Has MMA pretty much exposed the tradiional chinese/japanese martial arts as myth? Or do the gloves/rules just favour basic muay thai/boxing and ground fighting? Just curious.
traditional japanese martial arts consist of juijitsu and judo which are widely used in maa, more so than other arts i think. if you mean striking arts, muay thai and boxing are the only effective striking art.
Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, and Thai boxing are all integrated into most dominant MMA styles. If anything, MMA has exposed that one style dominance is a myth ala UFC 1-4.
It's weird to ever say that anybody had only 1 style, because even pure Jiu Jitsu specialsts with nothing else to their repertoire often punched and kicked. Does that mean they used 2 styles(Jiu Jitsu and kickboxing)? Even Royce who claimed to be only a Gracie Jiu Jitsu fighter threw kicks and punches in the first few UFCs he won.
You learn how to throw punches and kicks in BJJ. In advanced classes you are taught to use them to setup a takedown or clinch. If you're talking purely about Royce, well anyone can throw a punch and not necessarily be a boxer or kick boxer. A punch is a pretty well known attack that people have been doing for millenia. But his primary style was that of a BJJ artist.
What about the muay thai/bjj/sambo combo? Wouldn't a fighter versed in all three be a fucking badass? :warning:
What about Kung Fu and Karate; probably the two styles which most immediately spring to peoples mind; where do they fit in? Ive never really heard those mentioned in MMA. Have they pretty much been discarded or are they just too dangerous (joint locks, bone breaking techniques etc) or too focused on multible attackers to be useful in the octagon ala Krav Maga & Systema? Also is there a reason you dont see softer styles like Aikido & combat Tai Chi in the octagon?
I saw a guy use a style called "Exotics" once. He got f*cked up badly in about 30 seconds. His promo looked cool though, as if he was a master of various arts.::
kung fu and karate DO work on the street. But it depends mostly on the skill level of the opponent. If you know how to kick, then you can kick the sh*t out of alot of people on the street. I wouldn't crap on kungfu or karate that quickly just because it's not a favourable art in MMA. It'll work on average street guys who know nothing about fighting, other than wild looping haymakers.
Are zanzhou and kungfu thesame? I mean zanzhous is basically striking w/ takedown thats why im suprised that only cung lee <as far as i know> have that style in mma.
Any type of fight training will help you against someone with no training at all. Just knowing the proper way to kick or punch will definitely give you an advantage over your average street flailer.
:: no offense, but that was a pretty stupid question. Why the fuck wouldn't they use a technique cause it's dangerous ??? Back to the topic, those technicque suck, and they're mostly not used for real fighting. Theyr praticionner don't do any real sparring
zahzhhou is china's attempt to create its own mma because kunfu/wushu isnt practical in mma, its a set of rules not a style.
I'm a boxing supremacist, but, surprisingly, my take's different than the one shared by most. The problem with those arts like Kung-Fu, Tai Kwon Do and even Karate (yes it use to be a joke m.a. but it has improve a lot ) ain'T the technic itself, it's the lack of real competition. Go to the average "dojo" and you'll see clowns doing kata and old woman who think they can kick ass because they're able to lift their leg above their fat stomach. If they devellop a serious structure around these sports ( yes I know tae kwon doe is in the olympics but it's a micky mouse medal ), I think they would be able to devellop ( boxing has change radically from what it used to be for example ), get rid of the thing that don't work and be as lethal as any striking art.
Cause it's a sport, not a fucking death match, you spaz. Try putting your own brain into gear before insulting me. How long do you think MMA would last if every match ended in a broken limb or a fatality?
I think this actually hits the nail on the head, thanks. You can have the most advanced system in the world, but if there isn't any SERIOUS sparring it'll be less effective for learning combat than two untrained kids beating the shit out of each other in their back garden every other day.
:: you're a clown, I guess they prefer getting ktfo instead. Fighter don't care about huritn theyr opponents, as long as it enable them to avoid damage. You've watched too much movie
Well einstein, you may not have noticed but there are a few rules in UFC. And just because you don't see groin strikes in the octagon doesn't mean they're not effective on the street. By the same token, you think Mr SAS takes out his enemies in hand to hand combat with a spinning shin kick to the head? :doh: No, he snaps their fucking spine. and btw Im gonna go out on a limb here and say, yeah MMA fighters probably would rather get KOd than blinded, paralysed, maimed or killed :kick:
groin strikes were allowed in mma in the beginning:doh: and i see reading comprehension is not your strong suit, so I'll stop wasting my time
groin shots and eye pokes are very dangerous techniques no matter who are you... you know what wins real fights?? sucker punches and fighting in numbers...noone gives a fuck if the guy who got knocked out by a sucker punch would win in an MMA fight. fighting and training nearly everyday id say youd have to be the fastest man in history to pull some shit like a stomp to the kneecap or a punch to the throat...but techniques like eye gouges and headbutts and biting are very effective. and a kung-fu practioner or karateka who takes their shit serious will be able to bludgeon the muscleman who thinks since he watches UFC he knows how to grapple and street fight 95% of the time, because hes got fighting muscles and strength that those guys do not have. point: There are many martial arts practioners who can lay furious beatdowns out and would be a stern challenge for anyone...but martial arts that do not spar will not be effective in the ring against someone who does spar. ex: Wallid Ismael dropped Tank Abbott in a street scrap and he is a 5'6 jiu jitsu player...street fighting is very unexpected and usually comes down to more aggressive and quicker to throw being the winner, not better boxer or wrestler.
uh huh and they aren't now, are they, einstein of montreal? Why? Because they were banned for being too fucking dangerous and excessivly unpleasant for the combatants, just as are many, many other techniques featured in various combat systems are. So now that we've established that my original question was valid, you can go back and get back to drinking your varnish or whatever else your impressive regime of mental exercise involves.:shit:
dsimon writes: There are a lot of misconceptions in this thread. Some of them are well intentioned other observationsare actually on the mark. I studied Karate in a fighting club for about 15 years and got a second degree black belt in Okinawan Karate before moving on to other arts. Allow me to make a few points about karate that might help this debate: 1) Karate and Mixed Martial Arts: You have to train live in Karate, whether you call it sparring, or as we did fighting. But here is something I discussed with Lok: I have never seen any figher use karate properly in a MMA event. Karate is not kick boxing, you do not bounce up and down when throwing karate techniques. Karate when used properly by fighters in karate (like John Blume) has never been put to the test in MMA, only guys claiming to do modified styles of karate that resemble kick boxing. 2) Karate is not designed to be used in a ring. That does not make it more or less deadly, but it makes it hard to adopt it to sports. A lot of people spend a lot of time adopting traditional arts to the ring, but you can't make them work as well against somoene who has a better grasp of a training environment. MMA developed in the ring as a way to fight against one opponent and prove superiority. The Gracies adopted Ju Jutsu to the same purpose. My training in Ju Jutsu (old Japanese arts) and Karate works great but as a bouncer, for example, I did things differently than an MMA guy would do. Karate works on the principle that when you hit somoene properly you will inflict a crtain amount of damage. This is not based on hitting to areas where a person can protect, atemi waza (as it is called) are to areas that are fatal or incapacitating... al the areas that are not allowed in a sports event. If somoene grabs at a traditional Karate fighter they would probably get a strike to the trachea, or Plexus... on the Zyphiod bone. Unfortunately people have basterdized karate and by trying to adopt it with stupid point sparring (you have to really fight with each other) and bouncing around they have taken the teeth out of an otherwise great art. It is safer to do MMA actually. when I was training I probably got about 2 concussions and once almost needed a tracheatomy when Sensei caught me int he throat with a knife hand.
Nothing beats a good old kick in the nuts.:clap: The simplest and deadliest move in the history of combat. Remember how Matt Hughes, despite all his accolades and skills as an MMA champion, reacted to a good ol' kick in the nuts twice from GSP? He was reduced to his knees, crying and whining in agony.:: Some champion he was! What did his world class wrestling do for him then?
