I hate BJJ

[Hut*Hut]

I can see where you're coming from but i assure you after some BJJ guy rips your elbow in two or dislocates a knee, ankle most guys would feel that settles a FUCKLOAD... at least for that day and some months of rehab...

KOing someone with a hayemaker to the jaw is also just getting out of the fight... ;)

true. I guess it's just the fact that a 15 year old girl could probably tap a 200lb man given the right leverage takes something out of the concept of a fight as a contest of strength and wills between two men. In the end it just feels much less impressive and primal.

[TFK]

Most street fights end up on the ground anyway, so it's better to be good with BJJ then to be good with your hands.

TFK

[Hut*Hut]

Most street fights end up on the ground anyway, so it's better to be good with BJJ then to be good with your hands.

TFK

What percentage of street fights involving people who are good with their hands (that aren't against trained grapplers) end up on the ground though? Very few. There are many reasons I would rather be a skilled boxer on the street than a BJJ practitioner, but we'll leave that debate for another time.

[Azazel]

not the majority of street fights end up on the ground, thats bs, in fact its the other way around. I ve seen more than my share of streetfights ( not necessarely that I was personnaly involved but I go out a lot and Montreal is kind of renkonwed for having a lot of street fights ) and none ended up on the ground for long except one when I was in a high shcool ( typical hs fight where people circle them to watch ). In real life, you dont want to end up on the ground as you are way too vulnerable to a soccer kick or stomp from someone else.

[Azazel]

true. I guess it's just the fact that a 15 year old girl could probably tap a 200lb man given the right leverage takes something out of the concept of a fight as a contest of strength and wills between two men. In the end it just feels much less impressive and primal.

not even close, if you have a decent strenght advantage, you are pretty much immune to every bjj tactics

[Azazel]

true. I guess it's just the fact that a 15 year old girl could probably tap a 200lb man given the right leverage takes something out of the concept of a fight as a contest of strength and wills between two men. In the end it just feels much less impressive and primal.

not even close, if you have a decent strenght advantage, you are pretty much immune to every bjj tactics ( unelss you tired of course )

[Hut*Hut]

not the majority of street fights end up on the ground, thats bs, in fact its the other way around. I ve seen more than my share of streetfights ( not necessarely that I was personnaly involved but I go out a lot and Montreal is kind of renkonwed for having a lot of street fights ) and none ended up on the ground for long except one when I was in a high shcool ( typical hs fight where people circle them to watch ). In real life, you dont want to end up on the ground as you are way too vulnerable to a soccer kick or stomp from someone else.

Agreed. I once read an article formatted as a round table interview with a bunch of guys who taught street defense for a living and they were fairly unanimous in their opinion that that stat about most street fights ending on the ground was BS too. They were certainly unanimous that it isn't applicable to guys who are trained to fight. And in any case, deliberately taking the fight to the ground in your average street situation is an insane tactic and one you should try to avoid if at all possible.

[His_Royness]

true. I guess it's just the fact that a 15 year old girl could probably tap a 200lb n given the right leverage

no way but yeah... prolly as easy as Ivan Calderon would whoop me in a stand up fight...

[His_Royness]

not the majority of street fights end up on the ground, thats bs, in fact its the other way around. I ve seen more than my share of streetfights ( not necessarely that I was personnaly involved but I go out a lot and Montreal is kind of renkonwed for having a lot of street fights ) and none ended up on the ground for long except one when I was in a high shcool ( typical hs fight where people circle them to watch ). In real life, you dont want to end up on the ground as you are way too vulnerable to a soccer kick or stomp from someone else.

Yeah of course none end on the ground... because no one has a fucking clue what to do there...

What's the fucking point, lol.

[Hut*Hut]

Yeah of course none end on the ground... because no one has a fucking clue what to do there...

What's the fucking point, lol.

TFK made the point that BJJ is better than boxing for the street because most fights end on the ground. Me and Azazel disagreed with him.

[His_Royness]

TFK made the point that BJJ is better than boxing for the street because most fights end on the ground. Me and Azazel disagreed with him.

It's pretty simple on the street - talking about stupid fights jackasses like you and me should better stay out of anyways, none of the guys have any skills. Because the people who have, train at a gym and do something with it.

So if you can do ONE thing good, may it be striking or BJJ or whatever you will whip most of the clowns on the "street".

If a boxer has no takedown defense and the BJJ guy knows how to score one then the boxer has the chance of a lucky punch and that's about it.

The more well rounded you are the better that's why the GOOD MMA guys can do anything including grappling. If you lack in one department it's going to be exposed.


Me i have no clue what most streetfights look like so i dunno who is wrong or right here, but a boxer against a BJJ guy - the boxer better lands quick or most of that shit WILL definitely hit the ground.

[mexican wedding shirt]

hahahahaha really?

at least karl can somewhat back up when he tries to act like a badass...you im not so sure.

Fuck you.

[winner by choke]

not even close, if you have a decent strenght advantage, you are pretty much immune to every bjj tactics ( unelss you tired of course )

if you are ever near SD we can roll or spar and me being inactive for about a year and 140 LBS surely you will have a big strength advantage over me.

you can show your immunity to all bjj techniques.

[winner by choke]

It's pretty simple on the street - talking about stupid fights jackasses like you and me should better stay out of anyways, none of the guys have any skills. Because the people who have, train at a gym and do something with it.

So if you can do ONE thing good, may it be striking or BJJ or whatever you will whip most of the clowns on the "street".

If a boxer has no takedown defense and the BJJ guy knows how to score one then the boxer has the chance of a lucky punch and that's about it.

The more well rounded you are the better that's why the GOOD MMA guys can do anything including grappling. If you lack in one department it's going to be exposed.


Me i have no clue what most streetfights look like so i dunno who is wrong or right here, but a boxer against a BJJ guy - the boxer better lands quick or most of that shit WILL definitely hit the ground.

what happened when joe frazier and muhammad ali scuffled?

holmes/berbick?

tyson/lewis?

rahman/lewis?

pernell whitaker when he was beaten up by a police officer?

even when boxers fight, typically in a real fight, the fight hits the ground. im a blue belt in jiu jitsu and a good grappler could score a takedown and pummel me right through my sprawl/guard game.

i fail to see how any boxer that does not either have a huge mass or natural athleticism advantage could even stop a takedown from a good high school wrestler, let alone a world class grappler.

david haye thinks lightweights in the UFC could beat the majority of heavyweight boxers in a real fight(which i disagree with). and he certainly thinks the heavyweights could as well. as do oneil bell, floyd mayweather sr, thomas hearns, roy jones jr, george foreman, and mike tyson. you know what they all have in common?

experience fighting in the street and in other martial art disciplines.

this is not to count out any world class boxer from beating up any mixed martial artist (although in a "fair" fight it would be highly unlikely)

[Hut*Hut]

what happened when joe frazier and muhammad ali scuffled?

holmes/berbick?

tyson/lewis?

rahman/lewis?

pernell whitaker when he was beaten up by a police officer?

even when boxers fight, typically in a real fight, the fight hits the ground. im a blue belt in jiu jitsu and a good grappler could score a takedown and pummel me right through my sprawl/guard game.

i fail to see how any boxer that does not either have a huge mass or natural athleticism advantage could even stop a takedown from a good high school wrestler, let alone a world class grappler.

david haye thinks lightweights in the UFC could beat the majority of heavyweight boxers in a real fight(which i disagree with). and he certainly thinks the heavyweights could as well. as do oneil bell, floyd mayweather sr, thomas hearns, roy jones jr, george foreman, and mike tyson. you know what they all have in common?

experience fighting in the street and in other martial art disciplines.

this is not to count out any world class boxer from beating up any mixed martial artist (although in a "fair" fight it would be highly unlikely)

The point isn't that a boxer could stop a trained wrestler or UFC guy. It's self evident that 8/10 they can't. It's that he doesn't have to because in the real world the amount of people who are trained grapplers is 1/1000.

And a few things about the boxing scuffles you gave. Firstly Rahman-lewis & Ali-Frazier weren't proper fights where the two guys were trying to hurt each other. Secondly Tyson-Lewis was more of a rugby scrum involving about 15 people. And thirdly even if they were proper fights matching one world class boxer against another is almost as contrived a situation for judging the value of boxing on the streets as matching them against any other skilled fighter.

Your average self defense situation is just against a thug, not a trained fighter. But the point is that thug might have a knife in his pocket and he'll probably have friends with him who are itching to get involved if they have the opportunity. Hence the advantage of staying on your feet, controlling range, being able to deal with third parties etc. Grappling's a very useful skill but the majority of street situations are better suited to a boxers skill set than a BJJ guy, IMO. That was the only point. If something was gonna kick off outside a nightclub I'd rather have a ranked amateur boxer watching my back than a BJJ blue belt. Just my personal opinion. Although of course if the boxer was ALSO a blue belt in BJJ all the better.