Ya but GSP never proved anything beyond 170 and Hendo is a true 205'er don't you think the size could be too much ?
I never thought about it, but i would think GSP is in a different class than Hendo, and if need be, he would gain the weight properly.
Man, you guys really discount a prime Dan Henderson. In his prime, Henderson destroys GSP at 185. Freaking Matt Serra stopped GSP and Henderson wouldn't at 185? Please. The prime Henderson isn't the same one that was taken down at will by Shields. Dan Henderson would have a beast for GSP to try and get down at 185. Personally I don't think it's a contest. Too much size and too much power for Henderson.
Prime henderson is not even close to the level of prime GSP at his current weight. Not even in the same planet. Since we dont know what 185, is for GSP, I assume he would be good at that weight. And if i assume that, i would naturally assume he beats henderson.
Well there are a couple of things that you don't have to assume. First, Henderson would be the naturally bigger man without question. Second, Henderson would be the hardest punchers GSP has ever faced, also without question. And you say a prime Henderson 'is no even close to the level of prime GSP'... In what aspect? Dan was certainly a better striker. And at 185, you have know idea who would be the better wrestler. This isn't a P4P matchup in which GSP is easily the better fighter. We are talking about GSP at 185 versus one of the hardest punchers and best wrestler ever at that weight. Henderson is a guy that, while in Pride, traded with Rua, Wanderlai, Yvel, Nakumura, Belfort, etc and never budged. You have no idea if GSP's takedown prowess would follow him to 185. His advantage at 170 is that he is physically stronger than his opponents. We have no way of knowing what happens to that at 185. But we do know, without question, that Henderson can bang, take big shots, and wrestle his ass off at MW. Personally I don't think it's even a debate.
Not against LHW and MW... But GSP is neither of those. And I said, the biggest question would be whether GSP's great wrestling at 170 makes the move up to 185 with him. I know you will contend that the weight doesn't make a difference because you don't want any excuses when Silva beats him. But there is a huge difference between dominating 170 pound fighters with wrestling and doing the same 15 pounds heavier. And Henderson has never had the best takedown defense, but was also no slouch in his prime. There are a bunch of BJJ black belts on Hendo's resume that ended up losing because the fights stayed upright too long.
No shit. But how many 185 pounders has GSP proven his takedowns against in the octagon? Zero.. So no matter how you slice it, it's an unproven factor at 185. Period.
Weight's just not that big of a deal IMO. You act as if Henderson hasn't been taken down repeatedly by WWs before. One, with significantly worse TDs than GSP himself.
The smaller guys are alot harder to wrestler than the bigger guys. Especially when BJJ in concerned. GSP is very mobile on the ground, and Henderson wouldnt be able to keep him down. And as for striking, the jab that GSP as incorporating, would give hendo fits. Henderson is a great fighter, no doubt, but GSP would be too much. And the weight is the least of the issues between the two.
Godfather, I am starting to wonder how much you've actually done in the gym. J/K Anyone who would size isn't that big a deal has never been on the mat with someone that naturally out weighed them by 20-25 pounds. Again, I will never claim to be an expert in ANY martial art. But drawing on my limited wrestling and BJJ time on the mat, being out weighed is a bitch. In boxing it might not be AS big a deal because you can stay away. In wrestling, not so much. It's not a coincidence that wrestlers perfected the art of cutting weight. It ain't because they like to be dehydrated. But I'll leave it at that. I mean, let's do away with weight classes then.
Again, the differences in class is huge. Henderson isnt keeping a prime GSP down. You can watch prime Hendo, and he NEVER moved like GSP. He was never fluid like GSP. The Little amount of weight advantage he would have, and it is little, would be nullified. I can guarantee you that GSP rolls with 205 pounds on a regular basis. He has admitted this. When you are training for a fight, you want to train with bigger guys as much as smaller ones. Smaller for Speed, bigger for Power. Hendo is a lot slower than GSP His wrestling isnt as good as GSP's bjj His striking is good, but can be nullified with speed His head movement leaves much to be desired. GSP is just much better all around fighter. And im not even a huge GSP fan. I like hendo actually more. But we have to be real. Hendo wont go down as one of the greatest of all time. And i want to say this is all assumptions as we really dont know. I will have to see him fight silva at the catchweight to see how he handles the higher weight. But i cannot imagine anyone as diciplined as GSP not being able to go up in weight and be successful.
not sure about gsp and hendo, but one thing's clear about jake shields. he cut weight to make welterweight and it showed against kampmann. his stamina wasn't there and he did not look as strong. shields might as well move back up to middle once gsp beats him.
To be honest, I had no idea Henderson ever fought at 170 pounds. Who are the guys he fought during his prime at 170 that took him down easily. And are you saying weight makes no difference in wrestling in MMA? Just curious.
He got completely outwrestled by Jake Shields. Weight is important but not that much that its a fight decider. Maybe if the two are even its a pretty solid wildcard. But I rarely see fights where I guy wins on size alone.
Yeah, but that was not in Henderson's prime nor was it at 170 pounds. So I'll continue to wait for you to give me the long list of Welterweights that easily took down a prime Henderson.
So apparently Henderson's TDD has deteriorated? :: Jesus, dude you make a ton of excuses. The dude just doesn't have good TDD, never has. It's slightly above average at best.
So you're NOT going to list all the 170 pounders that easily took Henderson down in his prime? Or will you just admit you talked out of your ass as usual?
I dont know what TLC is talking about with regards to WW taking Hendo down, But what i do know is that GSP is not an average fighter. He is a once in a life time fighter. I know he trains with 205 pounders at Jackson's gym, and i know that his BJJ & Wrestling surpass Henderson's with regards to his MMA career. Hendersons wrestling has dminished in this sport since he began. While, GSP's wrestling and BJJ has improved ten fold. One could even ask if GSP has even hit his prime yet.
While TLC is all over the place with his posts, he is making some valid points. Hendo's TDD was never that good.
I honestly don't disagree with any of this. And I hope you will admit that Henderson wasn't near the same fighter against Shields as he was in his prime. All I'm saying is that Henderson in his prime at 185 isn't a cake walk for anyone, ever. Naturally he won't beat everyone, but he also wouldn't be an easy out either.
Hendo was no where near his prime against shields and he would definately not be cake walk. I just think GSP wins. It wasnt a cake walk for shields either and it hendo was past it.
Shields is a WW. Period. Blown up at 185. GSP is bigger than Shields and a better wrestler. The idea that somehow GSP will suck just because he cuts a little less weight and adds a little more mass is hilarious.
I don't disagree with that. But I do disagree with the comment that Henderson has been easily taken down by WW's. Honestly, list the small guys that Henderson fought that easily took him down in, let's say, his Pride days. I guess Arona would be an example of a guy that had some success taking Henderson down. But they both took each other down and Arona was far from small. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. I really want to know the small guys that handled Henderson. Again, don't misconstrue this as me saying Henderson had great take down defense or that he could stop GSP's shots. I just honestly want to know the little guys in Pride that took Henderson down and controlled him.
