Júlio César Chávez v Floyd Mayweather Jr

The idea that chavez is 'basic' is bizarre

 

ok, that's fair. I would agree that Floyd couldn't "rope a dope" to a decision. That wont work against a guy like chavez. but he definitely doesn't have to run.

 

He is basic though, how is he not? He's accurate, skilled, solid defense, but a basic pressure fighter. He has far less tricks and facets to his game than more intelligent pressure fighters like Duran and Golovkin.

He is essentially the ultimate version of a basic pressure fighter.

 

I can't see how a guy who could go forward successfully landing that variety and volume of shots while slipping, parrying and rolling so much of the in coming could be basic. I think that can only be based on a misreading of just what he was doing in there

 

By run I mean just that - stay away from a fight like that. Much more difficult in a small ring, it'd be a significant factor

With two good hands and a 20ft ring floyd has every chance tho...maybe better than 50%

 

LOL at Chavez being a "solid little workhorse"... FFS

JESUS Chavez was a "solid little workhorse"

 

That Iron Mike Tyson was a handy little puncher

 

Chavez was not basic imo. And agree that that conclusion is possible only through a misreading of what he's doing in there.

 

That fellow Pernell Whitaker was a pretty clever little boxer, not bad

 

When he fought the best fighters of his career, I didn't really see this masterful slipping, parrying, and rolling you speak. I saw a guy plodding forward and getting picked apart, while trying to slip and counter, and not really getting it done like a true masterful pressure fighter in Duran.

You're making him sound like Duran, and that's the issue I have with Chavez. The level of hype and esteem bestowed on him. He was good, but not that fucking good. Isn't one his absolute best wins supposed to be Rosario? Pretty fucking far cry from the Fab 4 isn't it?

And how am I misreading what he was doing in there? He comes forward constantly, throws some nice compact accurate punches, and wears people down. What am I missing?

He was a good fundamental boxer. Good at picking shots, compact, accurate punches, good punching technique, and pretty good defense. But I don't see the level of intelligence, and traps and feints from him that I see from most other all time greats, which is probably why he lost to the best fighters he faced.

 

Agreed, defo more clever than Chavez

 

That's exactly right, Jesus Chavez was a solid little workhorse. Similar, stylistically. JC Chavez was just a better solid little workhorse, the stud of all solid little workhorses

 

I feel like the only Chavez fights you've seen are when he was an old man against guys like Hoya or hopelessly shot against guys like Tszyu

Who were all these guys "picking him apart"? Please don't say Taylor

Hell I wouldn't even say Whitaker "picked him apart"

 

He was already past his best days when he first lost a fight (to an ATG in Whitaker)

So who are all these "best guys he faced" that beat him? Guy was unbeaten

 

I agree not Taylor, Taylor just threw a shit load of punches. Pea, Randall, and Oscar all picked him apart.

I was exaggerating with him getting "picked apart" by anyone good he faced, but the truth is his impressive performances came against guys like Rosario, who is a total scrub compared to guys Duran beat.

 

You guys are overreacting to my opinion too. For starters, I'm not saying he's a scrub, or that he is without skill (like some people absurdly label Golovkin). I've said he's very good, and a good fundamental boxer.

I'm simply saying he's overrated, and that his style is basic compared to other ATGs, lacking the depth and intelligence of other greats.

You guys have known me long enough to know that I understand boxing well enough to not be insulted with the old "You don't know what you're watching" because I think Chavez's style is basic. I know exactly what he does well, but also know there aren't really any facets to his game compared to other all time elites. Which is probably why he struggled when he aged, as pressure fighting is a young man's game, and he didn't have enough facets to his game to fall back on and still be an elite fighter.

Part of it is expectations. As I said, I only saw Chavez after hearing loads of hype, how he was not only the best Mexican, but best Latino fighter ever. I was thoroughly underwhelmed.

The first time I saw Duran, I was mesmerised.

Part of is level of competition too. I can't say I'm particularly impressed by any of the opponents he beat, including Rosario and Taylor. As I said, the Fab 4 they are not. I rewatched Chavez - Taylor today actually, and cannot believe Xplosive said Taylor would beat Pacquiao. He'd get fucked up something fierce by Pacquiao.

 

I'm kinda with Mex on the whole Chavez thing, but this made me laugh

 

I'd pick Floyd, for what it's worth, I think he's the best ever at 130. Not an easy night's work by any means though.

 

"He'd get fucked up something fierce by pacquaio"

I just can't with you people

 

Watch Chavez past his best against Camacho and how easily he completely dominates a guy who made safe stink an art form ... this is a guy doing everything in his power to avoid a fight, a guy who spent his career successfully avoiding fights and despite all of his speed, his committed reluctance, his steady retreat, he is absolutely PAINTED

 

Not even giant welterweights like Hoya and Trinidad managed to do that against an old useless Camacho

 

That Roy Jones had above average handspeed, didn't he?

 

Chavez more basic and less facets and intelligence than Golovkin???

Ohhhh FFS!

 

Without question. Golovkin has a far more clever and complex style than Chavez. Hence why Golovkin is able to outbox elite fighters age 35.

 

This is some Sly level bending of reality

 

I'm not even a huge Golovkin fan or anything but I don't see what's so absurd about that statement. Chavez will go down as greater because he had better opponents to face, but it's not really that ridiculous.

 

Please you think Calzaghe is a master boxer

 

Chavez had really good timing. That's something that can go unnoticed. His technique was really good too, so that it wasn't easy for opponents to anticipate his punches. And accuracy! There's something that can go unnoticed but is very important.

 

Damn right, but we are not talking about the Welsh Wonderkid here.

 

His punching accuracy is the best I've seen