Best offensive fighters of all time

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by Xplosive, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    Best offensive fighters of all time. The obvious ones who come to mind:

    Robinson
    Louis
    Duran
    Tyson
    Foreman
    Arguello
    Ezzard Charles
    Hearns
    Napoles
    Chavez
    Pryor
    Pac
    Trinidad
    Chocolatito

    Who else?

    I don't think it's wrong at all to place Chocolatito on this list. He's gonna eventually go down as one of the better offensive fighters ever.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
  2. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    All those White Defensive Genius, eh :lol:
     
  3. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    Before I contribute a list I must get the following question answered:

    How are we defining offensive?

    I ask the question because I'm somewhat surprised to see Foreman on the list.
     
  4. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    If Foreman is on the list then you should put Marciano, Benn, Hamed, Jackson as well. So I need a definition.
     
  5. puerto rock

    puerto rock WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Norris
    Corrales
    Mayweather (From 130-140 especially)
    Jackson
    Jones
    Curry
    Rosario
     
  6. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    Agreed. There were many fights in Foremans early years, particularly the Jimmy Young fight and both fights with Gregorio Peralta which suggest his offense was not all that it could have been.

    That's 1970 to 1977, approximately, a fairly wide spread over his early career.

    Then there is the total offensive failure in Zaire in 1974.

    He lost to Tommy Morrison, probably lost to Axel Schulz and split-decisioned Lou Savarese and came close to flooring none of them :lol:

    Savarese got blown out by shot Mike, shitty Izon, decent Kirk Johnson, was dropped twice by inept Mike Grant. Tommy got blown out by Bentt and Mercer and Lewis.

    Then there is the Zaire-esque collapse vs Alex Steward where he failed to get rid of his man despite having him badly hurt and generated almost no offense as the fight wore on.

    Great, huge power, sure, but reliable consistent offense, with regards to Foreman, is limited to a brace of fights with Frazier {always easy to hit and hurt, and damaged goods as early as 1973, and totally shot by 1976} Norton and Lyle.
     
  7. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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  8. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    Great offensive fighters is taken to mean, prima facie, guys who got a lot of KO's or who had a lot of power.

    I say bullshit to that for a definition.

    Roy shouldn;t be on the list but Ray Robinson should.

    Hamed should not be on the list but Marciano should.

    Foreman should not be on the list but Frazier should.
     
  9. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    I agree Irish. I don't get X's list at all. It seems like he's using inconsistent criteria. It's almost as though he created this thread while being high or drunk.
     
  10. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    I think he could be a smug racist.Smells like a smug racist list :lol:

    Surely Frazier, shot to shit in 1975, and half-blinded by Ali in Manila, managing to still get at and hurt the Champ in The Thriller counts for a better, more sustained offense than the crud Foreman offered in Zaire, himself still a fresh undamaged fighter, barely 1 year before :dunno:
     
  11. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    A good offensive fighter:

    1. Goes on the offensive more often than not, preferably all the time.

    2. Tries to hurt his opponent and get them out of there as a preferred course of action.

    3. Throws with intent.

    4. Is able to attack and does attack and able to cause damage when they attack.

    Troy Dorsey liked to go on the attack but had no power. Wayne McCullough, ditto.

    Marciano came forward, had a clever attack, could get inside, had the power to end fights when he landed and could "throw the switch" when the situation demanded it.

    Examples: First and second Walcott fights, Second Charles fight where he had 3 mins to get it done.

    I would have Gatti down as a better offensive fighter than Hamed. The fact that he fought better guys than Hamed should not detract from his having a better offense.
     
  12. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    Anyway my definition of offensive prowess which I call "Punishment delivery system" is the ability to deliver punishment to an opponent and it involves a combination of speed, power, accuracy, two-fisted power and large repertoire of punches.

    Based on this criteria, which is the only way to look at it IMO, here's my list:

    Louis
    Tyson
    Robinson
    Trinidad
    Chavez
    Duran
    Pacquiao
    130-140lb Mayweather
    GGG
    Chocolatito
    Arguello
     
  13. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    I don't have the following fighters on the list because they usually hurt opponents with only one hand or even just one punch:

    hearns
    Hagler
    De la Hoya
    Frazier
    Ruddock

    I don't include the following because they missed as much as they connected:

    Foreman
    Benn
    Marciano

    I don't include the following because they relied on one bomb at a time and didn't really string accurate punches together in sequence

    Jackson
    McClellan
    Hamed
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
  14. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    Henry Armstrong should be in there. Guy threw too many punches not to be in there. Ditto Greb..............albeit to a lesser extent.

    Here's the thing......Greb put Tunney in hospital with a broken face, but Dempsey unloaded a salvo on Tunney and got dropped himself soon after.

    Yet Dempsey is remembered as an offensive machine and Greb is remembered as a middling-middleweight.
     
  15. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    Marciano belongs. I should have included him.

    Kov and GGG arguably belong one day.
     
  16. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    Marciano belongs because he fulfills the criteria, he went on the offense, sustained it, turned fights around with it and caused damage with it.
     
  17. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    Again...depends on what the criteria is. The criteria should be what he that they call the Sly One laid out.
     
  18. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    This is not a list of PUNCHERS, btw. Not every puncher in history is a great offensive fighter. Benn, Shavers, Tua, Danny Lopez, great punchers... but NOT great offensive fighters.

    Chavez, Duran.... not all time great punchers, but all time great offensive fighters.

    SOME are both though. Like Tyson, and Louis... great punchers AND great offensive fighters.
     
  19. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

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    You can't knock a guy for throwing 800 punches and landing only 400.
     
  20. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    Question for you (since you didn't answer it when i first posed it):

    What is your fucking criteria for being labelled a good offensive fighter?
     
  21. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    It's not that hard. Basically, which fighters in history most EFFECTIVELY implemented a devastating offense.

    Technique isn't a criteria. For instance, neither Foreman nor Marciano had great technique, yet both were great offensive fighters.
     
  22. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    Foreman doesn't belong on the list. Check out my criteria and list.
     
  23. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    Your criteria was created so a certain somebody could make the list.
     
  24. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    It's kinda absurd that Floyd would make the list over say, Leonard.

    I dunno in what world Floyd was a better offensive fighter than Leonard, but it ain't in this world.
     
  25. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    I can take mayweather off the list to make you feel better. But my point is that great offensive fighters have a large punch variety and are accurate.

    Joe Louis and Mike Tyson are the perfect examples. I don't see how Foreman or Hearns could be on the list.
     
  26. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    If you're going by Foreman's accuracy, during his first reign he damn sure wasn't no Arguello in accuracy.

    However, he wasn't lacking in punch variety.
     
  27. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    Floyd was a very good offensive fighter at 130.

    One of the top 10 all time best offensive fighters though? No.

    Top 5 all time defensive fighter, sure. But not offensive.
     
  28. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    Foreman was a monster of power and heavy hands but he looked like an old woman swinging frying pans.
     
  29. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    That's fine...my mistake for including him.

    Still I think when we speak of offensive talent we must be talking about accuracy, repertoire, speed, power, timing, ability to hurt with either hand combination.

    To be on the list you have to have all of that criteria.
     
  30. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    Ok. For once, I'll give it to you and admit you have a point. Foreman might not belong.
     

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