Margarito or DeLaHoya

[Neil]

I don't give a fuck about who would win at this point, we all know the answer to that. I also could care less what people think about some mythical matchup between the two at their respective peaks.

my question is simple::

did delahoya ever have a single victory in his career as impressive/meaningful as margarito's stoppage of cotto?

if so which one? because I don't think so.

[Haymaker]

To me, Hoya's biggest win was against Quartey. They were both about the same size, and Ike was in his prime. That's the most meaningful, even though is was somewhat of a controversial win, I had Hoya edging the fight by 2 points after the late knockdown.

[Neil]

you failed to answer the question. was his victory over quartey more impressive/meaningful than margarito's win over cotto?

personally I had quartey clearly winning so its not even debatable for me.

[TKO]

The answer is more than likely No. Cotto was suppose to be the man and no body really gave Margarito a chance... Was Dela ever in the same position as Margarito ??

[Neil]

The answer is more than likely No. Cotto was suppose to be the man and no body really gave Margarito a chance... Was Dela ever in the same position as Margarito ??

I'm not taking into account the position margarito was in, or whether he was given a chance. it is a strict comparison between cotto, how he was defeated and each individual opponent delahoya defeated during his career.

[TKO]

Well then are you taking the view that Dela fought certain guys at the right time talking some of the glory from the victories ?

If that is the case you could same the same about Cottos CV.

[Neil]

actually I'm saying I don't think delahoya had a single impressive (decisive) victory over any opponent as good as cotto.

[salaco]

I disagree that Quartey was substantially superior to Cotto, and De la Hoya lost to Trinidad...its debatable but nonetheless an L on his record

[Pascals Wager]

I disagree that Quartey was substantially superior to Cotto, and De la Hoya lost to Trinidad...its debatable but nonetheless an L on his record

Sorry salaco.
I deleted the post you just responded to.
You are absolutely right about Trinidad of course.
I do think that Quartey would have beaten (probably stopped) Cotto, though.

[salaco]

Sorry salaco.
I deleted the post you just responded to.
You are absolutely right about Trinidad of course.
I do think that Quartey would have beaten (probably stopped) Cotto, though.

Ah ok, I never rated Quartey too highly, always flattered to deceive

[joony]

de la hoya was never that great. and no, he's never had one impressive win that matches margarito's win over cotto.

[KaukipRrr]

de la hoya was never that great. and no, he's never had one impressive win that matches margarito's win over cotto.

Ironically, neither has Fraud Mayweather.

[joony]

Ironically, neither has Fraud Mayweather.

not true. mayweather shut down all of his opponents with an exception of oscar and castillo.

he impressively stopped corrales and hatton and beat castillo desicively in the rematch.

and unlike oscar, he never came close to losing or struggling against guys who were smaller than him.

[Neil]

Sorry salaco.
I deleted the post you just responded to.
You are absolutely right about Trinidad of course.
I do think that Quartey would have beaten (probably stopped) Cotto, though.

not sure how anyone could be as impressed by what delahoya did against quartey as what margarito did to cotto.

keep in mind cotto was at the top of his game, fighting regularly, and not struggling to make welterweight.

[KaukipRrr]

not true. mayweather shut down all of his opponents with an exception of oscar and castillo.

he impressively stopped corrales and hatton and beat castillo desicively in the rematch.

and unlike oscar, he never came close to losing or struggling against guys who were smaller than him.

:nono: Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,.. Joony please,..'Impressive' is the word, and there's nothing impressive about running the clock out of each round out, scoring should always be against runners, I certainly don't associate running with 'shutting an opponent down', and that's precisely what Fraud did after being defeated the first time by Castillo, and despite the kind of disgraceful, hyperventilative running we were sorry to witness, the fight wasn't even 'clear' ....it was actually rather close, so surely, Castillo is a name that should be steered away from Mayweather on the subject of 'impressive wins'. -------------Beating Corrales is a feit several share, he's hopelessly glass-chinned, and not a great fighter, infact, he's Casamajors bitch, beating him is obviously nowhere near the achievement of what crushing Miguel Cotto is at welterweight,.. and as far as Hatton's concerned, you are well aware that he's nothing as a welterweight, a non factor, insignificant, he's too small, smaller than Fraud, infact one could say Fraud had a De La Hoya of a time with Hatton,.. so no, it's got nothing on Margarito making Miguel Cotto quit at all, even if Margarito is also guilty of being the bigger man in his fight.

I'd put it this way Joon, Miguel Cotto simply defeats every single opponent on Fraud's resume, on Cotto's resume, Shane Mosely defeats every single opponent on Fraud's resume too,...also on Margarito's resume is Joshua Clottey, I have a sneaking suspicion he is the third best welterweight in the world, he too, also beats every opponent on Fraud's resume.

Margarito's got him,.. unless ofcourse,..Fraud wants to come out of retirement and prove otherwise?... :lol:

[dymipepel]

also on Margarito's resume is Joshua Clottey, I have a sneaking suspicion he is the third best welterweight in the world, he too, also beats every opponent on Fraud's resume.



How come Clottey couldn't beat Carlos Baldomir, then?

[KaukipRrr]

How come Clottey couldn't beat Carlos Baldomir, then?

Well Dympeople if memory serves me correctly, there was no KO in this fight what so ever, so one must look at the official scorecards to see who won,.. and on those those scorecards,.. we see a clear points victory to one Joshua Clottey,...? :dunno:...

[dymipepel]

Well Dympeople if memory serves me correctly, there was no KO in this fight what so ever, so one must look at the official scorecards to see who won,.. and on those those scorecards,.. we see a clear points victory to one Joshua Clottey,...? :dunno:...

Well, Kauki, if memory serves me right, there was no need to go to official scorecards to see who won :dunno:
Also, if memory serves me right, Carlos "Tata" Baldomir has a victory over one Joshua Clottey :dunno:

[Mitchell Kane]

To me, Hoya's biggest win was against Quartey. They were both about the same size, and Ike was in his prime. That's the most meaningful, even though is was somewhat of a controversial win, I had Hoya edging the fight by 2 points after the late knockdown.

I thought he lost the jabbing contest and with it the fight.

[KaukipRrr]

Well, Kauki, if memory serves me right, there was no need to go to official scorecards to see who won :dunno:
Also, if memory serves me right, Carlos "Tata" Baldomir has a victory over one Joshua Clottey :dunno:

A victory meaning either a KO, or a win on points I'm afraid Dympeople, that's how one fighter beats another, that's the reality of boxing,.. since there was no ko, we simply have to look at the points tally, this will clarify to us beyond any doubt, who won the fight, .....remember now,
more points, more case for a victory,
- that's how it works in boxing Dympeople, it's sad but true, I'd like Baldomir to win a fight over a quality opponent as much as the next man, but if you dont have any power to knock people out, or any skills to score points or any worthy attribute what so ever, the best you could hope for is for some incompetant European referee to disqualify your opponent over a meager infringement, but hopefully that never happens, and the more superior fighter walks away the victor.

[Erratic]

Cotto is probably better than anyone DLH or PBF clearly beat, without controversy.

I thought DLH beat Trinidad, though not as wide as many others had it.

Obviously, PBF and DLH's career achievements are far ahead of Margarito's.


I thought he lost the jabbing contest and with it the fight.

Quartey won that fight.

A great finish isn't enough to make up for the other rounds when DLH stood and stared at Quartey and ate jabs and the occassional right hand (not that Quartey landed a lot of jabs and rights, but enough to win at least 7 rounds).

[dymipepel]

A victory meaning either a KO, or a win on points I'm afraid Dympeople, that's how one fighter beats another, that's the reality of boxing..

I'm afraid not, my dear friend, I'm afraid not.....
KO or a points advantage is not at all always a sign of victory.
Let me give you an example, you perhaps might understand.
There's this cowardly fighter from Bramberkistan, Muhammad Abdullaev. You might have heard of him. He once fought one Miguel Cotto. There was no KO, and the fight didn't go to scorecards, yet one Miguel Cotto was declared a winner.
Can you take a guess as to why it happened?
Or perhaps another example to refresh your memory, my dear Kauki.
There was this one cowardly fighter, Kostya Pus. Pus fought one Ricky Hatton, and once again, there was no KO and the fight didn't go to scorecards, yet Pus lost the fight.
Can you take a guess as to why it happened?
So, as you can see these are just few examples where the fight didn't go to scorecard and there was no KO, yet one fighter was declared a winner. if you wish, I can provide another example, but the point is, and will always remain, the same: One Carlos "Caca" Baldomir has defeated one Joshua "The terror of Margarita" Clottey.

[KaukipRrr]

I'm afraid not, my dear friend, I'm afraid not.....
KO or a points advantage is not at all always a sign of victory.
Let me give you an example, you perhaps might understand.
There's this cowardly fighter from Bramberkistan, Muhammad Abdullaev. You might have heard of him. He once fought one Miguel Cotto. There was no KO, and the fight didn't go to scorecards, yet one Miguel Cotto was declared a winner.
Can you take a guess as to why it happened?
Or perhaps another example to refresh your memory, my dear Kauki.
There was this one cowardly fighter, Kostya Pus. Pus fought one Ricky Hatton, and once again, there was no KO and the fight didn't go to scorecards, yet Pus lost the fight.
Can you take a guess as to why it happened?
So, as you can see these are just few examples where the fight didn't go to scorecard and there was no KO, yet one fighter was declared a winner. if you wish, I can provide another example, but the point is, and will always remain, the same: One Carlos "Caca" Baldomir has defeated one Joshua "The terror of Margarita" Clottey.

I'm afraid pulling a Mohammed A.... li?, was that Mohammed Ali?.. yes it must of been since I heard him screaming for his fight to be stopped against Sonny "Quitter" Liston, in a most cowardly affair, where the quit was up for grabs,....strangely, that fight is idolized in American folklore,.. but to the point Dympeople, quitting is filed under "TKO" short for 'KO', and thus there was no KO of any kind,.. and the scorecards reflected Clottey's superiority,.. the sum is straightforward,
No ko + More points = victory, you've gotta love Carlos though, he merited Floyd Mayweather fighter of the year honours for 2006, imagine what Floyd could have achieved if he took on Clottey, well actually,..why not Clottey's father/Baldomir's grandfather,...Antonio Margarito?...that sounds good,..I'd like to see that fight.

[dymipepel]

I'm afraid pulling a Mohammed A.... li?, was that Mohammed Ali?.. yes it must of been since I heard him screaming for his fight to be stopped against Sonny "Quitter" Liston, in a most cowardly affair, where the quit was up for grabs,....strangely, that fight is idolized in American folklore,.. but to the point Dympeople, quitting is filed under "TKO" short for 'KO', and thus there was no KO of any kind,.. and the scorecards reflected Clottey's superiority,.. the sum is straightforward,
No ko + More points = victory, you've gotta love Carlos though, he merited Floyd Mayweather fighter of the year honours for 2006, imagine what Floyd could have achieved if he took on Clottey, well actually,..why not Clottey's father/Baldomir's grandfather,...Antonio Margarito?...that sounds good,..I'd like to see that fight.

Kauki, why are you side-stepping the question of Zoo and Abdulaev quitting like bitches?
As to the points you raise.....why was Holyfield declared winner of 2-nd bout with Tyson, despite not having scored a (T)KO and the fight not going to points?

[Erratic]

Well Dympeople if memory serves me correctly, there was no KO in this fight what so ever, so one must look at the official scorecards to see who won,.. and on those those scorecards,.. we see a clear points victory to one Joshua Clottey,...? :dunno:...

Because Clottey fell apart mentally and got himself DQ'd.

The ref warned him repeatedly about headbutts.

So Clottey goes and headbutts Baldomir more and more and commits an assortment of other fouls.

[dymipepel]

Because Clottey fell apart mentally and got himself DQ'd.

The ref warned him repeatedly about headbutts.

So Clottey goes and headbutts Baldomir more and more and commits an assortment of other fouls.

Erratic, do you agree or disagree with the fact that Carlos Baldomir has a victory over Joshua Clottey?

[KaukipRrr]

Kauki, why are you side-stepping the question of Zoo and Abdulaev quitting like bitches?
As to the points you raise.....why was Holyfield declared winner of 2-nd bout with Tyson, despite not having scored a (T)KO and the fight not going to points?

Easy Dympeople, Holyfield was simply superior on points, just like Clottey, as I said, no ko + more points equals victory, and yes, this formulae has worked once again, Holyfield was indeed victorious.

Dympeople on a somewhat relevant topic, is Margarito a worthy opponent for Floyd Mayweather jr, and what obstacles do you see getting into the way of what is broadly described as an inevitable showdown..?

[KaukipRrr]

Because Clottey fell apart mentally and got himself DQ'd.

The ref warned him repeatedly about headbutts.

So Clottey goes and headbutts Baldomir more and more and commits an assortment of other fouls.

Now, now now Erratic,....an elbow, a forearm, or a backtwist is as good as a headbutt to a blind bat, there is room for all felonies when it comes to implimenting what is described in American headquarters as a genius defensive system, this shant have anything to do with Joshua Clottey's superior points tally over Baldomir..... fouls?.. what's wrong with fouls?...

Clottey up ^

[Mitchell Kane]

Cotto is probably better than anyone DLH or PBF clearly beat, without controversy.

I thought DLH beat Trinidad, though not as wide as many others had it.

Obviously, PBF and DLH's career achievements are far ahead of Margarito's.



Quartey won that fight.

A great finish isn't enough to make up for the other rounds when DLH stood and stared at Quartey and ate jabs and the occassional right hand (not that Quartey landed a lot of jabs and rights, but enough to win at least 7 rounds).

Why are you explaining this to me?

[Neil]

I'd say the best wins of delahoyas career were over chavez 1, vargas, gonzalez and hernandez.

none close to cotto

[dymipepel]

Easy Dympeople, Holyfield was simply superior on points, just like Clottey
If Clottey was superior on points, as you allege, why did he have to resort to headbutting Carlos? Was it because Carlos' relentless pressure led him to believe he couldn't win via legitimate means, and he preferred to extricate himself from the delicate situation by fouling himself out?




Dympeople on a somewhat relevant topic, is Margarito a worthy opponent for Floyd Mayweather jr, and what obstacles do you see getting into the way of what is broadly described as an inevitable showdown..?

I don't think Margarito is quite worthy yet, seeing as how he has a grand total of one (somewhat meaningless) victory after almost 15 years in boxing.
But it's a moot point anyway, seeing as Floyd Mayweather retired after battering Zoo's daddy into submission.

[KaukipRrr]

If Floyd Mayweather was superior on points, as you allege, why did he have to resort to elbowing, forearming, excessively running and turning his back to Jose Luis? Was it because Castillo's relentless pressure led him to believe he couldn't win via legitimate means, and he preferred to extricate himself from the delicate situation by fouling and running the rounds out?

:bears: Why yes Dympeople, I'm used to you taking the subject away on an interesting little tangent, and I think you've pretty much hit the nail clean on the head here, it should serve us all very well as a precedent in future. :bears:

But I must wonder, if Baldomir ever made Floyd feel the same way?..I recall Floyd bawling and sobbing after the fight....but what confuses me is,... ..if Baldomir has a 5% knock out ratio?...can he really scare anybody into running away or fouling?..I mean sure, Floyd fouled and cried and carried on but,.. I mean.....Floyd's just, ....unique.

[dymipepel]

:bears: Why yes Dympeople, I'm used to you taking the subject away on an interesting little tangent, and I think you've pretty much hit the nail clean on the head here, it should serve us all very well as a precedent in future. :bears:

But I must wonder, if Baldomir ever made Floyd feel the same way?..I recall Floyd bawling and sobbing after the fight....but what confuses me is,... ..if Baldomir has a 5% knock out ratio?...can he really scare anybody into running away or fouling?..I mean sure, Floyd fouled and cried and carried on but,.. I mean.....Floyd's just, ....unique.



kauki, kauki......i'm disappointed in you....Surely, I could stoop to the level of changing one of your posts and proclaim (in your name) that Zoo, Abdula and Margo are the quitters of the higher caliber....But I restrain myself from such unoriginal action.
Why are you avoiding the question about Clottey's loss to one Carlos Baldomir?

[joony]

i'd love to see margarito vs. floyd, but i still don't understand this 'fraud' label. i've never been a big mayweather guy, but damn, it's not his damn fault that judah lost to baldomir. shit, he still beat both of them and beat oscar.

he's already accomplished a lot at 130-140 and even won titles at 147 and 154. who gives a fuck if he doesnt fight margarito?

it's not like people are demanding margarito to move up to 154 and fight santos or some title holder.

if a guy like cotto is such a real fighter, why doesnt he move up to 160 and fight pavlik?

[dymipepel]

it's not like people are demanding margarito to move up to 154 and fight santos or some title holder.


But shouldn't people start demanding that Margarito finally fight the guys his own size?
I mean, Margarito is about twice as big as Cotto, yet there's no demand for Margarito to come up and face guys like Calzaghe or Pavlik.

[Erratic]

Why are you explaining this to me?

The first part was to the topic of the thread.

The second part, I was agreeing with you.

[KaukipRrr]

kauki, kauki......i'm disappointed in you....Surely, I could stoop to the level of changing one of your posts and proclaim (in your name) that Zoo, Abdula and Margo are the quitters of the higher caliber....But I restrain myself from such unoriginal action.
Why are you avoiding the question about Clottey's loss to one Carlos Baldomir?

Forgive the misunderstanding Dympeople but that is what I read from your post, it's all I could see, I'm so sorry, If I see phrases like "couldn't handle the pressure and uses fouls as a means of escape".. then I'm blinded Dympeople simply blinded by a collection of memories and images in relation to one Floyd Mayweather jr :crying:,..it's like a google search Dympeople,..only more volatile,..
---Now in relation to Mohammed Ali quitting, yes that's already been very much irrefuteably established on this messageboard,.. ------and I thought we came to an agreement on the proven formulae that if there is no KO, a fighter who has won more rounds is victorious, I think it's pretty simple Dympeople, I'm not sure how further I can help you realise this, I know it may be hard to accept, Im a Carlos Tata Baldomir fan myself, a prime Baldomir was awesome but... you know...facts are facts,..http://www.fightbeat.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif

[dymipepel]

a prime Baldomir was awesome

Finally we agree, Kauki. A prime Baldomir was a force to be reconed with....The way he handled a prime Clottey stands in stark contrast to the way Margarito struggled with the same....

[IHATEJONES]

This has to be the most passive-aggressive boxing discussion I've ever witnessed.

[KaukipRrr]

Finally we agree, Kauki. A prime Baldomir was a force to be reconed with....

Yes I think we'll agree to that particular quote Dympeople, I like that actually,.. 'a PRIME Baldomir' ,..

[dymipepel]

Yes I think we'll agree to that particular quote Dympeople, I like that actually,.. 'a PRIME Baldomir' ,..

Exactomundo, my dear Kauki, exactomundo....
Now, if you could only append a "beat prime Clottey" to "a prime Baldomir", we very could be friends, very well could be....

[joony]

But shouldn't people start demanding that Margarito finally fight the guys his own size?
I mean, Margarito is about twice as big as Cotto, yet there's no demand for Margarito to come up and face guys like Calzaghe or Pavlik.

obviously you missed my point. i brought that up as an example because everyone is shitting on floyd for not fighting margarito or cotto.

[dymipepel]

obviously you missed my point. i brought that up as an example because everyone is shitting on floyd for not fighting margarito or cotto.

Obviously, if I cared about your point, I wouldn't've missed it.

[joony]

Obviously, if I cared about your point, I wouldn't've missed it.

then why did you reply you dumb fuck?

[KaukipRrr]

obviously you missed my point. i brought that up as an example because everyone is shitting on floyd for not fighting margarito or cotto.

Joony please, it's what happens when you call yourself the greatest of all time, but refuse to even fight the best in your own division. Floyd shouldn't recieve any sympathy, it's like when he was bawling on the podium at a post fight presser while simultaneously recieving a cheque for 8 million dollars.....:shit: how pathetically out of touch

[dymipepel]

then why did you reply you dumb fuck?

Because I like you and think you're an intelligent and reasonable poster.

[Neil]

I have still yet to see a single person claim delahoya had any victory that trumps margaritos signature stoppage of cotto.

glad we're in agreement

[joony]

Joony please, it's what happens when you call yourself the greatest of all time, but refuse to even fight the best in your own division. Floyd shouldn't recieve any sympathy, it's like when he was bawling on the podium at a post fight presser while simultaneously recieving a cheque for 8 million dollars.....:shit: how pathetically out of touch

i don't have any sympathy for a guy who made that much money. i'm just telling it like it is.

[Damien]

I have still yet to see a single person claim delahoya had any victory that trumps margaritos signature stoppage of cotto.

glad we're in agreement


Personally, I thought DLH beat Trinidad and I'd consider that more significant at that time then Margarito's victory over Cotto.

Let's not forget how vulnerable Cotto looked against Ricardo Torres and even at times against Lovemore Ndou.

[Neil]

Personally, I thought DLH beat Trinidad and I'd consider that more significant at that time then Margarito's victory over Cotto.

Let's not forget how vulnerable Cotto looked against Ricardo Torres and even at times against Lovemore Ndou.

well I was not impressed at all by delahoyas performance against trinidad. whether or not you consider that a victory.

I'm not sure who was more weight drained, cotto vs torres & ndou or trinidad vs delahoya

[D MAN]

DLH's victories over Fernandoid Vargas

[Neil]

DLH's victories over Fernandoid Vargas

there was more than 1?

[*Z*]

Let's see where Cotto rates toward the end of his career. As it is now, who knows just how good Cotto is. He could be the next Vargas for all we know. Oscar has by far a better resume than Margarito. It's going to be a while before this question can be answered.

[Mitchell Kane]

Let's see where Cotto rates toward the end of his career. As it is now, who knows just how good Cotto is. He could be the next Vargas for all we know. Oscar has by far a better resume than Margarito. It's going to be a while before this question can be answered.

If he is the next Vargas, wouldn't Margarito's win still rank higher because Cotto hadn't been beaten, or knocked out, prior to Margarito doing it?

De La Hoya didn't fight Vargas until after Trinidad gave him a sustained beating. Vargas was diminished...something clearly evident in subsequent performances against Rivera and Flores.

The main thing in DLH's favor in this comparison might be Vargas' size and the fact he was on steroids...whereas Cotto was significantly smaller that Margarito.

[Neil]

if we're going suggest cotto is the next vargas then we may as well compare trinidads win over vargas to margaritos win over cotto.

[Free Ike]

Wow, I am so glad I get to experience the genius of "Neil". What a fantastic point. Margarito win over a clear all time great like Cotto. I mean, Cotto barely beat a shot Shane Mosley, he beat Zab who hadn't won a fight in two years(but he was very relevant). He beat Paul Malignaggi who is a very large junior welter with perfect hands and a punch heard 'round the world.

Margarito's career was much better than DLH.
Whitaker
Vargas
Chavez
Margo
etc...

COTTO RESUME IS FAR BETTER. AND MARGARITO BEAT THAT SUPERSTAR!!

I think this thread is "short" (just an expression buddy) on logic and a central point.

[Neil]

as scintillating as delahoyas victory over whitaker was, I'll have to give the nod to margarito stopping cotto. especially considering margarito actually landed some meaningful punches in the fight.

the first chavez fight was a solid victory for delahoya. despite the cut chavez entered the ring with, and the 100 fights he had prior.

not sure who margo is

[Double L]

you failed to answer the question. was his victory over quartey more impressive/meaningful than margarito's win over cotto?

personally I had quartey clearly winning so its not even debatable for me.

"personally", you have a deep hatred for ODH so there's no debating his career with you, period. According to you, it was a flop. He didn't deserve a single one of his victories. And he never fought anyone worth a damn. So what's the point of making a thread like this? What's the point of asking a question when you won't even acknowledge reality?

But to answer your question, which I'm sure you'll disagree with and back up your answers with a bunch of personal insults aimed at ODH, his win over Vargas was every bit as impressive if you ask me.

[Neil]

if cotto had looked vulnerable and mediocre against shibata flores prior to fighting margarito then I would be forced to agree with you, Señor Objectivity

[joony]

in all fairness, stopping vargas at 154 was a pretty impressive win for oscar.

vargas might not have been the same after tito, but a handful of folks did pick vargas to win that fight.

but then again, no one had considered vargas to be a top 15 p4p level fighter by then.

margarito demolished an unbeaten cotto who was perceived one of the best fighters in the game.

[Double L]

if cotto had looked vulnerable and mediocre against shibata flores prior to fighting margarito then I would be forced to agree with you, Señor Objectivity

if he'd faced Flores, maybe he would've looked vulnerable. but he didn't. he did, however, face Torres and N'dou, against whom he certainly looked vulnerable.

and although Mosley is certainly a tougher challenge than Flores, i wouldn't call Cotto's win over him dominant or without controversey.

[valdosta]

and although Mosley is certainly a tougher challenge than Flores, i wouldn't call Cotto's win over him dominant or without controversey.

Cotto's win over Mosley wasn't dominant, but there was no controversy.

[joony]

if he'd faced Flores, maybe he would've looked vulnerable. but he didn't. he did, however, face Torres and N'dou, against whom he certainly looked vulnerable.

and although Mosley is certainly a tougher challenge than Flores, i wouldn't call Cotto's win over him dominant or without controversey.

what was so controversial about that fight? mosley himself admitted that he lost. just because you thought he won doesnt mean it was controversial.

cotto looked somewhat vulnerable vs. ndou yet he still won 8 rounds of that fight. torres was a future world champion and so was n'dou (who gives just about any world class fighter fits).

shibata flores was a club fighter and a guy vargas used to beat up in sparring. vargas also looked like SHIT vs. wilfredo rivera prior to that fight as well.

[Erratic]

Cotto-Mosley wasn't controversial. Cotto won it fairly, a 7-5, 8-4 type decision.

I suppose you can be generous to Shane and have it a draw, but you have to really reach to say Mosley deserved to win.

[valdosta]

I have no issues posting my card on that 1 either. Someone else was talking BS about that fight and I watched it recently. Sorry no controversy. Here's my score...

1. Cotto's round clearly, how did you have that even?
2. Mosley but close had to watch it twice.
3. Mosley
4. Cotto
5. Cotto
6. Cotto
7. Mosley
8. Cotto
9.Here is where people didn't payattention well. Cotto took a couple of hard shots, however he clearly landed more (some pretty hards shots of his own). HBO was acting like he was hurt or something when he never was. Cotto boxed nicely in 9 because he wanted to not because he had to.
10. Mosley
11. Cotto-Mosley more agressive but Cotto landed more and hard.
12. Mosley<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

[D MAN]

there was more than 1?

Yes, one time when he pushed him in the ditch and the second time when he KTFO Roid Vargas.

[Neil]

if he'd faced Flores, maybe he would've looked vulnerable. but he didn't. he did, however, face Torres and N'dou, against whom he certainly looked vulnerable.

and although Mosley is certainly a tougher challenge than Flores, i wouldn't call Cotto's win over him dominant or without controversey.

flores is rubbish. cotto bashed plenty of guys heads in who were that calibur or higher. I was ringside when cotto beat ndou. he looked like death at the scale but still won 9 rounds, I saw no vulnerability. vargas hadn't beaten a good fighter in YEARS prior to fighting delahoya

[Xplosive]

if we're going suggest cotto is the next vargas then we may as well compare trinidads win over vargas to margaritos win over cotto.

I'll take Tito's win over Vargas as being more impressive. I think a prime Vargas was better than Cotto.

[joony]

I'll take Tito's win over Vargas as being more impressive. I think a prime Vargas was better than Cotto.

how? cotto was more experienced and seasoned and was a clear favorite to beat margarito.

vargas had what? just over 20 pro fights?

[KaukipRrr]

I'll take Tito's win over Vargas as being more impressive. I think a prime Vargas was better than Cotto.

Give Margarito some plastered knuckles and it wouldn't go 2.

[LATIN KING]

how? cotto was more experienced and seasoned and was a clear favorite to beat margarito.

vargas had what? just over 20 pro fights?
I agree! Vargas didn't have any big wins. Only the tittle of the youngest champion ever at 154 - whatever the hell that's worth.

Skill wise Cotto was already superior than Vargas.

It's sad to mention the pre Trinidad VArgas as a prime Vargas but his prime was that short.

[panchyprsss]

Cotto's win over Mosley wasn't dominant, but there was no controversy.
Exactly. Even Shane Mosley himself acknowledged that Cotto defeated him at the end of the fight. He didn't pull a "I-was-robbed" De La Hoya rant. And btw, ODLH did got a gift in his 'victory' over Whitaker, so that one should not even be mentioned. Oscar's greatest victory was over Chavez, who was still a champ at the time...well a fading champ anyway, with only one official defeat (we all know that the 'draw' to Whitaker was the worst decision ever in boxing history).