lb 4 lb
02-04-2008, 09:16 PM
Awesome article from maxboxing:
By John Scully (ICEJOHNSCULLY@aol.com)
Few know the ins and out of boxing as intimately as “the Iceman” John Scully, a U.S. amateur standout in the ‘80s who became a world-ranked professional fighter in ‘90s and now makes his living as a top-notch pro and amateur trainer.
Scully, who currently trains 122-pound contender Mike Oliver, has followed amateur boxing closely since his youth (even before he became a nationally rated participant) and he hasn’t lost any of his passion for the U.S. amateur scene, which has spawned some of the biggest names in the sport over the past 30 years.
If you want to know the amateur past of the top contenders and champions of this era – the future standouts they beat and the boxers, particularly those you never heard of, who beat them back in the day – “the Iceman” is the guy to ask.
Scully has been working on an autobiography called “The Iceman Diaries” for a few years. One chapter he decided to cut during the editing process was a compilation of the many amateur scene stories that he had heard and witnessed over the decades. However, just because the chapter won’t be in his book doesn’t mean hardcore fans worldwide shouldn’t enjoy it. Here, presented exclusively on MaxBoxing.com in a weekly multi-part series we’re calling “Who Beat Who”, are Scully’s tales from the amateurs.
[Editor’s note: anyone interested in contacting Mr. Scully, or making direct comments about any of these fights (he was there for quite a few of them), may email him at IcemanDiaries@aol.com or ICEJOHNSCULLY@aol.com (ICEJOHNSCULLY@aol.com).]
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One aspect of boxing that I have always been very intrigued by is the results of amateur fights involving boxers that went on to become champions and contenders.
The national amateur tournaments are full of potential champions and if you ever get a chance to go check one out then by all means go and do so because you will be seeing the future stars of boxing. I have been to many of these tournaments as both a boxer and as a coach and I witnessed dozens of future stars and thousands of interesting results.
For example, I saw Roy Jones, Jr. when he was 19 years old, Shane Mosley and Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson when they were 16, and Bones Adams when he was just 13. I saw Lawrence Clay-Bey very early in his amateur career in local tournaments the Connecticut area (where I grew up) and I was present at the same Golden Gloves tournament back in 1983 (as a spectator) that featured a 201-pound 16 year old named Michael "The Tank" Tyson.
There are many excellent amateur boxers who didn't pan out for one reason or another as professionals. Because of that, they don't get the respect I feel they deserve. Many of them were tremendous amateur boxers who were looked at in the same light (at the time) as the guys who went on to become superstars in the game. In other words, there were times when future stars like Riddick Bowe, Roy Jones and Shane Mosley were not the top guys in their respective weight class and the guys who were actually rated above them back then are guys you likely wouldn't recognize if they walked by you today on your own street.
A perfect example of what I am talking about is reflected in the professional record of former undisputed middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins. You all know the big names he fought, stars like Roy Jones, Antonio Tarver, Oscar De La Hoya and Jermain Taylor, who were all great former amateurs in their day; but those of us who know the deal are also impressed with his impressive wins over former top flight amateurs Dennis Milton, Adam Garland and Roy Richie.
Garland in particular was an elite U.S. amateur back in the early 1980s who many thought had the power and style to become a real force as a professional, but for whatever one of the million reasons that some guys don't pan out to full potential, he didn't make it to the heights that peers of his (at 165 pounds) like Virgil Hill and Michael Nunn did. And for the record, Hopkins also scored professional victories over several other former top-class U.S. amateurs including Joe Lipsey, Percy Harris, and Willie Kemp.
It is also amazing and interesting to me that you can be at what might appear to be an average run of the mill tournament somewhere and you will have no idea who the guys on the show may or may not turn out to be in the future. Like the night of February 16, 1983 at the New England Golden Gloves tournament in Lowell, Massachusetts, for example, when bout number eight that night saw "Irish" Mickey Ward and Joey Gamache match up in a 132-pound bout, while bout number 14 saw John Wilkinson defeat future IBF world title challenger Kevin Daigle, and bout number 21 featured a fierce 16-year old heavyweight by the name of Tyson.
So here we go with just some of the most interesting amateur fights from days gone by that I remember either seeing live or reading about:
Future world light heavyweight champion and IBF heavyweight champ Michael Spinks lost a decision to future well known trainer Tommy Brooks in the 1975 National AAU finals at 165 pounds. In the finals of the 1976 National Golden Gloves (I have it on video tape), at 132 pounds, future great Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor won a decision over another future legend in Tommy "Hit Man" Hearns (back when amateur boxers didn't wear head gear). Later on, in the qualifying tournament for the 1976 Olympics, Pryor defeated future WBA lightweight champion Hilmer Kenty before losing a decision to Howard Davis Jr. (in what was the second time that Howard defeated Aaron as an amateur). Pryor also scored a 1976 decision over future IBF 140-pound world champion Gary Hinton. Hearns went on to beat future title challengers Bobby Joe Young (twice) and Ronnie Shields in 1977.
The 1991 world amateur championship final saw future professional world champions Vernon Forrest and Kostya Tzyu match up at 139 pounds with Kostya landing more than a few solid and very accurate straight right hands on his way to capturing a solid decision over his much taller opponent. Also in 1991, Vernon won the U.S. Championships with consecutive victories over Terron Millet, Ross Thompson, Lamar Murphy and Stevie Johnston.
Vernon then turned around and had another spectacular week at the 1992 U.S. Olympic Trials where he defeated future world title challenger Robert "Push Up" Frazier, and a pair of future world champions in "Sugar" Shane Mosley and Stevie Johnston on his way to the championship at 139 pounds.
Vernon also once scored an amateur decision over future IBF welterweight champion Michael Piccorillo.
People know Chris Byrd as a former IBF heavyweight champion and some even remember him back when he was a 165-pound amateur in the 1992 Olympics. But I remember Chris way back when he was a 139-pound amateur who twice lost to Todd Foster in 1988. Once, in the finals of the U.S. Championships and again in the U.S. Olympic Trials a few months later, Chris won a final-round decision over future IBF junior middleweight champion Paul Vaden in that same tournament one year later (the 1989 USA/ABF championships) in the 156 pound class.
In what may be Byrd's most interesting amateur result, he was once stopped (on an RSC) at 165 pounds by another future champ in Joe Calzaghe in a USA-Italy meet in December of 1992.
Future WBA middleweight champ William Joppy lost by decision to Chris Byrd at the 1992 U.S. Olympic Trials at 165 pounds. Joppy also fought, and defeated future world title challenger Antwun Echols in the amateurs. At the 1992 Eastern U.S. Olympic Trials Joppy scored a quarterfinal round decision over future cruiserweight contender Ravea Springs on his way to the gold medal at that tournament.
In the 156-pound final of those same 1992 Olympic Trials Raul Marquez scored a wide decision over future contender Echols, a semi-final win that week over future WBO middleweight champ Lonnie Bradley and a quarterfinal stoppage over future contender (and two-time Hopkins challenger) Robert Allen.
Another quarterfinal bout in the 156-pound class that week saw Bradley score a decision over future WBC 154-pound champion Keith Mullings.
Future heavyweight contenders David Izon (then known as David Izonreti) and David Tua met up in the 1992 Olympic semi-finals in the 201 pound division where Izon captured a decision victory.
Roy Jones scored decisions over future professional title holders and contenders such as Derrick "Poppy Too Sweet" Rolon, NABF middleweight champ Fabian Williams, WBO junior middleweight champ Verno Phillips, title challenger Thomas Tate, Ray McElroy, WBC 168-pound champion Richie Woodhall of England (in the ‘88 Olympics) and WBA 168-pound champ Frank Liles (twice). “RJ” also lost decisions to Liles and WBC middleweight champ Gerald McClellan.
By John Scully (ICEJOHNSCULLY@aol.com)
Few know the ins and out of boxing as intimately as “the Iceman” John Scully, a U.S. amateur standout in the ‘80s who became a world-ranked professional fighter in ‘90s and now makes his living as a top-notch pro and amateur trainer.
Scully, who currently trains 122-pound contender Mike Oliver, has followed amateur boxing closely since his youth (even before he became a nationally rated participant) and he hasn’t lost any of his passion for the U.S. amateur scene, which has spawned some of the biggest names in the sport over the past 30 years.
If you want to know the amateur past of the top contenders and champions of this era – the future standouts they beat and the boxers, particularly those you never heard of, who beat them back in the day – “the Iceman” is the guy to ask.
Scully has been working on an autobiography called “The Iceman Diaries” for a few years. One chapter he decided to cut during the editing process was a compilation of the many amateur scene stories that he had heard and witnessed over the decades. However, just because the chapter won’t be in his book doesn’t mean hardcore fans worldwide shouldn’t enjoy it. Here, presented exclusively on MaxBoxing.com in a weekly multi-part series we’re calling “Who Beat Who”, are Scully’s tales from the amateurs.
[Editor’s note: anyone interested in contacting Mr. Scully, or making direct comments about any of these fights (he was there for quite a few of them), may email him at IcemanDiaries@aol.com or ICEJOHNSCULLY@aol.com (ICEJOHNSCULLY@aol.com).]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
One aspect of boxing that I have always been very intrigued by is the results of amateur fights involving boxers that went on to become champions and contenders.
The national amateur tournaments are full of potential champions and if you ever get a chance to go check one out then by all means go and do so because you will be seeing the future stars of boxing. I have been to many of these tournaments as both a boxer and as a coach and I witnessed dozens of future stars and thousands of interesting results.
For example, I saw Roy Jones, Jr. when he was 19 years old, Shane Mosley and Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson when they were 16, and Bones Adams when he was just 13. I saw Lawrence Clay-Bey very early in his amateur career in local tournaments the Connecticut area (where I grew up) and I was present at the same Golden Gloves tournament back in 1983 (as a spectator) that featured a 201-pound 16 year old named Michael "The Tank" Tyson.
There are many excellent amateur boxers who didn't pan out for one reason or another as professionals. Because of that, they don't get the respect I feel they deserve. Many of them were tremendous amateur boxers who were looked at in the same light (at the time) as the guys who went on to become superstars in the game. In other words, there were times when future stars like Riddick Bowe, Roy Jones and Shane Mosley were not the top guys in their respective weight class and the guys who were actually rated above them back then are guys you likely wouldn't recognize if they walked by you today on your own street.
A perfect example of what I am talking about is reflected in the professional record of former undisputed middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins. You all know the big names he fought, stars like Roy Jones, Antonio Tarver, Oscar De La Hoya and Jermain Taylor, who were all great former amateurs in their day; but those of us who know the deal are also impressed with his impressive wins over former top flight amateurs Dennis Milton, Adam Garland and Roy Richie.
Garland in particular was an elite U.S. amateur back in the early 1980s who many thought had the power and style to become a real force as a professional, but for whatever one of the million reasons that some guys don't pan out to full potential, he didn't make it to the heights that peers of his (at 165 pounds) like Virgil Hill and Michael Nunn did. And for the record, Hopkins also scored professional victories over several other former top-class U.S. amateurs including Joe Lipsey, Percy Harris, and Willie Kemp.
It is also amazing and interesting to me that you can be at what might appear to be an average run of the mill tournament somewhere and you will have no idea who the guys on the show may or may not turn out to be in the future. Like the night of February 16, 1983 at the New England Golden Gloves tournament in Lowell, Massachusetts, for example, when bout number eight that night saw "Irish" Mickey Ward and Joey Gamache match up in a 132-pound bout, while bout number 14 saw John Wilkinson defeat future IBF world title challenger Kevin Daigle, and bout number 21 featured a fierce 16-year old heavyweight by the name of Tyson.
So here we go with just some of the most interesting amateur fights from days gone by that I remember either seeing live or reading about:
Future world light heavyweight champion and IBF heavyweight champ Michael Spinks lost a decision to future well known trainer Tommy Brooks in the 1975 National AAU finals at 165 pounds. In the finals of the 1976 National Golden Gloves (I have it on video tape), at 132 pounds, future great Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor won a decision over another future legend in Tommy "Hit Man" Hearns (back when amateur boxers didn't wear head gear). Later on, in the qualifying tournament for the 1976 Olympics, Pryor defeated future WBA lightweight champion Hilmer Kenty before losing a decision to Howard Davis Jr. (in what was the second time that Howard defeated Aaron as an amateur). Pryor also scored a 1976 decision over future IBF 140-pound world champion Gary Hinton. Hearns went on to beat future title challengers Bobby Joe Young (twice) and Ronnie Shields in 1977.
The 1991 world amateur championship final saw future professional world champions Vernon Forrest and Kostya Tzyu match up at 139 pounds with Kostya landing more than a few solid and very accurate straight right hands on his way to capturing a solid decision over his much taller opponent. Also in 1991, Vernon won the U.S. Championships with consecutive victories over Terron Millet, Ross Thompson, Lamar Murphy and Stevie Johnston.
Vernon then turned around and had another spectacular week at the 1992 U.S. Olympic Trials where he defeated future world title challenger Robert "Push Up" Frazier, and a pair of future world champions in "Sugar" Shane Mosley and Stevie Johnston on his way to the championship at 139 pounds.
Vernon also once scored an amateur decision over future IBF welterweight champion Michael Piccorillo.
People know Chris Byrd as a former IBF heavyweight champion and some even remember him back when he was a 165-pound amateur in the 1992 Olympics. But I remember Chris way back when he was a 139-pound amateur who twice lost to Todd Foster in 1988. Once, in the finals of the U.S. Championships and again in the U.S. Olympic Trials a few months later, Chris won a final-round decision over future IBF junior middleweight champion Paul Vaden in that same tournament one year later (the 1989 USA/ABF championships) in the 156 pound class.
In what may be Byrd's most interesting amateur result, he was once stopped (on an RSC) at 165 pounds by another future champ in Joe Calzaghe in a USA-Italy meet in December of 1992.
Future WBA middleweight champ William Joppy lost by decision to Chris Byrd at the 1992 U.S. Olympic Trials at 165 pounds. Joppy also fought, and defeated future world title challenger Antwun Echols in the amateurs. At the 1992 Eastern U.S. Olympic Trials Joppy scored a quarterfinal round decision over future cruiserweight contender Ravea Springs on his way to the gold medal at that tournament.
In the 156-pound final of those same 1992 Olympic Trials Raul Marquez scored a wide decision over future contender Echols, a semi-final win that week over future WBO middleweight champ Lonnie Bradley and a quarterfinal stoppage over future contender (and two-time Hopkins challenger) Robert Allen.
Another quarterfinal bout in the 156-pound class that week saw Bradley score a decision over future WBC 154-pound champion Keith Mullings.
Future heavyweight contenders David Izon (then known as David Izonreti) and David Tua met up in the 1992 Olympic semi-finals in the 201 pound division where Izon captured a decision victory.
Roy Jones scored decisions over future professional title holders and contenders such as Derrick "Poppy Too Sweet" Rolon, NABF middleweight champ Fabian Williams, WBO junior middleweight champ Verno Phillips, title challenger Thomas Tate, Ray McElroy, WBC 168-pound champion Richie Woodhall of England (in the ‘88 Olympics) and WBA 168-pound champ Frank Liles (twice). “RJ” also lost decisions to Liles and WBC middleweight champ Gerald McClellan.