Ali withstood some of the biggest punchers of all time, taking shots from Frazier, Liston, Foreman, Shavers and more. None of these guys could take him out, even Shavers, who most likely is one of the main reasons for Ali's brain damage, that fight alone had to take a good 15 years off Ali's life. That said, if these guys couldn't do it, Foreman and Shavers fighting him when he wasn't nearly as mobile...could anyone? Could Tyson, or Louis? Maybe Lummox?
I am a firm believer than in life (& Boxing) absolutes are a very, very rare thing indeed. No matter how great the greatest athlete in any endeavour is, there will always be someone come along to take his place, no matter how perfect the fighter across the board, they can be beaten...& no matter how resourceful, courageous, or durable the fighter, they can be knocked out. I will say this --- if you could line-up all the great HW Champions, I would nominate Ali as altogether the most difficult prospect to beat inside the distance. His sterling career bears this out, but it's not to say he can't be taken down. For one thing, I have expressed doubts in the past the prime Ali is as mentally & physically toughened as the post-prime Ali. People talk all the time about what a fighter Foreman would be if you could combine his first & second interations into one amalgam, but I think this is done (sub-consciously) with Ali too often. There were more mistakes, more ego, & more panic in a young Ali's game than the one who came back (ego may've been the greatest weapon one of his rivals could utilise to KO him), but even so, a fighter like Ali could really only be taken out by one of these two, IMO... Joe Frazier - This would be, of course, a wear-down, drag-out attrition stoppage. Frazier had the right blend of lungs, power, style & punching power to enforce the TKO. Joe Louis - Louis has a better shot than Frazier for an out-right, 10-count KO, & a better chance for an early KO (or TKO), or one which comes suddenly, at any given moment throughout the fight. I still would see this as a wear-down type of defeat as well, though. Louis applied different pressure than Frazier not as effective to Ali's style specifically, but he was in too many ways a superior fighter to Frazier to be ignored. There are other, smaller threats. I know this will be unpopular, but I could never complete discount the chances (though remote) of Liston & Foreman catching Ali early. It happens in Boxing, & even Ali is not immune --- though they would have to be the recipient of more luck, & less design, than either Frazier or Louis. Tyson had a lot more speed than those two men, & he'd be in with a small shot as well (he gives up a lot of height & range Liston & Foreman enjoy, as countenance, & he didn't have the jab they did to disrupt Ali). Come to think of it, though this will surprise some, Dempsey would probably have the next best shot outside of Frazier & Louis. He had a lot of good qualities to threaten Ali with, & unlike Liston & Foreman (& to some extent, Tyson as well), Dempsey had the lungs to last long into any fight & still retain his punch. His offense out of the crouch (ala Frazier) was excellent, & he was a more explosive & damaging puncher than Frazier. You have other powerful, imposing HW's, like Jeffries, Marciano, Lewis, & Bowe, but I don't think these men have it in the end.
I think history decides that some guys should just get the benefit of the doubt because they have proven things as much as they can possibly be proven in a sport as random as boxing I would never pick anyone to knock out Muhammad Ali, not any human anyway maybe if Kodiak bears boxed... some guys I think proved as much as possible that they dont get KOd... Ali, Hagler, LaPorte, guys like that... they might lose (or in LaPorte's case, likely lose against the best) but they proved that stopping them was nearly impossible other guys like Chuvalo, LaMotta, you could certainly venture a cuts stoppage, but I'd be hard pressed to pick anyone to floor them I think if you have 50,60,70 fights against top-flight opposition and nobody comes close to knocking you out, thats big and has to be considered heavily when weighing these fighters mythical chances
Of course it's weighed heavily for Ali --- otherwise this thread wouldn't even exist in the first place. I don't subscribe to any man being un-KOable, though. Not even Ali.
I think the fact that no one did it or even really approached doing it (the cooper fight is easily the most over-dramatised, exaggerated knockdown in history) means that picking someone arbitrarily to do it is a bit presumptious... three of the most powerful hitters in history (Liston, Foreman, Shavers) didnt come anywhere near doing it... flooring Ali and knocking him out were vastly different things... and in the latter half of his career, flooring him took an insane level of punishment (how many flush Frazier hooks smashed against Ali's jaw before he was actually dropped in that first fight? and even then, he's up before the count hits 2) ... Ernie Shavers was very limited but I cant think of anyone who hit harder with just a straight ahead right hand bomb... he landed dozens of such shots on Ali, could not put him down, could not get anywhere near hurting him enough to go for any kind of a finish... if thats not proven, then no one is Liston or Foreman woulkd never catch Ali early, neither of them even approached doing that, and even if they did, there is no evidence to suggest that they could have finished him off... there is however AMPLE evidence to prove otherwise, that the man would survive and very likely WIN
I never picked anyone to stop Ali, though --- I picked the men I consider to have the best chance at doing it. Shavers is supremely over-rated. Supremely. To be fair, though, that's balanced somewhat by Ali being drastically over-the-hill.
I suppose there is a cliche chance that any fighter could be stopped, but based on Ali's career, I don't see it happening.
Ali was too big, strong and fast for any of the heavyweights before him to have a real chance. Joe Louis and Marciano fought in what...the 180's? Ali could be KO'd but it would take one of today's huge heavyweights to do so.
I disagree about today's huge Heavyweights part. I think Ali would toy with these guys. I don't think Louis or Marciano is the answer either, as much as I respect them, especially Louis who was over 200 lbs. for most of his career, and probably would comfortably fight at 220-230 in today's fight game. As much as I hate to say it, I think a young Tyson has the best shot of working his way in and getting to Ali if he got too careless, much like Frazier did in '71. The rub is that Tyson would have to do it early, when Ali was at his best defensively, because he wouldn't have the stamina of a Joe Frazier, to do it late.
I think everything is possible. One freak shot that lands perfectly on the point of the chin and even guys like Ali or Hagler could be out. It is very unlikely of course but it could happen, for example against Tyson, that Ali trips or has a minor lapse of concentration and for that reason Tyson catches him with a perfect shot and, especially if the ropes were near, he could follow up with a combo. I don't know if even Ali could survive that
I would probably give Tyson the best chance. Lesser, slower fighters have hurt Ali and put him on his ass. They weren't as great as a prime Iron Mike was at finishing though. It would have to be earlyish though. Anything past the 6th round and Ali would have known by that point everything he'd need to take over the fight. Lennox probably has the better chance of actully beating Ali, but not knocking him out imo. I think if Lewis was winning it would be because of his height and length of jab. He'd probably be content to preserve his lead rather than going for the knockout.
Shavers isn't overrated, I dont think anyone thinks of him as a really good fighter but there's nothing overrated about his power... I have yet to see anyone who hit harder with one shot than Shavers did with the right hand... he landed dozens of them on Ali, a basically shot Ali, and could not put him down, never mind stop him
No Fighter could knock out the fully developed but still physical prime (Not necessarily skills prime after the layoff) Ali of '65-'74.
