Before calling Pacquiao the GOAT(gohe?)

Lets not leave something out that has rarely been mentioned.

His style is extremely awkward and hard to figure out, however he has shown in the past his ability to be thrown off his rhythm by a hard jab and sound defense.

Has Pacquiao (who i already consider a top 10-15 fighter of all time) EVER beaten a slick boxer? Sounds absurd but really has he?

Take some fights off the resume of all great champions (Pryor, Hagler, etc.) and they look unbeatable. Styles make fights and Pacquiao has never fought a good athletic (black?) fighter.

Mayweather will be the last great challenge for Pacquiao, I fear he may be out of his element and schooled.

Thoughts?

 

If PBF beats him, it won't be because he's black.

 

Ledwaba was considered a slick boxer at the time and was a big favourite over Pac. Obviously he's not in the class of Floyd but Manny handled him just fine.

 

Agreed.

Ledwaba was being hyped up, and Manny was considered last minute replacement cannon fodder ::

HBO had never even heard of him. I watched that fight a few months ago actually, hilarious. Manny beat the absolute shit out of him.

Plus - Marquez might not have the athleticism, but he's certainly a slick, crafty boxer. And I thought Manny won the first fight hands down.

 

Plz, hardly a good comparison. Ledwaba was on record saying he couldn't train properly because of the heat in Las Vegas. ::

(joking, but Ledwaba DID say that)

 

but ledwaba was way undersized. Guzman would've been a good choice to test pacquiao against that kind of style. Anyway, I think pac would've beating him.

 

I do think it is fair to say that JMM is the slickest boxer Pac has ever faced. And while IMO he won BOTH of those fights close but clear... Mayweather has proven that he is a much slicker fighter than JMM.

 

I can understand that with him coming from Arctic like South Africa.

 

That's just thing, there haven't a lot of that "type" of fighter around Pac's weight class since he's become big.

I suppose Guzman would be one of the few. (and of course Floyd)

 

For sure, nobody is saying Pacman has faced as boxer as slick as Mayweather, that goes without saying.

But it's also wrong to say Pacman has never beaten a slick boxer.

 

::

 

yeah Leonard also never defeated a skill black? fighter....

 

As I said, I wasn't comparing him to Floyd, that would be silly, but he was considered a slick operator at the time, and was a big favourite.

 

tommy hearns? benitez?

ledwaba was very good (or at least i thought he was) but not very athletic or fast. one of the big problems is the lack of slick boxers small enough to fight at featherweight, however there are several in the 140-160 range.

marquez is a master boxer, but i think of him more as the consummate counter-puncher more than a slick boxer.

duran for example was nearly unbeatable. however when faced with slick boxers (leonard, benitez, laing, and to a lesser extent dejesus and buchanan) he obviously had trouble.

pacquiao has thrived fighting guys who do not have educated jabs, and that he is much faster than. how will he do when that style is (for the most part) ineffective against someone equally as quick?

cotto kept him off balance for the first 4 rounds (sans the knockdowns) by jabbing to keep pacquiao out of the middle range (where he is most effective)

 

Pacquiao won round 2 easily. Round 3 too, even without the knockdown.

Cotto only won 2 rounds, rounds 1 and 4, which he won clearly.

But I agree that in those rounds Cotto's stiff, accurate jab was certainly doing a good job.

 

agreed.

also i must add that marquez in the second fight kept pacquiao off balance for a majority of the fight with his jab.

mayweather has a much faster and stiffer jab that MAY stifle pacquiao's offense.

 

my response was entirely a joke. you guys really suck sometimes

 

Yep, mayweather's jab is indeed quick and accurate.

And although Floyd's jab must sting, from the quickness and accuracy, it doesn't have much weight behind it. Cotto's jab is much heavier.

Floyd may well win this fight, but I am picking Pacman. Since moving up in weight he's looked better and better each fight, and I have no doubt he'll be at the top of his game against Floyd, and have a good plan, and won't just be blindly following Floyd around getting picked off like most of the others.

And in regards to similar fighters, well the last speedy southpaw with a punch Floyd fought was Judah, and Floyd was losing at the halfway stage and got knocked down for the only time in his career, although it wasn't counted.

 

My bad :doh:, I thought you were just joking about the second part, it's all good :kidcool:

 

Agreed

 

agreed again, cotto jab is much heavier (probably because he is left handed).

i just hope pacquiao doesnt come out take some jabs and fall into a bad rhythm and get schooled. it will come down to who imposes their gameplan really, and i think mayweathers natural size and quickness advantage will be a huge factor in this fight.

if pacquiao cant get to him early it could be a long night, IE the first 5 rounds of leonard-hearns (until leonard landed a "lucky" shot::)

 

While that's true, i don't think the power of it really matters. Floyd's jab is used more to disrupt a fighter's rhythm than to do damage. He won't really have to hurt Pac with it to be effective. However the great thing about Manny is that he doesn't have to be set to punch. I think Floyd's lead right hand will be a more important weapon than the jab.

 

solid post punk haha

the same problem was evident during roy jones jr.'s prime.

everybody thought they would try to bully him and overwhelm him and they all got battered because they fell into his rhythm. the people who had success were counter-punchers and boxers (montell griffin, eric harding) people with infallible rhythm and speed must be put off of their rhythm early, because once they get it going, it is over.

you have to make the benitez, ali, mayweather, jones jr. etc. lead. that is why i picked antonio tarver to be the first one to beat roy jones before their first fight. i thought he would be able to frustrate roy. i turned out to be wrong, and only right by luck (roy was weight drained for their first fight)

 

All the things Pacquaio has thrived on...fighting guys that come straight him, don't have an educated jab, he faster than them..etc...same thing Mayweather has been doing...

 

while that is true to some extent, i believe mayweather has fought a much wider array of styles with success.

dlh (at a comfortable weight) and judah were far faster and better than ANY of pacquiao's opponents(at pure boxing only). ironically those were his two toughest fights.

everybody has problems with slick fighters, EVERYBODY.

take out his fights with outboxers and salvador sanchez looks pretty unbeatable, could be the same with pacquiao.

 

Yep. Although i wouldn't be surprised if Manny won, (still favor Floyd though) i'd be really shocked if he won in dominant fashion.

The only thing harder than beating a slick boxer is looking good doing it.

 

Ledwaba, Jorge Julio, Larios...he's missing a top tier guy, but they are quite decent and he didn't have any problems