I hate BJJ

Discussion in 'General MMA Discussion' started by mexican wedding shirt, Apr 19, 2009.

  1. whiskey

    whiskey Czarcasm

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    Maybe Ruiz is a BJJ practioner that went into boxing for the bigger paydays? :lol:
     
  2. His_Royness

    His_Royness "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    The alternative would be Leites scoring a take down in NO time since Johnnyboy has no defense for that and break him whatever he wants on the ground and believe me it's the much more probable scenario...
     
  3. His_Royness

    His_Royness "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    do we have ignorant's united day or something?? :notallthere:
     
  4. jarhead

    jarhead Undisputed Champion

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    This fight would have been better with Pride rules for a grounded opponent, that is saying Silva would have stomped or soccer kicked a fellow Brazilian.
     
  5. winner by choke

    winner by choke Undisputed Champion

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    hahahahaha really?

    at least karl can somewhat back up when he tries to act like a badass...you im not so sure.
     
  6. whiskey

    whiskey Czarcasm

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    :bears:
     
  7. Registered

    Registered "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    I actually practice BJJ, but that was f*cking funny to read.
     
  8. royyjonesjrp4pno1

    royyjonesjrp4pno1 "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Leites would have been DQ'd for stalling in Pride.
     
  9. whiskey

    whiskey Czarcasm

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    If the ref was able to make the call before Leites got his head kicked into the stands.
     
  10. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    Where's the ignorance in what I said? I'm not questioning it's effectiveness one bit. I just think it's fairly fucking gay way to win a fight. In fact it's about a quarter notch above other highly effective approaches like biting, eye gouging and hair pulling in the honour department.

    One things for sure, the term 'noble art' was never gonna be applied to two guys rolling around with their crotches pressed against each other looking to end a fight by twisting the other guys arm around.
     
  11. TKO

    TKO Administrator Staff Member

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    Sorry hut but that is bollox - I've never train in BJJ but I have often use a choke to get me outta trouble. :hammert:
     
  12. ArturoGatti

    ArturoGatti WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    I know Leites fought like a guys just trying to go the distance, but in the past he has actually showed plenty of heart, liek against Kampmann and Nate Marquardt.
     
  13. His_Royness

    His_Royness "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    I think it's very smart, skillful and highly effective... If you think only punching or wrestling is manly then we just disagree. I call it ignorant since i guess you're just not getting it but maybe it's just short-sighted or a matter of taste... whatever. I think if you have the right to call a BJJ guy girly then calling you ignorant is not much bigger of a cheap-shot... :dunno:


    @ Gatti - exactly - it HAS to do with how good Silva is. Maybe it's his intimidating aura or seeming invincebility - but it really looks TOO easy/effortless (literally) how he shut Leites down. You could see that if Leites would have engaged more, Silva would have iced him. So for the fans all there is to it is complaining about his unwillingness to take a risk. I can't really blame Leites since he had no chance in hell other than ending on the receiving end of a highlight reel KO.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  14. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    Fair enough. You're right that it's personal taste. I suppose I just have a quaint 19th century notion of a fair fight being a contest of strength, bravery, smarts & wills. Guess my minds stuck in the playground where a fight was about ego and honour - and ending a fight with a hold or a choke would pretty much be regarded as a bitch move and wouldn't settle anything. Kids understand at some instinctive level that that kind of thing is more like a way to get out of a fight than a way to win it and I guess I still feel the same way.
     
  15. His_Royness

    His_Royness "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    I can see where you're coming from but i assure you after some BJJ guy rips your elbow in two or dislocates a knee, ankle most guys would feel that settles a FUCKLOAD... at least for that day and some months of rehab... :lol:

    KOing someone with a hayemaker to the jaw is also just getting out of the fight... ;)
     
  16. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    true. I guess it's just the fact that a 15 year old girl could probably tap a 200lb man given the right leverage takes something out of the concept of a fight as a contest of strength and wills between two men. In the end it just feels much less impressive and primal.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  17. TFK

    TFK WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Most street fights end up on the ground anyway, so it's better to be good with BJJ then to be good with your hands.

    TFK
     
  18. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    What percentage of street fights involving people who are good with their hands (that aren't against trained grapplers) end up on the ground though? Very few. There are many reasons I would rather be a skilled boxer on the street than a BJJ practitioner, but we'll leave that debate for another time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  19. Azazel

    Azazel "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    not the majority of street fights end up on the ground, thats bs, in fact its the other way around. I ve seen more than my share of streetfights ( not necessarely that I was personnaly involved but I go out a lot and Montreal is kind of renkonwed for having a lot of street fights ) and none ended up on the ground for long except one when I was in a high shcool ( typical hs fight where people circle them to watch ). In real life, you dont want to end up on the ground as you are way too vulnerable to a soccer kick or stomp from someone else.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  20. Azazel

    Azazel "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    not even close, if you have a decent strenght advantage, you are pretty much immune to every bjj tactics
     
  21. Azazel

    Azazel "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    not even close, if you have a decent strenght advantage, you are pretty much immune to every bjj tactics ( unelss you tired of course )
     
  22. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    Agreed. I once read an article formatted as a round table interview with a bunch of guys who taught street defense for a living and they were fairly unanimous in their opinion that that stat about most street fights ending on the ground was BS too. They were certainly unanimous that it isn't applicable to guys who are trained to fight. And in any case, deliberately taking the fight to the ground in your average street situation is an insane tactic and one you should try to avoid if at all possible.
     
  23. His_Royness

    His_Royness "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    no way but yeah... prolly as easy as Ivan Calderon would whoop me in a stand up fight...
     
  24. His_Royness

    His_Royness "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Yeah of course none end on the ground... because no one has a fucking clue what to do there... :notallthere:

    What's the fucking point, lol.
     
  25. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    TFK made the point that BJJ is better than boxing for the street because most fights end on the ground. Me and Azazel disagreed with him.
     
  26. His_Royness

    His_Royness "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    It's pretty simple on the street - talking about stupid fights jackasses like you and me should better stay out of anyways, none of the guys have any skills. Because the people who have, train at a gym and do something with it.

    So if you can do ONE thing good, may it be striking or BJJ or whatever you will whip most of the clowns on the "street".

    If a boxer has no takedown defense and the BJJ guy knows how to score one then the boxer has the chance of a lucky punch and that's about it.

    The more well rounded you are the better that's why the GOOD MMA guys can do anything including grappling. If you lack in one department it's going to be exposed.


    Me i have no clue what most streetfights look like so i dunno who is wrong or right here, but a boxer against a BJJ guy - the boxer better lands quick or most of that shit WILL definitely hit the ground.
     
  27. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Fuck you.
     
  28. winner by choke

    winner by choke Undisputed Champion

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    if you are ever near SD we can roll or spar and me being inactive for about a year and 140 LBS surely you will have a big strength advantage over me.

    you can show your immunity to all bjj techniques.
     
  29. winner by choke

    winner by choke Undisputed Champion

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    what happened when joe frazier and muhammad ali scuffled?

    holmes/berbick?

    tyson/lewis?

    rahman/lewis?

    pernell whitaker when he was beaten up by a police officer?

    even when boxers fight, typically in a real fight, the fight hits the ground. im a blue belt in jiu jitsu and a good grappler could score a takedown and pummel me right through my sprawl/guard game.

    i fail to see how any boxer that does not either have a huge mass or natural athleticism advantage could even stop a takedown from a good high school wrestler, let alone a world class grappler.

    david haye thinks lightweights in the UFC could beat the majority of heavyweight boxers in a real fight(which i disagree with). and he certainly thinks the heavyweights could as well. as do oneil bell, floyd mayweather sr, thomas hearns, roy jones jr, george foreman, and mike tyson. you know what they all have in common?

    experience fighting in the street and in other martial art disciplines.

    this is not to count out any world class boxer from beating up any mixed martial artist (although in a "fair" fight it would be highly unlikely)
     
  30. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    The point isn't that a boxer could stop a trained wrestler or UFC guy. It's self evident that 8/10 they can't. It's that he doesn't have to because in the real world the amount of people who are trained grapplers is 1/1000.

    And a few things about the boxing scuffles you gave. Firstly Rahman-lewis & Ali-Frazier weren't proper fights where the two guys were trying to hurt each other. Secondly Tyson-Lewis was more of a rugby scrum involving about 15 people. And thirdly even if they were proper fights matching one world class boxer against another is almost as contrived a situation for judging the value of boxing on the streets as matching them against any other skilled fighter.

    Your average self defense situation is just against a thug, not a trained fighter. But the point is that thug might have a knife in his pocket and he'll probably have friends with him who are itching to get involved if they have the opportunity. Hence the advantage of staying on your feet, controlling range, being able to deal with third parties etc. Grappling's a very useful skill but the majority of street situations are better suited to a boxers skill set than a BJJ guy, IMO. That was the only point. If something was gonna kick off outside a nightclub I'd rather have a ranked amateur boxer watching my back than a BJJ blue belt. Just my personal opinion. Although of course if the boxer was ALSO a blue belt in BJJ all the better.
     

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