Foreman v Moorer - Dive or Not?

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I have always considered Moorer to have taken a dive here. Repeated viewings of the fight over the years have not swayed that opinion.

I'm interested to see where my Fightbeat brethren stand on this.

So: was it a dive?

 

only way taking a fall wouldve been worth it to moorer financially is if he is getting a percentage of all grill sales

 

I know Foreman was heavy-handed....but that right hand never look like much....but a DIVE?..I don't know..If Moorer was in a fixed he would also want an immediate rematch..to return the favor..

 

Foreman claims he kept hitting Moorer over and over until Moorer just couldn't take it anymore. Foreman is often full of it, but it is true that he hit Moorer with some good heavy shots all night. Despite being behind on the cards, Foreman wasn't totally being shut out in terms of his offense. He was landing heavy blows all night. Maybe he's right and it just added up.

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On another note, Lampley said that Moorer told him that he was already out on his feet from the first 1-2.

 

Definitely no dive........ Moorer simply never was a true heavyweight, didn't have the power or chin at heavyweight. That right hand from George was textbook straight right on the button
M

 

No dive. Just a heavy hand landing repeatedly on a bad chin.

 

Don't get hung up on the terminology. I say dive another would say fixed. That is a sloppy arm punch thrown by someone completely gassed. Moorer fell like he'd been struck by lightning.

Just looks way too innocuous a hit for that reaction to me.

 

Out from the first one-two? The one just before the KO? That barely landed and Moorer was immediately up on his toes with his hands up. He did not look out of it at all. :dunno:

 

Tell me this --- how would you explain Arum negotiating Moorer's dive? You think Arum could justify the lost earnings & career drop Moorer would endure by giving up his title, his undefeated record, & with it, a huge chunk of his marketability? Could Arum come up with a sum sufficient to compensate Moorer for what he would've made in future HW title bouts?

Hugely unlikely, almost needless to say. No. This was a legitimate, bonafied miracle. You wanna see a dive with all the marbles on the line? Look no further than Tyson-Spinks.

Or could it just be that Moorer had a relatively weak beard, & it met with one of the most breath-taking punchers in ring history?

 

Quite. This is where the conspiracy falls harder than Moorer did.

 

Sorry Genius, no way.

 

That was a heavy 1-2, right to the point of the chin. Tiredness played its part too. I wasn't the most concussive KO but I really don't think it was a dive.

 

It was such a glorious era for HW boxing.

 

Yup. One of the biggest myths in the sport (right alongside "Oscar was up 8 rounds to 0 before...") was that Foreman was getting shut out all night and that the final right hand was the only punch worth a damn that he landed.

Moorer ate a lot of flush shots prior to that final punch. That, compounded by his generally shaky chin, was how history was made.

Ramonza's post in this thread sums up my thoughts on claims of a dive existing in this era. There are a few fights in which I seriously question the opponent's integrity and intention to actually fight that night, but not due to the belief that he went down for the sake of someone handing him a briefcase full of money afterward.

 

clean KO....Moorer was chinny

 

Foreman also revealed after the fight that since the three-KD rule was not in effect he had to change his strategy and wait for the perfect chance to land a KO punch

 

Even the old slow foreman had a hell of a 1-2. How Moorer couldn't avoid it is a mystery to me. George threw that same 1-2 like 50 times in the round and it finally caught him. Heavy hands met a fragile chin. Foreman was always kind of an arm puncher, he didn't need to load up to hurt guys, his hands were just that heavy.

 

"Bullshit don't fake it, you got LUCKY"...

 

Moorer got 14 stitches from that one clubbing right. He thought George was spent, but Foreman was one of those fights who didn't depend on speed for power in his right hand. It moved you no matter how slow it was coming in, and it wasn't quite crawling even there.

Moorer had a history of disregarding trainers and doing stupid shit. He also didn't have a great chin. Combine all that with the fact that he stayed in range against one of the heaviest punchers in history. I think some people don't realize what it is really like to get hit that hard.

Chuvalo called it best: getting hit by Frazier was like getting hit 100km/h by a Pontiac, but getting hit by Foreman was like getting hit 60km/h by a Mack truck. And Foreman, for all his sloppy technique and winging punches, was one of the heaviest punchers of all-time in the heavyweight division. If you had a less-than-great chin and stayed in front of him (as Moorer did instead of listening to Teddy Atlas and circling to his right), he'd catch you sooner or later.

 

My guess is all the heavy shots before it had Moorer totally screwed already. The last punch just took the last little bit of will out of him.

 

The only dive was the unconscious back first fall to the canvas.

 

Not true. Moorer had his hands up but he immediately did a little odd bounce to his left.

When I watched it live I thought the first right hand hurt Moorer. Watching it again now, nothing changed.

These slow, plodding, thumping punches were no different in appearance than the punches George hurt a multitude of guys with before.

Moorer's chin was just THAT bad. Seriously, the dude had the worst chin of anyone ever claiming even a piece of the HW Title including Bruce Seldon in my opinion.

 

Bruce actually had a decent chin, he just decided to hell with it vs. Tyson and Bowe.

It was Seldon's heart, confidence, and fighting spirit that could be weak.

Patterson's chin was weak, IMO.

 

no way it's a dive

it ruined Moore..

he just got knocked the F out

 

:laughing:

 

If there is one thing Foreman never lost, it was his effortless, crushing power

 

Thanks guys. I would like to address one thing though.

Some appear to be making the judgement based on not understanding the motive behind losing this fight on purpose. I submit that that thinking is flawed.

I'm mainly concerned with the shot itself. It's clearly a slow, telegraphed arm punch. Had Moorer stumbled and fell I would attribute it to accumulation but he dropped like Rahman did against LL.

I remain unconvinced on this point. I believe it is suspicious at best.

 

this is one of my favorite moments in boxing history


I have a friend who knows moore and talks about it all the time..

Moore was KTFO

simply.. Moore was a LHW and Foreman, even old and slow had a RIDICULOUS punch

what's amazing to me is George has such power with sloppy looking shots

although.. he has a way of making it LOOK more sloppy than it is

soem of the shots look just like sloppy arm punches but watch him closely.. sometimes George puts his feet/hips/trunk into them but he does it in a suddle way

 

Yep, George had very subtle leverage and torque in his shots. I remember watching him hit a heavy bag and being amazed at the impact with what looked like little effort.

 

Don't you think yuo should be taking into account whether it was worth it to Moorer to take a dive or not!?