View Full Version : Roy Jones was Great, BUT....
REEDsART
02-28-2008, 02:02 PM
Why is there Almost ALWAYS a "BUT" when Naysayers Discuss Roy Jones Jr.????:dunno: ...
Even his Staunchest Critics R FORCED N 2 Complimenting him (Somewhat), but that Compliment ALWAYS Contains a Caveat...
"Yeah, he had Fast Hands, BUT...Yeah, he Could Punch a Little Bit, BUT...Yeah, he Moved up from Jr. Middle to Heavy, BUT...Yeah, he RARELY Lost Rounds N his Prime, BUT...Yeah, he's the Most TALENTED Fighter I've Ever Seen, BUT..."
More than ANY Fighter, Roy Jones' Resume, Abilities & Accomplishments R DISSECTED...What RJ Naysayers FAIL to Realize is that ANY Fighter can B NITPICKED N this Same Regard...But RARELY Do the RJ Naysayers Apply the SAME Level of Criticism & Analysis to THEIR Faves (U KNOW Who U R)...
He's the ONLY Fighter N History that Required 16 Years to FINALLY Get "Exposed":lol: ...
What's the Deal w/the "BUTS" @ the End of Most RJ Compliments???...
REED:dunno:
Streetfighter
02-28-2008, 02:11 PM
"He's the ONLY Fighter N History that Required 16 Years to FINALLY Get "Exposed":lol: ...
"
That is a great line.
BUT.....he was knocked the fuck out by Tarver and looked like a punching bag against Johnson.
Streetfighter
02-28-2008, 02:24 PM
BUT.....he was knocked the fuck out by Tarver and looked like a punching bag against Johnson.
Look at how old he looked when he deflated from hw. he looked like an old man. You could see he physically had changed and was a different fighter.
Woods fight image-http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/1385374.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26c%3DViewImages%26k%3D2%26d%3 D17A4AD9FDB9CF1939057D9939C83F1065DB0B002167101175 A5397277B4DC33E&imgrefurl=http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx%3Fmid%3D1385374%26epmid%3D2%26partner% 3DGoogle&h=397&w=594&sz=44&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=zO46QcnfeuZEhM:&tbnh=&tbnw=&prev=/images%3Fq%3Droy%2Bjones%2Bvs%2Bclinton%2Bwoods%26 um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
Tarver- http://www.thesweetscience.com/images/11352/jones_vs_tarver001_240x230_20071019.jpg
Looks like a totally different person
REEDsART
02-28-2008, 02:25 PM
BUT.....he was knocked the fuck out by Tarver and looked like a punching bag against Johnson.AND???:dunno: ...
So Go Ahead & Place Roy Jones N the Looooooooooooong Line of GREAT Fighters who were Made to Look BAD @ the Tail End of their Careers...What was he, 35 when that Happened???...
Roy DOES have a WIN Over Tarver, by the Way..."Ya'll Musta Forgot"...
REED:cool:
Ugotabe Kidding
02-28-2008, 02:26 PM
WFT, seriously?
"But" means that you are comparing the fighter to others and nobody is perfect. SRR was perhaps the greatest ever BUT he lost to many guys at middleweight. Ali was great BUT he won many questionable decision. Joe Louis was great BUT his opposition wasn't. ANd so on
There is not difference here. In fact, if you read my gallup thread you will see that most people (including me) picked Jones as the most talented fighter ever. To me, that is a compliment. However, if you don't agree on that he is also the greatest fighter ever, you have to insert "BUT" somewhere there
You are seeing ghosts again, BUT it happens
ElTerriblee
02-28-2008, 02:30 PM
Look at how old he looked when he deflated from hw. he looked like an old man. You could see he physically had changed and was a different fighter.
I wonder what happened with Roid..ahm ahm Roy there.BUT shockingly he´s now making 170 easily. :lol:
REEDsART
02-28-2008, 02:39 PM
I wonder what happened with Roid..ahm ahm Roy there.BUT shockingly he´s now making 170 easily. :lol:It was About HOW MUCH Weight he Took Off AND the TIME FRAME N Which he Did it...
Roy KEPT his Weight CLOSE to Heavy, as he Negotiated w/Holyfield for SEVERAL Months...
When that Fight FAILED To Materialize, Roy STILL had a PPV Date to Fulfill w/HBO & He Ended Up Facing Tarver @ 175, Instead of Holyfield...
The FACT is, Roy Jones CUT about 25 Lbs of MUSCLE N about 5 Weeks...
REED:cool:
It was About HOW MUCH Weight he Took Off AND the TIME FRAME N Which he Did it...
Roy KEPT his Weight CLOSE to Heavy, as he Negotiated w/Holyfield for SEVERAL Months...
When that Fight FAILED To Materialize, Roy STILL had a PPV Date to Fulfill w/HBO & He Ended Up Facing Tarver @ 175, Instead of Holyfield...
The FACT is, Roy Jones CUT about 25 Lbs of MUSCLE N about 5 Weeks...
REED:cool:
brother REED, what these clowns do not realize is that is ridiculous.. to take off 25lbs when you are already SHREDDED and do it in 5 weeks and have a title fight???? it is crazy that he could even do it!
It was About HOW MUCH Weight he Took Off AND the TIME FRAME N Which he Did it...
Roy KEPT his Weight CLOSE to Heavy, as he Negotiated w/Holyfield for SEVERAL Months...
When that Fight FAILED To Materialize, Roy STILL had a PPV Date to Fulfill w/HBO & He Ended Up Facing Tarver @ 175, Instead of Holyfield...
The FACT is, Roy Jones CUT about 25 Lbs of MUSCLE N about 5 Weeks...
REED:cool:
He won the first Tarver fight though so this really isn't helping your case. Explain the second Tarver fight which happened 6 months later and the Johnson fight which happened 4 months after that.
Surely 6 months is enough time to properly drop the weight no?
Streetfighter
02-28-2008, 06:03 PM
He won the first Tarver fight though so this really isn't helping your case. Explain the second Tarver fight which happened 6 months later and the Johnson fight which happened 4 months after that.
Surely 6 months is enough time to properly drop the weight no?
he got old.
cupey alto
02-28-2008, 06:16 PM
Tito schooled him and then got robbed. End of story.
Cupey
Trplsec
02-28-2008, 08:02 PM
Why is there Almost ALWAYS a "BUT" when Naysayers Discuss Roy Jones Jr.????:dunno: ...
Even his Staunchest Critics R FORCED N 2 Complimenting him (Somewhat), but that Compliment ALWAYS Contains a Caveat...
"Yeah, he had Fast Hands, BUT...Yeah, he Could Punch a Little Bit, BUT...Yeah, he Moved up from Jr. Middle to Heavy, BUT...Yeah, he RARELY Lost Rounds N his Prime, BUT...Yeah, he's the Most TALENTED Fighter I've Ever Seen, BUT..."
More than ANY Fighter, Roy Jones' Resume, Abilities & Accomplishments R DISSECTED...What RJ Naysayers FAIL to Realize is that ANY Fighter can B NITPICKED N this Same Regard...But RARELY Do the RJ Naysayers Apply the SAME Level of Criticism & Analysis to THEIR Faves (U KNOW Who U R)...
He's the ONLY Fighter N History that Required 16 Years to FINALLY Get "Exposed":lol: ...
What's the Deal w/the "BUTS" @ the End of Most RJ Compliments???...
REED:dunno:
The only "but" that I typically apply to Jones goes like this:
"Sure he won the middleweight title BUT he didn't fight Benn"
"Sure he won the super middle title BUT he didn't fight Eubank"
"Sure he won the lightheavy title BUT he didn't fight Michalczewski"
"Sure he won the heavyweight title BUT he didn't fight Lewis"
The only "but" that I typically apply to Jones goes like this:
"Sure he won the middleweight title BUT he didn't fight Benn"
"Sure he won the super middle title BUT he didn't fight Eubank"
"Sure he won the lightheavy title BUT he didn't fight Michalczewski"
"Sure he won the heavyweight title BUT he didn't fight Lewis"
Benn
Eubank
Michalczewski
Lewis
:lol: that could be a list of the worst fighters to ever hold belts
Joe King
02-28-2008, 10:39 PM
The only "but" that I typically apply to Jones goes like this:
"Sure he won the middleweight title BUT he didn't fight Benn"
"Sure he won the super middle title BUT he didn't fight Eubank"
"Sure he won the lightheavy title BUT he didn't fight Michalczewski"
"Sure he won the heavyweight title BUT he didn't fight Lewis"
Benn didn't fight Hopkins
Eubank didn't fight Toney
Michalzewski didn't fight Jones
Sure, 5'11 Jones didn't fight 6'5 Lennox, and 6'5 240 Lennox didn't fight 5'11 190 Jones
ArturoGatti
02-28-2008, 10:52 PM
he got old.in 6 months? :lol:
I think this "But" business is more used by his fans than his detractors.
"Yeahm sure he got knocked the fuck out by Tarver, BUT..."
ArturoGatti
02-28-2008, 10:53 PM
"Yeah, sure he should have fought Michalcewski, BUT..."
meetthefeebles
02-28-2008, 11:08 PM
Benn
Eubank
Michalczewski
Lewis
:lol: that could be a list of the worst fighters to ever hold belts
Go have a word with yourself. :nono:
Benn near KILLED your all-American hero G-Man in one of the most brutal, engaging and challenging WARS ever seen in a boxing ring. To downplay that fight is to disrespect the whole of boxing, IMO. That fight encapsulated everyone GREAT and ultimately terrible about this fantastic sport.
And Lewis is a top 5 all time HW. In everyone's mind bar yours, anyway... :laughing:
ILLUMINATI
02-28-2008, 11:08 PM
"Yeah, sure he should have fought Michalcewski, BUT..."
..MichalSHITsky was toooo much of a bitch and ran back to Germany or Poland..or whatever...
REEDsART
02-28-2008, 11:10 PM
in 6 months? :lol:
I think this "But" business is more used by his fans than his detractors.
"Yeahm sure he got knocked the fuck out by Tarver, BUT..."PLENTY Of All Time Great Fighters have been KO'ed...
REED:rolleyes:
REEDsART
02-28-2008, 11:11 PM
"Yeah, sure he should have fought Michalcewski, BUT..."U Say this as if MichalSHITski Actually WANTED to Fight Roy Jones....
REED:lol:
ArturoGatti
02-28-2008, 11:13 PM
PLENTY Of All Time Great Fighters have been KO'ed...
REED:rolleyes:yes, of course, and there is no shame in that. My point was, why can't his fans just say that he was the lesser fighter that night, why are there always excuses.
meetthefeebles
02-28-2008, 11:13 PM
Why is there Almost ALWAYS a "BUT" when Naysayers Discuss Roy Jones Jr.????:dunno: ...
Even his Staunchest Critics R FORCED N 2 Complimenting him (Somewhat), but that Compliment ALWAYS Contains a Caveat...
"Yeah, he had Fast Hands, BUT...Yeah, he Could Punch a Little Bit, BUT...Yeah, he Moved up from Jr. Middle to Heavy, BUT...Yeah, he RARELY Lost Rounds N his Prime, BUT...Yeah, he's the Most TALENTED Fighter I've Ever Seen, BUT..."
More than ANY Fighter, Roy Jones' Resume, Abilities & Accomplishments R DISSECTED...What RJ Naysayers FAIL to Realize is that ANY Fighter can B NITPICKED N this Same Regard...But RARELY Do the RJ Naysayers Apply the SAME Level of Criticism & Analysis to THEIR Faves (U KNOW Who U R)...
He's the ONLY Fighter N History that Required 16 Years to FINALLY Get "Exposed":lol: ...
What's the Deal w/the "BUTS" @ the End of Most RJ Compliments???...
REED:dunno:
Because boxing is the way it is, there will always be points to potentially 'nit-pick' for anyone who tries to find them.
Fact.
With Jones, they are usually coming from haters. I mean, Nigel Benn is my favourite fighter EVER, but I can't honestly say I'd pick him to beat Roy at 168. Especially at 168. BUT, because he never fought him, the point is always left open to conjecture for people to pick upon.
That said REED, I do agree that you are seeing ghosts when there are none here. Anyone with half an ounce of boxing knowledge KNOWS that RJJ was one of the very best.
End of argument...
ArturoGatti
02-28-2008, 11:14 PM
Benn
Eubank
Michalczewski
Lewis
:lol: that could be a list of the worst fighters to ever hold beltsLOK, you know I love you, but only a person that is clueless about boxing could say something like that. All of those guys were either very good, or great (Lewis).
ArturoGatti
02-28-2008, 11:15 PM
U Say this as if MichalSHITski Actually WANTED to Fight Roy Jones....
REED:lol:this is exactly my point. :lol:
The Genius
02-29-2008, 02:36 AM
He won the first Tarver fight though so this really isn't helping your case. Explain the second Tarver fight which happened 6 months later and the Johnson fight which happened 4 months after that.
Surely 6 months is enough time to properly drop the weight no?
Roy looked like shit before, during and after the Tarver fight. He won but he clearly wasn't the 175lb Roy we'd seen before the Ruiz fight.
6 months later, he got caught with a good punch and wasn't steady enough to answer the ten.
4 months after that, a gunshy Roy got KO'd after fighting scared most of the fight.
It's pretty clear that Roy lost alot coming back down from HW. Couple that with age, his own lack of confidence in his chin and his usual lack of killer instinct you have the Roy of today.
No excuses. He's a great fighter that hurt himself moving around in weight late in his career. Bad enough that he gained the muscle mass to make HW but then to shed it in the short time frame he did? Not good for anyone.
Ron King 702
02-29-2008, 04:14 AM
but he didnt have any other superstars to fight during his prime so he will never be mentioned in the same breath as a Leonard or Hearns.
He never gave us an epic to rewatch over and over that demonstrated his courage. He never showed the ability to save himself from the brink of destruction a la JCC. He never produced a spectacular win in a mega-bout. The list goes on and on.
LOK, you know I love you, but only a person that is clueless about boxing could say something like that. All of those guys were either very good, or great (Lewis).
:eeeek: :doh:
Go have a word with yourself. :nono:
Benn near KILLED your all-American hero G-Man in one of the most brutal, engaging and challenging WARS ever seen in a boxing ring. To downplay that fight is to disrespect the whole of boxing, IMO. That fight encapsulated everyone GREAT and ultimately terrible about this fantastic sport.
And Lewis is a top 5 all time HW. In everyone's mind bar yours, anyway... :laughing:
Not in my mind...and why didnt Jones fight the guy who finished Benn the great Steve Collins...:stir:
Ugotabe Kidding
02-29-2008, 10:41 AM
:eeeek: :doh:
The sooner you admiit that you were completely incorrect in your fantasies about Lennox, the better. He was not a British glass-chinned snaker swallower as you hoped for but an all-time great heavyweight
Mean Mr Mustard
02-29-2008, 10:45 AM
The sooner you admiit that you were completely incorrect in your fantasies about Lennox, the better. He was not a British glass-chinned snaker swallower as you hoped for but an all-time great heavyweightLewis was a monster.
No question if they'd met, he'd have done Bowe in under 6 rounds.
The Cuban Hawk
03-01-2008, 08:57 PM
PLENTY Of All Time Great Fighters have been KO'ed...
But NONE have been ruined by a single KO punch. :nono:
royyjonesjrp4pno1
03-01-2008, 08:59 PM
But NONE have been ruined by a single KO punch. :nono:A loss is a loss :dunno:
meetthefeebles
03-01-2008, 09:28 PM
But NONE have been ruined by a single KO punch. :nono:
Lewis got 'ruined' by a single punch? I thought he rematched both his 'conquerors' and beat both? Some ruination...
The Genius
03-01-2008, 09:36 PM
Lewis got 'ruined' by a single punch? I thought he rematched both his 'conquerors' and beat both? Some ruination...
The problem with the one punch KOs is that it leads people to think that those are the only solid punches the fighter ever took. Absolute shit of course but that is the way it's portrayed. See LL and RJ.
meetthefeebles
03-01-2008, 09:42 PM
The problem with the one punch KOs is that it leads people to think that those are the only solid punches the fighter ever took. Absolute shit of course but that is the way it's portrayed. See LL and RJ.
The phrase you are looking for is 'hater', methinks... :lol:
The Cuban Hawk
03-01-2008, 10:18 PM
Lewis got 'ruined' by a single punch?
Who was talking about Lewis?
royyjonesjrp4pno1
03-01-2008, 10:25 PM
Who was talking about Lewis?Definately not you.
The Cuban Hawk
03-01-2008, 10:27 PM
A loss is a loss :dunno:
Not really, the circumstances and the aftermath make a loss more or less embarassing.
Even so, plenty of fighters have indeed been KO'd, and at the height of their P4P ranking, and even with only a single punch... and yet were still considered arguably great.
It's the fact that Roy was (apparently) RUINED by that one, single punch that hurts his claims to greatness so much.
Joe King
03-01-2008, 11:14 PM
It's the fact that Roy was (apparently) RUINED by that one, single punch that hurts his claims to greatness so much.
Only if you are looking for reasons to hate on him, which you are and have been for 20 years.
The Cuban Hawk
03-01-2008, 11:34 PM
Only if you are looking for reasons to hate on him, which you are and have been for 20 years.
No, not "only".
An impartial person who simply judges Roy by the same standards that have been used to judge evey other fighter since the dawn of time, will come to the same conclusion.
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