Why isn't there a good American heavyweight at the moment?

[Rainmaker]

???

[ILLUMINATI]

Talented Americans choose other sports (basketball, football)

[ArturoGatti]

option 1 and 3. (other sports and fat assholes)

[whiskey]

I picked the "combination" as there's never just one reason, but i think option # 1 is the biggest one.

[Bob N. Weave]

MMA is actually taking many of our athletes as well.

[ILLUMINATI]

MMA is actually taking many of our athletes as well.

??? really?

[dsimon3387]

dsimon writes:

A couple of things are going on. Other sports are a drain, socioeconomically there is no primary group, no infrastructure of trainers that is manufacturing fighters.

[Rabid Kimba]

A combinations of all those factors.

[KaukipRrr]

Other sports for sure, I often gaze across the basketball and football fields on TV, and pick out who would be the reigning world heavyweight champion at the moment, and who probably wouldn't be.

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

MMA is actually taking many of our athletes as well.You mean taking the clubfighters who wouldn't even be on tv. They take the fat unathletic heavyweights. At least boxing doesn't hype garbage like Sylvia and act like hes good.

[Orthodox Crusader]

Other sports for sure, I often gaze across the basketball and football fields on TV, and pick out who would be the reigning world heavyweight champion at the moment, and who probably wouldn't be.

:crafty: :lol: :clap: :crafty:

[REEDsART]

American Athletes have Tooooooo MANY OPTIONS...

Imagine an Athlete like a LeBron James or a Ray Lewis as a PRIZEFIGHTER???...

If those Guys had Spent their Formative SPORTING Years Learning BOXING, they Could Conceivably B DOMINANT Heavyweights Today...

Boxing Takes MORE Discipline than ANY American Sport & Obviously there's MUCH More RISK INvolved...Thus, Fewer Big Men Gravitate to it...They RESPECT it, but DON'T Wanna DO it...

These Days, BIG Men Only Box when they've Run OUT of Options...

REED:cool:

[REEDsART]

Other sports for sure, I often gaze across the basketball and football fields on TV, and pick out who would be the reigning world heavyweight champion at the moment, and who probably wouldn't be.Yep...


REED:cool:

[Orthodox Crusader]

Yep...


REED:cool:

:doh: Now who is missing the point.

[Rainmaker]

Do you guys think Wlad could have been a good basketball player if he was commited to the sport? Wlad is very athletic for his size.

[Mitchell Kane]

The ethnic/racial make-up in sports isn't constant and it isn't just in boxing.

One other example is the declining numbers of African Americans in baseball, which has been a topic for years in that sport...and it's coincided with dramatic increases in Latin American players (and some Asian players).

[Bob N. Weave]

You mean taking the clubfighters who wouldn't even be on tv. They take the fat unathletic heavyweights. At least boxing doesn't hype garbage like Sylvia and act like hes good.


This is ignorant. Clubfighters?? You are generalizing every MMA fighter into the Tim Sylvia mold. There are MANY dedicated, talented MMA fighters that would have done well if he had pursued boxing as his sport of choice.

[valdosta]

RJ is pretty much right. I mean this thread is about heavyweights and I don't see any UFC heavyweights that could cut it in boxing.

[Bob N. Weave]

You realize that there is more out there than just the UFC right?? And how do you know if they wouldn't cut it in boxing??? You know they aren't boxers right??? But if they had trained in boxing from the start?? ....

[KaukipRrr]

American Athletes have Tooooooo MANY OPTIONS...

Imagine an Athlete like a LeBron James or a Ray Lewis as a PRIZEFIGHTER???...

If those Guys had Spent their Formative SPORTING Years Learning BOXING, they Could Conceivably B DOMINANT Heavyweights Today...

Boxing Takes MORE Discipline than ANY American Sport & Obviously there's MUCH More RISK INvolved...Thus, Fewer Big Men Gravitate to it...They RESPECT it, but DON'T Wanna DO it...

These Days, BIG Men Only Box when they've Run OUT of Options...

REED:cool:

and also, in Europe, boxing is all they do, the king and queen of Europe has overlords who inspects babies for weaknesses or defects when they're fresh out of the junter, and such are to be taken away and buried alive. ALL juveniles are put through a rigorous training program from the age of 6 months on upwards, they haurd through mandatory government funded academies in millions like death marches, and what have they got to show for it?? :lol: , thier ultimate talent, Alexander Povetkin, get's his arse schooled for 4 rounds, by a flabby undersized black American off the streets, who can't be bothered to try. I agree with you. :stir:

[mikE]

I think the biggest answer is lack of gyms and opportunities.

Pointing to the NBA and NFL is pretty fucking weak considering how few, if any, great heavyweights could cut in in the NBA or NFL.

[Bob N. Weave]

and also, in Europe, boxing is all they do, the king and queen of Europe has overlords who inspects babies for weaknesses or defects when they're fresh out of the junter, and such are to be taken away and buried alive. ALL juveniles are put through a rigorous training program from the age of 6 months on upwards, they haurd through mandatory government funded academies in millions like death marches, and what have they got to show for it?? :lol: , thier ultimate talent, Alexander Povetkin, get's his arse schooled for 4 rounds, by a flabby undersized black American off the streets, who can't be bothered to try. I agree with you. :stir:


Yeah, their ultimate talent. With a whopping 15 fights under his belt.

[KaukipRrr]

Yeah, their ultimate talent. With a whopping 15 fights under his belt.

Highest touted for sure, Povetkin can think himself lucky basketball players aren't putting on the gloves, otherwise he'd be fucked like a congo train, he wouldn't be ranked in the top 700.

[valdosta]

You realize that there is more out there than just the UFC right?? And how do you know if they wouldn't cut it in boxing??? You know they aren't boxers right??? But if they had trained in boxing from the start?? ....

There's MMA besides the UFC :eeeek: Wow, I learn something everyday. The fact is if any of these guys in MMA had a chance to be a great heavyweight they would be. Why? Well, we all see how these guys get robbed and don't make shit. It's why MMA don't have any elite boxers until they can't box worth a damn anymore. Until MMA starts paying worth a damn they won't be stealing talent from any other sports.

[Orthodox Crusader]

WHat a coincidence that the decision of Americans to take up football and baseball just so happens to be chronologically congruous with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the emergence of dominant European fighters.:rolleyes:

[LOK]

WHat a coincidence that the decision of Americans to take up football and baseball just so happens to be chronologically congruous with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the emergence of dominant European fighters.:rolleyes:

lol yeah cuz there is so many "dominant European fighters" :lol: like who??

Hatton?:lol:

Wlad? :lol:
Povoken?:lol:

[Orthodox Crusader]

lol yeah cuz there is so many "dominant European fighters" :lol: like who??

Hatton?:lol:

Wlad? :lol:
Povoken?:lol:


Well Wlad and Povetkin look pretty fucking untouchable right now, as far as any American is concerned. Wlad has beaten Byrd, Brewster and Ray Austin as of recent and also has relatively recent wins over Davarryly Williamson and Dannell Nicholson, not to mention Byrd again, Mercer and McCline during his earliest title stint. He has only lost to two Americans and has avenged one of those losses. I

Interestingly, one of Wlads best pre-title wins came with a KO2 win over Derrick Jefferson, who WAS a promising Basketball player until he suffered a shooting. Thus he turned his hand to boxing and got wasted by Euros like Wlad and Oleg.

Another notable All-American Athlete, Michael Grant {supposedly the epitome of the sort of guy who is allegedy playing football or hoops when he could be boxing} got wasted in 2 by Euro Lennox Lewis.

Now, I am not saying that Grant and Jefferson are permanently indicative of the fate likely to be suffered by all American athletes deciding to persevere with boxing, but it should be noted that both were stand out athletes from varied disciplines, and both fell short.

[Mitchell Kane]

Well Wlad and Povetkin look pretty fucking untouchable right now, as far as any American is concerned. Wlad has beaten Byrd, Brewster and Ray Austin as of recent and also has relatively recent wins over Davarryly Williamson and Dannell Nicholson, not to mention Byrd again, Mercer and McCline during his earliest title stint. He has only lost to two Americans and has avenged one of those losses. I

Interestingly, one of Wlads best pre-title wins came with a KO2 win over Derrick Jefferson, who WAS a promising Basketball player until he suffered a shooting. Thus he turned his hand to boxing and got wasted by Euros like Wlad and Oleg.

Another notable All-American Athlete, Michael Grant {supposedly the epitome of the sort of guy who is allegedy playing football or hoops when he could be boxing} got wasted in 2 by Euro Lennox Lewis.

Now, I am not saying that Grant and Jefferson are permanently indicative of the fate likely to be suffered by all American athletes deciding to persevere with boxing, but it should be noted that both were stand out athletes from varied disciplines, and both fell short.

You talk like someone who never watched Alonzo Highsmith-Mark Gastineau. :laughing:

[Orthodox Crusader]

You talk like someone who never watched Alonzo Highsmith-Mark Gastineau. :laughing:


You are forgetting something. Gastineau was himself an American Footballer. So....its hardly the most controlled of tests!!!!

[Trplsec]

Personally I like the "Other Sport" choice.


If I start to see a huge swing in Europeans completely dominating at lower weight classes, then I'll re-think it.

I don't think it's a coincidence that we've seen the change at the HW level and most pro basketball and/or football players are 200+ pounds.

The poor, struggling inner cities that have typical produced great fighters are now producing more and more great football and basketball players. From a parenting standpoint, children are naturally pushed more toward football and basketball because both those sports keep kids in school and promise potential college scholarships.

Boxing, on the other hand, is much more hit or miss in terms of success. And even the most elite amateurs don't get college scholarships or guaranteed financial success in the pros.

In today's sports environment, if a kid is looking for athletics to take him out of poverty, boxing is the worst possible choice unless of course you're too small to play basketball or football.

My thoughts anyway.

[Mitchell Kane]

Personally I like the "Other Sport" choice.


If I start to see a huge swing in Europeans completely dominating at lower weight classes, then I'll re-think it.

I don't think it's a coincidence that we've seen the change at the HW level and most pro basketball and/or football players are 200+ pounds.

The poor, struggling inner cities that have typical produced great fighters are now producing more and more great football and basketball players. From a parenting standpoint, children are naturally pushed more toward football and basketball because both those sports keep kids in school and promise potential college scholarships.

Boxing, on the other hand, is much more hit or miss in terms of success. And even the most elite amateurs don't get college scholarships or guaranteed financial success in the pros.

In today's sports environment, if a kid is looking for athletics to take him out of poverty, boxing is the worst possible choice unless of course you're too small to play basketball or football.

My thoughts anyway.

Well, there have been Europeans competing and winning titles from junior welterweight and above and while there haven't been that many below that, there are examples with guys like Sidorenko and Kirilov.

I can agree that most American athletes don't go into boxing, but that isn't a new development in the last decade (though they may have certainly declined in that period), and doesn't really address the question of why there's been growing number of international athletes in other sports (not just boxing).

Just looking at the NBA, despite the overwhelming number of American athletes playing the sport, the last three MVP's have come from Canada and Germany, All-Stars have come from countries like Serbia, Russia and Turkey, and #1 overall draft picks have come from China, Australia and Italy.

[Mitchell Kane]

You are forgetting something. Gastineau was himself an American Footballer. So....its hardly the most controlled of tests!!!!

I wasn't forgetting (or the fact that Gastineau's opponent in his pro debut took a dive).

I was merely pointing out something those who saw that fight probably alrelady know, that the skill and ability on display that night has no parrallel in today's modern era of heavyweights.

[REEDsART]

Just looking at the NBA, despite the overwhelming number of American athletes playing the sport, the last three MVP's have come from Canada and Germany, All-Stars have come from countries like Serbia, Russia and Turkey, and #1 overall draft picks have come from China, Australia and Italy.The NBA MVP Award is Basically a POPULARITY Contest btwn Hoop Writers...& There's NO SET Criteria for that Designation...

The FACT is, Kobe Bryant has Been THE BEST Player N the NBA for MORE than 3 Years, yet he DOESN'T have even ONE MVP Award...

Fuuuurthermore, Last Years MVP Got EMBARRASSED N the 1st Round of the Playoffs by an 8th Seed...

REED Sees the Point U're Trying to Make, but Pointing to the NBA MVP Award ISN'T Bolstering your Case....

As for International # 1 Draft Picks, David Stern's Self IMPOSED Age Limit is a MUCH Responsible as Anything...


REED:cool:

[Orthodox Crusader]

Irrespective, Michael Grant is probably the "Athlete-Turned-Fighter" Acid Test for any future such guys. He was carefully managed, yes, but parlayed good athleticism with a lot of balls and desire.

Mentally, he didn't have it on the big night, but he isn't the first title contender to choke on the night, and more seasoned pros have been known to do far less than he did.

As Frank Maloney noted after the Golota fight, "Lennox Lewis Will Have To Nail HIm To the Canvas"- an allusion to Grants balls and desire to win.

Still....Grant ultimately failed....

[REEDsART]

Irrespective, Michael Grant is probably the "Athlete-Turned-Fighter" Acid Test for any future such guys. He was carefully managed, yes, but parlayed good athleticism with a lot of balls and desire.

Mentally, he didn't have it on the big night, but he isn't the first title contender to choke on the night, and more seasoned pros have been known to do far less than he did.

As Frank Maloney noted after the Golota fight, "Lennox Lewis Will Have To Nail HIm To the Canvas"- an allusion to Grants balls and desire to win.

Still....Grant ultimately failed....The POINT is, Take an Athlete N his FORMATIVE Sporting Years & Train him N Boxing...

Michael Grant Tried Virtually EVERY OTHER Sport 1st, then Went to Boxing as a LAST Resort...He was College Aged or So, when he 1st Stepped N 2 a Boxing Ring...

Like REED Said Earlier, Athletes like LeBron James or Ray Lewis Could CONCEIVABLY B Dominant Heavy's if they had @ Least DABBLED N Boxing During their FORMATIVE Sporting Years...

Obviously, it's MUCH Toooooooo LATE @ this Stage for Either of them to Become Boxers....

REED:cool:

[Mitchell Kane]

The NBA MVP Award is Basically a POPULARITY Contest btwn Hoop Writers...& There's NO SET Criteria for that Designation...

The FACT is, Kobe Bryant has Been THE BEST Player N the NBA for MORE than 3 Years, yet he DOESN'T have even ONE MVP Award...

Fuuuurthermore, Last Years MVP Got EMBARRASSED N the 1st Round of the Playoffs by an 8th Seed...

REED Sees the Point U're Trying to Make, but Pointing to the NBA MVP Award ISN'T Bolstering your Case....

As for International # 1 Draft Picks, David Stern's Self IMPOSED Age Limit is a MUCH Responsible as Anything...


REED:cool:

Even if you say it's a popularity contest, it doesn't get around the fact that Nash and Nowitki have been mainstays in the "conversation" for the award (I never thought Nash deserved it, thought Nowitzki deserved it Nash's second year and thought Bryant or James deserved it last year).

Regardless, they're both among the very elite.

I also don't think you were being selective by avoiding the all-stars and only addressing MVP and #1 draft picks (and the year Bogut was the #1 overall - as well as college POTY - there were high school players in the draft).

[Orthodox Crusader]

The POINT is, Take an Athlete N his FORMATIVE Sporting Years & Train him N Boxing...

Michael Grant Tried Virtually EVERY OTHER Sport 1st, then Went to Boxing as a LAST Resort...He was College Aged or So, when he 1st Stepped N 2 a Boxing Ring...

Like REED Said Earlier, Athletes like LeBron James or Ray Lewis Could CONCEIVABLY B Dominant Heavy's if they had @ Least DABBLED N Boxing During their FORMATIVE Sporting Years...

Obviously, it's MUCH Toooooooo LATE @ this Stage for Either of them to Become Boxers....

REED:cool:


As you said yourself, these guys don't have the mental application for the fight game. And, the fight game is 90% mental. You have to be happy to get smacked in the face to be a fighter. If you aren't....then you are not a fighter, and your athelticism doesn't count for jack.

[KaukipRrr]

Plus they only play one sport in Europe, Boxing,.. and maybe soccer.

[Orthodox Crusader]

The excuse of American in "other sports" is a manufactured one, designed to alleviate the stress caused by the loss of their coveted heavyweight championship. Its really the post-modern equivalent of a racist white riot, the mental knee-jerk reaction to the unexpected and irrecoverable loss of a sacred covenant. They can't understand how they lost it, so they make excuses and look for sanctuary in the "other sports" excuse.

[REEDsART]

As you said yourself, these guys don't have the mental application for the fight game. And, the fight game is 90% mental. You have to be happy to get smacked in the face to be a fighter. If you aren't....then you are not a fighter, and your athelticism doesn't count for jack.But NOBODY Starts Off Being "Happy" about Getting SMACKED N the Face...

It's LEARNED Behavior...

Which Takes Us BACK to REED's Point about Elite American Athletes Pursuing Boxing During their FORMATIVE Sporting Years...

THAT's the Problem...


REED:cool:

[Orthodox Crusader]

But NOBODY Starts Off Being "Happy" about Getting SMACKED N the Face...

It's LEARNED Behavior...

Which Takes Us BACK to REED's Point about Elite American Athletes Pursuing Boxing During their FORMATIVE Sporting Years...

THAT's the Problem...


REED:cool:

So....what was so different about the fifties and sixties? As the money in boxing gets better, fewer people want to do it? That makes no sense. I don't think its just learned behaviour, I think some guys are just born fighters. Sure, you can condition a man to do almost anything, right up to the point of brainwashing, so the question stands: what made earlier generations of American men choose boxing over other sports. It can't have been the money or the glamour per se, because for many years the money was shit and the glam was non existant. In fact, at one point, boxing was openly referred to as the "so-called sport of professional boxing".

[REEDsART]

Even if you say it's a popularity contest, it doesn't get around the fact that Nash and Nowitki have been mainstays in the "conversation" for the award (I never thought Nash deserved it, thought Nowitzki deserved it Nash's second year and thought Bryant or James deserved it last year).

Regardless, they're both among the very elite.

I also don't think you were being selective by avoiding the all-stars and only addressing MVP and #1 draft picks (and the year Bogut was the #1 overall - as well as college POTY - there were high school players in the draft).There's Almost ALWAYS Been International Players N the "Conversation", so to Speak...

15-20-25 Years Ago, Guys like Drazen Petrovic & Arvidas Sabonis were Considered Amongst THE ELITE Basketball Players on the Planet...That's NATHAN New:nono: ...

The Game has GROWN by Leaps & Bounds but UNDENIABLY, the VAST MAJORITY of Elite Players R STILL American...@ NO Point has THE BEST Player N the League Been NON-American...& REED Doubts if that will Change N Our Lifetime...

The MEDIA Gave Nash 2 MVP's while IGNORING how the Mavs (his Former Team) FLOURISHED N his Absence...Dirk Got the Award AFTER MEEKLY Bowing Out of the Playoffs...All the While, an AMERICAN was CLEARLY the Best Player N the League...TRUELY "The Most Valuable Player" N the League...

The Fact that Bogut & Yao were # 1 is More of a COINCIDENCE than a Trend...


REED:cool:

[REEDsART]

So....what was so different about the fifties and sixties? As the money in boxing gets better, fewer people want to do it? That makes no sense. I don't think its just learned behaviour, I think some guys are just born fighters. Sure, you can condition a man to do almost anything, right up to the point of brainwashing, so the question stands: what made earlier generations of American men choose boxing over other sports. It can't have been the money or the glamour per se, because for many years the money was shit and the glam was non existant. In fact, at one point, boxing was openly referred to as the "so-called sport of professional boxing".N the 50's & 60's, Sports like Basketball & Football DIDN'T Pay Nearly as Much as they Do Now...Football & Basketball Players from that Era Had REGULAR JOBS During the Off Season...

From Day One, Boxing has ALWAYS Been a POOR MAN's Sport...& Since Day One, Only ELITE Level Fighters have Garnered Financial Security...

1nce Formerly Poor Americans had OPTIONS to Become Doctors, Lawyers, etc., & 1nce Football & Basketball Salaries Made it FEASIBLE for a Player to B SECURE for the Rest of his Life, the Level of Boxers DECLINED...

& U're WRONG when U Say the "Glam was Non Existent" N Boxing...Back N the Day, Boxing was MUCH MORE Popular than Basketball or Football...Hell, the Super Bowl AND NBA Finals were SQUEEZED Into Network Schedules Back then...If REED's Not Mistaken, the End of Super Bowl I was PREEMPTED by the Start of "The Sound of Music"...

But All the While, Boxing & Baseball Reigned SUPREME...


REED:cool:

[Orthodox Crusader]

N the 50's & 60's, Sports like Basketball & Football DIDN'T Pay Nearly as Much as they Do Now...Football & Basketball Players from that Era Had REGULAR JOBS During the Off Season...

From Day One, Boxing has ALWAYS Been a POOR MAN's Sport...& Since Day One, Only ELITE Level Fighters have Garnered Financial Security...

1nce Formerly Poor Americans had OPTIONS to Become Doctors, Lawyers, etc., & 1nce Football & Basketball Salaries Made it FEASIBLE for a Player to B SECURE for the Rest of his Life, the Level of Boxers DECLINED...

& U're WRONG when U Say the "Glam was Non Existent" N Boxing...Back N the Day, Boxing was MUCH MORE Popular than Basketball or Football...Hell, the Super Bowl AND NBA Finals were SQUEEZED Into Network Schedules Back then...If REED's Not Mistaken, the End of Super Bowl I was PREEMPTED by the Start of "The Sound of Music"...

But All the While, Boxing & Baseball Reigned SUPREME...



REED:cool:

Boxing has always "suffered" from fall off. Right from the earliest Jewish non-participation through to the alleged fall off in {African} American interest at the present moment. However to say that boxing did not suffer from, at the very least, a dip in form, would be inaccurate. In the 1950's and early 1960's boxing did suffer badly from an image problem. Hell, the early 1990's were shit too.

PS Charley Powell was another of the big athletic footballers who tried to make the transition. He failed. No chin, apparently. I am still convinced at a lot of guys KNOW they would never make it as fighters, and so deliberately make a move into other sports. Later on, they try and reverse their decision and are found wanting.

[Mitchell Kane]

There's Almost ALWAYS Been International Players N the "Conversation", so to Speak...

15-20-25 Years Ago, Guys like Drazen Petrovic & Arvidas Sabonis were Considered Amongst THE ELITE Basketball Players on the Planet...That's NATHAN New:nono: ...

The Game has GROWN by Leaps & Bounds but UNDENIABLY, the VAST MAJORITY of Elite Players R STILL American...@ NO Point has THE BEST Player N the League Been NON-American...& REED Doubts if that will Change N Our Lifetime...

The MEDIA Gave Nash 2 MVP's while IGNORING how the Mavs (his Former Team) FLOURISHED N his Absence...Dirk Got the Award AFTER MEEKLY Bowing Out of the Playoffs...All the While, an AMERICAN was CLEARLY the Best Player N the League...TRUELY "The Most Valuable Player" N the League...

The Fact that Bogut & Yao were # 1 is More of a COINCIDENCE than a Trend...


REED:cool:

Though therre have been international players in the past, the number has more than doubled in just the last decade, and to say there have been some players (like Petrovic and Sabonis) is like saying there's been no change in baseball because guys like Orlando Cepeda and Roberto Clemente were MVP's.

The overall numbers have changed dramatically.

Before, it was only the elite international players coming over, now you have international guys ranging from the best players on their teams to role players to bench players, and they've been MVPs, All-Stars, All-NBA, Rookie of the Year, etc.

Playoff performance doesn't have any impact MVP voting, since it's done before the playoffs (which you know), and like I said, Nowitzki had a very good argument for the award the year Nash won it the second time.

Regarding the "best" player in the NBA, maybe it will remain an American...but then nobody's arguing the best p4p boxer is from Europe/Eastern Europe.

[Octopus]

It's basically as easy as "Too much risk,and too little reward"!!

Even though the movies are fictional,Rocky is pretty much what can,does and has happened to boxers ever since the artform began!! Work your balls off and take so much damage yet can as easily end up broke in the end!!

Not to mention,boxing is watched by about as many people who watch hockey nowadays. Which if you factor in on a global scale as compared to other sports,it's NOTHING!!

And as others have mentioned,no facilities and encouragement from peers or schools!!

[D MAN]

It is obviously a combination of all the choices.

[Bob N. Weave]

There's MMA besides the UFC :eeeek: Wow, I learn something everyday. The fact is if any of these guys in MMA had a chance to be a great heavyweight they would be. Why? Well, we all see how these guys get robbed and don't make shit. It's why MMA don't have any elite boxers until they can't box worth a damn anymore. Until MMA starts paying worth a damn they won't be stealing talent from any other sports.

Why the hell would any MMA guy have been a boxer if they had the chance? This is ignorant. It's like saying that every football player would be a basketball player.....if they had the chance. Different sports dude.

[valdosta]

Why the hell would any MMA guy have been a boxer if they had the chance? This is ignorant. It's like saying that every football player would be a basketball player.....if they had the chance. Different sports dude.

Why wouldn't they? A top level boxer gets paid much more than those guys. Especially a heavyweight. It's just common sense. If they could be good boxers they would be. They can't so instead the are in MMA. Until MMA compensates properly they won't be stealing talent from any serious sport.

[Streetfighter]

It's George Bush's fault.

[Hut*Hut]

Why are there no good american heavyweights? Because EVERY SINGLE LAST FUCKING ONE OF THEM IS FAT AS FUCK!:flip: :flip: :shit: :flip: :doh: :shit: