Just to be clear... We're talking about Jnr. Considering that Jnr was about the same size, naturally, as Roberto Duran...but more elusive, taller and rangier (overall, equivalent in talent and skill)....it's reasonable to presume that Hagler has a difficult fight.
no it isnt Duran won a title at Middleweight, he beat a greater fighter than Mayweather at welterweight it is not reasonable using that logic, it is reasonable to assume that Thomas Hearns would make a fine heavyweight since he is certainly tall enough and had superb skills you cant make an assumption like that based off of a fighter who's very best showing at a weight ANYWHERE NEAR this weight is a yawn-inducing decision over an old Oscar De La Hoya who even in his prime wasn't anywhere near as good or dangerous as Marvin Hagler Mayweather is a terrific fighter, but this is fucking ridiculous
Mayweather is an all time great talent...not just a terrific fighter. Secondly...if Floyd had proven himself chinny, you would have a point. But he hasn't. Thirdly, if Floyd was easy to hit you'd have a point, but he isn't. Fourthly if Floyd had a stamina problem you'd have a point. But he doesn't. Fiftly, if Floyd was the type to be drawn into a brawl with a stronger fighter you'd have a point. But he isn't. So please tell me HOW THE HELL (using boxing logic) Hagler just walks all over Floyd with ease?
no no no the burden of proof is on the guy who thinks that a fighter who has never fought at 160 and has never faced a guy over 140 pounds who is anywhere NEAR THIS CLASS of fighter is somehow going to stand a chance in hell against him I dont have to prove that Floyd CAN'T do something he has NEVER EVER DONE It does not work that way you have to prove that he CAN do something that again, we must stress, he's never come within a million miles of doing Pernell Whitaker fought a brilliant fight at 154 against a junior middleweight who was better and fresher than the Oscar De La Hoya that Floyd beat and he beat the guy more impressively than Mayweather beat Hoya.... guess what? Pernell Whitaker gets bullied around the ring and hammered by Marvin Hagler so does Floyd
He fought and beat Sugar Ray Leonard, a fighter easily twice as good as the best fighter Floyd has ever beaten and about 5 times as good as the best Welterweight Floyd has ever beaten... he had absolutely annihlated Davey Moore, who if nothing else was a very strong and hard-hitting 154 pounder... Hagler weighed 157 for his fight with Duran.... Duran was 4 pounds heavier in the Hagler fight than in the Moore fight... the quality of the opposition from 147 up in Duran's case is indisputably superior to the class of 147 pounders Floyd has faced.... the difference is simply vast you can't simply say "Floyd and Duran were both essentially lightweights, so its the same thing" its not the same thing at all... Pernell Whitaker was a lightweight too, in my opinion a better one than both Roberto and Floyd (and he was a better welterweight than Floyd, too), but I am quite confident he would be beaten up by Hagler
I hear you Cdogg, believe me. You've articulated your points very well and made good points. Having said that... Pernell Whitaker is a smaller man than Floyd and Duran. He's small. If Floyd was that small I'd agree with you. But Floyd, although not a large Welterweight, is a respectable height at 5'8" with a good reach. Shit...although Mosley is taller and rangier, Floyd looked bigger in the ring that night. And stronger. I just don't see...now that I think about it, Hagler walking him down easily and knocking him out in one-sided fashion like you're implying.
He can correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't think he's implying it would be a total cakewalk in the sense that Hagler could just beat up Mayweather by walking in a forward motion. Marvelous wasn't just a bigger guy than Floyd, but extremely skilled for pressure type fighter. He wasn't Micky Ward with a goatee and a southpaw stance. He's everything that Castillo was but much better at absolutely everything. Also he was bigger. Sure Floyd can make Hagler miss, but that's all he could do.
Exactly I just don't see Floyd having even a chance in hell of winning or even making it particularly close... he's a fabulous boxer and he can be competetive for a while, but he's lucky to win a round or two... Im not saying its Dick Tiger/Ruben Carter, but its not a fight that Floyd could ever hope to win
Floyd would give Hagler HELL. They'd look the same height in that ring and Floyd would be faster of foot and hand and his good chin can take Hagler's overrated power.
I like how people are quick to point out the Castillo fight, a fight Floyd won. But somehow losing to a blown up WW on a THREE YEAR layoff is not mentioned. A WW who, is the best boxer Marvin Hagler faced by a good deal(Hearns punched with him). He barely beat a laughably undersized Duran, who stylistically should've been a cakewalk for him. Floyd is on another planet then most of the guys Marvin beat. This gung ho, "Floyd has no chance" nonsense is only surpassed in stupidity by "Floyd gets stopped". Especially considering this is MM, where a fighter who has never been so much as knocked down is NEVER getting stopped, and you'd be an idiot to even suggest it, even if its the worst style match up for him ever. That is, unless the forum has a laughable and pathetic bias against you, then you get stopped anytime you face any top 20 ATG fighter with power.
That's what people seem to be missing in this thread. Who gives a shit if Shane weighed 160+ on fight night? It's MARVIN FUCKING HAGLER, not Shane Mosley or Oscar De La Hoya. I don't see any way Floyd gets stopped, but I'm hard pressed to see him winning.
I don't see him winning winning either. I just want people to stop bringing in the fact he'd be fighting a 'middleweight' as if that means a guy Jermain Taylor's size & as if that's the final word in the match up. He's fought & comfortably beat 158lb men before. Oscar was 164lb and even as old & slow on the trigger as he was, he wasn't 'SHITTY'. Hagler wins because he's better at that size just like he was against Duran, but there isn't some yawning size chasm here and this isn't a ridiculous mismatch.
I'd rank Duran as a top five all-time fighter. And no, they are not equal in terms of talent and skill...Duran shits on Floyd.
Was Floyd Mayweather fought some Welters that came in nearing or at 160...Bumdomir and Mosley. Was any VERSION of Mosley as good as Hagler? NO.... Mayweather also fought a 160's lbs Oscar De La Hoya......and the best he could do is a 8-4 type of victory....good but not dominating... Mayweather will get nothing but brutalize by Hagler... Now if Mayweather was ever to fight 154-160 pounder somewhat in their prime like a Sergio Martinez(who i don't think is much of)...but who is the man at the moment..and beat him convincingly then I could measure Mayweather chances vs. Hagler better....but HE HAS NEVER faced anyone even remotely as big,strong,tough and in their prime as Hagler... and Mayweather is not going to beat Hagler running/moving away from him..and throwing 40 punches a round.
You hate Floyd. So I wouldn't expect any objectivity from you here. In fact, as knowledgeable about the game as you are...you are the least objective poster on the site. Duran has a power edge on Floyd and that is it. Floyd has more than one edge on Duran.
No that isn't 'it'. This isn't Randal Bailey in discussion, Duran could do a whole shit heap of things better than Floyd.
Well apart from catching bullets with his teeth, what else does Duran do better than Floyd? Floyd is faster of foot, of hand (slightly), more elusive (even though Duran had good D), as tough (I can't imagine Hearns knocking out Floyd in 2 rounds to be honest with ya), at least as good ring generalship, as physically strong, edge in height and reach. Your move Hut Hut...
and with all of these gifts bestowed upon Floyd, Duran somehow managed to beat a taller, equally athletic, long reached and more aggressive Sugar Ray Leonard. The problem isn't that I hate Floyd, the problem lies with uber fans such as yourself saddled with the inability to assess Floyd's weaknesses in comparison to greater fighters who lost fights along the way. It's kinda like picking Ali in every mythical matchup. Sure it's difficult to see the young Ali lose simply because we never saw it. It's just foolishness on the part of FloydIdiots.
Please name Floyd's "weaknesses". Enlighten me. Leonard and Floyd had different styles...both arrogant fast slick African American fighters and that's where the comparison ends. Floyd's style reduces the output of his opponents, Leonard's doesn't.
Come forward, throw at a high volume without sacrificing defence, fight inside, find offensive angles & wage an offensive fight generally. Just like Floyd does a number of things better than Duran and saying 'all Floyd has over Duran is hand speed, that's the only edge' would be belittling of Floyd's skill set & a very shallow analysis of their respective styles and strengths.:Thumbs:
Rebuke accepted. Although Floyd has shown that he can fight inside (Hatton, Ndou) and wage an offensive fight (Mosley/Judah) when he wants too.
1. Pressure. We saw him have trouble with Castillo's pressure and strength. 2. Jab. We saw him give up rounds to Oscar when Oscar stayed on his jab. Oscar abandoned his jab which gave Floyd room to potshot him. Watch that fight again...there were times Oscar's jab not only pushed Floyd back but knocked him off his pivot. 3. Southpaws. That shoulder roll style plays into the southpaw style...he's leaning into the straight left hand. We saw him run into one in the Judah fight. saw him buzzed by Corley 4. Activity. Floyd is basically a potshot artist at this point. Eventually we'll see him get outworked by someone...happens to everyone who fights in that style or similar styles where potshots and defense are at the forefront. Now to tie this into the theme of the thread...Hagler who I'd say most would consider more consistent with his jab, a southpaw, applied smart pressure and during his prime years was an accurate powerful puncher... Can't for the life of me figure out what Floyd would do with any of that save for either fight a Junior Witter type fight or get completely run over. Hagler's better in all the areas mentioned above in one package...not to mention...Floyd's not hurting Hagler thus Marvin has no respect for anything Floyd throws at him. Lastly, any single attribute Floyd might have shown against any fighter...say Hatton's pressure, Judah's southpaw stance, oscar's jab...as said earlier...Hagler bests the sum of those parts in one fighter.
Lesnevich. Any white bum with a remotely Ashkenazi name will get the Bert Sugar Vote of Approval.:Thumbs::laughing:
