Fighters who can't really box...

[D MAN]

... but instead use and rely upon physical advantages and/or subversive tactics to effectively win fights.

Example:
John Ruiz


Any others ?

[Tam Tam]

Ricky Hatton

[ILLUMINATI]

Ricardo Mayorga

[Tam Tam]

Roy Jones

[meetthefeebles]

Ricky Hatton

This was the one that first sprang to my mind too, though I remain a fan and I think he is capable of being a better boxer than his recent tactics (since they worked against Tsyzu) of holding and hooking, then looking to hold again...

Hopefully, the exposure of that crap against Floyd may induce a re-think? :dunno:

[meetthefeebles]

Roy Jones

:lol:

[awaits the opening of floodgates to the angry masses]

[Tam Tam]

New tricks for old dogs? I dunno, mate. Sounds like something that doesn't happen too often.

[meetthefeebles]

... but instead use and rely upon physical advantages and/or subversive tactics to effectively win fights.

Example:
John Ruiz


Any others ?

I don't think Bernard will be trying to 'outbox' Joe come April...

Let's just say that gouging, biting, grabbing, butting and groin shots may all a play a part. :doh:

[TFK]

Butterbean.


TFK

[Double L]

i agree that rjj belongs on the list,

hopkins too to some xtent.

in some cases,there's guys who obviously know how to box (hopkins) but resort to stink when th incoming is too punishing or tha hand-speed too great.

zahir raheem is a great example - he doesn't do shit but wrestle.

others:

molina

feliciano

cunningham

[Joe King]

David Tua-advantages big power and solid chin

disadvantages-speed, ability

[Double L]

David Tua-advantages big power and solid chin

disadvantages-speed, ability

tua knows how to box. you just don'y get it. i'm not picking on you, but lots of thingss fly over you head around here. and that is shitty grounds for debate/

[Joe King]

tua knows how to box. you just don'y get it. i'm not picking on you, but lots of thingss fly over you head around here. and that is shitty grounds for debate/

Okay boxing expert. It seems like you are the laughingstock of fightbeat and don't even know it. That will probably fly over your head:lol:

[dsimon3387]

Okay boxing expert. It seems like you are the laughingstock of fightbeat and don't even know it. That will probably fly over your head:lol:

dsimon writes:

Double L is often drunk, insolent and contrary but knows boxing

You are a bit slow due to the effects of hyperreligiosity on the brain.

:lol: :lol: But this board would not be complete with either of you characters missing!

[Joe King]

dsimon writes:

Double L is often drunk, insolent and contrary but knows boxing

You are a bit slow due to the effects of hyperreligiosity on the brain.

:lol: :lol: But this board would not be complete with either of you characters missing!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Just because you randomly throw out names of fighters from the past, doesn't make you knowledgable.:rolleyes:

[dsimon3387]

dsimon writes:

Hopkins is a rough fighter he is not a dirty fighter. He fights in close and personal and now-a-days guys don't like that to which I say, too bad, its part of the game and in virtually ever era but the present if one did not know how to fight inside they would be at a major disadvantage. Its the way that somoene like La Motta could neutralie the likes of SRR.

Jones and Ali were both so talented naturally that their actual use of conventional boxing technique at times seemed(s) lacking, thats an interesting and true perspective.

My favorite non boxing specialist is Carlos Maussa. He throws punches from virtually every angle but the correct one! :lol: Daniel Ponce is another one. And lets not forget Jermaine. :lol:

[KaukipRrr]

Margarito aint the best boxer, he's just a raw, tough, energetic son of a bitch, who can throw punches from unorthadox angles and retain good power on them, the man must have shoulder sockets of iron, he's also cute.

[mikE]

Quartey
Ding a ling
james butler
darchinyan

[Hut*Hut]

lol....world champion boxers who can't box? These guys listed would beat any man here blindfolded, one hand tied behind their back and with a 30 ounce foxy boxing glove on.:lol:

[Ugotabe Kidding]

This is silly. The sport is boxing, the guys who win boxing matches are the ones who can box.

This thread should read "Fighters who box different from a boxing text book of 1950s and still win their fights somehow"

[REEDsART]

This is silly. The sport is boxing, the guys who win boxing matches are the ones who can box.

This thread should read "Fighters who box different from a boxing text book of 1950s and still win their fights somehow"Totally agREED...

To even SUGGEST that Roy Jones Jr. CAN'T "Box" is ABSURD...


REED:rolleyes:

[Ugotabe Kidding]

Totally agREED...

To even SUGGEST that Roy Jones Jr. CAN'T "Box" is ABSURD...


REED:rolleyes:

Word. He "couldn't box" because he didn't jab very often, crossed his legs when he moved and punched from weird angles. Apparently the fact that he outboxed pretty much everybody with great ease doesn't count then..

[meetthefeebles]

dsimon writes:

Hopkins is a rough fighter he is not a dirty fighter. He fights in close and personal and now-a-days guys don't like that to which I say, too bad, its part of the game and in virtually ever era but the present if one did not know how to fight inside they would be at a major disadvantage. Its the way that somoene like La Motta could neutralie the likes of SRR.

Jones and Ali were both so talented naturally that their actual use of conventional boxing technique at times seemed(s) lacking, thats an interesting and true perspective.

My favorite non boxing specialist is Carlos Maussa. He throws punches from virtually every angle but the correct one! :lol: Daniel Ponce is another one. And lets not forget Jermaine. :lol:

:lol: @ 'hyperreligousity' btw

I have to take issue with your take on Bernard. Bernard IS most certainly a dirty lil bastard, and no mistake. And I have very little doubt in my mind whatsoever that his fight with Joe in April will bear testament to this.

Bernard will resort to every trick in the book to try and scrape past Calzaghe.

I DO agree, however, that this is all part of the fight game. Low blows, dirty in-fighting etc should be taught to any young boxer learning the trade by any coach worth a light.

[meetthefeebles]

This is silly. The sport is boxing, the guys who win boxing matches are the ones who can box.

This thread should read "Fighters who box different from a boxing text book of 1950s and still win their fights somehow"

Roughly agreed.

[meetthefeebles]

lol....world champion boxers who can't box? These guys listed would beat any man here blindfolded, one hand tied behind their back and with a 30 ounce foxy boxing glove on.:lol:

You know what he meant... :nono:

Friggin' pedant :lol:

[mikE]

lol....world champion boxers who can't box? These guys listed would beat any man here blindfolded, one hand tied behind their back and with a 30 ounce foxy boxing glove on.:lol:

The OP acknowledges that we are talking about winners.

Listing a world champ is going to be arguable, for sure, but I put Quartey on the list because I could take a 7 year old girl and have her recognizably mimic his style in 15 minutes. The reason his style works is because of his physical prowess, not because it is 'boxing.'

[REEDsART]

The OP acknowledges that we are talking about winners.

Listing a world champ is going to be arguable, for sure, but I put Quartey on the list because I could take a 7 year old girl and have her recognizably mimic his style in 15 minutes. The reason his style works is because of his physical prowess, not because it is 'boxing.'That's where this Arguement Gets TRICKED UP N REED's Opinion...

On 1 Hand, Some would Tell U that Quartey is the PICTURE of "Basic BOXING"...Similar to Pavlik, Quartey was a "1-2" Guy...Though he DIDN'T Fire his Right Hand quite as FREQUENTLY as Pavlik Does...

Nonetheless, the JAB is "Boxing's" Most BASIC Punch & Quartey All but MASTERED it...

On the Flipside, Roy Jones RARELY Used a Jab & this is Held AGAINST his So Called "Boxing" Ability...

This Particular Debate is about as FLIMSY as the "Linear" Argument...


REED:cool:

[LOK]

Chuck Lidell

[whiskey]

Thomas Hearns

[LOK]

henry akinwande

[mikE]

henry akinwande

Pernell Whitaker.

[LOK]

Pernell Whitaker.

:eeeek:

Mike old friend.. are you smoking drugs?

[D MAN]

tua knows how to box. you just don'y get it. i'm not picking on you, but lots of thingss fly over you head around here. and that is shitty grounds for debate/

I completely agree

David Tua is actually a very good boxer. He has major height and reach disadvantages against most heavyweights, but his power, chin AND boxing are enough to still keep him up there. He outboxed Ibeabuchi :lol:

[D MAN]

Quartey
Ding a ling
james butler
darchinyan

Quartey is a damn good boxer. What "tactics" does he use that make him win fights ?!?!

[D MAN]

Word. He "couldn't box" because he didn't jab very often, crossed his legs when he moved and punched from weird angles. Apparently the fact that he outboxed pretty much everybody with great ease doesn't count then..

This thread isn't about great boxers like Roy Jones and Ali.

It's about guys who can't box.

[mikE]

:eeeek:

Mike old friend.. are you smoking drugs?

I didn't like Akinwande being named. He boxes. :lol:

[D MAN]

I nominate Wlad Klitchscko. His boxing is horrible! Reach is pretty much his defining quality.

[mikE]

Quartey is a damn good boxer. What "tactics" does he use that make him win fights ?!?!

Your rules, not mine.

"but instead use and rely upon physical advantages and/or subversive tactics to effectively win fights."

Quartey's style only works because of his physical advantage of being the strongest welter in his era and many others.

[mikE]

I nominate Wlad Klitchscko. His boxing is horrible! Reach is pretty much his defining quality.

If you've only seen him fight Sultan, you might be on to something. If you've seen his 50 other fights...nope.

[D MAN]

Let me clarify.

By "physical advantages" I don't mean having a piston jab, or great upper body movement, or other things that all time boxing greats often possess. I mean like have major size advantages. Either at heavy, or guys that starve themselves to fight a couple divisions lower than where they should be. Look at a guy like Paul Williams, his boxing sucks.. but he's like a 6' 5" welterwight or something and is top 10.

And by subversive tactics I mean hugging, holding, slapping, fighting like a bitch, figuring out ways to win a fight doing things other than punching, etc..

[D MAN]

If you've only seen him fight Sultan, you might be on to something. If you've seen his 50 other fights...nope.

I've seen probably his last 20 fights. I've never seen him box well. He keeps his opponents outside with his long arms... and... that's about it... eventually many of his opponents mentally capitulate and expose their head to a right hand so that they can go home and collect their check. I've never seen Wlad in a boxing match, with any sort of back and forth action. I've never seen him counter punch, or fight with any sort of urgency or fluidity. Wlad minus 3 inches equlas a bum getting KTFO'd every second fight.

[LOK]

I didn't like Akinwande being named. He boxes. :lol:

lol.. he is like an octopus with his long arms hugging Lennox in their fight

[Ugotabe Kidding]

So let e get this straight. If a fighter is succesful because he has natural born attrbutes (such as reach, size, strength etc) he qualifies as a bad boxer.

However, if a fighter is succesful because he has other natural born attributes (such as speed, athletics, reactions, punching power) he is a great boxer.

Great thread :clap:

[D MAN]

So let e get this straight. If a fighter is succesful because he has natural born attrbutes (such as reach, size, strength etc) he qualifies as a bad boxer.

However, if a fighter is succesful because he has other natural born attributes (such as speed, athletics, reactions, punching power) he is a great boxer.

Great thread :clap:

No

If a fighter looks like complete shit then he's a bad boxer/ regardless of whether or not he's successful, big, small, fast, or slow. Some fighters manage to do this yet still win.

There are big strong guys that can box well. Lewis, Briggs, Liakhovich, even Valuev, are good boxers. Some of them are very succesful but not all of them.

Guys like Zab Judah, Floyd Mayweather, Roy Jones, Bojado, are good boxers with speed and reflexes. Again some are very succesful but not all of them.

Klitchsko, Ruiz, Williams, Hatton, Tarver, guys like THAT, look like shit, are shitty boxers. But for reasons discussed, win fights.

[Ugotabe Kidding]

No

If a fighter looks like complete shit then he's a bad boxer/ regardless of whether or not he's successful. Some fighters manage to do this yet still win.

There are big strong guys that can box well. Lewis, Briggs, Liakhovich, even Valuev, are good boxers. Some of them are very succesful but not all of them.

Guys like Zab Judah, Floyd Mayweather, Roy Jones, Bojado, are good boxers with speed and reflexes. Again some are very succesful but not all of them.

Klitchsko, Ruiz, Williams, Hatton, Tarver, guys like THAT, look like shit, are shitty boxers. But for reasons discussed, win fights.

Klitschko and Tarver are bad boxers, Valuev and Briggs are good?

Sorry, there is no logic here

[D MAN]

Klitschko and Tarver are bad boxers, Valuev and Briggs are good?

Sorry, there is no logic here

Yes

I think both Valuev and Briggs have better boxing ability than Klitschko or Tarver.

[meetthefeebles]

Yes

I think both Valuev and Briggs have better boxing ability than Klitschko or Tarver.

Wow :eek:

Do you watch boxing at all? I just can't rationalise that sort of statement... :dunno:

[REEDsART]

Yes

I think both Valuev and Briggs have better boxing ability than Klitschko or Tarver.:doh:

Why???...WHY???...


REED:doh: :doh:

[LOK]

Klitschko and Tarver are bad boxers, Valuev and Briggs are good?

Sorry, there is no logic here

ugotabe.. normally I think you are kinda a wacked out bitch boy but on this day I have to agree...

to say Klit and Tarver can't box but Valu city and Briggs can is really absurd

[LOK]

Yes

I think both Valuev and Briggs have better boxing ability than Klitschko or Tarver.

this is one of the most absurd things I've read here in a while.. and that is saying A LOT

[joony]

i agree that rjj belongs on the list,

hopkins too to some xtent.

in some cases,there's guys who obviously know how to box (hopkins) but resort to stink when th incoming is too punishing or tha hand-speed too great.

zahir raheem is a great example - he doesn't do shit but wrestle.

others:

molina

feliciano

cunningham

how many cunningham fights have you seen besides the one vs kelvin davis?

[Ugotabe Kidding]

ugotabe.. normally I think you are kinda a wacked out bitch boy but on this day I have to agree...

to say Klit and Tarver can't box but Valu city and Briggs can is really absurd

The ore you learn about boxing, the more you will find yourself agreeing with me :clap:

:cheer:

[LOK]

The ore you learn about boxing, the more you will find yourself agreeing with me :clap:

:cheer:


lol

I was going to boxing gyms when you were in diapers baby boy..

:lol:

also.. I think you meant "more" you wrote "ore" you might gotta go back to ESOL 101 baby

[D MAN]

:doh:

Why???...WHY???...


REED:doh: :doh:

I can't explain it.. that's just what I think.. they are so much more fluid and than those 2 drones.

[Breeze]

Quartey
Ding a ling
james butler
darchinyan

Agree with all of your list but Quartey. Quartey can box. He has an excellent jab and can counter. I don't think he relies on underhanded tactics to win fights.

I've also seen the names of Hopkins and Jones being added erroneously. Jones can box and as far as Hopkins goes, he is a master boxer, one the best technical fighters of this generation IMO.

[Bob N. Weave]

I can't explain it.. that's just what I think.. they are so much more fluid and than those 2 drones.

Makes no sense.

[D MAN]

Makes no sense.

Watch some tapes of them and maybe you'll figure it out.

[steve_dave]

Yes

I think both Valuev and Briggs have better boxing ability than Klitschko or Tarver.

:lol: Wlad and Tarver both won medals at the Olympics. They both know how to box a little bit.

[Erratic]

Edwin Valero
Ponce De Leon

[REEDsART]

:lol: Wlad and Tarver both won medals at the Olympics. They both know how to box a little bit.Apparently NOT:nono: ...


REED:cool:

[valdosta]

Agree with all of your list but Quartey. Quartey can box. He has an excellent jab and can counter. I don't think he relies on underhanded tactics to win fights.

I've also seen the names of Hopkins and Jones being added erroneously. Jones can box and as far as Hopkins goes, he is a master boxer, one the best technical fighters of this generation IMO.

Hopkins is probably mentioned because of his dirty,mauling tactics.

[D MAN]

:lol: Wlad and Tarver both won medals at the Olympics. They both know how to box a little bit.

That was uncalled for.

[meetthefeebles]

Hopkins is probably mentioned because of his dirty,mauling tactics.

Absolutely. I mentioned him for that exact reason.

Obviously, there has to be a context. Hops is a great boxer/fighter, but he is no RJJ/Ali/Floyd/SRR in his methods. He IS a dirty, gritty SOB. That's where I thought this thread was going...

[D MAN]

Absolutely. I mentioned him for that exact reason.

Obviously, there has to be a context. Hops is a great boxer/fighter, but he is no RJJ/Ali/Floyd/SRR in his methods. He IS a dirty, gritty SOB. That's where I thought this thread was going...

No this thread is about fighters who can't box. Hopkins can box well but fights dirty because he enjoys it.

[LATIN KING]

Definately Darchynian. I don't even know what you call his style. The guy looks like a crab moving across the ring. Aside from power he doesn't have a lick of skill. :dunno:

[Tyler Durden]

Someone needs to make a thread in TAAA about NFL players that don't know how to play football, that would be great.

[Hut*Hut]

The OP acknowledges that we are talking about winners.

Listing a world champ is going to be arguable, for sure, but I put Quartey on the list because I could take a 7 year old girl and have her recognizably mimic his style in 15 minutes. The reason his style works is because of his physical prowess, not because it is 'boxing.'

believe me you couldn't. Talk about a complete failure to understand the subtelties of what goes on in a boxing ring. It's disapointing actually that even major boxing fans have so little respect for the craft of the sport that they think these guys are just brawn. The rudiments of Ike's style are very simple, just like everything somebody like Henrik Larsson does on a football pitch is simple but to put it all together with the composure, positional sense and timing needed to compete at world class? That takes years to learn and a rare talent.

[LOK]

Someone needs to make a thread in TAAA about NFL players that don't know how to play football, that would be great.

:lol: