Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Kid Gavilan @ 147

Who wins?

 

Floyd wide decision.

 

Gasp!! Really?? The shocker of the day.

 

Floyd by wide decision.

 

TLC's opinion is so important that no only does not he never need to justify it at all, but you often need to hear it twice.

 

Floyd by wide decision by virtue of being a much more skilled boxer.

The difference in technique is tremendous. It's actually inexplicable how many punches Gavilan landed on some fighters, fully winded up haymakers with absolute zero effect. His awful KO percentage I think attests more to simply ridiculously poor
technique...the dude sits down on his punches unlike other "featherfists", he just doesn't know how to punch. He threw in weird motions, and telegraphed badly, which made him a terrible finisher, because the other dude would simply move his head and tuck his chin and take Gavilan's rather marginal power shots. Accuracy is huge here as well. Gavilan's looping shots struggled to find the marks against unathletic workman-type fighters. Against Floyd, he'd be lucky to land 10% of hs shots. Floyd would snipe him all day with counterpunches.

Gavilan's usual edge in fitness and speed compared to his contemporaries are completely negated here.

At best he steals 4 rounds on work rate alone, as he really could set quite a pace.

 

Gavilan would easily, easily EASILY be the most skilled fighter Floyd has ever seen.

 

The most well-conditioned, maybe.

Not even close to the most skilled. That doesn't even make sense.

 

Doesn't make sense? Sense....

Who has he faced that's as skilled as Kid Gavilan? Old Oscar surely comes closest, but Gavilan would have beaten even a prime De la Hoya. I suggest you watch some footage of prime Gavilan again and really pay attention to how he controls distance, angles, parries, smothers & fades from shots, counter punches unpredictably without telegraphing an inch etc. Actually watch it and watch what punches land and don't & why, rather than making decisions before you press play.

There isn't a (legal)skill in Floyd's arsenal he invented. He's so much better than his contemporaries because he (much like Hopkins) know more than everyone else. Things they were taught by trainers with lineages back to when most these moves were conceived that fewer & fewer fighters today are privy to being taught.

 

It is you who needs to watch footage. He's WIDE as hell, LOOPING, and HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY inaccurate, like...I mean missing and being unable to solidly hit a guy on queer street standing in front of him barely moving his head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPJLHLt5EM

This is a footage of the very few stoppages he had. Inept finisher at best, if his record doesn't speak for it, the footage certainly does.

Oscar would definitely beat him. I can't see anyway he loses that fight. It isn't as if Kid is some Ray Robinson-esque figure where he was just so incredibly ahead of everyone else that its hard to imagine him losing...

He lost plenty of fights, plenty even in his prime.

Gavilan essentially had the benefit of a tremendous athleticism gap between him and the guy he was facing. That and he had a tremendous pace and conditioning level.

Other than that, he's not that skilled. In fact, you are talking about his counterpunching, but he's so wide and looping in every fight of him on YouTube, he's the one getting cracked with hard counters. Basilo was embarrassing him at one point.

Also, don't even start with that illegal shell defense B.S.

 

Your link doesn't work.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPJLHLt5EM

This doesn't work for you?

 

Another disdain I have for most 40s fighters it the ridiculous amount of time spent clinching in the goddamn fights.

Would be interesting to see how these guys would be conditioned to fight without clinching every 5 seconds.

 

If you put a compilation of footage together from Salvador Sanchez, Jose Napoles, Shane Mosley and a dozen others exclusively going for KOs they'd look like unskilled wide swingers too. Unless you see the context of the fight and their style, it's very misleading.

 

Yes, thank you.

 

Floyd's pretty much a complete sniper in these situations. Which is where I'm drawing a huge comparison between the two.

Floyd is just a much more accurate puncher by a wide margin.

 

Compared to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78-LjNI9B8U

 

A judgement you make on about 3 whole minutes of footage which are highly misrepresentative of Gavilan's style and ability.

Even if we agree that Floyd's a more composed finisher - what exactly's the relevance in a fight that could be fought 100 times and never see a stoppage win for either?

 

Pigs, singing lessons, liking it and so on. I open this one to the floor, again.

 

I've seen some of his fights as well. Basillo, Jones, and some random guy he gets into a huge slugfest with.

Opinion isn't changed. Though I fail to see his counterpunching prowess. As I said, especially in the Basillo fight, he's the one mostly being counterpunched. Even floored at one point.

He had a solid jab, but not much else that helps him in this fight.

 

Cool. Well you know you're own mid, fair enough.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le0opxoAAZ0

Another clip from an actual fight.

I don't think he lands a single power punch in the whole video. Too telegraphed.
He can stick a jab in the dude's face, but his renowned flurries were simply just fast, faster than what they were used to at least.....not accurate.

The wind up on his hooks is simply way too much to hit a defensive MASTER like Floyd.


Boxing has evolved tremendously from the black and white era. And even if it hasn't. Floyd is far beyond even his contemporaries.

I don't get how the best fighter of this generation can't beat maybe the 10th best of the 40s.
It's like everyone started sucking, which I guess would be a reasonable thinking if you read posts in GD, where lineal titlists are bums and whatnot.

People act like it hasn't, but it really has. If Ramonza is watching, my question is still unanswered.

What exact traits makes Sandy Saddler and Teddy Yarosz world class? What world class skills do they have?

Toughness doesn't count.

 

I always thought this would just be a terrible match for Mayweather. One of the worst at Welter.

 

Floyd wide decision

 

Gavilan

I think Floyd is a great fighter, but he hasn't done shit to justify being called a great welterweight

Despite TLC's complete inability to understand anything he is watching, Gavilan WAS a very great fighter equipped with a tungsten chin, a tremendous amount of variety (he could box from the outside, he could slug with anyone because of his skill and his toughness, though he was basically an accumulation puncher) he was excellent defensively and his opposition was top class... Mayweather would compete, because he's a great talent, highly skilled but at the end of the day he has nothing to discourage Gavilan with and he has to contend with Gavilan's own tremendous skill set

let me know when Floyd beats even a really GOOD welterweight fighter impressively and I'll reconsider his chances against Kid Gavilan

 

Floyd beat bums. Even the lineal champions(he's beaten two)....bums.

If only they were in black and white their skills and resumes could've been greatly exaggerated.

 

Cherry picking & side stepped challenges get remembered, fortunately. The other famous Floyd from boxing history, for instance.

 

Everyone seems to be forgetting that most of the JLWs and LWs Floyd beat were already as big or bigger than Gavilan.

I'd take Floyd, 8-4ish type decision, and that says more about how good Floyd is than how good Gavilan is not.

 

You really haven't got a clue have you?

You know there is a big difference between technique and skill?

Skill is knowing what to do and when to do it, outthinking your opponent, strategy, adaptability amongst other things.

Punching technique has fuck all to do with it.

For example, Calzaghe's slappy punching technique was laughed at for years, but you'd have to be a retard not to recognise him as a highly skilled, and very adaptable fighter.

 

That's quite an understatement. (Or a rhetorical question with quite understated implications, before TLC replies with some snot drip, wank splash correction)