good fight here... I think it depends on how long we are talking... if its 12, Leonard might have enough money in the bank to win the decision... in 15, I think Fullmer can make up the difference... either way its a close fight, Leonard's speed and grace versus Fullmer's awkward, rugged effectiveness
Interesting, & well done to Joe for infusing this section of the board with lots of new fat to chew! First of all, let me state my firmly-held opinion that if this is a 15-round fight, Fullmer wins --- now if's, how's or but's. He's simply too relentless & too brutal. Robinson had trouble with Fullmer for two specific reasons, as I see it viewing the tape... 1. Most of Robinson's considerable & vast offense had limited impact against Fullmer's iron whiskers (one obvious moment excepted) 2. Robinson had a career-long difficulty with stronger, imposing fighters --- moreso than a fighter of his talents would be expected to. I don't believe Leonard has the lungs for a 15-rounder at Fullmer's clip, & I know he isn't even near to having the offense to discourage Fullmer's charges. Fullmer was absolutely no less durable or committed than Hagler, & when Leonard saw he lacked the punch to bend Hagler's inner-drive, he resorted (in part) to foul tactics to get his breathing space. I'm not ruling out the effectiveness of that, no Sir, but I have at least some doubts Fullmer will be as head-fucked as Hagler was. There was too much history out of the ring for Leonard's image not to have weighed on Hagler. At the same time, Fullmer was unshakeable in this area. His only regard for the almighty Robinson was to utter his contempt for the man at every turn, & he showed not one jot of fear in marching directly into the eye of Carmen Basilio's formidable storm. Looking at this fight, I want to say Fullmer from the outset --- he's bigger & stronger & more imposing at both short & mid-range, but more significantly, he knows how to apply pressure as well as anyone in the business. Still, how can you count a man like Leonard out? Concessions be damned, what he pulled off in decisioning Hagler was a modern-day Boxing marvel. Even as a rusted MW, he has speed of hand & foot over the not-especially-swift Fullmer, & he knows how to combine surviving pressure with stealing rounds & parlay that into a little edge on the scorecards which just crept up on guys. I think this could be a real close thing over twelve rounds, but I would just have to side with Fullmer in the end. I think he'd get the hardest part of a very hard job --- cornering Leonard --- down-pat in the early-going & if Fullmer has you at his range early, you are in for a brutally, brutally long evening. Leonard still would have a decent chance over twelve, though. You rarely see a fighter so resourceful & so gifted, with that high a skill-level to boot. Over fifteen, there can only be Fullmer, though.
Great post. That said I have a couple of observations to offer. Fulmer wasn't, from everything I've seen (admittedly less than yourself, Joe and cdogg, no doubt, so feel free to pull rank), a busy pressure fighter of the type I think would be best placed to take advantage of a Ray 1987's stamina issues, or of the type Hagler channeled in his best rounds. He was much more of a slugger (I don't mean that pejoratively, at all) in the way he came forward, looking for openings and launching big, impactful attacks more sporadically. A) I think Leonard is slicker than Robinson, who's style is mischaracterized IMO because of the grace with which he moved, so I think Fulmer would land less B) the very nature of that style means a lowish pace for Leonard who's extemely adept at creating his own breaks beyond the natural lulls in Fulmer's pressure. I think Leonard might win this with surprising ease. Lamotta would be a tougher fight for him I think.
To me, Leonard wins whether it's 12 or 15 rounds. I see him using his hand and foot speed to build up a good lead, and then doing what he needs to steal rounds and keep the relentless Fullmer off him in the later rounds. The 15 round distance DOES increase Fullmer's chances, but I still see him falling short against Leonard.
I see Fulmer grinding out a decision, certainly over 15 rounds. The only 160lb Leonard version we have to go on is the one who fought Hagler..and he was still very fast and mobile, but somewhat of a spurt fighter. A prime Fulmer was relentless and Leonard didn't have the one-punch power that Robinson used in order to win that second fight.
Hut makes a solid point that Fullmer wasn't a volume fighter the way Carmen Basilio was... but he had a sort of "style" all his own... he fought ugly (someone, I don't rememeber who, said of Fullmer "he seemed to always find the right style... no style at all") and looked "wrong" ... he had the power-punching technique of a slugger but he often did this at unorthodox angles or in positions where it wasn't expected or it shouldn't have worked... Fullmer was heavy handed, but not a one-hit guy by any means... but the best way I could describe him was that he had a kind of inescapable presence... if you look over his career, watch his fights, you never see him lose a round BIG... outside of the famous Robinson KO and the very last fight of his career when he had nothing left against Dick Tiger, how often do you ever see a round where Fullmer is dominated? He was just an exceptionally hard guy to fight, awkward and bullish, yet sometimes he'd "box" and it looked hideous, but it somehow worked really well (check him against Basilio and more importantly against a big middleweight with excellent skills, Florentino Fernandez) ... it doesnt look like Larry Holmes or Leonard or Whitaker, but its arguably just as effective, a kind of "ugly" boxing... my point is that Fullmer, somewhat like Emile Griffith, had an answer for everything... ugly, awkward answers but undeniably effective ones to me, the difference between 12 and 15 rounds here is a big one... Leonard, as previously stated, definitely had to pace himself... I think his immense level of speed, talent and wherewithal means that he can beat Fullmer to the punch and turn him just enough that he can win it in 12... but those extra three rounds require more energy against a fighter who simply doesnt give anyone the opportunity to conserve, you have to BEAT Fullmer, you can't coast against him
