Premier Boxing Champions vs Sanctioning bodies

Prediction: The short-sighted position of PBC to ignore the sanctioning bodies, but still call their fighters generically 'world champions' is going to result in boxers being required to have the belt they are fighting for announced or they will be stripped or otherwise unsanctioned.

This will end up with PBC having a bunch of good fighters with no belts.

This will end up hurting PBC to the point they cave in quickly.

 

what will hurt PBC more is when they fail to put on any compelling matches and the sponsor money runs dry with nothing to show for it. they are not building a brand here because the ratings are not improving and the product is inferior.

 

Are the ratings good enough that they can make money with the status quo?

I don't think of their product as inferior. I like their cards so far. I just don't see how they can be sustainable without the support or indifference of sanctioning bodies. Instead, they chosen to be competitive/hostile to them. Short-sighted and stupid, imo, for a promoter doing a lot of interesting things.

 

they have already lost a shit load of money. so id say the ratings are not good enough.

 

Whether PBC Fails or Flourishes, Sanctioning Bodies will Be THE LEAST of the Reasons Why...

More and MORE Fighters have Become Put Off by Sanctioning Bodies, Over the Years, so it's Only NATURAL a Guy Like Haymon Would Be as Well...Like it or Not, Being a "World Champion" ISN'T What it Used to Be, mikE...Sanctioning Bodies have THEMSELVES to Blame for Diluting their Own Product AND Legitimacy...




REED:hammert:

 

Then why does PBC announce their guys as world champions? I'll answer--because it matters.

One of the primary complaints against sanctioning bodies is that it makes it confusing for fans as to who is the real champ.
Rather than put a little of the burden on fans to lighten their ignorance, what PBC is doing is intentionally and nefariously creating ignorance by taking advantage of what being a world champion means without crediting the entities that make that title possible and, in theory, legitimate.

It's even worse than what the WBA does and that's saying something.

What else is PBC doing wrong?

 

Those Being Announced as "World Champions" HAD Belts Prior to PBC, So WHAT is your Beef Exactly???

Even with Millions Watching him the Last 10+ Years, NOBODY has Given a Fuck about what Belt Floyd's Fought For...NOBODY Cared when he Fought DeLa, Sugar Shane, Cotto, Canelo, Pac, and Others...

Why, Because it DOESNT Matter...




REED

 

Reed, I know this is an exercise is futility, but do you think PBC should be indicating which organization their fighters are champions of?

Second question, do you really think that Floyd Mayweather's situation is comparable to 95% of the current titlists' situations with regard to public perception?

 

Even five years ago I would have said no, but now, I think it is comparable. Five ears ago, the biggest stars of the game didn't need titles but 95 % of the titlists needed them to stay in the mix. Now, they matter so little that very few actually follow them.

Nobody watches Ruslan Chagaev even though he has a 'major' title belt at heavyweight, whereas fans of cruiserweight will certainly be interested in Marco Huck's US debut whether he has some belt or not (I seriously don't know if he does). I can't remember which title GGG has for example, nor do I know if Keith Thurman has a title belt (I know that he is not the champion)

This is where it has come to

 

Surprisingly I over heard quite a few casual fans surprised at the recent stripping of one of pbf's titles...as if that were actual news. Point is, the casual fan still thinks titles matter.

 

When they here these news they think "uh oh, what did he do so that they stripped his title". When they notice that nothing actually changed, they will forget it immediately as they should

 

1. NO, You're Either a "World Champion" or You're NOT...Hardcore NOR Casual Fans Care Whether the WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO or WHO Sanctions the Bout...

2. YES, it's Comparable...Back in '95, Prince Naseem Won the WBO Title...In '97 he Took Tom Johnson's IBF Title and was STRIPPED of it Almost Immediately...In '98, Reigning WBA Champion, Wilfredo Vasquez, GAVE UP his Belt So he Could Pursue a Money Fight w/Hamed...In '99, Hamed Took Cesar Soto's WBC Title and was Again IMMEDIATELY Stripped...

By the Time Hamed Got Around to Fighting Marco Antonio Barrera in 2001, he DIDN'T Even Have the WBO Title Anymore, so they Fought for the Vacant IBO Title...Point is, NOBODY Cared about WHAT Title they were Fighting for, it was GIVEN Naseem Hamed was THE Best Featherweight in the World, w/or w/Out a Sanctioning Bodies Backing...

Hamed is a SHINING Example of How MEANINGLESS Sanctioning Bodies Are...They were MORE Concerned w/their OWN Agendas, Instead of Allowing THE Best Guy (Who Won WBO, WBC, IBF and BEAT the WBA Champ Weeks After he was Stripped) to Represent Them...




REED:hammert:

 

THIS...

Yes, GGG and Thurman have Belts, but NOBODY Gives a Fuck WHAT Belt it Is...Ditto for Lomachenko...REED THINKS Rigondeaux and Donaire Fought for SOME Sanctioning Bodies Title, but he Isn't 100% Certain...Does Terrance Crawford Currently have a Title???...Does Anyone Care???...

When Floyd Fought JM Marquez and Sugar Shane, NO Titles were @ Stake...

A PLETHORA of Sanctioning Bodies has OVER SATURATED the Sport to the Point where Belts are just about Meaningless...




REED:hammert:

 

Exactly...

To Casual Fans, there's 1 "World Champion" Per Weight Class, So Upon Hearing Floyd was Stripped, it DIDN'T Occur to them that he May or May Not have Possessed a Belt from 1-2 Other Sanctioning Bodies...

To Be Clear, EVERYBODY Wants to Know Who "The CHAMP" Is, in EVERY Weight Class...But When there's 3-4 "Champs" PER Weight Class, it Leads to the Level of Indifference Seen Today...




REED:hammert:

 

Whilst you're 100% right about the meaningless nature of belt holders and sanctioning bodies, it's FUCKING ANNOYING explaining to casual boxing fans in Britain that Carl Froch is not 'the man' in the super middleweight division, Andre Ward is...

"Yeah but who has the belts?"

FUCK OFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!

 

Yup

 

You Should Respond, "None of Those Belts Makes Froch THE Best Super middleweight in the World. His Belts Mean about as Much as the Leather Strap Keeping your Pants Around Your Waist."




REED

 

1) Not if you get stripped which is what should happen.

2) You say "Yes, Floyd's situation is same as 95% of other titlists. Then your example is one of the most popular fighters of almost 20 years ago.

I knew I was wasting my time.

 

Apparently, the ONLY "Waste of Time" was on REED's Behalf, for DARING to Debate your Trolling, Contrarian Bullshit Ass RESPECTFULLY, Asshole...You Bitch and Moan about Posters NEGLECTING to Consider and RESPOND to your Perpetually IDIOTIC Points, yet when REED Does it, Sans Name Calling (Your BIGGEST Point of Contention), ALL You Can Muster is "I Knew I was Wasting my Time"???....

Fuck You, Dude...In Hindsight, REED Afforded your Sorry Ass a Courtesy You DIDN'T Deserve & Henceforth, Will Treat your Asinine Sanctioning Body Thoughts and Opinions w/the Level of GRADE SCHOOL Logic it Warrants...

Sanctioning Bodies Aren't and NEVER Have Been Consistent about WHEN they Strip their Champions...Again Hamed WON the IBF and WBC Titles, yet was STRIPPED of Both Because he Wouldn't Vacate the WBO Title (Which he Won 1st)...And Wilfredo Vasquez, the REIGNING WBA Champion, was STRIPPED of his Laurels for What; Wanting to Face THE Best and Most Lucrative Featherweight of his Era...

Wanna Know Why Manny Pacquiao NEVER Held a Featherweight Title, Technically???...Because Marco Antonio Barrera, Upon Beating Hamed, DIDN'T Waste his Time w/Sanctioning Bodies....Nonetheless, he was UNIVERSALLY Recognized as THE Best Featherweight in the World...And 1nce Pacquiao Wiped his Ass w/Barrera, that Designation Became His...The Sanctioning Bodies DIDN'T Matter...

When the WBC Tried to FORCE a Mandatory Defense Larry Holmes Didn't Want (Greg Page, if REED's Not Mistaken), the IBF GLADLY Stepped Right Up and Named Holmes as their INAGURAL Heavyweight Champion...

These are All Examples of Sanctioning Bodies MAKING SHIT UP AS THEY GO ALONG, Yet You Foolishly Advocate Them...Worse, these are Examples REED is Pulling Out of his Ass, w/Barely ANY Thought Required, & There's MANY More, from the Last 20-30 Years...





REED:hammert:

 

Reed, you are fighting with a straw man, you dumbass. I never said sanctioning bodies were perfect. You are bitching about shit that happened in the 90's.

Perhaps you didn't understand the original point. Reread it and try again.

 

I don't see your problem with REED's original answer and thus I don't understand why you answered it rudely.

The differences here are: What does a 'world champion' mean. Obviously, Reed meant it as in 'generally recognized'. If you think of the champion this way then it doesn't matter if he is stripped or naked. Sometimes it is unclear (in the cruiserweight it could be Huck or Hernandez, in middleweight Cotto or GGG, for different reasons).

And even though a fighter can be wrongly proclaimed as world champion by PBC, certainly the answer is not to include the sanctioning bodies in it, for the reasons given in this thread

For the second point, certainly you can see that Reed gave another example of a case where everybody agreed on who was the champion. That is, everybody but the sanctioning bodies. So when a fighter deserves to be called a 'world champ', everybody will know it, too.

It matters not that if the situation is different for 95% of the titlists - 95 % of them don't DESERVE to be called champions

 

Other than an elite few, who got there by being titlists, every boxer needs a title and always has.

"fans of cruiserweight" Haha, come on. That's like saying "fans of going to the dentist." Whatever viewership of Huck is, you have to credit him being a titlist for generating the bulk of it.

Ruslan Chagaev doesn't have a major belt. He's an interim titlist. Something that has never been worth a whole lot.

Thurman was introduced as a world champion in his last fight without specification. PBC used that to boost his credentials without elaboration. That's bullshit and will backfire on PBC, as is the point of my original post.

 

It doesn't matter what the differences are. PBC introduces all fighters with titles as world champions. You don't educate fans through intentional ignorance. PBC is getting the advantages of titlists without providing credit to the organizations that make the claim credible. Reed doesn't get it. You aren't getting it, but it's not that hard to understand.

If you are the sanctioning body, what are you going to do in response to PBC? Why?

 

Your "Point" was DEVOID of Merit when REED Initially REEDing it, So WHY Would he Waste Seconds of his Life REEDing it Again???...It's NOT as if You Brought Up Some Avant Garde, Out of the Box Way of Thinking...




REED:baa:

 

Therein Lies ANOTHER Problem w/Sanctioning Bodies...

By YOUR OWN Admission, an Interim Title Means DICK...So WHY have them in the 1st Place???...Ditto for "Super" Champions, "Interim" Champions, etc...WHY Have them???...

Because it's a BLATANT Way for Sanctioning Bodies to Get Into the POCKETS of Fighters, via Sanctioning Fees...No MORE, No LESS...





REED:boohoo:

 

ugotabe claimed Chagaev had a major belt. He doesn't. So, how does that affect the discussion? It doesn't. It's a useless red herring, something you should appreciate.

Interim belts have a purpose and use, but they aren't going to be a factor for viewership unless people are misled. The irony is that the WBA intends to mislead and ugotabe was misled; just as PBC intends to mislead, and viewers will be misled.

 

No, YOU Don't Get it mikE...

The WBC's, WBA's, WBO's, IBF's, WBZ's, WTF's and W.H.O.'s have CONVOLUTED the Picture to the Point Even HARDCORE Fans Barely Know WHO Has What Belt Anymore...Did You MISS that Earlier Portion of this Thread???...Other than YOU and Sanctioning Body Employees, NOBODY Cares WHO has What Belt...

Yes, BEING a "World Champion" Still Carries Weight, but the Sanctioning Body in Question is of NOfuckingRELEVANCE Anymore...Either You ARE a "World Champion" or You AREN'T...PBC ISN'T Obligated to ANNOUNCE the Name of the Sanctioning Body Supplying the Belt...Do You Also have a Problem w/RING Magazine MINIMIZING the Impact of Sanctioning Bodies within its Pages or "ESPN's Friday Night Fights" for Doing Likewise on their Airwaves???...Hell, HBO & Showtime BARELY, if Ever, Make Mention of the Sanctioning Body Involved in a Particular Title Fight, Anymore...

Yet YOU Take Issue w/Haymon and PBC Following Suit???...

"Educate Fans"???...You've Amassed an IMPRESSIVE Assortment of BONEHEADED Quotes and Boxing Thoughts, But The Idea of Sanctioning Bodies EVER Being the Least Bit Interested in "Educating Fans" is Near the Top...Ditto for this Pie in the Sky Notion of PBC or Other Entities Somehow Being RESPONSIBLE for "Educating Fans"....

Sanctioning Bodies have INTENTIONALLY Clouded the Picture for Boxing Fans for DECADES...FACT!!!...Ray Charles and Steven Wonder Can Even See it, yet YOU Can't...




REED:baa:

 

What Purpose Do "Interim", "Super" and "Silver" Titles Serve, OTHER than to Afford Sanctioning Bodies the Luxury of Assessing FEES to Fighters???...




REED:hammert:

 

Considering that the situation is the same as it's been since Hamed's days, what has changed, Reed?

The main things to me are 1. The WBO is at least as good as the other 3 in everyone's eyes; and 2. The WBA is fucktarded with their super, regular, interim, bullshit.

Nothing else has really changed. Unifications occur at least as much. The heavyweight situation has been clear for a decade.

 

What's Changed is Sanctioning Body INDIFFERENCE is @ an All Time HIGH...Justifiably So....

& Please Don't Heap ALL the Blame on the WBA...Your Precious WBO were the 1st to Anoint a "Super" Champion, if REED's Not Mistaken...They Did this After Prince Naseem's 10th or 15th Consecutive Title Defense...The WBC Has that "Diamond" Champion Bullshit as Well...

"Credible Sanctioning Body" is an OXYMORON...




REED:hammert: