Do You Want The Klitschkos To Lose Their Next Fights?

The thing about the HVY divison back then, though was that even with Foreman holding the lineal championship ransom, there were still a lot of interesting fights to be made.

That's the issue now - nothing at all is going on. Everyone is either holding out for the Kllitschkos, or avoiding them altogether. In either scenario, few if any interesting fights are happening in the interim.

Adamek is staying busy, but against bottom feeders (Arreola is the closest he's come to taking a risk @ HVY).

Povetkin was handcuffed to career-damaging advice by Teddy Atlas.

Haye's deal is well-documented by now.

Beyond that, left with a bunch of nothing.

That's the problem with today's division. When the Klits aren't in eye-catching fights, the divisions as a whole suffers because nothing else is going on.

 

Yes I wonna see them lose. I wonna see if someone else can step up and claim what they have accomplished. I'll Holla 5000

 

You see this is another thing- we have no definitions section here.

Interesting fights? Interesting....for whom?

Chagaev vs Wlad did 65,000 in Germany. And we can assume that Haye vs Wlad would have done likewise in the same Arena, as that was the original headliner.

There were interesting fights to be made in the years following Tysons defeat by Douglas. The most interesting one of them all, Bowe vs Lewis, never happened. The 2nd most interesting one, Tyson vs Lewis, happened 8 years after it should have, and the 3rd most interesting one of them happened to end in a draw that did nothing for the division. Soon after they eventually fought to a disputed decision {how fitting- where was the KO we all demand?} the belts were split up again.

From 1990-2002 there was a lot of shit- a lot of Joe Hipps and Tommy Morrisons and Bruce Seldons and the like. We had Pat Putnam in Sports Illustrated bemoaning Holyfields belaboured 12 round slogs with an ancient Larry Holmes and an ancient George Foreman. How did Tommy Morrison do a better job with Foreman than Moorer? And who told Axel Schulz he could fight?

I do see your point on the need for an undisputed champ but the HW division has had one of them for 8 out of the last 26 years, if I conjure accurately.

The need is no more pressing today than it ever was.

 

You're correct. It isnt the first time champs haven't faced eachother. You know what that is? Bad for boxing. That is my point.

 

Vitali couldn't take the head off a tin of soup. He's always been the poorer brother, & nothing has changed today.

 

You have to be on the wind up mate. You have to be.

 

Not even near to it. Vitali is obscenely over-rated.

 

His chin, his unorthodoxy, his toughness and his right hand are all there man.

 

In all their hideous amateurism, awaiting just one world-class fighter to expose them (again). I notice the term, "unorthodoxy," constantly thrown around his name. It is simply a misnomer here for improper technique, & if anyone is so inclined to mention names like Pernell Whitaker, or Muhammad Ali, or Roy Jones, they do so ignoring Klitschko's irrefutable athletic short-comings next to such fighters. The guy can't even throw a punch properly --- don't try to sell me on the idea he is better than his brother. Tougher, yes. That's it. His right hand? He went to town looking for a KO on a 300-year-old Shannon Briggs & couldn't make it happen. Watched it live myself --- I'll never forget it. Not that I didn't know Klitschko lacked a real punch already, but I definitely would've baulked at someone had they suggested once upon a time Klitschko would batter Briggs' corpse all about the ring in 2010, yet still fail to score even so much as a stoppage. No way he is that ineffectual, both as a puncher & a finisher, in spite of his flaws --- yet here it is. Final nail in the coffin of any argument regarding his punch, as I see it.

Now, his chin & heart, I will give you, & give you happily. I cringe at those ignorant barbs like, "Quitschko," etc. in regards to the Byrd fight. Willie Pep does it & it's OK, but Vitali Klitschko isn't permitted to with a verified torn rotator cuff!? I know without doubt anyone calling him a quitter doesn't know the first thing about such an injury. Klitschko is a tough, hardy fighter with an excellent chin. Ironic that these fine qualities are the whole reason he is mistaken for being better than his younger brother (by many of the dilettantes out there --- I know you have better reasons to contend the point as a keener observer, Irish). He gives an absolute tonne of ground to his younger brother elsewhere, no question in my book.

Some of the above does sound a little harsh --- I don't think Klitschko is anything approaching a poor fighter. He gave a very good account of himself against a very good opponent (Lewis)...but that's the best this man is capable of. He'd never beat a truly great rival with those flaws, & all the size in the world wouldn't change that.

 

What's right is what works. Arm punching helps Vitali
A) maintain the distance with his feet which is his defence - if he comitted to every shot with his whole body he'd sacrifice his range and get hit more.
B) throw at a higher output to help maintain that distance - if he threw every shot correctly he'd get tired more easily and never be able to throw 50, 60, 70 shots a round from the range he does which makes him so effective.
C) throw all those weird, improvised, awkward shots that he can throw & land because of his huge height advantage, which his opponents never see.

All those technical failing contribute to his probably being the most effective fighter in the sport terms of his ratio of punches landed to punches shipped, this side of Floyd Mayweather. Vitali is an innovator, IMO - not to be mistaken for somebody who does what he does because he doesn't know any better. He's a very good champion.

 

NO.

I like dominant Heavyweight champs.

 

I don't want either of them to lose just for the sake of it. I want Vitali to win. But Since Wlad is fighting a an Englishman, I want Chisora to win. If it were Vitali v Solis and Wlad vs. Adamek, I would vote no for this poll.

 

Thats more like it. I have to admit that if Kevin McBride was fighting the Klitschkos I would be hoping they kicked fuck out of his fat, slow, part-time arse.

The truth of the matter is that a large part of my Klitschko fan-boy nature, if one could call it that, is derived from the fairly acidic treatment they both got from the press in the early part of their careers and which they continue to get today.

I reckon that a lot of people out there who call themselves boxing fans would love, absolutely love, to see Kevin Johnson, Arreola, Solis, Haye, square off in a tournament to decide the next HW champion. As long as America ended up with the marbles and as long as American financial interests- through the networks, promoters and managers, were represented, everybody would be happy.

With the Klitschkos, you have what Max Kellerman called the "two headed beast at the top of the division"- not even Jason and the Argonauts were asked to chop off two heads. American TV, promotional and managerial interests take a back seat. Sure, Finkel gets a few quid but its not like he shares that with anyone.

In the meantime, the Klitschkos don't need HBO. How many fighters don't need HBO? A lot of people are being left out in the cold here and so this is how it starts....articles about how the division is its weakest ever, about how Wladimir insulted Madison Square Garden, about how Richie Melito did this, etc.

Its a crock of shit. Hoping that the two best fighters lose so you can run home with some flawed marbles and have a great old time in your own back yard is not what real boxing fans do.

 

I know you believe that you have discovered something hypocritical here, but you are talking out of your arse

go into Mythical Matchups and provide ONE INSTANCE where I ever picked Joe Louis or Frazier or half a dozen other 210 pound guys to beat Vitali

go ahead, you wont find a fucking thing

this is why you and Kauki piss me off so much, you read one person's opinion and then automatically lump OTHER PEOPLE'S FAULTY OPINIONS onto that person

contrary to your head-up-own-ass assumptions, I pretty much think its impossible for a 5'11 210 Joe Frazier to beat Vitali Klitschko, not matter how much "greater" he is... I wouldnt pick nicolino Locche to beat Jermain Taylor either

dont make assumptions, fucker

 

:scared:

 

You realize he's just an instigator, don't you?

Have you ever read a post of Irish's where you actually thought to yourself, wow, that's a really great point, and well thought out too?

Instead of always responding to him, try the Hanzy Killer once in a while...learn to have fun with the jackasses around here.

:Hanzkiller:

 

normally, I wouldnt respond to something like this, mitchell, but Irish posts so goddamn much and does so in elaborate bursts of wordiness, that before I would even know what the hell happened I would be labeled as some sort of hypocrite and it would simply become fact despite there being no evidence to support it. I'm not having my intellectual objectiveness slandered because someone decides to presistently repeat a lie. I'm nipping it in the bud before it can get there

 

yeah, you dont have a position here. you took a foolish stab in the dark

 

It's not, because nobody else takes him seriously.

Join us, cdogg.

 

What slandering did I do?

Please point out the thread or the post where I said you said something you in fact did not say?

As for Mitchell, the man has been so repeatedly owned and sold and re-owned, I wonder if we couldn't throw him into your melting pot and see if he fathers any good athletes.

 

Yep. You and steve_dave...Kunta Kinte was less owned than you both are. Basketball man. But for Basketball Vitali would be nuttin!!!opcorn:

 

You should watch Briggs-Liakhovich again...it gets better after multiple viewings.

 

Nice Try.

In the Mythical Matchups section where you lifted that quote from me, you typed in huge letters "OH NO YOU DIDNT" ... the implication was CLEAR... you, without ever bothering to check first, made the assumption that I MUST have picked Vitali to lose to Louis, Charles, Frazier, etc. and a bunch of other smaller, greater black fighters... you then decided that this in some way meant that my position on Hamed/Gatti was hypocritical because I was pointing out Hamed wouldnt be able to overcome the size advantage... you were sure you had a big score, you were wrong... you foolishly assumed I had a Kellerman-esque outlook on things, because you ASSUME always that every American observer thnks along those lines... an imbecile's assumption, as dumb as assuming that every single British person thinks Joe Calzaghe is god

 

Nope. Nope. Not even close.

I was merely surprised to see that somebody else had been making the very general point that I had been all along- that it is possible to have a better resume and lose, lose as a matter of near definite certainty, to a man with an inferior resume.

Hagler vs Foster was as nailed-on an example of what I had been talking about. A MW {Hagler} with a near pristine record, who could not hope to win a fight against a Light-Heavyweight one of whose best wins was over a former MW. The logic, to me, was clear- the size and unorthodoxy of Foster, despite a mere 15lb weight difference, would be too much for the more accomplished Hagler.

I rejoiced in what you said not because of how it made you look, but because of how it made others look.

And coming from you, I knew I had come across sentiment from a guy who was not, per se, unreliable.

 

Stop that. It sounds like you are complimenting me. I find it infuriating

I'm supposed to be mad at you right now

 

You mentioned the Hagler-Foster example and I never took it one yard further than that. I merely posited that the point could be made- that resumes don't beat fighters- other fighters do.