The Daily Obamanation .... ALL ROLLED INTO ONE

[PetreTG]

:lol:

C'Mon ... you know you wanted it ... he's your man!

So ... bring all your good news about the great things Obama is doing and how he's fighting hard for WE THE PEOPLE of the United States of America.

CHANGE BABY!!!

Here ... let me start.

The nation is on the brink of insolvency , we're borrowing billions from China , the USDollar is in the toilet, people are losing jobs by the 10's of 1000's and our banks look to be a straw away from failure ... but GOD BLESS HIS SOUL the insanely Generous Barack Hussein Obama wants to add nearly 1TRILLION more dollars to the money we already give to other countries to help the poor impoverished children of countries that hate us.

What a fucking genius!
:bears:
=================
Obama’s Global Tax Proposal Up for Senate Vote

AIM Column | By Cliff Kincaid | February 12, 2008


It appears the Senate version is being pushed not only by Biden and Obama, a member of the committee, but Lugar, the ranking Republican member.



A nice-sounding bill called the "Global Poverty Act," sponsored by Democratic presidential candidate and Senator Barack Obama, is up for a Senate vote on Thursday and could result in the imposition of a global tax on the United States. The bill, which has the support of many liberal religious groups, makes levels of U.S. foreign aid spending subservient to the dictates of the United Nations.



Senator Joe Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has not endorsed either Senator Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton in the presidential race. But on Thursday, February 14, he is trying to rush Obama's "Global Poverty Act" (S.2433) through his committee. The legislation would commit the U.S. to spending 0.7 percent of gross national product on foreign aid, which amounts to a phenomenal 13-year total of $845 billion over and above what the U.S. already spends.



The bill, which is item number four on the committee's business meeting agenda, (http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/2008/hrg080214a.html)passed the House by a voice vote last year because most members didn't realize what was in it. Congressional sponsors have been careful not to calculate the amount of foreign aid spending that it would require.


According to the website (http://foreign.senate.gov/hearing2007.html) of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, no hearings have been held on the Obama bill in that body.


A release (http://obama.senate.gov/press/071211-obama_hagel_can/) from the Obama Senate office about the bill declares, "In 2000, the U.S. joined more than 180 countries at the United Nations Millennium Summit and vowed to reduce global poverty by 2015. We are halfway towards this deadline, and it is time the United States makes it a priority of our foreign policy to meet this goal and help those who are struggling day to day."



The legislation itself requires the President "to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the United States foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people worldwide, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day."



The bill defines the term "Millennium Development Goals" as the goals set out in the United Nations Millennium Declaration (http://www.un.org/millennium/declaration/ares552e.pdf), General Assembly Resolution 55/2 (2000).


The U.N. says (http://mirror.undp.org/unmillenniumproject/press/qa4_e.htm) that "The commitment to provide 0.7% of gross national product (GNP) as official development assistance was first made 35 years ago in a General Assembly resolution, but it has been reaffirmed repeatedly over the years, including at the 2002 global Financing for Development conference in Monterrey, Mexico. However, in 2004, total aid from the industrialized countries totaled just $78.6 billion-or about 0.25% of their collective GNP."



In addition to seeking to eradicate poverty, that declaration commits nations to banning "small arms and light weapons" and ratifying a series of treaties, including the International Criminal Court Treaty, the Kyoto Protocol (global warming treaty), the Convention on Biological Diversity, the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, and the Convention on the Rights of the Child.



The Millennium Declaration also affirms the U.N. as "the indispensable common house of the entire human family, through which we will seek to realize our universal aspirations for peace, cooperation and development."
Jeffrey Sachs, who runs the U.N.'s "Millennium Project," says that the U.N. plan to force the U.S. to pay 0.7 percent of GNP in increased foreign aid spending would add $65 billion a year to what the U.S. already spends.


Over a 13-year period, from 2002, when the U.N.'s Financing for Development conference was held, to the target year of 2015, when the U.S. is expected to meet the "Millennium Development Goals," this amounts to $845 billion. And the only way to raise that kind of money, Sachs has written (http://www.cid.harvard.edu/cidinthenews/articles/sf9108.html), is through a global tax, preferably on carbon-emitting fossil fuels.
Obama's bill has only six co-sponsors. They are Senators Maria Cantwell, Dianne Feinstein, Richard Lugar, Richard Durbin, Chuck Hagel and Robert Menendez. But it appears that Biden and Obama see passage of this bill as a way to highlight Democratic Party priorities in the Senate.



The House version (H.R. 1302), sponsored by Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.), had only 84 co-sponsors before it was suddenly brought up on the House floor last September 25 and was passed by voice vote. House Republicans were caught off-guard, unaware that the pro-U.N. measure committed the U.S. to spending hundreds of billions of dollars.



It appears the Senate version is being pushed not only by Biden and Obama, a member of the committee, but Lugar, the ranking Republican member. Lugar has worked with Obama in the past to promote more foreign aid for Russia, supposedly to stem nuclear proliferation, and has become Obama's mentor. Like Biden, Lugar is a globalist. They have both promoted passage of the U.N.'s Law of the Sea Treaty, for example.


The so-called "Lugar-Obama initiative" was modeled after the Nunn-Lugar program, also known as the Cooperative Threat Reduction (CTR) program, which was designed to eliminate weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union. But one defense analyst, Rich Kelly, noted evidence (http://www.cato.org/pubs/fpbriefs/fpb-039.html) that "CTR funds have eased the Russian military's budgetary woes, freeing resources for such initiatives as the war in Chechnya and defense modernization." He recommended that Congress "eliminate CTR funding so that it does not finance additional, perhaps more threatening, programs in the former Soviet Union." However, over $6 billion has already been spent on the program.
Another program modeled on Nunn-Lugar, the Initiatives for Proliferation Prevention (IPP), was recently exposed (http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_110/110-ltr.020608.Bodman.NonProliferation.pdf) as having funded nuclear projects in Iran through Russia.



More foreign aid through passage of the Global Poverty Act was identified as one of the strategic goals of InterAction, the alliance of U.S-based international non-governmental organizations that lobbies for more foreign aid. The group is heavily financed by the U.S. Government, having received $1.4 million from taxpayers in fiscal year 2005 and $1.7 million in 2006. However, InterAction recently issued a report accusing the United States of "falling short on its commitment to rid the world of dire poverty by 2015 under the U.N. Millennium Development Goals..."



It's not clear what President Bush would do if the bill passes the Senate. The bill (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-2433) itself quotes Bush as declaring that "We fight against poverty because opportunity is a fundamental right to human dignity." Bush's former top aide, Michael J. Gerson, writes in his new book, Heroic Conservatism, that Bush should be remembered as the President who "sponsored the largest percentage increases in foreign assistance since the Marshall Plan..."


Even these increases, however, will not be enough to satisfy the requirements of the Obama bill. A global tax will clearly be necessary to force American taxpayers to provide the money.
Americans who would like their senators to know what they are voting on can contact them through information at this official Senate site. (http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm)

[PetreTG]

Oh ... and in case you didn't read that article ... Requires us to basically pay those taxes to the UN.

:bears:

[Rock on]

:rolleyes:

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: ???? what?

[Orthodox Crusader]

I am getting tired of Osama not addressing the major issues. I think he once said he would be prepared to Bomb pakistan. My guess is he said that so he could be quoted on it when people say he is soft on terror. Of course, Osama is a Jihadist sleeper anyways so it doesn't surprise me he wants to fund his scumbag fellows in shitholes like Egypt and Syria.

[jaws1216]

this is the biggest bit of dirt you have on him?

It seems there are two types of political posters on here, retards and trolls.

[PetreTG]

Biggest bit of dirt ?

This is The OBAMANation thread baby ... this is just todays NEWS!

:clap:

Feel free to post all the good things he stands for ... you know CHANGE!

Economic policies , healthcare , taxes .... C'mon , BRING IT!

Convince everyone how great he is ... cause he's more than just a charismatic speaker ! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[LOK]

Obama is prolly the best one left..

would you rather Hilary?
McCain?

[r o o s t e r]

your criticism is that he wants to give more foreign aid? so you guys can cut back on your widescreen tvs and designer clothes, and someone can get some rice?

[Nobleart]

your criticism is that he wants to give more foreign aid? so you guys can cut back on your widescreen tvs and designer clothes, and someone can get some rice?


If we didn't buy all those widescreen tv's and designer clothes, sweatshop owners in Korea and Thailand would be going broke right now. :nono:

[LOK]

like I said from early on

I like Paul..

but I'm realistic, he does not have a shot in hell..

we have to pick between Obama/Hilary or McCain

[r o o s t e r]

If we didn't buy all those widescreen tv's and designer clothes, sweatshop owners in Korea and Thailand would be going broke right now. :nono:

but a tiny proportion of a tv's retail price is nowhere near as good as giving a larger amount in aid. you cut out the fatcat middle-men.

starbucks lattes, 4x4 cars, a new decor in your kitchen, ... give just half that money to foreign aid and we can save some serious lives.

[LOK]

but a tiny proportion of a tv's retail price is nowhere near as good as giving a larger amount in aid. you cut out the fatcat middle-men.

starbucks lattes, 4x4 cars, a new decor in your kitchen, ... give just half that money to foreign aid and we can save some serious lives.

I bet you'd like that rooster.. I bet you'd like us to send you all our money so you can buy rubbers to sodomize piegons with!! sick o

[Nobleart]

but a tiny proportion of a tv's retail price is nowhere near as good as giving a larger amount in aid. you cut out the fatcat middle-men.

starbucks lattes, 4x4 cars, a new decor in your kitchen, ... give just half that money to foreign aid and we can save some serious lives.


Hippie!! You'd rather the children of Cambodia go to school rather then create luxury goods for us for mere pennies? :dunno:

I would die without my IPOD. Can the common Rwandian say the same thing about clean well water? I don't think he rightfully can. :nono:

[Haymaker]

I don't think foreign aid is the priority right now. Obama should focus on the local economy. To put an end to the war, or at least make sure that money the taxpayers "invested" don't change to money "spent" or even worse, "lost".
And to promote laws to save the environment, not because of that "blobal warming" bullshit theory, but to stop deforestation, which is costing us a lot.

[PetreTG]

If we didn't buy all those widescreen tv's and designer clothes, sweatshop owners in Korea and Thailand would be going broke right now. :nono:

Aint that the truth :lol:

Instead it's America going broke. And pretty soon , many will be glad to get a bowl of rice. :doh:

[Arben]

More fear mongering from a Ron Paul supporter. Typical.:rolleyes:

[PetreTG]

More fear mongering from a Ron Paul supporter. Typical.:rolleyes:

What fear mongering exactly ?

I have posted a bill Obama wants passed. It's a brilliant plan to bankrupt the country and open us up to paying taxes to the world through the UN.

Do you like that ?

[TFK]

Like I said before, I'm probably gonna end up voting for the most qualified 3rd party candidate. As an American, I feel it's my duty to vote, but I can't bring myself to vote for Hillary, Obama or McCain. Whoever wins is gonna make a terrible president, and things will get worse before they get better.

I just wonder, if Hillary or Obama win, will the anti-war sentiment switch over to the Republicans. We all know, that no matter what they say, Hillary or Obama will not end the war and bring our troops home. I'd be willing to bet that many of the same people that were for the war will suddenly be against it, and many of the same people that were against the war will suddenly be for it.

TFK

[puerto rock]

^^I was always against the war so I doubt my sentiment will change regardless of whom is president.

[godking]

What fear mongering exactly ?

I have posted a bill Obama wants passed. It's a brilliant plan to bankrupt the country and open us up to paying taxes to the world through the UN.

Do you like that ?Ron Paul wants the US to leave the WTO a move that would guarantee the destruction of our economy .

Dont ever EVER presume to talk about another economic plan while being a supporter of a man who want to wreck our economy by leaving the WTO.

[LOK]

Ron Paul wants the US to leave the WTO a move that would guarantee the destruction of our economy .

Dont ever EVER presume to talk about another economic plan while being a supporter of a man who want to wreck our economy by leaving the WTO.

:eeeek:

[Arben]

What fear mongering exactly ?

I have posted a bill Obama wants passed. It's a brilliant plan to bankrupt the country and open us up to paying taxes to the world through the UN.

Do you like that ?
"The country will be bankrupt unless Paul is president."

"We're giving money to the enemy," when someone wants to give aid to the poor.

"We're going to be shot at if we can't have our anti-aircraft missiles," when someone feels that it's a bit unnecessary and excessive for people to own heavy weaponry especially when you consider the statistics that show a majority of violent crimes involving a weapon, obtained said weapon from someone that bought it legally.(FYI: Ron Paul recieves support from white supremacists. I wonder who they think is doing the shooting.)

"The mexicans are ruining the country," when someone actually comes up with a realistic answer to the immigration issue as opposed to the dumbass idea of building a wall and putting them all in jail. (FYI: Ron Paul recieves support from white supremacists)

"Get the government off our backs," as if the government really wants to hear me order a pizza or their intentions are to do so as many of you point out.


and then of course....


"9/11 was an inside job. The government will kill us at a moment's notice."

"Chemtrails put together by the government will kill us all."

yadda

yadda

yadda

...the fear mongering never ends.

[PetreTG]

"The country will be bankrupt unless Paul is president."

"We're giving money to the enemy," when someone wants to give aid to the poor.

"We're going to be shot at if we can't have our anti-aircraft missiles," when someone feels that it's a bit unnecessary and excessive for people to own heavy weaponry especially when you consider the statistics that show a majority of violent crimes involving a weapon, obtained said weapon from someone that bought it legally.(FYI: Ron Paul recieves support from white supremacists. I wonder who they think is doing the shooting.)

"The mexicans are ruining the country," when someone actually comes up with a realistic answer to the immigration issue as opposed to the dumbass idea of building a wall and putting them all in jail. (FYI: Ron Paul recieves support from white supremacists)

"Get the government off our backs," as if the government really wants to hear me order a pizza or their intentions are to do so as many of you point out.


Boy oh boy ... you sure like to twist peoples words ... I don't think you got a single point right :lol:


BTW ... it's not fear mongering when it's true.

The country is going bankrupt. Don't think I ever said the only solution was RP , but I'm sure that's the way you saw it. I'm pretty sure I've said it's a problem that may be unsolvable at this point.

Didn't say we're giving money to the enemy ... though that IS a true statement. The USA give lots of money to what could be called enemy nations. I said countries that hate us which is most of the world these days.

Your next comment about anti-aircraft missiles and white supremacists just doesn't make any sense at all ... so I'm not gonna even bother to try to tell you were you went wrong... The only one that understands that mess is you :lol:


To be honest ... the rest of what you wrote there made little sense and certainly didn't come from me.

Mexicans are ruining the country? I know I never said that.

The Government issue is true and much more complicated than the idiotic statement that their on our backs and don;t want to hear me order a pizza ... :doh:

None of which is relevant to this thread.

Anything else you want to get wrong ?

Or can we get back to focusing on everything Obama is so great about. :dunno:

[Arben]

Yeah, ok buddy. Keep telling yourself that.

You've been doing nothing but fear mongering while promoting Ron Paul.

Meanwhile, Ron Paul is someone who gets support from white supremacists, has no knowledge of foreign nations, has no healthcare plan, and has never actually answered how he plans to implement any of his ideas.

NOT TO MENTION the fact that he was in on shennanigans and political maneuvering in West Virginia which made votes not count! Meanwhile, his stupid supporters (like you), cry foul when votes aren't counted right. How ironic.



To top it all off, Ron Paul probably won't win the OTHER race that he is in....for his congressional seat!

And you want this guy to lead our nation? Pathetic.

[Rabid Kimba]

Here Petre, my gift to you...

http://officespam.chattablogs.com/archives/Ron-Paul-Jedi-of-Republic-thumb.jpg

:lol:

[PetreTG]

:clap:

[PetreTG]

Yeah, ok buddy. Keep telling yourself that.

You've been doing nothing but fear mongering while promoting Ron Paul.

Meanwhile, Ron Paul is someone who gets support from white supremacists, has no knowledge of foreign nations, has no healthcare plan, and has never actually answered how he plans to implement any of his ideas.

NOT TO MENTION the fact that he was in on shennanigans and political maneuvering in West Virginia which made votes not count! Meanwhile, his stupid supporters (like you), cry foul when votes aren't counted right. How ironic.



To top it all off, Ron Paul probably won't win the OTHER race that he is in....for his congressional seat!

And you want this guy to lead our nation? Pathetic.

I'm not telling myself that ... I told you. I don't get confused like you do ... sorry.

As for your other claims on Paul ... In an Obama thread , since you can't stick to the subject at hand ...

Once again ... if the biggest dirt you have on Paul are these lame claims ... the man is a SAINT compared to the others!

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2gKXyBgr24c&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2gKXyBgr24c&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

As for the seat you think he won't win .... you mean the one he's had for 10years running that he also had 30 years ago ?

Great points Arben ... :clap:

Now ... how bout we get back to how great Obama is ? Shall we ?

[atomicdOGg34]

you guys are missing the point, getting caught up in the classic liberal "what you dont wanna help STARVING people?"

gimme a break, sure, itd be nice to give money to charity, but that should be my choice if i want to or not

the point is that a tax of that would be an infringement of my property, plus on top of that, its not even going to our govt its going to the UN

[PetreTG]

you guys are missing the point, getting caught up in the classic liberal "what you dont wanna help STARVING people?"

gimme a break, sure, itd be nice to give money to charity, but that should be my choice if i want to or not

the point is that a tax of that would be an infringement of my property, plus on top of that, its not even going to our govt its going to the UN


:bears: Somebody that gets it !!! :bears:

I knew I could count on you ADogg! :cheer:

[Arben]

So Obama actually has ideas when it comes to diplomacy, while Paul has nothing.


And Petre, don't give me that shit about straying off the topic. Coming from the person who spews his agenda in every topic he touches, you shouldn't be talking.

Paul is all bark and no bite. And the seat that he has sat in for ten years...he's losing that race too.

EDIT: And his voters voices literally don't count because he gives them away.

[Explosivo]

Yeah, ok buddy. Keep telling yourself that.

You've been doing nothing but fear mongering while promoting Ron Paul.

Meanwhile, Ron Paul is someone who gets support from white supremacists, has no knowledge of foreign nations, has no healthcare plan, and has never actually answered how he plans to implement any of his ideas.

NOT TO MENTION the fact that he was in on shennanigans and political maneuvering in West Virginia which made votes not count! Meanwhile, his stupid supporters (like you), cry foul when votes aren't counted right. How ironic.



To top it all off, Ron Paul probably won't win the OTHER race that he is in....for his congressional seat!

And you want this guy to lead our nation? Pathetic.

Hey man, wake up.

This country has been spiralling economically for years now,....and people like Petre have been warning what was coming. People like you scoffed. Here we are, at one of the lowest points in the history of this nation...with no end clearly in sight, ..

And you keep calling it "fear mongering".

Dumbass.

[slystaff]

PetreTG,

Ron Paul has negligible support and Obama's going to be president, live with it!! :cool:

[atomicdOGg34]

PetreTG,

Ron Paul has negligible support and Obama's going to be president, live with it!! :cool:

brilliant answer

[slystaff]

brilliant answerHow old are you?

I don't mean that question in an insulting way by the way, I'm just curious. You seem to have all of these strong views on Conservatism vs Liberalsim etc...as if you have alot of experience. I thought you were only 20 years old or something..

[Rock on]

Americans are disillusioned with the card democracy has been playing them.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
What <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>America</st1:place></st1:country-region> needs is a good dose of old fashioned dictatorship to put things in order.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
A coup de tat led a by a charismatic General or group of middle ranking officers can’t come sooner for the US of A.<o:p></o:p>

[atomicdOGg34]

How old are you?

I don't mean that question in an insulting way by the way, I'm just curious. You seem to have all of these strong views on Conservatism vs Liberalsim etc...as if you have alot of experience. I thought you were only 20 years old or something..

25

arent you some 26 year old queer british liberal?

[Ropadope]

your criticism is that he wants to give more foreign aid? so you guys can cut back on your widescreen tvs and designer clothes, and someone can get some rice?

I rarely watch tv, and I shop for bargains. I'm not a very extravagant person because I don't see a reason to be so. That being said, I could care less about the starving people of the world. I do my part in fighting hunger by feeding the stray cats of the neighborhood.

Seriously, we spend tons of money to keep half of the world alive just to live in misery and poverty. What's the purpose? Why give them food and medicine when they really need birth control, or to be left alone?

I really believe that people should be left to live as they wish. I believe that peoples' lands and resources are their own, and should be left alone or honestly traded for. That's about as far as my concern for the poor of the world goes.

[jaws1216]

25

arent you some 26 year old queer british liberal?

hey now, lets not lump in liberal with equine 26 year old british queer:nono:

:lol:

[r o o s t e r]

you guys are missing the point, getting caught up in the classic liberal "what you dont wanna help STARVING people?"

gimme a break, sure, itd be nice to give money to charity, but that should be my choice if i want to or not

the point is that a tax of that would be an infringement of my property, plus on top of that, its not even going to our govt its going to the UN

the thing that stops person A from giving more to charity is that person B conspicuously consumes a bigger house, bigger car, expensive clothes, expensive food, ... and person A feels he needs that shit too. status anxiety/affluenza/keeping up with the joneses.

yes, everybody wants to give to charity, and this will make people feel better about it, not worse.

[r o o s t e r]

I really believe that people should be left to live as they wish. I believe that peoples' lands and resources are their own, and should be left alone or honestly traded for. That's about as far as my concern for the poor of the world goes.

your and my material comfort is built on (1) historical oppression (slavery and colonialism) and (2) current oppression. we haven't "left them to live as they wish".

[r o o s t e r]

Seriously, we spend tons of money to keep half of the world alive just to live in misery and poverty. What's the purpose? Why give them food and medicine when they really need birth control, or to be left alone?

rope...

there are charities promoting birth control and birth control education. you can give to them too if you wish.

but birth control isn't going to solve the whole problem.

no, we don't just "keep them alive in misery and poverty". aid changes disease/death/misery to satisfaction. there is a clear, discrete line, between inadequate wellbeing and good wellbeing, and aid can make that difference.

[dsimon3387]

rope...

there are charities promoting birth control and birth control education. you can give to them too if you wish.

but birth control isn't going to solve the whole problem.

no, we don't just "keep them alive in misery and poverty". aid changes disease/death/misery to satisfaction. there is a clear, discrete line, between inadequate wellbeing and good wellbeing, and aid can make that difference.

dsimon writes:

Education cures all ills. Simple as that. With education comes a lower birth rate, a higher standard of living, self sufficiency and an improved social order. Only money, charity can bring eduction to people who do not know any better. And people are smart enough to value education in this respect.

The poorest, most ignorant people will make tremendous sacrifices to send their kids to school if it is provided. Those kids then have a future and even the dumbest people on earth (whoever that may be) know that education is the future in this regard.

What people like the Rope don't get is that keeping people in poverty and ignorance is not only cruel, but it ultimately effects everybody. Pakistan's proplems are our problems. Uneducated people without a future will destroy this world. Instead of isolating our country and fighting immigration wars we should be going into the poor countries and providing infrastructure so they can help themselves. Put schools in Pakistan and Palistine and you would stop terrorism dead in its tracks. Make those people self sufficient and they no longer have a need to be suicide bombers and religious zealots

[phonetap]

damn petre has exposed obama...:laughing:

[PetreTG]

:nono: Not an expose' Tap ... we're here to talk about all the great things Obama is going to do.

Feel free to post all his great ideas! :bears:

Why should we vote for him ... it has to be more than

Change .
He's Black.
He's not Hillary.
He's a great motivational speaker.
He wants us all to party like a BaRock Star.

BRING THE GREAT STUFF ... being from his neck of the woods , no one I know can think of anything he's done or that he really stands for. But he's fun to listen to!

So far we know he wants to help other countries by making us subservient to the UN and obligated to pay MORE taxes than we already do to what is currently a foreign power.

[phonetap]

:nono: Not an expose' Tap ... we're here to talk about all the great things Obama is going to do.

Feel free to post all his great ideas! :bears:

Why should we vote for him ... it has to be more than

Change .
He's Black.
He's not Hillary.
He's a great motivational speaker.
He wants us all to party like a BaRock Star.

BRING THE GREAT STUFF ... being from his neck of the woods , no one I know can think of anything he's done or that he really stands for. But he's fun to listen to!

So far we know he wants to help other countries by making us subservient to the UN and obligated to pay MORE taxes than we already do.

phonetap would never tell people why they should vote for anyone...it's the candidates job to sell themselves and their ideas. all phonetap can explain is why he supports a particular candidate.

if you really want to learn obama's position you have the point and click usage of a mouse to go directly to his personal website where his stances on issues are spelled out.

you typically spend an inordinate amount of time plowing through the internet to find articles that support your positions yet have to ask asinine questions suggesting you have no idea what the barack obama stands for? with all due respect..."who are you fucking kidding?"

[PetreTG]

So Obama actually has ideas when it comes to diplomacy, while Paul has nothing.


And Petre, don't give me that shit about straying off the topic. Coming from the person who spews his agenda in every topic he touches, you shouldn't be talking.

Paul is all bark and no bite. And the seat that he has sat in for ten years...he's losing that race too.

EDIT: And his voters voices literally don't count because he gives them away.

All bark and no bite ?

You mean the guy that was the only one with the balls when asked on national TV what we should do in Iraq as all the talking heads said the same answer ... that WE FUCKED UP ... Time to come home ?

The guy who has the most consistent voting record in congress ?

The guy labeled Dr No because he will not raise any taxes ?

The guy that votes against making tax payers pay for honors to Reagan or Rosa Parks but offers his own money ?

The guy with one of the highest CATO institute economic policy ratings?

The guy McCain labeled "the most honest man in politics" ?

Arben ... seriously .... Paul has something that takes more than a 30 second sound bite to explain. I'm sorry you never saw it. We were looking at the best chance America had at getting back on track under our current circumstances ... a few years from now ,you'll see I was right.

[PetreTG]

phonetap would never tell people why they should vote for anyone...it's the candidates job to sell themselves and their ideas. all phonetap can explain is why he supports a particular candidate.

if you really want to learn obama's position you have the point and click usage of a mouse to go directly to his personal website where his stances on issues are spelled out.

you typically spend an inordinate amount of time plowing through the internet to find articles that support your positions yet have to ask asinine questions suggesting you have no idea what the barack obama stands for? with all due respect..."who are you fucking kidding?"
Oh ... I know what he stands for. A lot of talk, a bit of flip flopping, throw in some double standards and crazy ideas , more taxes , attack the Second Amendment, a national healthcare program doomed to fuck up the medical system in this country even more, no solution whatsoever to our growing national economic crisis, Global warming and now ... a tax to a foreign entity on top of our already ridiculously high taxes on everything making a big giant step towards world government and you have The Obamanation . :clap:

Have I missed anything ?

You know what's really funny .... Is if Obama inherits this mess and makes his grand changes .... they're going to pin the coming disaster on a BLACK MAN :laughing:

[slystaff]

phonetap would never tell people why they should vote for anyone...it's the candidates job to sell themselves and their ideas. all phonetap can explain is why he supports a particular candidate.

if you really want to learn obama's position you have the point and click usage of a mouse to go directly to his personal website where his stances on issues are spelled out.

you typically spend an inordinate amount of time plowing through the internet to find articles that support your positions yet have to ask asinine questions suggesting you have no idea what the barack obama stands for? with all due respect..."who are you fucking kidding?"

Yes we can my brother! :cool:

[dsimon3387]

dsimon writes:

Don't begrudge Petre.:nono: Frankly though you hit one nail on the head. Whoever inherits this mess will be doomed. At this point I would vote one of three ways:

1) Paul if he had a chance to win

2) Obamma in the primary to beat Hillary

3) Mccaine in the election so the repubs have to clean up the mess they started.

[PetreTG]

I don't begrudge Ds ... frankly , I'm disappointed once again with our choices.

Once again , we will have be given candidates that I personally cannot support.

I won't support McCain ... he's a crooked nut.

I won't support Hillary for obvious reasons , the least of which is that she's a woman.

I won't support Obama because he's a phoney that will do nothing good for this country. I won't be lured by the prospect of electing a "black" man and I'm not fooled by a motivational speaker spouting change that is all talk and no substance.

When I look at what his Ideals actually are .... they're garbage that is often counterproductive.

I've thrown down the gauntlet and given the Obamanation supporters a chance to show why Obama is so great ... they can't ... because the fact is , he's not.

I laid down all kinds of ammo for them about Ron Paul to discuss ... and in the end .... MOST of this forum realized he actually was the best candidate. :clap:

I defy anyone to do that for Obama .... let's dissect him and his policies like we did Paul. :cool:

[Nobleart]

I won't support Obama because he's a phoney that will do nothing good for this country. I won't be lured by the prospect of electing a "black" man and I'm not fooled by a motivational speaker spouting change that is all talk and no substance.

When I look at what his Ideals actually are .... they're garbage that is often counterproductive.

I've thrown down the gauntlet and given the Obamanation supporters a chance to show why Obama is so great ... they can't ... because the fact is , he's not.

I laid down all kinds of ammo for them about Ron Paul to discuss ... and in the end .... MOST of this forum realized he actually was the best candidate. :clap:

I defy anyone to do that for Obama .... let's dissect him and his policies like we did Paul. :cool:



Obama doesn't have a lot of policies to dissect because he's not a 70 year-old lifetime politician. That doesn't mean he won't be a good candidate for president.

When JFK got elected he didn't have big record to run on either but he was charismatic and got people to listen to him. Hell, he became so popular they even had a big parade for him in Texas. :clap:

Granted, that didn't go so well for him but we can't be afraid of every grassy knoll we see. :nono:

[PetreTG]

I see I'm going to have to help people out here ....

Let's start with this gem ... when Obama doesn't have a prepared speech , what is his answers to the current real estate crisis ?

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uf-l7i-uhGM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uf-l7i-uhGM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

I cannot tell you on how many levels this is fucked :lol:

Let's see if anyone can spot the problems this bullshit creates , does nothing to solve(but sounds good) or actually makes worse....

[godking]

I don't begrudge Ds ... frankly , I'm disappointed once again with our choices.

Once again , we will have be given candidates that I personally cannot support.

I won't support McCain ... he's a crooked nut.

I won't support Hillary for obvious reasons , the least of which is that she's a woman.

I won't support Obama because he's a phoney that will do nothing good for this country. I won't be lured by the prospect of electing a "black" man and I'm not fooled by a motivational speaker spouting change that is all talk and no substance.

When I look at what his Ideals actually are .... they're garbage that is often counterproductive.

I've thrown down the gauntlet and given the Obamanation supporters a chance to show why Obama is so great ... they can't ... because the fact is , he's not.

I laid down all kinds of ammo for them about Ron Paul to discuss ... and in the end .... MOST of this forum realized he actually was the best candidate. :clap:

I defy anyone to do that for Obama .... let's dissect him and his policies like we did Paul. :cool:Ron Paul wants us to leave the WTO a move that would guarantee to bankrupt the country.

I am sure that an economically astute guy like yourself can see the folly of leaving the WTO.

[PetreTG]

Ron Paul wants us to leave the WTO a move that would guarantee to bankrupt the country.

I am sure that an economically astute guy like yourself can see the folly of leaving the WTO.
Many MANY very highly respected econimists want the USA out of the WTO for reasons that have nothing to do with trade.

Anyone that thinks for a moment that we will be worse off , or that the world would not trade with the USA if we were not in the WTO is fooling themselve.

The WTO puts restrictions on the USA's trade that is helping to drive down our economy , not help it.

Hell we could dedicate a thread to that topic ... but NOT in the OBAMANATION thread.

[slystaff]

I don't begrudge Ds ... frankly , I'm disappointed once again with our choices.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Once again , we will have be given candidates that I personally cannot support.<o:p></o:p>
I won't support McCain ... he's a crooked nut.<o:p></o:p>
I won't support Hillary for obvious reasons , the least of which is that she's a woman.<o:p></o:p>
I won't support Obama because he's a phoney that will do nothing good for this country. I won't be lured by the prospect of electing a "black" man and I'm not fooled by a motivational speaker spouting change that is all talk and no substance.<o:p></o:p>
When I look at what his Ideals actually are .... they're garbage that is often counterproductive.<o:p></o:p>
I've thrown down the gauntlet and given the Obamanation supporters a chance to show why Obama is so great ... they can't ... because the fact is , he's not.<o:p></o:p>
I laid down all kinds of ammo for them about Ron Paul to discuss ... and in the end .... MOST of this forum realized he actually was the best candidate. <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 215.25pt; HEIGHT: 1in" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href="images/smilies/clap.gif" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\STAFFO~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\cli p_image001.wmz"></v:imagedata></v:shape><o:p></o:p>
I defy anyone to do that for Obama .... let's dissect him and his policies like we did Paul. <v:shape id=_x0000_i1026 style="WIDTH: 215.25pt; HEIGHT: 1in" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href="images/smilies/cool.gif" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\STAFFO~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\cli p_image002.wmz"></v:imagedata></v:shape><o:p></o:p>
Hillary being a woman is the overriding reason for me why I wouldn't have voted for her if I was an American.
<o:p></o:p>
You simple can't have a woman being the head of the world's most prominent nation.

Also, although I'm a huge Bill Clinton fan, two things:<o:p></o:p>
1. Hillary IS NOT BILL<o:p></o:p>
2. Bill shouldn't be allowed back into the white house after the Monica Lewinsky debacle, in principle if nothing else.
<o:p></o:p>
I'd be lying if Obama's ethnicity didn't have something to do with the reason why I'm suporting him, BUT, it's not his ethnicity per se.<o:p></o:p>
I wouldn't have supported an Al Sharpton or even Jesse Jackson necessarily. It's not about being black (or half black) in isolation.
<o:p></o:p>
Obama doesn't play the race card, seeks to represent all races, creeds and political leanings. Is someone America can be proud of, is by FAR the best orator or all the candidates to have attempted to run this year, by far the most likable (honorary mention to mcCain), by far the most inspiring, seems the most genuine.
<o:p></o:p>
So what if he's only 46 years old? Bill Clinton was younger if my memory serves me correctly.
<o:p></o:p>
So what if he's not as "experienced" as McCain? Bill Clinton was NO WHERE NEAR as experienced as Incumbent George HW Bush, who was not only President, but was vice president for 8 years prior to that as well as being the director of the CIA before even that. Very few will say that Bush was a better president than Clinton.
<o:p></o:p>
To all the republicans who think that McCain's supposed NS experience prepares him better than anyone else to defend america:<o:p></o:p>
NONSENSE!!
<o:p></o:p>
Every right wing american claims that the present Bush, with all his failings, has kept America safe (laughable). Well if that's the case..and he was able to do that..WHAT NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERIENCE did Dubya have before taking office?

Obama, like anyone else will surround himself with top advisors on matters of National Security or anything else and will be as capable of defending the US if and when a threat arises.
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
It’s a myth that Obama is only words and no substance. His track record has proved that he works for change. Also he’s detailed his policy stances on his website and time and time again in debates.
<o:p></o:p>
As for Obama's policies:
<o:p></o:p>
Almost universal health care is the best proposition so far when contrasted with the two extremes of Hillary's proposal (which would never be supported) and McCain's (which is the current US mess).
<o:p></o:p>
Pulling out of Iraq...is the only option...as it is a war that was based on lies from the start.
<o:p></o:p>
Economy...it's a wash.
<o:p></o:p>
Immigration etc...not as important.
<o:p></o:p>
So it comes down to personality, inspiration and POTENTIAL. Obama has the edge on EVERYONE ELSE including the great Ron Paul.
<o:p></o:p>
YES WE CAN my brothers!! :cool: <o:p></o:p>

[PetreTG]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p>
Hillary being a woman is the overriding reason for me why I wouldn't have voted for her if I was an American.
<o:p></o:p>
You simple can't have a woman being the head of the world's most prominent nation.

Also, although I'm a huge Bill Clinton fan, two things:<o:p></o:p>
1. Hillary IS NOT BILL<o:p></o:p>
2. Bill shouldn't be allowed back into the white house after the Monica Lewinsky debacle, in principle if nothing else.
<o:p></o:p>
I'd be lying if Obama's ethnicity didn't have something to do with the reason why I'm suporting him, BUT, it's not his ethnicity per se.<o:p></o:p>
I wouldn't have supported an Al Sharpton or even Jesse Jackson necessarily. It's not about being black (or half black) in isolation.
<o:p></o:p>
Obama doesn't play the race card, seeks to represent all races, creeds and political leanings. Is someone America can be proud of, is by FAR the best orator or all the candidates to have attempted to run this year, by far the most likable (honorary mention to mcCain), by far the most inspiring, seems the most genuine.
<o:p></o:p>
So what if he's only 46 years old? Bill Clinton was younger if my memory serves me correctly.
<o:p></o:p>
So what if he's not as "experienced" as McCain? Bill Clinton was NO WHERE NEAR as experienced as Incumbent George HW Bush, who was not only President, but was vice president for 8 years prior to that as well as being the director of the CIA before even that. Very few will say that Bush was a better president than Clinton.
<o:p></o:p>
To all the republicans who think that McCain's supposed NS experience prepares him better than anyone else to defend america:<o:p></o:p>
NONSENSE!!
<o:p></o:p>
Every right wing american claims that the present Bush, with all his failings, has kept America safe (laughable). Well if that's the case..and he was able to do that..WHAT NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERIENCE did Dubya have before taking office?

Obama, like anyone else will surround himself with top advisors on matters of National Security or anything else and will be as capable of defending the US if and when a threat arises.
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
It’s a myth that Obama is only words and no substance. His track record has proved that he works for change. Also he’s detailed his policy stances on his website and time and time again in debates.
<o:p></o:p>
As for Obama's policies:
<o:p></o:p>
Almost universal health care is the best proposition so far when contrasted with the two extremes of Hillary's proposal (which would never be supported) and McCain's (which is the current US mess).
<o:p></o:p>
Pulling out of Iraq...is the only option...as it is a war that was based on lies from the start.
<o:p></o:p>
Economy...it's a wash.
<o:p></o:p>
Immigration etc...not as important.
<o:p></o:p>
So it comes down to personality, inspiration and POTENTIAL. Obama has the edge on EVERYONE ELSE including the great Ron Paul.
<o:p></o:p>
YES WE CAN my brothers!! :cool: <o:p></o:p>

This is a good start Sly ... You get an A for Ammo .... I mean effort :lol: ... I'll address this later today ... Unfortunately I have to go somewhere right now.

:bears:

[Arben]

History has proven that the less experienced leaders have actually turned out to be very good leaders, and mostly better.

[atomicdOGg34]

the thing that stops person A from giving more to charity is that person B conspicuously consumes a bigger house, bigger car, expensive clothes, expensive food, ... and person A feels he needs that shit too. status anxiety/affluenza/keeping up with the joneses.

yes, everybody wants to give to charity, and this will make people feel better about it, not worse.

doesnt make me feel better

and why shoould we give all this money to all these other people when people HERE are starving, homeless, our economy is gonna be in a recession

could be well better spent, it is OUR money after all

[Orthodox Crusader]

History has proven that the less experienced leaders have actually turned out to be very good leaders, and mostly better.

:old:

[slystaff]

Romney Endorses McCain.

I guess he's pissed at Huckabee, and rightly so, for destroying his chances of beating McCain by staying in the race...splitting the conservative vote, when it was obvious that he was not going to win.

[atomicdOGg34]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p>
Hillary being a woman is the overriding reason for me why I wouldn't have voted for her if I was an American.
<o:p></o:p>
You simple can't have a woman being the head of the world's most prominent nation.

Also, although I'm a huge Bill Clinton fan, two things:<o:p></o:p>
1. Hillary IS NOT BILL<o:p></o:p>
2. Bill shouldn't be allowed back into the white house after the Monica Lewinsky debacle, in principle if nothing else.
<o:p></o:p>
I'd be lying if Obama's ethnicity didn't have something to do with the reason why I'm suporting him, BUT, it's not his ethnicity per se.<o:p></o:p>
I wouldn't have supported an Al Sharpton or even Jesse Jackson necessarily. It's not about being black (or half black) in isolation.
<o:p></o:p>
Obama doesn't play the race card, seeks to represent all races, creeds and political leanings. Is someone America can be proud of, is by FAR the best orator or all the candidates to have attempted to run this year, by far the most likable (honorary mention to mcCain), by far the most inspiring, seems the most genuine.
<o:p></o:p>
So what if he's only 46 years old? Bill Clinton was younger if my memory serves me correctly.
<o:p></o:p>
So what if he's not as "experienced" as McCain? Bill Clinton was NO WHERE NEAR as experienced as Incumbent George HW Bush, who was not only President, but was vice president for 8 years prior to that as well as being the director of the CIA before even that. Very few will say that Bush was a better president than Clinton.
<o:p></o:p>
To all the republicans who think that McCain's supposed NS experience prepares him better than anyone else to defend america:<o:p></o:p>
NONSENSE!!
<o:p></o:p>
Every right wing american claims that the present Bush, with all his failings, has kept America safe (laughable). Well if that's the case..and he was able to do that..WHAT NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERIENCE did Dubya have before taking office?

Obama, like anyone else will surround himself with top advisors on matters of National Security or anything else and will be as capable of defending the US if and when a threat arises.
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
It’s a myth that Obama is only words and no substance. His track record has proved that he works for change. Also he’s detailed his policy stances on his website and time and time again in debates.
<o:p></o:p>
As for Obama's policies:
<o:p></o:p>
Almost universal health care is the best proposition so far when contrasted with the two extremes of Hillary's proposal (which would never be supported) and McCain's (which is the current US mess).
<o:p></o:p>
Pulling out of Iraq...is the only option...as it is a war that was based on lies from the start.
<o:p></o:p>
Economy...it's a wash.
<o:p></o:p>
Immigration etc...not as important.
<o:p></o:p>
So it comes down to personality, inspiration and POTENTIAL. Obama has the edge on EVERYONE ELSE including the great Ron Paul.
<o:p></o:p>
YES WE CAN my brothers!! :cool: <o:p></o:p>

any repubs idea is better than any universal healthcare, free market solutions baby

id like to hear 1 single idea he has about iraq, how is he gonna pull them out, how fast, he has never put up a specific out date because he doesnt have one and you damn well know troops will be there no matter the president, except ron paul, plus hes the only guy who has a real reason as to why we shouldnt have gone, its an undeclared war, its unconstitutional

immigration is HUGE, maybe not for you cause you dont live here, but if you do its huge, obama wants to make them all citizens, give them liscenses, give them all a free ride on everything and encourage more to come, brilliant

economy? obama has no clue, economy in a downturn?? heres a great idea lets give tons of money to people half way around the world, that we'll likely borrow from china, nice, real nice, obama has no clue other than liberal class warfare, we'll see how long that lasts

obama also has the potential to be the biggest fuck up in US political history

[TFK]

phonetap would never tell people why they should vote for anyone...it's the candidates job to sell themselves and their ideas. all phonetap can explain is why he supports a particular candidate.

if you really want to learn obama's position you have the point and click usage of a mouse to go directly to his personal website where his stances on issues are spelled out.

you typically spend an inordinate amount of time plowing through the internet to find articles that support your positions yet have to ask asinine questions suggesting you have no idea what the barack obama stands for? with all due respect..."who are you fucking kidding?"


Holy crap, what a 'non-answer'.

Let me translate.

"I don't know anything about Obama's policies, I'm voting for him because he's black. Now how do I register to vote?"


TFK

[atomicdOGg34]

Romney Endorses McCain.

I guess he's pissed at Huckabee, and rightly so, for destroying his chances of beating McCain by staying in the race...splitting the conservative vote, when it was obvious that he was not going to win.

pretty sad if true, you got a link?

romney must been real mad at huckabee, he def didnt like mccain

[slystaff]

pretty sad if true, you got a link?

romney must been real mad at huckabee, he def didnt like mccain

He'll be announcing it in about an hour. Check CNN.com/politics

[atomicdOGg34]

He'll be announcing it in about an hour. Check CNN.com/politics

why are you so into american politics, you live in britain right?

im just curious

[atomicdOGg34]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/14/romney.mccain/index.html

[TFK]

It’s a myth that Obama is only words and no substance. His track record has proved that he works for change. Also he’s detailed his policy stances on his website and time and time again in debates.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
As for Obama's policies:
<o:p></o:p>
Almost universal health care is the best proposition so far when contrasted with the two extremes of Hillary's proposal (which would never be supported) and McCain's (which is the current US mess).
<o:p></o:p>
Universal Healthcare will bankrupt this country. In theory, it's a great idea. But in practice, it will be disaster. Reason enough not to vote for Obama.


Pulling out of Iraq...is the only option...as it is a war that was based on lies from the start.


Obama, if elected, will not pull us out of Iraq. Neither will Clinton. You should know better.


Economy...it's a wash.

Obama's policy is the ecomony is a wash?

<o:p></o:p>

Immigration etc...not as important.

Immigration is not important? Gimme a break. Illegal immigrants are a huge reason why this country is in the fiscal toilet it is. I've seen articles stating that amnesty for illegal immigrants could cost this country upwards of 3 Trillion dollars.

Not important? You shouldn't even be allowed to post in this thread if you're that niave.

<o:p></o:p>

So it comes down to personality, inspiration and POTENTIAL. Obama has the edge on EVERYONE ELSE including the great Ron Paul

I'd rather have a President who gets things done and has the personality of a pile of dirty laundry, then someone like Obama, who will set this country back so far, we'll be begging for another Bush.

And what exactly has Obama inspired you to do? Other then to show your ignorance toward American politics? And potential? I agree, Obama has potential. The potential to send this country straight down the shitter.

TFK

[slystaff]

any repubs idea is better than any universal healthcare, free market solutions baby

id like to hear 1 single idea he has about iraq, how is he gonna pull them out, how fast, he has never put up a specific out date because he doesnt have one and you damn well know troops will be there no matter the president, except ron paul, plus hes the only guy who has a real reason as to why we shouldnt have gone, its an undeclared war, its unconstitutional

immigration is HUGE, maybe not for you cause you dont live here, but if you do its huge, obama wants to make them all citizens, give them liscenses, give them all a free ride on everything and encourage more to come, brilliant

economy? obama has no clue, economy in a downturn?? heres a great idea lets give tons of money to people half way around the world, that we'll likely borrow from china, nice, real nice, obama has no clue other than liberal class warfare, we'll see how long that lasts

obama also has the potential to be the biggest fuck up in US political history

"any repubs idea is better than any universal healthcare, free market solutions baby"

nonsense. Healthcare is the most important thing to a human being. People shouldn't be going bankrupt because they were sick and or needed major surgery. US needs to get with the rest of the world on this issue.

Are you worried about the cost? If so why are you backing this ridiculous unconsitutional war in Iraq, based upon false premises which is costing trillions of dollars...money that can be used to give US citizens adequate and affordable healthcare.

Health care encapsulates the reasons WHY the goverment has money in the first place. It is among the most important of human rights.

Obama will work out a plan to pull the troops out. He has the desire and the conviction....therefore between him and his advisors they'll come up with a good plan.

by the way, the fact that it's unconsitutional isn't the only good reason why the war shouldn't have happened:

IRAQ WAS NOT A THREAT (no more than anyone else)....there were no WMDs and the moment they found that out they should have left. Billions of dollars to "free" a people that didn't ask for US help. Republicans need to be kicked out of power for at least EIGHT YEARS for that atrocity alone.

Scared about Obama's handling of the economy? :lol: That's laughable. After the last seven years, Republicans (espcially young inexperienced yet idealistic) ones such as yourself are in NO POSITION to argue fiscal responsiblity with anyone!! :nono:

[slystaff]

why are you so into american politics, you live in britain right?

im just curious

America is the world's most prominent nation. EVERYONE is interested in American politics.

[TFK]

Obama will work out a plan to pull the troops out.


Uhh...No, he won't.

TFK

[atomicdOGg34]

"any repubs idea is better than any universal healthcare, free market solutions baby"

nonsense. Healthcare is the most important thing to a human being. People shouldn't be going bankrupt because they were sick and or needed major surgery. US needs to get with the rest of the world on this issue.

Are you worried about the cost? If so why are you backing this ridiculous unconsitutional war in Iraq, based upon false premises which is costing trillions of dollars...money that can be used to give US citizens adequate and affordable healthcare.

Health care encapsulates the reasons WHY the goverment has money in the first place. It is among the most import human rights.

Obama will work out a plan to pull the troops out. He has the desire and the conviction....therefore between him and his advisors they'll come up with a good plan.

by the way, the fact that it's unconsitutional isn't the only good reason why the war shouldn't have happened:

IRAQ WAS NOT A THREAT (no more than anyone else)....there were no WMDs and the moment they found that out they should have left. Billions of dollars to "free" a people that didn't ask for US help. Republicans need to be kicked out of power for at least EIGHT YEARS for that atrocity alone.

Scared about Obama's handling of the economy? :lol: That's laughable. After the last seven years Republicans (espcially young inexperienced yet idealistic) ones such as yourself are in NO POSITION to argue fiscal responsiblity with anyone!! :nono:

since WHEN is health care a "right" ive never heard of that in my life, and it sure as hell isnt listed in the constitution, and since when do people have the ability to have this "right" taken care of by TAKING other peoples property and infringing on their rights? itd absurd

you really wanna fix the healthcare system?? fix the economic system, treat the disease not the symptoms

pfft, that money if we do get pulled out should go back to the people in the form of a tax cut or something, give the people back their money, but no instead hell give it to some foreign country or to people who dont even pay taxes, its bullshit

obama votes against going to war and then votes to fund it, he even removed a speech of his from his website then put it back up, it was down the whole time he was voting to fund the war, we had a demo controlled congress and they didnt do shit

brilliant answer on economy, still doesnt answer how obama is gonna afford all this and how it will actually help anything

[r o o s t e r]

since WHEN is health care a "right" ive never heard of that in my life,

pretty standard assumption in western europe and (it seems) canada.

[atomicdOGg34]

pretty standard assumption in western europe and (it seems) canada.

i dont see how you can justify it by taking others peoples money, infringing on the most basic of rights

[Arben]

Yet the american public actually SAVES money (sometimes over 50%) and gets better healthcare and this is some how wasting money on the unworthy.

And last I checked, we had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[atomicdOGg34]

Yet the american public actually SAVES money (sometimes over 50%) and gets better healthcare and this is some how wasting money on the unworthy.

And last I checked, we had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

you were born werent you? your alive arent you?

you have those rights as individuals, the govt needs to make sure you have the ability to have those rights and not have them infringed on, not to give them to you, the govt doesnt give us anything, only take away liberties, the govt SHOULD be absolutely neutral, shouldnt favor anyone or anything over another, its here to make sure our liberties are protected, not give us anything or take stuff away from people in order to give it to others, thats an egalitarian socialist society imo

you have the right to it, in a sense that no one can deny you it, but not a right in the sense that it should be given to you, especially at anothers expense

[slystaff]

i dont see how you can justify it by taking others peoples money, infringing on the most basic of rights

Youngblood,

How many times have you heard people say something to the effect of "things are shitty, have no money, but...AT LEAST I HAVE MY HEALTH"?

Obviously health is the most important thing to every human. All the money in the world means nothing if your health is terrible.

Universal Healthcare is something that should be a priority for the government...

[Orthodox Crusader]

Youngblood,

How many times have you heard people say something to the effect of "things are shitty, have no money, but...AT LEAST I HAVE MY HEALTH"?

Obviously health is the most important thing to every human. All the money in the world means nothing if your health is terrible.

Universal Healthcare is something that should be a priority for the government...


Universal Healthcare...FOR WHO??

Illegals???

Fuck that!

And Sly...in case you think I am biased...I say FUCK OUT THE ILLEGAL IRISH TOO.

[atomicdOGg34]

Youngblood,

How many times have you heard people say something to the effect of "things are shitty, have no money, but...AT LEAST I HAVE MY HEALTH"?

Obviously health is the most important thing to every human. All the money in the world means nothing if your health is terrible.

Universal Healthcare is something that should be a priority for the government...

what??

freedom and liberty is the most important thing, and your still not getting to the heart of the issue

the govt isnt authorized to give anyone anything, what it needs to do is fix the economic system so people can afford it, problem solved

and if you can afford it and dont got it? too bad, pay out of pocket, no free rides

[phonetap]

Holy crap, what a 'non-answer'.

Let me translate.

"I don't know anything about Obama's policies, I'm voting for him because he's black. Now how do I register to vote?"


TFK

typical TFK...always about race. :rolleyes:

[phonetap]

you were born werent you? your alive arent you?

you have those rights as individuals, the govt needs to make sure you have the ability to have those rights and not have them infringed on, not to give them to you, the govt doesnt give us anything, only take away liberties, the govt SHOULD be absolutely neutral, shouldnt favor anyone or anything over another, its here to make sure our liberties are protected, not give us anything or take stuff away from people in order to give it to others, thats an egalitarian socialist society imo

you have the right to it, in a sense that no one can deny you it, but not a right in the sense that it should be given to you, especially at anothers expense

what specific liberties are you talking about?

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

America is the world's most prominent nation. EVERYONE is interested in American politics.

:rolleyes: if it was Hillary vs McCain you wouldn't be sooo interested sly....

[atomicdOGg34]

what specific liberties are you talking about?

that are being infringed by giving them free shit??

oh i dont know, people are giving up money in tax dollars, doctors must give up time and resources, you can go on if you want

[Arben]

you were born werent you? your alive arent you?

you have those rights as individuals, the govt needs to make sure you have the ability to have those rights and not have them infringed on, not to give them to you, the govt doesnt give us anything, only take away liberties, the govt SHOULD be absolutely neutral, shouldnt favor anyone or anything over another, its here to make sure our liberties are protected, not give us anything or take stuff away from people in order to give it to others, thats an egalitarian socialist society imo

you have the right to it, in a sense that no one can deny you it, but not a right in the sense that it should be given to you, especially at anothers expense
What a cop out, man.:rolleyes:

[atomicdOGg34]

What a cop out, man.:rolleyes:

no the cop out is calling healthcare a "right" when it truly isnt

and how do you justify it?? please tell me

[LOK]

if they can pull off Universal health care.. it would rock.. I hope it happens!

[atomicdOGg34]

if they can pull off Universal health care.. it would rock.. I hope it happens!

thats the deal, you cant pull it off, not atleast in any way shape or form that helps, itll only hurt us and cost us billions, quality will go down, etc

treat the disease not the symptoms

[Octopus]

<o:p></o:p>
Universal Healthcare will bankrupt this country. In theory, it's a great idea. But in practice, it will be disaster. Reason enough not to vote for Obama.



Obama, if elected, will not pull us out of Iraq. Neither will Clinton. You should know better.



Obama's policy is the ecomony is a wash?

<o:p></o:p>


Immigration is not important? Gimme a break. Illegal immigrants are a huge reason why this country is in the fiscal toilet it is. I've seen articles stating that amnesty for illegal immigrants could cost this country upwards of 3 Trillion dollars.

Not important? You shouldn't even be allowed to post in this thread if you're that niave.

<o:p></o:p>


I'd rather have a President who gets things done and has the personality of a pile of dirty laundry, then someone like Obama, who will set this country back so far, we'll be begging for another Bush.

And what exactly has Obama inspired you to do? Other then to show your ignorance toward American politics? And potential? I agree, Obama has potential. The potential to send this country straight down the shitter.

TFK

TFK lays the smackdown on the naive Obamanama supporters:bears:

[dsimon3387]

I don't begrudge Ds ... frankly , I'm disappointed once again with our choices.

Once again , we will have be given candidates that I personally cannot support.

I won't support McCain ... he's a crooked nut.

I won't support Hillary for obvious reasons , the least of which is that she's a woman.

I won't support Obama because he's a phoney that will do nothing good for this country. I won't be lured by the prospect of electing a "black" man and I'm not fooled by a motivational speaker spouting change that is all talk and no substance.

When I look at what his Ideals actually are .... they're garbage that is often counterproductive.

I've thrown down the gauntlet and given the Obamanation supporters a chance to show why Obama is so great ... they can't ... because the fact is , he's not.

I laid down all kinds of ammo for them about Ron Paul to discuss ... and in the end .... MOST of this forum realized he actually was the best candidate. :clap:

I defy anyone to do that for Obama .... let's dissect him and his policies like we did Paul. :cool:


dsimon writes:

I think that Paul should keep building a consensus. With the internet the playing field will level more and more and if people keep pushing his message it might bear more fruit later on. In the meantime we have to all decide as Americans what we can do for our country. My thinking is that if people get another ignoramus Republican they will begin to see how awful these people are. Then a guy like Paul can get a real chance to get elected.

[Rock on]

Universal Healthcare...FOR WHO??

Illegals???

Fuck that!

And Sly...in case you think I am biased...I say FUCK OUT THE ILLEGAL IRISH TOO.

U can talk.

The Irish are one the biggest economic parasites *cough* *cough* immigrants of the 19 and 20th century.

That some mukus wanna even go to that place of all places, says a lot on how bad it must be for them.

[phonetap]

that are being infringed by giving them free shit??

oh i dont know, people are giving up money in tax dollars, doctors must give up time and resources, you can go on if you want

not about them...about you. what or which liberties are most important to you? just trying to understand your position.

[atomicdOGg34]

not about them...about you. what or which liberties are most important to you? just trying to understand your position.

the basic ones, you know, life liberty property, everything in the bill of rights, etc

i should be able to do as i please as long as i dont infringe on others

if you look at individuals, not groups/races etc, you cannot justify universal healthcare or any welfare/big govt program

[slystaff]

:rolleyes: if it was Hillary vs McCain you wouldn't be sooo interested sly....

Hey I followed both the 2000 and 2004 elections with just as much interest.

Why does it always have to be a "black thing" with you idiots! :doh:

[phonetap]

the basic ones, you know, life liberty property, everything in the bill of rights, etc

i should be able to do as i please as long as i dont infringe on others

if you look at individuals, not groups/races etc, you cannot justify universal healthcare or any welfare/big govt program

this is impossible. for example, do you think smokers should have the right to smoke anywhere they please?

[atomicdOGg34]

this is impossible. for example, do you think smokers should have the right to smoke anywhere they please?

bad example

id be infringing on someones right to clean air and such, but if i wanna smoke at home i should and i do

or you can make some sort of reasonable compromise, smokers sections away from main buildings etc

[puerto rock]

Uhh...No, he won't.

TFK

And what would you say if Obama pulled the troops out of Iraq??... Not bashing you or anything, I'm just curious as to what your feelings would be about that..

[atomicdOGg34]

And what would you say if Obama pulled the troops out of Iraq??... Not bashing you or anything, I'm just curious as to what your feelings would be about that..

well the point is, his statement that he will isnt even believeable, no specifics, no nothing

outside of that its a "what if" thing

what if grandma had balls?? shed be grandpa

[puerto rock]

I'm just speaking hypothetically... I'd just like to get the general feeling of how you guys would feel about a troop withdrawal from Iraq.

[atomicdOGg34]

I'm just speaking hypothetically... I'd just like to get the general feeling of how you guys would feel about a troop withdrawal from Iraq.

well that depends on how its done

so if you add more specifics about this hypothetical i can answer better

[puerto rock]

To put it flat out, if he basically ordered an end to direct US involment in the Iraq conflict, bringing the US troops home and basically helping the Iraqi troops by funding them and helping in other ways.

Something along those lines. Just a thought. What would you consider a good reason to withdraw out of Iraq?

[atomicdOGg34]

To put it flat out, if he basically ordered an end to direct US involment in the Iraq conflict, bringing the US troops home and basically helping the Iraqi troops by funding them and helping in other ways.

Something along those lines. Just a thought. What would you consider a good reason to withdraw out of Iraq?

well he has already stated that hed have based in the area so i dont see the point

would he listen to the military commanders on the exact details of withdrawl or just have a race to get out

[puerto rock]

That I cannot answer for sure. But if he just "raced to get out" like you said, do you think that would be a proper way of getting out??

[atomicdOGg34]

That I cannot answer for sure. But if he just "raced to get out" like you said, do you think that would be a proper way of getting out??

fuck no

jesus thatd be totally irresponsible

[puerto rock]

The only way it could end honorably is when Iraq gets some stability in their government. Looking at the situation the way it is, it looks difficult to just have a sudden withdrawal. The Iraqi government has to basically tell us that they're good to go on their own. Question is when will that happen.

[atomicdOGg34]

The only way it could end honorably is when Iraq gets some stability in their government. Looking at the situation the way it is, it looks difficult to just have a sudden withdrawal. The Iraqi government has to basically tell us that they're good to go on their own. Question is when will that happen.

well gotta make it safe 1st, that way people can go out without fear of getting blown up

you also gotta realize, look how long it takes for us to get anything done, and we've been doing this for almost 300 years, they're just learning

[TFK]

Looks like his bill passed....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20080213/pl_usnw/aim_says_media_cover_up_obama___s_socialist_orient ed_global_tax_bill



To: POLITICAL EDITORS

Contact: Sarah Schaerr Norton of Accuracy in Media, +1-202-364-4401 ext. 107, Sarah.Schaerr@aim.org


WASHINGTON, Feb. 13 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Accuracy in Media editor Cliff Kincaid disclosed today that a hugely expensive bill called the Global Poverty Act, sponsored by Democratic Senator Barack Obama, was quickly passed by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday and could result in the imposition of a global tax on the United States.
Kincaid said that the major medias cover-up of the bill, which makes levels of U.S. foreign aid spending subservient to the dictates of the United Nations, demonstrates the medias desire to see Senator Obama elected to the presidency.


In a column posted on the AIM web site, Kincaid noted that Senator Joe Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was trying to rush Obamas Global Poverty Act (S. 2433) through his committee without hearings. The legislation would commit the U.S. to spending 0.7 percent of gross national product on foreign aid, which amounts to a phenomenal 13-year total of $845 billion over and above what the U.S. already spends. It was scheduled for a Thursday vote but was moved up a day, to Wednesday, and rushed through by voice vote. Kincaid learned, however, that conservative Senators have now put a hold on the legislation, in order to prevent it from being rushed to the floor for a full Senate vote.


The House version (H.R. 1302) was suddenly brought up on the House floor last September 25 and was passed by voice vote. House Republicans were caught off-guard, unaware that the pro-U.N. measure committed the U.S. to spending hundreds of billions of dollars. Kincaids column notes that the official in charge of making nations comply with the U.N. Millennium Goals, which are prominently highlighted in the Obama bill, says a global tax will be necessary to force American taxpayers to provide the money.


Accuracy in Media is a citizens' media watchdog organization whose mission is to promote fairness, balance, and accuracy in news reporting. Founded in 1969, AIM is the oldest non-profit press watchdog group in America. For more information, please visit http://www.aim.org.



TFK

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

if Obama becomes president....6months-1year in 50% of the population would want his head made into a canoe..


Ortho Crusader might be right...on whatever he say about osama./.

[Orthodox Crusader]

if Obama becomes president....6months-1year in 50% of the population would want his head made into a canoe..


Ortho Crusader might be right...on whatever he say about osama./.

Osama Barrack thinks he is the next Bobby Kennedy. If he was, he would already be dead.

[Explosivo]

fuck no

jesus thatd be totally irresponsible


It was even more "totally irresponsible" to invade.

We should turn back the country to it's rightful owners and get the fuck out as soon as possible. PERIOD!

[Explosivo]

The whole political ring is an absolute joke.

Dems and Reps both suck, and are both stupid but still smarter than the bulk of the American public .....who lap up whatever those morons feed them.

Fucking pathetic.

[Orthodox Crusader]

The whole political ring is an absolute joke.

Dems and Reps both suck, and are both stupid but still smarter than the bulk of the American public .....who lap up whatever those morons feed them.

Fucking pathetic.

Sad but true. Its up to the people to take care of themselves.

Minutemen, local charities, soup kitchens, public education...this is the only way.

[Rabid Kimba]

Yes we can my brother! :cool:

Racist!

:nono:

[Ropadope]

your and my material comfort is built on (1) historical oppression (slavery and colonialism) and (2) current oppression. we haven't "left them to live as they wish".

I live a pretty modest lifestyle by choice, so I'm not ready to take responsibility for anyone's oppression. Just as I don't care about the poor of the world, I really wouldn't care if the people running our nations and economies were butchered. I understand that I'm caught in the middle.

As bad as slavery and colonialism were, they really are nothing new to the world. Slavery was horribly innefficient, and it is easy to argue that not much in the way of innovation came from slavery- at least nothing that would build an advanced civilization. Slavery in the U.S. would have died without the invention of the cotton gin. Unfortunately, slaves were a valuable commodity like tulips once were, so the trade continued. I think you could make a good argument that the U.S. Civil War would have happened much sooner had slavery been an efficient economic system.

Keeping colonies and fighting wars of conquest isn't exactly cheap or always productive, either, and there has to be a superior system in place to do those things. I think that the effects of slavery and colonialism tend to be exaggerated.

I don't think that you can exaggerate the importance that the control of petrolium and minerals have on modern economies. I'm still don't believe that I reap much of the benefit, or that the poor of the world would be much poorer, or tranquil, without the exploitation.

[Ropadope]

rope...

there are charities promoting birth control and birth control education. you can give to them too if you wish.

but birth control isn't going to solve the whole problem.

no, we don't just "keep them alive in misery and poverty". aid changes disease/death/misery to satisfaction. there is a clear, discrete line, between inadequate wellbeing and good wellbeing, and aid can make that difference.

Maybe you are right that aid does help the poor of the world, but I've often heard differently. I'm not sure how you define inadequate and adequate wellbeing, but I really wish that the poor of the world could manage on their own.

My point is that the tons of money spent on the vaccinations, food aid, etc. over the years seems to just keep people alive to live adequately (at the very best) at our expense. It just doesn't move me.

[slystaff]

well that depends on how its done

so if you add more specifics about this hypothetical i can answer betterDude!

You're splitting hairs (and I don't know why Puerto Rock is allowing you to do it).

THE BOTTOMLINE IS:

Do you think the war in Iraq should continue indefinitely or should the US start a plan to pull them out ASAP?

Obviously Barack or anyone else in power who wants to end the war wouldn't just drag them out of there without proper planning or consultation and understanding all the risks and implications.

So stop with this "running them out would be irresponsible" shit, as no elected president would make a rushed ill prepared move like that and just state your opinion on whether or not you think the war should end!

[Ropadope]

dsimon writes:

Education cures all ills. Simple as that. With education comes a lower birth rate, a higher standard of living, self sufficiency and an improved social order. Only money, charity can bring eduction to people who do not know any better. And people are smart enough to value education in this respect.

The poorest, most ignorant people will make tremendous sacrifices to send their kids to school if it is provided. Those kids then have a future and even the dumbest people on earth (whoever that may be) know that education is the future in this regard.

What people like the Rope don't get is that keeping people in poverty and ignorance is not only cruel, but it ultimately effects everybody. Pakistan's proplems are our problems. Uneducated people without a future will destroy this world. Instead of isolating our country and fighting immigration wars we should be going into the poor countries and providing infrastructure so they can help themselves. Put schools in Pakistan and Palistine and you would stop terrorism dead in its tracks. Make those people self sufficient and they no longer have a need to be suicide bombers and religious zealots

My point is that it is senseless to keep people in poverty. However, it is not the responsibilty of my government to educate, house, provide medical care to, or an infrastructure for the poor of the world. I put myself through school, and paid for my own medical care, housing, transport, clothing, food, etc. in the process, so I do have a problem with my government taking the money that I could have used to provide for myself, and providing for others.

Also, education can only do so much for a person, and not all people want to be educated. And that isn't even counting the fact that some people are too damn dumb to learn. Not even all education is good!

It isn't a lack of education that has Pakis pissed off, since many of the Paki radicals are well-educated. Al-Queda wasn't formed by the poor or illiterate. As far as Palestine goes, they have schools, but the Israelis often shut them down in order to drive the young from the country. Again, the reason for the despair and rage has little to do with education, or a lack of education.

[dsimon3387]

My point is that it is senseless to keep people in poverty. However, it is not the responsibilty of my government to educate, house, provide medical care to, or an infrastructure for the poor of the world. I put myself through school, and paid for my own medical care, housing, transport, clothing, food, etc. in the process, so I do have a problem with my government taking the money that I could have used to provide for myself, and providing for others.

Also, education can only do so much for a person, and not all people want to be educated. And that isn't even counting the fact that some people are too damn dumb to learn. Not even all education is good!

It isn't a lack of education that has Pakis pissed off, since many of the Paki radicals are well-educated. Al-Queda wasn't formed by the poor or illiterate. As far as Palestine goes, they have schools, but the Israelis often shut them down in order to drive the young from the country. Again, the reason for the despair and rage has little to do with education, or a lack of education.

dsimon writes:

It becomes our problem thats my point. All those uneducated people that breed and become desperate and manipulated by those with an agenda. The best way to combat this is through education. If you think stupidity in the world does not affect you materially and otherwise... we can agree to disagree but suffice to say my motives are not wholly altruistic. Ignorance, having too many children and being the means to an end to those with ambition are properties of people that can be rectified with education and can effect the world. It is a good investment to help people in their environments to prevent people from coming over here who contribute nothing. I would gladly send gobs of money to Mexico and China to prevent people coming over here. The countries where people are well educated and have social systems that take care of them are not the people who I see with 5 kids who will become a tax liability for my kids when they grow up.

[r o o s t e r]

Maybe you are right that aid does help the poor of the world, but I've often heard differently. I'm not sure how you define inadequate and adequate wellbeing, but I really wish that the poor of the world could manage on their own.

My point is that the tons of money spent on the vaccinations, food aid, etc. over the years seems to just keep people alive to live adequately (at the very best) at our expense. It just doesn't move me.

you can look at how their money is used. i'm not sure what the major charities in the US are, so i can't provide links. i can do it for the big charities here.

the major charities aim at sustainable improvements - teach him to fish rather than give him a fish, etc.. they fund the training of local aid workers, who can spread skills locally. there are real, lasting, solid differences that our aid has made. the reason they keep focusing on the problems is because they don't want us to stop giving.

[r o o s t e r]

It isn't a lack of education that has Pakis pissed off, since many of the Paki radicals are well-educated. Al-Queda wasn't formed by the poor or illiterate. As far as Palestine goes, they have schools, but the Israelis often shut them down in order to drive the young from the country. Again, the reason for the despair and rage has little to do with education, or a lack of education.

ha ha, mate, i guess you don't realise, but 'paki' is a pejorative, racist term, like 'spic' or 'kike' or 'n*****'. better to use 'pakistani'

Pak·i
Chiefly British Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a person from Pakistan or neighboring countries or for the descendant of such a person.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/paki

[PetreTG]

dsimon writes:

I think that Paul should keep building a consensus. With the internet the playing field will level more and more and if people keep pushing his message it might bear more fruit later on. In the meantime we have to all decide as Americans what we can do for our country. My thinking is that if people get another ignoramus Republican they will begin to see how awful these people are. Then a guy like Paul can get a real chance to get elected.


True .. :bears:

I thought people were ready for a guy like Paul ... and if this place is any indication , they ARE . Which is why they worked so hard to marginalize him on the MainStream.

Honestly ... I think it's too late to ever get someone like Paul again. The Corporate Aristocracy in this country is too powerful.

[Ropadope]

ha ha, mate, i guess you don't realise, but 'paki' is a pejorative, racist term, like 'spic' or 'kike' or 'n*****'. better to use 'pakistani'

Pak·i
Chiefly British Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a person from Pakistan or neighboring countries or for the descendant of such a person.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/paki

I just thought it is short for Pakistani, since most Brits that I have known use the term when talking of Pakistanis. I guess I should have known since it's usually preceeded by fooken or dirty.

[Ropadope]

you can look at how their money is used. i'm not sure what the major charities in the US are, so i can't provide links. i can do it for the big charities here.

the major charities aim at sustainable improvements - teach him to fish rather than give him a fish, etc.. they fund the training of local aid workers, who can spread skills locally. there are real, lasting, solid differences that our aid has made. the reason they keep focusing on the problems is because they don't want us to stop giving.

As long as it is through charity, I could care less. When I talk of aid, I mean government aid. I know that aid is a drop in the bucket of what the U.S. government spends, but I don't think that giving perpetual aid to anyone is the the business of the government. I also believe that if I have to pay my way through the corporate/government scam that is the U.S. university system, not a single foreigner here or abroad should receive a dime for education.

Do I prefer to spend money on aid than on aggressive war and weapons? Yes. But I would prefer to spend on neither.

Do you think that aid and education have put many third-world countries in the position to run the type of government and economy necessary to participate in fair trade that is beneficial to the entire nation? I'm not even sure which industrialized nation is fit to provide the example.

[Ropadope]

dsimon writes:

It becomes our problem thats my point. All those uneducated people that breed and become desperate and manipulated by those with an agenda. The best way to combat this is through education. If you think stupidity in the world does not affect you materially and otherwise... we can agree to disagree but suffice to say my motives are not wholly altruistic. Ignorance, having too many children and being the means to an end to those with ambition are properties of people that can be rectified with education and can effect the world. It is a good investment to help people in their environments to prevent people from coming over here who contribute nothing. I would gladly send gobs of money to Mexico and China to prevent people coming over here. The countries where people are well educated and have social systems that take care of them are not the people who I see with 5 kids who will become a tax liability for my kids when they grow up.

I don't advocate stupdity for anyone. I just don't think that it is the duty of the U.S. government to go around the world educating/indoctrinating a world elite that is supposed to be friendly to us. If charities want to build schools, teach people to read, dig wells or use rubbers, that's their business.

There is no reason that immigrants can't be kept out of the country. We have traditionally maintained the border with Mexico, and there is quite a bit of ocean between us and much of the world. Cheap labor is the goal, and it has been for the last 150 years. Our government couldn't do much more to convince people to come here.

[PetreTG]

WHAT DO , WE THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY DECIDE ???

It's all an illusion kids...
--------------------------
Superdelegates get campaign cash (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/02/superdelegates.html)

Posted by Foon Rhee, deputy national political editor February 14, 2008 03:54 PM


Many of the superdelegates who could well decide the Democratic presidential nominee have already been plied with campaign contributions by Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, a new study shows (http://www.capitaleye.org/inside.asp?ID=336).


"While it would be unseemly for the candidates to hand out thousands of dollars to primary voters, or to the delegates pledged to represent the will of those voters, elected officials serving as superdelegates have received about $890,000 from Obama and Clinton in the form of campaign contributions over the last three years," the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics reported today.

About half the 800 superdelegates -- elected officials, party leaders, and others -- have committed to either Clinton or Obama, though they can change their minds until the convention.


Obama's political action committee has doled out more than $694,000 to superdelegates since 2005, the study found, and of the 81 who had announced their support for Obama, 34 had received donations totaling $228,000.


Clinton's political action committee has distributed about $195,000 to superdelegates, and only 13 of the 109 who had announced for her have received money, totaling about $95,000.

[r o o s t e r]

As long as it is through charity, I could care less. When I talk of aid, I mean government aid. I know that aid is a drop in the bucket of what the U.S. government spends, but I don't think that giving perpetual aid to anyone is the the business of the government. I also believe that if I have to pay my way through the corporate/government scam that is the U.S. university system, not a single foreigner here or abroad should receive a dime for education.

Do I prefer to spend money on aid than on aggressive war and weapons? Yes. But I would prefer to spend on neither.

Do you think that aid and education have put many third-world countries in the position to run the type of government and economy necessary to participate in fair trade that is beneficial to the entire nation? I'm not even sure which industrialized nation is fit to provide the example.

that all sounds pretty sensible.

the individualist streak really is powerful in the US.

[slystaff]

btw...IF the Democrats choose Clinton as their nominee, they'll be giving the White House to the Republicans for another 4 years at least.

Hillary just isn't likable and the more you see her the less you like her. As such the fact that she's a woman will become more and more of a factor with white men at the very least (black men also).

Obama, however, is very likable and because of this the fact that he's an "African American" will become less and less of a factor...as it's already becoming less of a factor.

NO Republican would ever vote for Clinton. No chance of them switching...even if they're disillusioned with their party. Independents would prefer McCain to Clinton...and some democrats may either switch or simply not vote.

If the Dems want the Presidency they must choose Obama.

It's just that simple.

[Rock on]

I don't advocate stupdity for anyone. I just don't think that it is the duty of the U.S. government to go around the world educating/indoctrinating a world elite that is supposed to be friendly to us. If charities want to build schools, teach people to read, dig wells or use rubbers, that's their business.

There is no reason that immigrants can't be kept out of the country. We have traditionally maintained the border with Mexico, and there is quite a bit of ocean between us and much of the world. Cheap labor is the goal, and it has been for the last 150 years. Our government couldn't do much more to convince people to come here.

U have always shown a deep undersanding of issues. U are an asset ot this site.

[dsimon3387]

I don't advocate stupdity for anyone. I just don't think that it is the duty of the U.S. government to go around the world educating/indoctrinating a world elite that is supposed to be friendly to us. If charities want to build schools, teach people to read, dig wells or use rubbers, that's their business.

There is no reason that immigrants can't be kept out of the country. We have traditionally maintained the border with Mexico, and there is quite a bit of ocean between us and much of the world. Cheap labor is the goal, and it has been for the last 150 years. Our government couldn't do much more to convince people to come here.

dsimon writes:

There are tons of illegal immigrants in this country and they are not from Sweden, France, Holland, etc.... know what I mean? They are from countries that have social problems that make it so people will find a way to come here. No ocean I can see prevents people like the 80 year old Cantonese immigrants that are illegals and get free medical care. If you make it better in those countries people will stay and develop those societies. It is worth the cost to send money to Mexico if it makes that society a place where people can thrive.

China's population problems fuck this country up.... It is a fact. And as Asia is polluted because people breed irresponsably the price for goods and services increases in this country. California is the leading fish importer for ASia, for example.

Again it is worth it to send money if it is well spent.

[Orthodox Crusader]

dsimon writes:

There are tons of illegal immigrants in this country and they are not from Sweden, France, Holland, etc.... know what I mean? They are from countries that have social problems that make it so people will find a way to come here. No ocean I can see prevents people like the 80 year old Cantonese immigrants that are illegals and get free medical care. If you make it better in those countries people will stay and develop those societies. It is worth the cost to send money to Mexico if it makes that society a place where people can thrive.

China's population problems fuck this country up.... It is a fact. And as Asia is polluted because people breed irresponsably the price for goods and services increases in this country. California is the leading fish importer for ASia, for example.

Again it is worth it to send money if it is well spent.


RACIST.

[dsimon3387]

RACIST.

dsimon writes:

Why don't you take a page from my book? A page that I would willingly share with you.... If you notice I have some very real concerns about the problems of immigration and I manage to express them without resorting to rascist remarks. Everything stated in my post is true.

My Chinese teacher who is from Taiwan and here legally *(and who works for a living) is outraged because her roomate is here illegally and manages to get free medical care and other services. I think it is unjust that Chinese senior citizens here illegally get these services. I share her outrage. I do think as a society we have a responsability to our neighbors and that we can pay now or pay the much higher toll we are paying presently.

[Orthodox Crusader]

dsimon writes:

Why don't you take a page from my book? A page that I would willingly share with you.... If you notice I have some very real concerns about the problems of immigration and I manage to express them without resorting to rascist remarks. Everything stated in my post is true.

My Chinese teacher who is from Taiwan and here legally *(and who works for a living) is outraged because her roomate is here illegally and manages to get free medical care and other services. I think it is unjust that Chinese senior citizens here illegally get these services. I share her outrage. I do think as a society we have a responsability to our neighbors and that we can pay now or pay the much higher toll we are paying presently.
Throw them out, and don't let them in again.

[dsimon3387]

Throw them out, and don't let them in again.

dsimon writes:

I have no problem with that. The problem is how to keep them out. If you look at China's supposed "boom" it is not affecting the disanfranchised majority of the country... only a new class of greedy consumers who are rising on the backs of the farm and factory workers in China. These people are very dangerous. They will destroy the world.

One of two things will happen:

1) They will eventually force the government to let them have more than two kids a family and the world will be overpopulated even more and virtually destroyed by consumption of natural resources.... When Chinese dollars can have real purchasing power then grain food, seafood stocks, meat and mineral commodities and metals will be depleted in a few years.

2) or the Chinese government will treat them like they did the students at Tianeman square and destroy them. Which would be the best thing for the world.

What most people don't realize Ortho is that the students at Tianeman square were not only about freedom.... hardly. The students arrogantly cut off and allienated the factory workers and the agricultural workers and wanted bette conditions that would have not affected other suffering citizens in China. Without this support of the urban and agricultural classes the students became like an extra head of a chimera to lop off.

[r o o s t e r]

dsimon writes:

What most people don't realize Ortho is that the students at Tianeman square were not only about freedom.... hardly. The students arrogantly cut off and allienated the factory workers and the agricultural workers and wanted bette conditions that would have not affected other suffering citizens in China. Without this support of the urban and agricultural classes the students became like an extra head of a chimera to lop off.

this is interesting. in what way did they cut off the proles? they were pushing for more democracy and more freedom, which (the theory goes) would benefit all.

[Orthodox Crusader]

dsimon writes:

I have no problem with that. The problem is how to keep them out. If you look at China's supposed "boom" it is not affecting the disanfranchised majority of the country... only a new class of greedy consumers who are rising on the backs of the farm and factory workers in China. These people are very dangerous. They will destroy the world.

One of two things will happen:

1) They will eventually force the government to let them have more than two kids a family and the world will be overpopulated even more and virtually destroyed by consumption of natural resources.... When Chinese dollars can have real purchasing power then grain food, seafood stocks, meat and mineral commodities and metals will be depleted in a few years.

2) or the Chinese government will treat them like they did the students at Tianeman square and destroy them. Which would be the best thing for the world.

What most people don't realize Ortho is that the students at Tianeman square were not only about freedom.... hardly. The students arrogantly cut off and allienated the factory workers and the agricultural workers and wanted bette conditions that would have not affected other suffering citizens in China. Without this support of the urban and agricultural classes the students became like an extra head of a chimera to lop off.


Thats why America needs to close shop, and get back into Isolation.

[slystaff]

Thats why America needs a BLACK Leader:eeeek:

[Orthodox Crusader]

:eeeek:


You stupid fucking racoon. Don't ever touch another post of mine again. We all know you will be gone when your precious light brown boy gets his ass whipped. So why don't you pre-empt the inevitable and just fuck off, you horse faced old cunt.

[slystaff]

You stupid fucking racoon. Don't ever touch another post of mine again. We all know you will be gone when your precious light brown boy gets his ass whipped. So why don't you pre-empt the inevitable and just fuck off, you horse faced old cunt.See ya tomorrow! :cool:

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

fuck Hillary....Fuck Osama.......


WAR McCain....the BOXING PRESIDENT...:clap: he can help boxing.....fuck the poor people from the 3rd world...if we ain't helping the poor in this country why should we give a shit about some stinky asshole halfway across the world....

[r o o s t e r]

fuck the poor people from the 3rd world...if we ain't helping the poor in this country why should we give a shit about some stinky asshole halfway across the world....

equivocation. this is not the same type of 'poor'. western 'poor' means you have to live in a bad neighbourhood. world 'poor' means you're not gonna live.

[Nobleart]

dsimon writes:

I have no problem with that. The problem is how to keep them out. If you look at China's supposed "boom" it is not affecting the disanfranchised majority of the country... only a new class of greedy consumers who are rising on the backs of the farm and factory workers in China. These people are very dangerous. They will destroy the world.

One of two things will happen:

1) They will eventually force the government to let them have more than two kids a family and the world will be overpopulated even more and virtually destroyed by consumption of natural resources.... When Chinese dollars can have real purchasing power then grain food, seafood stocks, meat and mineral commodities and metals will be depleted in a few years.

2) or the Chinese government will treat them like they did the students at Tianeman square and destroy them. Which would be the best thing for the world.

What most people don't realize Ortho is that the students at Tianeman square were not only about freedom.... hardly. The students arrogantly cut off and allienated the factory workers and the agricultural workers and wanted bette conditions that would have not affected other suffering citizens in China. Without this support of the urban and agricultural classes the students became like an extra head of a chimera to lop off.



You're advocating keeping the Chinese in poverty "for the good of the world"?

Those greedy fuckers, tryin' to be just like us. I will run over a Chinaman with an SUV next time I see one. :clap:

[r o o s t e r]

some stinky asshole halfway across the world....

you are my main man illum. but talking about the poor of the developing world in this way is a bit nasty. i saw a disabled seven-year-old kid climbing into garbage cans on tiananmen square trying to find something to eat or sell. the economics is definitely controversial, but hope you'll be serious about it.

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

equivocation. this is not the same type of 'poor'. western 'poor' means you have to live in a bad neighbourhood. world 'poor' means you're not gonna live.


and the problem with that is....???

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

you are my main man illum. but talking about the poor of the developing world in this way is a bit nasty. i saw a disabled seven-year-old kid climbing into garbage cans on tiananmen square trying to find something to eat or sell. the economics is definitely controversial, but hope you'll be serious about it.
tie up them hoes tubes..or something.....cut off the man penis at birth....fuck is wrong those people....

[r o o s t e r]

See ya tomorrow! :cool:

using mod powers in personal beefs does not foster a good atmosphere. oc has said similar things to non-mods, with no action taken.

[r o o s t e r]

tie up them hoes tubes..or something.....cut off the man penis at birth....fuck is wrong those people....

the behaviour of chinese people is far far more prudent than westerners. they're not promiscuous, they don't do drugs, they don't do alcoholism. they work and they work and they study and they work, to get food for themselves and to get food for their parents.

the poor in china need children to support them when they are old. if the child is born disabled, the state offers little support.

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

when did china started the 1-child policy....?? How THE FUCK did they get over 1 billion people...:doh: and Indian is close behind...imagine the stink...:shit::doh:

[r o o s t e r]

tie up them hoes tubes..or something.....cut off the man penis at birth....fuck is wrong those people....

plus: they already have the one-child policy, and this is followed far more obediently than any of us westerners would, despite the huge financial risk to the parents in their old age (only one kid to support them) and the infringement of personal freedom.

any criticism or frustration with the developing world should not be levelled at the general population.

[r o o s t e r]

when did china started the 1-child policy....?? How THE FUCK did they get over 1 billion people...:doh:

they started it in the 1980s with deng xiaoping. it has curbed population growth.

if you were a poor farmer in the developing world, you would have kids too, because that's the only thing that will keep you alive in your later years.


...imagine the stink...:shit::doh:

seriously mate, i find it tough when you say things like that. please be a little more circumspect, and spend a little time in india or china before you vent so callously.

[slystaff]

using mod powers in personal beefs does not foster a good atmosphere. oc has said similar things to non-mods, with no action taken.Fuck OC. He likes to bring race into everything. You're from the UK as well aren't you? Don't pretend you don't know what he meant by "racoon"! :nono:

And what's with the "light skinned brown" nonsense.

He's gone for a day and is lucky that I didn't deem it longer.

[r o o s t e r]

Fuck OC. He likes to bring race into everything. You're from the UK as well aren't you? Don't pretend you don't know what he meant by "racoon"! :nono:

And what's with the "light skinned brown" nonsense.

He's gone for a day and is lucky that I didn't deem it longer.

i didn't know what the raccoon reference was. never heard it in relation to race. (and why would brits use it when we don't even have any raccoons here??)

yeah he pushes it too far. just too much vitriol. and the man works in law...

[slystaff]

i didn't know what the raccoon reference was. never heard it in relation to race. (and why would brits use it when we don't even have any raccoons here??)

yeah he pushes it too far. just too much vitriol. and the man works in law...

Coon? Never heard that in reference to race?

[D MAN]

Foreign aid = foreign occupation

[TFK]

Fuck OC. He likes to bring race into everything. You're from the UK as well aren't you? Don't pretend you don't know what he meant by "racoon"! :nono:

And what's with the "light skinned brown" nonsense.

He's gone for a day and is lucky that I didn't deem it longer.

Did you ban Dymipipel for his anti Polish thread?

I didn't think so.

Hypocrite.

If you want to ban someone just because they hurt your feelings, just say so.

Unless there's some Fightbeat rule that I'm not aware of that racism is tolerated, unless of course, it's against blacks.

TFK

[slystaff]

Did you ban Dymipipel for his anti Polish thread?

I didn't think so.

Hypocrite.

If you want to ban someone just because they hurt your feelings, just say so.

Unless there's some Fightbeat rule that I'm not aware of that racism is tolerated, unless of course, it's against blacks.

TFK

Dude I haven't been policing the boards recently in case you haven't noticed so obviously i haven't seen dymi's thread. If I had he would have been gone for at least 3 months because he's a waste of space.

But don't come on here and tell me that I'm biased towards black or you're next to go....

[TFK]

Dude I haven't been policing the boards recently in case you haven't noticed so obviously i haven't seen dymi's thread. If I had he would have been gone for at least 3 months because he's a waste of space.

But don't come on here and tell me that I'm biased towards black or you're next to go....

Oh, fuck off. Don't threaten me because I called out your hypocrisy.

I haven't done a God damn thing on this board to deserve a banning, so if you do decide to overstep your 'authority', I'm sure you'll be dealt with the same way Phonetap was when he got on his power trip everytime his feelings got hurt.

The bottom line is, if you don't like being called a hypocrite, don't be one.

TFK

[atomicdOGg34]

As long as it is through charity, I could care less. When I talk of aid, I mean government aid. I know that aid is a drop in the bucket of what the U.S. government spends, but I don't think that giving perpetual aid to anyone is the the business of the government. I also believe that if I have to pay my way through the corporate/government scam that is the U.S. university system, not a single foreigner here or abroad should receive a dime for education.

Do I prefer to spend money on aid than on aggressive war and weapons? Yes. But I would prefer to spend on neither.

Do you think that aid and education have put many third-world countries in the position to run the type of government and economy necessary to participate in fair trade that is beneficial to the entire nation? I'm not even sure which industrialized nation is fit to provide the example.

:bears:

[atomicdOGg34]

that all sounds pretty sensible.

the individualist streak really is powerful in the US.

with some people it is

others..... get the shears ready...bbbaaaahhhh

[dsimon3387]

this is interesting. in what way did they cut off the proles? they were pushing for more democracy and more freedom, which (the theory goes) would benefit all.

dsimon writes:

There was to be a coalition where better conditions... albiete somewhat compromised so all could be included, would be agreed upon in advance between the urban migratory workers, the agricultural workers and the students in the universities. The students decided not to join this coalition and alientated their demands from the coalition. Instead of a coalition where better working conditions, wages (for the proles), and a better situation for farmers, along with better conditions for University students, the students went at it alone. That is why they did not have the support of the other groups in Tianeman square.

I know this because my prof was in Tianeman square when it went down. The students thought themselves above the other groups and were convinced that the Chinese respect for education and the privaleged position of the educated would make an attack on the students improbable. The arrogance of the students was such that they were demanding not to be assigned to rural districts, which was a slap in the face of people in these districts (the farmers) who wanted access to education.

While there were issues of freedom a lot of the more prosaic issues were entitlements that university students wanted: Not to be asked to leave the cities primarily.

[dsimon3387]

You're advocating keeping the Chinese in poverty "for the good of the world"?

Those greedy fuckers, tryin' to be just like us. I will run over a Chinaman with an SUV next time I see one. :clap:

dsimon writes:

No, hardly. I am advocating helping the Chinese by using resources to help educate the poor people in China. I believe that we should help other nations in the world by using dollars to spread education and build infrastructure in the countries that need it. Mexico and China for example keep an entire population is poverty and ignorance and then we get those people because there are no opportunities.

[atomicdOGg34]

dsimon writes:

No, hardly. I am advocating helping the Chinese by using resources to help educate the poor people in China. I believe that we should help other nations in the world by using dollars to spread education and build infrastructure in the countries that need it. Mexico and China for example keep an entire population is poverty and ignorance and then we get those people because there are no opportunities.

bleeding heart liberal

[dsimon3387]

See ya tomorrow! :cool:

dsimon writes:

Ortho was wrong to respond that way but you antagonized him... not cool to ban under those conditions.

[dsimon3387]

plus: they already have the one-child policy, and this is followed far more obediently than any of us westerners would, despite the huge financial risk to the parents in their old age (only one kid to support them) and the infringement of personal freedom.

any criticism or frustration with the developing world should not be levelled at the general population.

dsimon writes:

:bears: Bravo!! the poor agricultural and itenerant urban workers in China are hardly the problem. The rising urban Middle class is another story.

First off as a practical matter the poor can hardly afford to migrate here, or anywhere and they do not consume in excess. They also fufill a useful purpose by growing food and producing things through labor.

The same greedy pricks we have in this country are the problem over there. I hate to say it but I can't wait for the government to crack down and destroy the capitolists when it sees fit. It was brutal and overkill what was done to the students but something had to be done.:dunno:

[dsimon3387]

Fuck OC. He likes to bring race into everything. You're from the UK as well aren't you? Don't pretend you don't know what he meant by "racoon"! :nono:

And what's with the "light skinned brown" nonsense.

He's gone for a day and is lucky that I didn't deem it longer.

dsimon writes:

yeah and you had no part in antagonizing him knowing how he would react. I give OC shit about his rascism all the time, but when I do it I make an effort to tread lightly knowing that he gets fired up easily. Is that too much to ask?

[dsimon3387]

Dude I haven't been policing the boards recently in case you haven't noticed so obviously i haven't seen dymi's thread. If I had he would have been gone for at least 3 months because he's a waste of space.

But don't come on here and tell me that I'm biased towards black or you're next to go....

dsimon writes:

Fuck off and go poute another 2 months. Stop using the boards to abuse your authority. What a shithead. Comes back to start a fight with people and threaten others.

Your race is not the problem... that is true, it is your character and your need to abuse your mod powers which should at this point be taken away.

edit: Ohh and regarding Dym... Dym may troll at times but he is one of the most intelligent posters on the board.

[dsimon3387]

bleeding heart liberal

dsimon writes:

there is a fair amount of self interest involved with why I would choose to render this type of aid, altruism and a liberal agenda do not figure much into my reasons.

What people like you and Rope fail to realize is that when a region of the world sufers from poverty and ignorance it affects you and your society. These problems need addressing and when remedied effectively solutions that are cost effective and based on the pursuite of self interest are the inevitable result.

I don't know about you but I would love Mexico to be self sufficient enough so that my society does not become a third world country, my tax dollars do not become a means to provide welfare to the kids of those people who are here (and not there), and people in that society can have a standard of living that teaches them not to breed excessively, but to educate one kid who will make a contribution to the world instead of being a drain on the world. Is that so hard for you to understand? :notallthere:

[atomicdOGg34]

dsimon writes:

there is a fair amount of self interest involved with why I would choose to render this type of aid, altruism and a liberal agenda do not figure much into my reasons.

What people like you and Rope fail to realize is that when a region of the world sufers from poverty and ignorance it affects you and your society. These problems need addressing and when remedied effectively solutions that are cost effective and based on the pursuite of self interest are the inevitable result.

I don't know about you but I would love Mexico to be self sufficient enough so that my society does not become a third world country, my tax dollars do not become a means to provide welfare to the kids of those people who are here (and not there), and people in that society can have a standard of living that teaches them not to breed excessively, but to educate one kid who will make a contribution to the world instead of being a drain on the world. Is that so hard for you to understand? :notallthere:

your missing the point

if you want to give some money to the poor, the uneducated, the starving.... thats great, you can

but it should be every single persons choice if they wish to give, all charity should be voluntary

answer me this, lets say you had a neighbor that came over to your house and without even asking you, opened your wallet, took all the money in it, then mailed it off to someone you dont even know in africa? and he did this repeatedly.

how would you feel

[dsimon3387]

your missing the point

if you want to give some money to the poor, the uneducated, the starving.... thats great, you can

but it should be every single persons choice if they wish to give, all charity should be voluntary

answer me this, lets say you had a neighbor that came over to your house and without even asking you, opened your wallet, took all the money in it, then mailed it off to someone you dont even know in africa? and he did this repeatedly.

how would you feel

dsimon writes:

Your example is simplistic to the point of not applying. How would you like to have a neighbor who had a leaky roof that was pouring shit onto and destroying your roof? What if he needed you to chip in to fix the problem so your roof would not get destroyed? What if the price for this was substantially less than it would cost you to let his roof be destroyed and your roof as a result? You dig? :dunno:

Stop taking it on a personal level... The poverty in a third world country is a reality that we all feel the effects of, it does not have to do with you being shaken down to give money.... it is as much as a problem as a hurricane that has to be stopped somewhere else so it does not blow your trailer park down...

[atomicdOGg34]

dsimon writes:

Your example is simplistic to the point of not applying. How would you like to have a neighbor who had a leaky roof that was pouring shit onto and destroying your roof? What if he needed you to chip in to fix the problem so your roof would not get destroyed? What if the price for this was substantially less than it would cost you to let his roof be destroyed and your roof as a result? You dig? :dunno:

Stop taking it on a personal level... The poverty in a third world country is a reality that we all feel the effects of, it does not have to do with you being shaken down to give money.... it is as much as a problem as a hurricane that has to be stopped somewhere else so it does not blow your trailer park down...

so basically your saying take peoples money without their permission is cool

and you said my comparison was simplistic?

[dsimon3387]

so basically your saying take peoples money without their permission is cool

and you said my comparison was simplistic?

dsimon writes:

Do you really not understand my point? I can't explain it any better. I am hardly talking about taking people's money.... Your not getting what I am saying and I explained it to the best of my ability.

[atomicdOGg34]

dsimon writes:

Do you really not understand my point? I can't explain it any better. I am hardly talking about taking people's money.... Your not getting what I am saying and I explained it to the best of my ability.

i understand what your saying, however its not within the power of the govt to do such things

the constitution is to protect INDIVIDUAL rights, when you look at it at the individual level it breaks down

i agree we should help other countries, but its difficult to say how, it should be done all by voluntary charity, but who the money goes to and how is complicated, shit like that usually winds up in the wrong hands and doesnt do what you hoped

[dsimon3387]

i understand what your saying, however its not within the power of the govt to do such things

the constitution is to protect INDIVIDUAL rights, when you look at it at the individual level it breaks down

i agree we should help other countries, but its difficult to say how, it should be done all by voluntary charity, but who the money goes to and how is complicated, shit like that usually winds up in the wrong hands and doesnt do what you hoped

dsimon writes:

It is a public health issue and it does not have to be the government per se. Quasi government entities like Sallie Mae (for mortgages) or private donors are just a few possabilites. My point is that it is a problem with a solution. I don't see the government as having to be the solution, though if we can spend money to start a war we should be able to spend money to prevent global problems that will affect every citizen of this countries standard of living.

[atomicdOGg34]

dsimon writes:

It is a public health issue and it does not have to be the government per se. Quasi government entities like Sallie Mae (for mortgages) or private donors are just a few possabilites. My point is that it is a problem with a solution. I don't see the government as having to be the solution, though if we can spend money to start a war we should be able to spend money to prevent global problems that will affect every citizen of this countries standard of living.

im saying we dont spend money on war either

if people werent taxed for everything then more would prolly give to charity

and if we fixed this messed up economic situation and shit, thatd help too

[r o o s t e r]

dsimon writes:

There was to be a coalition where better conditions... albiete somewhat compromised so all could be included, would be agreed upon in advance between the urban migratory workers, the agricultural workers and the students in the universities. The students decided not to join this coalition and alientated their demands from the coalition. Instead of a coalition where better working conditions, wages (for the proles), and a better situation for farmers, along with better conditions for University students, the students went at it alone. That is why they did not have the support of the other groups in Tianeman square.

I know this because my prof was in Tianeman square when it went down. The students thought themselves above the other groups and were convinced that the Chinese respect for education and the privaleged position of the educated would make an attack on the students improbable. The arrogance of the students was such that they were demanding not to be assigned to rural districts, which was a slap in the face of people in these districts (the farmers) who wanted access to education.

While there were issues of freedom a lot of the more prosaic issues were entitlements that university students wanted: Not to be asked to leave the cities primarily.

the stuff abuot the internal coalition anglings is interesting - i haven't heard that before.

on the point about the Beida students not wanting to be sent down to the countryside - that's always seemed sensible, and certainly not arrogant. that maoist cultural revolution "proletarian education" screwed up a generation, set the whole country back. they sure don't make the beida or tsinghua kids waste their talents anymore - they let them work as engineers, scientists, businessmen, wherever they want.

[dsimon3387]

the stuff abuot the internal coalition anglings is interesting - i haven't heard that before.

on the point about the Beida students not wanting to be sent down to the countryside - that's always seemed sensible, and certainly not arrogant. that maoist cultural revolution "proletarian education" screwed up a generation, set the whole country back. they sure don't make the beida or tsinghua kids waste their talents anymore - they let them work as engineers, scientists, businessmen, wherever they want.

dsimon writes:

Indeed. Unfortunately its sort of a no win situaton. I certainlky wouldn't want to study Wittgenstein and then get sent to teach in suburb of Hellsinki :lol: but the people in the rural areas suffer tremendously because no qualfied teachers want to be in those areas.

[r o o s t e r]

dsimon writes:

Indeed. Unfortunately its sort of a no win situaton. I certainlky wouldn't want to study Wittgenstein and then get sent to teach in suburb of Hellsinki :lol: but the people in the rural areas suffer tremendously because no qualfied teachers want to be in those areas.

ironic since wittgenstein himself gave up philosophy and went to teach math in a little elementary school in austria, h aha

sreiously though, they weren't getting sent to teach, they were getting sent to do manual labour, or whatever other clueless plan the ccp happened to come up with

poor education in rural areas is definitely a problem, and the gov't have some schemes to encourage bright grads to spend a year out there teaching, before embarking on their career.

[dsimon3387]

ironic since wittgenstein himself gave up philosophy and went to teach math in a little elementary school in austria, h aha

sreiously though, they weren't getting sent to teach, they were getting sent to do manual labour, or whatever other clueless plan the ccp happened to come up with

poor education in rural areas is definitely a problem, and the gov't have some schemes to encourage bright grads to spend a year out there teaching, before embarking on their career.
dsimon writes:Those poor people get no love. Pollution and no medical care, it is sad. Yeah Mao was an ass that way. He modernized the textbooks.... that was his contribution. Unfortunately he threw the teachers out the window. Kant was also like that. He never left his home town haha.

[LOK]

ironic since wittgenstein himself gave up philosophy and went to teach math in a little elementary school in austria, h aha

sreiously though, they weren't getting sent to teach, they were getting sent to do manual labour, or whatever other clueless plan the ccp happened to come up with

poor education in rural areas is definitely a problem, and the gov't have some schemes to encourage bright grads to spend a year out there teaching, before embarking on their career.

:lol: :tease:

[Rabid Kimba]

Now you know how Mexicans felt when gringos started ILLEGALLY coming into Mexican territory by the hundreds of thousands (and eventually millions) way back in the mid 1800s...now it's the beaners' turn.

How do you like dem apples now?

Manifest Destiny Northwards!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tyler Durden]

dsimon writes:

Do you really not understand my point? I can't explain it any better. I am hardly talking about taking people's money.... Your not getting what I am saying and I explained it to the best of my ability.

If it's any consolation, I got it :lol:

Ideolgy is a hard thing to shake apparently.

[r o o s t e r]

:lol: :tease:

that was a typo and you know it.

:blobbox:

[PetreTG]

http://image55.webshots.com/555/2/10/88/2437210880101688296QcdBiX_ph.jpg

:doh:

[dsimon3387]

If it's any consolation, I got it :lol:

Ideolgy is a hard thing to shake apparently.

dsimon writes:

:lol: :lol: Indeed.

[boxerpuncher]

this is the biggest bit of dirt you have on him?

It seems there are two types of political posters on here, retards and trolls.-Well since Paul turned out to be nothing more than a pimple on the country's ass he had to come with a different spin to keep his name up on board daily.

[dsimon3387]

-Well since Paul turned out to be nothing more than a pimple on the country's ass he had to come with a different spin to keep his name up on board daily.

dsimon writes:

Yeah I can see loyalty to a candidate but I am hoping and praying we don't collectively see the dumbest argument in politics: That all the candidates are the same anyway. There is a real fight for the democratic nomination and it is a fight worth fighting!

As a strategy OBama has decided to bring people together and propose some decent programs that can be worked out. I don't agree with all his programs but so what? He has shown that he can bring people together which is the most important thing in the world (yes in the world) right now. I say this because Bush has caused such global problems that we need a leader who can bring people together to solve problems.

Obama has shown that he is electable as well. That was the big question mark with his candidacy.

meanwhile Clinton's strategy is to use ad hominum attacks against Obama, to pander to people who should represent their districts (super delegates) and who instead are hijacking the democratic process and the voice of their constitutes. Clinton is awful. She is as derisive as Busch and only slightly more intelligent. She would say or do anything to get the nomination. She has no ethical boundries.

My point is that Petre, and others.... make no mistake about it, if Clinton gets that nomination it is unjust. If Clinton had any concern for the party she would concede the race to Obama and help him defeat the latest evil Caucasian silver fox, for the sake of this country. Obama has shown he has the broad based appeal to be elected the Democrats simply would rather use the nomination for their own synocured purposes and out of fear for the morally bancrupt Clintons.

I am frankly sick to my stomach with fear that Clinton will be rewarded for her derisive, morally bancrupt campaign.

[atomicdOGg34]

liberals are fascists

[Tyler Durden]

Conservatives are pick-pocketing Jesus freaks.

[atomicdOGg34]

Conservatives are pick-pocketing Jesus freaks.

i neither steal nor am i a christian

i win

[Rock on]

Conservatives are pick-pocketing Jesus freaks.

:lol:

[Rock on]

dsimon writes:

Yeah I can see loyalty to a candidate but I am hoping and praying we don't collectively see the dumbest argument in politics: That all the candidates are the same anyway. There is a real fight for the democratic nomination and it is a fight worth fighting!

As a strategy OBama has decided to bring people together and propose some decent programs that can be worked out. I don't agree with all his programs but so what? He has shown that he can bring people together which is the most important thing in the world (yes in the world) right now. I say this because Bush has caused such global problems that we need a leader who can bring people together to solve problems.

Obama has shown that he is electable as well. That was the big question mark with his candidacy.

meanwhile Clinton's strategy is to use ad hominum attacks against Obama, to pander to people who should represent their districts (super delegates) and who instead are hijacking the democratic process and the voice of their constitutes. Clinton is awful. She is as derisive as Busch and only slightly more intelligent. She would say or do anything to get the nomination. She has no ethical boundries.

My point is that Petre, and others.... make no mistake about it, if Clinton gets that nomination it is unjust. If Clinton had any concern for the party she would concede the race to Obama and help him defeat the latest evil Caucasian silver fox, for the sake of this country. Obama has shown he has the broad based appeal to be elected the Democrats simply would rather use the nomination for their own synocured purposes and out of fear for the morally bancrupt Clintons.

I am frankly sick to my stomach with fear that Clinton will be rewarded for her derisive, morally bancrupt campaign.

:bears:

[Rock on]

dsimon writes:

Your example is simplistic to the point of not applying. How would you like to have a neighbor who had a leaky roof that was pouring shit onto and destroying your roof? What if he needed you to chip in to fix the problem so your roof would not get destroyed? What if the price for this was substantially less than it would cost you to let his roof be destroyed and your roof as a result? You dig? :dunno:

Stop taking it on a personal level... The poverty in a third world country is a reality that we all feel the effects of, it does not have to do with you being shaken down to give money.... it is as much as a problem as a hurricane that has to be stopped somewhere else so it does not blow your trailer park down...

Yup, yup. I do not have the energy now, but the length which rich nations go to, to keep, oh yes, to keep developing nations down and forever independent like perennial cows to be milked is shocking beyond belief.

Anyone savvy on world trade would know where I am coming from. Nothing new, humans have always strove to maximise advantage to the detriment of the others and others have always fought back to survive somehow. The <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>USA</st1:place></st1:country-region> was a nation formed solely on economic migration … ironically.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Anyway, economic migration is the prime consequence of this. Nothing happens in isolation or a vacuum.
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
It is hilarious when folks discuss the effects of immigration from the "undesirable world" without appreciating the drivers.<o:p></o:p>

[atomicdOGg34]

if you want to help nations you should trase freely and fairly with them, not tax the people then give their money to others

[Tyler Durden]

if you want to help nations you should trase freely and fairly with them, not tax the people then give their money to others

Exactly, you should tax people to kill others.

[atomicdOGg34]

Exactly, you should tax people to kill others.

where did i say that?

[Tyler Durden]

where did i say that?

That's what you do when you go to war. You don't like the liberal way of taxing, so I figure you must like the more noble approach of spending peoples money :clap:

[atomicdOGg34]

That's what you do when you go to war. You don't like the liberal way of taxing, so I figure you must like the more noble approach of spending peoples money :clap:

cant have one without the other

in case you missed it, im a libertarian (or a republican with libertarian leanings anyways)

[Tyler Durden]

cant have one without the other

in case you missed it, im a libertarian (or a republican with libertarian leanings anyways)
War taxes are not that big of issue to you than taxes for the needy, interesting.

Well thank God for Petre giving us Ron Paul :lol:

[atomicdOGg34]

War taxes are not that big of issue to you than taxes for the needy, interesting.

Well thank God for Petre giving us Ron Paul :lol:

we arent talking about that right now so i dont know what your point is

[Tyler Durden]

we arent talking about that right now so i dont know what your point is

Your issues with liberals and taxes have been played out here, let's not play....."whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis"

[atomicdOGg34]

Your issues with liberals and taxes have been played out here, let's not play....."whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis"

not all revenues come from taxes

2nd of all depends on why your killing those people

[Tyler Durden]

not all revenues come from taxes

2nd of all depends on why your killing those people

More taxes are for war than giving to the needy, yet I see no critisism about this from your fingers.

Please tell me why we are :popcorn:

[atomicdOGg34]

More taxes are for war than giving to the needy, yet I see no critisism about this from your fingers.

Please tell me why we are :popcorn:

well i was trying to stay on topic

again, if those taxes are spent on national defense i dont see the problem, though if you dont have a welfare state, might not even need to tax for that so much

[Ropadope]

Now you know how Mexicans felt when gringos started ILLEGALLY coming into Mexican territory by the hundreds of thousands (and eventually millions) way back in the mid 1800s...now it's the beaners' turn.

How do you like dem apples now?

Manifest Destiny Northwards!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually, Anglos were invited by the Mexican government to establish industry because the area was sparsely populated.

[PetreTG]

Remember ole Larry Sinclair ?

Looks like he's gonna take the Pepsi Challenge :lol:

============
http://www.whitehouse.com/images/logo.gif
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="96%" background=images/story_header_center.jpg></TD><TD vAlign=top width="2%"></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=3><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>http://www.whitehouse.com/news/images/109.jpg </TD><TD class=body_main vAlign=top align=left>The truth will set you free they say, but the truth plus $100,000 will set you even freer. That's the conclusion our good friend Larry Sinclair has come to after considering the offer we made him yesterday: $10,000 to take a polygraph test over his Barack Obama sex and drugs claims, and $100,000 if he passes it.

After communicating via email to work out the logistics of the challenge, we were able to reach an agreement. Now, the plan is to get together with Sinclair and one of the best polygraph experts in the country, and ask him some questions – with the camera rolling, of course. As more details are made available we will post it here.

The results of the whole thing will be posted right here on Whitehouse.com. Our pockets lighter by either ten grand or ten times that amount, we'll all have a better sense of what to make of Sinclair's almost-too-unbelievable-to-be-unbelievable allegations against a Senator who is poised, perhaps, to make history.






</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_main colSpan=2>Mr Sinclair has put up instead of shutting up so we will see which way the chips fall.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Ropadope]

U have always shown a deep undersanding of issues. U are an asset ot this site.

You don't actually mean that, do you?

[Ropadope]

that all sounds pretty sensible.

the individualist streak really is powerful in the US.

Traditionally it was. I just happen to live in a region where most pepole are descended from colonists and settlers (rapidly changing, unfortunately!)instead of immigrants, and where progressive/Marxists movements were frowned upon.

[Rabid Kimba]

Actually, Anglos were invited by the Mexican government to establish industry because the area was sparsely populated.

And look how they got repaid, lol.

Beaners stupid, gringos smart.

:lol:

[jarhead]

I love it when people talk of raising taxes to "give to the needy". I'm not rich, just middleclass. My "needy" is my family. And I don't need anyone telling me I need to give anywhere else but right here in my home. My son "needs" a college education. I need to ensure mine and my wife's retirement. I see so many talking about all the lives you could save and drinking water for this country. Take a look in the mirror pal. If you cared so much you would donate 50% of your income to charity and live off top ramen, but instead you would rather sound all righteous on a message board. Grow up Peter Pan.

[Ropadope]

dsimon writes:

There are tons of illegal immigrants in this country and they are not from Sweden, France, Holland, etc.... know what I mean? They are from countries that have social problems that make it so people will find a way to come here. No ocean I can see prevents people like the 80 year old Cantonese immigrants that are illegals and get free medical care. If you make it better in those countries people will stay and develop those societies. It is worth the cost to send money to Mexico if it makes that society a place where people can thrive.

China's population problems fuck this country up.... It is a fact. And as Asia is polluted because people breed irresponsably the price for goods and services increases in this country. California is the leading fish importer for ASia, for example.

Again it is worth it to send money if it is well spent.

I seriously doubt that many people would trek across the world knowing that they couldn't work, had no medical care, housing, education etc. and would be jailed and deported for their efforts-and they certainly wouldn't have political lobbies on their behalf. There is a reason that Chinese and Mexicans are coming to the U.S.. We've traditionally controlled immigration, and I'm sure that we could do the same now.

Also, Mexico and China aren't poor nations. Why should we give money to corrupt nations? And one of the reasons that China has the ability to harm the U.S. so badly now is that the U.S. economy has been allowed to become dependent on China- another example of not doing what's best for the whole nation.

[Rabid Kimba]

Mexico and China aren't poor nations.

This is actually true.

Both China and Mexico are in the top dozen of world's largest economies.

But Mexico is one goddamned corrupt motherfucking country...a country of extremes. You have the world's richest man in Mexico, shitloads of other billionaires...but the vast majority gets fucked.

Revolution time, baby.

[Ropadope]

And look how they got repaid, lol.

Beaners stupid, gringos smart.

:lol:

Few Americans have ever agreed with the immigration. The few people who profit bludgeon the rest of us with speech codes, slurs, and ultimately government-backed violence or sanctions if we don't walk the line on immigration and race issues. Unfortunately, our 'betters' are too stupid, greedy and/or short-sighted to see that they (or their descendants) will go down with the rest of us. I wouldn't necessarily call taking advantage smart.

[Tyler Durden]

I love it when people talk of raising taxes to "give to the needy". I'm not rich, just middleclass. My "needy" is my family. And I don't need anyone telling me I need to give anywhere else but right here in my home. My son "needs" a college education. I need to ensure mine and my wife's retirement. I see so many talking about all the lives you could save and drinking water for this country. Take a look in the mirror pal. If you cared so much you would donate 50% of your income to charity and live off top ramen, but instead you would rather sound all righteous on a message board. Grow up Peter Pan.

You are talking about a middle class that is unable to give ANYTHING unles you are willing to give up half :rolleyes: ? Grow up Grinch.

[atomicdOGg34]

get a job you fucken bums

and keep your paws out of my pockets

[Tyler Durden]

get a job you fucken bums

and keep your paws out of my pockets

Tell it to the war machine :laughing:

[PetreTG]

I love it when people talk of raising taxes to "give to the needy". I'm not rich, just middleclass. My "needy" is my family. And I don't need anyone telling me I need to give anywhere else but right here in my home. My son "needs" a college education. I need to ensure mine and my wife's retirement. I see so many talking about all the lives you could save and drinking water for this country. Take a look in the mirror pal. If you cared so much you would donate 50% of your income to charity and live off top ramen, but instead you would rather sound all righteous on a message board. Grow up Peter Pan.

Who are you refering to ? ME? :dunno:

If so you totally missed my point that started this thread , but as I've said before ... sarcasm doesn't work to well on the net. :doh:

[PetreTG]

CAMPAIGN TRICKERY ???

I think so . :cool:

<div><object width="420" height="339"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x4eaod" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x4eaod" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="339" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object>

What a crock of BULLSHIT .... voting for Obama ? You WILL get fooled again. :clap:

[PetreTG]

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SZTo0iGc_Dw&rel=1&border=0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SZTo0iGc_Dw&rel=1&border=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

:lol:

[Tyler Durden]

CAMPAIGN TRICKERY ???

I think so . :cool:




What a crock of BULLSHIT .... voting for Obama ? You WILL get fooled again. :clap:

:eeeek:

That's wayyyyy too many coincidences to be real :nono:

[jarhead]

You are talking about a middle class that is unable to give ANYTHING unles you are willing to give up half :rolleyes: ? Grow up Grinch.

Seriously, how much do donate to charities? And be honest with yourself. don't just lie for the sake of your arguement. I pay almost 30% of my income to taxes, that isn't even including state sales tax and property tax. Enough already. I'll take care of my family, you take care of yours. If you want to donate to charity, by all means. But who are you to tell me what I need to give? Would you allow me to tell you what to do, who to see, where to go?

[Tyler Durden]

Seriously, how much do donate to charities? And be honest with yourself. don't just lie for the sake of your arguement. I pay almost 30% of my income to taxes, that isn't even including state sales tax and property tax. Enough already. I'll take care of my family, you take care of yours. If you want to donate to charity, by all means. But who are you to tell me what I need to give? Would you allow me to tell you what to do, who to see, where to go?

I pay just as much as you do in taxes. Some is more than NONE if that is what you are asking :dunno: And sorry, I am sure you can afford to give some, if you are that worried about it, consider you get to write it off :clap:

It's about using tax dollars and cutting spending, you would pay the same taxes stingy ass, don't worry :lol:

[PetreTG]

:eeeek:

That's wayyyyy too many coincidences to be real :nono:

NO don't you see ... he'll stop his campaigning and make sure the women are ok because he cares so much ...

GOD people are so stupid ... :doh:

In real life Obama is probably the type that says ... fuck that bitch , tell her to drink some water.

What a phoney :cool:

[TFK]

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<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SZTo0iGc_Dw&rel=1&border=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"width="425" height="355"></embed></OBJECT></P>
:lol:


That's awesome.

I get the same response anytime I ask someone why they would vote for Obama or Clinton. They can never mention anything tangible, instead can only spout off buzzwords like 'inspire', 'potential' or 'charasmatic' or other such nonsense.

TFK

[puerto rock]

In real life Obama is probably the type that says ... fuck that bitch , tell her to drink some water. What a phoney :cool:

They're all liars. They all have their own agendas.

[Tyler Durden]

That's awesome.

I get the same response anytime I ask someone why they would vote for Obama or Clinton. They can never mention anything tangible, instead can only spout off buzzwords like 'inspire', 'potential' or 'charasmatic' or other such nonsense.

TFK

I get "bama is gonna set us free" then I ask the damning question, how? :lol:

[PetreTG]

I get "bama is gonna set us free" then I ask the damning question, how? :lol:

WITH CHANGE MAN ...DON'T YOU GET IT ? :nono:

[Tyler Durden]

WITH CHANGE MAN ...DON'T YOU GET IT ? :nono:

Oh boy, tap is sure to come here now :laughing:

[phonetap]

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:lol:

chris matthews played himself in that segment...the funniest part of that clip was when olbermann asked matthews to name the accomplishments of the US senate over the past 7 years and matthews got stumped and tried to spin. matthews writes books on politics and always proclaims his love for politics and he couldn't answer olbermann's question on the spot...that was equally as emabrassing as that texas state senator inability to name obama's accomplishments.

then matthews tried to act like this was HARDBALL and olbermann (again) called him out again saying...the show isn't HARDBALL, it's election coverage...:lol:

[Tyler Durden]

I predicted it....AGAIN :bears:

[atomicdOGg34]

olberman is a clown

he isnt a news guy at all, his show has more liberal spin than almost any other i can think of

[phonetap]

Oh boy, tap is sure to come here now :laughing:

so you noticed phonetap viewing the thread and now pretend to be some sort of prognosticator? :lol:

[phonetap]

I predicted it....AGAIN :bears:

you didn't predict shit asshole...you noticed phonetap viewing the thread and quickly responded with your so-called prediction...any idiot can see you replyed 2 minutes before he did...:laughing:

[Tyler Durden]

so you noticed phonetap viewing the thread and now pretend to be some sort of prognosticator? :lol:

No, I wasn't expecting you this early :eeeek:

It was a fairly easy prediction either way :cool:

[Tyler Durden]

you didn't predict shit asshole...you noticed phonetap viewing the thread and quickly responded with your so-called prediction...any idiot can see you replyed 2 minutes before he did...:laughing:

You are predictable, your strawman is dead :laughing:

[phonetap]

olberman is a clown

he isnt a news guy at all, his show has more liberal spin than almost any other i can think of

and phonetap bets you think all those political hacks on fauxnews is real news right? newsflash pal...the spin comes from BOTH sides of the isle.

[atomicdOGg34]

keith didnt punk anyone btw

ridiculous

[Tyler Durden]

and phonetap bets you think all those political hacks on fauxnews is real news right? newsflash pal...the spin comes from BOTH sides of the isle.

I have never seen both sides having women pass out :rolleyes:

:lol:

[atomicdOGg34]

and phonetap bets you think all those political hacks on fauxnews is real news right? newsflash pal...the spin comes from BOTH sides of the isle.

when did i say that?

fact is, your analysis of the clip was totally off

olberman is a clown, hes a disgrace to a network that has some pretty good guys on there

[phonetap]

No, I wasn't expecting you this early :eeeek:

It was a fairly easy prediction either way :cool:

you need to do a better job of spinning son...was phonetap supposed to respond a week or so from now? :laughing: you noticed phonetap reading the thread and quickly jumped the gun to look "smart"...all you did was play yourself...

[Tyler Durden]

you need to do a better job of spinning son...was phonetap supposed to respond a week or so from now? :laughing: you noticed phonetap reading the thread and quickly jumped the gun to look "smart"...all you did was play yourself...

I did this before, it was much later when you came to my becon call, I didn't know you were this nervous :lol:

[atomicdOGg34]

btw PT, i responded to your smoking question in a different thread and you never got back to me

[Tyler Durden]

btw PT, i responded to your smoking question in a different thread and you never got back to me

Just say the magic words, black or Obama :dunno:

[phonetap]

keith didnt punk anyone btw

ridiculous

:doh: ...no one with a ronald reagan avatar can be taken seriously with ANY liberal matters. if you don't like the man fine...you are most certainly entitled to your personal opinion but don't try to pass it off as fact because if you show up on any liberal blog/forum (where olbermann is typically loved) with a ronald reagan avatar talking this mess, you'd have 50 immediate responses blasting you to pieces inside of 10 minutes. only those with a liberal/progressive tilt can give a reasoned and/or unbiased assessment of olbermanns perfromance.

[phonetap]

Just say the magic words, black or Obama :dunno:

everything with you is always about race...:rolleyes:...you trolls really have taken over this place.

[phonetap]

btw PT, i responded to your smoking question in a different thread and you never got back to me

forgot all about that.

[atomicdOGg34]

:doh: ...no one with a ronald reagan avatar can be taken seriously with ANY liberal matters. if you don't like the man fine...you are most certainly entitled to your personal opinion but don't try to pass it off as fact because if you show up on any liberal blog/forum (where olbermann is typically loved) with a ronald reagan avatar talking this mess, you'd have 50 immediate responses blasting you to pieces inside of 10 minutes. only those with a liberal/progressive tilt can give a reasoned and/or unbiased assessment of olbermanns perfromance.

classic liberal response

figures

dont have anything to say about the argument, just try and make the person look like a hate monger or racist or because he is a certain way that isnt your way he must be unreasonable

point is, you have no argument

and as for olberman, i used to LOVE him when he was on ESPN, now hes just a clown, passing his show off as "news"

[atomicdOGg34]

forgot all about that.

well i forget the thread so continue here if ya like

[TFK]

only those with a liberal/progressive tilt can give a reasoned and/or unbiased assessment of olbermanns perfromance.


Wait......what?

So you have to be liberal to give an unbiased opinion on Olberman?

That don't make no sense.

TFK

[Tyler Durden]

everything with you is always about race...:rolleyes:...you trolls really have taken over this place.

OK, let's play Devil's advocate......you ONLY show up here to talk about race :doh: You are absent from other threads, coincidence? :lol: :slap:

[atomicdOGg34]

Wait......what?

So you have to be liberal to give an unbiased opinion on Olberman?

That don't make no sense.

TFK

:laughing:

thats what i was thinking

[PetreTG]

http://jxymxu7sn5ho9d.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/xcaricature-obama-lyin.jpg

:doh:

[phonetap]

classic liberal response

figures

dont have anything to say about the argument, just try and make the person look like a hate monger or racist or because he is a certain way that isnt your way he must be unreasonable

point is, you have no argument

and as for olberman, i used to LOVE him when he was on ESPN, now hes just a clown, passing his show off as "news"

who said anything about a hate monger or racist??? why does it always come down to this with pinheads....thank God america isn't a reflection of this now shit forum....barack wouldn't stand a chance.

btw: there was nothing classic about phonetap's posting, just common sense. you are a conservative so therefore there's a high statistical probability you won't like liberal commentators. duh! with the execption of joe scarborough, phonetap tends to not like conservative commentators...it has nothing to do with race/gender or personal hate...he just don't agree with their politics.

lastly, don't think you fool phonetap for one second...if olbermann's politics were like those of sean hannity, you'd still love him. if you say anything otherwise, you'd be a fucking liar. now go ahead and lie...:laughing: