Is it fair to say that Eastern European's emergence as the best heavy-weights....

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by Double L, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    ...is the reason nobody gives a fuck about the division anymore and why 90% of the fights there are bore-fests, unless, for example, someone like Lewis or Peter is involved and the robots' metal is tested and they're actually made to fight?
     
  2. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Yes I would say that it is their tactical brilliance that has proven to be too much for the dumb people elsewhere and their intelligent boxing is too difficult for everybody else to understand
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  3. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    smarter or not, their pay-days will continue to diminish, and heavy-weight boxing wiol become the step child of the sport.
     
  4. dymipepel

    dymipepel Im Banned

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    Eastern European fighters are total crap. Did you notice that whenever a given division becomes totally devoid of talent, Eastern Euros are there to take over, while if a division has at least one elite fighter, Eastern Euros are nowhere in sight?
    Case in point: cruisers. Vasily Jirov was the champ, while the division was totally empty. As soon as division became alive with guys like Toney, Mormeck, Haye, etc...... Jirov was gone, unable to handle the higher level of competition.
    Case in point: welterweights. The division is star-studded, with guys like PBF, Cotto, Quintana, Baldomir, etc, and with lower-end guys like Margarito, Williams etc. There's not a single Eastern Euro among the best of the division.....except interim champion Nuzhnenko, who's actually a Cotto's mandatory (Nuzhnenko is so bad, Cotto will probably drop his belt, rather than waste his time with the bum).
    Case in point: heavyweights. When the division was chock-full of fighters such as Lennox, Holy, Tyson, Eastern Euro bums were nowhere to be found. When Quitaly finally found the balls to step up and face an old Lennox, he got beaten up so badly, the fight had to be stopped, out of fears that Quitaly's face might disintegrate.
    Case in point: welterweights. While guys like Tito, PBF, Oscar, Quartey, Whitaker, Mosley were fighting each other for boxing supremacy, Kostya Zoo somehow managed to avoid ALL of them, prefering to fight no-hopers like Mitchell.
    Case in point: junior-middleweights: while guys like Tito, PBF, Oscar, Quartey, Whitaker, Mosley were fighting each other for boxing supremacy, Roman Karmazin somehow managed to avoid all of them, preferring to lose to no-hopers like Castilejo and Bunema.

    Bottom line: if a boxing division has at least one legitimate elite boxer, Eastern Euros are nowhere to be found.
    Eastern Euros are like vultures: descending on weak and dead divisions, while avoiding the most stacked divisions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  5. Mitchell Kane

    Mitchell Kane WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    It's probably closer to being the exact opposite.

    Eastern European fans like those from Russia, Ukraine, Poland, etc. usually support "their" fighters in the US more than American fight fans support "theirs".

    Even an entertaining American champion like Brewster didn't draw well in the US...which is why he defended his title in Europe.

    The most heavily attended of his US title defenses was against Golota in Chicago...because of Polish fans.

    Americans like Tony Thompson, Calvin Brock and Chris Arreola aren't huge draws.

    Toney and Rahman are both past it, but it's not like they were huge draws when they were near the top of the division.

    Also, there seems to be a pretty wide net being cast on Eastern Europeans. Maskaev isn't what I'd call a boring fighter, neither is Chagaev. I wouldn't call fighters like Golota, Liakhovich, Povetkin, Platov, or Boytsov boring either.

    Even Vitali Klitschko wasn't exactly boring...his fights with Lewis, Sanders, Williams and Johnson weren't boring...and he didn't really play it safe in any of those fights.
     
  6. Mitchell Kane

    Mitchell Kane WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Here's a question: How entertained were you by Toney-Rahman, Ruiz-Toney (or Toney-Ruiz), Ruiz-Rahman?
     
  7. Azazel

    Azazel "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Far, far more than by yesterday garbage, or than Valuev-Bergeron/Lyakhovich, or than Iggy-Holyfield/Briggs
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  8. lb 4 lb

    lb 4 lb Fightbeat Gold Member

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    Agree with everything except Vitali getting beaten up so badly. He held his own though he did lose.
     
  9. ArturoGatti

    ArturoGatti WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    yeah, the great Samuel Peter. What's the use of being exciting when you are so bad even McCline wipes the floor with you?:lol:
     
  10. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    the financial aspect was argu,emtative, and probably a faiing one.

    my major point is, heavyweight fights aren't fin to wach anymore -- at least not in general. and i'm asking the question, is that due to the emergence of more and more eastern euopea s who rarely war with each other and create zero excitement in fsvor of techincal smarts.
     
  11. lb 4 lb

    lb 4 lb Fightbeat Gold Member

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    You watch yourself AG, you know damn well Wlad ruined Peter. :lol:
     
  12. Mitchell Kane

    Mitchell Kane WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    John Ruiz and Chris Byrd were two of the most criticized heavyweights of recent memory, in terms of entertainment value, and neither were Eastern European.

    On the other hand, Vitali Klitschko was actually an entertaining champion. The last four fights of his career were all re-watchable.

    The fight was not very exciting last night. I just think it's a little too easy to start using that fight to start making general arguments.
     
  13. ArturoGatti

    ArturoGatti WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    :lol:

    Peter got famous off of one good KO win. And by good, I mean it was a good ko, not really taht good of a win.
     
  14. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    i don't know. first of all the thread is posed as a question, so don't address me like i've made a claim one way or the other.

    secomndly, vitali's exciting fights were the exceptiond - in general he 1-2'd a guy half his size until he either dropped or 12 roumds pssed. \\
     
  15. Mitchell Kane

    Mitchell Kane WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Yeah, you were being very objective.

    They're the reason "nobody gives a fuck about the division anymore" and "why 90% of the fights there are bore-fests".
     
  16. ArturoGatti

    ArturoGatti WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    :lol:

    come on, he is just asking a question.
     
  17. dymipepel

    dymipepel Im Banned

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    And how often has 12 rounds passed in Vitaly's career?
     
  18. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    ruiz/tomey was awesome !!!nruiz/rahman? not as much. toney/rahman? average. rahman's a stinker - he seems to contradict the theory.
     
  19. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    i ask the question. i don't make the claim. you're sensitive like a bitch.
     
  20. lb 4 lb

    lb 4 lb Fightbeat Gold Member

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    :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
     
  21. dsimon3387

    dsimon3387 WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    dsimon writes:

    Very interesting observation. The tendencies you speak of are real. There might be other explanations but the observation is a good one.

    When I see the Eastern Euro guys fight I do notice that they have some skills but do not look elite.

    I would also say that their Olmpic success is a feather in your cap. I think that Olmpic boxing has also declined though, along with the professional ranks. I think the same tendency could explain why the Eastern Euro guys have olmpic success. I also acknowedge that you could make the point that Olmpic skills do not translate professionally and question how great some of the fighters I think are elite truly are. In other words if you brought out Lazlo I would have to concede that you might have a point.:lol:

    The Eastern Euro guys don't have footwork, they cannot punch hard and have none of the refinements that seem characteristic of the elites.

    Good post D.:bears:
     
  22. Mitchell Kane

    Mitchell Kane WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Corection: you use the question to make the claim.
     
  23. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    correction: i ask the question to invite arguments from both side.
     
  24. TKO

    TKO Administrator Staff Member

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    Well that is the American way....
     
  25. Roll With The Punches

    Roll With The Punches WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    could the lack of acceptance of european fighters purely be a backblash against european superiority? :dunno:
     
  26. His_Royness

    His_Royness "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    do you try to come off more lika an american idiot lately? Wlad can't punch hard or waht? :doh:
     
  27. KaukipRrr

    KaukipRrr "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    In for a quick nibble.
    :crafty: We ban OC and all of a sudden whitey starts taking a pounding, is this a victory party or what?..
     
  28. dsimon3387

    dsimon3387 WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    dsimon writes:

    Vlad is trained in the USA asswipe by the premier US trainer in the sport. He and his brother are exceptions to the rule but never the less that alone does not invalidate the rule. And... they share many of the same characteristics despite their punching ability, of other guys from the area. Also Dim's point stands because Vlad is not an established elite fighter, his win over Peter looking less impressive every day.
     
  29. His_Royness

    His_Royness "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    okay :rolleyes:
     
  30. salaco

    salaco Undisputed Champion

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    Wlad is not an established elite fighter? :lol:
    That's possibly a new low for this forum
     

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