Vitali v Lewis. Iyo without the cut.....

Please.

 

Lewis and Vitali met on even terms and Lewis legitimately won the fight. I have never really understood why people have such difficulty in accepting this. There was nothing shady or questionable about the fight. It ended with a clear winner. Vitali's chin stood up to the power of Lennox Lewis but his face couldn't.

 

It isn't complicated. It's not like Lewis was 28 years old and retired after a tough fight. After a long career and a very tough fight, he was done. Credit where it's due.

 

Lewis beat him fair and square the first time. He then retired having beaten Vitali. There is no asterisk.

 

Cuts don't count. :nono:

 

People have a problem with a champion retiring after a win. They have come to expect guys to fight until they get beaten up. I have alway held Lennox in high regard for knowing when to get out. Good for him. He had nothing left to prove.

 

Well, someone needs to let Jerry Quarry know. This will change his resume completely.

 

Yep.

I always draw comparisons to Roy Jones on this one. Can you imagine, if after a tough win over Tarver, where he was finally able to show his ability to dig down and win one, Roy called it quits?

 

Cuts are like bad decisions. Yes, they give you a legit win but they don't prove your superiority the way knockouts do. Everybody without an agenda knows that

 

Comparing cuts from punches to bad decisions is pretty foolish.

 

If Lewis was 10 years younger, I would agree with your point. But he was at the end of his career and didn't have it in him to put his body through a full, rigorous training camp.

I was honestly never a fan of his, but have grown to appreciate his career and also respect the fact that he retired when he did. The only thing I wish was that he did it about six months sooner, rather than drag it on for about eight months before finally calling it a day.

Honestly, the only reason he was scheduled to fight that night to begin with (Against Kirk Johnson) was because there was some absurd plan in place to stage a Tyson rematch. Tyson was actually scheduled to appear in the co-feature, before pulling a disappearing act and dropping out of the card sans explanation.

So for all of that, he could have just called it quits after the Tyson fight in '02 and his career would've been just fine. Instead, he agreed to a last minute defense against his #1 contender, survived it and stepped away.

 

No more foolish than comparing cuts to KOs

 

Nope. Are you new, Ugo?

 

No. Do you hate East Europeans, Joe?

 

Nope. Please, please, please stop trying to be funny.

 

Please start trying to discuss properly

 

Jake, you're the best.

 

Wait, was it me that started comparing legitimate cuts victories to bad decisions?

 

No, it was you who understood it wrong on purpose.

The similarity is that even though both count as legitimate victories, they do not prove that the fighter who gets the win would probably be able to do it again and thus it does not prove as much as a KO win. In debatable decision the result of a rematch could be different with different judges, while cuts decide fights so rarely that you can't really base your pick on them. As I already stated, I would pick Hagler over Hearns every time out even though it was a 50:50 chance that the cut Hagler received would have ended the bout

 

You said bad decisions. Not debatable decisions. I can dig with the idea that a cuts win is like winning a decision that could have gone either way. But to compare a cuts win to a bad decision, like you did, well, I just can't get behind that.

A cuts win is earned. You punched your man in the face, because of that he got cut, and because of that he can't continue. Klitschko's cut was historically bad.

A bad decision isn't earned. It's handed to you. 'nah mean?

 

Without the cut, Vitali wins.

Prime Lennox vs Vitali...Lennox wins, cut or not.

 

The CUT is what gave Lewis the second wind. THE CUT..is what caused Vitali to beging to wilt.

Without the cut, different fight.

 

The cut also happened.

 

Lewis was offered 22 million USD plus upside for the rematch. He decided instead to turn it in and call it a career. I don't fault him for that, but to say that he walked away with no stones left unturned it B.S. He walked away when he was smart enough to realize that there was a change of guard occurring and that if he continued, it would not end well for him.

To say that cuts ending a fight that was even (actually 4-2 in favor of Klit) at the time of the stoppage is along the same lines of a definitive KO or even a points victory is absurd. Klit had fight left in him. All parties involved including Klit, HBO, and the fans wanted the RE. Everyone except for Lennox.

You Lennox fans should ask yourself this: If Vitali was suddenly out of the picture after that first Lennox-Klit fight; do you think Lennox would've continued and picked up a few more paychecks? Instead, with Vitali still in the picture and clamoring for a rematch, Lennox had only two choices, fight him again or retire. He couldn't fight anyone else because then it would be painfully obvious that he wanted no part of another fight with Vitali.

 

:wack: Is it that difficult to understand the thread topic?

 

Lewis won everything possible in his career and earned enough money for the rest of his life so he had no reason to continue. Also, even defeating Vitali again wouldn't have raised his status anymore so there was no reason to it either

 

This simply is not true. Defeating Vitali in a rematch, especially given the success that Vitali has gone on to have, would most definitely had raised his all-time status.

If he didn't care about earning more money he wouldn't have put us through his half-hearted post-fight-career HBO commentating gig.

 

Not everyone likes to sit around and do nothing. :dunno:

LL's legacy was secure. He didn't need a win over Vitali. He already had one. This isn't complicated.

 

True, but at that time nobody thought Vitali would achieve this much. And had Lewis blasted him out in a rematch, he probably wouldn't have

I really don't think he made big money from that, not big enough to matter after the tens of millions he had already earned. I think he wanted to be on TV for the same reason many others want to.

 

He basically sat around and did nothing while commentating. Every once in a while he would pipe in with a "Definitely", but that's about it.

Are seriously saying that a definitive win by KO or clear cut points would not have enhanced his legacy? You're happy with the win in a fight that was stopped on cuts in which Vitali was ahead on the scorecards?

I know that Lennox is your favorite fighter and that it's pointless to argue this with you, but if the tables were turned, if my favorite fighter went out like that, I think I'd be left wanting. In the very least, I would admit that it would be legacy enhancing to get a definitive win over the guy.