Had Naz declined

[Hut*Hut]

I want to gauge opinion on this....do you think Hamed was at his best when he fought Barrera?

Forget the notion of 'physical prime' & age, forget whether you think it would have made much difference either way, and forget how overrated or otherwise you think he was going into that fight. Just (bearing in mind how shit he looked against both Sanchez and Calvo)...

Was Naz on the downslide (for whatever reason) when he met Barrera? Yes or no will do.

[lb 4 lb]

The guy just was never that good. Was he on the downside when Kevin Kelley dropped him 3 or 4 times? He looked great in England beating up C-level fighters and that built up an incredible overrated standard that he was able to maintain by fighting mediocre fighters and has beens when he came to america.

To answer the question though, no I don't think he was at his best because he had already left Ingle and was probably not as hungry as he had been. Doesn't matter though, MAB would beat him 10 out of 10 times at any point in Hamed's career.

[mexican wedding shirt]

The guy just was never that good. Was he on the downside when Kevin Kelley dropped him 3 or 4 times? He looked great in England beating up C-level fighters and that built up an incredible overrated standard that he was able to maintain by fighting mediocre fighters and has beens when he came to america.

To answer the question though, no I don't think he was at his best because he had already left Ingle and was probably not as hungry as he had been. Doesn't matter though, MAB would beat him 10 out of 10 times at any point in Hamed's career.

Yes, spot on.

[steve_dave]

Hamed was at least two years past his peak as a top boxer when he fought MAB. I should also point out that he won four rounds that night.

[Hut*Hut]

The guy just was never that good. Was he on the downside when Kevin Kelley dropped him 3 or 4 times? He looked great in England beating up C-level fighters and that built up an incredible overrated standard that he was able to maintain by fighting mediocre fighters and has beens when he came to america.

To answer the question though, no I don't think he was at his best because he had already left Ingle and was probably not as hungry as he had been. Doesn't matter though, MAB would beat him 10 out of 10 times at any point in Hamed's career.

Fair enough lb 4 lb. :bears:

[Mean Mr Mustard]

No - he was physically and technically at his absolute peak at 126lb.

The reason he looked like he was becoming sloppy and lazy was that he'd started to up his profile and fight guys who weren't as shit or shot as his opponents between 1995-1998.

Kevin Kelley was simply the point where the wheels started to fall off the bandwagon - nothing to do with being 'past prime'...he just got in against a guy who could hit back.
Look what the Hamed camp did following that fight - panicked:
Vazquez - old and shot
McCullough - 122lb'er who can't punch
Ingle - walk-forward pressure-fighting drongo
Soto - good matchup but WTF did Soto turn up for?
Bungu - 122lb'er with nothing left
Sanchez - BUM
Barrera - Game Over.

You watch any of the above fights and Hamed's reflexes and power were jist the same as they were against guys like Alicea, Medina, Johnson - all these guys managed to tag Hamed as cleanly as the guys in bold type, above, but just 2 years earlier....

[Hut*Hut]

No - he was physically and technically at his absolute peak at 126lb.

The reason he looked like he was becoming sloppy and lazy was that he'd started to up his profile and fight guys who weren't as shit or shot as his opponents between 1995-1998.

So IYO, Sanchez and Calvo are better than Kelly, Johnson, Medina, Ingle, etc.?

[Mean Mr Mustard]

So IYO, Sanchez and Calvo are better than Kelly, Johnson, Medina, Ingle, etc.?My guess is that Hamed didn't even train for Sanchez.

The Calvo fight I haven't even watched.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Also, remember at this time (1997-99) the boxing hardcore were screaming for Hamed to face guys like Juan Manuel Marquez, Freddie Norwood, Hector Lizarraga, Junior Jones, Kennedy McKinney, Luistio Espinosa and for some weird reason, Istvan Kovacs. :dunno:

I'd rather have seen Hamed face any 4 of them rather than the guys he fought following the Tom Johnson fight...as it is, Alicea dropped him, Medina tagged him a few times and Johnson gave him a few moments and from then on, Hamed Team and Warren protected him as best and smartly as possible.

[Hut*Hut]

My guess is that Hamed didn't even train for Sanchez.

The Calvo fight I haven't even watched.

yeah...he hardly trained for Barrera either. So you do agree he'd declined?

[Hut*Hut]

Also, remember at this time (1997-99) the boxing hardcore were screaming for Hamed to face guys like Juan Manuel Marquez, Freddie Norwood, Hector Lizarraga, Junior Jones, Kennedy McKinney, Luistio Espinosa and for some weird reason, Istvan Kovacs. :dunno:

I'd rather have seen Hamed face any 4 of them rather than the guys he fought following the Tom Johnson fight...as it is, Alicea dropped him, Medina tagged him a few times and Johnson gave him a few moments and from then on, Hamed Team and Warren protected him as best and smartly as possible.


no doubt. i agree with every word. He was protected as fuck and the first time he fought an A class guy he lost. thats indisputable. My only point is that he was at his best allot better than the Barrera fight showed and Naz circa 97,98 would have given him a far harder fight.

[lb 4 lb]

No - he was physically and technically at his absolute peak at 126lb.

The reason he looked like he was becoming sloppy and lazy was that he'd started to up his profile and fight guys who weren't as shit or shot as his opponents between 1995-1998.

Kevin Kelley was simply the point where the wheels started to fall off the bandwagon - nothing to do with being 'past prime'...he just got in against a guy who could hit back.
Look what the Hamed camp did following that fight - panicked:
Vazquez - old and shot
McCullough - 122lb'er who can't punch
Ingle - walk-forward pressure-fighting drongo
Soto - good matchup but WTF did Soto turn up for?
Bungu - 122lb'er with nothing left
Sanchez - BUM
Barrera - Game Over.

You watch any of the above fights and Hamed's reflexes and power were jist the same as they were against guys like Alicea, Medina, Johnson - all these guys managed to tag Hamed as cleanly as the guys in bold type, above, but just 2 years earlier....How could he be past his prime or people fall off the bandwagon when the Kelly fight was his first fight in america? Of course he wasn't past his prime then, hell his career was just at the point of really taking off then.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

How could he be past his prime or people fall off the bandwagon when the Kelly fight was his first fight in america? Of course he wasn't past his prime then, hell his career was just at the point of really taking off then.I didn't say he was.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

yeah...he hardly trained for Barrera either. So you do agree he'd declined?No - not declined - just didn't train properly - thought he could just walk through Barrera after the first Barerra - Morales war...

[Hut*Hut]

No - not declined - just didn't train properly - thought he could just walk through Barrera after the first Barerra - Morales war...

if a guy stops training properly he declines.

[bigdawg]

Also, remember at this time (1997-99) the boxing hardcore were screaming for Hamed to face guys like Juan Manuel Marquez, Freddie Norwood, Hector Lizarraga, Junior Jones, Kennedy McKinney, Luistio Espinosa and for some weird reason, Istvan Kovacs. :dunno:

I'd rather have seen Hamed face any 4 of them rather than the guys he fought following the Tom Johnson fight...as it is, Alicea dropped him, Medina tagged him a few times and Johnson gave him a few moments and from then on, Hamed Team and Warren protected him as best and smartly as possible.



Don't forget PBF said that he would fight Naz at a catchweight as well. However after reviewing the resume that was listed for Naz PBF might have had a right to complain about the contract HBO gave him. I mean the dude built his resume up on bums. I'll Holla 5000

[Caligula II]

No - he was physically and technically at his absolute peak at 126lb.

The reason he looked like he was becoming sloppy and lazy was that he'd started to up his profile and fight guys who weren't as shit or shot as his opponents between 1995-1998.

Kevin Kelley was simply the point where the wheels started to fall off the bandwagon - nothing to do with being 'past prime'...he just got in against a guy who could hit back.
Look what the Hamed camp did following that fight - panicked:
Vazquez - old and shot
McCullough - 122lb'er who can't punch
Ingle - walk-forward pressure-fighting drongo
Soto - good matchup but WTF did Soto turn up for?
Bungu - 122lb'er with nothing left
Sanchez - BUM
Barrera - Game Over.

You watch any of the above fights and Hamed's reflexes and power were jist the same as they were against guys like Alicea, Medina, Johnson - all these guys managed to tag Hamed as cleanly as the guys in bold type, above, but just 2 years earlier....

EXACTLY!!! Haveeb petitioned the WBO FOUR times to have him bypass his mandatory which was Juan Manuel Marquez. That's unheard of (but now we know why.) Manny Steward has admitted that when he trained Haveeb, Riath was not going to match him with anyone with a remote chance of beating him. HBO approved the fight with KoKo Kovacs and they still backed out of it, first trying to claim that HBO declined, later they stated it just wasn't what the fans wanted (Riath thought Kovacs was too tachnical for Naz and would win a decision). They gave up the WBO belt over that. Paulie Ayala wanted to jump up form 118 to 126 and fight Naz and after Steward informed Riath of Ayala's boxing skills they declined on that as well and went with Augie Sanchez. Steward also said that when HBO gave them a choice between Morales and Barrera, Riath chose Barrera believing he was probably shot by then.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

if a guy stops training properly he declines.Hamed was never a great one for training - back in 1994-95 he didn't even do ANY roadwork.

You can't 'train' reflexes or punching power....

[Mean Mr Mustard]

EXACTLY!!! Haveeb petitioned the WBO FOUR times to have him bypass his mandatory which was Juan Manuel Marquez. That's unheard of (but now we know why.) Manny Steward has admitted that when he trained Haveeb, Riath was not going to match him with anyone with a remote chance of beating him. HBO approved the fight with KoKo Kovacs and they still backed out of it, first trying to claim that HBO declined, later they stated it just wasn't what the fans wanted (Riath thought Kovacs was too tachnical for Naz and would win a decision). They gave up the WBO belt over that. Paulie Ayala wanted to jump up form 118 to 126 and fight Naz and after Steward informed Riath of Ayala's boxing skills they declined on that as well and went with Augie Sanchez. Steward also said that when HBO gave them a choice between Morales and Barrera, Riath chose Barrera believing he was probably shot by then.
Riath was the main scumbag in this setup. Total fucking idiot and hypocrite.


But then, what do you expect from these 'types'? :popcorn:

[Hut*Hut]

Hamed was never a great one for training - back in 1994-95 he didn't even do ANY roadwork.

You can't 'train' reflexes or punching power....

yes you can, you can train both. Certainly reflex' will dissipate through under training. And road work is hardly a prerequisite. He sparred ALLOT. Im talking ALLOT. If boxing A does 100 hours of sparring and boxer B does 100 hours of road work I'll pick boxer B to be in far better fighting condition.

[Erratic]

Yes...he was training under Oscar Suarez which translates to an automatic decline for any fighter.

[LOK]

No - not declined - just didn't train properly - thought he could just walk through Barrera after the first Barerra - Morales war...


I agree..

I think he.. like Mike Tyson.. got to where they thought they could just steam roll people.. he just felt like he'd hit Barrerra and KO him with ease.. I don't think he really trained or took it seriously

[REEDsART]

Prince was SLIGHTLY N Decline Physically (He WASN'T Quite as Mobile as his Earlier Days & he DIDN'T Deliver Punches Quite as SWIFTLY), but his MENTAL Decline was DRASTIC...

The Exorbitant Amount of Money Prince Made DULLED his Edge...DECREASED his Hunger...& 1nce that Happened he Stopped LEARNING, Stopped LISTENING & Stopped TRAINING as Hard as Required...


REED:kidcool:

[LOK]

Prince was SLIGHTLY N Decline Physically (He WASN'T Quite as Mobile as his Earlier Days & he DIDN'T Deliver Punches Quite as SWIFTLY), but his MENTAL Decline was DRASTIC...

The Exorbitant Amount of Money Prince Made DULLED his Edge...DECREASED his Hunger...& 1nce that Happened he Stopped LEARNING, Stopped LISTENING & Stopped TRAINING as Hard as Required...


REED:kidcool:


:bears:

agREED

[BigJohn619]

Yes...he was training under Oscar Suarez which translates to an automatic decline for any fighter.

Exhibit A

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