THE DAILY PAUL ...

[PetreTG]

Rather than start anymore new threads about Ron Paul , I've decided to start one last thread , this one , on Ron Paul for those of you in here that ARE interested in him or that are on the fence.

It's not for discussion , it's simply to get to know the man and see the people across America ... no matter how few you think they are , that support him.

This thread is closed for posts as it's not for discussion. It's for knowledge.

If you feel strongly about an opposing candidate , I encourage you to start a thread on them and do the same.

For this thread I'm going to step back a few months and post his appearance on Leno. But more importantly is his interaction with the people and what an effect he's having on the hopes and dreams of those people. Drawing crowds that Leno's show has never seen for a candidate ever before.

This is a genuine good soul we're being offered as a candidate. See if you don't agree.

This will give you a chance also to see all "the kooks" he attracts from diverse culture, race and religion (Or not) .

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[Explosivo]

As a lifelong Democrat up to this point....I must say that Ron Paul is the best Presidential candidate by far.

But the moral majority cannot see because of their heads being in their asses.

Just chalk Paul up right there alongside Ross Perot and Ralph Nader as another of the few "Hopes of this Country", that the masses are too stupid to recognize.:notallthere:

[PetreTG]

As a lifelong Democrat up to this point....I must say that Ron Paul is the best Presidential candidate by far.

But the moral majority cannot see because of their heads being in their asses.

Just chalk Paul up right there alongside Ross Perot and Ralph Nader as another of the few "Hopes of this Country", that the masses are too stupid to recognize.:notallthere:

Very true Perot in particular would have gotten our financial mess in order and we'd be the richest country on earth instead of the biggest debtor. :doh:


AND NOW ...

Thread closed for Daily Paul updates only ... (Unless we get a lot of crying about it) Then again , complainers can always start a thread bashing him or anything posted her if they want.

This thread I'd like to remain UN convoluted.

[PetreTG]

And now for something completely new

This is the 1/2 hour special that will be broadcast throughout IOWA this weekend .

:popcorn:

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[PetreTG]

EXPERIMENT FAILED - One thread is too much to ask.

The NAYS have it , the playground is open and the well will run dry.

Have at it kiddies ...

The mob RULES ! :clap:

There can be no Daily Paul :cool:

Have a Merry Christmas!

[Trplsec]

EXPERIMENT FAILED - One thread is too much to ask.

The NAYS have it , the playground is open and the well will run dry.

Have at it kiddies ...

The mob RULES ! :clap:

There can be no Daily Paul :cool:

Have a Merry Christmas!


Sure there can be a "Daily Paul" but do it with the knowledge that there will be opposing views and open, forum-like discussion about what you post.

[PetreTG]

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[Trplsec]

It strikes me that the biggest gaps between Paul and the other Republicans is the stances on getting out of Iraq and intervention being a big part of our foreign policy.

While I like much of Paul's game, I am not real sure about how we leave Iraq. I don't think we can cut and run as Paul advocates, but I'm also not sure there will ever be a sense of stability in Iraq that opens a window for removing troops.

On foreign policy, I'll admit I haven't made up my mind yet. I hear the term isolationism bounced around and I think it's a created "scare phrase" by other Republicans. In this day and age I think it is impossible to be completely isolated as in the McCain example of the US during NAZI Germany. The world is different and information is too free flowing to ever be that isolated again.

However, the real meat of the issue is troops stationed around the world. That's where I have the biggest grey area in my support. At times I am on the side of the fence that thinks the presence of US troops on foreign soil does more to damage the world image of the US than it does to help our strategic military positioning around the globe.

The single line that Paul continually uses that makes you feel he is on the right track is "With or without troops abroad, no one will ever do anything militarily against the US". There is much truth to that statement especially if factor in the notion that fewer groups would care to harm the US without troops or missiles in their region.

[Haymaker]

Paul needs to move more around the nation and visit poor places, walk around and go to where he needs to for the votes. Be more agressive, he's too passive to have any impact on people. Seems like his PR office is doing more work than him. He just sits back and hope.

[Anthony]

Paul needs to move more around the nation and visit poor places, walk around and go to where he needs to for the votes. Be more agressive, he's too passive to have any impact on people. Seems like his PR office is doing more work than him. He just sits back and hope.Thats how it will be if he is president too. Just sit back and hope. Thats his slogan. Hope for America. Well you just sit back and hope Dr. Paul.

[PetreTG]

Thats how it will be if he is president too. Just sit back and hope. Thats his slogan. Hope for America. Well you just sit back and hope Dr. Paul.

Rest assured , Dr No would take action ! :blobbox:

[Anthony]

Rest assured , Dr No would take action ! :blobbox:Dr. Paul would do shit and have nothing but a stupid look on his face all day while chatting on my space.

[PetreTG]

Dr. Paul would do shit and have nothing but a stupid look on his face all day while chatting on my space.

The real truth of the matter GF is Ron Paul is the only guy that actually would fight for the people and DO SHIT.

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[Anthony]

The real truth of the matter GF is Ron Paul is the only guy that actually would fight for the people and DO SHIT.


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&nbsp
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/trAiCwzSVho&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></OBJECT>He wont do shit. I heard nothing in that clip. I also could hardly hear weak voice ron because that Damn rocky music was too loud. brb, ima go watch Rocky II.

[PetreTG]

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[Anthony]

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<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NHilf4xibUY&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></OBJECT>A fair tax doesnt mean the same thing, just because that video says it does. Read what it is. He explains exactly what he is pushing, Ron Paul wants to eliminate something and doesnt have a plan to makeup for that. Ron Paul thinks its simple to fix something just like that. He has no plan. </P>
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=5

[PetreTG]

A fair tax doesnt mean the same thing, just because that video says it does. Read what it is. He explains exactly what he is pushing, Ron Paul wants to eliminate something and doesnt have a plan to makeup for that. Ron Paul thinks its simple to fix something just like that. He has no plan.

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=5
Like hell he doesn't.

You know why guys like Hunckleberry will find ways to raise taxes ... because they HAVE TO to pay for the bloated government they refuse to fix. Tell me it won't be as much or more tax when you're paying 20-30% extra on everything you buy.

Paul plan cuts off all the fat and thus doesn't need to raise tax and can actually eliminate taxes.

One thing not a single politician has on Paul is anything to do with econimics. Non bring as much knowledge to the table.

[Anthony]

Like hell he doesn't.

You know why guys like Hunckleberry will find ways to raise taxes ... because they HAVE TO to pay for the bloated government they refuse to fix. Tell me it won't be as much or more tax when you're paying 20-30% extra on everything you buy.

Paul plan cuts off all the fat and thus doesn't need to raise tax and can actually eliminate taxes.

One thing not a single politician has on Paul is anything to do with econimics. Non bring as much knowledge to the table.:lol: :lol: Keep bashing brother. It doesnt even matter. Ron Paul who?

[PetreTG]

October 29, 2007

Ron Paul's Record on Economic Issues


Club for Growth Releases Seventh Presidential White Paper
Ron Paul: The Perfect as the Enemy of the Good


Washington - Today, the Club for Growth released its presidential white paper on Republican presidential candidate Representative Ron Paul (see PDF (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/media/uploads/071029-white-paper-paul.pdf)). The seventh in a series of white papers on the pro-growth records of presidential candidates, the attached report provides an extensive summary of Ron Paul's economic policies during his years in the U.S. House of Representatives.


"Ron Paul's record contains some very laudable components," said Club for Growth President Pat Toomey. "On taxes, regulation, and political speech, his record is superb. His spending record is impressive ...................

Taxes
The Club for Growth is committed to lower taxes-especially lower tax rates- across the board. Lower taxes on work, savings, and investments lead to greater levels of these activities, thus encouraging greater economic growth.

Ron Paul's record on taxes is excellent, epitomized by his rallying cry for phasing out the IRS^{[1 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#1)]}. A strong believer in the economic benefits of tax cuts, he declared in a 2006 article, "I reject the notion that tax cuts harm the economy. The economy suffers when government takes money from your paycheck that you otherwise spend, save, or invest. Taxes never create prosperity."^{[2 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#2)]} Over his career, he has backed up his speeches and articles with many pro-growth votes. These include:

Voted for a resolution proposing a constitutional amendment requiring a two-thirds majority vote in both chambers to raise taxes^{[3 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#3)]}
Voted for a capital gains tax cut^{[4 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#4)]}
Voted for a bill to require Congress to replace the tax code with a simple and fair tax system^{[5 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#5)]}
Voted to cut taxes by $80 billion over five years^{[6 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#6)]}
Voted to override Clinton's veto and repeal the Death Tax^{[7 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#7)]}
Voted to override Clinton's veto and alleviate the marriage penalty^{[8 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#8)]}
Voted to repeal the tax on Social Security benefits^{[9 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#9)]}
Voted for the Bush tax cuts in 2001^{[10 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#10)]} and 2003^{[11 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#11)]}
Voted to permanently repeal the Death Tax^{[12 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#12)]}
Voted to extend the Bush tax cuts^{[13 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#13)]}
Spending
The Club for Growth is committed to reducing government spending. Less spending enhances economic growth by enabling lower taxes and diminishing the economically inefficient political allocation of resources.
Rep. Paul's strong belief in limited government translated into an impressive list of votes against increased federal spending. These include:

Voted against the Medicare Prescription Drug Act^{[14 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#14)]}
Voted for a substitute amendment to balance the budget by 2002 by cutting non-defense discretionary spending and applying the savings to increased tax cuts^{[15 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#15)]}
Voted for an amendment to prohibit the use of appropriated funds for the development of national reading and math tests^{[16 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#16)]}
Voted nine out of nine times against raising his own pay^{[17 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#17)]}
Voted against increased funding for the Legal Services Corporation^{[18 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#18)]}
Voted for the Republican Study Committee budget multiple times^{[19 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#19)]}
Was 1 of 41 congressmen to vote against No Child Left Behind^{[20 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#20)]}
Voted to cut mohair,^{[21 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#21)]} sugar,^{[22 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#22)]} and Viagra subsidies^{[23 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#23)]}
Voted against the subsidy-laden 2002 Farm Bill^{[24 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#24)]}
Voted against the 1998 and 2005 Highway bill, only 1 of 9 to vote against the pork-filled 2005 bill^{[25 (http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php#25)]}

[PetreTG]

Interesting Article from AP
=====================
http://ap.google.com/hostednews/img/ap_logo.gif?hl=en
Paul Shaping Up As Spoiler in GOP Race


By DAVID ESPO – 1 day ago


CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — It wasn't long ago that Rep. Ron Paul was an anti-war asterisk in the race for the Republican presidential nomination. Then his campaign raised a record $6 million in a single day.


Now the libertarian-leaning Texas congressman is looking like a possible spoiler, with an eclectic, tech-savvy following and an astounding $18 million in donations raised in less than three months.


"It's sort of gotten out of control. I don't know what to do about it," he told one audience recently in mock frustration.


At the current rate, it is some of his better known rivals who might have cause for concern. Polls give no indication that Paul can win any primaries or caucuses. But his appeal to independents, in particular, could make a difference in contests in New Hampshire, which votes on Jan. 8, or in Michigan, where a primary is scheduled one week later.


Sen. John McCain of Arizona, for one, hopes to appeal to independents in those states, both of which he won when he first sought the White House eight years ago. Paul's literature says he never voted to raise taxes, a point that could get him a look from backers of former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.


Other contenders who have been losing ground slowly in statewide New Hampshire surveys — former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani or former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson, for example — would be hard-pressed to explain it if they wind up trailing a man who says the United States needs a more humble foreign policy in an age of terrorism.


The attention is going to an 72-year-old physician who pursued an interest in free-market economics and a career in politics.


Addressing a breakfast audience recently, he was as scathing in his denunciation of President Bush's stewardship of international relations as he was of Bush's economic policy.
"I want the foreign policy of our Founding Fathers. No entangling relationships," he said. That means trade with Cuba, ending penalties against Iran and — above all — getting U.S. troops out of Iraq.


"All this death and destruction. We blow up their bridges, we're taxed for that. Then we're taxed to rebuild their bridges and our own bridges are falling down," he said, drawing a connection between the war and unmet needs in this country.


Paul's vision of the nation's economic future is not pretty. "When empires go too far their currencies are ruined because all wars are fought through inflation," he said. "That means the trillion-dollar operation that we have (overseas) is coming to an end. I want to bring it to an end gracefully, not wait for a dollar collapse."


While Paul says his critics sometimes accuse him of being a good candidate for the 19th century, his campaign appears to be aided to an unusual degree by the energy and enthusiasm of supporters skilled at using the Internet to their own advantage.


He is the only candidate whose name is emblazoned on a blimp. It was last reported over Maryland en route to New Hampshire, and has its own Web site, which in turn contains a daily tracker, flight plan, live video feed and blimp blog.


Because the effort says it is independent of the campaign, donations to keep the blimp aloft are not limited by federal election law. But the publicity it produces draws attention to Paul.


The campaign is employing more traditional tactics, as well.


Fergus Cullen, the New Hampshire Republican party chairman who is neutral in the race, said Paul's campaign has sent more campaign mail to households than any other organization has. Radio advertising is heavy, although paid television advertising has been relatively modest so far.


Current polls in New Hampshire show Paul in single digits. But Cullen said, "I believe there is more support than public opinion polls are picking up. I believe that he is appealing to anti-establishment Republicans and independents, and there are a lot of them."


Independents account for about 42 percent of the electorate in the state, and outnumber both Republicans and Democrats.


Cullen predicted the Texan would poll more than 10 percent — a significant threshold because it would guarantee him at least one delegate to the GOP nominating convention next summer.


He said he doubts Paul will hurt any candidate more than another. "I believe most of Ron Paul's supporters would probably not participate in the primary" without him in the race, he said.


Officials in other campaigns are not so sure.

Paul's campaign has been active in Iowa, too, although his relative lack of an organization in that state makes it harder to have an impact in the caucuses on Jan. 3 that mark the campaign's first test.


In recent days, the campaign has purchased 30-minute blocks of time for Sunday for a statewide appeal. Campaign mail has begun in Michigan, whose primary is Jan. 15.


Paul was noncommittal when asked how he intended to spend his surprisingly large treasury, answering only that he was getting ready to compete in primaries in 20 states on Feb. 5.


Beyond the campaign's official moves, a second independent effort involves supporters sending letters to independent voters in Iowa as well as elsewhere. A Web site devoted to the effort claims more than 500,000 letters sent to potential Iowa caucus-goers alone.


E-mails sent to two organizers drew no immediate response.


Jesse Benton, a campaign spokesman, said the blimp and the letter-writing campaign were examples of spontaneous support. "We couldn't control it if we wanted to, and we don't want to control it," he said.

[Rubio MHS]

Ron Paul wants a ban on abortion because he's invested money in clinics in Mexico.

[Trplsec]

Interesting Article from AP
=====================
http://ap.google.com/hostednews/img/ap_logo.gif?hl=en
Paul Shaping Up As Spoiler in GOP Race


By DAVID ESPO – 1 day ago


CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — It wasn't long ago that Rep. Ron Paul was an anti-war asterisk in the race for the Republican presidential nomination. Then his campaign raised a record $6 million in a single day.


Now the libertarian-leaning Texas congressman is looking like a possible spoiler, with an eclectic, tech-savvy following and an astounding $18 million in donations raised in less than three months.


"It's sort of gotten out of control. I don't know what to do about it," he told one audience recently in mock frustration.


At the current rate, it is some of his better known rivals who might have cause for concern. Polls give no indication that Paul can win any primaries or caucuses. But his appeal to independents, in particular, could make a difference in contests in New Hampshire, which votes on Jan. 8, or in Michigan, where a primary is scheduled one week later.


Sen. John McCain of Arizona, for one, hopes to appeal to independents in those states, both of which he won when he first sought the White House eight years ago. Paul's literature says he never voted to raise taxes, a point that could get him a look from backers of former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.


Other contenders who have been losing ground slowly in statewide New Hampshire surveys — former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani or former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson, for example — would be hard-pressed to explain it if they wind up trailing a man who says the United States needs a more humble foreign policy in an age of terrorism.


The attention is going to an 72-year-old physician who pursued an interest in free-market economics and a career in politics.


Addressing a breakfast audience recently, he was as scathing in his denunciation of President Bush's stewardship of international relations as he was of Bush's economic policy.
"I want the foreign policy of our Founding Fathers. No entangling relationships," he said. That means trade with Cuba, ending penalties against Iran and — above all — getting U.S. troops out of Iraq.


"All this death and destruction. We blow up their bridges, we're taxed for that. Then we're taxed to rebuild their bridges and our own bridges are falling down," he said, drawing a connection between the war and unmet needs in this country.


Paul's vision of the nation's economic future is not pretty. "When empires go too far their currencies are ruined because all wars are fought through inflation," he said. "That means the trillion-dollar operation that we have (overseas) is coming to an end. I want to bring it to an end gracefully, not wait for a dollar collapse."


While Paul says his critics sometimes accuse him of being a good candidate for the 19th century, his campaign appears to be aided to an unusual degree by the energy and enthusiasm of supporters skilled at using the Internet to their own advantage.


He is the only candidate whose name is emblazoned on a blimp. It was last reported over Maryland en route to New Hampshire, and has its own Web site, which in turn contains a daily tracker, flight plan, live video feed and blimp blog.


Because the effort says it is independent of the campaign, donations to keep the blimp aloft are not limited by federal election law. But the publicity it produces draws attention to Paul.


The campaign is employing more traditional tactics, as well.


Fergus Cullen, the New Hampshire Republican party chairman who is neutral in the race, said Paul's campaign has sent more campaign mail to households than any other organization has. Radio advertising is heavy, although paid television advertising has been relatively modest so far.


Current polls in New Hampshire show Paul in single digits. But Cullen said, "I believe there is more support than public opinion polls are picking up. I believe that he is appealing to anti-establishment Republicans and independents, and there are a lot of them."


Independents account for about 42 percent of the electorate in the state, and outnumber both Republicans and Democrats.


Cullen predicted the Texan would poll more than 10 percent — a significant threshold because it would guarantee him at least one delegate to the GOP nominating convention next summer.


He said he doubts Paul will hurt any candidate more than another. "I believe most of Ron Paul's supporters would probably not participate in the primary" without him in the race, he said.


Officials in other campaigns are not so sure.

Paul's campaign has been active in Iowa, too, although his relative lack of an organization in that state makes it harder to have an impact in the caucuses on Jan. 3 that mark the campaign's first test.


In recent days, the campaign has purchased 30-minute blocks of time for Sunday for a statewide appeal. Campaign mail has begun in Michigan, whose primary is Jan. 15.


Paul was noncommittal when asked how he intended to spend his surprisingly large treasury, answering only that he was getting ready to compete in primaries in 20 states on Feb. 5.


Beyond the campaign's official moves, a second independent effort involves supporters sending letters to independent voters in Iowa as well as elsewhere. A Web site devoted to the effort claims more than 500,000 letters sent to potential Iowa caucus-goers alone.


E-mails sent to two organizers drew no immediate response.


Jesse Benton, a campaign spokesman, said the blimp and the letter-writing campaign were examples of spontaneous support. "We couldn't control it if we wanted to, and we don't want to control it," he said.


The Associate Press? Did they NOT get the memo about MSM not covering Ron Paul??????

[Rubio MHS]

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa31/Decagon1/helloimron.gif

[TFK]

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa31/Decagon1/helloimron.gif


Post of the week.

TFK

[PetreTG]

Another interesting take on Ron Paul from USA DAILY

----------------------
USA
Dailytm

Ron Paul will win by a landslide

Larry Fester
Published 12/23/2007 - 8:35 p.m. EST

Analysis/Opinion-Republican presidential candidate and Texas Congressman, Ron Paul, can win the presidency. Contrary to the pundits and media propaganda, Ron Paul is best positioned to win the GOP nomination.

Ron Paul has more money than his opponents and is just starting to gain momentum. As a result of massive popular support Paul’s donor base is huge and donors are not close to reaching contribution limits. Paul’s opponents are going broke and their donors are maxed out. Ron Paul may raise 20 million this quarter and chances are he’ll raise more the next quarter.

To get an idea of how strong Paul’s support is consider this. Ron Paul received donations from over 123,000 people this quarter. If one out of 100 voters donate to a presidential candidate that means Paul has the support of over 12 million primary voters. My guess is that less than 1 out of 100 voters donate in a primary.

Of Paul’s opponents, John McCain and Mike Huckabee are broke and don’t have the funds to compete on Super Tuesday. Both candidates appear to be media creations in this election and don’t have that much popular support. If it weren’t for undeserved free media they wouldn’t be on the radar screens.

Giuliani was forced to go with his big state strategy because he ran the risk of getting creamed in early primaries. He appears to be a lead balloon and runs the risk of losing some of those big states to Paul. Thompson just hasn’t taken off. There is a chance he could get revived in South Carolina but he may not make it that far.

Romney is self financing his campaign and can go the distance, but how much of his personal wealth is he willing to squander?

Recent commentaries and political talk have mentioned the possibility of a brokered convention. This is an early admission by pundits that Ron Paul can’t be stopped, and a hope that he won’t have 50% of the delegates allowing his opponents to broker a deal to deny him the nomination.

Paul is unique among GOP candidates because his support is national. He can compete in every state.

The primary calendar has been frontloaded which was deliberate to keep second tier candidates (candidates not bought and paid for) from having a shot at winning the nomination. It is doubtful that when planning the schedules anybody had a clue that Ron Paul would be one of the only candidate that could be competitive on February 5th

Iowa, Wyoming, New Hampshire, Michigan, Nevada, South Carolina, Florida, Maine are all up for grabs prior to Super Tuesday which is on February 5th. Given the low expectations Paul only needs to win one of these to show that he can win prior to Super Tuesday.

The Iowa caucus on January 3rd will be a tough start for Paul. He hasn’t spent that much time in Iowa and may not have the organization that Romney does to win the caucus. Placing in the top five is all that is needed there. A third place would be huge.

Two days later on January 5th is the Wyoming Caucus. This state is a neighbor of Utah and Romney may have a strong organization here as well. Paul may do well here though.

January 8th in New Hampshire is where the campaign really starts for Ron Paul. He doesn’t need to win it but he probably will. Buchanan won this state in 1996 running on similar campaign themes with 27% of the vote. Paul’s support is much broader.

Paul’s odds look good for Michigan on January 15th. The state is a foreclosure war zone and Paul’s blaming of the Federal Reserve for creating a housing crash may resonate well.

January 19th Nevada and South Carolina are up for elections. Paul should win Nevada and has an outside shot at South Carolina.

On January 29th Florida is up. This is the state where Giuliani has circled his wagons. If he’s still in the race it will be an uphill battle for him especially if Paul has momentum generated by a couple victories. There is evidence of Paul support in Florida on the ground just by observing bumper stickers and yard signs on residences but Giuliani also has some visible support.

Of course, if Paul wins New Hampshire the momentum generated from that victory is likely to steam roll his campaign through all of the above mentioned states setting him up for the knock out punch on Super Tuesday.

If Ron Paul doesn’t have the nomination sewed up on Super Tuesday, Paul’s delegate rich home state of Texas will be the final nail in the coffin come March.

The point is it is already too late to stop Paul. He’s going to win the Republican nomination.

As a general election candidate Ron Paul will win a 50 state landslide against any Democratic nominee.

Ron Paul’s opposition to the war in Iraq, and defense of the Bill of Rights, and Civil Liberties, may actually dig deeply into the Democratic vote and overwhelmingly attract independents to his campaign.

His support for secure borders as an integral part of national defense is also a very popular issue that transcends parties.

If Ron Paul is the GOP nominee it won’t matter if Bloomberg or anybody else runs as a third party candidate. Once people go to Paul’s website and review his issues and record they either reject Paul’s ideas or they are sold. Paul will not lose any supporters to another candidate once they are in his camp.

Unlike media propaganda, the ideals of peace, freedom, and prosperity, are very mainstream. To the aging baby boomer population now on fixed incomes, Ron Paul’s challenging of the Federal Reserve’s ‘Inflation Tax’ is most welcomed. To the rest of America feeling the double whammy of an ‘Inflation Tax’ and progressive federal income taxes, Paul’s calls to end the income tax are a cause for celebration.

In fact, Paul’s calls for reforming the monetary system, the income tax, foreign policy, and protecting the Constitution, are a lot more mainstream than pre-emptive nuclear war, no borders, and a police state are.

Those media generated polls are as valuable as the media propaganda that pushed the nation to war in Iraq. People should have as much faith in polls as they do the Easter Bunny and computerized voting. Ron Paul is going to win by a landslide <table align="left" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td height="10"></td></tr><tr><td align="left"></td></tr></tbody></table>

[Rubio MHS]

http://bobmccarty.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/paul-10x10-1.jpg

[PetreTG]

Yes I know ... another meaningless poll :doh:

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2007/12/21/straw-poll-dec-21-jan-4/

The Poll claims to be SPAM PROOF ... but I'm sure where there's a will there's a way.

Ron Paul gets 22,000 votes and 29% of the republican votes total so far ... next closest is God Help us Giuliani with 13,246 votes.

over 76,200 votes on the republican side and 71,800 on the Democratic side ....

So far the winner of the overall poll ???


HILLARY CLINTON with nearly 32,700 votes so far ! :doh:

Clinton = 32,694
Paul = 21,997
Obama = 19,483
Giuliani = 13,246
Huckabee = 12,636

Here's a question for some here ... which Republican stands any chance of beating Hillary ?

[Anthony]

Yes I know ... another meaningless poll :doh:

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2007/12/21/straw-poll-dec-21-jan-4/

The Poll claims to be SPAM PROOF ... but I'm sure where there's a will there's a way.

Ron Paul gets 22,000 votes and 29% of the republican votes total so far ... next closest is God Help us Giuliani with 13,246 votes.

over 76,200 votes on the republican side and 71,800 on the Democratic side ....

So far the winner of the overall poll ???


HILLARY CLINTON with nearly 32,700 votes so far ! :doh:

Clinton = 32,694
Paul = 21,997
Obama = 19,483
Giuliani = 13,246
Huckabee = 12,636

Here's a question for some here ... which Republican stands any chance of beating Hillary ?I have 7 AOL accounts and can vote each time.

[Rubio MHS]

One thing not a single politician has on Paul is anything to do with econimics. Non bring as much knowledge to the table.Then how come he won't explain how America will adjust to a non-military-based economy in a time of economic downturn? He talks about grand schemes that might work, given 20 years of commitment, but in the short run, we're talking about four years of economic crisis, followed by him being replaced with an ultra-conservative or a neo-FDR.

[Anthony]

Yes I know ... another meaningless poll :doh:

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2007/12/21/straw-poll-dec-21-jan-4/

The Poll claims to be SPAM PROOF ... but I'm sure where there's a will there's a way.

Ron Paul gets 22,000 votes and 29% of the republican votes total so far ... next closest is God Help us Giuliani with 13,246 votes.

over 76,200 votes on the republican side and 71,800 on the Democratic side ....

So far the winner of the overall poll ???


HILLARY CLINTON with nearly 32,700 votes so far ! :doh:

Clinton = 32,694
Paul = 21,997
Obama = 19,483
Giuliani = 13,246
Huckabee = 12,636

Here's a question for some here ... which Republican stands any chance of beating Hillary ?Clinton can be beat on the issues. Stop attacking her personally and beat her straight up. It will be an easy fight.

[atomicdOGg34]

most polls ive seen, on msnbc and fox (shows like hardball, tucker, and oreilly) have hillary losing to ALL the republican candidates

AOL, huge media corp, LIBERAL

[Rubio MHS]

most polls ive seen, on msnbc and fox (shows like hardball, tucker, and oreilly) have hillary losing to ALL the republican candidates

AOL, huge media corp, LIBERALMSNBC is owned by General Electric, which is one of America's biggest weapons manufacturers. FOX News? Tell me you aren't being serious. You're using two hyper-conservative news agencies for information.

[atomicdOGg34]

MSNBC is owned by General Electric, which is one of America's biggest weapons manufacturers. FOX News? Tell me you aren't being serious. You're using two hyper-conservative news agencies for information.

i find chris matthews so be very objective, and i like tucker carlson as well

i watch oreilly and i dont agree with everything he says but he makes some good points, plus fox has hannity and colmes

[Rubio MHS]

i find chris matthews so be very objective, and i like tucker carlson as well

i watch oreilly and i dont agree with everything he says but he makes some good points, plus fox has hannity and colmesYou're an idiot, though. O'Reilly lies. He's not a legitimate source of news. Only stupid people listen to him.

[atomicdOGg34]

You're an idiot, though. O'Reilly lies. He's not a legitimate source of news. Only stupid people listen to him.

i actually have an IQ of 15 and moderate downs syndrome

merry xmas

[Rubio MHS]

i actually have an IQ of 15 and moderate downs syndrome

merry xmasI wish that were true. Then you couldn't type.

[atomicdOGg34]

I wish that were true. Then you couldn't type.

even though you hate me i pray for you

[Arben]

Another interesting take on Ron Paul from USA DAILY

----------------------
USA
Dailytm

[SIZE=5]Ron Paul will win by a landslide

[SIZE=2]Larry Fester
Published 12/23/2007 - 8:35 p.m. EST

...
I didn't want to quote the entire article again. 2 questions...

1)Who the hell is USA daily?
2)Did you actually read this? Interesting take? Interesting if you think retards are interesting. That was one of the worst things I've ever tried reading.

[PetreTG]

Conservatives still undecided on a presidential candidate
Posted on December 26, 2007 by Lance

The reason is clear why a candidate isn’t the obvious front runner in the Republican primary system: virtually none of the men running for the Republican nomination are conservatives. I, in my own life, see people wondering why Huckabee, as a pastor, has a bad record. I see people wondering if Duncan Hunter is even worth the vote because he at least has the appearance of what a pro-war conservative wants. Mitt Romney seems to be a northeastern liberal who just so happens to be Mormon, while Fred Thompson appears to still be waking up from his mid-morning nap.

This leads us to the report of many Iowa conservatives being undecided. I recently returned from a trip to Iowa, where I saw first hand in the Des Moines metro area (all the way north to Ames and Boone) that aside from a few people that are fans of Huckabee, no one really knows who they like, at least from the Republican standpoint. Democrats are solidly behind Obama, Edwards or Hillary and the countryside and towns are dominated by signs everywhere supporting one of the Democratic front runners. I never saw any Biden or Dodd signs, and there were very few Richardson supporters from what I could tell. However, the three Democrat front runners are popular in the state from what I could see.

Poll numbers have a different story for the Republicans. Somehow John McCain has an astounding 17% in the latest American Research Group poll. I met no McCain supporters nor saw any signs for the candidate. I ran into more support for Rudy Giuliani, surprisingly enough.

Tancredo showed some signs of life despite being only 1% in the polls for the past few months, but after he dropped out I was aware of numerous people calling the Ron Paul headquarters asking for signs to replace their Tancredo advertisements with. The good doctor appeared to be their second choice. Despite Romney being endorsed by Tancredo, I suspect Ron Paul and Fred Thompson will pick up the largest number of Tancredo supporters. They are the only two who appear to be against illegal immigration and amnesty.

In the end, I think the Iowa conservatives are stuck trying to decide between Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee, and Ron Paul. The last month of December has been an eye opener to the conservative (as well as Independent and Democrat) base in Iowa to the Texas congressman. Most people have heard of him and are learning more, and going by the same poll referenced earlier, Paul has jumped from 4% to 10% in less than a week. Given that some Independents will vote for Dr. Paul, I would not be surprised if he even carried first place by the time the caucus rolls around.

However, Romney still has the best shot. Before the election, I am expecting some big ads to come out blasting Huckabee in every which way you can imagine. Huckabee has topped out in the polls as the greatest alternative to Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney, but Romney can still pull it off if he keeps up his appearance as the (at least look-alike) reincarnation of Ronald Reagan.

Ron Paul and Mitt Romney appear to be conservatives. I believe Ron Paul is the best choice for conservatives, as Mitt Romney is not one in the least. As people have found out about Huckabee their sudden love for him is waxing cold and it will start to show in the poll numbers this final week before the caucus.

Iowans still have to pick a candidate: they just aren’t sold on one yet.

[PetreTG]

http://www.nationalreview.com/images/blog_header_campaignspot.gif (http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/)
Tuesday, November 13, 2007
http://beta.nationalreview.com/images/blog_dotted_divider.gif
RON PAUL
Zogby Predicts Ron Paul Could Get 15 to 18 Percent in New Hampshire

On the Sean Hannity radio program, pollster John Zogby said that Texas Congressman Ron Paul could end up surprising the field - and "embarass a lot of the frontrunners" by wildly exceeding expectations taking 15 to 18 percent in the New Hampshire primary.


An incredulous Hannity asked, "You don't see any chance he wins this thing, do you?" Zogby said no.


A Zogby poll in September found Paul with 3 percent of the vote. Three recent polls - St. Anselm, Marist, and the Globe/University of New Hampshire have put Paul at 7 percent.

[PetreTG]

Could Ron Paul win Iowa? (http://politicalinquirer.com/2007/11/23/could-ron-paul-win-iowa/)

Posted on November 23, 2007 by Lance


Although we see the possibility of Ron Paul winning New Hampshire (http://politicalinquirer.com/2007/11/14/zogby-ron-paul-has-a-good-chance-of-winning-new-hampshire/), there has not been as much talk of Ron Paul in Iowa due to the more traditional beliefs of the Republican caucus attendees there. Strangely enough, though, the Iowa Independent (http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1512) is talking of Ron Paul as a possible spoiler in the race due to the high number of GOP caucus goers who are actually against the Iraq war. I think the analysis here (http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1512) is right:

Ron Paul — Paul’s support comes from the least likely corners of Iowa, making it very difficult to measure with “likely voter” polls. Cynics expect his unlikely coalition to stay home on caucus night, and they might; but if the depth of a candidate’s support is one measure of his likely success in the caucuses, Paul has the rest of the field beat. While Huckabee, Romney, Giuliani, former Sen. Fred Thompson, and Sen. John McCain appear to swap supporters every few weeks, Paul’s fans remain squarely in his corner. And there is the oft-ignored fact that polls show that a majority of likely GOP caucus-goers favor withdrawal from Iraq within six months (http://cmondisplay.com/2007/10/21/majority-of-iowa-republican-caucus-goers-favor-iraq-withdrawal-within-6-months/), which many analysts are hard-pressed to explain.
Could Paul win Iowa? I’m not sure. He’s in fourth place behind Giuliani, Huckabee, and Romney. The way independents and Democrats vote is not as “iffy”, I guess you’d say, as in New Hampshire. Iowa just doesn’t have the “independent spirit” we are used to associating with the northern state primary. There is a major factor though that might change this race around: It’s Ron Paul! If his campaign and his supporters are working hard in Iowa, it could be possible for Paul to pull off a 3rd place or higher finish.


If Ron Paul were to carry New Hampshire and place a decent 3rd or higher in Iowa, the chances of him making the nomination will grow exponentially. The media will have to cover him at that point, and, given that I believe most Americans agree with Paul (they just don’t know about him…bad name recognition thanks to our great friends in the corporate media), he will win with a sizable majority–his largest opposition coming from neocons and their blowhards like Hannity and Limbaugh.

<iframe src="http://digg.com/api/diggthis.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigg.com%2F2008_us_ele ctions%2FCould_Ron_Paul_win_Iowa_Rising_poll_numbe rs_and_more_activity_say_yes%2F" style="padding: 4px 0pt 2px 4px; background: rgb(255, 255, 255) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; float: right; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 5px; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" frameborder="0" height="82" scrolling="no" width="55"></iframe>
Time will tell. It is just over a month until the Iowa caucus, the first step in this race to the finish primary season.

[Rubio MHS]

If Ron Paul were to carry New Hampshire and place a decent 3rd or higher in Iowa, hell will freeze over.

[Trplsec]

If Ron Paul were to carry New Hampshire and place a decent 3rd or higher in Iowa, hell will freeze over.

And Petre will skeet all over his tin foil boxer shorts.

[PetreTG]

December 25, 2007
Poll: Obama, Huckabee slipping among Iowa men (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/25/iowa-poll-says-clinton-breaking-away-from-the-pack/)
WASHINGTON (CNN) – Call it an early Christmas gift for Hillary Clinton’s campaign: A new Iowa poll seems to show the New York senator with a stunning double-digit lead over her nearest rival among likely Democratic caucus-goers.


Clinton and Obama were neck-and-neck in last week’s American Research Group poll. But in the new survey, conducted December 20-23, she leads the Illinois senator by 15 percentage points, 34 to 19 percent. Obama is now in a statistical tie for second place with former North Carolina senator John Edwards, who has 20 percent of the vote.


According to the poll, Obama has lost some ground among male voters in Iowa: Last week, he led the field with 27 percent support, followed by 21 for Clinton and 19 for Edwards. This week, the leaders are Clinton and Edwards, with 28 and 27 percent support among Democratic men. Obama has 16 percent support, and Joe Biden has 11 percent.


As Hillary Clinton appears to be breaking away from the pack, the Republican race in Iowa may be tightening up. A week ago, an ARG poll placed Mike Huckabee over Mitt Romney by an 11-point margin among likely Republican caucus-goers, but the latest poll by the group puts the two back in a statistical tie, 23 to 21 percent. John McCain has 17 percent of the vote, Rudy Giuliani has 14 percent — and Ron Paul has 10 percent in the latest poll, up from 4 percent last week.


Like Obama, the poll indicates that Huckabee’s support among male voters in Iowa may be slipping. Last week, Huckabee had 31 percent support among Republican men; this week, he and Rudy Giuliani are tied at 20 percent. John McCain and Mitt Romney both have the support of 17 percent of the GOP’s likely male caucus goers.


The most recent ARG polls have a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points. The polls were conducted over the phone, and had a sample size of 600 likely Democratic and 600 Republican caucus-goers living in Iowa, respectively.

–CNN's Rebecca Sinderbrand

[monkeystyle]

I can't believe the people who started to like that fake Huckabee piece of shit once he got Chuck Norris' support :lol:

I think the human race is doomed.

[PetreTG]

Yes I know ... another meaningless poll :doh:

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2007/12/21/straw-poll-dec-21-jan-4/

The Poll claims to be SPAM PROOF ... but I'm sure where there's a will there's a way.

Ron Paul gets 22,000 votes and 29% of the republican votes total so far ... next closest is God Help us Giuliani with 13,246 votes.

over 76,200 votes on the republican side and 71,800 on the Democratic side ....

So far the winner of the overall poll ???


HILLARY CLINTON with nearly 32,700 votes so far ! :doh:

Clinton = 32,694
Paul = 21,997
Obama = 19,483
Giuliani = 13,246
Huckabee = 12,636

Here's a question for some here ... which Republican stands any chance of beating Hillary ?

Now with a total of nearly 244,000 votes (129,000 Republican votes and 115,000 Democratic votes rounded )

Clinton = 51,335
Paul = 42,020
Obama = 31,395
Giuliani = 20,911
Huckabee = 20,183

Even with a high margin of error and cheating (which can be done for all) I have to give more credit to a poll that has nearly 1/4million open votes , than one that has 1008 chosen calls.

[Rubio MHS]

The only people who like Ron Paul are internet nerds who don't vote.

[PetreTG]

<object width="425" height="373"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IWfIhFhelm8&rel=1&border=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IWfIhFhelm8&rel=1&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="373"></embed></object>

[Arben]

The only people who like Ron Paul are internet nerds who don't vote.
It's been tried before. Dukakis tried it. Dean tried it. Clinton used it right, by not catering to the generation, but just seeming like he was on their level.

[Rubio MHS]

It's been tried before. Dukakis tried it. Dean tried it. Clinton used it right, by not catering to the generation, but just seeming like he was on their level.The problem with blogging is that there's literally zero oversight. I mean, newspapers, TV and the radio get away with all sorts of things. The bloggers who support Ron Paul love to gloss over his pro-big-business, abortion-outlawing, anti-Mexican and anti-science stances.


No one who wants abortion outlawed is every going to be president.
Ron Paul wants abortion outlawed.
Therefore, Ron Paul will never be president.I mean, even the libertarians hate Ron Paul. When he ran for president in 1988, you saw more "Andre Morrou for Vice President" bumperstickers than you saw "Ron Paul for President" bumper stickers.

[atomicdOGg34]

problem with all these polls petre are this:

1) its a hypothetical general between all candidtaes, the real one will only have 2 and paul isnt going to win the repub nom and said he wont run independent or liberatarian

2) people have a tendency to vote with their hearts in these kind of polls but when its comes to the real thing they are more likely switch to the "more experienced" candidate or the one that they feel will be more likely to win the real thing

[PetreTG]

Does Paul want it outlawed and would he outlaw it or would he let each state decide despite his personal pro life position as an OBGYN and man of faith.

Let's set the record straight.

===========


Federalizing Social Policy

by Ron Paul (http://www.house.gov/paul/mail/welcome.htm)
by Ron Paul

<!-- Copyright 2001-2002, Clickability, Inc. All rights reserved.--> <script language="javascript1.2" src="http://a449.g.akamai.net/7/449/1776/000/button.clickability.com/10/button_1/button.js"> </script><script language="JavaScript"> window.onerror=function(){clickURL=document.locati on.href;return true;} if(!self.clickURL) clickURL=parent.location.href;*</script><nobr></nobr>

As the Senate prepares to vote on the confirmation of Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito this week, our nation once again finds itself bitterly divided over the issue of abortion. It's a sad spectacle, especially considering that our founders never intended for social policy to be decided at the federal level, and certainly not by federal courts. It's equally sad to consider that huge numbers of Americans believe their freedoms hinge on any one individual, Supreme Court justice or not.
Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided, but not because the Supreme Court presumed to legalize abortion rather than ban it. Roe was wrongly decided because abortion simply is not a constitutional issue. There is not a word in the text of that document, nor in any of its amendments, that conceivably addresses abortion. There is no serious argument based on the text of the Constitution itself that a federal "right to abortion" exists. The federalization of abortion law is based not on constitutional principles, but rather on a social and political construct created out of thin air by the Roe court.


Under the 9th and 10th amendments, all authority over matters not specifically addressed in the Constitution remains with state legislatures. Therefore the federal government has no authority whatsoever to involve itself in the abortion issue. So while Roe v. Wade is invalid, a federal law banning abortion across all 50 states would be equally invalid.


The notion that an all-powerful, centralized state should provide monolithic solutions to the ethical dilemmas of our times is not only misguided, but also contrary to our Constitution. Remember, federalism was established to allow decentralized, local decision-making by states. Today, however, we seek a federal solution for every perceived societal ill, ignoring constitutional limits on federal power. The result is a federal state that increasingly makes all-or-nothing decisions that alienate large segments of the population.


Why are we so afraid to follow the Constitution and let state legislatures decide social policy? Surely people on both sides of the abortion debate realize that it's far easier to influence government at the state and local level. The federalization of social issues, originally championed by the left but now embraced by conservatives, simply has prevented the 50 states from enacting laws that more closely reflect the views of their citizens. Once we accepted the federalization of abortion law under Roe, we lost the ability to apply local community standards to ethical issues.


Those who seek a pro-life culture must accept that we will never persuade all 300 million Americans to agree with us. A pro-life culture can be built only from the ground up, person by person. For too long we have viewed the battle as purely political, but no political victory can change a degraded society. No Supreme Court ruling by itself can instill greater respect for life. And no Supreme Court justice can save our freedoms if we don't fight for them ourselves.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul2.jpg


January 31, 2006

Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member
of Congress from Texas.
==========


So ... here we have a guy that is prolife that actually defends your right not to be ... this issue is not about the pro or con of abortion. It's about reducing government controls to constitutional levels.

[Rubio MHS]

No, Ron Paul has repeatedly said that based on his experience as an OB/GYN that abortion SHOULD be outlawed. He constantly explains that killing an unborn child is akin to murder.

[PetreTG]

No, Ron Paul has repeatedly said that based on his experience as an OB/GYN that abortion SHOULD be outlawed. He constantly explains that killing an unborn child is akin to murder.

Would / Should
Would / Should
Would / Should
Would / Should

Hmmmm I'm sure there's a difference between those two words ... now what could that be ?

:cool:

[Rubio MHS]

No one who thinks that abortion should be outlawed will EVER be elected.

[PetreTG]

8 years of Bush pretty much invalidates that statement.

[Arben]

:lol:

[godking]

Rather than start anymore new threads about Ron Paul , I've decided to start one last thread , this one , on Ron Paul for those of you in here that ARE interested in him or that are on the fence.

It's not for discussion , it's simply to get to know the man and see the people across America ... no matter how few you think they are , that support him.

This thread is closed for posts as it's not for discussion. It's for knowledge.

If you feel strongly about an opposing candidate , I encourage you to start a thread on them and do the same.

For this thread I'm going to step back a few months and post his appearance on Leno. But more importantly is his interaction with the people and what an effect he's having on the hopes and dreams of those people. Drawing crowds that Leno's show has never seen for a candidate ever before.

This is a genuine good soul we're being offered as a candidate. See if you don't agree.

This will give you a chance also to see all "the kooks" he attracts from diverse culture, race and religion (Or not) .


<OBJECT height=355 width=425>

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9LZyHoAPL3M&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></OBJECT>Is is a naive fool who wants to pull us out of the WTO which would destroy our economy.</P>
I am sure that you with your business savvy can see what a boneheaded move pulling out of WTO would be.

[Rubio MHS]

8 years of Bush pretty much invalidates that statement.You are wrong. Bush is NOT anti-abortion, because he was involved in one, remember? Bush has constantly talked about a "common ground" between pro-life and pro-choice stances - holding a more liberal view of abortion than the GOP platform - while Ron Paul has said that abortion should be illegal and compared it to murder.

Are you posting stupid and wrong things because you are stupid and wrong, or because you're trying to get me to flame you?

[PetreTG]

<center>BUSH on Abortion</center>

<center> </center>
Q: What is your attitude towards abortion:

BUSH: Surely we can find common ground to reduce the number of abortions in America. This is a very important topic, and it’s a very sensitive topic because a lot of good people disagree on the issue. I think what the next president ought to do is promote a culture of life in America. As a matter of fact, I think a noble goal for this country is that every child, born and unborn, ought to be protected in law and welcomed into life. What I do believe is, we can find good common ground on issues like parental notification or parental consent. And I know we need to ban partial-birth abortions. This is a place where my opponent and I have strong disagreements. I believe banning partial-birth abortion would be a positive step toward reducing the number of abortions in America.
<center> Source: Presidential debate, Boston MA Oct 3, 2000 </center>
<center> Aprroval of RU-486 is wrong </center>

The FDA approved yesterday the abortion pill RU-486, but leaders on both sides of the abortion issue say debate over the pill will continue. The FDA approved the drug under a regulation that gives the agency more leeway to impose tighter restrictions or even take it off the market.“The FDA’s decision to approve the abortion pill RU-486 is wrong,” Bush said in a statement. “As president, I will work to build a culture that respects life.” <center> Source: Rita Rubin, USA Today, p. 1A Sep 29, 2000 </center>
<center> Good people can disagree; but let’s value life </center>

I will lead our nation toward a culture that values life -- the life of the elderly and the sick, the life of the young, and the life of the unborn. I know good people disagree on this issue, but surely we can agree on ways to value life by promoting adoption and parental notification, and when Congress sends me a bill against partial-birth abortion, I will sign it into law. <center> Source: Speech to Republican National Convention Aug 3, 2000 </center>
<center> Every child born and unborn ought to be protected </center>

Bush opposes abortion except in cases of rape, incest or to save the mother’s life. He’ll try to seem non-threatening, respecting others’ views without backing off his long-held “pro-life” position. He previously had said he would not demand that his Supreme Court nominees be anti-abortion. It’s even conceivable he’ll choose a running mate who supports abortion rights, Bush said. “I’m going to talk about the culture of life,” he continued. “I’ve set the goal that every child born and unborn ought to be protected. But I recognize [that many] people don’t necessarily agree with the goal. People appreciate somebody who sets a tone, a tone that values life, but recognizes that people disagree.“ He pointed out that those gun-toting killers at Columbine High School did not value life; they ”devalued“ it.

--------------------
--------------------

Ron Paul
Those who seek a pro-life culture must accept that we will never persuade all 300 million Americans to agree with us. A pro-life culture can be built only from the ground up, person by person. For too long we have viewed the battle as purely political, but no political victory can change a degraded society. No Supreme Court ruling by itself can instill greater respect for life. And no Supreme Court justice can save our freedoms if we don't fight for them ourselves.

:cool:

[Rubio MHS]

That's completely different from what Ron Paul says. Ron Paul says that abortion is murder. If Bush were as gung-ho about abortion, he wouldn't have been elected.

Well, technically, he wasn't elected, so you just proved my point.

[PetreTG]

Of course it is ... hey , what ever works for ya. :notallthere:

[PetreTG]

Ron Paul: Real Conservatives Don't Start Wars, They End Them (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-freedman/ron-paul-real-conservati_b_78248.html)

Posted December 26, 2007 | 03:21 AM (EST)

<hr>
Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX) recently gained fame for breaking one-day online donation records (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/16/on-tea-party-anniversary_n_77038.html), but he's still considered an underdog by many because of his single-digit polling and arguably radical views on a variety of issues. For one thing, he supports an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, a position that seems more at home with the Democrats these days. So why is he up there, debate after debate, standing out from the likes of Huckabee and Romney and McCain? Why isn't he trying to fit in if he wants to win the primary? Is he even a Republican?

He told me he is--just not the same kind as the rest of them.
"I think their definitions are different," he said. "Today, the Party has been taken over by a group called neoconservatives, and I don't believe they're really conservative. I think they're really liberal in the modern sense of the word--they're big spenders, they believe in entitlements, they believe in military adventurism."


Paul certainly doesn't believe in "military adventurism." He articulated an anti-preemption stance, geared toward avoiding another inextricable, Iraq-like conflict in the future. And unlike some politicians, he usually acts in accordance with his stated philosophy. For example, he was one of only six Republicans in the House to vote against the Iraq War Resolution.


"The traditional conservative--which the Republicans used to be--did not advocate aggressive war, usually got our country out of the wars such as after Korea and Vietnam..." he said. "We've done exactly the opposite. And because I'm a strict constitutionalist, this has separated me from the other candidates."


Some have called Ron Paul an isolationist, in part because of his views on foreign aid and the use of military force. He strongly disagreed with the association.


"I'm the last thing from an isolationist," he said. "An isolationist is a protectionist--they want to build walls around their country. They may want to bring troops home, but they also want to close the door for trade and travel and the spreading of ideas, and that's quite different. The Founders, I think, had it right when they said, 'Trade with people, be friends with people, but don't get involved in their internal affairs and don't get involved in entangling alliances,' and you'd be a lot less likely to fight people that you're trading with than if you have protectionist measures and sanctions on countries [like] we do today."


He added: "The same individuals who claim I might be an isolationist are the ones who are putting sanctions on countries like Iran and Iraq and Sudan, and yet the trade might stop us from fighting. I, for instance, think we should be trading with Castro, rather than putting sanctions on Castro, because it didn't do any good--after 40 or 50 years, it hasn't helped us a bit."


Finally, Paul believes that the United States should not be entirely dependent on other nations for its energy.


"I think the most important thing is to let the market set the price of energy and get out of the way of alternative energy," he said. "We've been interfering with the development of nuclear energy for 30 or 40 years. We don't develop any new nuclear power plants, but then at the same time we take money and we subsidize alternative fuels such as ethanol, which nobody's ever proven is an economically feasible alternative. So the most important thing is to recognize that the government bureaucrats and politicians have no idea what is the best alternative fuel, but if the market pushes the price of oil up, then people are going to say, 'Hey, they're running out of oil! And oil is now $200 a barrel, we better do something,' and the market's going to come up with the best alternative."


These goals may seem ambitious, but Paul is conservative about what he could accomplish unilaterally, stressing that he would need to rely on congressional support that a mandate, in the form of his successful election to the presidency, would grant him.


"You could [unilaterally] change the foreign policy and bring troops home and save a lot of money. And you could start repealing executive orders that have been so onerous. And you could refuse to enforce laws that are put on the books through regulations and by court orders or executive orders. So you could be discreet in what you enforce, but to really, really have the big changes, yes, you have to work and develop a consensus on what you're trying to do."

[PetreTG]

The New York Times prints a retraction to a smear peice it wrote on Paul

They want real dirt .... they just can't find any.
--------------
NYT Retracts Paul -
White Supremacy Link Story
The New York Times
12-27-7

A post (http://themedium.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/24/the-ron-paul-vid-lash/) in The Medium that appeared on Monday about the Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul and his purported adoption by white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups contained several errors. Stormfront, which describes itself as a "white nationalist" Internet community, did not give money to Ron Paul's presidential campaign; according to Jesse Benton, a spokesman for Paul's campaign, it was Don Black, the founder of Stormfront, who donated $500 to Paul. The original post also repeated a string of assertions by Bill White, the commander of the American National Socialist Workers Party, including the allegation that Paul meets regularly "with members of the Stormfront set, American Renaissance, the Institute for Historic Review and others" at a restaurant in Arlington, Va. Paul never attended these dinners, according to Benton, who also says that Paul has never knowingly met Bill White. Norman Singleton, a congressional aide in Paul's office, says that he met Bill White at a dinner gathering of conservatives several years ago, after which Singleton expressed his indignation at the views espoused by White to the organizer of the dinner. The original post should not have been published with these unverified assertions and without any response from Paul

[PetreTG]

Ron Paul Excluded from New Hampshire Forum
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Hampshire Republican Party Leaders make decision to exclude Ron Paul from the January 6th forum.

Reported by the Associated Press
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by Michael McDonnough

From the AP: GOP candidates to meet in N.H. forum

WASHINGTON (AP) - The New Hampshire Republican Party is sponsoring a forum for Republican presidential candidates on Jan. 6, two days before the state's first-in-the-nation primary.

The forum, where the candidates will be questioned by Fox New Channel's Chris Wallace, will be held a day after ABC holds back to back Democratic and Republican presidential debates.

"Never underestimate New Hampshire voters' appetite for politics," said Fergus Cullen, the chairman of the state Republican Party.

Participating in the forum will be Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson.

Unlike a debate, the candidates will face questions from Wallace around a table in a studio on the campus of St. Anselm College in Goffstown, N.H..

The 90-minute encounter will air live beginning at 8 p.m. ET on the Fox News Channel and on Fox News Radio.


---------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------

The decision to exclude Paul was made by the chairman of the New Hampshire Republican Party Fergus Cullen .

fergus@nhgop.org

Telephone: (603)225-9341

Fax: (603) 225-7498

[Trplsec]

Ron Paul Excluded from New Hampshire Forum
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Hampshire Republican Party Leaders make decision to exclude Ron Paul from the January 6th forum.

Reported by the Associated Press
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by Michael McDonnough

From the AP: GOP candidates to meet in N.H. forum

WASHINGTON (AP) - The New Hampshire Republican Party is sponsoring a forum for Republican presidential candidates on Jan. 6, two days before the state's first-in-the-nation primary.

The forum, where the candidates will be questioned by Fox New Channel's Chris Wallace, will be held a day after ABC holds back to back Democratic and Republican presidential debates.

"Never underestimate New Hampshire voters' appetite for politics," said Fergus Cullen, the chairman of the state Republican Party.

Participating in the forum will be Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson.

Unlike a debate, the candidates will face questions from Wallace around a table in a studio on the campus of St. Anselm College in Goffstown, N.H..

The 90-minute encounter will air live beginning at 8 p.m. ET on the Fox News Channel and on Fox News Radio.


---------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------

The decision to exclude Paul was made by the chairman of the New Hampshire Republican Party Fergus Cullen .

fergus@nhgop.org

Telephone: (603)225-9341

Fax: (603) 225-7498


That's disappointing, and completely unfounded. The key problem I have is that Thompson was included and he is polling lower than Paul in almost every single New Hampshire primary poll.

I could understand if they selected the top 5 candidates and Paul was # 6, but that's not the case in New Hampshire. Not only is Paul currently polling in the 5th spot, but he's actually improved in the polls over the last couple of months while Thompson has declined.

I will send an email in protest.

[Rubio MHS]

Ha, ha! That pretty much is the last nail in Ron Paul's coffin. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :cheer: :cheer:

[atomicdOGg34]

its ridiculous not to have paul there

[Rubio MHS]

He took money from the guy who founded Stormfront, a racist internet board. He doesn't belong in the Republican debates.

[PetreTG]

its ridiculous not to have paul there
They were literally flooded with Emails and calls and now it seems they're backpeddling and claiming it was an error on Pauls campaign managers fault. That he had not registered/confirmed for it yet .... :rolleyes:

[PetreTG]

I'm sure the guy from Stormfront personally handed the money to Paul and said keep up the good work ... :rolleyes:

Did you know he takes money from pimps and strippers too ?

What an idiotic arguement.
:kick:

[PetreTG]

Something very magical is happening as more and more MSM guys are softening to Paul ...

Notice in this interview they state Tucker Carlson has publically joined the many who are endorsing Ron Paul .... but even more interestingly at the very end of the interview , Scarborough tells his viewers and Ron Paul ... He has another supporter who's never voted before that is on the Ron Paul bandwagon .... HIS SON ! .... "Joey Scarborough a member of the Ron Paul rEVOLution! " :clap:

Scarborough actually resounds agreement with Ron Paul for his fiscal policy and gives him and "AMEN" ... :clap:

They bring up points like his raising the most money ever by any party in a single day and it being "buried on page 50 of the Washington Post" instead of being headline news ...


Yes ... something magical is happening ... will you be a part of it ?

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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

[slystaff]

Ron Paul doesn't have the charisma for teh office. Forget policies. We all know that the presidency is bigger than one man. America will do whatever America will do regardless of who's elected. Therefore charm and charisma is what's important here!

[PetreTG]

Ron Paul doesn't have the charisma for teh office. Forget policies. We all know that the presidency is bigger than one man. America will do whatever America will do regardless of who's elected. Therefore charm and charisma is what's important here!

In other words : American's are stupid and easily swayed.

Charisma without substance wins over substance without charisma ... I believe your right ... but this time things may be different. :clap:

[PetreTG]

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vza4p71X6g8&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vza4p71X6g8&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[PetreTG]

They were literally flooded with Emails and calls and now it seems they're backpeddling and claiming it was an error on Pauls campaign managers fault. That he had not registered/confirmed for it yet .... :rolleyes:

Then again , this may not be true as this statement was just released from Ron Paul on the situation ....

--------------

Paul: Fox News is 'scared of me' (http://www.boston.com/news/local/politics/primarysource/2007/12/paul_fox_news_i.html)

Link (http://www.boston.com/news/local/politics/primarysource/2007/12/paul_fox_news_i.html) By James Pindell December 29, 2007 01:40 PM
PLAISTOW, N.H. -- Ron Paul said the decision to exclude him from a debate on Fox News Sunday the weekend before the New Hampshire Primary is proof that the network "is scared" of him.


"They are scared of me and don't want my message to get out, but it will," Paul said in an interview at a diner here. "They are propagandists for this war and I challenge them on the notion that they are conservative."


Paul's staff said they are beginning to plan a rally that will take place at the same time the 90-minute debate will air on television. It will be taped at Saint Anselm College in Goffstown.


"They will not win this skirmish," he promised.


The Fox debate occurs less than 24 hours after two back to back Republican and Democratic debates on the same campus sponsored by ABC News, WMUR-TV and the social networking website Facebook.


Paul, the Republican Texas Congressman, was wrapping up his final day of campaigning in New Hampshire until the Iowa Caucuses on Thursday.


He spent much of the day campaigning at diners in Manchester and Plaistow and downtown walks in Derry and Exeter.

[Rubio MHS]

In other words : American's are stupid and easily swayed.

Charisma without substance wins over substance without charisma ... I believe your right ... but this time things may be different. :clap:Only people with bad spelling support Ron Paul.

Anyway, do you still post articles about Las Vegas odds on Ron Paul? What are they now? 1000 to 1?

[PetreTG]

Only people with bad spelling support Ron Paul.

Anyway, do you still post articles about Las Vegas odds on Ron Paul? What are they now? 1000 to 1?
Are you now reduced to the lamest argument of all internet bitches ?

Spelling typos ?

:clap:

[Trplsec]

Are you now reduced to the lamest argument of all internet bitches ?

Spelling typos ?

:clap:


The truth is that he can muster no better argument in this case. Paul is the best choice, but American's still don't do enough research to substaniate their vote. They take what they're most easily feed. I think it's 50% laziness and 50% fear of something different. Nevertheless, it's poor voting.

[PetreTG]

The truth is that he can muster no better argument in this case. Paul is the best choice, but American's still don't do enough research to substaniate their vote. They take what their most easily feed. I think it's 50% laziness and 50% fear of something different. Nevertheless, it's poor voting.

Something we can agree on ... :bears:

[atomicdOGg34]

paul wants to get rid statuatory monopolies, like in telecommunications, water services, electricity, etc

dont think i agree with this stance

[Rubio MHS]

paul wants to get rid statuatory monopolies, like in telecommunications, water services, electricity, etc

dont think i agree with this stanceDon't worry. He's never going to do that.

Pedro,

What are the odds on Ron Paul becoming elected now? I haven't kept up with the Vegas odds.

[atomicdOGg34]

Don't worry. He's never going to do that.

Pedro,

What are the odds on Ron Paul becoming elected now? I haven't kept up with the Vegas odds.

he mentioned he would get rid of them in the hour long google interview he did for youtube

would be a logistical nightmare

[Rubio MHS]

he mentioned he would get rid of them in the hour long google interview he did for youtube

would be a logistical nightmareOh, I know he said he would. I just don't think he ever would. I don't think he would ever get rid of income taxes, either. Basically, what he'd do is enact changes that would take 10 years to complete and 20 years before we see any noticable gains.

It would be lovely if we could build a nation with Ron Paul's ideals in mind, but it wouldn't take a president with four or eight years to build it. It would take a dictator. Ron Paul should start making connections with Blackwater and go the fascist route, the way Preston Bush tried to.

[PetreTG]

paul wants to get rid statuatory monopolies, like in telecommunications, water services, electricity, etc

dont think i agree with this stance

Yeah ... Competition is bad .... monopolies good .

:kick:

[PetreTG]

Oh, I know he said he would. I just don't think he ever would. I don't think he would ever get rid of income taxes, either. Basically, what he'd do is enact changes that would take 10 years to complete and 20 years before we see any noticable gains.

It would be lovely if we could build a nation with Ron Paul's ideals in mind, but it wouldn't take a president with four or eight years to build it. It would take a dictator. Ron Paul should start making connections with Blackwater and go the fascist route, the way Preston Bush tried to.

Yeah that's what the guy who warns of fascism in America would do.

Here's a clue for you .... when a guy like Paul gets the wheels rolling and makes major changes , or even the start of major change ... the people get woken up to what it is they've been missing , hope springs and turns into a flood and there's no stopping it. The people would except nothing less and would demand it from the next president and their congressmen.

What you propose is that we accept someone that won't do shit except more of the same because the bureaucracy wouldn't allow it so why not just bend over and take it.

It's people like you that allowed the Hitler's of the world to come to power.

:kick:

[PetreTG]

Haha ... this is great if true .

:clap:

29 December 2007

Will There Be a Run on NewsCorp (NWS) Holdings? (http://libertyline.blogspot.com/2007/12/will-there-be-run-on-newscorp-nws.html)

<script type="text/javascript">
digg_url = 'http://libertyline.blogspot.com/2007/12/will-there-be-run-on-newscorp-nws.html';
</script>On the heels of a December 28th, 2007 AP report that confirms Ron Paul's exclusion from the Fox News roundtable discussion of January 6th, 2008, the same kinds of energetic Ron Paul supporters who engineered the November 5th 2007 $4.3 million fund drive and the December 16th $6.03 million drive, are taking a new approach to speaking out in the wake of a media blackout: a massive selloff of NewsCorp (NWS) stock.

Unlike the earlier efforts which were organized at a grassroots level, there appears to be no organization behind this latest move whatsoever. Instead, irate investors from around the nation and around the world began announcing their plans to dump NWS stock in several internet forums, and upon discussions they began to achieve consensus that much of the liquidated funds would be donated to the Ron Paul campaign coffers.

One investor, when asked for comment, told us, "I am tired, sick and tired of NewsCorp's Fox News channel deciding for the American public who they will and will not permit to run for President. Nobody asked me to sell my shares of NewsCorp, but I refuse to allow my capitol to be used to censor legitimate presidential candidates."

Will all of this anger and talk of selloffs actually translate into a run on NewsCorp stock? Only time will tell. In the meantime, savvy investors will be keeping a close eye on NWS stock over the next week.

[Black Market Baby]

regarding his exclusion from a debate in fox, Ron Pauls campaign actually got the date wrong at first. The original date (January 5th, not 6th) was scrapped months ago. All they had to do was to confirm the date and there would have been no problem. Lack of organization let this fall through the cracks, and that was the fault of Ron Paul's campaign.

When I take a look at his financial disclosure statements there are a lot of investments in coins and shrimp companies? Do you think he's ever earmarked money from congress toward these projects? Just another note, his financial disclosure reporting (stating who he gets money from) trails behind all other republican candidates except Tancredo, Thompson and Keyes.

[PetreTG]

regarding his exclusion from a debate in fox, Ron Pauls campaign actually got the date wrong at first. The original date (January 5th, not 6th) was scrapped months ago. All they had to do was to confirm the date and there would have been no problem. Lack of organization let this fall through the cracks, and that was the fault of Ron Paul's campaign.

When I take a look at his financial disclosure statements there are a lot of investments in coins and shrimp companies? Do you think he's ever earmarked money from congress toward these projects? Just another note, his financial disclosure reporting (stating who he gets money from) trails behind all other republican candidates except Tancredo, Thompson and Keyes.
Since youre posing the question I'm betting you already know the answer , so , I'm sure the answer is yes ... So what's your point ?

Do you think he did it for himself alone ?

How's his record compared to others ? Is THAT the best dirt you have on him ? .... my god he's a SAINT compared to the others! :clap:

[PetreTG]

Since youre posing the question I'm betting you already know the answer , so , I'm sure the answer is yes ... So what's your point ?

Do you think he did it for himself alone ?

How's his record compared to others ? Is THAT the best dirt you have on him ? .... my god he's a SAINT compared to the others! :clap:

PS .... you should call FOX NBC CBS MSNBC CNN and all the other MSM news agencies ....

Even they have yet to dig that bullshit up on Paul.

You could get paid for it ! :clap:

[PetreTG]

ANOTHER SHINING ENDORSEMENT OF RON PAUL .... It's not just college kids anymore ... :clap:

Most now realize ... this could be our last chance before it's too late ... and thus risk career and more to speak up .

Judge Andrew Napolitiano of Fox News speaks out ...

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[Rubio MHS]

Why should we listen to you when you said that Barak Obama was more corrupt than Karl Rove and Alberto Gonzales?

[PetreTG]

Why should we listen to you when you said that Barak Obama was more corrupt than Karl Rove and Alberto Gonzales?


Did I say that ?

[Rubio MHS]

Did I say that ?Your stupid list did. And don't try to say that members of the Bush administration don't count, because Scooter Libby was on it.

[PetreTG]

Your stupid list did. And don't try to say that members of the Bush administration don't count, because Scooter Libby was on it.

Did I write that list ?

One of these days Rubi ... you're going to see I was much more a friend than a foe .... hopefully you'll put your anger aside and have a change of heart about me then .

[Rubio MHS]

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa31/Decagon1/hiimpedro.gif

Oh, and I've been a Libertarian since Ron Paul ran for president the first time, just not in that faggy, overbearing way that doesn't make sense.

[PetreTG]

For those of you of the MTV Generation .... Adam Curry speaks up about Ron Paul ...

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/G9WMdFhRAQM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G9WMdFhRAQM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[Rubio MHS]

That was probably recorded in 1988.

[atomicdOGg34]

Yeah ... Competition is bad .... monopolies good .

:kick:

obviously youve never worked construction, do you know the choas there would be with 15 competing firms each bringing in equipment and digging shit up to run their pipes, or lines or whatever

itd be a nightmare, ive worked in new developments when trench digging and the like was going on for the running of gas and telecommunications, that was a big enough pain in the ass, cant even imagine, 5-10 different companies coming in with their equipment and their crews, all digging to high heaven, absolute nightmare

in some cases, monopolies are preferable

[Rubio MHS]

obviously youve never worked construction, do you know the choas there would be with 15 competing firms each bringing in equipment and digging shit up to run their pipes, or lines or whatever

itd be a nightmare, ive worked in new developments when trench digging and the like was going on for the running of gas and telecommunications, that was a big enough pain in the ass, cant even imagine, 5-10 different companies coming in with their equipment and their crews, all digging to high heaven, absolute nightmare

in some cases, monopolies are preferableThink of it this way. You would have the choice to hire one company to do everything, or you could save money and hire several.

[atomicdOGg34]

Think of it this way. You would have the choice to hire one company to do everything, or you could save money and hire several.

i hire one company to do my gas, my neighbor another, his neighbor a different cable company from both of us, thats 3 different lines that need to be put in, in the span of less than a block, what a mess

you see where this is going, much easier, construction wise, to have 1 provider

soon you will only need 1 company anyways for all your needs as companies now offer tv and phone/internet service package deals, but still, construction wise would be hell

wont happen anyways, the companies we have now are too established, with lines already in and huge customer bases, a new entrant would have a tough time

[PetreTG]

obviously youve never worked construction, do you know the choas there would be with 15 competing firms each bringing in equipment and digging shit up to run their pipes, or lines or whatever

itd be a nightmare, ive worked in new developments when trench digging and the like was going on for the running of gas and telecommunications, that was a big enough pain in the ass, cant even imagine, 5-10 different companies coming in with their equipment and their crews, all digging to high heaven, absolute nightmare

in some cases, monopolies are preferable
:lol: .... I owned a construction company that did HUD and other Federally funded contracts.

[atomicdOGg34]

:lol: .... I owned a construction company that did HUD and other Federally funded contracts.

surprised you think thats a good idea then, but then again you OWNED the company, you didnt actually do any of the work

[PetreTG]

surprised you think thats a good idea then, but then again you OWNED the company, you didnt actually do any of the work

True to a point ... early on I was always a working owner .... the bottom line is this . The company that did the best work for a reasonable price always got the job. Jobs were plentiful and you'd reach your limit and it was on to the next best company/price ratio .... IMO this is a good thing for any company willing to do a good job.

[TFK]

For those of you of the MTV Generation .... Adam Curry speaks up about Ron Paul ...


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Adam Curry?

There aren't enough smiley faces on this board.

Thanks for your opinion, Adam. I guess Randy of the Redwoods was too busy to give his opinion.

TFK

[PetreTG]

The world is a diverse rainbow of colors, attitudes and beliefs .... that a man like Paul can bring them together is a ... miracle

I don't expect some of certain attitude or belief to see the beauty in that.

[atomicdOGg34]

True to a point ... early on I was always a working owner .... the bottom line is this . The company that did the best work for a reasonable price always got the job. Jobs were plentiful and you'd reach your limit and it was on to the next best company/price ratio .... IMO this is a good thing for any company willing to do a good job.

i agree, you should be willing and able to do a good job, just trying to actually work it out logistically would be pretty hard with several companies

[Rubio MHS]

Yeah, and Larry Craig's more corrupt than Alberto Gonzales and Karl Rove because he tapped someone's foot at an airport bathroom. :lol:

[PetreTG]

We could argue for a year who's more corrupt and never agree.

Hell ... I didn't write the list and quite honestly , I'd have put a few on there that aren't.

I just found it interesting that 4 that made the list are currently running for the highest political office in the country.

:doh:

[PetreTG]

Has Fox News Excluded Ron Paul?


On December 27, the Associated Press reported (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071227/ap_po/on_the2008_trail_7): "The New Hampshire Republican Party is sponsoring a forum for Republican presidential candidates on Jan. 6, two days before the state's first-in-the-nation primary." Later in the article, the AP stated: "Participating in the forum will be Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson."

On the evening of December 28, Jared Chicoine and Jordan Brown of our New Hampshire campaign staff met in person with Fergus Cullen the New Hampshire GOP chairman to discuss whether or not Dr. Paul would be invited to participate in the forum. Mr. Cullen confirmed there will be an event on January 6, but he could not confirm whether or not Dr. Paul would be invited. We also learned the event would not be a debate with an audience, but instead would be a forum in a closed studio with the candidates questioned only by Chris Wallace of Fox News.

A few hours after that meeting, we contacted Fox News seeking clarification. Later that night, we issued a press release (http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/94/has-fox-news-excluded-ron-paul) while waiting to hear from Fox News.

On December 29, the Baltimore Sun featured a report by Jason George (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/ron_paul_outfoxed.html). Mr. George reported, "Calls and emails to Fox News spokespersons by the Tribune were not returned Saturday evening.

"An official at the New Hampshire GOP, which is co-sponsoring the event with Fox, said that Paul might still be included, but the planning for the debate was still coming together and it was ultimately Fox's call."

As of late afternoon today (December 30), we have nothing more to report.

Kent Snyder
Chairman, Ron Paul 2008

[Rubio MHS]

https://www.paganshopping.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/RCOFN.jpg

http://www.indyfoto.com/Images/coffin.jpg

[PetreTG]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/images/logo.gif
Ron Beats Rudy?
New Hampshire could surprise a lot of people.

BY ANDREW CLINE
Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST MANCHESTER, N.H.--For several hours last Sunday, more than a dozen Ron Paul volunteers stood in snowdrifts in the rain outside the Mall of New Hampshire in Manchester waving at last-minute Christmas shoppers and handing out hundreds of yards signs.
The campaign doesn't know how many people participated because, as with so many Paul rallies, this one was organized entirely by fans not officially associated with the campaign.
"We told them to take Christmas Eve and Christmas off, and next thing we know they're doing a sign wave at the mall," said Jim Forsythe, a self-employed engineer and former Air Force pilot from Strafford, N.H., who independently organizes volunteer efforts for Ron Paul.
That spontaneous grassroots support is why Mr. Paul, an obstetrician from Lake Jackson, Texas, could pull off a stunner on Jan. 8 and place third in New Hampshire's Republican primary. If he does, he would embarrass Rudy Giuliani and steal media limelight from John McCain and Mitt Romney, who are battling for first place.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/images/storyend_dingbat.gif

Many Republican operatives in New Hampshire, even those affiliated with other campaigns, think Mr. Paul is headed for an impressive, double-digit performance. That he has been polling in the high single digits for months is discounted, because the polls may be missing the depth of his support. Why? For starters, he appears to be drawing new voters. Polls that screen for "likely" voters might screen out many Paul supporters who haven't voted often, or at all, before. Many of Mr. Paul's supporters appear to be first-time voters. They will be able to cast their ballots because New Hampshire allows them to register and vote on the day of an election.
http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/hc_paul.jpgEven Mr. Paul's New Hampshire spokesman, Kate Rick, is an unlikely political activist. She grew up in a political family in Washington, D.C. and says "I swore I would never work in politics." She changed her mind only after finding Mr. Paul, a candidate she says she can finally believe in. "Most people I know in the grass roots are like that," she said. "My closest friends have never voted before, and they're die-hard Paul people now."
There is another reason to discount the polls on Mr. Paul. The one thing that unites his supporters is a desire to be left alone, not only by government, but by irritating marketers and meddling pollsters, too. Mr. Paul's supporters might well be screening their calls and not-so-inadvertently screening out pollsters. Still, some observers of the primary race here downplay this support, noting that a lot of the activists who show up in news stories are not state residents and won't be voting.
It is true that Paul supporters from New York, New Jersey and even California are prominent at campaign rallies. But volunteers and campaign staffers say that, although out-of-state volunteers often are the most flamboyant and can attend daytime rallies while local supporters are at work, they do not outnumber the locals.
"Ninety percent [of his supporters] are from New Hampshire," says Jared Chicoine, Mr. Paul's New Hampshire coordinator. Keith Murphy, a former Democratic campaign worker from Maryland who owns Murphy's Taproom in Manchester, has held several Paul rallies at his restaurant, which has become a regular hangout for the Paul crowd. When the candidate shows up, about 75% of the activists at an event are from out of state, he said, but on other nights it's about 50-50.
Regardless of where they are from, organizing Mr. Paul's supporters is a challenge. "This is entirely grassroots oriented to the point that the official campaign structure seems almost lost, to the point that they don't know what to do with all these people," Mr. Murphy said.
On their own initiative, and at their own expense, Paul volunteers hold rallies, print and distribute brochures and even purchase ads. "I pick up the paper and say, wow, there's an ad and it's not my ad," Mr. Chicoine told me.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/images/storyend_dingbat.gif

The buzz surrounding the Paul campaign is reminiscent of the grassroots campaign Democrat Carol Shea-Porter waged against Republican Rep. Jeb Bradley last year. Polls showed Mrs. Shea-Porter trailing by 19 points in October. With almost no money and no support from the Democratic establishment, she came from behind and beat the congressman 51% to 49%. Many are wondering if the polls are similarly missing Mr. Paul's momentum. Mrs. Shea-Porter and Mr. Paul have very different ideas about how to use the power of government, but both strongly oppose the war in Iraq. And Mrs. Shea-Porter ran last year as a fiscal conservative, so it's possible Mr. Paul could win over many Republicans who voted for her last year.
Mr. Chicoine and other Paul supporters say that, contrary to conventional wisdom, most of Mr. Paul's backers are Republicans, not independents. But everyone agrees that Mr. Paul draws an unusual mix of libertarians, fiscally conservative Democrats, conservative Republicans, home-schoolers, vegans, gambling aficionados, anti-abortion activists and others who want the government to butt out of some aspect of their lives.
But will they get out to vote on primary day?
"I've never seen a group of people that are this energetic about a candidate," Mr. Murphy said. "It's something else."
That sentiment is shared by Republicans who have observed numerous New Hampshire primaries. The level of enthusiasm for Mr. Paul is remarkable, they say. It transcends the state's Libertarian base (about 4% of the electorate). And by many accounts, Mr. Paul's backers here are more energized and committed than are supporters of Mr. Giuliani, who may enjoy inflated poll numbers because of his celebrity status.
National attention is focused on the horse races between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, and between Messrs. McCain and Romney. But the shy obstetrician from Texas could be the surprise story of the New Hampshire primary.

[Arben]

The world is a diverse rainbow of colors, attitudes and beliefs .... that a man like Paul can bring them together is a ... miracle

I don't expect some of certain attitude or belief to see the beauty in that.
:notallthere:

[Trplsec]

Has Fox News Excluded Ron Paul?


On December 27, the Associated Press reported (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071227/ap_po/on_the2008_trail_7): "The New Hampshire Republican Party is sponsoring a forum for Republican presidential candidates on Jan. 6, two days before the state's first-in-the-nation primary." Later in the article, the AP stated: "Participating in the forum will be Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson."

On the evening of December 28, Jared Chicoine and Jordan Brown of our New Hampshire campaign staff met in person with Fergus Cullen the New Hampshire GOP chairman to discuss whether or not Dr. Paul would be invited to participate in the forum. Mr. Cullen confirmed there will be an event on January 6, but he could not confirm whether or not Dr. Paul would be invited. We also learned the event would not be a debate with an audience, but instead would be a forum in a closed studio with the candidates questioned only by Chris Wallace of Fox News.

A few hours after that meeting, we contacted Fox News seeking clarification. Later that night, we issued a press release (http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/94/has-fox-news-excluded-ron-paul) while waiting to hear from Fox News.

On December 29, the Baltimore Sun featured a report by Jason George (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/ron_paul_outfoxed.html). Mr. George reported, "Calls and emails to Fox News spokespersons by the Tribune were not returned Saturday evening.

"An official at the New Hampshire GOP, which is co-sponsoring the event with Fox, said that Paul might still be included, but the planning for the debate was still coming together and it was ultimately Fox's call."

As of late afternoon today (December 30), we have nothing more to report.

Kent Snyder
Chairman, Ron Paul 2008


Complete bullshit.

By the way Petre, I sent my email of protest. Did you?

[Rubio MHS]

Listen to him, Pedro! You could literally double the number of protest e-mails they've gotten!

[PetreTG]

Complete bullshit.

By the way Petre, I sent my email of protest. Did you?
Absolutely ... and I informed many others of the situation , like yourself and got them to email or call as well.

Everyone on my email list called or emailed them :clap:

[PetreTG]

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[atomicdOGg34]

im not gonna lie, i like RP, i just dont see how he can win

if he did though id be pleased

[PetreTG]

im not gonna lie, i like RP, i just dont see how he can win

if he did though id be pleased
Join the REVOLUTION and he just might ... don't let it pass you by , be a part of it.

[TFK]

Join the REVOLUTION and he just might ... don't let it pass you by , be a part of it.

That's just corny.

He should at least make the REVILution. Have some balls.


TFK

[Rubio MHS]

Join the REVOLUTION and he just might ... don't let it pass you by , be a part of it.You know Ron Paul has no shot when the 0.01% of the population supporting him rip off bad car commercials from the 1990s to support him.

[PetreTG]

Time to pass the buck and point fingers ...
============================
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Date: December 31, 2007

Contact: Fergus Cullen, Chairman, New Hampshire Republican Party

NH REPUBLICANS: DON’T LIMIT DEBATE PARTICIPANTS

CONCORD – New Hampshire Republican Party Chairman Fergus Cullen releases the following statement regarding primary weekend debates:

“Limiting the number of candidates who are invited to participate in debates is not consistent with the tradition of the first in the nation primary. The level playing field requires that all candidates be given an equal opportunity to participate – not just a select few determined by the media prior to any votes being cast.”

“Therefore, the New Hampshire Republican Party calls upon all media organizations planning pre-primary debates or forums for both parties to include all recognized major candidates in their events.”

“The New Hampshire Republican Party has notified FOX News of our position, and we are in ongoing discussions with FOX News about having as many candidates as possible participate in the forum scheduled for January 6.”

- 30 -

[PetreTG]

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:clap:

[PetreTG]

Press Releases (http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/) › Ron Paul Supporters Donate Nearly $20 Million in Fourth Quarter (http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/101/ron-paul-supporters-donate-nearly-20-million-in-fourth-quarter/)

January 1, 2008 9:55 am EST


Message of freedom, peace and prosperity rallies record support


ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA –Texas Congressman Ron Paul’s presidential campaign had a record fundraising quarter, exceeding its original goal of $12 million by over 50 percent when it raised nearly $20 million during the months of October, November and December.


“Only Dr. Paul has the ability to inspire Americans to contribute and take action that is necessary if Republicans want to defeat the Democrats in November,” said campaign chairman Kent Snyder.


In two 24-hour periods on November 5 and December 16, the campaign raised over $10 million dollars. The total of over $19.5 million represents an increase of nearly 300 percent from its third quarter total of $5.28 million.


For the quarter, the campaign had over 130,000 donors, including over 107,000 new donors. The total was reached with an average donation size that was just under $90.


Of the other Republican candidates, only Mike Huckabee – who reported $5.04 million this quarter – discloses his fundraising total online. However, Dr. Paul’s total is over $9 million more than any Republican candidate raised in the third quarter.

[Rubio MHS]

Too bad for Ron Paul! He'll never get elected now! :laughing: :laughing: :doh:

[PetreTG]

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/global/nav/header/cnn_politics.gif
updated 6:50 a.m. EST, Tue January 1, 2008

TV cuts candidates from debates, angering Paul backers
<!-- google_ad_section_end --><!--endclickprintinclude--><!--startclickprintinclude-->
Story Highlights<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
ABC, Fox narrow debate field to top-polling candidates
Some Paul supporters are calling for a boycott of Fox advertisers
ABC basing participation on results of Thursday's Iowa caucusNEW YORK (AP) -- ABC and Fox News Channel are narrowing the field of presidential candidates invited to debates this weekend just before the New Hampshire primary, in Fox's case infuriating supporters of Republican Rep. Ron Paul.


<!--startclickprintexclude--> <!----><!--===========IMAGE============-->http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/POLITICS/12/31/debate.limits.ap/art.paul.gi.jpg

<!--===========/IMAGE===========--><!--===========CAPTION==========-->Fox News says it has limited space in its studio, which leaves Rep. Ron Paul out of a weekend debate.

<!--===========/CAPTION=========-->


http://www.cnn.com/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif


<!--endclickprintexclude--> The roster of participants for ABC's back-to-back, prime-time Republican and Democratic debates Saturday in New Hampshire will be determined after results of Thursday's Iowa caucus become clear.


Fox, meanwhile, has invited five GOP candidates to a forum with Chris Wallace scheduled for its mobile studio in New Hampshire on Sunday. Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee received invites, leaving Paul of Texas and Rep. Duncan Hunter of California on the sidelines.


The network said it had limited space in its studio -- a souped-up bus -- and that it invited candidates who had received double-digit support in recent polls.


In a nationwide poll conducted December 14-20 by The Associated Press and Yahoo, Thompson had the support of 11 percent of GOP voters and Paul was at 3 percent. Paul's support is at 6 percent in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll conducted in early December.


Paul (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/Ron_Paul) was tied with Thompson for fifth in New Hampshire in the most recent Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll, each with the support of 4 percent of likely voters. Among all New Hampshire voters, Paul led Thompson 6 percent to 4 percent, but that was within the poll's margin of error.
<!--startclickprintexclude--> Don't Miss
Paul rakes in millions (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/18/paul.fundraising/index.html)<!--endclickprintexclude--> Jesse Benton, Paul's spokesman, said it was a "big mistake" not to include Paul, especially given Paul's recent success in fundraising. He said the campaign has been trying to reach Fox News to get an explanation for the decision, but its calls had not been returned.


"There very well might be some bias," Benton said. "Ron brings up some topics that aren't very popular with Fox News (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/FOX_News_Network_LLC), as in fiscal responsibility and withdrawing from the war in Iraq ... that does leave us scratching our heads a little bit about whether it was deliberate. Based on metrics, I don't see how you can possibly exclude Dr. Paul."


Some livid Paul supporters are distributing e-mails calling for a boycott of Fox advertisers.


A Fox representative did not immediately return calls for comment about the complaints.


Paul has been invited to a GOP forum that Fox News is sponsoring in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, on January 10, Benton said.


To participate in ABC's (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/ABC_Inc) Saturday night debate, Republican and Democratic candidates must meet at least one of three benchmarks: place first through fourth in Iowa, poll 5 percent or higher in one of the last four major New Hampshire surveys, or poll 5 percent or higher in one of the last four major national surveys.


ABC News anchor Charles Gibson said the criteria were actually quite inclusive. He defended the network taking the initiative in effectively narrowing the field at a point when no actual voters had cast a ballot, except for Iowa caucus-goers.


"You will have had a year's politicking," he said. "You will have had, I think by count, about 641 debates. You will have had national polls and state polls and one state's vote. I think that's pretty indicative."


Gibson said ABC explained the rules for participation in a conference call with all the campaigns and "nobody said, "How dare you!' "<!--startclickprintexclude-->

[PetreTG]

http://www.gambling911.com/gambling911-subpageheader.gif
Ron Paul Supporters Could Cause Millions of Losses for Fox News

2008 US Presidential candidate Ron Paul supporters raised an unprecedented $10 million plus during two single day fundraising efforts. Real supporters putting their money behind a candidate they truly believe can become the next President of the United States. Fox News doesn't see it that way. That organization has excluded the long time Texas Representative from participating in an upcoming televised New Hampshire debate. In response, supporters of Ron Paul have called for boycotting the cable news network and its sponsors. With nearly $20 million raised for the Paul campaign during the 4th quarter, there is speculation that a "boycott" move could seriously affect sponsors.

Fox News May Want to Look to its Own Past

Back in 1997, I was one of many who worked on a case involving Fox News Corp, which at that time was a small upcoming cable news organization going up against powerhouse CNN. Chicag0-based law firm, Kirkland & Ellis, represented Fox News at the time.

CNN was owned by Time Warner. Time Warner dominated cable television in New York City and, while Fox news tickers flashed from its state-of-the-art studio in Midtown Manhattan's most prime real estate along Avenue of the Americas, few if anyone in the city could actually view Fox News. That's because Time Warner excluded them.

When Time Warner bought out Ted Turner's Turner Broadcasting, a federal antitrust consent decree required Time Warner to carry a second all-news channel in addition to Time Warner's own CNN. Time Warner selected MSNBC as the secondary news network, instead of Fox News. Fox News claimed that this violated an agreement to carry Fox News, and Ailes used his connections to persuade Mayor Giuliani to carry Fox News and Bloomberg Television on two underutilized city-owned cable channels, which he did.

New York City also threatened to revoke Time Warner's cable franchise for not carrying FOX News.

A lawsuit was filed by Time Warner against the City of New York claiming undue interference and for inappropriate use of the city's educational channels for commercial programming. News Corporation countered with an antitrust lawsuit against Time Warner for unfairly protecting CNN. This led to an acrimonious battle between Murdoch and Turner, with Turner publicly comparing Murdoch to Adolf Hitler while Murdoch's New York Post ran an editorial questioning Turner's sanity. Giuliani's motives were also questioned, as his then-wife was a producer at Murdoch-owned WNYW-TV. In the end, Time Warner and News Corporation signed a settlement agreement to permit Fox News to be carried on New York City cable system beginning in October 1997, and to all of Time Warner's cable systems by 2001, though Time Warner still does not carry Fox News in all areas.

The end result was that a lot of people residing in New York City felt jilted by Time Warner's decision not to run Fox News. Once they were required to do so, many tuned in en masse and found themselves liking the product that Fox News had to offer.

Ron Paul supporters, likewise, have suggested that exclusion from this upcoming event could backfire.

"They (Fox News) are scared of me!" Ron Paul himself is quoted as saying.

Unfair Playing Ground

The Fox affiliate in New Hampshire has said it had limited space in its studio — a souped-up bus — and that it invited candidates who had received double-digit support in recent polls. Yet analyses of recent poll results suggest that Fred Thompson (who was invited to take part) is in a dead heat with Ron Paul. Prediction markets have Ron Paul way ahead of Thompson

Likewise, Ron Paul continues to be the most searched for candidate on the Web. Paul himself has suggested that his supporters are less likely to be reflected in national and local polls since many have never voted before and a large percentage do not have access to land-line phones. Also, it is widely speculated that many of the so-called "undecided" votes will go towards Paul. The Republican's treasure chest is being utilized wisely via last minute ad campaigns that paint the Texas Congressman as a pro-life, pro-gun Patriot who served his country well during Vietnam.

Jesse Benton, Paul's spokesman, said it was a "big mistake" not to include his candidate, especially given Paul's recent success in fundraising. He said the campaign has been trying to reach Fox News to explain the decision, but its calls had not been returned.

"There very well might be some bias," Benton said. "Ron brings up some topics that aren't very popular with Fox News, as in fiscal responsibility and withdrawing from the war in Iraq ... that does leave us scratching our heads a little bit about whether it was deliberate. Based on metrics, I don't see how you can possibly exclude Dr. Paul."

New Hampshire Republican Party Chairman Fergus Cullen releases the following statement regarding primary weekend debates:

“Limiting the number of candidates who are invited to participate in debates is not consistent with the tradition of the first in the nation primary. The level playing field requires that all candidates be given an equal opportunity to participate – not just a select few determined by the media prior to any votes being cast.”

“Therefore, the New Hampshire Republican Party calls upon all media organizations planning pre-primary debates or forums for both parties to include all recognized major candidates in their events.”

“The New Hampshire Republican Party has notified FOX News of our position, and we are in ongoing discussions with FOX News about having as many candidates as possible participate in the forum scheduled for January 6.”

Short It!

Gambling911.com reporter, Jennifer Reynolds, who was brought on specifically to cover the lucrative Ron Paul campaign, had this to say in response to the Fox News exclusion:

Ron Paul supporters will be holding rallies, writing letters to the editor, boycotting all sponsors, calling Fox news and in an additional move there is even talk of contacting all shareholders of the company that owns Fox news (I will let you look that up yourself) and is advising everyone to sell sell sell and for those of you not able to sell, buy short. I am not offering any advice, I am only reporting what I have seen in print.

It should be noted that Gambling911.com certainly doesn't advocate shorting News Corp stocks. Reynolds is simply passing along information she gathered across the Net.

A look at the News Corp Yahoo! finance forums display what Reynolds is alluding to. That board was inundated with Ron Paul supporters blasting the company even though trading would not commence for a full 36 hours from press time.

"Fox is playing the AMERICAN PUBLIC for FOOLS. How dare they!" cries out one poster.

"Murdoch and Fox are desperate and could care less about the first amendment and the truth. Complete cowards," voiced another disgruntled Ron Paul supporter.

On Monday, News Corp's shares had fallen .19%.

[Anthony]

i say drop Thompson and Paul. Both are meaningless and wont do shit.

[Rubio MHS]

If Ron Paul supporters are watching Fox News in the first place, it tells you what knobheads they are.

[Trplsec]

i say drop Thompson and Paul. Both are meaningless and wont do shit.

Now realistically that would be a good solution. But I will say that Paul has been gaining some ground in New Hampshire so it would be a crime for him not to participate. If he was flat or declining in the polls, I would agree with leaving him out. But he has actually gained a couple or 3 percentage points in most NH Primary Polls.

[Rubio MHS]

Now realistically that would be a good solution. But I will say that Paul has been gaining some ground in New Hampshire so it would be a crime for him not to participate. If he was flat or declining in the polls, I would agree with leaving him out. But he has actually gained a couple or 3 percentage points in most NH Primary Polls.No one who wants "prayer time" in schools is going to get elected president. Ron Paul's not going to be elected. Why waste airtime on his right-wing message?

[Arben]

Here's a story in a New York paper about Paul that made the front page. Basically, they're saying he will beat Rudy in Iowa. It's more about how that's embarassing to the Guiliani campaign and less about Paul doing anything special.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uspaul0102,0,2760846.story

[PetreTG]

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[PetreTG]

<object width="425" height="373"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Trd7fgo7Sf8&rel=1&border=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Trd7fgo7Sf8&rel=1&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="373"></embed></object>

[PetreTG]

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[Rubio MHS]

What about that avatar bet, Pedro? I said I'd honor it on any forum I post at for 50 months.

[PetreTG]

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[PetreTG]

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[Anthony]

Yesterday i found out this wasnt even a debate. This is just a round table discussion with Chris Wallace on Fox & Friends. The top candidates will be sitting at a table answering questions from Wallace himself. Basically an Interview. :lol:

[PetreTG]

For some odd reason ... Larry King and company didn't air this interview ... :cool:
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[PetreTG]

http://www.alternet.org/images/site/logo.gif

Should Big Media Choose Our Candidates?
<!-- end: headline --> <!-- start: byline --> By Rory O'Connor (http://www.alternet.org/authors/2226/), AlterNet (http://www.alternet.org/). Posted January 2, 2008 (http://www.alternet.org/ts/archives/?date%5BF%5D=01&date%5BY%5D=2008&date%5Bd%5D=02&act=Go/).

<!-- end: byline --> <!-- end: headline and byline --> <!-- start: teaser --> Why should ABC and Fox get to decide who is a viable candidate for president?


Should Big Media decide for the rest of us who is -- and more importantly who is not -- a viable candidate for president? It's bad enough that thus far the reporting of this year's quadrennial presidential pursuit has been even more insubstantial than ever, focused on the horse race, the fundraising, the polls, the pundits, the haircuts and assorted other bits of silliness -- anything other than actual issues of concern to voters and importance to the world.


Now we find Big Media, (specifically its Fox/ABC News wing,) determined to narrow the field of presidential candidates before any of us, other than a handful of white people in Iowa, even get a chance to vote!


Both television networks plan to winnow out presidential candidates they deem unacceptable and prevent them from participating in important debates to be held this weekend -- just before the crucial New Hampshire primary.


Fox has invited just five of the seven remaining Republican candidates to a forum with Chris Wallace scheduled for Sunday in the Granite State -- only two days before the nation's first presidential primary. Although Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Mitt Romney and even the barely breathing Fred Thompson were all invited, two current candidates, both current Members of Congress, were not -- Duncan Hunter and Ron Paul.
The Fox excuse? "Space is limited" in the "souped-up bus" that is serving as a mobile studio. As a result, Fox executives say that, for space reasons, they decided only to invite those candidates who had received double-digit support in recent polls. Forget the fact that Ron Paul actually is ahead of Thompson (6 percent to 4 percent) among all New Hampshire voters in the most recent Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll, or that the two were tied with the support of 4 percent of likely voters ...


Forget as well the fact that Paul recently shattered the record for online fundraising in a single day, raising nearly $6 million in 24 hours -- a little more than a month after he amazed the pollsters, pundits and political professionals by hauling in $4.3 million during the same time span. (Not bad considering that on the day that John Kerry accepted the 2004 Democratic nomination, he raised $5.7 million on the Internet -- the biggest online fundraising day on record until the supposedly non-viable Ron Paul surpassed it.)


But consider at least these facts: in just the last three months, Paul collected more than $19.5 million, bringing his total for the year to more than $25 million. More than 130,000 contributors gave to Paul during the fourth quarter, including more than 107,000 new donors.


"This is exciting. It's crazy. I can't imagine any other Republican raising this kind of money this quarter. This means Ron Paul's message is really resonating with people," Jim Forsythe, who leads Paul's New Hampshire MeetUp group, told the Washington Post.


But Big Media doesn't seem as impressed -- at least now. Remember just a few months ago, however, when how much money a candidate was able to raise was the Big Media imprimatur of viability? Now that Ron Paul has vaulted near the top of the fundraisers, it seems the bar is being moved, and is set a little higher for him.


Could it be instead that his stance on the issues is the real barrier to letting American voters see and hear him debate on Fox News just before the crucial first presidential primary takes place? After all, it's no secret that Paul's outspoken opposition to the Iraq war, to mention just one 'deviant' policy position, is what really sets him apart from all the other Republican candidates.


Paul's spokesman Jesse Benton says the campaign has been trying to reach Fox News representatives to get an explanation for the decision, but calls have not been returned. (Meanwhile Rudy Guiliani has appeared so often on the Fox News channel -- run by his close friend Roger Ailes -- that it's rumored he's having a private line installed in the Control Room there.)
Is Fox prejudiced against Paul because of his perceived lack of viability -- or his policy stances? "There very well might be some bias," Benton told the AP. "Ron brings up some topics that aren't very popular with Fox News, as in fiscal responsibility and withdrawing from the war in Iraq ... that does leave us scratching our heads a little bit about whether it was deliberate. Based on metrics, I don't see how you can possibly exclude Dr. Paul."


Based on metrics, you can't ... And if the small size of the mobile studio is really the issue, I'll gladly chip in to help rent a larger space if necessary. But if Ron Paul isn't added back into the debate, I'll also gladly join his supporters, who have begun calling for a boycott of Fox advertisers. After all, whatever happened to "We Report, You Decide?"


For their part, ABC executives say they will decide who gets to show up for their back-to-back, primetime Republican and Democratic debates Saturday in New Hampshire -- but only after the results of Thursday's Iowa caucus are known. To participate in the ABC debates, Republican and Democratic candidates must either place first through fourth in Iowa, poll 5 percent or higher in one of the last four major New Hampshire surveys, or poll 5 percent or higher in one of the last four major national surveys.


ABC News anchorman Charles Gibson defended the network's decision to determine who was a viable candidate before any actual voters -- except for Iowa caucus-goers -- even had a chance to cast a ballot, and contended that the new 'viability' criteria were still inclusive. "You will have had a year's politicking," Gibson told the Associated Press. "You will have had, I think by count, about 641 debates. You will have had national polls and state polls and one state's vote. I think that's pretty indicative."


Sorry, Charlie -- but nobody asked what you think. Once every four years, you're supposed to ask us what we think. You report, remember. We decide, right?

[Trplsec]

Narrowing the field a year before the actually election is criminal. Now as the primaries start pointing toward definitive favorites, then yes, go ahead and narrow the field.

[Rubio MHS]

Narrowing the field a year before the actually election is criminal. Now as the primaries start pointing toward definitive favorites, then yes, go ahead and narrow the field.In the early days, all the kooks get to take part in the debates. Now it's time to weed out the idiots with no chance of getting elected, like Alan Keys and Ron Paul.

[Anthony]

Its not even a debate.

[Rubio MHS]

Where's Michael Moore when you need him? Alan Keyes deserves to be a part of this roundtable discussion!

[Arben]

Its not even a debate.
It's not billed as one, but they do, in fact, debate topics.

[Anthony]

It's not billed as one, but they do, in fact, debate topics.Its more of an interview on a weekly television show.

[Cheo Malanga]

Its more of an interview on a weekly television show.

it is a debate.

when a group of people sit down in a form of round table discussion where a moderator asks questions it is a debate.

it's not in the typical election format where there's a panel asking questions and what not. but when a group of people get a chance to express different opinions and defend them is a debate. in fact, most debates are done that way.

[Rubio MHS]

it is a debate.

when a group of people sit down in a form of round table discussion where a moderator asks questions it is a debate.

it's not in the typical election format where there's a panel asking questions and what not. but when a group of people get a chance to express different opinions and defend them is a debate. in fact, most debates are done that way.He means it wasn't a formal debate.

[Cheo Malanga]

He means it wasn't a formal debate.

good. which means it is a better one. you can actually express yourself and not bs for 30 seconds and not say anything at all.

[Arben]

Remember Ahhhhnold's roundtable "non-debate?"

"I haven't thought about doing a 4th Terminator, but if I did, I know who I would cast as the female villian."

[Anthony]

good. which means it is a better one. you can actually express yourself and not bs for 30 seconds and not say anything at all.The show is only an hour.

[PetreTG]

Ron Paul Vows to Take Campaign to NH

17 hours ago


DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Republican Ron Paul vowed Thursday night to continue his presidential campaign into New Hampshire and other states.


"This is not the end. This is the beginning," the Texas congressman told a boisterous gathering of about 150 people at a downtown Des Moines hotel.
The crowd interrupted Paul at times, chanting "Live free or die" and "Ron Paul."


"I am more encouraged than ever before," he said.


Although Paul finished in fifth place, he noted that he was ahead of former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.


"We the people, who care about the country and the constitution," Paul said. "I don't think we're going to let it die."


Paul, a 10-term member of Congress, has waged an unusual campaign that matched his libertarian views with events involving a blimp and the re-enactment of the Boston Tea Party.


Paul opposes the Iraq war, opposes the federal income tax and urges Americans to push for a fiscally responsible government.


Much media attention has been focused on his Internet-based fundraising, which drew more than $18 million in the final three months of the year.

[PetreTG]

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/article/pieces/wpLogo_250x42.gif


Ron Paul Hits Huckabee on Taxes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/01/03/PH2008010303208.jpg
A Ron Paul mailer.

By Matthew Mosk

Apparently, there's only room in the Republican presidential field for one candidate who wants to abolish the IRS. At least that seems to be the message in a new Ron Paul mailing in New Hampshire. The glossy flyer from the Texas congressman and maverick presidential contender does not target the two Republicans who lead in the polls there (Mitt Romney and John McCain); it instead goes after Iowa caucus winner Mike Huckabee, calling him a "habitual tax hiker."


Paul has been putting to use his $20 million fourth-quarter fundraising haul with a series of mailings, though this is the first to go negative. The piece also carries two photographs -- one shows two former Arkansas governors -- Huckabee and former President Bill Clinton -- in a frame together. The other shows Paul with Ronald Reagan (though does not mention that Paul eventually criticized Reagan as a "failure.")


The latest polls in New Hampshire show Huckabee charging further ahead of Paul, with Huckabee fighting with Rudy Giuliani for third place, and Paul stuck in fifth.

[PetreTG]

Thank you! (http://feeds.feedburner.com/%7Er/RonPaul2008/%7E3/211345725/thank-you.html) (1/4/08)

Yesterday was a remarkable day for Ron Paul, and it wouldn’t have happened without you.

For those of you who haven’t yet heard, Ron Paul took over 10% in yesterday’s Iowa caucus, handily beating Rudy Giuliani and finishing right behind both Fred Thompson and John McCain. This despite that Rudy Giuliani made more visits to Iowa than Ron Paul. And, entrance polls showed that Ron Paul took first place (29%) among independent Republicans!

This campaign is just beginning, and we are starting off better than anyone in the “mainstream” media imagined.

Back in February 2007, no one gave Ron Paul any chance to succeed in this race. Ron Paul did not have the name recognition of other candidates, nor the financial resources. Essentially, Ron Paul started at a level of 0% in all 50 states.

But then, as we know, something started to happen. Americans started to hear this message of freedom, and began to galvanize behind the cause. It’s no small feat that we brought in 10% yesterday in Iowa, a double-digit turnout that has brought a lot of commentary – even from Fox News!

Just last night, Greta van Sustern had this to say:
"Ten per cent is not insignificant - that's a huge number. Here you have a candidate that 10 per cent of the people caucused in his party really want him and it's not like he's an insignificant player. He didn't just drop in yesterday to the process, he has been running for president for a long time, and certainly many of the issues he's raised are rather provocative and certainly stimulate the debate; that's not a bad thing."

This election is just getting started. It’s time to mobilize and do what needs to be done. It’s time to win the most important election of our lifetime.

[atomicdOGg34]

congrats to ron paul, that was a good showing last night imo

this is proof that paul deserves to be at that fox roundtable, they used the excuse they only wanted guys who had a chance of being elected, well paul came in 4th (there was a tie for 3rd) and he BEAT guiliani, by alot i might add

:bears:

also :bears: huckabee!

[Haymaker]

yeah!! :clap: you see petreTG?? this is what I was talking about, throw them low blows paul!!




http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/article/pieces/wpLogo_250x42.gif


Ron Paul Hits Huckabee on Taxes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/01/03/PH2008010303208.jpg
A Ron Paul mailer.

By Matthew Mosk

Apparently, there's only room in the Republican presidential field for one candidate who wants to abolish the IRS. At least that seems to be the message in a new Ron Paul mailing in New Hampshire. The glossy flyer from the Texas congressman and maverick presidential contender does not target the two Republicans who lead in the polls there (Mitt Romney and John McCain); it instead goes after Iowa caucus winner Mike Huckabee, calling him a "habitual tax hiker."


Paul has been putting to use his $20 million fourth-quarter fundraising haul with a series of mailings, though this is the first to go negative. The piece also carries two photographs -- one shows two former Arkansas governors -- Huckabee and former President Bill Clinton -- in a frame together. The other shows Paul with Ronald Reagan (though does not mention that Paul eventually criticized Reagan as a "failure.")


The latest polls in New Hampshire show Huckabee charging further ahead of Paul, with Huckabee fighting with Rudy Giuliani for third place, and Paul stuck in fifth.

[Rubio MHS]

Basically, Ron Paul is tired of the national debt being so small, and he wants it to become a respectable number, no?

[Haymaker]

Basically, Ron Paul is tired of the national debt being so small, and he wants it to become a respectable number, no? you don't know politics :notallthere:

[PetreTG]

yeah!! :clap: you see petreTG?? this is what I was talking about, throw them low blows paul!!

I have read that some now say this line is out of charachter for Paul ... but IMO it's right in line with it .

He's simply telling the truth like he always does. :clap:

[PetreTG]

BTW ... I find it a bit odd that the entrence polls which usually run pretty close to the outcome ... had Paul winning with 29% but when the "official" numbers came in (tallied by a third party) Ron Paul places 5th. :dunno:

[atomicdOGg34]

if you like paul so much petre why dont you offer your money and services, fly out and help organize and spread his message?

dont just talk about it, make it happen!

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

BTW ... I find it a bit odd that the entrence polls which usually run pretty close to the outcome ... had Paul winning with 29% but when the "official" numbers came in (tallied by a third party) Ron Paul places 5th. :dunno:

maybe ron paul supporters are a bunch of teenybooping hippies...

[Haymaker]

if you like paul so much petre why dont you offer your money and services, fly out and help organize and spread his message?

dont just talk about it, make it happen!

he already gave money, I think....but he suffered an accident man, let him recover :old:

[atomicdOGg34]

he already gave money, I think....but he suffered an accident man, let him recover :old:

what he throw his back out lugging his sacks of cash around?

[Haymaker]

what he throw his back out lugging his sacks of cash around?

motorcycle accident.....trying to break evil knievel's record or something

[atomicdOGg34]

motorcycle accident.....trying to break evil knievel's record or something

:lol:

[Orthodox Crusader]

On the Irish news, they told me that

Obama won the Iowa thang.
Somebody came second.
The whore came third.

And
That Romney/Huckabee/Huckabee/Romney came 1st or 2nd for the Reps.

I didn't hear about anyone called Paul.

[PetreTG]

if you like paul so much petre why dont you offer your money and services, fly out and help organize and spread his message?

dont just talk about it, make it happen!

How do you know what I am or am not doing ?

[PetreTG]

:lol:

I rolled my beemer down the highway at about 55-60 mph wearing gym shoes , shorts and a t-shirt.

[PetreTG]

Ron Paul Narrowly Misses Third Place Finish (http://us.altermedia.info/news-of-interest-to-white-people/ron-paul-narrowly-misses-third-place-finish_2859.html)

Posted in:
European American News (http://us.altermedia.info/category/news-of-interest-to-white-people) — @ 3:11 am
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Romney and Huckabee spent months and millions in Iowa.
by James Buchanan
http://us.altermedia.info//images/a2-results.jpg
There wasn’t much chance of Ron Paul doing better than third place in Iowa, and he came within just a few percent of that goal, finishing right on the heels of Fred Thompson and John McCain. Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee had spent about four months each in that state. Romney spent about $10 million and Huckabee spent much of the $5 million he rose in the fourth quarter there. The mainstream media also showered Mike Huckabee with a flood of positive reporting for the last two months. Mike Huckabee is a closet liberal, and the media wants him to rise up as the Republican candidate.


Still, what sort of victory was Iowa for Huckabee? How proud can a candidate be when he spends four months of his time in just one state and “wins” the state with a third of the vote (not even a majority)?


Any news about Ron Paul has been virtually blacked out by the mainstream media. The media totally ignored the blimp Paul’s supporters got him –even though it would have been a big story for any other candidate. The media gave only reluctant coverage for the two big fund-raisers which Ron Paul supporters staged, even though one fund raiser set an all time one-day record.


The media and the pollsters have endlessly insisted that Ron Paul was in the low single digits. Maybe it was good that they set the expectations for Ron Paul so low. Now that Ron Paul finished with ten percent in the Iowa caucus, maybe more Americans will see him as a viable candidate.


The New Hampshire Primary is coming up soon, and the Republicans in New Hampshire have traditionally voted for candidates who believe in freedom and the Constitution like Ron Paul. If Ron Paul does well in the New Hampshire race, it will be a huge boost for his campaign, and the mainstream media will have an impossible time ignoring Paul from that point on.

[Black Market Baby]

BTW ... I find it a bit odd that the entrence polls which usually run pretty close to the outcome ... had Paul winning with 29% but when the "official" numbers came in (tallied by a third party) Ron Paul places 5th. :dunno:


Ok, this is just wrong on your part. When you check the demographics of people going to the polls Ron Paul won 29% of people who identified themselves as INDEPENDENT, not total amount of voters.

Check the poll demographics. That 29% is actually 13% of the total people who participated in the Republican Caucus. If 100 people went to caucus, 13 of them said they were independents. Of those 13 people, 29% of them said they liked Paul. This means that the amount of votes he would get from people claiming to be independent would be 3.77 per 100. Simple math.

Maybe you misunderstood the data, but it's right there for everyone to see.

edit- And just for the record, I think 10% is pretty good. He kicked Guiliani's ass, which is funny although Guiliani didn't campaign in Iowa at all. In any case, the media isn't giving any press to Biden or Dodd either, except for the fact that they dropped out. The press doesn't care unless you come in at least third. 5th place ain't special. If he does a 3rd or possibly 4th in NH then you can expect press. As of yet, there is no foul.

[PetreTG]

Ok, this is just wrong on your part. When you check the demographics of people going to the polls Ron Paul won 29% of people who identified themselves as INDEPENDENT, not total amount of voters.

Check the poll demographics. That 29% is actually 13% of the total people who participated in the Republican Caucus. If 100 people went to caucus, 13 of them said they were independents. Of those 13 people, 29% of them said they liked Paul. This means that the amount of votes he would get from people claiming to be independent would be 3.77 per 100. Simple math.

Maybe you misunderstood the data, but it's right there for everyone to see.

I quoted an article and gave the link.

Can I have your source for this ? I'll be sure to send it to Ron Pauls campaign office so they can fix the article.

[PetreTG]

BTW ... if you're referring to the article I posted it refers to them as independent REPUBLICANs.

Not Independents.

But please correct me and I will definitely send the info to the proper people to correct the story.

[Rubio MHS]

BTW ... if you're referring to the article I posted it refers to them as independent REPUBLICANs.

Not Independents.

But please correct me and I will definitely send the info to the proper people to correct the story.What the fuck is an independent Republican?

[Black Market Baby]

Yeah, it's a bad bit of writing to tell you the truth, what is an idependent republican. It was just clever wording to provide a clever spin.

In any case here is a link...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21228177/
scroll down to PARTY ID.

I think a reasonable person would be able to see that to make the distinction of an independent republican would most likely mean independents at a republican caucus.

Otherwise why make use of the adjective "independent" to distinguish one republican caucus goes over another?

[atomicdOGg34]

How do you know what I am or am not doing ?

well i assume since your on here posting ron paul stuff 22 hours out of the day you dont have time for anything else

:lol:

[Rubio MHS]

well i assume since your on here posting ron paul stuff 22 hours out of the day you dont have time for anything else

:lol::bears: :cheer: :doh:

[PetreTG]

Yeah, it's a bad bit of writing to tell you the truth, what is an idependent republican. It was just clever wording to provide a clever spin.

In any case here is a link...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21228177/
scroll down to PARTY ID.

I think a reasonable person would be able to see that to make the distinction of an independent republican would most likely mean independents at a republican caucus.

Otherwise why make use of the adjective "independent" to distinguish one republican caucus goes over another?

That's a link to EXIT polls not Entrance polls.

[Black Market Baby]

Show me an "Independent Republican"
Show me data that supports the 29% you speak of is the entirety of the people who participated in the (R)Iowa Caucus (republicans and independents).

Paul never had 29% of people on his side in the caucus.

[PetreTG]

Show me an "Independent Republican"
Show me data that supports the 29% you speak of is the entirety of the people who participated in the (R)Iowa Caucus (republicans and independents).

Paul never had 29% of people on his side in the caucus.

I didn't write the article ...

Maybe you should contact the Ron Paul campaign and challenge their claim and ask for clarification. :clap:

[Black Market Baby]

You said you were gonna do that. I don't give a fuck, I just don't like bias being spewed here that isn't true. The people here have just as much right to get the real picture as everyone else.

[Rubio MHS]

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa31/Decagon1/RIPRonPaul.gif

[TKO]

Hey Petre what do you think of Pauls chances after the first vote...?

Snowballs...

[PetreTG]

You said you were gonna do that. I don't give a fuck, I just don't like bias being spewed here that isn't true. The people here have just as much right to get the real picture as everyone else.
You haven't proven anything untrue ...

You posted an exit poll link as your source when the article said ENTRANCE POLLS.

You are spewing your own biased opinion to counter my unbiased posting of an ARTICLE I DIDN'T WRITE and using inaccurate source and bias as a counter arguement.

[PetreTG]

<table cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="650"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2">:bears:
http://images.politico.com/global/politico_print2.gif (http://www.politico.com/)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"> N.H. GOP backs out of Fox GOP forum
By: Kenneth P. Vogel
January 5, 2008 08:23 PM EST
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="story" valign="top"> In protest of Fox News’ excluding Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter from its GOP presidential candidates forum Sunday, the New Hampshire state Republican Party has withdrawn its sponsorship of the forum.

The forum is the last chance for voters to see the Republican candidates face-off before New Hampshire’s first-in-the-nation primary Tuesday. And party Chairman Fergus Cullen said Fox’s decision to limit participation runs counter to the primary’s “national purpose.”


“Only in New Hampshire do lesser-known, lesser-funded underdogs have a fighting chance to establish themselves as national figures,” Cullen said in a statement posted on the party’s website (http://www.nhgop.org/).

Fox has invited former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, former Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

Cullen told Politico that he had asked Fox News last week to allow Paul and Hunter at the forum, which will be moderated by Chris Wallace at the network’s temporary studio at St. Anselm’s College in Manchester, N.H., and broadcast at 8 p.m.

“Our mutual efforts to resolve this difference have failed,” Cullen's statement said, adding “the New Hampshire Republican Party hereby withdraws as a partner in this forum.”

Fox did not respond to specific questions about Paul or the criteria used to issue invites, instead issuing a non-response response from Vice President of News David Rhodes, reading: "We look forward to presenting a substantive forum which will serve as the first program of its kind this election season."

Fox had previously said it only invited candidates who were polling in the double-digits in recent national polls.

<!--&mdash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash ;dash;dash;end sidebar&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdash;--> National polls averaged by Real Clear Politics show Paul, a Texas congressman, polling at about 4 percent, behind the five invited candidates. But he drew nearly 10 percent of the support in Thursday’s Iowa caucuses — well ahead of Giuliani — and was polling near 10 percent in New Hampshire — again ahead of Giuliani, as well as Thompson.

The Paul campaign praised Cullen and blasted Fox in a statement.

"Fox News' decision to exclude Congressman Paul is unfair, but it won't stop Dr. Paul's message of freedom, peace and prosperity from resonating with the people of New Hampshire," said campaign spokesman Jesse Benton. He told Politico that the campaign wouldn’t hold any protest event at the same time as the forum, but rather would “just buy our own airtime and reach New Hampshire voters ourselves.”

Paul’s zealous community of Internet supporters, who helped him raise $20 million in the last three months of 2007 (more than any other GOP candidate), have also lashed out at Fox over the last few days, urging protest e-mails and boycotts of the network (http://www.ronaldholland.com/protestfox.htm).

Paul will, however, be able to participate in tonight’s ABC-WMUR debate. But it won’t include Hunter, a California congressman. ABC said it was excluding him — as well as Democrats Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel — from tonight's Democratic because they did poorly in Iowa and haven’t showed well in recent polls.

Cullen also encouraged ABC to open its debate, telling Politico “it’s not all about Fox and it’s not all about Ron Paul.”
</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Anthony]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=650><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2>:bears:
http://images.politico.com/global/politico_print2.gif (http://www.politico.com/)
</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>N.H. GOP backs out of Fox GOP forum
By: Kenneth P. Vogel
January 5, 2008 08:23 PM EST

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=story vAlign=top colSpan=2>In protest of Fox News’ excluding Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter from its GOP presidential candidates forum Sunday, the New Hampshire state Republican Party has withdrawn its sponsorship of the forum.

The forum is the last chance for voters to see the Republican candidates face-off before New Hampshire’s first-in-the-nation primary Tuesday. And party Chairman Fergus Cullen said Fox’s decision to limit participation runs counter to the primary’s “national purpose.”


“Only in New Hampshire do lesser-known, lesser-funded underdogs have a fighting chance to establish themselves as national figures,” Cullen said in a statement posted on the party’s website (http://www.nhgop.org/).

Fox has invited former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, former Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

Cullen told Politico that he had asked Fox News last week to allow Paul and Hunter at the forum, which will be moderated by Chris Wallace at the network’s temporary studio at St. Anselm’s College in Manchester, N.H., and broadcast at 8 p.m.

“Our mutual efforts to resolve this difference have failed,” Cullen's statement said, adding “the New Hampshire Republican Party hereby withdraws as a partner in this forum.”

Fox did not respond to specific questions about Paul or the criteria used to issue invites, instead issuing a non-response response from Vice President of News David Rhodes, reading: "We look forward to presenting a substantive forum which will serve as the first program of its kind this election season."

Fox had previously said it only invited candidates who were polling in the double-digits in recent national polls.

<!--&mdash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash;dash ;dash;dash;end sidebar&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdas&mdash;-->National polls averaged by Real Clear Politics show Paul, a Texas congressman, polling at about 4 percent, behind the five invited candidates. But he drew nearly 10 percent of the support in Thursday’s Iowa caucuses — well ahead of Giuliani — and was polling near 10 percent in New Hampshire — again ahead of Giuliani, as well as Thompson.

The Paul campaign praised Cullen and blasted Fox in a statement.

"Fox News' decision to exclude Congressman Paul is unfair, but it won't stop Dr. Paul's message of freedom, peace and prosperity from resonating with the people of New Hampshire," said campaign spokesman Jesse Benton. He told Politico that the campaign wouldn’t hold any protest event at the same time as the forum, but rather would “just buy our own airtime and reach New Hampshire voters ourselves.”

Paul’s zealous community of Internet supporters, who helped him raise $20 million in the last three months of 2007 (more than any other GOP candidate), have also lashed out at Fox over the last few days, urging protest e-mails and boycotts of the network (http://www.ronaldholland.com/protestfox.htm).

Paul will, however, be able to participate in tonight’s ABC-WMUR debate. But it won’t include Hunter, a California congressman. ABC said it was excluding him — as well as Democrats Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel — from tonight's Democratic because they did poorly in Iowa and haven’t showed well in recent polls.

Cullen also encouraged ABC to open its debate, telling Politico “it’s not all about Fox and it’s not all about Ron Paul.”

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Ron Had his chance to talk last night. He was laughed at by his peers.

[Rubio MHS]

Why not start a "THE DAILY DUNCAN" topic, Pedro? Chuck Yeagar supports Hunter, and Chuck Yeagar is much less of a pathetic loser than you are. Shouldn't we take his opinion over yours?

[Arben]

Ron Paul Narrowly Misses Third Place Finish (http://us.altermedia.info/news-of-interest-to-white-people/ron-paul-narrowly-misses-third-place-finish_2859.html)

Posted in:
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Romney and Huckabee spent months and millions in Iowa.
by James Buchanan
http://us.altermedia.info//images/a2-results.jpg
There wasn’t much chance of Ron Paul doing better than third place in Iowa, and he came within just a few percent of that goal, finishing right on the heels of Fred Thompson and John McCain. Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee had spent about four months each in that state. Romney spent about $10 million and Huckabee spent much of the $5 million he rose in the fourth quarter there. The mainstream media also showered Mike Huckabee with a flood of positive reporting for the last two months. Mike Huckabee is a closet liberal, and the media wants him to rise up as the Republican candidate.


Still, what sort of victory was Iowa for Huckabee? How proud can a candidate be when he spends four months of his time in just one state and “wins” the state with a third of the vote (not even a majority)?


Any news about Ron Paul has been virtually blacked out by the mainstream media. The media totally ignored the blimp Paul’s supporters got him –even though it would have been a big story for any other candidate. The media gave only reluctant coverage for the two big fund-raisers which Ron Paul supporters staged, even though one fund raiser set an all time one-day record.


The media and the pollsters have endlessly insisted that Ron Paul was in the low single digits. Maybe it was good that they set the expectations for Ron Paul so low. Now that Ron Paul finished with ten percent in the Iowa caucus, maybe more Americans will see him as a viable candidate.


The New Hampshire Primary is coming up soon, and the Republicans in New Hampshire have traditionally voted for candidates who believe in freedom and the Constitution like Ron Paul. If Ron Paul does well in the New Hampshire race, it will be a huge boost for his campaign, and the mainstream media will have an impossible time ignoring Paul from that point on.
So when will this 24 hour Ron Paul love fest of a website amend the story or create a new one showing it wasn't as close as this terrible website says it was?

[PetreTG]

Ron Had his chance to talk last night. He was laughed at by his peers.

That's because most all those jack ass's don't understand what he's saying (Which was all truth) Also truth , something most politicians shun , makes some laugh nervously.

Nothing Paul said was not fact.

What the others said , is what they thought the easily fooled want to hear.

Congratulations .... you obviously fall into that catagory.

[Rubio MHS]

Nothing Paul said was not fact.You mean, he didn't give his opinion? He just read facts? I'm glad I got drunk on mojitos, practiced a Chopin prelude and listened to Jackson C. Frank instead of watching that moron read facts.

[PetreTG]

Did you pull that pole outta your ass yet ole cranky boy ? :dunno:

[Rubio MHS]

Did you pull that pole outta your ass yet ole cranky boy ? :dunno:You're a whiny, paranoid hobbit who stockpiles gold and canned goods because you're afraid of the end of civilization. You really shouldn't talk about anyone else having a stick up his ass.

[PetreTG]

A soldier speaks out about the war in Iraq and Ron Paul's take on it vs Hucksterbee's. Lb4Lb you should like this ... :clap:
----------------------------

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[PetreTG]

You're a whiny, paranoid hobbit who stockpiles gold and canned goods because you're afraid of the end of civilization. You really shouldn't talk about anyone else having a stick up his ass.

Looks who's calling someone whiny ... the biggest bitch on fightbeat.

Change your tampon punk ... you've been on the rag too long and I think that shit's gone toxic 'cause all you do is attack, bitch and moan like a crazy nonsensical little girl.

[Rubio MHS]

Looks who's calling someone whiny ... the biggest bitch on fightbeat.

Change your tampon punk ... you've been on the rag too long and I think that shit's gone toxic 'cause all you do is attack, bitch and moan like a crazy nonsensical little girl.No, that's what you do. I merely poke fun at people now and then.

Also, that's a mixed metaphor. How could I be on the rag and be a little girl? Are you suggesting that I'm short? Or are you suggesting that because of the consumption of beef, I've gotten my period early from eating too many hormones?

Hobbit.

[Black Market Baby]

You haven't proven anything untrue ...

You posted an exit poll link as your source when the article said ENTRANCE POLLS.

You are spewing your own biased opinion to counter my unbiased posting of an ARTICLE I DIDN'T WRITE and using inaccurate source and bias as a counter arguement.

Ok, then I misunderstood the jist of your post. You posted that he got 29% of independent republicans (whatever those are) on entrance polls.

To that I say, oh well...too bad, the actual caucus results didn't work out in his favor then.

Entrance polls don't mean shit, much like exit polls don't mean shit. What counts are the results. The only difference between your entrance poll data and my exit poll data is that my exit poll data coincides with the actual results. In fact, if you are able to intepret the data like a rational human being then you would also see that my exit poll data pretty much coincides with what your post talked about IF you leave out those imaginary independent republicans.

My source wasn't inaccurate, yours was...or at least your interpretation of it. Seriously, show me a few "republican independents".

Was it not your point to say that these "independent republicans" somehow constituted a large voting block in which the end results of the caucus didn't balance out with? If it's not then explain it to us.

There is no bias on my part, I'm just pointing out you misinterpreted something you read because of your bias.

Fuck Petre, even people on the Ron Paul forums are in agreement with me. They had a great turnout in Iowa, better than expected, but they didn't have enough people. In fact, in a few cases people have been complaining that more people didn't take the lead as representatives for Pauls people and try to get more people together.

[Rubio MHS]

This is Pedro in a nutshell:

He's too stupid to write his own post about politics, so he copies and pastes articles from other websites.
He's too stupid to find good articles, so he usually uses articles from uneducated bloggers.
Because those bloggers are so stupid, the articles he pastes are usually wrong and stupid.
When he gets called out on how stupid the articles he posts, he says, "I didn't write it," defensively.

[Punk]

I gather that Paul has about zero chance?

[Anthony]

I gather that Paul has about zero chance?Who?

[Rubio MHS]

Pedro's admitted that Paul stands no chance. I offered him a 50:1 bet, and he turned it down.

[Punk]

Who?

I don't know.

[PetreTG]

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[Haymaker]

Paul failed in the debate because he didn't sell himself, you never said him say: "when elected as president, I wil...." , he just voiced his opinion but didn't promised anything...also the moderator always gave him the last turn, and spent too much time between romney and mccain.

[Arben]

Paul failed in the debate because he didn't sell himself, you never said him say: "when elected as president, I wil...." , he just voiced his opinion but didn't promised anything...also the moderator always gave him the last turn, and spent too much time between romney and mccain.
He also proved that he has no healthcare plan whatsoever.

Basically, he said, "The economy will be better, so these people will have more money to spend when they have to pay these high bills!"

Wow! Great problems solving skills, Ron!

Ron Paul and his supporters constantly say how his ideas benefit the working class, but in reality, ALL of his ideas benefit big business WAY more than the American middle class.

[PetreTG]

Since Paul was excluded from Fox's round table debate ... they did a one on one town hall meeting with him that was aired on PB I believe ....

Here Paul get's asked questions from the audience and gets to explain in detail his stance.

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[phonetap]

He also proved that he has no healthcare plan whatsoever.

Basically, he said, "The economy will be better, so these people will have more money to spend when they have to pay these high bills!"

Wow! Great problems solving skills, Ron!

Ron Paul and his supporters constantly say how his ideas benefit the working class, but in reality, ALL of his ideas benefit big business WAY more than the American middle class.

in the free market society he champions...that appears to be the case.

[Arben]

Since Paul was excluded from Fox's round table debate ... they did a one on one town hall meeting with him that was aired on PB I believe ....

Here Paul get's asked questions from the audience and gets to explain in detail his stance.

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Well, I just started watching, and they've already gotten wrong numbers out there.

Paul did not miss out of third place by three points. It was more like five without the final four percent reporting.

So far, I've twice seen pro Ron Paul reports get the figures wrong. The "alternative" media sources are just as bad as the mainstream.

[PetreTG]

He also proved that he has no healthcare plan whatsoever.

Basically, he said, "The economy will be better, so these people will have more money to spend when they have to pay these high bills!"

Wow! Great problems solving skills, Ron!

Ron Paul and his supporters constantly say how his ideas benefit the working class, but in reality, ALL of his ideas benefit big business WAY more than the American middle class.

Oh you mean in the short sound bite amount of time they give him ?

Not only is Ron Paul by FAR and away the most educated economist of ALL the candidates who's been proven correct time and again ... but as a practicing physician for over 50 years I'll bet you he knows the system better than any of the talking heads as well.

[PetreTG]

in the free market society he champions...that appears to be the case.

I'm surprised to hear YOU of all the people on this board say that. I thought you knew more about economics.

[Arben]

Oh you mean in the short sound bite amount of time they give him ?

Not only is Ron Paul by FAR and away the most educated economist of ALL the candidates who's been proven correct time and again ... but as a practicing physician for over 50 years I'll bet you he knows the system better than any of the talking heads as well.
Yeah, 50 years on the other side of the table. I bet that if they were turned, he would think differently. The talking heads who know nothing should tell you alot, since at least they try to come up with a comprimise so that all people can actually get healthcare. Everyone wants reform, and little Ronnie Paul is the only one who doesn't. Instead, he promotes big business getting bigger, which in turn, makes them more powerful, and finally, makes the middle class working America more and more marginalized.

And the short sound bite wasn't so short, because I've seen him say pretty much just that other times! Even in videos that you have posted here.

[PetreTG]

Yeah, 50 years on the other side of the table. I bet that if they were turned, he would think differently. The talking heads who know nothing should tell you alot, since at least they try to come up with a comprimise so that all people can actually get healthcare. Everyone wants reform, and little Ronnie Paul is the only one who doesn't. Instead, he promotes big business getting bigger, which in turn, makes them more powerful, and finally, makes the middle class working America more and more marginalized.

And the short sound bite wasn't so short, because I've seen him say pretty much just that other times! Even in videos that you have posted here.
Post it .... I've heard Paul talk about how to reform the health care system and it's the only plan that truly makes sense without our country going bankrupt.

And THE LAST THING Big Business wants is free markets . Big Business is all about monopolies. Free markets creates competition and drives prices down as well as gives the consumers choice.

[Arben]

Somewhere in this thread. He's wearing a sweater. It was a few days back.

I can't sift through videos very quickly from work, so I can't point out the video any time soon.

Basically, he says that more people will have more money to spend on healthcare. He doesn't answer the question.

[Rubio MHS]

And THE LAST THING Big Business wants is free markets . Big Business is all about monopolies. Free markets creates competition and drives prices down as well as gives the consumers choice.But Ron Paul is more a laissez-faire capitalist than an Adam-Smith/Teddy-Roosevelt capitalist. Big Business loves that. It's quite naïve of you not to know the difference.

[PetreTG]

But Ron Paul is more a laissez-faire capitalist than an Adam-Smith/Teddy-Roosevelt capitalist. Big Business loves that. It's quite naïve of you not to know the difference.

I see you must have visited Wikipedia ... Impressive. :rolleyes:

And ... NO he's not.

[Rubio MHS]

I see you must have visited Wikipedia ... Impressive. :rolleyes:

And ... NO he's not.I know he's talking about breaking up monopolies, but that kind of conflicts with him being a libertarian and everything.

[r o o s t e r]

Somewhere in this thread. He's wearing a sweater. It was a few days back.

seriously??! jesus christ... a sweater.

[Arben]

seriously??! jesus christ... a sweater.
It stood out. A dark sweater over his shirt & tie. It stood out because I haven't really seen anyone wear one.

[Cheo Malanga]

I know he's talking about breaking up monopolies, but that kind of conflicts with him being a libertarian and everything.

how does that conflict with being a libertarian?

[Cheo Malanga]

arben, the more you open your mouth, or move your fingers, the more i convice myself of what an idiot you are. i don't mean to insult but you truly have no clue.

[Arben]

arben, the more you open your mouth, or move your fingers, the more i convice myself of what an idiot you are. i don't mean to insult but you truly have no clue.
Please explain.

EDIT: Am I wrong in saying that Ron Paul's stance on healthcare is that he will fix the economy and in turn, people will have more money to spend on high bills?

[Cheo Malanga]

your whole view on health care prices and how ron paul has no clue because he doesn't have a cookie cutter useless plans that won't solve anything like all the other candidates.

the problem is not the like of insurance, but the cost of health care. a health savings account and all that other b.s. won't change the fact that the prices are extremely high.

you can either put a bandaid over the wound, which is what this plans are, and find a way to finance it or you can tackle the problem head on and find out why these prices are so high and take the actions necessary to change the situation. the point ron paul made about inflation is a real one and one of the main reasons why the cost of health care is so high (relative). you got to think outside the box for once in your life, you are not a kid anymore, and see things for what they are.

[Arben]

your whole view on health care prices and how ron paul has no clue because he doesn't have a cookie cutter useless plans that won't solve anything like all the other candidates.

the problem is not the like of insurance, but the cost of health care. a health savings account and all that other b.s. won't change the fact that the prices are extremely high.
So you're saying that having no plan whatsoever (because that's what he's offering) is better than having at least something?


you can either put a bandaid over the wound, which is what this plans are, and find a way to finance it or you can tackle the problem head on and find out why these prices are so high and take the actions necessary to change the situation. the point ron paul made about inflation is a real one and one of the main reasons why the cost of health care is so high (relative). you got to think outside the box for once in your life, you are not a kid anymore, and see things for what they are.
Again, inflation is not the only problem. As an economist, he brings forth some excellent ideas, but in healthcare, he has no idea. That's all I'm stating, and unless he can prove otherwise, it's true. Because that's his whole stance on it.

His policies support big business, and the people in charge are the ones that benefit. Not the common man. Unless he can prove otherwise (which he can't because he openly admits that his policies support big business), it's true.

I think you need to rethink who you call an idiot, buddy, because you're being played for a fool.

[Cheo Malanga]

you obviously can stand in the forest and not see the tree.

so basically you want your candidates to offer yo a bull shit plan and lie to you. if they don't do that then they are no good.

that's what gave us no child left behind. i rather have no plan than having no child left behind.

[Arben]

you obviously can stand in the forest and not see the tree.

so basically you want your candidates to offer yo a bull shit plan and lie to you. if they don't do that then they are no good.

that's what gave us no child left behind. i rather have no plan than having no child left behind.
Please explain to me how their plans are bullshit?

Because Petre says so?

[PetreTG]

Please explain to me how their plans are bullshit?

Because Petre says so?

Simple question Arben ... Do you think this country can afford a national healthcare program ?

See , just like Rubio tried to offer me something he could never pay on , that is what the others that offer this type of program are doing.

The entire system has to be fixed now which has encouraged extreme price gouging , poor service , little choice and high cost often unnecessary procedures and prescriptions.

Ron has been warning about this for 20 years that this problem was coming and he , once again has been proven correct.

We have a mess ... and empty promises aint gonna fix it .

[Explosivo]

It is rare that it happens...but once again, the American public are presented with their best choice and their best chance...and I hope that we take advantage of him this time.

We dropped the ball on Perot and Nader...selfmade guys who were smart enough to understand that the American public was being cheated by big buisiness buerocrats, and decided to expose and try to help.

Don't let Paul be the third in the past 20 years

[Arben]

Simple question Arben ... Do you think this country can afford a national healthcare program ?

See , just like Rubio tried to offer me something he could never pay on , that is what the others that offer this type of program are doing.

The entire system has to be fixed now which has encouraged extreme price gouging , poor service , little choice and high cost often unnecessary procedures and prescriptions.

Ron has been warning about this for 20 years that this problem was coming and he , once again has been proven correct.

We have a mess ... and empty promises aint gonna fix it .
Taxes and time, my friend.

Now answer me this, Paul preches bringing the troops in from all over the world because we're wasting a trillion dollars a year. Yet he also preaches getting rid of the IRS, which brings in a trillion dollars a year. Where's the benefit in that when it comes to the economy?

Paul will just take us full circle to nowheresville.

Is Ron Paul's healthcare plan the best one available?

His policies are full of holes.

[Rubio MHS]

Simple question Arben ... Do you think this country can afford a national healthcare program ?Yeah. It's much cheaper to deal with sick people in the emergency room.

Seriously, are you completely retarded when it comes to everything? I mean, it's stupid to insinuate that there isn't a cheaper alternative to the current system.

[Haymaker]

Taxes and time, my friend.

Now answer me this, Paul preches bringing the troops in from all over the world because we're wasting a trillion dollars a year. Yet he also preaches getting rid of the IRS, which brings in a trillion dollars a year. Where's the benefit in that when it comes to the economy?

Paul will just take us full circle to nowheresville.

Is Ron Paul's healthcare plan the best one available?

His policies are full of holes.

what paul want is for the US to concentrate on developing the internal economy, do like china and build up until the debts are relieved and to stop the IRS from taxing our asses out. It's the smartest thing to do.

[Tyler Durden]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/ron-paul-is-scary-but-th_b_79495.html

:popcorn:

[Cheo Malanga]

well abden. if i had the more than 10K a year they take from me in taxes i would have a lot more money to invest in my retirement and pay for my own health care. as it is, i really can not afford it.

yes, this country could afford a universal health care plan. but in the current condition it would only be possible by further taxing us and i already pay enough taxes as it is. the only way possible would be by streamlining government and cutting expenses. the only candidate advocating for such a thing is ron paul.

you know, i got a small savings account, not much money in it really. the interest rate does not cover inflation. yet, i get taxed on my interest earned money, that it is really no earning because my money is devaluing. so basically, the government is arbitrarily taking money from me. don't you think we should do something about things like that.

[Cheo Malanga]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/ron-paul-is-scary-but-th_b_79495.html

:popcorn:

that guy is a racist out of the same cloth as jesse jackson and al sharpton.

[Arben]

well abden. if i had the more than 10K a year they take from me in taxes i would have a lot more money to invest in my retirement and pay for my own health care. as it is, i really can not afford it.

yes, this country could afford a universal health care plan. but in the current condition it would only be possible by further taxing us and i already pay enough taxes as it is. the only way possible would be by streamlining government and cutting expenses. the only candidate advocating for such a thing is ron paul.

you know, i got a small savings account, not much money in it really. the interest rate does not cover inflation. yet, i get taxed on my interest earned money, that it is really no earning because my money is devaluing. so basically, the government is arbitrarily taking money from me. don't you think we should do something about things like that.
How many people do you know that are barely making it through paycheck to paycheck?

I know more than enough to know that they won't save a dime for their health, regular savings, social security, whatever...

Basically, what Ron Paul is doing is sweeping it under the rug.

"No healthcare? Well, you should have had some."

Basically, he's trying to push the blame as far away from the government as possible.

Do you know what a universal healthcare system does? Saves the citizens money and STILL guarantee you healthcare.

It works everywhere else, but it CANT work here, right?

Give me a break.

[PetreTG]

It is rare that it happens...but once again, the American public are presented with their best choice and their best chance...and I hope that we take advantage of him this time.

We dropped the ball on Perot and Nader...selfmade guys who were smart enough to understand that the American public was being cheated by big buisiness buerocrats, and decided to expose and try to help.

Don't let Paul be the third in the past 20 years
I think it's safe to say America isn't smart enough to see the truth.

Even guys I thought were smarter and for a minute , expressed Ron Paul as the right choice are now talking about being 100% undecided ... in other words , swayed back into the mire and ready to be led to choose between two bowls of shit because that's what everyone else is doing.

American's no longer have the balls to stand up and fight. The powers have won.

[Arben]

Idiots at their finest. A Ron Paul mob replaces torches and pitchforks for buttons and Ron Paul posters as they chase Sean Hannity out of a restaurant and down the street.

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[PetreTG]

Taxes and time, my friend.

Now answer me this, Paul preches bringing the troops in from all over the world because we're wasting a trillion dollars a year. Yet he also preaches getting rid of the IRS, which brings in a trillion dollars a year. Where's the benefit in that when it comes to the economy?

Paul will just take us full circle to nowheresville.

Is Ron Paul's healthcare plan the best one available?

His policies are full of holes.
That's your answer ... TAXES AND TIME ? :doh:

Let me give you a clue "my friend" .... Baby boomers are starting to retire en masse for 2008 , in this aging population we have in the USA .

We're about to experience a MASSIVE loss of income along with a MASSIVE request for entitlements.

We're already borrowing more than we can afford to.

ANYONE offering a National Health Care Plan , is either a total fucking moron when it comes to economics , or is flat out lying.

The only way you get one .... is to raise our taxes to slave levels or massive spending cuts (Something none of the others has ever mentioned nor has any intention of doing).

As for what Paul proposes .... you leave out one important fact that he preaches ....

Paul's plan isn't made by the tooth fairy ... it's a real economic plan to eliminate taxes and save our dollar and economy , from ending up in the toilet.

The BIGGEST part of his plan is reducing the size and scope of government and eliminating trillions in spending on useless programs that do little else but rob our freedom and spend our taxes.

Reduce the size of government and you reduce spending. None of the others want anything but more government and more controls and that costs more and more money. On top of that , they all want to continue spending billions a day overseas and none will end this endless war except Paul.

Eliminate income tax and you will have thousands - tens of thousands extra in your bank account or pocket to stimulate the economy.

I told all of you before .... THE CREDIT BUBBLE is coming next and the housing bubble isn't close to being done deflating.

This is going to be a huge mess when it all comes undone. There will be no more stimulation of the economy through credit ... and when that happens we're going to fall flat on our face into a depression. The SOLUTION is for people to be relieved of the heavy tax burdens and have the money to spend into the economy.

His policies full of holes .??? It's the most sound and attainable plan ANY CANDIDATE has presented.

The others present a plan that is so vacuous it's not full of holes , it's like a cesspool , and that sucking sound is our dollar and economy getting flushed down into the abyss.

[Cheo Malanga]

How many people do you know that are barely making it through paycheck to paycheck?

I know more than enough to know that they won't save a dime for their health, regular savings, social security, whatever...

Basically, what Ron Paul is doing is sweeping it under the rug.

"No healthcare? Well, you should have had some."

Basically, he's trying to push the blame as far away from the government as possible.

Do you know what a universal healthcare system does? Saves the citizens money and STILL guarantee you healthcare.

It works everywhere else, but it CANT work here, right?

Give me a break.

so are you willing to be taxed more for it?

i am not. and yes, i live paycheck to paycheck. but over 10K extra a year would solve a lot of problems for me.

[Arben]

so are you willing to be taxed more for it?

i am not. and yes, i live paycheck to paycheck. but over 10K extra a year would solve a lot of problems for me.
See, but here's the catch. If we get taxed, we'd be spending a total of about 4K a year. Now, it's at least 6K a year.

So yes, I'm willing to get taxed more so that I can save more!

[PetreTG]

See, but here's the catch. If we get taxed, we'd be spending a total of about 4K a year. Now, it's at least 6K a year.

So yes, I'm willing to get taxed more so that I can save more!

:lol: Wow .... no wonder you don't understand Paul's plan. :doh:

[Arben]

That's your answer ... TAXES AND TIME ? :doh:

Let me give you a clue "my friend" .... Baby boomers are starting to retire in this aging population we have in the USA .

We're about to experience a MASSIVE loss of income and a MASSIVE request for entitlements.

We're already borrowing more than we can afford to.

ANYONE offering a National Healthcare plan , is either a total fucking moron when it comes to economics , or is flat out lying.

The only way you get one .... is to raise our taxes to slave levels .

As for what Paul proposes .... you leave out one important fact that he preaches ....

See ... Pauls plan isn't made by the tooth fairy ... it's a real economic plan to eliminate taxes and save our dollar from ending up in the toilet.

The BIGGEST part of his plan is reducing the size and scope of governtment and eliminating trillions in spending on useless programs that do little else but rob our freedom .

Reduce the size of government and you reduce spending.

Eliminate income tax and you will have thousands - tens of thousands extra in your bank account or pocket to stimulate the economy.

I told all of you before .... THE CREDIT BUBBLE is comming next and the housing bubble isn't close to being done deflating.

This is going to be a huge mess when it all comes undone. There will be no more stimulation of the economy through credit ... and when that happens we're going to fall flat on our face into a depression. The SOLUTION is for people to be relieved of the heavy tax burdens and have the money to spend into the economy.

His policies full of holes .??? It's the most sound and attainable plan ANY CANDIDATE has presented.

The others present a plan that is so vacuous it's not full of holes , it's like a cesspool , and that sucking sound is our dollar and economy getting flushed down into the abyss.
If it's so bad, why does universal healthcare work everywhere else?

Slave wage taxes? Why does EVERY other industrialezed nation pay less for healthcare? Ron Paul's plan, which promotes more healthcare providers at the same through the roof rates, is fucking slave wages, my friend. You've really got to be retarded if you think our healtcare system will be fine with mroe of the same.

You were just in an accident. How much would it have cost you if you weren't insured?

Is that acceptable when other people pay nothing extra?

Again, universal helthcare saves citizens money! Alot more money!

All of Ron Pauls strong and legitimate proposals of scalebacks of the government are systems that actually MAKE money for the government.

The IRS brings in one trillion dollars a year. He's replacing the Iraq war's waste of money with another. Basically, he's sweeping the country's problems under the rug to his own benefit.


AGAIN, what is his plan? Is it not, "You'll have more money, so you can save that into your own personal healthcare plan if you want. If you don't want to, that's fine too."?????????????

At least the other Republicans' plans virtually mandate it that you HAVE to put money into a personal healthcare plan.

Ron Paul doesn't give a shit about the poverty stricken citizens of America...and let's not even get into the blacks, hispanics, and asians.

[PetreTG]

If it's so bad, why does universal healthcare work everywhere else?

Slave wage taxes? Why does EVERY other industrialezed nation pay less for healthcare? Ron Paul's plan, which promotes more healthcare providers at the same through the roof rates, is fucking slave wages, my friend. You've really got to be retarded if you think our healtcare system will be fine with mroe of the same.

You were just in an accident. How much would it have cost you if you weren't insured?

Is that acceptable when other people pay nothing extra?

Again, universal helthcare saves citizens money! Alot more money!

All of Ron Pauls strong and legitimate proposals of scalebacks of the government are systems that actually MAKE money for the government.

The IRS brings in one trillion dollars a year. He's replacing the Iraq war's waste of money with another. Basically, he's sweeping the country's problems under the rug to his own benefit.


AGAIN, what is his plan? Is it not, "You'll have more money, so you can save that into your own personal healthcare plan if you want. If you don't want to, that's fine too."?????????????

At least the other Republicans' plans virtually mandate it that you HAVE to put money into a personal healthcare plan.

Ron Paul doesn't give a shit about the poverty stricken citizens of America...and let's not even get into the blacks, hispanics, and asians.

Once again Arben .... you fail to look at the big picture.

The other countries that have the national healthcare programs are not in the mess we are. They also do not have all the hidden taxes we have.

Do you think taxes end with income tax ? I know you don't but do you have any idea just how many there are ?

Ron Paul's plan SAVES Social Security and Medicare for those that will need it.

The course we're on ... those accounts are already near bankrupt and full of IOU's.

Now also consider our system ENCOURAGES HIGH COST CARE .... Free Markets would drive those costs down.

Why do you think people want to go over seas for big procedures these days ... why do people want to get their prescription drugs from Canada .... BECAUSE IT'S MUCH MUCH MUCH CHEAPER.

A universal plan will make our problems with THIS ECONOMY worse , not better. And the USA will drop from 37th in the world in quality of care to god only knows where.

As for who Ron Paul doesn't care about ?

Ron Pauls medical practice was in a low income district where his primary patients were "the blacks and hispanics" that he often treated for FREE.

So don't give me that bullshit about who he cares about.

The free market would bring healthcare and prescriptions down to affordable levels instead of the robberous levels they currently enjoy.

Once you realize it's the big corporations and big pharma that DO NOT want Paul's plan .... you'll start to understand.

Finally , he's not in any way saying that help to those with income too low to get healthcare would be left out. THAT is the type of program he WOULD support .... but at STATE levels is where they would be enacted.

[Cheo Malanga]

See, but here's the catch. If we get taxed, we'd be spending a total of about 4K a year. Now, it's at least 6K a year.

So yes, I'm willing to get taxed more so that I can save more!

let's see, getting taxed 14K a year for medical attention. or getting taxed 0 and spending 6K a year on medical care. jeez i wonder which one makes more sense?

[PetreTG]

let's see, getting taxed 14K a year for medical attention. or getting taxed 0 and spending 6K a year on medical care. jeez i wonder which one makes more sense?

Yeah .... give me back the 70-80 I pay a year in taxes and the cost of my health insurance goes down dramatically.

Now open up free markets and competition and the cost of healthcare get's sliced in half further reducing the burdens.

Also competition makes the quality go up .

[Arben]

Once again Arben .... you fail to look at the big picture.

The other countries that have the national healthcare programs are not in the mess we are. They also do not have all the hidden taxes we have.

Do you think taxes end with income tax ? I know you don't but do you have any idea just how many there are ?

Ron Paul's plan SAVES Social Security and Medicare for those that will need it.

The course we're on ... those accounts are already near bankrupt and full of IOU's.
Oh yeah...his plan to save social security and medicare...
"We'll have more money because the economy will be fixed after we bring the troops home."


Now also consider our system ENCOURAGES HIGH COST CARE .... Free Markets would drive those costs down.

Why do you think people want to go over seas for big procedures these days ... why do people want to get their prescription drugs from Canada .... BECAUSE IT'S MUCH MUCH MUCH CHEAPER.
You mean, why do people get medical care in countries that have a universal healthcare system?

Isn't that a stupid question, considering your stance?:doh:


A universal plan will make our problems with THIS ECONOMY worse , not better. And the USA will drop from 37th in the world in quality of care to god only knows where.
Like it did to all the countries before us?


As for who Ron Paul doesn't care about ?

Ron Pauls medical practice was in a low income district where his primary patients were "the blacks and hispanics" that he often treated for FREE.

So don't give me that bullshit about who he cares about.
Blah blah blah. That means nothing. His policies as a politician do nothing to support them, so he should stick to being a doctor for them.


The free market would bring healthcare and prescriptions down to affordable levels instead of the robberous levels they currently enjoy.

Once you realize it's the big corporations and big pharma that DO NOT want Paul's plan .... you'll start to understand.
Here's how it WILL play out. Because this is the way big business operates.

At first, there will be too many health insurance providers, and the competition will be great. Then eventually, they'll start merging and buying out smaller providers, making a big healtcare provider even bigger. This, of course, will be after a number of years. Eventually, there will only be a select few major healtcare providers, and a few small stragglers. These massive organizations will control the cost upwards and make healthcare expensive again. Still, it might be cheaper than right now (But what isn't?).

In the end, big business gets bigger and the middle class gets even more hurt as the big proveders begin to merge, mid-level employees fall through the cracks.

Finally , he's not in any way saying that help to those with income too low to get healthcare would be left out. THAT is the type of program he WOULD support .... but at STATE levels is where they would be enacted.
So you're saying he supports Mitt Romney? Because that's his healthcare stance, not Ron Paul's.

[Tyler Durden]

that guy is a racist out of the same cloth as jesse jackson and al sharpton.
I'm surprised petre didn't have something to say :dunno:

[Arben]

let's see, getting taxed 14K a year for medical attention. or getting taxed 0 and spending 6K a year on medical care. jeez i wonder which one makes more sense?
Where are you getting those bogus figures from?

We'd pay $3-4,000 a year in medical taxes each year.

That's even less than your expected personal healthcare plan and often times half what we currently pay.

[PetreTG]

:bears:
------------------------------------------



Ron Paul, Fox News, & Me
Dear Customer,

Because Overstock advertises on Fox channels, Overstock has been receiving calls and email messages about Fox News decision to exclude Dr. Ron Paul from the upcoming January 6 forum in New Hampshire, a decision that seems especially rank given the fact that in yesterdays Iowa Caucus Dr. Paul out-polled Mayor Giuliani by a factor of 2.5:1. I always enjoy hearing from our customers, particularly those who display political commitment of any flavor, and I thank them for their calls and emails.

In October Dr. Paul came to Utah, and he and I visited for an hour in my office. After that meeting, I gave him the largest donation I could under federal law: it is rare to meet a politician who understands the Constitution, and rarer still to meet one who thinks it binds the government meaningfully (I would give Dr. Paul more were there not now a federal blackout on free speech known as "McCain-Feingold"). In a television interview last week I stated that, while for the first time in my life I felt there are several candidates qualified to be president, my #1 choice would be Dr. Paul.

That said, I believe that pulling Overstocks advertising from Fox would represent an inappropriate conflation of my personal politics with my corporate responsibilities: thus, fellow supporters of Dr. Paul, my answer to you is, "no." However, I have contacted Fox and told them that, as a major advertiser, I believe it is unconscionable of them to exclude Dr. Paul from participating in this forum on January 6, thus denying our polity the opportunity to make an informed choice.

Respectfully,

Patrick M. Byrne, Ph.D.
CEO, Overstock.com

PS If you wish to join me in asking Fox to refrain from trying to warp the public discourse, email Fox Senior Political Producer Marty Ryan

[Cheo Malanga]

ok, 3-4K on medical taxes on top of the taxes i already paid (let's say 10K) and that's a total of 13-14K. get rid of incometax, and i pay 6K in medical costs, as you say i would and i still have 6 to 7K a year to invest in my retirement. get it now, or are #'s not your forte.

[PetreTG]

Oh yeah...his plan to save social security and medicare...
"We'll have more money because the economy will be fixed after we bring the troops home."


You mean, why do people get medical care in countries that have a universal healthcare system?

Isn't that a stupid question, considering your stance?:doh:


Like it did to all the countries before us?


Blah blah blah. That means nothing. His policies as a politician do nothing to support them, so he should stick to being a doctor for them.


Here's how it WILL play out. Because this is the way big business operates.

At first, there will be too many health insurance providers, and the competition will be great. Then eventually, they'll start merging and buying out smaller providers, making a big healtcare provider even bigger. This, of course, will be after a number of years. Eventually, there will only be a select few major healtcare providers, and a few small stragglers. These massive organizations will control the cost upwards and make healthcare expensive again. Still, it might be cheaper than right now (But what isn't?).

In the end, big business gets bigger and the middle class gets even more hurt as the big proveders begin to merge, mid-level employees fall through the cracks.

So you're saying he supports Mitt Romney? Because that's his healthcare stance, not Ron Paul's.

No offense Arben , but me debating this with you is a waste of time because you don't understand fundamentals and you want to simplify a very complicated problem.

So my advice to you is this ... be careful what you wish for , because you might just get it.