How great are the new Fab Four?

**ElTerriblee** · 05-03-2009, 02:52 PM

After last night there is no doubt Manny Pacquiao is one of the greatest fighters of all-time, but how good are MAB, JMM and Morales in retrospective? With the exception of Barrera these are the fighters, who could hold their own against Manny? Now we have seen Manny against two opponents that defined Mayweather´s career and he crushed them. Obviously first and foremost it is a sign how great Manny is, but did we also severly underestimate the required boxing skills of the little guys to negate some of the awesome skills of Manny? In other words are the subtle things Morales, Marquez and Barrera do in a boxing ring being ignored, because they entertain fans. Are Hopkins or Mayweather really better fighters from an historically perspective, or because of their match-making (in the case of Floyd) and negative style?

**Free Ike** · 05-03-2009, 05:19 PM

I think obviously Morales, JMM and Pac are ATG'S.

Barrera is not. Barrera was like Ken Norton was to ALi to Morales. Morales was the better fighter, had the better career and could not beat Barrera. Other than that, Barrera's resume is pretty built up. I never thought Hamed was good and any of the aforementioned would have Kayoed Hamed.

I am not saying Barrera is a bum, but I think he is vastly lower than the other three and doesn't deserve to be included with him. HBO invented a change of style, but in reality he is the same guy I used to see at the Forum fights in LA, he just got boring.

Barrera beat some ok fighters like Peden, Poop Juarez but most of his fights were against smaller guys like a shot Johnny Tapia. His resume is littered with ok fighters, but in his biggest fights, outside of the Morales exception he got dominated.

Pacman and JMM showed how lower in terms of skill Barrera was.

**steve_dave** · 05-03-2009, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Free Ike

I think obviously Morales, JMM and Pac are ATG'S.

Barrera is not. Barrera was like Ken Norton was to ALi to Morales. Morales was the better fighter, had the better career and could not beat Barrera. Other than that, Barrera's resume is pretty built up. I never thought Hamed was good and any of the aforementioned would have Kayoed Hamed.

I am not saying Barrera is a bum, but I think he is vastly lower than the other three and doesn't deserve to be included with him. HBO invented a change of style, but in reality he is the same guy I used to see at the Forum fights in LA, he just got boring.

Barrera beat some ok fighters like Peden, Poop Juarez but most of his fights were against smaller guys like a shot Johnny Tapia. His resume is littered with ok fighters, but in his biggest fights, outside of the Morales exception he got dominated.

Pacman and JMM showed how lower in terms of skill Barrera was.

In his biggest fights? MAB/Hamed was HUGE.

**ElTerriblee** · 05-03-2009, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Free Ike

I think obviously Morales, JMM and Pac are ATG'S.

Barrera is not.

Well I disagree on Barrera, but what I´m saying is that a lot of hardcore fans have an appreciation for the wars of the fab four, which seems to overshadow the skill level involved. At the same time hardcore fans will say, that if you want to see true greatness, the sweet science of hit and not get hit, you have to watch Hopkins or Mayweather. So are these guys just as good as a Mayweather or Hopkins?

**Free Ike** · 05-03-2009, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by steve_dave

In his biggest fights? MAB/Hamed was HUGE.

It was media big, but Hamed was not a good fighter. I wasn't on the internet then, but I thought Barrera would handle him easily. Actually, I thought Mab would kayo him. I should have written in his fights with other elite fighters, he got dominated outside of Morales. I can't see how that is disputable.

One could argue that Hamed was elite, but imo not well. He wasn't anything more than a crude puncher and JMM OR Morales would have stopped him inside the distance.

**Alabama_Man** · 05-03-2009, 06:38 PM

I actually thought Hamed had world class abilities, but his career above 122 was very lackluster to say the least.

**Free Ike** · 05-03-2009, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Alabama_Man

I actually thought Hamed had world class abilities, but his career above 122 was very lackluster to say the least.

An arrogant and crude slugger with a below average chin. Nothing more and nothing less. A decent fighter and the second best victory of Barrera's career.

It's funny that people just gloss over the fact that MAB was knocked the fuck out(cough sorry a dq) and then outboxed by Junior Jones who was not an elite fighter.

I don't want to turn this thread into Barrera sucks, because he doesn't. He just isn't anywhere near as good as Morales or JMM. In fact, the ONLY reason he is brought up along side with those actually great fighters is he owned Morales. Against everyone else elite, he got owned.

**Alabama_Man** · 05-03-2009, 06:43 PM

I remember when Hamed got into an all-out slugging war with an old Kevin Kelley and almost lost.

**Free Ike** · 05-03-2009, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Alabama_Man

I remember when Hamed got into an all-out slugging war with an old Kevin Kelley and almost lost.

Thank you. People forget this. In that spirit, it should be noted Hamed agrees with me. He wouldn't touch Marquez with a 50 meter pole or Morales. Barrera he thought he could take. He was wrong.

Not for nothing, Barrera clearly beat Hamed, but it was a 3 or 4 point win. People hated Hamed and rightly so. Still, he was not dominated by Barrera and it was actually a very boring fight.

**Alabama_Man** · 05-03-2009, 06:56 PM

Now that I think about it, I'd rank Terdsak Jandaeng above Hamed in terms of accomplishment at 126 pounds.

**Free Ike** · 05-03-2009, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Alabama_Man

Now that I think about it, I'd rank Terdsak Jandaeng above Hamed in terms of accomplishment at 126 pounds.

Terdsak is nothing to scoff at.

**royyjonesjrp4pno1** · 05-04-2009, 03:27 PM

The fights between Pac, JMM, EM and MAB are far superior to the fights between Hearns, Hagler, SRL and Duran.

**Alabama_Man** · 05-04-2009, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by royyjonesjrp4pno1

The fights between Pac, JMM, EM and MAB are far superior to the fights between Hearns, Hagler, SRL and Duran.

+1,000,000,000

Those 4 really wanted to f*ck each other up.

**Haymaker** · 05-04-2009, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Free Ike

I think obviously Morales, JMM and Pac are ATG'S.

Barrera is not. Barrera was like Ken Norton was to ALi to Morales. Morales was the better fighter, had the better career and could not beat Barrera. Other than that, Barrera's resume is pretty built up. I never thought Hamed was good and any of the aforementioned would have Kayoed Hamed.

I am not saying Barrera is a bum, but I think he is vastly lower than the other three and doesn't deserve to be included with him. HBO invented a change of style, but in reality he is the same guy I used to see at the Forum fights in LA, he just got boring.

Barrera beat some ok fighters like Peden, Poop Juarez but most of his fights were against smaller guys like a shot Johnny Tapia. His resume is littered with ok fighters, but in his biggest fights, outside of the Morales exception he got dominated.

Pacman and JMM showed how lower in terms of skill Barrera was.

I agree with this. Morales took a leap over Barrera since their second fight. Beating Pacquiao and other solid fighters before his demise. Barrera had a joke of a resume after morales and pacquiao buried him deeper. To me they stand in this order:

1 - Pacquiao
2 - Marquez
3 - Morales
4 - Barrera

and you can switch between morales and marquez, because Marquez had to wait long before fighting the big names.