Okay, let's stop with the "Oscar was shot and weight drained" angle...

[Alabama_Man]

"This was a fight that should have been won. Oscar was able to achieve a great physical condition during his training. I am a witness that he did not have problems with his weight and he was not dried out from the vapors [of a sauna]. During that time he had a nutritionist by his side who took charge of his weight and diet. But at the time of the fight he couldn't do things well. He couldn't deal with the versatility of Pacquiao," Nacho said.

"The Filipino is tremendous. I insisted that he walk to Pacquiao's left side, but he insisted on walking to the other side, toward the right, and only managed to put himself in the line of fire," Nacho said. "The fact is, because of Pacquiao's mobility he couldn't find him."

Straight from Nachos mouth, it wasn't a weight issue, it was a speed issue.

[*Z*]

Still doesn't make him any less shot.

[Pascals Wager]

Straight from Nachos mouth, it wasn't a weight issue, it was a speed issue.

Yep. It was more the opponent than the weight.
Pacman's style showed us how far removed DLH was from his prime

However, some people just see what they decide to see...

I'm sure that they would blame the difference in Evanders performance between the Rahman fight & the Byrd fight on "weight drain" if they heard that he had to cut a lot of weight.
-I mean he did look slower against Byrd than Rahman-and it couldn't possibly be anything to do with the opponent's style now could it?

[Alabama_Man]

It was more the opponent than the weight.

However, some people just see what they decide to see...

I'm sure that they would blame the difference in Evanders performance between the Rahman fight & the Byrd fight on "weight drain" if they heard that he had to cut a lot of weight.
-I mean he did look slower against Byrd than Rahman-and it couldn't possibly be anything to do with the opponent's style now could it?

Exactly.

That's the thing that bothers me about this whole fight. I knew Pacquiao was going to win, but I almost cringed at the thought it would be by stoppage (even though I was happy at the time). I just knew if Pac won by stoppage, the entire "Monday Morning QB" community would say "Oscar is shot" or "Oscar was weight drained", when 95% of them picked Oscar to dominate.

I just feel Nacho would know more about Oscar's physical health than anyone else here.

[Baron]

So I guess you'd pick that version of Pacquiao over the prime version of Oscar at WW if his decline has nothing to do with what happened saturday night.:atu:

[valdosta]

I wonder why Oscar hadn't fought a lefty in 11 years.

[Pascals Wager]

Exactly.

That's the thing that bothers me about this whole fight. I knew Pacquiao was going to win, but I almost cringed at the thought it would be by stoppage (even though I was happy at the time). I just knew if Pac won by stoppage, the entire "Monday Morning QB" community would say "Oscar is shot" or "Oscar was weight drained", when 95% of them picked Oscar to dominate.

I just feel Nacho would know more about Oscar's physical health than anyone else here.

I was one of those who picked DLH to stop Manny.
I also voiced concern about the weight loss.

I do think DLH is clearly past-prime, & I also think that it was reasonable to make the assumption that weight-loss could be a factor.

However I have to be honest with myself.
You can look @ the fight through the prism of that assumption & conclude certain things.

Without that prism, & being honest & objective though, DLH's performance had a LOT more to do with the difference in opponent than the difference in weight

[Alabama_Man]

So I guess you'd pick that version of Pacquiao over the prime version of Oscar at WW if his decline has nothing to do with what happened saturday night.:atu:

What's was Oscar's prime years in your opinion?

[Ugotabe Kidding]

Chris Byrd's physique looked spectacular too and there was no report of him having trouble with his weight against George

[Pascals Wager]

Chris Byrd's physique looked spectacular too and there was no report of him having trouble with his weight against George

Now THAT was weight-drain.
However that case just proves that weight-drain can affect a fighter.
I'm sure we all understand that.

I wouldn't expect to hear anything about weight trouble leading up to a fight from a fighters camp. Was there any talk at all from Byrd's trainer post-fight regarding Byrd's weight, though Ugotabe Kidding?

[Erratic]

I think it was a variety of factors. Pac fighting a brilliant fight, DLH going down in weight, Pac's southpaw style, Pac's speed, etc...

I never thought DLH would fight at welterweight again, he had been saying he'd go back down since after the Hopkins fight, but I felt he'd outgrown the weight. I had hoped going in that DLH would be compromised by making 147, because I thought Pacquiao was too small and figured it'd help Manny's chances if DLH had trouble with the weight. In recent years, fighters in their mid 30s (RJJ, SRL, Byrd) have had trouble when dropping down in weight. But I never would've thought that DLH would lose every second of the fight.

DLH hadn't fought a lefty since Camacho in 1997. Pac had a field day with the straight left. He was hitting DLH with a straight left and sliding out, like he often did versus Larios. I was worried that when sliding to his right after landing the straight left, he'd run into a left hook. But Pac's defense was really on point, and DLH just looked slow and off. DLH did look shot.

I'm really impressed by Pacquiao's longevity. He's not a spring chicken. He's a 30 year old with a very high-octane style who's been fighting professionally since he was what, 16?

[Alabama_Man]

Yes Chris Byrd's weight loss was ridiculous, over 40 pounds by some estimates. Oscar was 7 pounds away from his previous weightclass, not exactly the same thing.

Also Byrd got his ass kicked by Povetkin recently before the fight against George. He already showed signs of being shot there, where Oscar took Floyd to a SD recently before. No comparison.

[Alabama_Man]

I'm really impressed by Pacquiao's longevity. He's not a spring chicken. He's a 30 year old with a very high-octane style who's been fighting professionally since he was what, 16?

Yeah, a guy with Pac's style should've been done 2 years ago, but his physical training regimen, and discipline during camp really shows. Not only that, but it's the food. :lol: Filipino blood is very rich.

[Pascals Wager]

I think it was a variety of factors. Pac fighting a brilliant fight, DLH going down in weight, Pac's southpaw style, Pac's speed, etc...

I never thought DLH would fight at welterweight again, he had been saying he'd go back down since after the Hopkins fight, but I felt he'd outgrown the weight. I had hoped going in that DLH would be compromised by making 147, because I thought Pacquiao was too small and figured it'd help Manny's chances if DLH had trouble with the weight. In recent years, fighters in their mid 30s (RJJ, SRL, Byrd) have had trouble when dropping down in weight. But I never would've thought that DLH would lose every second of the fight.

DLH hadn't fought a lefty since Camacho in 1997. Pac had a field day with the straight left. He was hitting DLH with a straight left and sliding out, like he often did versus Larios. I was worried that when sliding to his right after landing the straight left, he'd run into a left hook. But Pac's defense was really on point, and DLH just looked slow and off. DLH did look shot.

I'm really impressed by Pacquiao's longevity. He's not a spring chicken. He's a 30 year old with a very high-octane style who's been fighting professionally since he was what, 16?

I also really think that Pac raped DLH to the body. Oscar doubled over every time Pac went downstairs. I think that had a LOT to do with DLH's lack of mobility (and possibly jab).

[Alabama_Man]

I also really think that Pac raped DLH to the body. Oscar doubled over every time Pac went downstairs. I think that had a LOT to do with DLH's lack of mobility (and possibly jab).

Pac landed a vicious body shot in the 7th round right before he started pummeling Dela Hoya on the ropes the first time. You could tell Manny Steward was going to mention it because he began to speak, but that big mouth Jim Lampley talked over Steward, and the opportunity was missed.

You could tell though that Oscar felt it.

[*Z*]

Not to take anything away from Pacman, he fought a great fight and it's a great win for him. Oscar just isn't even close to the fighter he once was though. That much is obvious.

[Erratic]

I also really think that Pac raped DLH to the body. Oscar doubled over every time Pac went downstairs. I think that had a LOT to do with DLH's lack of mobility (and possibly jab).

Roach agrees too.

Even DLH's high cup couldn't help him from being raked downstairs.

[Pascals Wager]

Pac landed a vicious body shot in the 7th round right before he started pummeling Dela Hoya on the ropes the first time. You could tell Manny Steward was going to mention it because he began to speak, but that big mouth Jim Lampley talked over Steward, and the opportunity was missed.

You could tell though that Oscar felt it.

Yep.
A lot of people are talking about how mystified they were @ DLH standing there & taking a beating in rnds 7&8.
What I saw was a guy who had been raped to the body & just didn't have any ability to do anything other than move away & defend.

[mikE]

Yep. It was more the opponent than the weight.
Pacman's style showed us how far removed DLH was from his prime

However, some people just see what they decide to see...



hmmmmm

[Pascals Wager]

hmmmmm

Do you have an opinion regarding this thread Mike?

[Ron King 702]

FIX

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

Straight from Nachos mouth, it wasn't a weight issue, it was a speed issue.



:rolleyes: you couldn't resist..GREAT VICTORY for PAC...but he beat.a SHOT weightdrained DE LA HOYA...Oscar hasn't fought at 147 in years..since the Mosley fight 8 years ago....said a bunch of times he could not make the weight..blah.blah...then for Pacquiao he comes down to 145?..and then couldn't gain that weight back...came into in fighting night at 147....HE WAS FUCKED!!!

[Alabama_Man]

:rolleyes: you couldn't resist..GREAT VICTORY for PAC...but he beat.a SHOT weightdrained DE LA HOYA...Oscar hasn't fought at 147 in years..since the Mosley fight 8 years ago....said a bunch of times he could not make the weight..blah.blah...then for Pacquiao he comes down to 145?..and then couldn't gain that weight back...came into in fighting night at 147....HE WAS FUCKED!!!

Let's see, trust Nacho Beristain who was in camp with Dela Hoya for 2 months, or ILLUMINATI who post on fightbeat's forums.

I think I know whose word means A LOT more. :lol:

[mexican wedding shirt]

I think it was a variety of factors. Pac fighting a brilliant fight, DLH going down in weight, Pac's southpaw style, Pac's speed, etc...

I never thought DLH would fight at welterweight again, he had been saying he'd go back down since after the Hopkins fight, but I felt he'd outgrown the weight. I had hoped going in that DLH would be compromised by making 147, because I thought Pacquiao was too small and figured it'd help Manny's chances if DLH had trouble with the weight. In recent years, fighters in their mid 30s (RJJ, SRL, Byrd) have had trouble when dropping down in weight. But I never would've thought that DLH would lose every second of the fight.

DLH hadn't fought a lefty since Camacho in 1997. Pac had a field day with the straight left. He was hitting DLH with a straight left and sliding out, like he often did versus Larios. I was worried that when sliding to his right after landing the straight left, he'd run into a left hook. But Pac's defense was really on point, and DLH just looked slow and off. DLH did look shot.

I'm really impressed by Pacquiao's longevity. He's not a spring chicken. He's a 30 year old with a very high-octane style who's been fighting professionally since he was what, 16?

Me too. I think an example of your average high energy fighter is hatton, short shelf life.

Pacman is an absolute exception to the rule, like Duran, just an incredible specimen.

[LATIN KING]

if your gonna use Nacho's statement to back up your claim than we have to also use Roach's statement on his last interview I saw yesterday on Maxboxing.

He said the Oscar's drop in weight did play a part. Especially when he only gained 2 more pounds. Roach said Oscar tried to come in lighter than Pacquiao and paid for it. He said whoever was his nutritionist did a terrible job.

I could tell Oscar was weight drained early in the fight when his legs would wobble. Pacquiao dindn't land anything meaningful early to hurt him. He was just outworking him.

I still give Pacquiao credit. But to assume Oscar's weight and shotness had nothing to do with it is fucking stupid.

you could already see Oscar gunshy on the Forbes fight last May. Hell there is a reason why on these last training camp both Ortiz and Valero took turns beating his ass.

[Alabama_Man]

if your gonna use Nacho's statement to back up your claim than we have to also use Roach's statement on his last interview I saw yesterday on Maxboxing.



Umm, Nacho trained Oscar, not Freddie.

Anyway, don't you have to make some predictions like "No one under batam beats Arce" and "Oscar by KO8"??? :lol:

[Baron]

Umm, Nacho trained Oscar, not Freddie.

Anyway, don't you have to make some predictions like "No one under batam beats Arce" and "Oscar by KO8"??? :lol:
Roach trained DLH too...

[valdosta]

Not for this fight he didn't so he wouldn;t really know about Oscar's nutritionist and how he did his weight.

[Alabama_Man]

Not for this fight he didn't so he wouldn;t really know about Oscar's nutritionist and how he did his weight.

Precisely. :bears:

[Baron]

Not for this fight he didn't so he wouldn;t really know about Oscar's nutritionist and how he did his weight.

No but he said Oscar couldn't pull the trigger anymore though. That is more important than the weight issue. Oscar is shot.

[LATIN KING]

Umm, Nacho trained Oscar, not Freddie.

Anyway, don't you have to make some predictions like "No one under batam beats Arce" and "Oscar by KO8"??? :lol:please! your just a retard cheerleader.

you only quote Nacho when it's convenient to your argument. Roach trained Pacquiao for this fight so he knew what to expect from Oscar's preparation. Anybody who knows boxing can tell the conditioning from a boxer.

Oscar hasn't fought at 147 for years and dropped more weight to weigh 145 and looked weak at the beginning of the fight. Common sense would tell you he overtrained. But Common sense and you don't go together.

Everybody has given Pacquiao his props from the moment the fight ended.

Your problem is you wanna believe Pacquiao beat a prime Oscar. Oscar has been declining for years. He overtrained and it showed. There is a reason the guy has stayed above welter for years.

This doesn't take credit away from pacquiao. It is just a fact that Oscar is way past his prime. If you can't see that or wanna admit that than once again you show your lack of knowledge about the sport.

[valdosta]

No but he said Oscar couldn't pull the trigger anymore though. That is more important than the weight issue. Oscar is shot.

Exactly what I said people would say if Pacquiao won. :bears:

[Baron]

Exactly what I said people would say if Pacquiao won. :bears:

He looked shot to me. :dunno:

[valdosta]

http://www.fightbeat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29319&highlight=Pacquiao

[LATIN KING]

Not for this fight he didn't so he wouldn;t really know about Oscar's nutritionist and how he did his weight.
obviously the comment he made was based on him being a trainer for years and knowing when a fighter overtrains.

Roach as asked when exactly he knew that Pacquiao had the edge on Oscar and Roach explained his thoughts on dropping the weight.

Obviously he wasn't in Oscar's camp nobody is claiming he was. It was his opinion on the subject.

Everything Roach has said before, during, and after the fight has proven to be right even when people though he was crazy. According to him the weight played a part on Oscar's body that night.

[valdosta]

That's nice but the fact remains he wasn't in Oscar's camp he don't know how Oscar went about losing the weight. He's entitled to his opinion but I listen more to the guy who was actually in Oscar's camp.

[LATIN KING]

Exactly what I said people would say if Pacquiao won. :bears:
so you wanna pretend that Oscar was in his prime? :atu:

look pacquiao moved up to beat a bigger guy and got the credit for it. Isn't that enough?

EVen Roach who trains Pacquiao and has nothing to gain by saying Oscar overtrained has admited to it.

Oscar was old and weak and Pacquiao capitalized on it. end of story!

[LATIN KING]

That's nice but the fact remains he wasn't in Oscar's camp he don't know how Oscar went about losing the weight. He's entitled to his opinion but I listen more to the guy who was actually in Oscar's camp.
because is convenient to your argument. I'm sure when Oscar releases a statement you will belive whatever he says too correct? afterall he was there too right?

[valdosta]

so you wanna pretend that Oscar was in his prime? :atu:

look pacquiao moved up to beat a bigger guy and got the credit for it. Isn't that enough?

EVen Roach who trains Pacquiao and has nothing to gain by saying Oscar overtrained has admited to it.

Oscar was old and weak and Pacquiao capitalized on it. end of story!

Who said Oscar was in his prime? Regardless of if he's past prime or not he should have been able to beat a guy who only fought above 130 pounds 1 time. Funny you talked lots of shit going into this fight about how funny it would be to see Oscar beat him up did you not? Where were these excuses before the fight? :atu:

[valdosta]

because is convenient to your argument. I'm sure when Oscar releases a statement you will belive whatever he says too correct? afterall he was there too right?

Oscar said he made weight easily and could have even made 140. Good point.

[LATIN KING]

Who said Oscar was in his prime? Regardless of if he's past prime or not he should have been able to beat a guy who only fought above 130 pounds 1 time. Funny you talked lots of shit going into this fight about how funny it would be to see Oscar beat him up did you not? Where were these excuses before the fight? :atu:
I said it would be a hilarious fight I never said why.

I really wanted Oscar to get his ass kicked for years but I didn't think Pacquiao would do it. Neither most people here unless they were out of their mind.

I though it would be hilarious either because Pacquiao and Roach would bite more than they could chew. Or the unthinkable would happen and Pacquiao would be Delahoya.

I'm glad Pacquiao won because this should be the end of Oscar.

[Alabama_Man]

:lol:

LATINQUEER is getting owned badly in this thread. It's hilarious just like his prediction about the fight.

[LATIN KING]

:lol:

LATINQUEER is getting owned badly in this thread. It's hilarious just like his prediction about the fight.
yeah me and the rest of the world picked Oscar. I gues nobody knows anything about boxing. :notallthere:

I always give Pacquiao his props and I did on this fight. You go overboard and think he is god.

[valdosta]

I said it would be a hilarious fight I never said why.

I really wanted Oscar to get his ass kicked for years but I didn't think Pacquiao would do it. Neither most people here unless they were out of their mind.

I though it would be hilarious either because Pacquiao and Roach would bite more than they could chew. Or the unthinkable would happen and Pacquiao would be Delahoya.

I'm glad Pacquiao won because this should be the end of Oscar.

Oh please you said Oscar would slap Manny around,blah,blah,blah.....You thought it was going to be hilarious because Pac was going to get fucked up. Instead it didn't quite turn out that way, it did indeed end up hilarious. :atu:

[LATIN KING]

Oh please you said Oscar would slap Manny around,blah,blah,blah.....You thought it was going to be hilarious because Pac was going to get fucked up. Instead it didn't quite turn out that way, it did indeed end up hilarious. :atu:
dude your acting as if I'm the only one who picked Oscar by a beatdown on Manny.

Are you fucking kidding me? There is a reason everyone ripped Oscar for even making this fight. EVeryone though Oscar would fuck him up.

It's easy to look back now and talk shit as if you knew Manny was gonna pull the upset. Your full of shit. :atu:

[valdosta]

dude your acting as if I'm the only one who picked Oscar by a beatdown on Manny.

Are you fucking kidding me? There is a reason everyone ripped Oscar for even making this fight. EVeryone though Oscar would fuck him up.

It's easy to look back now and talk shit as if you knew Manny was gonna pull the upset. Your full of shit. :atu:

I picked Manny to lose but not with the same confidence. That's something I notice about your real confident picks, they end up wrong I need to start watching for that:atu:

[Alabama_Man]

Anytime LATINQUEER picks someone (Mijares, Arce) and says their opponent is going to get their asses kicked (Darchinyan), their opponent ends up winning. :atu:

[Ron King 702]

FIX

[Baron]

http://www.fightbeat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29319&highlight=Pacquiao

I don't hate Manny, i just thought DLH looked shot. If you think he looked 100% prime and want to say Manny would have beaten him at any point during his career, it's your prerogative, I just don't think so. And to pretend I'm a hater just because I thought Oscar looked shot reeks of nuthuggery.

[adamiw]

I am not taking Nacho's word for it.....it would be an admission of failure on his part if he blamed it on any of the preperation......what he has just said there is that he did all his work, and Oscar didn't follow his instructions....he's just covering his own back...

....if you have come down in weight, fighting at welter for the first time in over 7 years...and you are only putting on 3lbs after the weigh in?....clearly mistakes were made in that department

[mexican wedding shirt]

I am not taking Nacho's word for it.....it would be an admission of failure on his part if he blamed it on any of the preperation......what he has just said there is that he did all his work, and Oscar didn't follow his instructions....he's just covering his own back...

....if you have come down in weight, fighting at welter for the first time in over 7 years...and you are only putting on 3lbs after the weigh in?....clearly mistakes were made in that department

Oscar has basically NEVER weighed in the day of the fight, he is one of the fighters that declines the HBO fight day weigh in.

And you believe that he weighed 147?

Did you actually see footage, or hands on reports of this same day weigh in?

There is no way Oscar weighed 147, it's bullshit.

[adamiw]

Oscar has basically NEVER weighed in the day of the fight, he is one of the fighters that declines the HBO fight day weigh in.

And you believe that he weighed 147?

Did you actually see footage, or hands on reports of this same day weigh in?

There is no way Oscar weighed 147, it's bullshit.

ok, well he weighed 148 on the night....so he lost even less weight between weigh in and fight......don't pull the wool over your own eyes.....it was evident early on that De La Hoya was dead at the weight

even if the whole weight issue is a big conspiracy....ask yourself why?....because DLH is dead at the weight....at 154 he looks fine....he looked a lot more drained than he has done in any of his 154 fights....145?...150?....the actual figure doesn't mean much...whatever it was, he took too much out of himself on the way to making it

[Alabama_Man]

So suddenly guys like LATINQUEER and adamiw know more about Oscar's camp than Nacho himself.

That's awesome. :lol:

[mexican wedding shirt]

ok, well he weighed 148 on the night....so he lost even less weight between weigh in and fight......don't pull the wool over your own eyes.....it was evident early on that De La Hoya was dead at the weight

even if the whole weight issue is a big conspiracy....ask yourself why?....because DLH is dead at the weight....at 154 he looks fine....he looked a lot more drained than he has done in any of his 154 fights....145?...150?....the actual figure doesn't mean much...whatever it was, he took too much out of himself on the way to making it

He weighed 148? How do you know? Did anyone actually see him weigh in on fightday?

Don't be ridiculous. NO WAY Oscar was 147. He looked slender, but he didn't even look that drained, it's not as if he looked like Erik Morales in there.

And why wasn't everyone saying this before the fight?

Before the fight it was all "He's taken his weight down gradually, the smart thing to do" etc etc

And I think we all suspected he would be a little weight drained, but even a past it, weight drained Oscar should have been able to beat a fucking SUPER FEATHERWEIGHT.

Certainly that's what I thought, and so did over 90% of the rest of you, so to take away from Pacman's win with this bullshit is preposterous.

Was Oscar a little weight drained? Probably. Is Oscar a few years past it? Sure - but we all knew that before the fight. It was obvious going down to 147 for the first time in YEARS was not going to be a great idea, but we still all picked him, so therefore all credit goes to Pacquiao.

It's not like a sudden revelation - "Oh I had NO IDEA Oscar was past his best? Is he? And going down to 147 took it's toll on Oscar? Oh I thought he would be perfect at the weight".

We all knew that before the fight, and most of us picked Oscar despite it being glaringly obvious that Oscar was past his best, and it not being a great idea to drop to 147.

[Joe King]

Good post MWS. DLH just fought at 150 in his previous fight as well. He clearly wanted to fight the lower weight fighters because his skills have declined and he can't be competitive even in his own weight class unless it's against Mayorga.

ALL CREDIT GOES TO PACQUIAO AND ROACH. FUCK OSCAR

[Alabama_Man]

Damn Mexican Wedding Shirt just pushed in LATINQUEER's shit. Fuck that's ownage. :lol:

[LOK]

Oscar is basically shot but he is still a good fighter.. or COULD be. It's not totally his shotness, it is also a retarded plan (or lack there of)

he did not need all these all star trainers... he's been boxing since 6 years old or something.. he just needed to be in shape and aggressive. but I can only assume he did not turn it up and be aggresive because he does not have the steam to run like that.. his legs are shot and does not have the stamina to fight aggressivly.

[Ron King 702]

None of this matters because the fight was FIXED`

[salaco]

Oscar looked near shot, he didn't even look impressive against forbes despite the praise he received for not slowing down in the later rounds..doesn't diminish pacman's achievement, it was the manner of the beating which earned him the plaudits however, it was great watching him turn de la hoya into the elephant man...doesn't mean pacquaio won't still struggle with a bunch of 135 and 140Ibers

[LOK]

None of this matters because the fight was FIXED`

:lol: that doesn't matter.. we can still argue Shotness

[Hanz]

Oscar is basically shot but he is still a good fighter.. or COULD be. It's not totally his shotness, it is also a retarded plan (or lack there of)

he did not need all these all star trainers... he's been boxing since 6 years old or something.. he just needed to be in shape and aggressive. but I can only assume he did not turn it up and be aggresive because he does not have the steam to run like that.. his legs are shot and does not have the stamina to fight aggressivly.

And yet he still took Pretty Boy Jr the distance, losing by a split decision.:lol:

[LOK]

And yet he still took Pretty Boy Jr the distance, losing by a split decision.:lol:


what does that have to do?

vs Floyd IMO was in MUCH better shape.. he knew going in.. prolly deep down that he couldn't beat floyd.. he had to really be in shape and excute perfectly.. even then it wouldn't be enough..

so he trained like he was on a mission

IMO this fight..

he knew going in he was fighting a little guy and it was almost embarssing.. he had to hype it..

in doing so, assembling the all star training team..

it was all for show

beneath it all he had no concern, plan or anything for Pac

Pac showed up in a way DLH never even imagined

[Pascals Wager]

He weighed 148? How do you know? Did anyone actually see him weigh in on fightday?

Don't be ridiculous. NO WAY Oscar was 147. He looked slender, but he didn't even look that drained, it's not as if he looked like Erik Morales in there.

And why wasn't everyone saying this before the fight?

Before the fight it was all "He's taken his weight down gradually, the smart thing to do" etc etc

And I think we all suspected he would be a little weight drained, but even a past it, weight drained Oscar should have been able to beat a fucking SUPER FEATHERWEIGHT.

Certainly that's what I thought, and so did over 90% of the rest of you, so to take away from Pacman's win with this bullshit is preposterous.

Was Oscar a little weight drained? Probably. Is Oscar a few years past it? Sure - but we all knew that before the fight. It was obvious going down to 147 for the first time in YEARS was not going to be a great idea, but we still all picked him, so therefore all credit goes to Pacquiao.

It's not like a sudden revelation - "Oh I had NO IDEA Oscar was past his best? Is he? And going down to 147 took it's toll on Oscar? Oh I thought he would be perfect at the weight".

We all knew that before the fight, and most of us picked Oscar despite it being glaringly obvious that Oscar was past his best, and it not being a great idea to drop to 147.


Good post MWS

[Hut*Hut]

Just seen the fight for the first time. My (quite drunken) thoughts spat out in next to random order :-

Oscar wasn't 'shot' or severely weight drained. I didn't see much deterioration between this version and the versions that fought Floyd or Forbes. Past best, obviously yes, but still a world class fighter and one who I might very well pick over Margarito.

It really was a matter of speed, as Roach identified. Oscar's style is so dependent on being quickest on the draw that he had literally no answer against somebody like Manny. Im gonna go as far as saying Manny beats a prime Oscar for that reason. I don't think Ive ever seen a fighter with feet as fast as Manny's they are absolutely fucking blurring. He floats over the ground and he's covered 9 feet before you realize he's just landed four punches and is now half the ring away. It blows my mind. Yes Oscar has slowed, yes his ability to pull the trigger is much diminished (I banged on about that after the PBF fight btw if you can be bothered trawling the archives, not just parroting Roach), but Manny is just THAT fast in and out.

I think Manny beats Mayweather & Hatton and I think he truly is one of the greatest fighters of all time. Top 25 at the very least. And this fight reflects very well on Barrera/Morales & Marquez for that reason. This was a paradigm shifting fight for me, Im gonna have to really reweight my perceptions of a whole generation of fighters after this.

Manny Pacquiao:bears: Makes me excited about the sport again. I'm away to sleep it off. Fucking work tomorrow morning.:crying:

[Pascals Wager]

Just seen the fight for the first time. My (quite drunken) thoughts spat out in next to random order :-

Oscar wasn't 'shot' or severely weight drained. I didn't see much deterioration between this version and the versions that fought Floyd or Forbes. Past best, obviously yes, but still a world class fighter and one who I might very well pick over Margarito.

It really was a matter of speed, as Roach identified. Oscar's style is so dependent on being quickest on the draw that he had literally no answer against somebody like Manny. Im gonna go as far as saying Manny beats a prime Oscar for that reason. I don't think Ive ever seen a fighter with feet as fast as Manny's they are absolutely fucking blurring. He floats over the ground and he's covered 9 feet before you realize he's just landed four punches and is now half the ring away. It blows my mind. Yes Oscar has slowed, yes his ability to pull the trigger is much diminished (I banged on about that after the PBF fight btw if you can be bothered trawling the archives, not just parroting Roach), but Manny is just THAT fast in and out.

I think Manny beats Mayweather & Hatton and I think he truly is one of the greatest fighters of all time. Top 25 at the very least. And this fight reflects very well on Barrera/Morales & Marquez for that reason. This was a paradigm shifting fight for me, Im gonna have to really reweight my perceptions of a whole generation of fighters after this.

Manny Pacquiao:bears: Makes me excited about the sport again. I'm away to sleep it off. Fucking work tomorrow morning.:crying:

THANKYOU.
People should make the effort to watch the fight without the "weight-drain" baggage in their minds.
I keep saying this-The DLH we saw against Manny is the same as we saw against PBF/Forbes.
Being generous, I'd say that he MAY have been half a beat slower to pull the trigger.
However it was more the opponent than the weight.

BTW, for the record-I don't agree that Pac beats prime DLH, or that this DLH beats Margarito.

[LATIN KING]

Anytime LATINQUEER picks someone (Mijares, Arce) and says their opponent is going to get their asses kicked (Darchinyan), their opponent ends up winning. :atu:your the same idiot that thought David Diaz was some mountain to climb by Manny.

I told everyone it was a gimme fight and it was.

you act as if your never wrong. Yet you show up only when your hero fights and disapear from the message boards when you get sodomized by half the people in here. :kick:

Damn near everyone picked Oscar to destroy Manny. I guess by your opinions everyone here is an idiot and can't pick a fight.

I dont' like Oscar so I enjoyed Manny beating his ass either way. Maybe it bothers you that I'm happy to be wrong on this fight.


either way Manny can beat up Margarito in your wildest dreams but in reality JMM still owns him. :mj:

[LATIN KING]

The fact that Oscar might have overtrained doesn't take credit from manny beating his ass.

some of you clowns wanna pretend like Oscar was in his prime coming into the fight.

There is a reason Roach and ARum pushed for this fight and not other welterweights. Because Old Oscar was there for the taking.

you can't have it boh ways. Oscar's decline is a big reason this fight was made by Arum and Roach.

Hell I just read ARum's latest interview when he admits that.

some of you act as if Oscar is coming of the Trinidad fight :lol:

[mexican wedding shirt]

your the same idiot that thought David Diaz was some mountain to climb by Manny.

I told everyone it was a gimme fight and it was.

you act as if your never wrong. Yet you show up only when your hero fights and disapear from the message boards when you get sodomized by half the people in here. :kick:

Damn near everyone picked Oscar to destroy Manny. I guess by your opinions everyone here is an idiot and can't pick a fight.

I dont' like Oscar so I enjoyed Manny beating his ass either way. Maybe it bothers you that I'm happy to be wrong on this fight.


either way Manny can beat up Margarito in your wildest dreams but in reality JMM still owns him. :mj:

Marquez is 0-1-1 against Pacquiao and has never come close to knocking him down, let alone out - yeah that's some proper ownage right there :lol:

You fucktard :mj:

[Alabama_Man]

"Quit crying LATINQUEER." - Manny

:lol:

[TKO]

Straight from Nachos mouth, it wasn't a weight issue, it was a speed issue.

You are clearly on drugs. Oscar a shadow if the dude that fought Floyd never mind his prime. From the first round Manny was hurting Oscar IMO due to his tic tac diet.
I take nothing from Manny but he didnt beat a prime Dela , This is not an excuse Oscar wanted the fight and he got more than he could handle.

[Hut*Hut]

You are clearly on drugs. Oscar a shadow if the dude that fought Floyd never mind his prime. From the first round Manny was hurting Oscar IMO due to his tic tac diet.
I take nothing from Manny but he didnt beat a prime Dela , This is not an excuse Oscar wanted the fight and he got more than he could handle.

Oscar wasn't shaky or sluggish, in fact he was moving fine - just at about 1/3 of the speed of the target he was trying to hit.

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

De La Hoya's killing himself to make 145-47 and his shotness contributed to the DOMINATION.......


but NO fighter from 130,135 and 140 would have done to DLH what Manny Pac did to him that night..........and that includes RICKY HATTON and Juan Manuel Marquez...

So Manny Pacquiao deserved A LOT of credit for beating DE LA HOYA....

[Alabama_Man]

but NO fighter from 130,135 and 140 would have done to DLH what Manny Pac did to him that night..........and that includes RICKY HATTON and Juan Manuel Marquez...

So Manny Pacquiao deserved A LOT of credit for beating DE LA HOYA....

Finally. :bears:

[Alabama_Man]

You are clearly on drugs. Oscar a shadow if the dude that fought Floyd never mind his prime. From the first round Manny was hurting Oscar IMO due to his tic tac diet.
I take nothing from Manny but he didnt beat a prime Dela , This is not an excuse Oscar wanted the fight and he got more than he could handle.

Who are you? Why should I care what you say? :dunno:

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

Finally. :bears:

but he still doesn't beat Pryor ..Tszyu...Chavez at 135/40.....

[adamiw]

So suddenly guys like LATINQUEER and adamiw know more about Oscar's camp than Nacho himself.

That's awesome. :lol:

....pretty cool aint it?

....Nacho isn't gonna say a bad word about his training camp, cos he is the trainer.....you can't take is word as gospel unless it conveniently coincides with your argument......oh wait :doh:



He weighed 148? How do you know? Did anyone actually see him weigh in on fightday?

HBO weighed them on the night....oh but wait, they were in on the conspiracy too, right?




Don't be ridiculous. NO WAY Oscar was 147. He looked slender, but he didn't even look that drained, it's not as if he looked like Erik Morales in there.

And why wasn't everyone saying this before the fight?

Before the fight it was all "He's taken his weight down gradually, the smart thing to do" etc etc

And I think we all suspected he would be a little weight drained, but even a past it, weight drained Oscar should have been able to beat a fucking SUPER FEATHERWEIGHT.

Certainly that's what I thought, and so did over 90% of the rest of you, so to take away from Pacman's win with this bullshit is preposterous.

Was Oscar a little weight drained? Probably. Is Oscar a few years past it? Sure - but we all knew that before the fight. It was obvious going down to 147 for the first time in YEARS was not going to be a great idea, but we still all picked him, so therefore all credit goes to Pacquiao.

It's not like a sudden revelation - "Oh I had NO IDEA Oscar was past his best? Is he? And going down to 147 took it's toll on Oscar? Oh I thought he would be perfect at the weight".

We all knew that before the fight, and most of us picked Oscar despite it being glaringly obvious that Oscar was past his best, and it not being a great idea to drop to 147.

....i'm no dietician....when oscar was weighing about 149 2 weeks before the fight, i was surprised but didn't think too much off it.....my bad, i should have.....it is all in the performance.....look at him vs Mayweather and look at him vs Pacquaio....the difference is more than just the opponent, and more than 18 months of ageing......it was a combination of age and 7lbs.... it took its toll.......roach and arum knew this, and they knew they had the fighter to expose this....fair play to them

I'm not an Oscar fan, just sayin what i saw.....i've never seen him so slow, and even taking into account his history of fatiguing mid-late on in fights....he was exhausted after 3 rounds vs Manny

[Azazel]

You have to be blind or a pac nuthugger to think that this version of Oscar, for whatever reasons it was, wasn't, and by far, the worst ever.

[Baron]

You have to be blind or a pac nuthugger to think that this version of Oscar, for whatever reasons it was, wasn't, and by far, the worst ever.

I'd rather say you have to be a Pac hater to not see this version of DLH was the best in YEARS! That DLH would have sent Pea to the graveyard.

[Alabama_Man]

but he still doesn't beat Pryor ..Tszyu...Chavez at 135/40.....

Debatable on all counts.

[V10]

Debatable on all counts.

Considering he has done shit all in those divisions, not debatable at this point.

Christ, wait until Pac actually beats a prime elite boxer in those divisions.

[TKO]

Oscar wasn't shaky or sluggish, in fact he was moving fine - just at about 1/3 of the speed of the target he was trying to hit.

Dude Oscar was all over the place everything about his movement was shot. Mannys speed didnt help matters but dela stood in front like a punch bag for eight rounds.

[TKO]

Who are you? Why should I care what you say? :dunno:

Shut the fuck up - you only come back on here when Pac wins and you will soon disappear - BTW nobody cares you put a ring on that dogs paw.

[meetthefeebles]

Considering he has done shit all in those divisions, not debatable at this point.

Christ, wait until Pac actually beats a prime elite boxer in those divisions.

Yup

MTF :bears:

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

Considering he has done shit all in those divisions, not debatable at this point.

Christ, wait until Pac actually beats a prime elite boxer in those divisions.


Yup...bad thing is that Pacquiao won't fight an elite guys in those division for at least another year.....RICKY HATTON is elite...but slightly past his prime...but if PACQUIAO dominates him the way he dominated Oscar..it will give us a much clear pictures...

but come on Pacquiao
vs. Pryor?? Pryor will match him in hand speed and footspeed..and overpower him all throughtout the fight...Pryor by mid-late KO...

vs. Chavez..come on we are talking about JC Chavez..not Jesus...Jr..Chavez would brutalize him to the head and body...and stop Manny..

[Joe King]

Yup...bad thing is that Pacquiao won't fight an elite guys in those division for at least another year.....RICKY HATTON is elite...but slightly past his prime...but if PACQUIAO dominates him the way he dominated Oscar..it will give us a much clear pictures...

but come on Pacquiao
vs. Pryor?? Pryor will match him in hand speed and footspeed..and overpower him all throughtout the fight...Pryor by mid-late KO...

vs. Chavez..come on we are talking about JC Chavez..not Jesus...Jr..Chavez would brutalize him to the head and body...and stop Manny..

Pryor would beat prime Pacquiao and prime Roach at the same time

JCC would stop Manny fo sho.

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

Pryor would beat prime Pacquiao and prime Roach at the same time

JCC would stop Manny fo sho.

yes common sense...most of us understand that....now had Pacquiao done to Cotto/Margarito what he did to De La Hoya...then it might be DEBATABLE those two are big PRIME welterweights...not as good as Chavez/Pryor though but thats not the point....Pac has done nothing at 135-140-47 to make me thing he would beat Pryor..Chavez..or even Tszyu...

[meetthefeebles]

Yup...bad thing is that Pacquiao won't fight an elite guys in those division for at least another year.....RICKY HATTON is elite...but slightly past his prime...but if PACQUIAO dominates him the way he dominated Oscar..it will give us a much clear pictures...

but come on Pacquiao
vs. Pryor?? Pryor will match him in hand speed and footspeed..and overpower him all throughtout the fight...Pryor by mid-late KO...

vs. Chavez..come on we are talking about JC Chavez..not Jesus...Jr..Chavez would brutalize him to the head and body...and stop Manny..

Don't be coming here with all this 'logic' and 'perspective' business; it has no place here as well you should know...

MTF :lol:

[phonetap]

Yup...bad thing is that Pacquiao won't fight an elite guys in those division for at least another year.....RICKY HATTON is elite...but slightly past his prime...but if PACQUIAO dominates him the way he dominated Oscar..it will give us a much clear pictures...

but come on Pacquiao
vs. Pryor?? Pryor will match him in hand speed and footspeed..and overpower him all throughtout the fight...Pryor by mid-late KO...

vs. Chavez..come on we are talking about JC Chavez..not Jesus...Jr..Chavez would brutalize him to the head and body...and stop Manny..

would have picked pryor over pac, not sure abourt chavez. don't see JCC having any defense for the straight left hand...that would have been an extremely close fight.

[mikE]

would have picked pryor over pac, not sure abourt chavez. don't see JCC having any defense for the straight left hand...that would have been an extremely close fight.

The Chavez that had problems with Randall and Whitaker would have a lot more problems with Pacquiao.
The best Chavez? Harder to know.

[mexican wedding shirt]

Yup...bad thing is that Pacquiao won't fight an elite guys in those division for at least another year.....RICKY HATTON is elite...but slightly past his prime...but if PACQUIAO dominates him the way he dominated Oscar..it will give us a much clear pictures...

but come on Pacquiao
vs. Pryor?? Pryor will match him in hand speed and footspeed..and overpower him all throughtout the fight...Pryor by mid-late KO...

vs. Chavez..come on we are talking about JC Chavez..not Jesus...Jr..Chavez would brutalize him to the head and body...and stop Manny..

Pryor match Pacman for hand and footspeed? No, not by a longshot. He would surpass him for workrate though.

Pacman would batter the slow, plodding Chavez, the most overrated fighter ever alongside Tito.

[mikE]

Pryor match Pacman for hand and footspeed? No, not by a longshot. He would surpass him for workrate though.

Pacman would batter the slow, plodding Chavez, the most overrated fighter ever alongside Tito.

You overestimate Pacquiao's speed and underestimate Chavez's ability, both in ample amounts.

[mexican wedding shirt]

You overestimate Pacquiao's speed and underestimate Chavez's ability, both in ample amounts.

No.

Not only is it obvious that Pacman has excellent handspeed and very straight punches, but he also has extremely fast feet, faster than any boxer around today actually. He would make Chavez look like an oaf, as did Whitaker, only with much more attacking.

You're the one who underestimates Pacquiao's speed. Floyd is faster than Pacman? :lol: Preposterous. Prime Roy, sure, but not Flid. Like I said, watch them both against Oscar and tell me who's faster.

[mikE]

No.

Not only is it obvious that Pacman has excellent handspeed and very straight punches, but he also has extremely fast feet, faster than any boxer around today actually. He would make Chavez look like an oaf, as did Whitaker, only with much more attacking.

It wasn't all that long ago that JMM was winning rounds against Pacquiao. He isn't as good as his last fight.

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

Pryor match Pacman for hand and footspeed? No, not by a longshot. He would surpass him for workrate though.

Pacman would batter the slow, plodding Chavez, the most overrated fighter ever alongside Tito.

:rolleyes:
Pryor matches Pac hand/foot speed...throws more punches/hit harder..and considering the weight they will be fighting in..has the better chin...he would be all over Pac...


Please Pacquiao is not superman a year ago he was losing many rounds to JM Marquez..and before that he was losing to Morales at 126....but now he would beat JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ...:lol:

[Inside Whiskey's sister 24/7]

Pacquiao has a VERY FAST straight left......all his other punches are fast but nothing like the left....


WOW..beating a shot/weight drained DE LA HOYA...gives you the ability to beat most of the GREAT fighters between 130-140:crying::crying::bears:

[mexican wedding shirt]

It wasn't all that long ago that JMM was winning rounds against Pacquiao. He isn't as good as his last fight.

It wasn't all that long ago that Floyd was arguably outpointed by Castillo, and losing rounds to the part time boxer/promoter Oscar De La Hoya - you know, the guy that Pacman just treated like a heavybag :lol:

JMM is a brilliant technician and great fighter. No shame in losing rounds to him.

And regarding speed - see for yourself.

Floyd is a fast fighter in his own right, but he is more about timing/accuracy and ring intelligence really, than raw speed like a prime Roy or prime Mosley. Floyd is quick, Manny is quicker.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Dss8VYRjxKo

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nEWcApgO97g

[mexican wedding shirt]

:rolleyes:
Pryor matches Pac hand/foot speed...throws more punches/hit harder..and considering the weight they will be fighting in..has the better chin...he would be all over Pac...


Please Pacquiao is not superman a year ago he was losing many rounds to JM Marquez..and before that he was losing to Morales at 126....but now he would beat JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ...:lol:

:lol: :lol:

Ridiculous. Pryor's punches are wider, more telegraphed, and quite a bit slower.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NN2vaYANh6I

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nEWcApgO97g

[Roll With The Punches]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Dss8VYRjxKo

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nEWcApgO97g

wow

the difference in DLH is amazing...looked so much bigger, thicker, wider and healthier against Floyd

[LATIN KING]

Marquez is 0-1-1 against Pacquiao and has never come close to knocking him down, let alone out - yeah that's some proper ownage right there :lol:

You fucktard :mj:I never hype a guy because he scored knockdowns. that's what retards like you get impressed with.

Hell if anything it should be a knock on Pacquiao that he dropped JMM 3 times and couldn't close the show.

Or that he scored 4 knockdowns in two fight and loss damn near all the rounds. :kick:

[LATIN KING]

"Quit crying LATINQUEER." - Manny

:lol:
hey faggot wasn't Boom Boom Bautista gonna ko that slow ass Ponce Deleon like you said?

Hell just recently wasn't HOpkins gonna destroy HOlt?

you bring up any wrong predictions I've made but you got a whole resume of stupid shit you said.

:crying:

[Streetfighter]

Outside of RJJ Floyd is the best fighter I have actually watched. Manny is one of the most exciting fighters and I root for him all the time, but Floyd is one of the best boxers I have ever seen. I would love to see this fight at 140. Pac will be giving up a lot of height though as he did against Oscar and Floyd is a very good infighter which Oscar is not and that will cause Manny a lot of trouble. Manny will not dominate from the outside like he did against Oscar and he will not dominate by staying inside either.

[cupey alto]

anything who thinks Pacquiao would beat Aaron Pryor has no business talking about boxing.

Cupey

[Tyler Durden]

Straight from Nachos mouth, it wasn't a weight issue, it was a speed issue.

I will defeat this with one observation......did you see his legs? I am talking about "his legs" literally, let alone figuratively.

[Alabama_Man]

No I don't look at other men's legs.

[cupey alto]

I will defeat this with one observation......did you see his legs? I am talking about "his legs" literally, let alone figuratively.

Of course he didn't look at De La Hoya's legs, he's too busy sucking Pacquiao's cock!

Cupey

[Tyler Durden]

Of course he didn't look at De La Hoya's legs, he's too busy sucking Pacquiao's cock!

Cupey

The guy is an admitted peter gazer, you may be onto something. Seriously, Oscar always had bird legs, but he looked CREEPY how skinny and emaciated they looked. He looked like he was rolling around in a wheel chair for several years :lol: