Who’s your favourite of these fighters ?

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by Destruction and Mayhem, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    He did? Been awhile since I've seen that fight, but I remember Joe beating the shit outta Sheika.
     
  2. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    not Joe, Lacy
     
  3. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    haha JUST rewatched Sheika Calzaghe stoppage. Man what a disgrace. It was starting to get into the kind of fight Sheika wanted, and sheika just landed some good punches (no, he wouldn't have won) and the ref stopped it for nothing lol
     
  4. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    Yeah, Lacy got past Sheika by the skin of his teeth. My recollection of that fight was Sheika was winning for awhile, but faded down the stretch which allowed Lacy to win.

    But that should have been our red flag that Lacy was no good.
     
  5. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    Sheika was a bum, but I'll always remember his two fights with Scott Pemberton being highly exciting.
     
  6. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    Calzaghe should have maybe 16 KO victories on his record tops
     
  7. REEDsART

    REEDsART MATCHMAKER

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    Who's Going Overboard???...

    Just Because YOU Specialize in Being Perpetually UNIMPRESSED Doesn't Mean Jeff Lacy WASN'T Highly Thought of, Feared and FAVORED to Beat Calzaghe w/Out Much Fuss...

    Did Michael Grant Ever WIN a World Title???...Did Michael Grant Ever DEFEND a World Title???...Was Michael Grant FAVORED to Beat Lennox Lewis???...

    Not a Good Comparison @ All...






    REED:cool:
     
  8. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Who cares that he didn't win a world title. They've been meaningless for the last 25 years or more. Grant beat a better fighter in Golota than Lacy ever did (though Reid is arguable).

    While Grant wasn't favored by the bookies (or maybe he was), a KO magazine review had most experts picking him to beat LL. It's a perfectly valid comparaison, and shows that sometimes, hindsight is the best way to judge a fighter. Especially when a fighter is overhyped because of his look/style (as Grant and Lacy were).

    Lacy was not more than decent (as shown by him needing a friendly judges against Sheika), and while it's a decent victory for JC, it's not that great of a victory either
     
  9. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    No.

    Grant and Lacy aren't analogous in any way shape or form.
     
  10. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Of course they aren't for you, cause you have a crush on JC. For any neutral observers, both are similar hype jobs.
     
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  11. REEDsART

    REEDsART MATCHMAKER

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    None of What You’re Saying Touches CONTEXT and PERSPECTIVE, Which Can NEVER Be Discounted...Again, if NOT For Context and Perspective, Boxrec Would Be a Valuable Tool for SETTLING Debates...But it ISNT...

    Despite Calzaghe’s 9 Preceding Years as Champion, Lacy was Considered THE MAN @ ‘68...He was Faaaaaaar and Away Regarded as THE Most Dangerous Foe Calzaghe Had Ever Faced to That Point..

    You’re Trying to Portray Lacy as Some Non-Descript Scrub Who Lucked Up on and Quickly Relinquished a World Title When That WASNT the Case @ All. Again, Lacy was the Straw Stirring the Super Middleweight Drink @ That Point in Time...

    Did You REALLY Note the Shieka Fight In Diminishing Lacy and Use the Golota Fight in an Attempt to Portray Grant in a More FAVORABLE Light:D???

    Surely You JEST...

    PERSPECTIVE and CONTEXT...Without it, You Could Minimize Ali-Liston, Ali-Foreman or Just About Any Other Fight...

    No Wonder You’re Perpetually UNIMPRESSED, You Lend NO Credence to the MOMENT Certain Fights Took Place, Choosing Instead to Rely on After the Fact, Hindsight Bullshit....







    REED:cool:
     
  12. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    Yeah. Do not see the logic in crediting Calzaghe with beating the guy we "thought" Lacy was, as opposed to the guy he actually turned out to be.
     
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  13. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Sure context is important, but Hindsight is also an important tool to judge a fighter worth. It's obvious now that Lacy and Grant were two very ordinary fighters, no matter how they were regarded at the time. While they both had decent wins, they were wholly underserving of the hypes they were getting. Boxing history is littered with hype jobs, unmasking one is not that big of an achievement. That JC fans always goes back to the Lacy fight simply shows how shallow is resume is.

    And your little scenario about being perpetually unimpressed is lame dude. You need some new material
     
  14. REEDsART

    REEDsART MATCHMAKER

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    The CHIEF Complaint of Calzaghe was that he DIDNT Take Risks...

    Literally, Lacy Was Considered THE Most Dangerous Super Middle He Could’ve Faced @ the Time...

    It’s Hindsight Bullshit and Waaaaaay Tooooooo CONVENIENT to Latch Onto Lacy Sucking After the Fact, vs. Giving PROPER Credit to Calzaghe...

    But You’ve Done this Type of Shit for YEARS Though. Confidently Picking Julio Gonzalez to BEAT Roy Jones, then Claiming it was a “Facetious” Prediction, vs. Giving PROPER Credit to the Fighter that Proved You WRONG...

    It’s the Tactic of a FAUX-Hard to Please, Sorry Ass Boxing Fan...






    REED:cool:
     
  15. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    Lacy was crap ... it's a good performance but not a substantial win at all
     
  16. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    From a risk-taking perspective I agree he deserves credit since Lacy was perceived as a legitimate threat when Calzaghe agreed to face him. I'm just saying it is not an impressive win given what we now know about Lacy's limitations. He deserves credit for taking the fight. But not much for winning it.
     
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  17. meetthefeebles

    meetthefeebles Drunken Geordie Bastard

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    This argument is never going to be resolved on this board. The same positions are reiterated by the same posters every time.

    Lacy was a very good win for Calzaghe. Joe was a heavy betting underdog going in and I recall posting a link in a similar argument some way back which showed that pretty about 90% of boxing writers had Lacy to win, and mostly to win by spectacular KO. Joe not only beat him, but he absolutely schooled him - it was about as 1-sided a fight between unbeaten champions you could possibly conceive.

    Does hindsight show that Lacy was overrated going in? Sure. Does it show that Calzaghe was underrated going in? Sure. But none of that changes the fact that Lacy was considered the best at 168 when Werren finally got round to cashing Joe out (Werren was reportedly crying and shaking like a shitting dog in the dressing room pre-fight) and Joe absolutely dismantled him. It was a very good win.

    MTF
     
  18. meetthefeebles

    meetthefeebles Drunken Geordie Bastard

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    He was an unbeaten titlist who had demolished almost everyone he had faced up to that point. Hindsight shows that he wasn't exactly a stellar world champion, but he was what he was and Calzaghe did what great fighters do to lesser champions. He beat the absolute shit out of him.

    MTF
     
  19. Jeffy

    Jeffy Undisputed Champion

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    One of those decrepit idols had one of the best fights of his career immediately after the Calzhage fight.
     
  20. meetthefeebles

    meetthefeebles Drunken Geordie Bastard

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    What we mostly know about 'Lacy's limitations' came from Calzaghe utterly exposing them. Might be an idea to crdit the guy who gave us this more accurate insight?

    MTF
     
  21. meetthefeebles

    meetthefeebles Drunken Geordie Bastard

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    That gets forgotten about by several round these parts. In his ten fights after the Calzaghe fight (where he was 'decrepit'), Hopkins lost once, including a top-five career highlight win over the unbeaten, lineal MW champion. His two fights immediately prior to Calzaghe were wins against Tarver and Winky Wright. He was the Ring Magazine 175 champ when Calzaghe beat him.

    'Decrepit'.

    MTF
     
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  22. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    Many fighters degenerate quickly after a severe beating. Vargas was never the same after the Tito fight for example.
     
  23. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Come on. Hopkins was lucky to get a draw against Jean Pascal in their first fight, since a KD wasn't scored. It was obvious at this point of his career that he had a lot of trouble with athletic guys. It was a good win for JC (even though most media at ringside had Bhop winning) but not good enough for me to consider him levels above guys like Thurman and Canelo
     
  24. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    No. It also came from him needing frinedly judges to get past ordinary Sheika
     
  25. meetthefeebles

    meetthefeebles Drunken Geordie Bastard

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    Calzaghe did not beat a prime Hopkins, certainly. But it was another very good win over an ATG in the midst of a ridiculous run of form for a man of that age.

    Also, and let there be no doubt about this, Calzaghe made plenty of attempts to make the Hopkins fight in both their respective primes. His reps went to the US, signed pre-contracts, everything. Hopkins pulled the plug on that one, though he routinely gets a pass for it because 'he made more money fighting other guys'. This is published fact - I've reprinted the exact passage of text on this very forum in the past.

    Did Calzaghe duck Glen Johnson? Absolutely. Did he milk his title for years fighting stiffs? Absolutely. Did he make up for it by finding his balls at the end of his career and registering several very good wins? Nope. Does that affect the way he should be judged historically? Definitely. But he did beat Hopkins, and Hopkins prevented the fight happening much earlier when the issue between them could have been put beyond all doubt.

    MTF
     
  26. meetthefeebles

    meetthefeebles Drunken Geordie Bastard

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    Your opinion on Sheika ignores the fact that, although he wasn't very good, he was a horrible, dirty, spoiling bastard who very few people looked good against.

    MTF
     
  27. cdogg187

    cdogg187 GLADYS

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    lol demolished? Nonsense
     
  28. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Numerous people looked great against Sheika. JC, Lucas and Pemberton did. And Glen Johnson was looking like magic before he got floored by him and stopped trying (he had the journeyman mentality at this point in his carreer)
     
  29. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    The funny thing is that I mostly agree with everything you wrote (bar him winning against BHOP, I think BHOP was the clear winner, but that's beside the point, it was a close fight). The only thing I vehemently protest is the notion that JC was much better than Canelo and Thurman. These guys tested themselves numerous times against the elites of the sport, and handled themselves well most time than not.
     
  30. meetthefeebles

    meetthefeebles Drunken Geordie Bastard

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    Pemberton needed two goes to beat him decisively (I think?) Lucas beat him well but I wouldn't say he looked 'great'. Johnson lost to him.

    MTF
     

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