So Here it Is, a Way to LABEL, DEFINE, PIGEONHOLE, CLASSIFY Any Fighter from History, Based on the Following Adjectives: Generational, All-Timer, Great, Very Good, Good, Pretty Good, Average, Below Average...List a Fighter that Fits YOUR Criteria for Each Category & If Possible, List DIFFERENT Fighters from the Previous Poster... Feel Free to CREATE Levels ABOVE or BELOW Those of REED's...He'll Even Post his OWN Examples 1st, Since he AIN'T Skurrrrred... Generational - Ali, Roy Jones All-Timer - Hagler, Hopkins Great - Sugar Shane, Tito Trinidad Very Good - Prince Naseem, Kostya Tsyzu Good - Zab Pretty Good - Arturo Gatti, Matthew Saad Muhammad Average - Emmanuel Augustus Below Average - Ray Olivera REED:hammert:
I thought about these kinds of classifications this week and I like your adjectives as well as your examples. However, I'm not sure if I understand your definition of generational as opposed to all-timer, especially if Jones and Hopkins are in different classes, since Hopkins achieved more in his career (and who ranks higher is a matter of taste and very close). Jones at his best was the most talented fighter ever, so if you rank them based on their absolute peaks, then I agree, If you consider their historical importance or success, then Jones falls short, as does Hopkins. In my rankings, the top class (generational or whatever) can include about ten fighters of the history of the whole sport. They are the greatest of fighters, who usually have also had some historical impact on the sport - Ali, Robinson, Pep. There can be 0 to about 6 all-timers in a weight division - in heavyweights for example Foreman doesn't quite make it. You are great if you can be considered to the top-10 or so of your division - obviously not at cruiserweight where only Holyfield ranks, but at lightweight top 15 can be enough so guys like Beau Jack and Roberto Duran are in. Very good is a fighter who has been a champion and at some point among the best champions of the sport, or, if for some time you have looked fantastic but burned out quickly or you have made a particularly long, successful career. Tszyu is an excellent example of the first, Curry could be the next and Patterson the last. Good is the same but not quite that dominant of a champion or little less time at the top. After this the definitions get very tricky, for example is a guy who has been a top-10 contender at some stage of his career an average fighter, above it (considering how many fighters never get there) or below average (since guys like Cliff Etienne and Chris Arreola are on this level)
Perhaps I didn't choose the best of examples but my point was that there are plenty of fighters whose best division was the lightweight who can inarguably be called great
Saad for about 4 years was one of the most difficult men to defeat in the world... you just couldn't get rid of him... he was weight-drained and falling off the cliff by the time Qawi got to him... he's easily a top 20 light heavyweight
Despite ACCOMPLISHING More than Roy Jones has, REED Doubts Many, if Any Would Say Hopkins was BETTER than Roy Jones...You said Yourself, "Jones at his best was the most talented fighter ever"...Even Those that DISagree w/Your Sentiment HAVE to Rate Jones as ONE OF the Most Talented Fighters they've EVER Seen (@ the Very LEAST), Which to REED is a 1nce in a GENERATION Trait... The GENERATIONAL Fighters are the RAREST of the RARE...Truly SPECIAL Fighters...You're Right, there's NOT Many of Them...As GREAT as Bernard Was, he Falls Short of SPECIAL, in REED's Opinion... REED:mj:
At MOST, REED Would Rate Saad in the "GOOD" Category... Even @ his BEST, Saad was LIFE & DEATH w/EVERYBODY...That's Not the Mark of a VERY Good Fighter, in REED's Opinion...To REED, Saad & Gatti are ANALOGOUS, w/Saad Rating NO MORE than 1 Level Above, if That... REED:mj:
saad muhammad beat much better opposition than gatti did. gatti's best wins were: dorin, patterson, and ruelas. not much of a comparison there between them guys and marvin johnson, yaqui lopez, and conteh among others.
There ISN'T???... EVERY Name You Posted is BEST Known for who they LOST To, MORESO than Anything they Ever Actually ACCOMPLISHED...Again, REED has No Problem Rating Saad a LEVEL Higher, but let's NOT Pretend he was OUT of Gatti's League or Anything... REEDhno:
Saad was way out of Gatti's league Johnson, Lopez and Conteh were miles beyond Dorin, Patterson and Ruelas
Again, Saad Went LIFE & DEATH w/EVERYBODY he Fought...MORE Times than Not, he Needed Miraculous, Come from Behind, HEROIC Efforts to Win, Based on Being a VERY Limited Fighter... Ya'll are Getting Tooooooooooooo Caught Up in a DIRECT Comparison to Gatti, when the ISSUE Is, WHERE would YOU Rate Saad, Based on the Catergories REED's Listed???...@ BEST, REED Sees Saad as a "GOOD" Fighter..."VERY GOOD" Fighters Simply DON'T Go Life & Death w/as Many Guys as Saad Did... REED:mj:
:bears: he was way better than pretty good. From REED's list, I woudl also knock Trinidad down one notch.
I'd like to know the difference, too generational means over many generations or something and all-time is you know ALL-time, like you know of all times, EVER!!!! ::
Generational - Joe Louis All Timer - Larry Holmes Great - Aaron Pryor Very Good - Jeff Chandler Good - Carl Froch Pretty Good - Boom Boom Mancini Average - Mickey Ward Below Average - Leon Spinks REED:shadow:
Nah, there's MORE "All Timers" than "Generationals"..."Generational" is THE Most Exclusive Category of Fighters... REED:mj:
As in a "1nce in a Generation" Level Fighter...ANY "Generational" is CLEARLY an All-Timer Already... REED:mj:
Instead of Sitting Back like Bitches, NITPICKING REED's Lists & Criteria, Why Not Post Some of YOUR OWN, to Show REED how it's REALLY Done???... REED:dunno:
Generational - Tyson, and Jones All time great - Hagler, and M.Spinks Great - Benitez Very good - Michael Nunn Good - Jermain Taylor Pretty good - Judah Average - Gatti Below average - Katsidis Feel free to nitpick mine, Brotha REED. LOL.
Yeah, you might be right. Taylor was pretty mediocre. I still think that he only deserved a draw against Spinks. And Winky beat him pretty clearly, and got a BS draw.
Where does the Marquez, Barrera, Morales Trifecta Rank???...Together???...1 Higher/Lower than the Others???.... Is Tommy Hearns an "All Timer" or Merely "Great"???...Is Ray Leonard "Generational" or Merely an "All Timer"???....Sweet Pea Whittaker???... REED:dunno:
Out of the "Fab 4", I consider Leonard, and Duran to be generational. Hagler, and Hearns, I consider all time greats. Marquez ranks higher than MAB, and Morales, and I'd rank Morales above MAB. Whitaker is on the borderline of all time great, and generational. But fuck it! I'd say he's generational.