that hangover carried on for the next 7 or so years, where he won ZERO important fights, until he beat Jirov.

Supremely talented on the backfoot and could see everything coming. But is easily one of the most overrated fighters in history. Guys like him, who are bigger than life and show all the natural ability, almost always are.

Toney had something like 10 wins from the time he beat Barkley until he lost to Jones. He beat Barkley in a good scrap against a then-dangerous puncher, and he dusted off respectable fringe contenders like Thornton, Glenn Thomas, Hembrick, undefeated Tim Littles (in a bout where he had a bad cut from a headbutt) who he BLASTED out in 4, and the lightheavyweight champ Prince Charles Williams who moved down in weight against the smaller Toney. Take Toney's name out of there, and those wins would look good on any contender's resumé back in the day. Heck, he fought around 10 guys in two years, and he wasn't an up-and-comer barnstorming against heavybags. All the guys he fought were top ten guys by the IBF at that time, so you tack that on someone else and it looks like good competition at a fast pace. You're definitely right about one thing though, Toney also quality wins over guys at middleweight as well.

[uppercutz1]

again - complete disregard for the reality that styles make fights. i know it's a cliche. but with posts like this looming about, i see that it can't be repeated too many times.

You're completely missing my point Double...

One CANNOT draw inference on what Roy couldle or could not handle from that fight in Memphis.....he was a walking CORPSE against Glen and had no business being in the ring that particular night.

Some say he didn't train(apparently only 1 week due to Hurrican Ivan), some say he was still suffering from a concussion (actually you'll notice Roy blinking his eyes frequently after rd 5)....whatever the point was Roy stood flat foot from ROUND 1. He didn't want to be there and Glen knew it....that's why he stuck on him. Glen isn't a skilled fighter by any means.....the man has no counter punching repetoire......watch the fight and notice how he just covered up whenever Roy threw no matter how sporadic it was.....that characterstic would be suicide against a prime Roy who could & would continually keep Glen on the defensive with punches from all angles (as he often did during his prime)....hell even if Roy had some legs that night he would've danced around Glen's plodding. Remember this is the same Johnson who'd been fighting tooth and nail with the rather ordinary Clinton Woods....and no it's not a difference of styles but rather the fact that Clinton actually offered resistance. Point is it was easy to look good against Roy that night because he stunk.

This reminds of when Kevin Mchale was asked about comparing the brash Chuck Person to Larry Bird (who dueled in the early ninetes playoffs) to which he replied: "I see Chuck's prime and saw Larry's prime and Chuck better thank god he didn't meet Larry in his prime because he really would've gotten his ass kicked."

[Mitchell Kane]

They did. TWICE. If you didn't know that they had a couple of good bouts back over 10 years ago, then you weren't watching back then. I was.:dunno:

I'm aware, but thanks for the history lesson.

[Buddy Rydell]

Toney's never fought a fight in his life with the style that Johnson employed against RJJ. That's what you're failing to recognize whether you want to believe it or not.

Are you retarded? I said he was the likeliest to employ that style against Roy back at that time. But then again, just to prove you wrong, if you think that Toney didn't employ guts, durability, endurance, and pressure against Prince Charles Williams, then you're definitely smoking something.

Prince Charles held the lightheavy title for 5 years, then lost in Germany to Henry Maske, and then came back with three straight knockouts just before moving down to face Toney, the consensus supermiddleweight champ at that time.

Williams was a dangerous fighter, and Toney applied great pressure, endurance, and guts while methodically chopping down Williams in a 12th round KO. THAT is one of the main reasons why some picked Toney to beat Jones in Toney's next fight. He looked so damn impressive in his previous fight that many believed he would again persevere. You're failing to recognize just about everything going on at that time.

[joemul]

I know someone who thought he was beatable.

Himself.


Great shout.

It's sad, because i really think Roy could've put this hypothetical question beyond doubt during his career.

[Buddy Rydell]

I'm aware, but thanks for the history lesson.

My pleasure. :lol:

[Tam Tam]

Are you retarded? I said he was the likeliest to employ that style against Roy back at that time. But then again, just to prove you wrong, if you think that Toney didn't employ guts, durability, endurance, and pressure against Prince Charles Williams, then you're definitely smoking something.

Prince Charles held the lightheavy title for 5 years, then lost in Germany to Henry Maske, and then came back with three straight knockouts just before moving down to face Toney, the consensus supermiddleweight champ at that time.

Williams was a dangerous fighter, and Toney applied great pressure, endurance, and guts while methodically chopping down Williams in a 12th round KO. THAT is one of the main reasons why some picked Toney to beat Jones in Toney's next fight. He looked so damn impressive in his previous fight that many believed he would again persevere. You're failing to recognize just about everything going on at that time.
:lol: All Toney did vs. THAT weight drained version of Williams, was lay on the ropes for most of the fight and counterpunch, inside with the weak PCW.

It was a similar fight to his contest with Jirov. It featuered lots of action, but Toney was hardly on the front foot. He sat and waited, like he almost always did.

[Buddy Rydell]

:lol: All Toney did vs. THAT weight drained version of Williams, was lay on the ropes for most of the fight and counterpunch, inside with the weak PCW.

It was a similar fight to his contest with Jirov. It featuered lots of action, but Toney was hardly on the front foot. He sat and waited, like he almost always did.

They leaned on each other and dug away at each other's body for the majority of that fight. In Toney's own words, he "took those old legs out from underneath Williams". Williams himself said he made 168 easy and that he did so by not drinking pop. He used to drink 8-10 cans of pop a day, and he quit drinking it while he trained for that fight. I guess it's true: Coke Adds Life. :lol:

Yeah, Prince Charles was weak. That's why he held his belt for five years and beat Czyz twice, by being weak. I guess all those wins were weak too. :lol: :lol:

[Tam Tam]

They leaned on each other and dug away at each other's body for the majority of that fight. In Toney's own words, he "took those old legs out from underneath Williams". Williams himself said he made 168 easy and that he did so by not drinking pop. He used to drink 8-10 cans of pop a day, and he quit drinking it while he trained for that fight. I guess it's true: Coke Adds Life. :lol:

Yeah, Prince Charles was weak. That's why he held his belt for five years and beat Czyz twice, by being weak. I guess all those wins were weak too. :lol: :lol:
Physically weak, captain emoticon. :bears: :cheer: :blobbox: :kick: :popcorn:

[Buddy Rydell]

Physically weak, captain emoticon. :bears: :cheer: :blobbox: :kick: :popcorn:

Captain Emoticon says: 14 of Williams' last 16 fights before facing Toney, Williams won by knockout. The only thing weak here is your thought process. :lol:

[Roll With The Punches]

yeh

invincible :rolleyes:

like the first Griffin fight showed :notallthere:

[ArturoGatti]

Benn himself said that he asked for too much money and was glad he didn't fight Roy. Of course, he said this about 10 or so years ago, so you were probably learning Grade 5. Roy never ran from Benn. Slap yourself for saying something this stupid. :lol:

While Benn was busy getting a loss and a draw with Chris Eubank, Roy was fighting Hopkins, Toney, and Thomas Tate, a much better fighter than people realized but one who Roy made look like shit. :dunno:Benn would have sent him home ina BODY BAG.

But your little hero ran like a little bitch.

And Benn did not say that 10 years ago, he said it this year. Benn has become a tree hugger lately, so he is saying stupid things.

[Joe King]

Double L and Cuban Hawk are still talking about Roy?:laughing:

[meetthefeebles]

Benn would have sent him home ina BODY BAG.

But your little hero ran like a little bitch.

And Benn did not say that 10 years ago, he said it this year. Benn has become a tree hugger lately, so he is saying stupid things.

This part is right- Benn was apparently offered 10 million bucks to fight RJJ after he near KILLED McClellan and he said no- he wanted 25 million.

The rest of this post is fucking stupid.

McClellan, possibly the hardest hitting 160lber ever, could not KO Benn, let alone put him in a body bag. How come RJJ does then?

RJJ was the boy, no doubt, at 168 in the early-mid 90's, but to say that Benn ran like a bitch is also BS. Who, except RJJ, did he run from?

Put it this way. Is there anyone at 160/168 NOW that Benn wouldn't fight? Joe Calzaghe? Kelly Pavlik? Abraham? Kessler?

RJJ at that time was EXCEPTIONAL. No shame at all in not fighting him, IMO. Not unless the rewards, financially, were very, VERY juicy.

To call the man who fought that 'to the death' battle with G-Man 'a little bitch' just doesn't wash IMO. Eubank? Maybe. Watson? Too green (then crippled).

But the Benn of THAT fight gives any 168lber EVER, RJJ included, the night of their life...

MTF

[Joe King]

Benn himself said in a RING magazine that he negotiated to fight Roy but he had no intention to because "he didn't want to end up like Gerald".

[meetthefeebles]

Benn himself said in a RING magazine that he negotiated to fight Roy but he had no intention to because "he didn't want to end up like Gerald".

I am not going to try to deny that Benn ducked RJJ- he did and he said so himself.

This does not. however, mean that he would have went home in a body bag (the Benn from the McClellan fight goes home in a body bag?!?) and nor does it make him 'a little bitch'.

Had he just won the McClellan fight, IMO Benn would have taken the RJJ bout. But anyone who knows anything will know that Benn was shot the second they took Gerald away in an ambulance. all the fight was drained from him...

[Joe King]

I am not going to try to deny that Benn ducked RJJ- he did and he said so himself.

This does not. however, mean that he would have went home in a body bag (the Benn from the McClellan fight goes home in a body bag?!?) and nor does it make him 'a little bitch'.

Had he just won the McClellan fight, IMO Benn would have taken the RJJ bout. But anyone who knows anything will know that Benn was shot the second they took Gerald away in an ambulance. all the fight was drained from him...

I don't think Benn would have been crippled. None of Roy's opponents have been. I do think Roy would have caused a referee's stoppage though, about round 8.

[meetthefeebles]

I don't think Benn would have been crippled. None of Roy's opponents have been. I do think Roy would have caused a referee's stoppage though, about round 8.

Hard to tell.

The normal Benn (i.e. not the one who fought G-man), would have lost in 6 rounds to RJJ at 168 in 1993/94. Benn would have been loading up the bombs, but missing the whole time, and getting hit all night as he came looking for RJJ.

The Benn of the G-Man fight ends up much the same way, but he is un-knockoutable and last the 12 to lose a lopsided decision after given RJJ more clips than anyone else managed, but still no-where near enough.

For the record, 1993/94 RJJ is the ONLY 168lb-er who even lasts the 12 with the Benn who fought G-Man, IMO. The Benn of that night was a man possessed by demons, and was impossible to keep down. That I say RJJ beats him with ease shows the high regard I hold that version of Jones in...

MTF

[Jake]

Roy would've eventually boxed Nigel's ears off (perhaps literally), but I was always curious to see how Roy would've contended with his roughhousing, particularly as the fight went on. Roy learned to deal with most styles, but not sure I've seen Roy in the fight against someone like Nigel (not the caliber, but his style and all of the intangibles).

A Roy-Eubank fight never interested me. I thought it'd be one-sided regardless (big difference between MW Eubank and the SMW/post-Watson II version), but also had the chance to be a momumental stinker due to Eubank's posing and mocking, and Roy's liekly willingness to allow nothing to happen as a result.

[meetthefeebles]

Roy would've eventually boxed Nigel's ears off (perhaps literally), but I was always curious to see how Roy would've contended with his roughhousing, particularly as the fight went on. Roy learned to deal with most styles, but not sure I've seen Roy in the fight against someone like Nigel (not the caliber, but his style and all of the intangibles).

A Roy-Eubank fight never interested me. I thought it'd be one-sided regardless (big difference between MW Eubank and the SMW/post-Watson II version), but also had the chance to be a momumental stinker due to Eubank's posing and mocking, and Roy's liekly willingness to allow nothing to happen as a result.

110% correct, and oft overlooked

Eubank up to Watson II was a deadly KO puncher., who let the shots go naturally and fluently whenever possible.. But the Watson tragedy affected him terribly and he turned to posing and preening and carrying guys for 12 rounds wherever and whenever possible (even against Been in their second fight, whom he hated, he did not have the ferocity of the first)

MTF

[ArturoGatti]

This part is right- Benn was apparently offered 10 million bucks to fight RJJ after he near KILLED McClellan and he said no- he wanted 25 million.

The rest of this post is fucking stupid.

McClellan, possibly the hardest hitting 160lber ever, could not KO Benn, let alone put him in a body bag. How come RJJ does then?

RJJ was the boy, no doubt, at 168 in the early-mid 90's, but to say that Benn ran like a bitch is also BS. Who, except RJJ, did he run from?

Put it this way. Is there anyone at 160/168 NOW that Benn wouldn't fight? Joe Calzaghe? Kelly Pavlik? Abraham? Kessler?

RJJ at that time was EXCEPTIONAL. No shame at all in not fighting him, IMO. Not unless the rewards, financially, were very, VERY juicy.

To call the man who fought that 'to the death' battle with G-Man 'a little bitch' just doesn't wash IMO. Eubank? Maybe. Watson? Too green (then crippled).

But the Benn of THAT fight gives any 168lber EVER, RJJ included, the night of their life...

MTF:doh:

Read my post AGAIN. please.

[meetthefeebles]

:doh:

Read my post AGAIN. please.

Sure, I just did

You said:

1. Benn ran from RJJ (agreed)

2. In doing so, Benn was 'a little bitch'

3. Had Benn not been 'a little bitch', he would have been KILLED (Body bag) by RJJ

4. Benn now hugs trees and says silly things

NOW, if you want me to now take your original post as sarcasm whilst relying on point 4, that's fine :lol:

But I don't think anyone else would have interpreted it that way either bud...

MTF

[ArturoGatti]

Sure, I just did

You said:

1. Benn ran from RJJ (agreed)

2. In doing so, Benn was 'a little bitch'

3. Had Benn not been 'a little bitch', he would have been KILLED (Body bag) by RJJ

4. Benn now hugs trees and says silly things

NOW, if you want me to now take your original post as sarcasm whilst relying on point 4, that's fine :lol:

But I don't think anyone else would have interpreted it that way either bud...

MTF:doh:

You HAVE TO BE FUCKING JOKING ME right now, right? :dunno:

I said that RJJ ran from Benn, and that RJJ was a little bitch, and that NIGEL BENN WOULD HAVE SENT RJJ home in a body bag.

Put down the Newcastle Ale, go to bed, and then read my post again tomorow.

[meetthefeebles]

:doh:

You HAVE TO BE FUCKING JOKING ME right now, right? :dunno:

I said that RJJ ran from Benn, and that RJJ was a little bitch, and that NIGEL BENN WOULD HAVE SENT RJJ home in a body bag.

Put down the Newcastle Ale, go to bed, and then read my post again tomorow.

Of course I am...:laughing:

God, so tetchy. A bloke can't even get hammered nowadays,,, :lol:

[ArturoGatti]

Of course I am...:laughing:

God, so tetchy. A bloke can't even get hammered nowadays,,, :lol::flip:

[meetthefeebles]

:flip:

:tease:

For what it's worth Arturo, Benn wouldn't have beaten RJJ, and I am a MAJOR Benn nuthugger, especially the Benn from the McClellan fight. I was there that night, and what I saw as a 15 year old scared the life out of me.

But he wouldn't have gotten to RJJ IMO. Not the RJJ of 1993/94.

The RJJ of 1997 onwards, however, is a different bagatelle. A prime Benn would have ICED that RJJ..No doubts in my mind at all

[ArturoGatti]

:tease:

For what it's worth Arturo, Benn wouldn't have beaten RJJ, and I am a MAJOR Benn nuthugger, especially the Benn from the McClellan fight. I was there that night, and what I saw as a 15 year old scared the life out of me.

But he wouldn't have gotten to RJJ IMO. Not he RJJ of 1993/94.

The RJJ of 1997 onwards, however, is a different bagatelle. A prime Benn would have ICED that RJJ..No doubts in my mind at allI know, I was just trying to rile up the rj groupies.

[meetthefeebles]

I know, I was just trying to rile up the rj groupies.

A noble cause!!

I'll drink a bottle of 'broon' and toast your success... :lol:

[ArturoGatti]

:lol:


GO TO BED!!!

[D MAN]

I'd favour prime Roy over anyone in his weight class.