Julio Cesar Chavez Jr Thread

Boxings newest upcoming star fights again on Saturday. I know alot of people don't like Chavez because of his competition but i see alot good things from a guy with little amatuer experience. He goes to the body to set up/break his opponents down like an experienced veteran. His defence seems to be improving as the calibre of opponents gets better.

His opponent on Saturday Ray Sanchez has a 20-1 (15 KO's) record (thanks boxrec) but thats all i know about him. Another interesting fact is the most hes ever weighed in is 151 so it appears he is a small Jr Middleweight.

So has anybody seen Sanchez and is he a threat to JCC Jr?

 

Sanchez was a hell of a amatuer, he for some reason never seemed to really shine in the pros yet, he beat some very good fighters, including Juan Diaz twice in the am's, I think that there is a great chance that he wins saturday.

I am going to throw a few bucks on him.

 

dsimon writes:

I have not seen Sanchez but share your affection for 'yunior".... Do we need a bandwagon Royness? The kid has a lot of poise and.... like you said he goes to the body which in this day and age is rare and worthy of praise. Besides we have to fight the haters off. ::

 

don't care...

 

The guy's the very definition of "handpicking bum-beater". Every young sh*t coming up can look the part like he's got the fundamentals down pat and anybody can look good when all you're doing is fighting guys half your f*cking size, not to mention they're all specially handpicked to pad your joke record.
All we've seen of him is that he can throw smooth punches and has a good body attack, but against who?
What's gonna happen when somebody with actual skill smashes a left hook right on his jaw and snaps his head back? He's experienced NOTHING in his career yet. Unbelievable that you can pad a record and get exposure on tv while having fought jack sh*t in your crappy career.
He looks like a soft frontrunner pussy to me anyway with a china chin. One big test and he'll be crying and bleeding on his old man's lap.
He's fodder, he'll amount to nothing.
Boxing fans are just latching on to him because we got nothing else coming up in our sport so we'll take whatever we can get.

 

and that reason is, he has no chin.

Boxing-wise, this is a damn good test for Chavez Jr., though of course he'll get zero credit after beating him. Since very few have heard of Sanchez, the after-the-fact know-it-alls (in other words, the Manny Steward within all skeptics) will insist the kid was just another hand-picked bum, why is everyone wasting their time talking about and showcasing Junior, blah blah blah.

I've liked Junior almost from jump. He's come a long way since his first pro fight. And to recycle my old argument everytime the topic arises, once people stop expecting a clone of his father (which is asking too much of at least 95% of any generation of boxers), they'll see that the kid has mad talent and potential.

 

He's got nothing. Any dipsh*t can put together a few crisp punches against handpicked physically overmatched club bums. He's going to get the Wlad treatment when he runs into a Corrie Sanders type puncher. Rocked and dropped all over the ring and that'll be it for him. Another hyped up bum bites the dust!

 

dsimon writes:

Typical ignorant Junior post.... lets look at its features because quite a few of them have the same features:

1) A general tone of outrage that Junior, that little bastard should have the gall to use his family's vocation and connections to get ahead in the world. How dare he get early exposure! There are other much more accomplished fighters that young you know! :: Chavez Senior should tell his son to do what Margarito does: "beat up Tijuana cab drivers and black guys who like Sequins and wait your turn in line." Its not like people use their family connections inthis world! Why George Bush got to be president just cause people felt an affinity to him cause he is so damn stupid and likable! :doh:

2) A very strong conviction that the first tme junior fights a live opponent he will naturally go down... i mean look at how bad he has been doing its obvious right? :dunno: Those bums that Junior has been learning the craft through? they are chomping on the bit.... they almost get him we just aren't paying attention.... surely he will crumble, its not like he is learning how to set up his punches, take his time and learning the craft of boxing right? :dunno: He is just padding his record.

3) And of course the classic; "Boxing fans are a bunch of mean spirited pedophiles, especially hispanic fans because they like this guy... they ony like him because (fill in the blanks)_________. a) he is Mexican b)he is Chavez's son. Oh yeah we all know that Latino boxing fans are so bxing illeterate, they will latch on to any guy wearing a sombrero with a Catholic name... Its not like they study the sport and know about rare traits like decent body punching, heart and what it takes to come along slowly and actually learn a craft that takes years to learn.

Basically all junior hating posts follow the trajectory of Hanzy's post and wouldn't you know it? Most junior haters are also Floyd haters... go figure! These are often the fans who don't like to see elite skills and the time and effort to build them.... they prefer guys like Gatti because dammit Gatti didn't rely on them faggot skills... he just threw punches and took them like a man! ::

 

I ain't a Floyd fan or a Gatti fan. Gatti's a joke with guts like Mickey Ward. Floyd's just a fake thug with a big mouth who bores fans to death. As for Jr, he's going down hard!
He's nothing! I like how the 'true' fans on here enjoy seeing boxing skill and seem to get a hard on because Jr throws nice crisp punches. Motherf*cker hasn't taken sh*t in return and that's what 60% of boxing is all about. He's only got 40% covered. Watch what happens when he fights a legit fighter who can actually crack an egg.

 

Seriously, Hanzy, post-prime Tyson, what boxer ARE you a fan of? I don't think i've ever seen you give any fighter praise, other than the 80's version of Tyson, and "boxers" portrayed as fictional movie characters.

 

I'm also confused about one thing, dsimon. You talk sh*t about Wladimir and yet you're latched onto Jr despite Wlad having fought the best while Jr ain't done squat. What are your motives exactly. Do you just hate Europeans and love Mexicans?:dunno: Or do you play favourites?:crafty:

 

Young Roy Jones Jr, Wladimir Klitschko(although only recently), Lennox Lewis, James Toney, Felix Trinidad, Tommy Hearns, Julian Jackson, young south african Corrie Sanders intrigued me for a while when he was in shape, there were a lot of them. I just don't feel the need to latch onto an unproven bum beater like Jr as most are doing.

 

I love Chavez. If there's a bandwagon, put me on.

I've loved watching him from the get-go. You know the skills aren't there yet, so watching him develop has been great. You see something new almost every time. First it was body-punching. Then it was him following up upstairs. Then it was movement. Then it was defense. Then he started parrying punches.

He's still very mechanical with it, but he's getting to be more fluid.

I feel like I'm learning along with him.

And these "handpicked bums" he's fighting are giving other prospects who are giving fits to other fighters who supposedly deserve the air time that Chavez Jr. is getting.

To top it all off, his younger brother is WAY better!

 

Sanchez was just caught, simple as that.
Ive seen him take better punches and possibly underestimated his opponent, no way he does that Saturday, Arum may have made a mistake by putting this in New Mexico.
Kassim Ouma and many other guys were KOed or beaten by fighters with crappy records early in their career but show a helluva better chin and much better skills later when they are more prepared.

 

dsimon writes:

Vlad is a guy who has been taught to capitolize on his physical attributes. Him and his brother learned how to use size and speed to dominate smaller guys. While both Klits had good amateur careers they were imo groomed to be professionals in the sense that most pre soviet athletes were.... just put through the right program more or less.

The result is two guys who don't have any of the creativity, subtlety, or ability to improvise that a guy like Toney for example has. If the klits were ice cream they would have the right amount of sugar milk, cream and eggs but no flavor... to use an analogy. I like European fighters like Hatton, who have developed a distinct style, but yeah I find the Euro style generally too stilted.

Junior has flavor... I don't care what ethnic, or what program you come from... actually I tend to like the Cuban and Puerto Rican Hispanic fighters the best style wise, but I digress. Junior is the kid who hangs around the gym and gets the flavor, I am sure he sat at his dad's trainer's knees as a baby. You can't quantify this experience imo, it is the same as when you practice the same martial art in the Y compared to in a monastery....

Through the years, slowly as a kid you learn the craft and style that is Mexican boxing. That is how it was done in the old days with all fighters... Instead of fighting overathletic bums like Michael Grant, you had guys like Marciano who got taught the ropes slowly and carefully. Junior comes out of this superior way. His dad was a fighter and he is being brought along slowly as a fighter as well, that is why he is so polished. When he is ready no doubt he will fight his "Torres" as Cotto did.. all in due time.

My point is that you can't quantify some things Hanzy. I don't dislike any ethnic group of fighters but I recognize when a fighter is being totally immersed and skilled in his craft, versus a fighter who is being trained quickly as an athlete exclusively to have some big fights and thats it. Here is an anology for you: I can cook a curry quickly in a pressure cooker that tastes damn good, but is it the same as a curry slow cooked all day? You can't compare them. Guys like Vlad are intelligent, well educated guys who have other options and are fighting to try to get a title... and then move on. Guys like Chavez and his son are fighters through and through and will continue to train generations in the subtleties and craft that distinguishes the Mexican fighter.

I tend to look at boxing as a martial art that takes this commitment.

Edit: Quitaly is a perfect example of this BTW. He knows he can stop fighting at any time he feels like it and if his poor shoulder does not feel right he just won't fight. Guys like Grant, the Klits, Peter, have no real commitment peter can't even show up to a fight in shape. Compare that to a guy like Brock who is at least willing to try to learn to box a bit. Brock will beat Peter on this account BTW

 

dsimon writes:

:bears:

 

well, best of luck with your modest investment this weekend ::

 

What??????? Please tell me you didn't type that. Dsimon, Wladimir has been boxing all his life, from amateurs to professionals, having won the gold medal. Even when his walls caved in and the roof fell on him in disgraceful humiliating losses, the man stepped back, re-evaluated, and fought on. Does that seem like a flash in the pan fighter who's only looking for a title so he can move on? He's trying to unify the division and he's shown tremendous courage and heart to have gotten as far as he's gotten despite all the naysayers. He could've very easily have been a complete bust.
And now you're saying Chavez Jr is a warrior through and through despite never having taken a shot to the chin in his entire life not to mention beating up on overmatched bums?
Give me a break!:doh: One guy is proven and you talk sh*t about him, one guy is completely unproven and yet you're building his wagon just because he grew up with an old man who had warrior spirit.
Your argument is flawed, ds.
And Wlad hasn't moved on yet either. If he only cared about fame, fortune and titles, he wouldn't still be here putting his ass on the line and still trying to unify the division.
And Chavez hasn't proven anything in his career, he hasn't proven he's a warrior, he hasn't been in any war, he hasn't tasted his own blood, he hasn't been knocked down and tried to get up and win. He's proven jack sh*t!!!!!! I don't care if he's a mexican anything, he hasn't proven anything to get the accolades he's getting.
And no way does he deserve credit whereas somebody like Wlad gets sh*t on. Makes no sense whatsoever!

 

dsimon writes:

Chavez is young of course he hasn't been in any wars yet. And you are using inflated terms like Warrior, etc, not me. Why should Chavez be in any wars yet? Part of boxing is learning the craft so you have the skills to deal when you do get in a war. Whats the rush?:dunno:

I said in my post that Vlad had an extensive career. Vlad has been exposed before, not junior... keep that in mind. Vlad gets shit for some stuff that is not his fault, I grant you that. I mean the division is shit right now and that is not Vlad's fault.

I just don't care for Vlad, I find him robotic and wooden. That is a preference. I also feel like Vlad and his brother have so many other options that boxing is one of the things they pursue. I also think a decent heavy would destroy him. But again thats just my opinion.

You just want to throw junior to the lions face it Hanzy. ::

 

So obviously you've admitted you're playing favourites. Simple enough dsimon.:clap: I personally find Wlad no less robotic and wooden than Jr but to each his own. It's your preference and your opinion.
As for Wlad pursuing other things, sure.....don't we all have options in our lives, ds? Who forced Wlad to risk his life in the most brutal sport in the world?
Chavez Jr is a boxer by choice, he can do many other things in his life like sit on his father's bank account if he chooses.
I just shudder to think how your stance will change once Jr gets murdered. He'll be another forgotten little sh*t in a long line of forgotten sh*ts.::

 

Wow alot of love for JR.:bears:

 

Hanzy, I'm printing out this entire thread, translating it into Spanish and will present it to Julio Sr. and Jr. when I land in Albuquerque tomorrow. He needs to be made aware of the ongoing antics of the keyboard warriors at this website.

 

Nah, it's just a bunch of bandwagoners riding a hot streak like all sports fans tend to do. Watch them do a complete 180 in due time.::

 

He'll realize just how many bandwagoners exist in the world.

 

All prospects pad their record at the start. The major difference with Jr is that he has little amatuer experience.

 

Big deal. Does that mean he needs to be showcased on ppvs and big ppv undercards while he learns to box? What was stopping him from learning his trade in the amateurs? Only because of his old man can he be showcased on tv and fighting nobodies while learning the art.

 

He is a big star thats why. The hispanic fan base is one of the biggest in the sport and hispanics love JCC Jr.

 

They loved his father. They'll love anybody associated with his old man. But you're not hispanic and you'll care less about him once he meets the canvas.::

 

I never understood this complaint. People bitch that he's appeared on PPV undercards. How is that his fault? Blame the promoter and/or the network. WTF is the kid supposed to say - no, my fight doesn't deserve to be on TV, please don't air my bout?