Joe Calzaghe v Sergio Gabriel Martinez @ 168

So? The dude is STILL rated top ten P4P by most reliable sources. In his fights since the Calzaghe loss, Hopkins schooled the unbeaten, undisputed middleweight champion and last time out drew with, and in the eyes of many beat, the lineal light-heavyweight champion.

The vesrion of Hopkins that Calzaghe beat is better than Sergio. There is no doubt at all about that.

MTF

 

Martinez holds the title that Hopkins lost in the ring.

 

And? He didn't lose it to Martinez, did he?

MTF

 

Nah he lost to a big athletic guy who could out hustle him with a fast pace.....and had pretty much no other redeeming attributes as a world class fighter. Hmm...

 

So what you are saying is that Hopkins is an overrated fighter who can be beaten simply by big athletic sorts with no other world class attributes? Interesting...

MTF

 

Im saying by the time he was in his 40s he couldn't fight at a fast sustained pace and was vulnerable to anybody who could bring that at him. So if you wanna add 'Old' as a prefix to Hopkins in your post my answer is a qualified 'yes'.

 

Hopkins also fought him 2 weights above his best weight. And Pavlik isn't that good anyway.

Sergio kicked his ass despite being way smaller. Busted him up in fact.

Hopkins hasn't been better than Sergio since maybe the Tito fight. Complete crock of shit.

 

Shit, Sergio would probably win a clear decision over shitty Pascal if they fought tommorow at 168.

 

Well it depends how you rate SM. Martinez doesnt get that highlight reel ko against Williams and hes a non entity on this board. FACT. No one said shit about this guy until then.

You going to argue that Calz beat a prime Hop? Let's see: old and above his best weight. Yep JC sure did an impressive job against old fighters.

 

I think you'll find he was on my sig, I had him p4p No3 or 4 before that and that I picked him by KO.

 

Congrats. The guy was never spoken about on here until then.

Seriously im more interested in eubank and hop being listed as JCs best wins. Surely that says something about his level of opposition. Talking about people that aren't old, his best wins are Kessler and Lacy.

 

I like ya, Feebs, you are a good guy and well-informed but Calzaghe is your one major blind spot

most blatantly unremarkable fighter I have ever heard anyone call "great"

 

:bears: ... his comp was a joke and he often looked like a joke against them

my dream match would be Calzaghe versus Bob Foster... fucking brutal concussion inside of a round

 

Did Eubank also say that calzaghe 'slaps' and has no power? He found out he could punch. I know Lacy said this...

 

He can punch fine when he sits down on his shots. Which is about one punch in every 8.

 

I'll make this explicitly clear - I know Calzaghe was a very good, effective fighter. Formidable set of physical gifts in terms of his fitness, chin and speed and had developed an unorthodox style to exploit them, blahdy da.

I just really don't like him & think he's now overrated. I think Jones & Hopkins both beat him in their primes.

 

Jones does for sure, Hopkins doesn't for sure

 

It's a closer fight. Not because Jones was better than Hopkins, just because Calzaghe is an awkward style match up for Hopkins. But B-Hop of say 1999 gets the job done, I'd be very confident of that.

 

I'd be very confident of taking your money

 

What absolute bollocks.

MTF :atu:

 

I think Martinez is very good and his style is one I like a lot. Is he an ATG like most consider Hopkins? Not a chance...

I never once said Hopkins was prime when Calzaghe beat him. No-one sensible would suggest such a thing. But with Hopkins age has to be taken with a bigger pinch of salt than with almost ANY other fighter who ever fought. The man is still top ten p4p at, what, 46? :notallthere: The guy is an absolute FREAK of nature. Past his best weight? What, like Calzaghe wasn't? Old? Calzaghe retired a fight later.

Let's have this right: no-one has performed better against Hopkins than Calzaghe did in the last TEN years. Not Wright, nor Tarver, nor Tito, nor Oscar, nor Pavlik, nor Pascal: no-one. The only guy who comes close is Taylor and many believe Taylor should have lost both of those fights.

Oh, and lest we forget (and for the trillionth time), the reason why the fight didn't happen five years earlier was because HOPKINS pulled out of an agreement which Calzaghe had made. He agreed to come to the US and fight Bernard and Bernard pulled out. Yet he gets a complete pass for this round here... :notallthere:

MTF

 

I hate Calzaghe. Have done for years. Up until about 2005 I wished him brutally KTFO in every single fight he had. I was in the Newcastle Arena when he fought that Pudwill BUM and was disgusted enough to boo the arrogant bastard all the way back to his dressing room.

But the Kessler and Lacy fights convinced me of his ability. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but at the time of both fights Calzaghe was not favoured, yet he won both easily. He did better against Hopkins (an ATG), and got a deserved W, than anyone else has managed in the last decade. In his biggest fights Calzaghe always performed to his best- it was against the numerous crap opponents he 'struggled' (and struggled is relative here because he never came close to losing a fight).

The guy had a crazy workrate, an excellent chin, excellent recuperate powers, a tremendous adaptability, world class boxing smarts, for a guy who 'slapped' he KD-ed, KO-ed and busted up dozens of fighters and he never really looked like losing (he only even came close twice) in near fifty fights.

MTF

 

fixed.

 

I think the fact he wasn't favored against Lacy has more to do with how little anyone thought of Calz and a hell of a lot less to do with anyone thinking Lacy was particularly good

before Lacy there is literally a resume of jaw-dropping mediocrity

 

Ive accounted for this about 7 times in this very thread..... styles make something...can't remember what

 

Shot Roy Jones beat the shit out of Lacy. Lacy fucking sucked

 

to put it mildly

 

Lacy - what garbage. Sergio would have annihilated a prime Lacy.

 

Styles only make fights if the fighters are of comparable ability mate. A bloke who is a stylistic nightmare for another bloke wont do shit if he is completely mediocre and the other bloke is world class. Styles don't matter then.

Calzaghe's style was only effective against Hopkins because they are comparable, class-wise.

MTF

 

Calzaghe's resume to that point wasn't a lot worse, if at all, than Hopkins' middleweight reign. Both were mind-numbingly average.

MTF