Does God exist or not?

[slystaff]

Yes, time to revisit an old topic that hasn't been done in a while.

Many who claim to be educated and knowledgeable suggest that the concept of a God is ludicrous. They say that it is kindergarten stuff akin to Santa Clause, Easter bunny and the tooth fairy. They say that it is a concept for those who need a "crutch" to lean on, or who need a simplistic explanation for the origins of life and the universe.

It is claimed that if you pick up a science book and do a little research, then ALL THE ANSWERS are there, and you will realize that the concept of God is laughable and that science itself explains the existence of everything.

The funny thing is...those that say this are in fact the naive ones, they are the ones that are believing in fairy tales that can be likened to Santa Clause. They are the ones who need a "crutch" to lean on. They are the ones that are accepting an ILLOGICAL explanation of the origins of the universe.

Science, logic, philosophy and even mathematics dictate the existence of God. No other option is possible!

Cause and effect!

Every effect, action, occurence is DEPENDANT upon a cause. This is the FIRST RULE, the FOUNDATION of natural logic. Every ideology, belief, doctrine, concept, understanding etc, is based primarily on CAUSE AND EFFECT!

So bearing this in mind, we can reject the concept that something came out of nothing without a cause. If there was ever NOTHING there would never be anything, since there are things, there was NEVER nothing, and if there was never NOTHING there was always SOMETHING!

However everything that changes, is temporal. If it changes over time, it means that it is dependent upon time and if it is dependent upon time...it had a beginning.

Therefore, the ever changing universe..HAD A BEGINNING. If it had a beginning, cause and effect denotes that it had a beginner!

Since there was never nothing there must have been something that existed before the universe that caused it to become.

I submit to you that the first cause was God. God may not be an old man in the sky with a beard...that's not important, what is important is that whatever God may be (an intelligent energy force/source or whatever)...he (it) HAS to exist, or with have a missing piece in the eternal equation of logic.

Could the cause of the universe have been another universe...in a sort of ongoing cycle?

Sure. But regardless...there had to be a FIRST CAUSE that started the cycle initially. Because if the cycle changes over time, it denotes that it had a beginning.

What caused God?

Nothing. He wasn't caused, because he didn't begin. God is not an occurence, an action....he is a constant. Logic doesn't dictate that he had to have had a beginning because the concept of God is that he doesn't change, and is therefore unaffected by time.

Anything that doesn't change is unaffected by time, therefore is outside of time, therefore is eternal.

SOMETHING had to be eternal, because as I said before, there was NEVER NOTHING!!

Feel free to attempt refute my thoughts and ask me any questions.

The Sly One has Spoken!!

[Rock on]

Convoluted and contradictry post. If u can't spot your contradiction then drop the bottle. :shaneUD12Oscar:

[slystaff]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Convoluted and contradictry post. If u can&#39;t spot your contradiction then drop the bottle. :shaneUD12Oscar: [/b][/quote]
Please point it out to me. Perhaps it isn&#39;t a contradiction at all and I just didn&#39;t clarify myself properly.

[cupey alto]

Come on Sly. We&#39;ve been through this one time and time again. Geez. You have to be pretty ignorant to think everything happened by chance or that we evolved from apes yet there are still apes. That&#39;s silly.

The real question is who&#39;s God is True God.

Cupey

[slystaff]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>

The real question is who&#39;s God is True God.

Cupey [/b][/quote]
We can address that if you wish as long as everyone present first accepts that there is a God.

[Sir Dice N Slice]

Two points I would like to make.

First, humans are not advanced mentally enough to comprehend all that goes on in the universe, we can only speculate, our "logic" is restricted only to our knowledge of our solar system and a little bit beyond. For example, gamma rays seem to blow Einsteins law of relativity out of the window, in fact shatter it completely. If something so basic and fundamental can be proved wrong, so can pretty much any of our "logic", we know next to nothing in the larger scheme of things, so it&#39;s foolish to speculate.

Secondly, if there is an "intelligent being" which created all in the universe, I sincerely doubt it is the God depicted in the Bible, or the Q&#39;uran, or whatever. What about the belief in reincarnation Sly? That is just as, if not more, plausible than the theory of everlasting life.

[Firstbase]

Dont think about so mutch,it´s not good for your brain bro.
Some questions cant be answer, this is one of them.

[LOK]

I liked Morgan Freedman&#39;s line in "the big bounce"

"God is an imaginary friend for adults"

I honestly honestly believe that if us (humans) survive another 200 years we will look back and laugh at all this "worship" It is nessary right now and although false it can still be positive

[slystaff]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> I liked Morgan Freedman&#39;s line in "the big bounce"

"God is an imaginary friend for adults"

I honestly honestly believe that if us (humans) survive another 200 years we will look back and laugh at all this "worship" It is nessary right now and although false it can still be positive [/b][/quote]
There is NO WAY to explain the existence of life itself (forget the inorganic matter of the universe), with it&#39;s intelligent processes, without an intelligent creator.

Inorganic matter cannot suddenly become alive, even the most primitive forms of life are infinitely more complex than the most advanced computer system.

The Sly One has Spoken&#33;&#33;

[BadkittyM]

As soon as talk turns to Politics, Sports or Theology, logic is the first thing to depart the region, never to return.
-Marcy

[Freddy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>

I honestly honestly believe that if us (humans) survive another 200 years we will look back and laugh at all this "worship" It is nessary right now and although false it can still be positive [/b][/quote]
You reckon? I don&#39;t&#33;

Science as a whole may give an illusion of progress, but the individual person on the street is getting dumber and shallower by the day. Most of our "progress" has just given us more toys to play with, less work to do and more ways to avoid using our brain.

Another 200 years of intellectual atrophy will leave us in no positon to "laugh" at anything other than ourselves.

[cupey alto]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>

I honestly honestly believe that if us (humans) survive another 200 years we will look back and laugh at all this "worship" It is nessary right now and although false it can still be positive [/b][/quote]
You reckon? I don&#39;t&#33;

Science as a whole may give an illusion of progress, but the individual person on the street is getting dumber and shallower by the day. Most of our "progress" has just given us more toys to play with, less work to do and more ways to avoid using our brain.

Another 200 years of intellectual atrophy will leave us in no positon to "laugh" at anything other than ourselves. [/b][/quote]
:lol:

[cupey alto]

I wonder why people say we are living in a progressive society? Does anybody real think the world is getting better? I&#39;m not sure what we&#39;ve accomplished socially to think that. Unless drive-by shootings and gay marriages is progress I just don&#39;t see it

Cupey

[D MAN]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Yes, time to revisit an old topic that hasn&#39;t been done in a while.

Many who claim to be educated and knowledgeable suggest that the concept of a God is ludicrous. They say that it is kindergarten stuff akin to Santa Clause, Easter bunny and the tooth fairy. They say that it is a concept for those who need a "crutch" to lean on, or who need a simplistic explanation for the origins of life and the universe.

It is claimed that if you pick up a science book and do a little research, then ALL THE ANSWERS are there, and you will realize that the concept of God is laughable and that science itself explains the existence of everything.

The funny thing is...those that say this are in fact the naive ones, they are the ones that are believing in fairy tales that can be likened to Santa Clause. They are the ones who need a "crutch" to lean on. They are the ones that are accepting an ILLOGICAL explanation of the origins of the universe.

Science, logic, philosophy and even mathematics dictate the existence of God. No other option is possible&#33;

Cause and effect&#33;

Every effect, action, occurence is DEPENDANT upon a cause. This is the FIRST RULE, the FOUNDATION of natural logic. Every ideology, belief, doctrine, concept, understanding etc, is based primarily on CAUSE AND EFFECT&#33;

So bearing this in mind, we can reject the concept that something came out of nothing without a cause. If there was ever NOTHING there would never be anything, since there are things, there was NEVER nothing, and if there was never NOTHING there was always SOMETHING&#33;

However everything that changes, is temporal. If it changes over time, it means that it is dependent upon time and if it is dependent upon time...it had a beginning.

Therefore, the ever changing universe..HAD A BEGINNING. If it had a beginning, cause and effect denotes that it had a beginner&#33;

Since there was never nothing there must have been something that existed before the universe that caused it to become.

I submit to you that the first cause was God. God may not be an old man in the sky with a beard...that&#39;s not important, what is important is that whatever God may be (an intelligent energy force/source or whatever)...he (it) HAS to exist, or with have a missing piece in the eternal equation of logic.

Could the cause of the universe have been another universe...in a sort of ongoing cycle?

Sure. But regardless...there had to be a FIRST CAUSE that started the cycle initially. Because if the cycle changes over time, it denotes that it had a beginning.

What caused God?

Nothing. He wasn&#39;t caused, because he didn&#39;t begin. God is not an occurence, an action....he is a constant. Logic doesn&#39;t dictate that he had to have had a beginning because the concept of God is that he doesn&#39;t change, and is therefore unaffected by time.

Anything that doesn&#39;t change is unaffected by time, therefore is outside of time, therefore is eternal.

SOMETHING had to be eternal, because as I said before, there was NEVER NOTHING&#33;&#33;

Feel free to attempt refute my thoughts and ask me any questions.

The Sly One has Spoken&#33;&#33; [/b][/quote]
Sly, I have used this identical argument every time that the discussion of God has come up... and eventually it has slowly dawned on everyone that I have told.. yes.. there MUST be a God.

Too many people get caught up in evolution, the Bible, re-incarnation, and other religious beliefs during the discussion of God.

People need to realize that these are all simply human interpratations of something that is to us completely foreign.

To believe in God, is not necessarily to be religious.

To deny the existance of God is ludicrous.

[black06]

I&#39;ve used this argument too but it&#39;s never had that effect for me... it usually just leads to really exotic theories & outright denial by stubborn minded people...I finally concluded people already have their minds made up on things like this by the time they reach a certain age & I should stop stressing myself out trying to show them otherwise