Definitive Career Enders not Involving Death or Permanent Injury...

[Buddy Rydell]

For me, the definitive one is Marco Antonio Barrera vs. Prince Naseem Hamed. Hamed was a bomber who crushed people with either hand, and many people were saying I was nuts for picking MAB. MAB laid such a comprehensive beating on Hamed that I bet Hamed's people are still going, "What the fuck was that?" :lol:

Fast forward from then to now, Barrera went through a potential career crusher against Pacquaio and then rebounded to beat a few good fighters. True he never got the W back from Pac or Junior Jones, but he came back to do good things, so while he lost bad to both guys in their first bouts, they didn't retire him.

Now I look at Hamed. First he beats a relative unknown, at least unknown on the world stage, and then does nothing even though he insisted in the post-fight interview that he had a rematch clause with Barrera and was going to exercise it.

I have a feeling that Floyd might have just done the same thing to Hatton, but we'll see.

So what are your career enders? Ones that completely shattered the other person's confidence and career? Don't list guys who died or who were permanently disabled like Gerald McClellan. We know they were stopped and damaged or killed, but let's not turn the thread into ugliness.

[dymipepel]

The beating Vitaly put on Lennox

[Rubio MHS]

Yeah. Barrera beat Hamed so bad that it made Hamed look bad for the two years before the fight.:dunno:

[Erratic]

I don't think Tito ever really mentally recovered from the Hopkins fight.

I don't think Vargas fully recovered from the beating from Trinidad. Same thing with Taylor and Chavez, although I don't think it was Chavez and Tito alone that ruined them. Vargas and Taylor took too much punishment in general.

[Xplosive]

I don't think Tito ever really mentally recovered from the Hopkins fight.

I don't think Vargas fully recovered from the beating from Trinidad. Same thing with Taylor and Chavez, although I don't think it was Chavez and Tito alone that ruined them. Vargas and Taylor took too much punishment in general.

Tito & Chavez both ended Taylor & Vargas' PRIMES. Both were still very good fighters afterwards, but never the same, especially Vargas.

[Neil]

I don't think vargas was still very good after the trinidad fight. he never defeated anyone I'd consider good, afterward.

an obvious answer would be roy jones jr losing the rematch to tarver.

[TKO]

For me, the definitive one is Marco Antonio Barrera vs. Prince Naseem Hamed. Hamed was a bomber who crushed people with either hand, and many people were saying I was nuts for picking MAB. MAB laid such a comprehensive beating on Hamed that I bet Hamed's people are still going, "What the fuck was that?" :lol:

Fast forward from then to now, Barrera went through a potential career crusher against Pacquaio and then rebounded to beat a few good fighters. True he never got the W back from Pac or Junior Jones, but he came back to do good things, so while he lost bad to both guys in their first bouts, they didn't retire him.

Now I look at Hamed. First he beats a relative unknown, at least unknown on the world stage, and then does nothing even though he insisted in the post-fight interview that he had a rematch clause with Barrera and was going to exercise it.

I have a feeling that Floyd might have just done the same thing to Hatton, but we'll see.

So what are your career enders? Ones that completely shattered the other person's confidence and career? Don't list guys who died or who were permanently disabled like Gerald McClellan. We know they were stopped and damaged or killed, but let's not turn the thread into ugliness.

Who....? the girls at ballerina class..

MAB schooled Naz and most could see it coming

[Roll With The Punches]

MAB laid such a comprehensive beating on Hamed that I bet Hamed's people are still going, "What the fuck was that?" :lol:






yeh
he beat him half to death....it was a brutal massacre :eeeek:





:dunno: :notallthere:

[Joe King]

Corrales/Castillo for both men.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Hatton-Tszyu.

[r o o s t e r]

lennox-grant

[r o o s t e r]

I have a feeling that Floyd might have just done the same thing to Hatton, but we'll see.

nah he's coming back, and he'll be the same boxer he was, i.e. ugly cheat but effective

[Baron]

Who....? the girls at ballerina class..

MAB schooled Naz and most could see it coming:rolleyes: Revisionism at its finest...

[r o o s t e r]

it wasnt a career-ender, but something happened to mosley after the first forrest fight. he went from p4p#1 to lost in the wilderness.

then the same happened with forrest after fighting mayorga

[joony]

hamed was only like 27 or so when he fought barrera, but anyone who thought he was still in his prime need to go back and watch some of hamed's earlier fights.

it was obvious from the mccullough & sanchez fights that the dude has regressed noticeably.

he was also coming off a long layoff.

[TKO]

:rolleyes: Revisionism at its finest...


Get the fuck outta here Naz was exciting but some what a fraud.

Morales/MAB I couldnt wait for him to take one of those fights.

[joony]

Get the fuck outta here Naz was exciting but some what a fraud.

Morales/MAB I couldnt wait for him to take one of those fights.

a fraud doesnt win multiple world championship belts and knock out world class opponents.

[TKO]

...and a world class fighter doesnt hide in his burrow after one defeat.

[joony]

...and a world class fighter doesnt hide in his burrow after one defeat.

he was rich. he attempted to comeback and looked like shit against a club fighter. i dont think anyone cared to see him fight barrera again.

if anything, he should've gone on with the proposed fight against tapia when tapia was still the IBF belt holder (after getting a gift vs. medina).

[TKO]

he was rich. he attempted to comeback and looked like shit against a club fighter. i dont think anyone cared to see him fight barrera again.

if anything, he should've gone on with the proposed fight against tapia when tapia was still the IBF belt holder (after getting a gift vs. medina).

Never a fan never will be, hyped comes to mind. Wasn't Tapia a bantamweight and a small feather but then again thats right up Naz's street.

BTW most fights at that level are rich....

[Baron]

Get the fuck outta here Naz was exciting but some what a fraud.

Morales/MAB I couldnt wait for him to take one of those fights.Naz was a pretty big favourite to beat Barrera, so your "most people saw it coming" is revisionism.

[TKO]

Ok princess Im not going to get into he said she said BS.

But Naz was never a favorite for that fight in my boxing circle.

[Baron]

Ok princess Im not going to get into he said she said BS.

But Naz was never a favorite for that fight in my boxing circle.You're just plain wrong, deal with it. I wonder if you were following boxing closely back then.:lol:

[TKO]

Well I was 2 but with a mean left hook though...:lol:

[ArturoGatti]

Naz was a pretty big favourite to beat Barrera, so your "most people saw it coming" is revisionism.I believe he said SOME people saw it coming, not most.

But Barrera has always been a superior fighter to Naz. Most people SHOULD Have seen it coming, just like most people should have expected Trinidad to get humiliated by Hopkins.

[TKO]

I believe he said SOME people saw it coming, not most.

But Barrera has always been a superior fighter to Naz. Most people SHOULD Have seen it coming, just like most people should have expected Trinidad to get humiliated by Hopkins.

:bears:

I dont make claims on prediction unless I made the prediction but I couldn't be arsed. I saw it coming and so did others.

[Erratic]

Who....? the girls at ballerina class..

MAB schooled Naz and most could see it coming

Naz was a solid favorite, I think 3-1. 2001 was the year of the upsets.

After the first war with Morales, Barrera looked rather poor in a fight later that year, prompting some to believe that he wasn't the same fighter. Then Barrera looked much better against Salud in late 2000, prompting Manny Steward to say on air "maybe we picked the wrong guy to fight".

But among boxing writers and the oddsmakers, Barrera was the underdog.

[Erratic]

...and a world class fighter doesnt hide in his burrow after one defeat.

Michael Spinks did, and he's an ATG. Felix Trinidad did. After losing to Hopkins, he couldn't decide if he wanted to be a fighter or not.

[Orthodox Crusader]

You're just plain wrong, deal with it. I wonder if you were following boxing closely back then.:lol:


Naz was a product of that whole tacky Benn-Eubank era, if anything he rode the coat tails of the terrestrial era into the Sky TV era and made a small fortune fighting Argentinian roadsweepers and shot or threatless hasbeens, a la Kelley, McCullough, Soto.

I mean, Tapia KO'd Soto with one right hand to the guts. TAPIA, ffs.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Michael Spinks did, and he's an ATG. Felix Trinidad did. After losing to Hopkins, he couldn't decide if he wanted to be a fighter or not.


Spinks had announced his decision to retire, WIN LOSE OR DRAW....BEFORE the Tyson fight.

And Tito did make a comeback.

Neither of those are comparable to what Hamed did. He fought Manuel Calvo for the European belt, then he got fat, talked some shit and went to jail.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2007/09/25/nhamed.jpg

[Erratic]

Spinks had announced his decision to retire, WIN LOSE OR DRAW....BEFORE the Tyson fight.

And Tito did make a comeback.

Neither of those are comparable to what Hamed did. He fought Manuel Calvo for the European belt, then he got fat, talked some shit and went to jail.

Fighters always say "this will be my last fight".

It rarely ever is.

To say someone who won the 4 major belts at a weight class, whom was the most achieved featherweight of the 1990s, as the recognized top guy at 126 was not "world class" is ridiculous.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Fighters always say "this will be my last fight".

It rarely ever is.

To say someone who won the 4 major belts at a weight class, whom was the most achieved featherweight of the 1990s, as the recognized top guy at 126 was not "world class" is ridiculous.


You need to study the overall.

He was a very carefully managed and promoted fighter. How many fresh, 100% fit genuine World Class featherweights did the guy fight?

Fuck, even Barrera was a 122lbr. And he lost to him.

He never fought Morales, JMM, Pac Man, Tapia, even little Paulie Ayala. He talked bollox about Mayweather when Mayweather was 4lbs north of Hamed at 130. Never happened, of course.:rolleyes: He went life and death with Paul Ingle, who was fringe world class, and Ingle was eventually dispatched by Mbuelo Botile, a former Timmy Austin victim.:doh:

[Erratic]

You need to study the overall.

He was a very carefully managed and promoted fighter. How many fresh, 100% fit genuine World Class featherweights did the guy fight?

Fuck, even Barrera was a 122lbr. And he lost to him.

He never fought Morales, JMM, Pac Man, Tapia, even little Paulie Ayala. He talked bollox about Mayweather when Mayweather was 4lbs north of Hamed at 130. Never happened, of course.:rolleyes: He went life and death with Paul Ingle, who was fringe world class, and Ingle was eventually dispatched by Mbuelo Botile, a former Timmy Austin victim.:doh:

Pacquiao didn't make his mark @ 126 until 2003, hell, he didn't win a title @ 122 until after Barrera beat Hamed. Hamed avoided Marquez, then offered Marquez a fight after Marquez had lost to Gainer. Good ole' Nacho turned down the fight. Almost all of Tapia's meaningful bouts when Hamed was champ were @ 118.

You couldn't find too many people around 2000-01 that hated Hamed more than I did. But to claim he wasn't a world class fighter is insane. If you're one of the best in your weight class, you're world-class.

He dominated Tom Johnson who was a long reigning champion, who had made what, 12 straight title defenses? He was a bit old, but still a top guy at 126 in 1997. He dominated Steve Robinson when Robinson was on a hot streak and the WBO champ. He beat Manuel Medina who was either a contender or titlist for what seemed like forever. He beat Cesar Soto and Wilfredo Vasquez when they were champs (barring strip jobs shortly before the fight).

Just because Hamed wasn't on the level of guys like Pacquiao and Barrera, or wasn't reckless when choosing opposition (or let's face it, avoided a guy or two), it doesn't mean he wasn't still a very good fighter. How many guys @ 126 achieved more in the 90s than Hamed?

[ArturoGatti]

Pacquiao didn't make his mark @ 126 until 2003, hell, he didn't win a title @ 122 until after Barrera beat Hamed. Hamed avoided Marquez, then offered Marquez a fight after Marquez had lost to Gainer. Good ole' Nacho turned down the fight. Almost all of Tapia's meaningful bouts when Hamed was champ were @ 118.

You couldn't find too many people around 2000-01 that hated Hamed more than I did. But to claim he wasn't a world class fighter is insane. If you're one of the best in your weight class, you're world-class.

He dominated Tom Johnson who was a long reigning champion, who had made what, 12 straight title defenses? He was a bit old, but still a top guy at 126 in 1997. He dominated Steve Robinson when Robinson was on a hot streak and the WBO champ. He beat Manuel Medina who was either a contender or titlist for what seemed like forever. He beat Cesar Soto and Wilfredo Vasquez when they were champs (barring strip jobs shortly before the fight).

Just because Hamed wasn't on the level of guys like Pacquiao and Barrera, or wasn't reckless when choosing opposition (or let's face it, avoided a guy or two), it doesn't mean he wasn't still a very good fighter. How many guys @ 126 achieved more in the 90s than Hamed?I disagree.

[*Z*]

And Tito did make a comeback.



But he did the same thing as Hamed did at first which was to fight one bum after losing to Hopkins and retiring. So what if he came back and got his ass kicked a couple more times. (and one more to come)


:lol:

[joony]

besides marquez, who did hamed duck exactly? istvan kovacs?

[ArturoGatti]

besides marquez, who did hamed duck exactly? istvan kovacs?yes. :bears:

[Rubio MHS]

Tyson-Holyfield II

[Baron]

besides marquez, who did hamed duck exactly? istvan kovacs?:laughing::lol: Istvan Kovacs... Europeans were hyping him as Hamed's worst nightmare until he got sent into retirement by Juan Pablo Chacon, I think he fits in the thread too BTW.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Pacquiao didn't make his mark @ 126 until 2003, hell, he didn't win a title @ 122 until after Barrera beat Hamed. Hamed avoided Marquez, then offered Marquez a fight after Marquez had lost to Gainer. Good ole' Nacho turned down the fight. Almost all of Tapia's meaningful bouts when Hamed was champ were @ 118.

You couldn't find too many people around 2000-01 that hated Hamed more than I did. But to claim he wasn't a world class fighter is insane. If you're one of the best in your weight class, you're world-class.

He dominated Tom Johnson who was a long reigning champion, who had made what, 12 straight title defenses? He was a bit old, but still a top guy at 126 in 1997. He dominated Steve Robinson when Robinson was on a hot streak and the WBO champ. He beat Manuel Medina who was either a contender or titlist for what seemed like forever. He beat Cesar Soto and Wilfredo Vasquez when they were champs (barring strip jobs shortly before the fight).

Just because Hamed wasn't on the level of guys like Pacquiao and Barrera, or wasn't reckless when choosing opposition (or let's face it, avoided a guy or two), it doesn't mean he wasn't still a very good fighter. How many guys @ 126 achieved more in the 90s than Hamed?


Robinson lost like, 4000 fights.

And what Barrera, pac, JMM and Morales did between them thoroughly eclipsed Hameds work.

[Rubio MHS]

Robinson lost like, 4000 fights.

And what Barrera, pac, JMM and Morales did between them thoroughly eclipsed Hameds work.House of straws. Barrera and Morales weren't that good above 122. Both were inconsistent at 126.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

The whole reason why the Hamed camp picked to fight Barrera and not Morales from their first fight was cos in their own lying words, "we felt he (Barrera) won the fight against Morales".
That's why they went after MAB - they thought'd be an easy touch - KO in 5 rounds or so.
Hah-fucking-hah.

IMO, if they had gone for Morales, it would've been a nasty brutal beating for Hamed...


And I don't know what TKO is going on about cos a massive % on the SecondsOut.com Forum (i.e. where everyone here came from) picked Hamed to win as well...led by the hilarous 'Hamed-Scrotum-HangerOn', Simes. :lol:

[Joe King]

Why is Hamed being talked about in this thread. He made career ending choices. He wasn't in a CAREER ENDING FIGHT, which is what the thread is suppposed to be about.:doh:

[meetthefeebles]

You need to study the overall.

He was a very carefully managed and promoted fighter. How many fresh, 100% fit genuine World Class featherweights did the guy fight?

Fuck, even Barrera was a 122lbr. And he lost to him.

He never fought Morales, JMM, Pac Man, Tapia, even little Paulie Ayala. He talked bollox about Mayweather when Mayweather was 4lbs north of Hamed at 130. Never happened, of course.:rolleyes: He went life and death with Paul Ingle, who was fringe world class, and Ingle was eventually dispatched by Mbuelo Botile, a former Timmy Austin victim.:doh:

This much may be true enough, and whilst it is clear that his ignoble exit from boxing has tarnished his legacy, there are a lot of people with selective memories when it comes to Hamed.

The Ingle fight, for example, was hardly 'life or death'. I distinctly remember that fight, because I told a bunch of folk that Ingle was good odds to beat Hamed, and that they should perhaps have a small flutter.

In the end, I'm not sure Paul won more than a couple of rounds before he got KTFO. :doh:

Also, I seem to recall a lot of people thinking the Kelly fight was going to be tough (and it was). Robinson was a pretty credible champ to displace etc...

Hamed just talked A LOT of shit, so when he got a hiding, the latent hate many had for him could come out at last and in full. I mean, even the MAB fight wasn't as BAD as some now try to make it sound. Listening to some, you'd think Hamed lost every minute of the fight. He didn't. He lost clearly, but he didn't lose as badly as, say, Lacy against Calzaghe, who (Lacy, clearly) BTW is a perfect example of the kind of fighter belonging in this thread.

MTF

[Mitchell Kane]

Why is Hamed being talked about in this thread. He made career ending choices. He wasn't in a CAREER ENDING FIGHT, which is what the thread is suppposed to be about.:doh:

Because this was a thinly veiled Hamed topic?

A better example would have been Bowe-Golota II.

[meetthefeebles]

The whole reason why the Hamed camp picked to fight Barrera and not Morales from their first fight was cos in their own lying words, "we felt he (Barrera) won the fight against Morales".
That's why they went after MAB - they thought'd be an easy touch - KO in 5 rounds or so.
Hah-fucking-hah.

IMO, if they had gone for Morales, it would've been a nasty brutal beating for Hamed...


And I don't know what TKO is going on about cos a massive % on the SecondsOut.com Forum (i.e. where everyone here came from) picked Hamed to win as well...led by the hilarous 'Hamed-Scrotum-HangerOn', Simes. :lol:

This is pretty much undeniable. What the fuck were they thinking??? :eeeek:

[Cheo Malanga]

joe lipsey.

[TKO]

Michael Spinks did, and he's an ATG. Felix Trinidad did. After losing to Hopkins, he couldn't decide if he wanted to be a fighter or not.

The difference being MAB was Naz's first fight..

[Erratic]

The difference being MAB was Naz's first fight..

First fight what?

Hamed's first fight against a future HOFer?

[TKO]

The whole reason why the Hamed camp picked to fight Barrera and not Morales from their first fight was cos in their own lying words, "we felt he (Barrera) won the fight against Morales".
That's why they went after MAB - they thought'd be an easy touch - KO in 5 rounds or so.
Hah-fucking-hah.

IMO, if they had gone for Morales, it would've been a nasty brutal beating for Hamed...


And I don't know what TKO is going on about cos a massive % on the SecondsOut.com Forum (i.e. where everyone here came from) picked Hamed to win as well...led by the hilarous 'Hamed-Scrotum-HangerOn', Simes. :lol:


Believe it or not I made up my own mind it was my opinion just like I thought Dela would have taken care of Money May, you win some you lose some

I was telling anyone that would listen that MAB was going to beat Naz and thats what happened, I wasn't a member of seconds out BTW..

[TKO]

First fight what?

Hamed's first fight against a future HOFer?


Comparing Tito and Spinks to Naz is silly the MAB fight was Naz's first test and he failed like a bad remedial student.

[Erratic]

Comparing Tito and Spinks to Naz is silly the MAB fight was Naz's first test and he failed like a bad remedial student.

Yeah, Naz's first test against a great fighter.

That has little to do with your previous claim of Naz not being world class and him never recovering from the first L, which is what I'm saying.

Naz beat all 4 beltholders at 126 and was probably the most achieved featherweight of the 1990s.

If that is not "world-class", then you have an extremely high standard for someone being a world-class fighter.

[TKO]

Yeah, Naz's first test against a great fighter.

That has little to do with your previous claim of Naz not being world class and him never recovering from the first L, which is what I'm saying.

Naz beat all 4 beltholders at 126 and was probably the most achieved featherweight of the 1990s.

If that is not "world-class", then you have an extremely high standard for someone being a world-class fighter.


I was never convinced with Naz even though he was exciting to watch.. and he never did recover from the first L, If he was so good why did he retire when he should have been in his prime...

Naz fans will tell you his prime was in his early 20's but I say he was found out and had no where to go after the MAB fight, especially if he thought MAB was a soft touch compared to Morales.

[CleanYourClock]

Yeah, Naz's first test against a great fighter.

That has little to do with your previous claim of Naz not being world class and him never recovering from the first L, which is what I'm saying.

Naz beat all 4 beltholders at 126 and was probably the most achieved featherweight of the 1990s.

If that is not "world-class", then you have an extremely high standard for someone being a world-class fighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9JETH2YNfU

[Octopus]

Easy one is Jeff Lacy-Joe Calzaghe!!

Even though Jeff hasn't lost a fight since,he BARELY wins them:warning:

[TKO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9JETH2YNfU


I forgot about the islam on the shorts..:lol:

MAB schooled him look how wild and desperate Naz is in the fight.

[Erratic]

I was never convinced with Naz even though he was exciting to watch.. and he never did recover from the first L, If he was so good why did he retire when he should have been in his prime...

Naz fans will tell you his prime was in his early 20's but I say he was found out and had no where to go after the MAB fight, especially if he thought MAB was a soft touch compared to Morales.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9JETH2YNfU


What does that have to do with him not being a world-class fighter?

Because a guy gets schooled by a great fighter like Barrera, it means he was never any good in the first place?

Like I said, people must have very high standards to be a world-class fighter if a fighter who's arguably the most achieved featherweight of the 90s was not "world-class".

[CleanYourClock]

I forgot about the islam on the shorts..:lol:

MAB schooled him look how wild and desperate Naz is in the fight.

I just watched highlights of Naz. Clips that were supposed to prop him up.
To me he looked exactly the same in the Barrera fight except in his highlights , he was fighting tomato cans ..

[CleanYourClock]

What does that have to do with him not being a world-class fighter?

Because a guy gets schooled by a great fighter like Barrera, it means he was never any good in the first place?

Like I said, people must have very high standards to be a world-class fighter if a fighter who's arguably the most achieved featherweight of the 90s was not "world-class".

No but , it would be nice if he had a credible win or atleast in a losing effort fought on almost equal terms with an A-class fighter ...

[TKO]

What does that have to do with him not being a world-class fighter?

Because a guy gets schooled by a great fighter like Barrera, it means he was never any good in the first place?

Like I said, people must have very high standards to be a world-class fighter if a fighter who's arguably the most achieved featherweight of the 90s was not "world-class".


Well maybe our definitions of world class differ some what.... Naz was average guy with a big punch..IMO

[Erratic]

No but , it would be nice if he had a credible win or atleast in a losing effort fought on almost equal terms with an A-class fighter ...

Well, that's why he's not up there with guys like Barrera and Pacquiao.

[TKO]

I just watched highlights of Naz. Clips that were supposed to prop him up.
To me he looked exactly the same in the Barrera fight except in his highlights , he was fighting tomato cans ..


MAB easily avoids those big shots and makes him look silly he fought a smart fight and took the W with ease.

To me MAB is world class, he arguably got spanked by the PAC but still had the stones to fight him again and took him all the way, thats the sign of a top fighter. Not crying like a bitch when you lose the defining fight of your career.

[Hut*Hut]

hamed was only like 27 or so when he fought barrera, but anyone who thought he was still in his prime need to go back and watch some of hamed's earlier fights.

it was obvious from the mccullough & sanchez fights that the dude has regressed noticeably.

he was also coming off a long layoff.

yup. Glad I'm not the lone voice in the wilderness who picked up on that. He stopped moving his head first of all, which A) left his head a sitting duck (which Sanchez, Barrera and Calvo all consecutively exploited) and B) took away from his ability to find weird angles for his shots. He also started holding his hands down at his thighs rather than his chest, which he had previously, making his shots longer and turning his jab into some sort of heinous & ineffectual back hand. His reflex' also went way down hill though probably more due to the fact that he pretty much abandoned serious training and sparring by that point, rather than due to age.

Not saying he necessarily would have beaten Barrera at his his peak (Barrera would be a marginal favourite), but nevertheless he had clearly regressed badly by 2001. Saying Barrera ended Naz is misleading....three men ended Naz - himself, Oscar Suarez and Manny Steward, in that order.

[Erratic]

Who was the last fighter of note that Oscar Suarez actually helped?

[Hut*Hut]

Who was the last fighter of note that Oscar Suarez actually helped?

its never happened. I think he's the subject of some in-joke bet between King & Arum al la Eddie Murphy in changing places. Somewhere in New Jersey there's an experienced world class trainer reduced to washing the windscreens of cars at traffic lights & selling boxing of oranges under freeway bridges.:lol:

[Erratic]

Roberto Duran-Davey Moore

[Hut*Hut]

Just watched Hamed-Kelly, Hamed-Johnson & Hamed-Barrera consecutively (Yes I was bored:rolleyes: ).

Firstly Hamed Barrera was way more competitive than I remembered. The consesnsus was that it was an 8-4 fight and it was, but that doesn't tell the whole story of just how respectful and cautious Barrera was until the 12th. On another night Hamed might have gotten some momentum going & won that, and if the doofuses in his corner had given him the input of simple adjustments to make such as moving to his fucking right so he could let his cross go, throwing the jab to the body to bring Barrera's hands down, switch hitting more etc he just might have. That doesn't even take into account the fact that Hamed didn't train for the damn fight...anybody who watched "little prince" knows what Im talking about there.

And most striking when you watch his earlier fights compared to the Barrera fight was how much slower he was in his hand and foot speed. The difference was enormous - much bigger than I had previously realized. On top of the regressions he had made in his style from an unorthodox switch hitting peak-a-boo fighter to a drunken, straight as a board, back slapping snake charmer then its clear that the Naz Barrera fought was FAR from his best. In fact on the back of what I saw I think a 97, 98 version of Naz was probably the best featherweight of this generation. Certainly not the greatest, but I think the best.:stir:

[TKO]

Audley Harrison on numerous occasions, someone should let the guy know.

[meetthefeebles]

Just watched Hamed-Kelly, Hamed-Johnson & Hamed-Barrera consecutively (Yes I was bored:rolleyes: ).

Firstly Hamed Barrera was way more competitive than I remembered. The consesnsus was that it was an 8-4 fight and it was, but that doesn't tell the whole story of just how respectful and cautious Barrera was until the 12th. On another night Hamed might have gotten some momentum going & won that, and if the doofuses in his corner had given him the input of simple adjustments to make such as moving to his fucking right so he could let his cross go, throwing the jab to the body to bring Barrera's hands down, switch hitting more etc he just might have. That doesn't even take into account the fact that Hamed didn't train for the damn fight...anybody who watched "little prince" knows what Im talking about there.

And most striking when you watch his earlier fights compared to the Barrera fight was how much slower he was in his hand and foot speed. The difference was enormous - much bigger than I had previously realized. On top of the regressions he had made in his style from an unorthodox switch hitting peak-a-boo fighter to a drunken, straight as a board, back slapping snake charmer then its clear that the Naz Barrera fought was FAR from his best. In fact on the back of what I saw I think a 97, 98 version of Naz was probably the best featherweight of this generation. Certainly not the greatest, but I think the best.:stir:

Excellent Post :bears:

Hamed was beaten clear by MAB, but people talk about it like he lost every second of every round. Which he certainly did not...