Berto-Ortiz: Final Predictions

[Irish 2002/2003]

At this point, McCloskey is almost certainly a better fighter than Spaddy.

A prime Spaddy would likely make Conman look stupid, though I dunno if he'd win.

Yes, and Khan knows this, so thats why Spaddy should press the issue. He would get the fight, get the pay-day, and still be in with a chance of re-establishing himself.

He would have to watch out for the old bait-and-switch Technical-Time-Delay-Headclash-Decision, mind.

[Irish 2002/2003]

And Khan had no difficulties with his opponent last night, other than the fact he couldn't hurt him.

Khan's people, and Oscar, would disagree with you. How else do you explain the Post 4th Round TD safety valve?

Khan was going to get hit more and more as that went on.

And if you think throwing bag loads of shots and missing with most, and sometimes all, is not a difficulty, then you don't know boxing.

[Irish 2002/2003]

I'm sure Conman would rather fight Bradley than Ortiz.

Timmy isnt capable of putting him on a stretcher.

Yes but Amir has talked himself in the river. He doesn't need Bradley. If you had followed the entertainment trail last night you would have picked up on that.

The pertinent points from last nights entertainment are:

1. Ortiz did not quit at 140 he was drained.
2. Khan is pfp and 147 destined.
3. Khan does not need Bradley.
4. Khan will not fight Manny Pac, Manny Pac is his friend.
5. We don't need referees intervening in fights. Fuck the rules.

[steve_dave]

Khan's people, and Oscar, would disagree with you. How else do you explain the Post 4th Round TD safety valve?

Khan was going to get hit more and more as that went on.

And if you think throwing bag loads of shots and missing with most, and sometimes all, is not a difficulty, then you don't know boxing.

:lol: Yes, I don't know boxing.

Looked like a class difference to me. Khan wasn't that accurate... he didn't need to be. Fight was an utter mismatch.

[steve_dave]

You are nowhere near as cute as you think you are.

What was Wlads first loss?? Purritty, where he was accused of quitting.

After that quit job, he fought like an offensive machine, destroying guys.

What was Ortiz first loss? Maidana, an outright, clear as fucking day quit job.

Wins a few fights, draws with Peterson, roids up and decisions Berto and now Wlad is cunt?

Yes. Are you suggesting Wlad isn't on steroids? :lol:

[Irish 2002/2003]

:lol: Yes, I don't know boxing.

Looked like a class difference to me. Khan wasn't that accurate... he didn't need to be. Fight was an utter mismatch.

How do you know it was an "utter mismatch"....they stopped it for no good reason.


Wlad vs Purritty, Tate vs Weaver, Jefferson vs Izon, these are all utter mismatches, if you step in and stop them nice and early.

Khan is a McFlurry. Right hands are supposed to be "glued to Southpaw faces"....but then again, Eddie Futch....what the fuck, its all Freddie these days, right?

Khan looked like Chavez in there at times.


Thats Julio Cesar Chavez.



Against Pernell Whittaker.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Yes. Are you suggesting Wlad isn't on steroids? :lol:

He was drained for the Purritty fight. He weighed 220lbs or so.

I think its safe to say he just got over the draining period and came in and fought at a weight that was more natural to him.

I am sure I heard sentiment akin to that expressed last night.

Now....you have not addressed the other points.

[steve_dave]

How do you know it was an "utter mismatch"....they stopped it for no good reason.


Wlad vs Purritty, Tate vs Weaver, Jefferson vs Izon, these are all utter mismatches, if you step in and stop them nice and early.

Khan is a McFlurry. Right hands are supposed to be "glued to Southpaw faces"....but then again, Eddie Futch....what the fuck, its all Freddie these days, right?

Khan looked like Chavez in there at times.


Thats Julio Cesar Chavez.



Against Pernell Whittaker.

Neat. Still, when the fight was stopped (Paul made no case for himself to continue when the doctor was in there) Khan was having to problems.

[steve_dave]

He was drained for the Purritty fight. He weighed 220lbs or so.

I think its safe to say he just got over the draining period and came in and fought at a weight that was more natural to him.

I am sure I heard sentiment akin to that expressed last night.

Now....you have not addressed the other points.

Wasn't listening to the commentary. Was enjoying a great fight. Wasn't the time to be bitter and paranoid.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Wasn't listening to the commentary. Was enjoying a great fight. Wasn't the time to be bitter and paranoid.

Metaphorically speaking, you are not even a good fuck. Why quit the debate and start throwing chairs and stationery??

I am nearly sure Ortiz success was attributed to beating the draining and coming in at his natural weight.

It wasn't just HBO who said this. It was mentioned here, by respected forumites.

He filled out. He got off the floor to win. Filled out. Natural weight.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Neat. Still, when the fight was stopped (Paul made no case for himself to continue when the doctor was in there) Khan was having to problems.

Ah, what was McCloskey supposed to do? Ask for a soap box?

[steve_dave]

Metaphorically speaking, you are not even a good fuck. Why quit the debate and start throwing chairs and stationery??

I am nearly sure Ortiz success was attributed to beating the draining and coming in at his natural weight.

It wasn't just HBO who said this. It was mentioned here, by respected forumites.

He filled out. He got off the floor to win. Filled out. Natural weight.

OK. And?

[steve_dave]

Ah, what was McCloskey supposed to do? Ask for a soap box?

Ask, or demand that he keep fighting? :dunno:

[Irish 2002/2003]

http://myboxingfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/box_ortiz_smiles_300.jpg

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_images2/_BertoOrtiz.jpg

Filling out. Natural weight.

http://www.i-sportsbook.com/boxing/images/victor-ortiz.jpghttp://sports.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1105/box_ortiz_punchingbag_300.jpg

Filling out. Natural weight.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Ask, or demand that he keep fighting? :dunno:

Ah!! Are you saying McCloskey quit??

[steve_dave]

Cool. And?

[Irish 2002/2003]

OK. And?

Wlad has filled out. Its his natural weight, 240, not 220. He is on the same filling out programme that they are all on.

[steve_dave]

Ah!! Are you saying McCloskey quit??

Pretty much, yeah. He started with his "how could he stop it!!" act long after the fight was actually stopped.

[steve_dave]

Wlad has filled out. Its his natural weight, 240, not 220. He is on the same filling out programme that they are all on.

So he's on the juice too eh? Sucks.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Pretty much, yeah. He started with his "how could he stop it!!" act long after the fight was actually stopped.

Ah, OK, so McCloskey quit. Glad we have that on the record.

Just for what it is worth......McCloskey, out of experience, was probably waiting to be brought back to his corner so the cornerman could dab it and the doctor take another look, as is nigh-on tradition in the sport when a cut emerges during the round.

What did you think of Barreras cut in the Khan fight? What did you think of that being allowed to go 4 rounds, and then stopped as soon as the 4th round was completed.??

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3472/3386347691_e46cd24700.jpg http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01372/marco_antonio_barr_1372727c.jpg

[Irish 2002/2003]

So he's on the juice too eh? Sucks.

No, he is on the same filling-out programme that Ortiz is on.

[Xplosive]

Yes but Amir has talked himself in the river. He doesn't need Bradley.

I think he'll go ahead with the Bradley fight. Timmy doesnt strike fear in anyone. Conman probably believes he can win. But then again.... Oscar and Shaefer are probably less confident in his chances.

But I STILL think Con can beat Bradley.

[Irish 2002/2003]

I think he'll go ahead with the Bradley fight. Timmy doesnt strike fear in anyone. Conman probably believes he can win. But then again.... Oscar and Shaefer are probably less confident in his chances.

But I STILL think Con can beat Bradley.

He can win, but he won't beat him.

You mark my words, after 7 rounds Khan will be 4-3, 5-2 up, flagging, and Timmys well documented head-butts will cause the fight to be stopped on an unintentional butt {that way nobody needs to be DQ'd , and the ending will be merely "disappointing"}

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

Regardless if he wins...Ortiz still has some BITCH in him...in round 6 when he look like he was DONE he kept his chin in the air IMO hoping that Berto would just hit him a few times and the ref stop the fight...then he landed that left hook...and got some juice back in his balls for a minute...

And Berto...WOW...what the fuck is wrong with him...? Yeah he isn't very good...
This might be the worst post i have ever seen on a message board.

Ortiz fought like a courageous motha fucker at every stage of the fight.

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

Ortiz vs Mike Jones makes sense. But given Jones is with TR, it likely wont happen.

Who else can Ortiz fight?
It should be a rematch with Berto after last nights fight.

[Irish 2002/2003]

This might be the worst post i have ever seen on a message board.

Ortiz fought like a courageous motha fucker at every stage of the fight.

He fought like a player who held 3 aces to his opponents 1.

He's still a quitter. Once a quitter always a quitter, after all.

[steve_dave]

At least he wasn't dominating the Maidana fight when he quit.

[Irish 2002/2003]

At least he wasn't dominating the Maidana fight when he quit.

He had scored 3 knockdowns. Sounds pretty dominant to me.

And if 3 knockdowns is not dominant, then it must take a pretty gutsy and entertaining effort to turn that around for a decision win. :crafty:

Oh well.

[steve_dave]

He had scored 3 knockdowns. Sounds pretty dominant to me.

And if 3 knockdowns is not dominant, then it must take a pretty gutsy and entertaining effort to turn that around for a decision win. :crafty:

Oh well.

Yeah, but if you watched the fight, you would know he was getting his butt kicked.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Yeah, but if you watched the fight, you would know he was getting his butt kicked.

Max Kellerman didn't, and he was fucking there!!!!

[steve_dave]

Max Kellerman didn't, and he was fucking there!!!!

Cool. Kellerman had the night off last night, though.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Cool. Kellerman had the night off last night, though.

Yeah, pity that, I would have loved to hear what he had to say.

Listen, I don't hate anyone, I'm just tired of what I perceive as a double standard and a persistent, relentless corporate hustle.

[mexican wedding shirt]

I think he'll go ahead with the Bradley fight. Timmy doesnt strike fear in anyone. Conman probably believes he can win. But then again.... Oscar and Shaefer are probably less confident in his chances.

But I STILL think Con can beat Bradley.

Did you hear what Oscar said after the fight??

A complete 180 on the previous "Khan is fighting Bradley if he beats McCloskey".

After the fight Oscar was like "Yeah well, he might fight Bradley, but really, he can fight who he wants, because he's the man at 140, we don't need to go chasing anyone".

Oscar doesn't fancy Khan against Timmy now.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Did you hear what Oscar said after the fight??

A complete 180 on the previous "Khan is fighting Bradley if he beats McCloskey".

After the fight Oscar was like "Yeah well, he might fight Bradley, but really, he can fight who he wants, because he's the man at 140, we don't need to go chasing anyone".

Oscar doesn't fancy Khan against Timmy now.

But he surely knows what is going on at 147 with Ortiz.......
......you mark my words, if Oscar has to chose between Ortiz and Khan, he sells Khan short, every time.

Look for Khan to TechD Bradley, then make the Ortiz fight for huge $$$ and get smashed.

[mexican wedding shirt]

Steve, I disagree that it was a mismatch and that Khan had no trouble.

Yes Khan was winning handily, but against a guy he couldn't hurt (because he's not really a puncher) and against a guy with pretty good defense, his brainless, robot style didn't work as well as usual.

Khan just mindlessly throws shots like a robot without actually thinking about what he's doing.

He was winning handily because McCloskey has awful offense and wasn't really doing anything other than expose Khan's basic offense.

Irish - yeah I think Ortiz would beat the absolute shit out of Khan at 147 actually.

[mexican wedding shirt]

Steve, I disagree that it was a mismatch and that Khan had no trouble.

Yes Khan was winning handily, but against a guy he couldn't hurt (because he's not really a puncher) and against a guy with pretty good defense, his brainless, robot style didn't work as well as usual.

Khan just mindlessly throws shots like a robot without actually thinking about what he's doing.

He was winning handily because McCloskey has awful offense and wasn't really doing anything other than expose Khan's basic offense.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Steve, I disagree that it was a mismatch and that Khan had no trouble.

Yes Khan was winning handily, but against a guy he couldn't hurt (because he's not really a puncher) and against a guy with pretty good defense, his brainless, robot style didn't work as well as usual.

Khan just mindlessly throws shots like a robot without actually thinking about what he's doing.

He was winning handily because McCloskey has awful offense and wasn't really doing anything other than expose Khan's basic offense.

What were Khans connect percentages, does anyone know? He hit a lot of gloves and arms or just plain missed.

[steve_dave]

What were Khans connect percentages, does anyone know? He hit a lot of gloves and arms or just plain missed.

According to HBO, 25%.

[Irish 2002/2003]

According to HBO, 25%.

:truce:

Thats about standard, right?

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

He fought like a player who held 3 aces to his opponents 1.

He's still a quitter. Once a quitter always a quitter, after all.
Lots of great fighters have quit and for good reason boxing is extremely tough. Ortiz-Maidana was an epic fight for as long as it lasted.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Lots of great fighters have quit and for good reason boxing is extremely tough. Ortiz-Maidana was an epic fight for as long as it lasted.

Wow. Whats changed in the last 10 years, man?

[Xplosive]

Forget Ortiz, I'd bet the house on Berto cleaning Conman's clock. Conman wouldnt have a speed edge over Berto, and Berto is by FAR a bigger puncher.

[steve_dave]

Steve, I disagree that it was a mismatch and that Khan had no trouble.

Yes Khan was winning handily, but against a guy he couldn't hurt (because he's not really a puncher) and against a guy with pretty good defense, his brainless, robot style didn't work as well as usual.

Khan just mindlessly throws shots like a robot without actually thinking about what he's doing.

He was winning handily because McCloskey has awful offense and wasn't really doing anything other than expose Khan's basic offense.

Come on Mex, it was an obvious mismatch. Two different levels.

[mexican wedding shirt]

Come on Mex, it was an obvious mismatch. Two different levels.

In a way yes, I said so before the fight, that McCloskey is basically a Euro level fighter and that I didn't give him a realistic chance of beating Khan.

Even without the cut, he had no chance of winning, realistically. He can't punch and he was far too behind, and he has no real offense to speak of.

However, the ONLY reason I can't call it a complete mismatch, is McCloskey's tricky style and defense DID show Khan's offense up as what me and Hut Hut have been saying for years, robotic, mindless, amateurish etc.

Which is enough to dominate the McCloskey's of the world, just throw loads of mindless, fast, straight punches.

The gap in physical ability was a mismatch, but Khan was still exposed to some degree.

His offense is incredibly basic and amateurish (just lots of fast, straight, rangey punches to score points, JUST like an amateur fighter) and he is not a clever fighter or a "boxer".

I'll be very surprised if he beats Bradley to be honest.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Khan is right there to be countered to death or pressured into exhaustion. McCloskey was going to make him look worse and worse as the fight wore on. I'm sorry, but its not a "Mismatch" if after 6 rounds one guy has managed to "win all the rounds" without seriously discomfiting his rival via Knockdown, or a 10-8 round etc.

[Hut*Hut]

That ring announcer was a heavy mess btw. Somebody cut that hippies hair before they besmirch my eyes with him again.

[mexican wedding shirt]

That ring announcer was a heavy mess btw. Somebody cut that hippies hair before they besmirch my eyes with him again.

There's only one thing I hate more than whiteboy dreads, and that's whiteboy dreads on TV in a suit.

That guy needs a fucking kick in the teeth. What an awful, awful substitute for buffer.

[steve_dave]

Yeah, they were hyping that guy... his catch phrase was garbage, he looked like a fucking clown, and he basically just mimics Lupe Contreras' delivery.

[Dog Jones]

This fight actually got attention on PTI

[Xplosive]

This fight actually got attention on PTI

What'd they say?

[steve_dave]

What'd they say?

Probably Wilbon talking about how much he loves boxing, even though he has never heard of Ortiz or Berto. :lol:

[Xplosive]

Wilbon is a waste of life.

[*Z*]

Berto UD. 9-3 in rounds. In a fight that we will all call boring, and it will be Berto's fault.

Just wanted to laugh at myself for my prediction of a boring fight. The first 6 rounds were awesome. Then Berto realized he was going to get knocked out and applied the stink.

[mexican wedding shirt]

Pretty much. Berto's holding is annoying, and he was being pretty negative at times.

The second half of the fight was so so, but for the first half alone, it was an excellent fight.

[*Z*]

Pretty much. Berto's holding is annoying, and he was being pretty negative at times.

The second half of the fight was so so, but for the first half alone, it was an excellent fight.

First half was a great for sure, I watched with a buddy who is not all that into boxing and he loved it.

[Dog Jones]

What'd they say?

Kornheiser sounded excited, Wilbon says he would have stopped it during the minute or so after Berto dropped Ortiz with the right hand and before Ortiz dropped Berto himself

[Hut*Hut]

Good fight, this, just rewatching it now. Ortiz kicked fuck out him.

[Hut*Hut]

Round by round scoring after factoring KDs and deductions

1 :10-8 (should be 10-7)
2: 9-9
3: 10-9
4: 10-9
5: 10-9
6: 8-9
7: 10-9
8: 9-10
9: 10-9
10: 9-10
11: 10-9
12: 10-9

115-109 Ortiz. Rounds 6 and 8 were the only ones Berto got the better of, Ortiz beat him up.

[Muzse]

Wilbon is a waste of life.

You should love Wilbon...he reguarly calls Mayweather a "coward." In fact, he doesn't refer to Mayweather by name...always says "the coward."

:laughing:

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

You should love Wilbon...he reguarly calls Mayweather a "coward." In fact, he doesn't refer to Mayweather by name...always says "the coward."

:laughing:
I wonder what he would call him in a dark alley somewhere with nobody else around.

[Xplosive]

You should love Wilbon...he reguarly calls Mayweather a "coward." In fact, he doesn't refer to Mayweather by name...always says "the coward."

:laughing:

Wilbon doesnt know boxing from his dick. I dont listen to anything he says when boxing comes up.

[Joe King]

I wonder what he would call him in a dark alley somewhere with nobody else around.

Floyd, or Mr. Mayweather.

[royyjonesjrp4pno1]

Just wanted to laugh at myself for my prediction of a boring fight. The first 6 rounds were awesome. Then Berto realized he was going to get knocked out and applied the stink.
I was expecting the same thing.

[Muzse]

Wilbon doesnt know boxing from his dick. I dont listen to anything he says when boxing comes up.

I like Wilbon...he knows enough to call Floyd a coward for ducking Pacquaio.

I preferred listening to him over Stephen A. Smith when Smith had his show. Smith fawned over nearly everyone....especially Floyd when he'd drop by the set. It was embarassing at times.

[loadedgloves]

I like Wilbon...he knows enough to call Floyd a coward for ducking Pacquaio.

I preferred listening to him over Stephen A. Smith when Smith had his show. Smith fawned over nearly everyone....especially Floyd when he'd drop by the set. It was embarassing at times.

Anyone who thinks Floyd ducked Pac doesn't know their dick from their earlobe.

[Double L]

I find it encouraging that we're all in agreement that Berto straight up can't box.

[Irish 2002/2003]

Anyone who thinks Floyd ducked Pac doesn't know their dick from their earlobe.

They didn't fight, and Floyd injected {ha ha} some pretty unusual stipulations into the pre-fight negotiations which ultimately scuppered the fight. Did he duck him? Not in the traditional sense, but......Floyds demands were the reason the fight did not get made.

[Destruction and Mayhem]

I like Wilbon...he knows enough to call Floyd a coward for ducking Pacquaio.

I preferred listening to him over Stephen A. Smith when Smith had his show. Smith fawned over nearly everyone....especially Floyd when he'd drop by the set. It was embarassing at times.

Dude...your obsessive hatred of Floyd is disturbing.

"I like Wilborn, because he hates Floyd"
"I hate Smith, because he loves Floyd"


etc etc etc

[Muzse]

Dude...your obsessive hatred of Floyd is disturbing.

"I like Wilborn, because he hates Floyd"
"I hate Smith, because he loves Floyd"


etc etc etc


PTI almost never mentions boxing...I watch the show because I like wilbon's take on the NBA which is his specialty.

Stephen A. Smith is a windbag who talks to hear himself speak. has nothing to do with floyd specifically.

Do/did you watch either show?

There's a reason PTI has been on for 7 years vs Smith's show lasting a year.

[loadedgloves]

They didn't fight, and Floyd injected {ha ha} some pretty unusual stipulations into the pre-fight negotiations which ultimately scuppered the fight. Did he duck him? Not in the traditional sense, but......Floyds demands were the reason the fight did not get made.

I look at it as Pacquiao's making bullshit excuses to not take drug tests being the reason the fight was scrapped. Floyd agreed to every stipulation Pacquiao wanted, including a rather ambitious 50-50 split on Pac's part. Why was Pac making lame excuses about being scared of needles?

Oh, right, because he's on EPO and more.

[mexican wedding shirt]

I look at it as Pacquiao's making bullshit excuses to not take drug tests being the reason the fight was scrapped. Floyd agreed to every stipulation Pacquiao wanted, including a rather ambitious 50-50 split on Pac's part. Why was Pac making lame excuses about being scared of needles?

Oh, right, because he's on EPO and more.

It seems Floyd doesn't agree with you that he's "much" better than Pacquiao, because guess what, if he did he would just sign the contract and get his easy 50 million, steroids or not.

[Jimmy]

Quality fight. Round 6 especially.

Based on Ortiz' fight vs Berto and Khan's fight vs McCloskey, I can see Ortiz really giving Khan hell and has a very big chance of beating Khan.

I think Khan will try to avoid Ortiz as long as he can.