Júlio César Chávez v Floyd Mayweather Jr

Im not sure Pac even BEATS prime Taylor.

 

Tyson broke Ruddock's jaw and ribs in the rematch. Lewis got a softened version.

 

Taylor was fast handed and slick but his face after the first Chavez fights tells the story of how hittable he was. Imagine Pacquiao who throws 100 punches a round for 13 rounds, hitting him.

 

Ok...but you know I can find other examples to make my point.

 

Yes, that's the title of the pamphlet I hand out outside the train station

 

While on steroids.

 

Perhaps I underrate Chavez slightly, I don't know, I think I'll go back and watch some Chavez fights soon.

He was one of those guys I didn't see until I'd heard loads of hype about him, how amazing he was, and the best Mexican boxer ever.

And I was like, "Is that it? THIS is Chavez?". I mean, he's good sure, but just looked like a good solid pressure fighter to me, basic. He didn't wow me like Duran did when I first saw him, or even many other ATGs actually.

 

Man, you don't need to tell me that, I always argue that case Shit, Golovkin is a prime example. I've been saying for YEARS Golovkin is an excellent "boxer", and that people who call him a brawler or say he just has power have no idea what they're talking about, and that of course you can be an aggressive boxer, to be a "boxer" you don't need to be on your toes jabbing.

And of course I know Chavez is a skilled boxer. Yeah Chavez's defence was decent, but nowhere near Duran like, not in the same league. Honestly his defence didn't exactly look great against the fast sharpshooters he fought did it? Duran's defence looked amazing even in the Brawl in Montreal, against a peak Leonard.

But Marquez has always impressed me, long before the Pacman fights. He has excellent skill and intelligence, a great variety of punches, excellent left hook, a pretty good jab, great timing and accuracy, and some of the best counters in the sport.

 

There's no proof of that, though the introduction of Heredia was obviously highly suspicious.

 

I would actually have to answer Sly's question with a sincere and resounding "Yes".

Duran was undoubtedly a god amongst men. A higher level of human being, bestowed with natural fighting ability mere mortals could only dream of.

 

Marquez was DEFINITELY on the juice the night he stretched Pac.

 

If that happened he would shoot Tszyu 4 times.

 

You're almost right

I would shoot Tszyu 3 times, then shoot Hamed once right between the eyes.

Contrary to popular belief I don't actually hate Tito or Chavez. I mean, style wise and human being wise, neither of them offend me. I'm actually a big fan of stalking punchers and pressure fighters. It's more that I find them both so overrated.

Chavez and Gonzalez remind me of each other. Solid little pressure fighters. Good, dependable little workhorses. But neither is anywhere near as special as advertised.

 

Chcolatito couldn't carry Chavez's piss bucket.

 

Let's not overrate Chocolatito now. He's an excellent fighter but nowhere near a prime Julio.

Julio would have easily reigned in today's 130-140 pound divisions IMO, with only TC having a shot at beating him but even that's doubtful for me. Mikey Garcia is an excellent fighter in his own right but he wouldn't be able to hang either.

 

I agree Chavez was better - but they're stylistically similar, and what you see is what you get - a solid little pressure fighter.

 

Chavez was fucking amazing

 

That part is where we disagree. I see nothing amazing about him. Very good, yes, but I see nothing amazing, and IMO not one of his wins is amazing.

Duran, a similar size 5'7 lightweight moving up 2 divisions and dominating peak undefeated Leonard, that is fucking amazing.

 

He was the ultimate pressure machine and one of the most precise and accurate punchers ever

 

Being a proper pressure fighter also takes a lot of skill.

Cutting off the ring, shortening/adjusting the range on your punches, chopping down the body, slipping punches inside, etc.

I think most perceived "brawlers" are written off and labeled as one dimensional but that is actually very far from the truth. To do what JCC did was incredible. One of the most gifted fighters I've had the privilege to watch.

 

Exactly and he was able to it without most of the natural athletic talents so many pressure fighters have. He was above average on a lot of categories but he wasn't particularly fast either of hand or foot and did not possess one punch KO power. He had very good stamina but often started slow and wasn't an Aaron Pryor in there throwing a zillion punches. Attribute wise his chin was probably his only A+ category.

 

Based on what? Putting on 5lb of muscle in 6 months(!!!!!!!!!!!). Maybe he just bought a barbell and some steak?

 

I think chavez probably manages to outwork Floyd but it's not a given, naturally. It's the type of fight where ring size is important. Floyd can run but probably can't hide

Anybody trying to draw inferences from the taylor fight is wandering down a deadend, obv...taylor threw the second most punches in any championship fight in compubox history and floyd is probably the lowest output great ever

 

Unless you count more intangible stuff like balance and coordination. That composure probably can't be taught either. The guy was like a german engineered industrial product

 

Agreed, a solid little workhorse.

That's why I'm not a fan tbh. As I'm sure most of you know, I fucking love pressure fighters. And yes, of course I know it's a style that takes a lot of skill, and a lot of focus and mental strength.

But I like my pressure fighters to be a bit more clever/creative/explosive. It's why I love Duran, and why Pacquiao/Morales/Tyson are my other favourite fighters. I also like Armstrong.

Chavez is just a bit TOO workmanlike for me.

 

Floyd doesn't need to hide from Chavez...and neither does he need to outwork him. Mayweather has beaten bigger guys than Chavez has beaten. Do you think Chavez could have beaten the Oscar that Floyd beat? Floyd could stay in the pocket with Chavez and still beat him. Floyd is bigger than him, more elusive than him, stronger than him, just as tough as him, just as much stamina as him, as good a chin as him. Chavez was a small cute little fella...to beat Floyd you have to be taller and faster than him at the very least.

 

Who was better at 154 is totally irrelevant

 

nuh uh! It's relevant to the point of Floyd needing to run from Chavez and not being able to stand his ground. Floyd was one STRONG MOTHERFUCKER. His success against big guys is evidence of that.

 

Agreed. His constant pressure would trouble Floyd, but ultimately he's too small and basic to beat Floyd.

 

I'm not saying he needs to run to survive - he could do fine in close for spells, he's an outstanding in-fighter - but he ain't standing in the pocket with chavez for long periods and winning a decision