Why can't a fighter "let his hands go"?

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by Ugotabe Kidding, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    How often have we heard fans screaming, broadcasters telling us, even sometimes the coaches demanding "just let your hands go". A fighter could score a KO or at least have a chance to do so or win rounds in a close fight, if he just lets his hands go more.

    Why is it so difficult sometimes? No fighter, apart from Zab Judah, can be stupid enough not to realize that he needs to throw something to be effective. So why are they not doing it?

    There are cases when a fighter is too tired or too scared to throw anything and thus let's the other guy pick him apart, but are there any other reasons? Why can't fighters "just let their hands go"?
     
  2. whiskey

    whiskey Czarcasm

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    Lots of reasons that apply differently to each fight and fighter.

    In terms of the older fighters i think a lot has to do with reflexes and speed. Once they reach a certain stage in their career they just aren't quick enough on the gun in order to take advantage of the openings they see. At the same time they are so accustomed to and training to do exactly that for years, it's near impossible for them to simply "let their hands go" as it's not natural.
     
  3. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    Sometimes I think it's some kind of mental block... Juan LaPorte is the quintessential example... I never saw anyone fail to back up when LaPorte let his hands go, no matter how tough... Pedroza, Gomez, Sanchez, McGuigan, each one backed off when LaPorte threw in combination... The only guy that stayed put was Chavez and a result, it was probably LaPorte's "best" loss ... Azumah Nelson ran from him... The problem was that once LaPorte missed a bit, he'd stop throwing, put on the earmuffs, back up to the ropes and let the fight slip away while he tried to land one-shot knockout punches, which was never going to work against such a class of fighters... His corner would be pleading with him to let his hands go but he just wouldn't do it... I think the shocking KO of the tough as nails Rocky Lockridge was one of the worst things that ever happened to him because it reinforced this idea that he could wait and wait and then land a bomb off of the ropes and win the fight with one punch
     
  4. Slice N Dice

    Slice N Dice Big stiff idiot

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    Sometimes it's hard to let things go when they mean so much to you
     
  5. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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  6. whiskey

    whiskey Czarcasm

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    I have to wonder if guys like Tua and Rocky Juarez suffered from this "syndrome". (not that they were on Laporte's level)

    Another thing I noticed with those two is the propensity to actually let their hands fly a bit at the end of rounds in which they did nothing previous. They weren't cagey enough to try pulling a Sugar Ray vs Hagler and steal them, so I have to think fitness played a part in it. The other guy knows he won the round so they just (usually) want to close it out and head to the corner. The guy who can't/won't let his hands go takes a deep breath and lunges forward hoping to land something big.
     
  7. BOSS

    BOSS TBD

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    Quite simply avoidance of pain via getting hit in the face. Notice no one has a problem letting their hands go against a heavy bag.
     
  8. whiskey

    whiskey Czarcasm

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    This is a pretty good summation. Just because a guy can take a good shot without being visibly shaken doesn't mean he'll walk through fire to land his own.
     
  9. BOSS

    BOSS TBD

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    As everyone knows counters aka punches u don't see coming hurt a lot more and are a lot likely to take u out thus it's one thing for say Tua to take Lewis' regular onslaught which he can brace for it's another to take the chance by opening up and getting blasted to lala land.
     
  10. broadwayjoe

    broadwayjoe Undisputed Champion

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    This. LaPorte was the first fighter I thought of when I saw this topic. And yes to the notion that the easy KO of Lockridge had a negative impact on LaPorte's career.
     
  11. Panchyprsss

    Panchyprsss Clogg's LORD PROTECTOR

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    Awesome analysis on Laporte. :bears:
     
  12. LOK

    LOK I'll eat your asshole alive

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    This makes me think of the excellent corner work of Jack Mosely.. my favorite trainer..

    he would give Shane wisdom like "Shane.. you gotta throw punches.. let them go Shane"

    and the classic interviews (EVERY PRE FIGHT).. "When they get in there with Shane.. they will be surprised at how strong he is"

    then of course after yelling and encouraging Shane to let his hands go in the ring.. if he lost

    "shane's back tightened up"
     
  13. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    I agree
     
  14. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    I think that is true a lot of times

    I don't think that applies with regard to LaPorte, though... The guy walked through vicious shots on numerous occasions, his chin was Iron.
     
  15. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    :mj:
     
  16. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Great responses all around.

    I agree that it is mostly some kind of a mental block. It can depend on fear (of getting hit) or something else, as in LaPorte's or David Tua's case. It can sometimes also be that the opponent moves well that he prevents the fighter from settling and as we have seen, even some great fighters (such as Tito) may nearly stop punching altogether.

    Let's take it one step further: is there anything the coach could do, either during the fight or in the gym, that would help the fighter in this sense? Can you give any advice how a fighter would e able to let his hands go more, since merely telling him to do so clearly isn't working out. Or could the fighter somehow change his approach so that the mental block disappears?

    Did LaPorte ever for example try to jab and move (which wasn't his style at all) and thus, by giving his opponent room to attack, could have gotten his own punches going again? Is one of the problems that a fighter tries too much to do something that is not working and this leads to the mental block?
     
  17. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    Some guys really need to plant their feet for whatever reason. Tua, lol. Unless you were standing still Tua wouldn't even throw at you.
     
  18. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    LaPorte would jab a little bit but it was like if the other guy was moving, he'd say to himself "well, I can't hit him when he's moving like that, so maybe I should try and lay here on the ropes instead... THEN when he comes at me, I'll lay him out with one shot!" ... Problem was he was trying that against guys who were too good and too smart to fall into that kind of trap
     
  19. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    Tua and LaPorte are no exception. Bottom line is fighters' are most vulnerable during or immediately following the process of throwing punches. If they prefer not to be vulnerable, then not throwing punches is a viable strategy. Not to win, of course, but to remain invulnerable.

    As boss said, it's one thing to take a shot you see coming and that you've braced for. It's a whole other kind of shock to the system to be hit with one you've not seen coming.

    Often times, in instances when fighters stop moving their hands, you can trace it back to a single shot they took in the process of throwing. They've decided, consciously or not, they're not going to let that happen again. They're going to stop letting their hands go.

    In my opinion, the opponent deserves credit when this occurs. He's done his job as a counter puncher when his opponent suddenly becomes gun shy.
     
  20. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    I don't see how that applies to LaPorte... Half the reason his chin was renowned was because of how easily he absorbed punches that caught him completely blind... I don't think the guy feared getting hit at all... I think he feared looking bad and missing his punches
     
  21. BOSS

    BOSS TBD

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    Good post LL . For example take a prime Roy. Not the hardest puncher but blindingly fast counter punches. Why did so many opponents go into a shell against him? Because if u missed he made u pay with pain. Just too fast. A losing battle. Very quickly they realized risk/pain reward ratio wasn't in their favor thus went into basic human mode of survival aka pain avoidance.
     
  22. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    I think you're underrating his power. Sure most of it was speed, but he could bang too, his power was legit.
     
  23. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    LaPorte might be one of few exceptions, but I think BOSS's post hit the nail on the head tbh. It's really quite simple, they don't let their hands go because they don't want to get hit in the face.

    Unless you have a screw loose like Mayorga, no one actually likes or wants to get hit in the face, even if they have a very good chin, num sen?

    Some fighters obviously deal with it much better than others. Some fighters let that natural survival instinct take over in a fight, and get the better of them, without actually wanting to. Others simply bitch up on purpose, and turtle, or run etc.
     
  24. BOSS

    BOSS TBD

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    Probably 7/10 but when it was an out of nowhere counter felt like a 9/10
     
  25. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    See I think Mayorga's chin is the biggest myth there is... Plenty of pro fighters can stand there with their hands down, clench their jaw, clench their neck muscles and give an opponent a free shot... it's a psych-out tactic, a parlor trick... Mayorga had a good chin, but not a great one, IMO ... I'm way more impressed by guys like Laporte who eat flush shots in mid haymaker and never budge an inch or guys like Tex Cobb who just don't have good enough reflexes to avoid punches consistently and wind up eating a million of them even in fights they win
     
  26. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    yeah, especially 160-168, he was a real banger
     
  27. BOSS

    BOSS TBD

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    Yup
     
  28. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    :mj:
     
  29. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Agreed. At 175 he was more speed, but at 160 and 168 he was a proper puncher.

    Having said that, his power sometimes looked legit at 175, when he went for it. Look at the Griffin and Hill fights.
     
  30. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    I think it's a ridiculous assumption to say that Laporte wasn't affected (and made reluctant) by the punches he received.
     

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