Lorenzo Fertitta Speaks On Fighter Pay, Unions, And If Boxing Can Be Fixed.

Discussion in 'General MMA Discussion' started by Anthony, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Messages:
    24,727
    Likes Received:
    5,998
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Motherfucker
    Location:
    -49.330540, 68.950885
    <iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1sXvW6r06nA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  2. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    102,245
    Likes Received:
    7,322
    Location:
    In The Trenches With My Boy Sepp
    Home Page:
    "to fix that broken model"

    :wack:

    Kids don't know what boxing is? Do these kids have youtube??? Don't understand what boxing is?? BS. Its there on youtube if they want to see it.

    If they don't show an interest its because they prefer to watch perma-tanned half-athletes get each other in headlocks.
     
  3. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Messages:
    30,692
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yep. Further proof that kids these days have gone soft.
     
  4. Ironman

    Ironman Scrub

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rather asinine and ignorant statement there by Fertitta. Everybody and their mother knows what boxing is. It's the easiest and most basic sport in the entire world. 2 guys with gloves on, beating each other up.:lol:
    Too bad for him that he's done a poor job raising his kid. While he works all day and night on growing his empire, he neglects his kid completely and now his kid doesn't know what boxing is. Hence that means the kid will get smashed on the playground in a fight because he doesn't know how to punch. :lol:
    And they teach boxing at all MMA gyms around the world and boxing is a pivotal discipline in MMA. I'd say 70% of mma revolves around boxing. Most fights are decided on the feet. And further more, the UFC desperately wants and rewards fighters who actually punch as opposed to grappling because it makes for much more entertaining television. People want to see KOs.
    Fertitta comes across as an ignorant fool in this clip. Probably better that he stays in the background. Even Dana isn't as ignorant as him about the importance of boxing and how big a role it plays in fighting sports.
     
  5. Ironman

    Ironman Scrub

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    0
    He doesn't really believe what he says. He's just clueless. MMA is 70% boxing and 30% grappling. Look at all the fights in UFC in the past year and see how many fights were decided by boxing/punching. GSP/Shields, Okami/Silva, every JDS fight, Kongo/Barry, Fedor/Henderson, Noguira/Schaub. If you can't box, you have no chance in hell in MMA. Fertitta is a complete tool and the kids he talks to are twittering and facebook loving weaklings with no skill for fighting sports.:laugh11:
     
  6. Trplsec

    Trplsec Sleeps in a Cage

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    5
    It seems to me like the majority of what Fertitta was saying was relatively accurate.

    But he has a way of generalizing that just seems stupid. When it comes to kids knowing about boxing and being able to name current boxers, I would guess he is right when speaking about youth in the US. Aside from Mayweather, there really isn't much to get excited about. I doubt the same could be said universally as boxing still remains a popular sport elsewhere in the world. I'd guess Europeans could name more boxers than MMA fighters to use Fertitta's example.

    That being said, he is dead-on about boxing being fragmented. And it has probably become too fragmented to ever gain back lost popularity. Meanwhile there seems to be an MMA gym popping up on every corner in the US so that lack of boxing knowledge that Lorenzo mentions is likely to only grow.

    And I would guess that he is close to being dead-on about under card wages at a UFC event compared to a boxing PPV. I think we all knew that already.

    However, it was good to hear him talk about UFC pay and how some fighters are pulling down tens of millions of dollars each year before sponsorship.

    Overall I didn't find anything groundbreaking or even remotely questionable about his answers.
     
  7. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Messages:
    8,335
    Likes Received:
    67
    Thoughts as I watch the clip...

    Fuck him. If we don't know what the fighters are making on salaries, it's because they put out bogus numbers. And I doubt they put out bogus numbers. There might be one fighter who makes tens of millions and that's Brock. Who else?

    "We're paying out upwards of 8x what a ppv undercard pays out." WHAT? Only if you cherry-pick some buttfuck ppv like Holyfield vs Danell Nicholson live from Germany at 3pm on Saturday. And even then, I bet he's full of shit.

    "Guys don't want people to know what they make." Oh fuck they don't. In this type of business, you ALWAYS want to know what everyone else is making so that you can negotiate what YOU should be making.

    "The culinary union". If you google this, the culinary union is suing the UFC for anti-trust and all kinds of things that should have been done LONG ago. They are going after the monopoly that is the UFC. The UFC brought this on to them themselves. Fuck them.

    "We're completely out of the equation" with regard to our employees voting on a union. Oh fuck, I know he expects people to buy his bullshit, but come on. Do you REALLY think that a business owner doesn't have ways to put pressure on employees from forming a union? Business owners fear unions like johns fear aids.

    "[Boxing] is not what we do...it's very fragmented..." Yeah, he can't get involved with boxing because they don't permit monopolies and there is far more protection for the fighters in boxing than in the one-horse game of mma. Frankly, I wish they would try to promote boxing because they have the money, and they know how to promote, and they know how to do all kinds of the right things. They just also know how to do it easier...through cheating via monopoly and dirty tricks...and by taking advantage of the (willful) ignorance of the crowd they cater to.

    I think he is correct about kids not watching boxing and how they are into mma. It's sad, but it's not his fault. He doesn't owe anything to boxing. I would give more praise, but it's the whole loaded deck that they've had in their favor all along that pisses me off.

    Dave Farra is an excellent interviewer/tv host. He hosts mma 30 and if he was a company, I'd buy stock.
     
  8. Trplsec

    Trplsec Sleeps in a Cage

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    5
    Absolutely wrong.
     
  9. Azazel

    Azazel "Twinkle Toes" McJack

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    7,506
    Likes Received:
    794
    How so ? To my knowledge, the Muhammed Ali Act would forbid the UFC from operating as it currently does
     
  10. Trplsec

    Trplsec Sleeps in a Cage

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    5
    I'm talking about "there is far more protection for the fighters in boxing than in the one-horse game of mma".

    I may be wrong, but I don't see it that way.

    How does Kelly Pavlik, for example, have more protection as a boxer than say Clay Guida in the UFC?

    Like I said, I am open to being swayed on this, but I'd rather be Guida in terms of a "sport" providing me protection.
     
  11. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Messages:
    8,335
    Likes Received:
    67
    Free market provides the protection. It's really not close.

    Look at the salaries Kelly Pavlik was quoting when he pulled out of his most recent fight. Kelly Pavlik made millions in a few of his fights. He'd never be able to do that in a one-horse town when Zuffa owns the horse. They don't protect their fighters for shit. They rape them. And if they keep winning, they just treat them like higher-quality slaves. And when they lose 3 in a row (or so), well...welcome back to the minor leagues and the $3000 per night fights.

    The UFC fucks you on the way up, the fuck you when you get to the top, and they fuck you on the way down. The only ONLY reason the fucking gets mitigated is because of sponsorships. I suppose in some way you can credit the UFC for sponsorships being able to partially save the day for the fighters, but I'd guess the UFC also gets the lion's share of that money, too.

    We've done this before...dividing the $100,000,000 proceeds on ufc ppv's...and comparing them to a 100,000,000 boxing ppv...and it is disgraceful what the UFC gets away with.
     
  12. Trplsec

    Trplsec Sleeps in a Cage

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    5

    Yeah, we have done this and every time you or someone thinks the UFC is some how obligated to share their profits with their employees on some proportional basis. They aren't.

    The UFC doesn't GET AWAY with anything. They pay their fighters what the fighters will accept exactly as any business should do with their employees. Each fighter under contract to the UFC has the right, the ability, to walk away and do something else.

    And the slavery comment is just ridiculous. These guys basically CHOOSE to fight and they agree to fight for the amount WELL in advance of fighting. Fucking slavery? What an absolutely piss poor a analogy. Small club fighters are working their ASSES off to get into the UFC because it's the best game in town. How many slaves were working their asses off to make it on the big ship that would take them to some South Carolina cotton plantation and then begging, pleading to stay there? Damn.

    That's why I hate these discussions. You're probably one of those saps that think NFL players should hold out in the middle of a contract because they deserve more money. Poor athletes that get to play sports for a living but NOT a big enough living, right?

    But I am curious, how is the UFC fucking guys on top like Silva, GSP, or Velasquez? Or for that matter how is Zuffa fucking the 400+ fighters currently under contract all of which made at least double the US median income in 2010. And yes, for fighting....

    The bigger question is about guys on the way down that get cut. As fan of free market economics like you claim to be, what would you suggest the UFC do with fighters that no longer cut it at the highest level? Should they keep them around as not to be insensitive? Bull shit. If you can't cut it then you SHOULD NOT BE A PROFESSIONAL FIGHTER. Period.

    The UFC runs "their" sport like a business. They run it exactly like any successful Fortune 500 company would. They negotiate wages and put the best possible shows on for their consumers, the fans.

    In all honesty the biggest bull shit in this whole conversation is anyone purporting to have any clue as to the P & L of the UFC. You don't.
     
  13. TraZ

    TraZ WBC Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2003
    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    0
    Home Page:
    lets get serious here

    we can bitch and moan about UFC's business practices and salaries but when it comes down to it. It all ways on the best fighters fighting eachother and boxing has done an absolute shit job of doing it. They need to get on UFCs model of a pay per view for any new viewers to watch it. I have a bunch of friends who i have tried to get into boxing and they wont be a cent for a floyd mayweather fight when they could watch 5-8 fights of good quality guys fighting in UFC. comes down to it. UFC has a better new product thats more exciting and more accessible then boxing. My dad and I are both old school boxing fans and have enjoyed the sport for many years and we look forward to a UFC then any boxing match these days. sorry to say it but boxing needs to change its formula or it will not survive.
     
  14. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Messages:
    8,335
    Likes Received:
    67
    Boxers aren't employees. Protections have been put in place that prevent them from becoming employees and prevent anyone from running boxing as a business. Protections that haven't gone into effect in mma. And they are protections.

    As to the P&L of the UFC...please. Are you unsure that the UFC is making a lot of money?
     
  15. *Z*

    *Z* WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    14,334
    Likes Received:
    7
    And this is all that really needs to be said. What are we fans of here? Fighter salary? Or fights? All the bitching about fighter paty from fans is just ridiculous. Do you guys want MMA to become boxing? The best guys will fight once a year for nothing short of a friggin fortune? Refuse to fight other top fighters because millions of dollars is "Slave wages" to them? That is the last thing MMA needs. Boxing is not even a sport anymore, it's just a damn money grab.
     
  16. *Z*

    *Z* WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    14,334
    Likes Received:
    7
    Boxers never get screwed. They are fully protected. LMFAO!
     
  17. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Messages:
    8,335
    Likes Received:
    67
    Don't be dense. Reread what I said and figure it out.
     
  18. *Z*

    *Z* WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    14,334
    Likes Received:
    7
    I already made a real reply, you can comment on that.
     
  19. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Messages:
    8,335
    Likes Received:
    67
    Fine, your reply was stupid.

    Our Constitution gives us protections; it doesn't mean that everyone is safer or better off because of the protections. Before applying the Constitution to everyone, some slaves had it real nice back in the day, but they were not free and did not enjoy the protections that free people had. Freeing everyone didn't make everyone better off, but it did make the country better off as a whole.

    Now, if you see yourself only as a clothes merchant and only care about getting your cotton for a cheap price, then yeah you might favor slavery because it makes things better off for you and you can point to the handful of house slaves who have it so nice and ignore the grand master asshole running the show and the other slaves who live in shit conditions because the grandmaster gets you nice cotton at a nice price.

    The analogy works well enough, but when you factor in the fact that fighters are risking their lives, they have skills and training that makes them far from regular workers, and they do NOT have another place to take their skillset because the UFC keeps buying competitors...it isn't even a harsh enough analogy. I prefer and try to look at the issue with a bigger lens than just the simple "hey, i'm a fan and I like the product!!" mindset that many have.
     
  20. *Z*

    *Z* WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    14,334
    Likes Received:
    7
    lol Slavery and the constitution? You've gone full retard.
     
  21. *Z*

    *Z* WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    14,334
    Likes Received:
    7
    Well I do not, I just like to watch fights. I don't care how anyone is treated or how much they make, nobody made them sign a contact. If it's good enough for a fighter to sign it's good enough for me.
     
  22. Trplsec

    Trplsec Sleeps in a Cage

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    5
    Word brother. My concern for the fighter ends as soon as I know they are free to do something else.

    If they don't like the risk/reward of MMA in the UFC, they DO NOT HAVE to fight.

    That quells my concerns and I'm free to totally enjoy good fights between full grown men freely participating in a SPORT. They aren't gladiators forced to fight to the death.
     
  23. TLC

    TLC "Twinkle Toes" McJack

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,559
    Likes Received:
    1
    Did this guy seriously try to imply the UFC is worse than slavery?
     
  24. Trplsec

    Trplsec Sleeps in a Cage

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    5
    Dude, bury the fucking melodrama. A firefighter routinely risk his life. A cop routinely risk his life. Hell, an electrician routinely risk his life. An MMA fighter does not. He plays a sport for a living, which based on it's history, is safer in terms of death and permanent injury than boxing, football, auto racing, bull riding, etc.

    And no matter how you spin it, the slavery analogy is asinine. No matter how good a slave 'had it', he could not arbitrarily choose to stop picking cotton and become a fry cook at McDonalds. UFC fighters and all athletes DO have that choice.

    You indicate that an MMA fighter's skill set makes him FAR from an average worker. Apparently he is also dumber because most "average" workers I know are smart enough to understand what they are going to earn and whether THAT pay scale is worth the work they have to do. Why do you feel MMA fighters don't have the obligation to make that same choice for themselves? Do they deserve special treatment because they play a game for a living?
     
  25. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Messages:
    8,335
    Likes Received:
    67
    The point of an analogy isn't that it is exactly spot on, it's to help people understand something that they are too dense to figure out on their own. Some of you aren't too dense to understand what is going on, you just don't care. So be it. That's why the us is a republic and not a democracy.

    Jeepers fuck, you really think you are pointing out something worthwhile by stating that slaves and mma fighters aren't alike because mma fighters can be fry cooks?

    No other athletes (that I can think of) are fucked in the way that mma fighters are fucked. MMA fighters do not have a fair playing field and they do not have the tools (unions, multiple teams, government regulations) to prevent being taken advantage of that other athletes do. But you don't care: "I only care about the fights." It's a view I would be ashamed to have. Some aren't, though. Oh well.

    And if I am being melodramatic (and maybe i was) saying that people who get punched in the head by 4 oz gloves are risking their lives, then you are being worse in the other direction to consider what they do to be 'playing a game for a living.'
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
  26. TLC

    TLC "Twinkle Toes" McJack

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,559
    Likes Received:
    1
    mike just having one of his moments again. Don't take it too seriously.
     
  27. *Z*

    *Z* WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    14,334
    Likes Received:
    7
    wow.
     

Share This Page